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On 4/16/2022 at 8:39 AM, Haleth said:

I guarantee we will find out that the niece daughter is Lennox's daughter.  No doubt as a young soldier he pulled a Willowby by toying with Colbourne's sister’s wife’s affections and left her pregnant (unknowingly).  This is the source of the rancor between them.

Ok, same plot. Different kid. Still cliche.

I almost turned it off because of how disgusted I am with the Esther storyline. Thank goodness this wraps up next week. 

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As to the dancing, people of that class learned the dance patterns while growing up.  Dance lessons, dance classes, it was part of their education because so many social functions were dances, and this was a primary way to find a mate.

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I'm sorry for the confusion on Peacock about seeing episodes early. I do have Passport pbs too but I just signed up with email / apps so actually I'm not sure why I can access them! 🤔

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2 hours ago, SusanwatchingTV said:

ARGGGG!!  I just lost patience and signed up for the free trial of PBS Passport on Amazon Prime so I could watch the last episode.  All was going so well... working out exactly as I both expected and wanted and then....

They got me!  Yup. I'm gonna have to watch Season 3.  lol

I'm still mostly happy. I know it'll work out as it should. It better. haha

Same!  Hopefully certain actors are signed on for Season 3!  

As far as Episode 5...  I was so annoyed with Edward.  What a cliched mustache-twirling villain (so much so that I actually cracked up laughing at him in the last episode, lol).  I ended the episode hoping that Clara would go through with the marriage and then spill the beans on him and come out smelling like a rose with George legitimized.  

So sad for Leo, hopefully Colborne realizes that he does, indeed, love her as a real father, before she tragically dies (which would be entirely the TV Regency Romance trope we should expect from this show, lol).  

And, speaking of TV Regency Romance tropes...  My spidey sense was tingling over Lockhart's sudden wooing of Georgiana.  Too easy to see it won't end happily for her.  

Tom is the most worthless of the Parkers.  Thank God for sensible Mary.  And for Arthur dressing him down.  I'm only mad that the show didn't give us that scene in its full, unadulterated glory that we deserved for having sat through 4 episodes of Tom being duped by Lennox.

Can't wait to fully discuss the final episode of this season next week!

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On 4/17/2022 at 10:23 PM, magdalene said:

I have to say Esther's desolation and pain is ruining this whole show for me. Since they couldn't get the Babbington actor back and they didn't recast this may end in Esthers suicide.

Not what I would call a satisfying romantic viewing experience. Do I really want to watch another season of this?

Esther's story has totally ruined this show for me.  They ruined her life and love - the main thing I loved about the first season - and I am NOT into it.  I had to ff through her scenes because it's so awful and not at all what I want to watch.   And that made me lose interest in the rest of the story lines, even though I usually LOVE a good ballroom scene!  Tom is a perpetual dumbass, Lady Denham is a perpetual hardass, and Lennox is a cruel and crooked ass. 

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On 4/11/2022 at 12:17 AM, magdalene said:

I hate this Edward gas-lighting Esther plot. I hate that we can't have Babington back.

I thought we would be stuck with Alison mooning over Carter for the entire season, so I am pleasantly surprised she saw his true colors already. Will the silly girl now catch an illness after almost drowning and almost die?

I am absolutely loving it! It is keeping me interested. (I never really cared that much about Esther as others seem to do) 

I am hoping it is Clara who turns the tables on Edward's nefarious plans to make it look like Esther is going mad. She looks as if she is going along with it for now  - but I don't know? Some of her shocked looks as she is watching and figuring out what Edward is doing are quite hilarious!

Ok so Leo's real father is that soldier dude. (I can't remember his name -- Lennox?) He did come across as controlling and maybe abusive when he grabbed Charlotte. 

I like Georgianna and the artist. They are both so pretty/cute! Is the show setting them up to run off together? Hm? That can't end well.

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22 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

The doctor is a quack.  I don't think there is any hope from him.

Is he a quack though? His "shower" was not a bad invention, just intentionally used wrongly by what's her name so it got discredited. He knew that the "medicine" Esther was taking would harm if not kill her and though he had no cure to offer he gave her a placebo thinking it might help ease her stress and emotional suffering. Right now he is saying she is hysterical but he hasn't sent her to a madhouse and I hold out hope that he will figure out that she's taking something else that she should not be.

