S10.E07: Marriage Bootcamp

[Sew Sumi]

Quote

Jinger and Jeremy hold a yard sale before their big move to LA; the married couples attend a marriage retreat where they focus on their relationships. 

[xwordfanatik]

This should yield snark galore.

[Oldernowiser]

What fresh hell...

[JustRosie]

No way anyone actually wants to participate in this retreat. If the show didn’t exist several of them wouldn’t be there. These are all adults. They don’t need mommy and daddy guiding their marriages. Just no. 

[Sew Sumi]

Bumping for anyone who wants to live snark. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Chicklet]

So...the secret to communicating is to ,.,,communicate. Who knew? He's a genius!

[JustRosie]

How awkward to talk about your marriage in front of family members. Would be easier with strangers. 

Bin’s beard. That is all. 

[flyingdi]

They actually let the little ladies tell them how to paddle their canoes?  I am shocked.

Does Lauren get migraines or something?  Or is Lauren just dramatic as hell?

There's always one person who can't tell right from left.  I know because that person is me.

[Sew Sumi]

Drama Llama was on full display. Again, she used the kids' crying as an excuse to stay in bed.

Poor Kendra, having to do all of this relationship work right in front of her father. Kind of creepy.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Annb67]

Lauren is tired. All the babies kept her awake. Lauren is nauseous. Lauren needs a nap. Lauren is the queen of drama. She's completely exhausting to be around I'm sure.

[awaken]

How deadly boring. 

Did the yard sale include getting rid of their cat?

[madpsych78]

Not surprised that Lauren didn't participate in half of the things.

Although, I am VERY surprised that she and Josiah "won" the communication activity. 

Of course Jessa cannot tell her left from her right. Although I think Jessa is one of the more intelligent members of the family, there's something about that tidbit that doesn't surprise me at all. 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Not surprised that Lauren didn't participate in half of the things.

Although, I am VERY surprised that she and Josiah "won" the communication activity. 

Of course Jessa cannot tell her left from her right. Although I think Jessa is one of the more intelligent members of the family, there's something about that tidbit that doesn't surprise me at all. 

FWIW, I was switched from being a lefty to a righty as a small child. It horribly fucked with my ability to tell the difference between my left and my right. Like, it didn't even register to me that my hand I write with was my right hand. It happened when I was quite young, and I had no memory of it. It was only after my brother explained to me that I was born left-handed and I realized I did so many things left-handed--including writing on a chalkboard, weirdly enough--that I was able to figure out the difference between my right and my left. I know now and have no trouble with it, but I went for years not being able to and giving people wrong directions because I didn't know. 

[Barb23]

Does anyone know when the marriage retreat was?  I wonder if it correlates to when Jill did all her posts on How to be a Good Wife  &  How I Keep my husband happy with lotion and games.  Kind of like a Screw You to her family by telling them the Dillards have a great marriage & don't need to go to the Duggar crappy retreat  They will go away by themselves & play their own  marriage games in private kind of thing.

[Sew Sumi]

Looked like early spring to me. One of the guys remarked that the lake was cold. 

[PradaKitty]

Why do Jimblob and Michelle consistently feel the need to wear matching outfits?  They look ridiculous.

[Sew Sumi]

Is it just me, or does Paul Caldwell give anyone else the heebie jeebies? I wonder how much Boob paid him to host that "retreat?"

[sATL]

The reason Jeremy didn't care how much he sold something for is not because he is starting to let go and/or didn't want to move it to LA  , but because he didn't pay for anything.

Jinger should have taken the lead on the sale - after all she still is the offspring of the great price negotiator Jim Bob. I'll give JB his credit on bargaining - he can bug the sh*t out of a person - they will drop the price just to get rid of him.

I guess in 2-4 years time - Jemery and Jinger couldn't catch an episode of Sesame Street and learn numbers in Spanish, let alone go to a grocery store, restaurant, shouldn't have to rely on some random friend passerby name Ana.. I hope she got a $$ cut for her translation/negotiation services. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by sATL

[sATL]

I kinda wish the Voluvos would have/could have had the garage sale another weekend and made a trip back for this retreat.  I think Jermey would have brought a level of humor the other men don't have.