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He might eventually figure it out, as he should be familiar with the effects of laudanum, ffs.  But Clara already knows the truth, so if she doesn't say anything before it's too late, I am quitting this show.

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My personal opinion is there will be many happy endings at the end of  season 2 & a couple of things left 'up in the air' as an incentive for viewers to return for season 3. JMO. I do wish I cared more what happens w/Charlotte & Colbourne, but I just do not 'feel it' with that pairing. Happy for those that do.

Edited by 4merBachAddict
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After this episode, I'm not sure how there's another season. I mean, obviously Esther's plot is still midprocess and I think Miss Lambe's has a ways to go, too, but Charlotte is already on track with the widower, Charlotte's sister is with the rude guy, the family guy's debt secret has come out, the colonel is officially a villain, etc. I'm not sure how everything can keep going for another season without really dragging.

And I wish they'd just re-cast Lord Babington rather than have him entirely absent like this (not even to show up in season 3??). That said, I'm assuming the Esther-"hysteria" plot was a long time in the making, with a name like Babington. Sounds so similar to babbling, something I would associate with someone who's lost their sanity.

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21 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

After this episode, I'm not sure how there's another season.

If season 3 is as short as season 2, I'm sure they can fill it out properly.

Whatever happened to full length seasons???

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18 hours ago, HighQueenEB said:

Same!  Hopefully certain actors are signed on for Season 3!  

Don't get your hopes up!  If I understood right - and please somebody correct me if I got this wrong - they filmed season 2 and three together. So whatever happens in season 3 is already in the can as they say.  And since they couldn't get certain actors back, and they don't like doing recasts (how dumb is that??) I doubt I will be happy with the endings for all of the characters.

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1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Don't get your hopes up!  If I understood right - and please somebody correct me if I got this wrong - they filmed season 2 and three together. So whatever happens in season 3 is already in the can as they say.  And since they couldn't get certain actors back, and they don't like doing recasts (how dumb is that??) I doubt I will be happy with the endings for all of the characters.

You are correct - season 3 was completed months ago: once they got the go ahead, they just filmed straight thru! Everyone can be 1000% sure Theo James is not in it, nor is Leo Sutter (young Stringer). As to whether or not Mark Stanley (Lord Babington) will put in even a short appearence, I haven't heard. He is the only character - at this point - I'd be ok with a recast.... if just to complete the story line.

 

Edited by 4merBachAddict
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3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. Are you saying he might?

To be perfectly clear, I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING! I'm just talking about what I have read in many different places. And what I read was (paraphrasing): we would not see Mark Stanley in season 2. And we haven't. Season 3 wasn't mentioned. So who knows......... 

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Given the many, many commitments Mark Stanley seems to have (including the upcoming season of Happy Valley, which I'm really looking forward to), I'm trying not to get my hopes up for a Babington reappearance... but I can't help but wish he managed to squeeze an episode in! And the fact that season two didn't kill him off (which I had feared) keeps that hope alive... (though I suppose killing off Babington and Sidney would've been a bit much).

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8 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Given the many, many commitments Mark Stanley seems to have (including the upcoming season of Happy Valley, which I'm really looking forward to), I'm trying not to get my hopes up for a Babington reappearance... but I can't help but wish he managed to squeeze an episode in! And the fact that season two didn't kill him off (which I had feared) keeps that hope alive... (though I suppose killing off Babington and Sidney would've been a bit much).

Doubt they'd kill him off -so I'd be OK with a recast as a last resort.

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On 4/19/2022 at 6:55 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

 I'm trying not to get my hopes up for a Babington reappearance... but I can't help but wish he managed to squeeze an episode in! And the fact that season two didn't kill him off (which I had feared) keeps that hope alive... (though I suppose killing off Babington and Sidney would've been a bit much).

Couldn't we get just one scene in Season 3 maybe?