Funny Ben and Jessa started doing their own birds nest - would have been inventive to have a 2 bedroom birds nest.. 😀

I felt a little sorry for Josiah to stand there and repeat his vows into a phone while Lauren "claims" she is too sick to come into the next room or wouldn't allow cameras into the bedroom. Woman - you're not the first to be pregnant and feel tired and queasy. Learn to function and deal. Hell - your pregnant sister-in-law carries live stock ... 3 pregnant women are with you..

Marriage retreat with 2 double beds for the couples  in the same bedroom????

Edited November 27, 2019 by sATL

[becca3891]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Is it just me, or does Paul Caldwell give anyone else the heebie jeebies? I wonder how much Boob paid him to host that "retreat?"

He does creep me out a little. Not as badly as Toby Willis, who disturbed me years before the truth about him came out, but something about him does seem a little "off."

[Dimi1]

I watched this and WOW..so many thoughts...I think Lauren is passive aggressive and did not get her way with the birds nest...so her way of punishing/manipulating Josiah is to check out/isolate...I felt this episode was the most telling of the way the Duggar's were raised..."no schedule".."fly by the seat of your pants" "no sit down meals"....what a disservice to your kids...Schedules make kids feel safe...and they don't have to be elaborate or written in stone...Meal times, bed times, school times....it must have been one chaotic mess in that house from the start of each day...I knew a gotherdite family while raising my own kids...and they struggle with the same things the dagger adult kids do...its like there is no sense of what the real world is like because they just never functioned like normal society...and yeah...the adults kids of the family I know are even worse than the Dugger kiddults...

[sATL]

26 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

I watched this and WOW..so many thoughts...I think Lauren is passive aggressive and did not get her way with the birds nest...so her way of punishing/manipulating Josiah is to check out/isolate...I felt this episode was the most telling of the way the Duggar's were raised..."no schedule".."fly by the seat of your pants" "no sit down meals"....what a disservice to your kids...Schedules make kids feel safe...and they don't have to be elaborate or written in stone...Meal times, bed times, school times....it must have been one chaotic mess in that house from the start of each day...I knew a gotherdite family while raising my own kids...and they struggle with the same things the dagger adult kids do...its like there is no sense of what the real world is like because they just never functioned like normal society...and yeah...the adults kids of the family I know are even worse than the Dugger kiddults...

I thought about that when Jessa/Ben were talking about meal cooking. Jessa probably got that way of being in a setting where there is not enough food and/or trying to stretch products for the meal. Eat early and fast if you want food. Sitting is optional and slows one down.

 If you're the cook - you gotta taste the food, no one is going to miss this piece of chicken, let me grab a few fries,  sneak a piece of whatever while its hot, etc. By the time the food hits the table/ serving dish - the cook has already eaten and full.

Plus the Duggars has that chow hall/commercial cafeteria buffet-style  kitchen where they went down the line..I thought they did at least sit at the big table,though... I guess that was for TV

Edited November 27, 2019 by sATL

[FizzyPuff]

4 hours ago, sATL said:

I kinda wish the Voluvos would have/could have had the garage sale another weekend and made a trip back for this retreat.  I think Jermey would have brought a level of humor the other men don't have.

Funny Ben and Jessa started doing their own birds nest - would have been inventive to have a 2 bedroom birds nest.. 😀

I felt a little sorry for Josiah to stand there and repeat his vows into a phone while Lauren "claims" she is too sick to come into the next room or wouldn't allow cameras into the bedroom. Woman - you're not the first to be pregnant and feel tired and queasy. Learn to function and deal. Hell - your pregnant sister-in-law carries live stock ... 3 pregnant women are with you..

Marriage retreat with 2 double beds for the couples  in the same bedroom????

I actually think Jeremy and Jinger had some sense to stay away from this marriage retreat, the whole thing seemed stupid.

Lauren saying she couldn’t sleep properly last night because of kids waking her up made me laugh, she was pregnant and all I could think was soon you’ll be waking up every night to your kid making noise. 
I did feel sorry for Josiah that Lauren left him because she wasn’t feeling well he just seemed so alone poor guy why did Lauren even bother to turn up.I think she should’ve at least stood there while Josiah said the wedding vows again, even if she felt sick how hard is it to stand there for a minute.