I've been wondering whether Esther might have suffered from cervical incompetence.  That would fit with her saying she lost the baby at 5+ months.  Easy fix just to stitch it up the next time--although maybe they didn't know about that then.  What isn't clear why having a middle trimester miscarriage would have made her deathly ill to the point where her doctor said don't try for another baby.  So maybe there's something else going on.

Another thing I don't understand is why Lennox proposed.  Makes sense he would pursue her--she's a beautiful, witty, and challenging woman.  Maybe he thought he could notch another conquest.  But to propose?  Are we supposed to think he's serious?  Sure he's competing with Colbourne and by the ball he knows Colbourne fancies her, but proposing is a pretty drastic step.  Unless he figures it'll be a temporary engagement, until the regiment skips town.  

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2 hours ago, bluestocking said:

Unless he figures it'll be a temporary engagement, until the regiment skips town. 

That would be my guess.  He just wants to have a triumph over Colbourne, and show he can take another woman away from him.

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Wow. Charlotte just gave up there in the end didn't she?

You know, I can't blame her for holding her ground against Colbourne bc he didn't really handle their parting very well, but to get engaged to farmer lad? Not so cool. She clearly doesn't like him that way. she's just straight up settling at this point and leading the poor lad on. Someone shake some sense into her.

I'm sure their engagement won't last, but...blah.

A lil redemption for Clara was nice. She did the right thing in the end by coming clean about Edward's plot. And ofc, like literally everyone predicted the moment we found out Clara was pregnant...she left lil George to Esther.

Are Esther and Lady Denham just going to tell people someone left a baby on the doorstep?

Georgiana's mom possibly being alive is cool. So Lockhart was a scam artist like many were hoping. I never wanted them together in the long term but I still think he was good for her in the journey of self-discovery sort of way. Oh well, won't miss that buffalo plaid looking coat of his. Poor Georgiana and Jolly Parker tho. He was a pretty solid friend even though it was all a ploy. :(

Georgiana and Jolly are the sweetest besties ever.

Allison and Fraser. A pretty quick turn around from Carter, but oh well. They look happy. Good for them I guess.

Bye bye Lennox. Not gonna miss ya.

Annoyed that Lady Denham is still keeping Edward around. He doesn't need to be fixed, he needs to be banished.

Season 2 overall thoughts:

The storyline surrounding Esther was frustrating but the actress gave it her all.

Didn't miss Sidney one bit. 

A part of me still thinks tom would have made a good villain.

Arthur, Georgiana and Esther were the mvps of the season so not much has changed from season 1 in that regard.

I actually liked Charlotte better this season. It was also good to see her hair up more. :P

Still kind of shaky overall. Lots of borrowed concepts that were at least fun to point out.

Season 3 hopes:

Jolly Parker better get his dang theatre next season.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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I am surprised that the rescue of Esther came so early in the episode.  Somehow I thought it would be more of a last minute deal.  Good for George but his Snidely Whiplash father will be making waves next season, I bet.

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Well, dang, when I said last week that I just wanted Fraser to be happy, I didn't expect a full on wedding this week!  That was an unexpectedly lovely surprise.  I wasn't sure how cliffhanger-y they were going to leave everybody.  That's two seasons in a row my favorite couple gets a wedding at the end and poor Charlotte is miserable (we all know Ralph isn't a keeper).  I may not care all that much about Colbourne but I do hope Charlotte gets her happy ending by the end of S3.  Meanwhile, I'm loving how sweet Alison and Fraser were; the Parkers & co all listening at the door was adorable.  I haven't heard if the happy couple will be back for S3, but I hope to see them again.

Well done Clara for standing up to Edward.  I realize she was part of the problem, but I do give her credit for coming clean.  Not in love with her leaving the baby with Esther, but yes, we all knew it was going there.  I would love to see that conversation with Babington.  Also, I was worried they'd drag it out, so yay for resolving it this season.  I just wish we'd gotten rid of Edward once and for all - down a well, off a cliff, transported to Australia for poisoning a member of the nobility - anything would have worked for me more than him hanging around Sanditon.  Lovely scenes between Esther and Clara, though.  Charlotte Spencer has been stellar all season.  I really, really hope we get Mark Stanley for at least one appearance in S3 (if they knew they weren't getting him at all, they should have just recast, and I say this as someone who really adored him in S1).

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I have to say as predictable as this season has been I was actually surprised by a couple of things this episode.  I am very grateful that Clara came clean - big respect to her - and that the Esther gas-lighting plot is not dragging on into the final season.  I guess we may consider Esther departing with little George to reunite with Babington as her happy ending? I certainly do not want Edward to follow Esther to kidnap Baby George or something.

Speaking of Edward, I don't like that the character is sticking around, he should be in prison for poisoning Esther.

As for the rest, it's a happy ending for Allison and her Captain Fraser. Exit Lennox the cad and exit Lockhart in disgrace.

So we are left with resolving Georgiana's story - part of me wishes she would marry Jolly, they are adorable.

And then of course there is Charlotte with her out of nowhere farmer fiance and the mess Colbourne made of things.  I don't believe for a moment that the farmer is end game for Charlotte.

And now we wait until 2023.

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When Colbourne was at the Parkers and was apologizing to Charlotte and she told him she would not come back as his governess, I thought he was going to say, 'That's as it should be, because I want you to be my wife.' But NO, he walks out, she cries, he stops at the door but NO he doesn't go back to tell her his feelings. I said aloud. 'Oh FFS!' This is getting ridiculous!

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2 hours ago, gingerella said:

When Colbourne was at the Parkers and was apologizing to Charlotte and she told him she would not come back as his governess, I thought he was going to say, 'That's as it should be, because I want you to be my wife.' But NO, he walks out, she cries, he stops at the door but NO he doesn't go back to tell her his feelings. I said aloud. 'Oh FFS!' This is getting ridiculous!

Me too.  Colbourne is a very frustrating character.   Maybe he’s supposed to have what we’d know now as some kind of depressive disorder.  

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8 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

And...the final snarky recap of the season:

Brilliant as always.

So is this the end of Esther now that she is back with Babs?  I hate to think she is not in the third season.

And Farmer Ralph might have a dorky name but he was pretty good looking. Charlotte could do worse.

7 hours ago, CAM said:

Did anyone else get the impression that Georgiana's mom could be: Mrs. Wheatley?

No, but that would be kind of an interesting twist.

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6 hours ago, gingerella said:

When Colbourne was at the Parkers and was apologizing to Charlotte and she told him she would not come back as his governess, I thought he was going to say, 'That's as it should be, because I want you to be my wife.' But NO, he walks out, she cries, he stops at the door but NO he doesn't go back to tell her his feelings. I said aloud. 'Oh FFS!' This is getting ridiculous!

Nevertheless, IMO, very Austenian.

 

11 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

And Farmer Ralph might have a dorky name but he was pretty good looking. could do worse.

Heh. Farmer Ralph was NOT what I was expecting. 
I don't know what I was expecting. 
Overalls and a straw hat?
At least a little beefier?
Charlotte's look when she introduced him as her finance came close to being an eyeroll. Heh.

 

8 hours ago, CAM said:

Did anyone else get the impression that Georgiana's mom could be: Mrs. Wheatley?

Because she's the only Black woman of an appropriate age on the show? 
Confession:
I went there too.
And then scolded myself for it.
Even so, if a middle-aged, female, black actor is announced for next season, the secret will be over.
*Le sigh*
I will be very surprised if they can pull off this plot without a cringe factor of eleventy seven hundred.

I just hope they do better than with the scoundrel artist story. 

 

 

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I have to admit I was shocked and disappointed when Lockhart turned out to be a cad. I know many here predicted that, but I really didn't think the writers would have her fooled in this way. 

Glad Alison and Fraser got together. 

I was really bummed that Lennox was able to mess with Colbourne's mind so that he messed things up with Charlotte, though I figured we wouldn't be seeing them get happily married.

I really disliked the plot with Tom playing cards with Lennox to get the money. I swear, for a while I thought he and Arthur were cheating. I don't know if that would have been worse than simply gambling for such a sum. I hated it.

Georgianna learning that her mother is still alive made me think of The Gilded Age where Peggy learns that her child is still alive. Though her child is not a daughter, I had a vision of crossover episodes.