Yes the shared bedrooms on a marriage retreat was creepy.

[louannems]

9 hours ago, PradaKitty said:

Why do Jimblob and Michelle consistently feel the need to wear matching outfits?  They look ridiculous.

They have worn the exact same clothing for all of the TH's this season.  Same with Jana's green sweater.  So do they sit there and do TH's for the entire season in one filming session?

[lascuba]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm ashamed for feeling this way and I welcome any mocking you feel I deserve.

Lauren taking a nap on the couch and then refusing to take part in the vow renewal or whatever the hell that was? GOOD. FOR. HER. All the standard criticisms of that drama queen still applies, but the fact that she didn't give a fuck about this obvious content-for-TLC material and refused to take part in most of it is practically subversive and for that brief moment she was top on my least hated Duggar list.

SHE MADE JOSIAH SPEAK VOWS TO A PHONE!

Is this what stanning feels like?

Edited November 27, 2019 by lascuba

[Barb23]

3 hours ago, Dimi1 said:

I watched this and WOW..so many thoughts...I think Lauren is passive aggressive and did not get her way with the birds nest...so her way of punishing/manipulating Josiah is to check out/isolate...I felt this episode was the most telling of the way the Duggar's were raised..."no schedule".."fly by the seat of your pants" "no sit down meals"....what a disservice to your kids...Schedules make kids feel safe...and they don't have to be elaborate or written in stone...Meal times, bed times, school times....it must have been one chaotic mess in that house from the start of each day...I knew a gotherdite family while raising my own kids...and they struggle with the same things the dagger adult kids do...its like there is no sense of what the real world is like because they just never functioned like normal society...and yeah...the adults kids of the family I know are even worse than the Dugger kiddults...

I definitely feel the same way about needing schedules.  I would think a large family like theirs would have had a schedule to follow but we are hearing things to the contrary.  I thought Mechelle came across as the Schedule Queen on the earlier episodes when it was 14&C. I remember the huge multi colored sticky note schedule on the wall & her explaining it.  I guess it ended up being just for show as more blessings arrived.

Can't these couples sit together without all the PDA?  Hand holding or putting a hand on your partner's leg is one thing but I don't need to see the couples constantly entangled with their significant others when they are together. They don't need to show us that they are in so much love they can't  keep their hands off each another. Maybe it has to do with their basically show no affection courting & engagement.  I dont know,  I guess I'm just an old prude but I have never been a big PDA person or have been around other couples that act like they do even when we were younger. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Barb23

[lascuba]

5 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I definitely feel the same way about needing schedules.  I would think a large family like theirs would have had a schedule to follow but we are hearing things to the contrary.  I thought Mechelle came across as the Schedule Queen on the earlier episodes when it was 14&C. I remember the huge multi colored sticky note schedule on the wall & her explaining it.  I guess it ended up being just for show as more blessings arrived.

Can't these couples sit together without all the PDA?  Hand holding or putting a hand on your partner's leg is one thing but I don't need to see the couples constantly entangled with their significant others when they are together. They don't need to show us that they are in so much love they can't  keep their hands off one another. Maybe it has to do with their basically show no affection courting & engagement.  I dont know,  I guess I'm just an old prude but I have never been a big PDA person or have been around other couples that act like they do even when we were younger. 

I think a big part of the change (if it did change and they weren't always running without any kind of schedule) comes from all the speaking engagements that came with the fame. Michelle and Jim Bob have always been far more invested in spreading their version of Jesus than in raising their family, especially once the older girls were old enough to be left alone with the kids. Once they were traveling all the time to "fellowship" with other churches and stuff, the schedule was thrown out the window.

[SabineElisabeth]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Lauren taking a nap on the couch and then refusing to take part in the vow renewal or whatever the hell that was? GOOD. FOR. HER. All the standard criticisms of that drama queen still applies, but the fact that she didn't give a fuck about this obvious content-for-TLC material and refused to take part in most of it is practically subversive and for that brief moment she was top on my least hated Duggar list.

Lauren gives NO fucks about anything or anyone other than herself.  So far this season we've heard her say that her reaction to others' depression was "Whatever." We've seen her not get her way during the nest challenge and suddenly become so very nauseated that she just had to leave the group.  The next morning she refuses to even get out of bed and calls out Joy and Kendra for bringing babies who - gasp! - cried during the night.  And all of it said in her fucking whispery voice with that haughty tone that probably comes from her nose being so fucking high in the air. 

Seriously, where did this girl come from??  And what in the actual hell did Josiah see in her?  I get he wanted to get married asap after Marjorie exited stage left - actually, ran screaming because... she was apparently a smart one and wanted no part of the circus that was sure to follow Josh-gate.  But surely to God Josiah could've done better than freaking Lauren.  I would love to know what the other Duggars/Duggar spouses really think of her.

Aside from the very strong urge to slap Lauren silly that lasted the entirely of the show, I did laugh when poor Ben ended up going in circles in his canoe.  And also got a giggle out of Joe's self-deprecating comment about sobbing at his wedding.  Otherwise, not the most compelling of episodes, IMHO.

Edited November 27, 2019 by SabineElisabeth

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm ashamed for feeling this way and I welcome any mocking you feel I deserve.

Lauren taking a nap on the couch and then refusing to take part in the vow renewal or whatever the hell that was? GOOD. FOR. HER. All the standard criticisms of that drama queen still applies, but the fact that she didn't give a fuck about this obvious content-for-TLC material and refused to take part in most of it is practically subversive and for that brief moment she was top on my least hated Duggar list.

SHE MADE JOSIAH SPEAK VOWS TO A PHONE!

Is this what stanning feels like?

Emphasis on the "practically." As in "close but no cigar"! 

There's no question in my mind that Dad Swanson and Lauren signed onto Lauren's marriage because the Duggars are on TLC. Thus, they're famous and therefore important! 

So whatever she's rejecting, it ain't TLC or made-for-TeeVee moments or made-for TeeVee fame. She sold her soul, marrying a man she doesn't give a crap about in order to become famous by having babeeez on TLC.  There's no way you could convince me that somebody with her drama queen tendencies wasn't simply dying to drama-queen it on television.

Isn't that exactly what she was doing on that show by not appearing in the "activities" in this episode? Note how much more attention she's gotten than anybody else -- by the ploy of pretending to withhold her presence. Withholding her presence is what got her the attention, so she certainly did it on purpose (if not entirely consciously, perhaps, since she's been a drama queen for so long that she's got this kind of maneuver on automatic). 

I'd call this the opposite of rebellion and not giving a fuck! I'd say she gave many many fucks. To the point of being downright mean to her (admittedly utterly unloved) husband, making him suffer for no reason, for the sole purpose of getting more attention for HER from the TLC audience. 

I'd call it what we've been calling the Long Mourning of Asa -- Milking it. By doing the opposite to everybody else -- staying off the screen -- she cleverly managed to milk that episode dry. 

Side note to Lauren and all the Duggs and adjacents who think that being on TeeVee and becoming "famous" makes you special, important, aspirational, etc:  The Three Stooges were on TeeVee. For much longer than the Duggars. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

2 minutes ago, SabineElisabeth said:

Lauren gives NO fucks about anything or anyone other than herself.  So far this season we've heard her say that her reaction to others' depression was "Whatever." We've seen her not get her way during the nest challenge and suddenly become so very nauseated that she just had to leave the group.  The next morning she refuses to even get out of bed and calls out Joy and Kendra for bringing babies who - gasp! - cried during the night.  And all of it said in her fucking whispery voice with that haughty tone that probably comes from her nose being so fucking high in the air. 

Seriously, where did this girl come from??  And what in the actual hell did Josiah see in her?  I get he wanted to get married asap after Marjorie exited stage left - actually, ran screaming because... she was apparently a smart one.  But surely to God Josiah could've done better than freaking Lauren.  I would love to know what the other Duggars/Duggar spouses really think of her.

Aside from the very strong urge to slap Lauren silly that lasted the entirely of the show, I did laugh when poor Ben ended up going in circles in his canoe.  And also got a giggle out of Joe's self-deprecating comment about sobbing at his wedding.  Otherwise, not the most compelling of episodes, IMHO.