I too wondered about Mrs Wheatley possibly being Georgianna's mother. Yes, big ol' coincidence if true. But then I wondered if she'd have an accent. I guess it's possible that she'd been in the country long enuf to have lost it. Did we hear why she and Georgianna were separated?

We did see Ralph in the very first ep of the season at a dance with Charlotte.

Edited by peeayebee
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Arthur was the Hero of this episode, he helped his brother Tom out of his predicament & was a stand-up friend for Georgiana..Bravo!  Mr. Colbourne is really a Dolt & I was aggravated at him!  I was happy for Allison & Capt. Fraser, they make a cute couple.  I am hoping Charlotte gets her 'happy ending" in Season 3.

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I am confused about why nobody noticed the laudanum in Esther's drinks. It's a rusty colored liquid but the wedding breakfast wine/champagne was light and clear.  I can see hiding it in red wine but nothing else.  Plus it has a horrible taste.

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1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I really disliked the plot with Tom playing cards with Lennox to get the money. I swear, for a while I thought he and Arthur were cheating. I don't know if that would have been worse than simply gambling for such a sum. I hated it.

The 21 card game played for everything was so WTF? for me. No dressing it up as “vingt-et-un” by Tom makes it not gambling. Did we miss something? 
 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I have to admit I was shocked and disappointed when Lockhart turned out to be a cad. I know many here predicted that, but I really didn't think the writers would have her fooled in this way. 

The set decorators did an excellent job producing portraits of Georgiana by Scoundrel Artist in which something was just not quite right, so awards to them. But the plotting and writing was subpar, IMO. 
IDK. Did Austen sometimes gloss over the B plots? But shouldn’t this have been the other main plot instead of Charlotte’s sister’s silliness? 

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1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

I have to admit I was shocked and disappointed when Lockhart turned out to be a cad. I know many here predicted that, but I really didn't think the writers would have her fooled in this way. 

Glad Alison and Fraser got together. 

I was really bummed that Lennox was able to mess with Colbourne's mind so that he messed things up with Charlotte, though I figured we wouldn't be seeing them get happily married.

I really disliked the plot with Tom playing cards with Lennox to get the money. I swear, for a while I thought he and Arthur were cheating. I don't know if that would have been worse than simply gambling for such a sum. I hated it.

Georgianna learning that her mother is still alive made me think of The Gilded Age where Peggy learns that her child is still alive. Though her child is not a daughter, I had a vision of crossover episodes.

I too wondered about Mrs Wheatley possibly being Georgianna's mother. Yes, big ol' coincidence if true. But then I wondered if she'd have an accent. I guess it's possible that she'd been in the country long enuf to have lost it. Did we hear why she and Georgianna were separated?

We did see Ralph in the very first ep of the season at a dance with Charlotte.

Except for the Georgiana/Mrs. Wheatley comments, @peeayebee pretty much summed up my thoughts on this last episode of S2. 

As for what I bolded, this disappointed me more than anything about this episode/season. I was really hoping the show would upend our expectations and Lockhart would turn out to be what he seemed:

a slightly debauched libertine who doesn't care about social mores, and only lives to enjoy life. Someone who is passionate about his art and can be consumed when he's "in the zone". Still, an overall OK guy.  [I didn't want him and Georgiana to be together since I didn't sense any chemistry between them.]

Alas...ugh!

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Well, I'm glad Esther was finally freed from her laudanum poisoning, and I had a feeling she would end up with Clara's baby.  But, that just seem so fraught with peril.

10 hours ago, magdalene said:

I certainly do not want Edward to follow Esther to kidnap Baby George or something.

Right?  He's not just going to give up and be Lady D's bitch forever.  Edward is going to do something to torture Esther further, and maybe steal George, when he finds out where he is.

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So pretty much everyone got a happy ending except for Charlotte but I guess they need to leave something for next season. Still, I think she might be better off with the farmer boy. He's not so bad to look at, and every time she comes back to Sanditon something tragic happens. Stay home for once, Charlotte.

Quote

I have to admit I was shocked and disappointed when Lockhart turned out to be a cad. I know many here predicted that, but I really didn't think the writers would have her fooled in this way. 