Oh, Lauren sucks, absolutely. But as someone who a) hates the family as a whole, b)hates all the stuff they do that's clearly just to give TLC something to film, c) hates that they rarely if ever express any real negative emotions while on camera, I greatly appreciated her in this episode. The nest building exercise was dumb. Josiah annoyed her while doing it. It would be unwifely to openly state in front of everyone, "You're annoying me with this and I don't want to do this anymore, " so she played the headache card and lay on the couch. Then the next day they had to do that vow thing, which is another dumb fake thing for the camera, and who knows what else she was annoyed by, so she refused to even show up. I straight up cackled when Josiah still went and recited his vows.

[lascuba]

22 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Emphasis on the "practically." As in "close but no cigar"! 

There's no question in my mind that Dad Swanson and Lauren signed onto Lauren's marriage because the Duggars are on TLC. Thus, they're famous and therefore important! 

So whatever she's rejecting, it ain't TLC or made-for-TeeVee moments or made-for TeeVee fame. She sold her soul, marrying a man she doesn't give a crap about in order to become famous by having babeeez on TLC.  There's no way you could convince me that somebody with her drama queen tendencies wasn't simply dying to drama-queen it on television.

Isn't that exactly what she was doing on that show by not appearing in the "activities" in this episode? Note how much more attention she's gotten than anybody else -- by the ploy of pretending to withhold her presence. Withholding her presence is what got her the attention, so she certainly did it on purpose (if not entirely consciously, perhaps, since she's been a drama queen for so long that she's got this kind of maneuver on automatic). 

I'd call this the opposite of rebellion and not giving a fuck! I'd say she gave many many fucks. To the point of being downright mean to her (admittedly utterly unloved) husband, making him suffer for no reason, for the sole purpose of getting more attention for HER from the TLC audience. 

I'd call it what we've been calling the Long Mourning of Asa -- Milking it. By doing the opposite to everybody else -- staying off the screen -- she cleverly managed to milk that episode dry. 

Side note to Lauren and all the Duggs and adjacents who think that being on TeeVee and becoming "famous" makes you special, important, aspirational, etc:  The Three Stooges were on TeeVee. For much longer than the Duggars. 

I know there's no such thing as bad attention to a drama queen, but...I don't know, I just don't think that that's the way it would have gone down if she just wanted the attention? Or more to the point, I don't think that's how she consciously would have chosen to get attention, because I think she's always subconsciously seeking attention on top of the deliberate things she does.  I don't think she's smart enough to refuse to participate in a TLC activity in a bid to stand out from that crowd. If anything, it was dumb move on her part, because hell yes she's in this for the TLC fame and she has to know/believe (I know, I know) that it's generally better to put on a happier face during this type of thing, or at the very least ride that line between snark and keeping sweet.

I really got the impression that she was just pissed off at Josiah--add that to being annoyed at such an asinine activity, and she bailed. But honestly, even if it was all about getting more attention, I'm going to side with the person who throws a wrench in the Duggar game. I mean, IMAGINE being Joy, for example, who is often low-key contemptuous of the nonsense they have to do for TLC but does it anyway because paychecks and ministry and yada yada yada. For her to see Lauren do what I'm sure she's fantasized about doing all her life is just...*chef's kiss.*

ETA: I guess the tl:dr version is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend and in this one instance, I'm pro-Lauren.

Edited November 27, 2019 by lascuba

[Maya]

Interesting dynamics revealed this episode. Jessa and Ben each made their own nest without realizing it. Abbie was afraid to tell JD what to do, because she didn’t know what he wanted to do. Lauren had one or all of the following problems: nausea, migraine, tired from being up all night, morning sickness, gagging and/or mad that Josiah wasn’t listening to her. Austin was excited for Joy to fix some things about herself. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Maya

[Churchhoney]

45 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Oh, Lauren sucks, absolutely. But as someone who a) hates the family as a whole, b)hates all the stuff they do that's clearly just to give TLC something to film, c) hates that they rarely if ever express any real negative emotions while on camera, I greatly appreciated her in this episode. The nest building exercise was dumb. Josiah annoyed her while doing it. It would be unwifely to openly state in front of everyone, "You're annoying me with this and I don't want to do this anymore, " so she played the headache card and lay on the couch. Then the next day they had to do that vow thing, which is another dumb fake thing for the camera, and who knows what else she was annoyed by, so she refused to even show up. I straight up cackled when Josiah still went and recited his vows.

Yeah, I get it! Unfortunately, I grew up with one of these "retreat to the couch" people.

And she didn't do it only when somebody had annoyed her.  She did it completely at random (from others' point of view) and solely to force everyone's attention onto her and to make people miserable, even when they'd treated her well.

And in every other way, she was quite ignorant and stupid. Crashingly so. Seemingly too stupid, maybe, to perform these kinds of maneuvers. But what I'm pretty sure I learned about this type of person is that they're so motivated to grab attention and make others miserable, that pretty much 100 percent of their brainpower throughout life has gone into developing methods of doing that. They simply don't have the time or the interest to think about anything else.....so they can be quite clever, in a way,  about devising actions like this while showing no brains at all about other things. 

I can't help but see that behavior in Lauren, given the level of drama queen she seems to be! (Caveat: I don't watch the show. I'm basing my judgmental comments entirely on what I hear from others and the tiny snippets I've seen of Lauren here and there.)

1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

Can't these couples sit together without all the PDA?  Hand holding or putting a hand on your partner's leg is one thing but I don't need to see the couples constantly entangled with their significant others when they are together. They don't need to show us that they are in so much love they can't  keep their hands off each another. Maybe it has to do with their basically show no affection courting & engagement.  I dont know,  I guess I'm just an old prude but I have never been a big PDA person or have been around other couples that act like they do even when we were younger. 

They're all severe cases of arrested development. So I'd guess it's just like middle schoolers doing it -- the thrill of showing others this forbidden thing you're doing.....And, in the Duggs' case, of course, showing the heathens that real love only happens between conservative Christians. 

Mehthinks they protest too much.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Churchhoney

[zoomama]

speaking for myself -- i had the thought this morning when reading this thread about how hurtful this would be to read about myself. on the random chance that the family reads here, i am going to monitor my choice in posting and temper my words with that thought. now, please know that i may agree with what you/we post, but i am going to be more aware in the future as to HOW i word things.

also, regarding all the angst posted about josiah - i really dont see it. he seems happy and affectionate to his wife and now baby. i sure dont want to be the one to put a false read on him. ..and in the future if i am proven wrong, well so be it.

[Squirrely]

These people make marriage sound like a chore. That's what happens when you get zero time alone while "courting," and turn into baby factories by the time the ink on the marriage license is dry. Not to say that it doesn't take work and effort at times, but damn! It shouldn't be a daily struggle to contend with. 

My heart goes out to Joy and Austin. It's sad to know how the pregnancy depicted in the show comes to an end, and they're already clearly overwhelmed with life as it is. That sort of thing can break a strong marriage between mature adults who have lived and experienced real life beforehand, and who have had real time together, just the 2 of them. 

[rue721]

I think that Lauren was trying to be polite by saying that she was flaking out because she didn't feel well. If she had been being real, she would have said that she was too annoyed and frustrated by Josiah and needed to get out of there before she lost her frigging mind, but I think she was trying to be "good," "sweet," "polite" by blaming a headache, upset stomach, tiredness, etc, instead. It still came out in that talking head about building the nest, though, that she just really couldn't stand to continue the relationship building exercises with Josiah.

I think she's really disliking Josiah and really unhappy with this marriage. To miss the vow renewal in particular says a lot. Who knows what either one of them is like at home but right now they seem like the poster children for "marry in haste, repent in leisure."

Honestly, I think it might genuinely be too frustrating and painful for her to play at "happy couples" with a man who she can't stand.

What I also found interesting was how unexpectedly awful Joy and Austin's relationship seemed. I think maybe the miscarriage did wind up bringing them closer together, because in this episode...It seems like a very patriarchal marriage, in a way that I found kind of distressing, and it also seemed like there's likely a lot of unhappiness behind closed doors. Austin seems to be wound so tight and Joy seems so browbeaten.