I didn't think the writers could fool us in this way. Their villains are painted with a pretty broad brush, and the writing isn't subtle at all. Not only was Lockhart a cad but he was also her cousin, apparently. Did they say he's her father's nephew? Also, did they say she's not her father's biological child? I got a little lost in the discussion.

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I realize  it is a pretty safe bet that Charlotte will end up with Colbourne, but I wish she wouldn't.  Lennox was right: he is bad husband/relationship material.  

He goes all cold and closed up to everyone.  His wife, the two girls, and Charlotte.  Plus everyone else in all these years (how old is Leo?)  That is his way of dealing with everything.  He may seem to magically transform at the end of the series and marry Charlotte, but I don't trust magical transformations.  He will revert to form whenever something displeases or upsets him.

Charlotte at several points declared her intention to never marry, but make her own way alone.  I like the intention, and wish she could follow it, but it is not realistic in her world.  A farmer's daughter, who has some education but not enough to be a good governess (Augusta knew more than she did), and living in the country.  And of course the life of a governess is a hard one in general.

If she does get married instead, I would prefer that it be to farmer Ralph.  She got over Sidney quickly enough; she should be able to get over Colbourne as well and realize that he just had too large a red flag waving over him.

Edited by treeofdreams
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9 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I realize  it is a pretty safe bet that Charlotte will end up with Colbourne, but I wish she wouldn't.  Lennox was right: he is bad husband/relationship material.  

He goes all cold and closed up to everyone.  His wife, the two girls, and Charlotte.  Plus everyone else in all these years (how old is Leo?)  That is his way of dealing with everything.  He may seem to magically transform at the end of the series and marry Charlotte, but I don't trust magical transformations.  He will revert to form whenever something displeases or upsets him.

I agree.  He needs to grow up and use his words.  He is not fit to be a husband at this time and has piss poor communication and social skills.  At the same time, Charlotte also needs to use her words and stop being so black and white about everything.  She has the excuse of being so young, but she is clearly going to break that farmer's heart by getting engaged to him on the rebound.  Both of them should stay single until they learn how to be adults.

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4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Because she's the only Black woman of an appropriate age on the show? 
Confession:
I went there too.
And then scolded myself for it.
Even so, if a middle-aged, female, black actor is announced for next season, the secret will be over.
*Le sigh*
I will be very surprised if they can pull off this plot without a cringe factor of eleventy seven hundred.

I just hope they do better than with the scoundrel artist story. 

 

I went there too, it's not just you. BUT, I went there because this show has such contrived story lines that this would be within the realm of how this story is being unfolded.

It was rewarding to finally see Jolly Parker reap the true respect and affection of Tom, finally, though IMO Jolly deserves better than Tom as a sibling. IIRC, both Tom and Sidney never took him seriously, and that is why I adore Jolly with Georgiana, they get each other. They could make it work I think.

I miss Sidney... *sigh*

Edited by gingerella
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A couple of afterthoughts to continue on from my post above...

Regarding Charlotte's qualifications for being a governess, if I recall correctly, he didn't hire her to educate the girls but to make them behave better.  Which she did, but became more like a friend to them rather than a governess.  To try for a true governess's position in another household, she doesn't seem very qualified, especially for a family on a high social level.  And most governess's positions didn't pay well, and were not treated with much respect.  And to get any kind of decent position anyway, she undoubtedly would have needed to move to London to look for  job.

As to Charlotte's relationship with Colbourne, it was pretty much a repeat of what happened with Sidney.  Sidney was cold and rude to her at the beginning, and then they had one dance and both fell in love.  Colbourne was cold and closed to her at the beginning, then they had one dance and both fell in love.  Lazy writing.  But she got over Sidney so fast that she probably would have gotten over Colbourne with equal speed.

Okay, done nitpicking for now.  Probably will be back again...

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14 hours ago, JenMD said:

I just wish we'd gotten rid of Edward once and for all - down a well, off a cliff, transported to Australia for poisoning a member of the nobility - anything would have worked for me more than him hanging around Sanditon. 

Plot twist: Lady Denham completely reforms him and he is Charlotte’s end game? 😜

I would take a sledgehammer to my tv but Edward can’t spend yet another season being a slimy bastard, can he? CAN HE????

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