Ben and Jessa also seemed to really not be getting along too well, but to me they still seemed very comfortable with each other in a way that the other couples aren't. Despite apparently being in a rough patch, they seem to me to have the most "normal" dynamic.

Even Jinger seems to be performing for Jeremy. If any of you watch The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, they remind me of Midge and Joel's relationship in the very, very beginning of the show, before Joel left her. I guess instead of being "competing" comedians, they're competing influencers!

[madpsych78]

58 minutes ago, Maya said:

Interesting dynamics revealed this episode. Jessa and Ben each made their own nest without realizing it. Abbie was afraid to tell JD what to do, because she didn’t know what he wanted to do. Lauren had one or all of the following problems: nausea, migraine, tired from being up all night, morning sickness, gagging and/or mad that Josiah wasn’t listening to her. Austin was excited for Joy to fix some things about herself. 

And meanwhile, still no drama with Joe and Kendra.

Quote

I think she's really disliking Josiah and really unhappy with this marriage. To miss the vow renewal in particular says a lot. Who knows what either one of them is like at home but right now they seem like the poster children for "marry in haste, repent in leisure."

Yes. Why would Josiah perform his vows on the phone when she was in the same freakin' building? Couldn't they have just moved the vow renewal thing to Josiah and Lauren's room if Lauren wanted to stay in bed?

Edited November 27, 2019 by madpsych78

[xwordfanatik]

6 hours ago, becca3891 said:

He does creep me out a little. Not as badly as Toby Willis, who disturbed me years before the truth about him came out, but something about him does seem a little "off."

I agree.  He's creepy.  

[rue721]

12 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Why would Josiah perform his vows on the phone when she was in the same freakin' building?

It's even worse than that -- she wasn't on the other end of the phone, he was filming a video of himself reading the vows so that she could (theoretically) watch it later.

And she didn't record herself reading any vows to him, or even write vows to him that he or the pastor could read. Either of which she could have done from a sickbed.

Edited November 27, 2019 by rue721

[Whyyouneedaname]

& If they are considering this a "legit marriage retreat" the good Pastor should do his duties and council Si & Princess Lauren.....

[alegtostandon]

13 hours ago, Zella said:

FWIW, I was switched from being a lefty to a righty as a small child. It horribly fucked with my ability to tell the difference between my left and my right. Like, it didn't even register to me that my hand I write with was my right hand. It happened when I was quite young, and I had no memory of it. It was only after my brother explained to me that I was born left-handed and I realized I did so many things left-handed--including writing on a chalkboard, weirdly enough--that I was able to figure out the difference between my right and my left. I know now and have no trouble with it, but I went for years not being able to and giving people wrong directions because I didn't know. 

I feel for you,  Zella.  I am the only left handed in the family.  My parents said they recognized when I was very young that I was going to be left handed and never tried to change it.  In 4th grade,  my teacher brought to the attention of the class that I was the only left handed kid in class and it was up to her to "correct" this,  so whenever one of the other kids saw me using my left hand,  they were to call it out.  While I was writing,  she would hit me on the knuckles with a ruler.  She finally began tying my left hand behind my back to the chair.  I never said anything because I was made to feel like I was being punished in school & was ashamed to tell my parents.  They did notice me struggling to write with my right hand at home one evening and questioned me.  I repeated to them what Mrs. Kuhl had told me,  being left handed was a sign of mental illness and a sign of the devil.  My dad was at the school the next day.  I do not know all that transpired but what I remember was my dad (who was not a doctor but in the medical profession) standing in front of the class with Teacher,  Principal & someone I later found out was the superintendent, explained being left handed was as normal as being right handed & we were not to be shamed as he handed over a case of kids left handed scissors to Mrs. Kuhl.  I stil have my pair.   This was 1969.

I found it funny that the first ones to finish the direction challenge were the non-Duggar men,  minus Bin, he's been under control of that family too long.  

Speaking of Bin, that beard looks horrible on him.  I use to think he was a decent looking guy.  

[xwordfanatik]

Mr. Xword was forced to be right-handed, too.  That is sad.

[madpsych78]

8 minutes ago, alegtostandon said:

I found it funny that the first ones to finish the direction challenge were the non-Duggar men,  minus Bin, he's been under control of that family too long.  

Speaking of Bin, that beard looks horrible on him.  I use to think he was a decent looking guy.  

Josiah was the first to finish the challenge with the ducks. Evidently their relationship works best when Lauren barks and Josiah just follows. 

[alegtostandon]

5 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Josiah was the first to finish the challenge with the ducks. Evidently their relationship works best when Lauren barks and Josiah just follows. 

Oh, I thought it was Joy's husband who finished first,  they all start to look alike.  I just loved Bin going in circles, rowing over his duck. 

[Annb67]

39 minutes ago, rue721 said:

It's even worse than that -- she wasn't on the other end of the phone, he was filming a video of himself reading the vows so that she could (theoretically) watch it later.

And she didn't record herself reading any vows to him, or even write vows to him that he or the pastor could read. Either of which she could have done from a sickbed.

If that isn't telling I don't know what is. Like, the only reason you couldn't be on the other end was because you were undergoing surgery...lol

[louannems]

I've been married 33 years and we've never been to a marriage retreat.  But, if I felt the need to, I sure wouldn't attend with anyone I knew, let alone my siblings or dad!  WTF!!!

Also, the couples sleeping in the same bedrooms was just gross; especially with siblings.

[Pingaponga]

Do most people sell of the cans of paint left over from when they painted their house? Everyone I know leaves them for the next owner in case they want/need to do touch-ups in different rooms. I thought it was weird that Jeremy and Jinger were just selling the paint.

[DangerousMinds]

Didn’t Lauren grow up with a gaggle of younger siblings? You have to wonder how she ever got any sleep!

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Lauren is tired. All the babies kept her awake. Lauren is nauseous. Lauren needs a nap. Lauren is the queen of drama. She's completely exhausting to be around I'm sure.

Crying babies keep her awake?  The next 20 years ought to be a blast with this one.  

[SabineElisabeth]

2 hours ago, zoomama said:

speaking for myself -- i had the thought this morning when reading this thread about how hurtful this would be to read about myself. on the random chance that the family reads here, i am going to monitor my choice in posting and temper my words with that thought...

also, regarding all the angst posted about josiah - i really dont see it. he seems happy and affectionate to his wife...

I've given that significant thought myself and the boundaries I've settled on are that I don't say negative things about little ones, oeriod, and I keep my comments confined to message boards that are obviously intended for snark. If someone intentionally seeks out snark about him/herself, I don't consider myself responsible for that. IMHO, directing nasty comments to people directly  - via social media, for example  - crosses the line, regardless of the fact they chose to be on a reality tv show.

As for Josiah, I agree he seems happy. Best I can tell, he's completely oblivious to the contempt Lauren has for him. I do think Lauren has some sincere appreciation for the things he does gor her; I think she just really can't stand his personality, generally speaking. 

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

What I also found interesting was how unexpectedly awful Joy and Austin's relationship seemed. I think maybe the miscarriage did wind up bringing them closer together, because in this episode...It seems like a very patriarchal marriage, in a way that I found kind of distressing, and it also seemed like there's likely a lot of unhappiness behind closed doors. Austin seems to be wound so tight and Joy seems so browbeaten.

To me, Joy-Anna and Austin seem well-matched and happy. Austin's a little intense, maybe, but has a good sense of humor and seems to find Joy'-Anna's spunky lightheartedness endearing.  They also seem to work well together on projects and whanot and enjoy doing so. I think they also share a similar distaste for bullshit. And IMHO, I see nothing in the way Joy-Anna interacts with Austin to suggest he's controlling, etc. No anxiety, she pokes at him and genuinely laughs while doing so, just seems at ease, to me. What I read most often from Joy-Anna is a very strong urge to roll her eyes and say "Peace Out" to her family sometimes or just exhaustion, presumably from being pregnant/taking care of a baby.

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

And meanwhile, still no drama with Joe and Kendra.

#teamkendra. Joe definitely is not exciring, but he's steady as the day is long and adores his wife - and Kendra seems completely happy with that.  Really, Kendra is just an inherently happy person who doesn't rely on outside influences or other people to make her happy, it seems.