Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Ambrosefolly]

6 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I agree with this assessment. It was Nelle, big deal. Same thing with stealing Ryan's organ. He's a freaking serial killer. I don't care what anyone does to him.

I don't. Rights are rights and even criminals have them. It would be one thing if Ryan had just died and Kevin gave away, it would be legal. I didn't like it when Dr. Steven Webber was sent to prison for killing a murderer and giving his organs to a 14 year old girl, but Steve had no right to kill the man and steal his organs. Also, with a lot of times on the show they often bump up people to get the organs right then and there and instead of giving the organs to someone that had been waiting months or even years. In regards to Nelle, she had a point about caution when it came to the surgery.

[dubbel zout]

And because Monica and Bobbie are connected to Sonny, that's extra justification for them not suffer circumstances. Fuck that.

[perkie1968]

56 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Same thing with stealing Ryan's organ.

Gotta say, I wasn't sad or offended that they took Ryan's kidney.  Maybe cuz he was a terrible person and the people doing the deed (Curtis, Finn, Liz, Pif) are decent characters for me.  (Also, they've swept that so hard under the rug it took me several minutes here to remember who ended up with said kidney.)  

Treating Nelle the way they did though, I have/had major problems with it.  Despite her villainous, the fact that it was once again, the Corinthi on the "good " side of the fence just made me side with Nelle, no matter what I thought.  

Maybe that makes me hypocritical, but I'm ok with that!!

[Melgaypet]

7 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Gotta say, I wasn't sad or offended that they took Ryan's kidney.  Maybe cuz he was a terrible person and the people doing the deed (Curtis, Finn, Liz, Pif) are decent characters for me.  (Also, they've swept that so hard under the rug it took me several minutes here to remember who ended up with said kidney.)  

Treating Nelle the way they did though, I have/had major problems with it.  Despite her villainous, the fact that it was once again, the Corinthi on the "good " side of the fence just made me side with Nelle, no matter what I thought.  

Maybe that makes me hypocritical, but I'm ok with that!!

All of this.

I didn't have a problem with the theft of Ryan's kidney, either, but - here's the thing - I wouldn't have had a problem with those involved facing professional consequences if they had been caught, either. That's the risk they all knowingly took, and I wouldn't have had much patience with any whining over being punished for breaking rules they knew full well applied to them.

[FilmTVGeek80]

49 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I don't. Rights are rights and even criminals have them. It would be one thing if Ryan had just died and Kevin gave away, it would be legal. I didn't like it when Dr. Steven Webber was sent to prison for killing a murderer and giving his organs to a 14 year old girl, but Steve had no right to kill the man and steal his organs. Also, with a lot of times on the show they often bump up people to get the organs right then and there and instead of giving the organs to someone that had been waiting months or even years. In regards to Nelle, she had a point about caution when it came to the surgery.

I can agree with that in principle, but on tv/movies I really don't care about criminals rights, especially someoneLike Ryan who was a serial killer and relished mutilating people and had no remorse. I don't care about someone like that getting hurt.

As for Nelle, I don't think she cared so much about caution. I think she just didn't want the surgery because it was what Carly wanted plus she was too hung up on what happened to her when she was a kid.

16 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Gotta say, I wasn't sad or offended that they took Ryan's kidney.  Maybe cuz he was a terrible person and the people doing the deed (Curtis, Finn, Liz, Pif) are decent characters for me.  (Also, they've swept that so hard under the rug it took me several minutes here to remember who ended up with said kidney.)  

Treating Nelle the way they did though, I have/had major problems with it.  Despite her villainous, the fact that it was once again, the Corinthi on the "good " side of the fence just made me side with Nelle, no matter what I thought.  

Maybe that makes me hypocritical, but I'm ok with that!!

I get that. I hate the Corinthii, but Nelle sucked so badly I hated her just as much and couldn't root for her. I think most of us are hypocrites in that way. It mostly depends on who's being hurt and how we feel about them. I have no issue with what was done to Nelle, but it would probably bother me if it was done to someone I liked like Willow or something. And I think, despite all the talk about how unethical and illegal what Monica/Bobbie did was and how they deserved to be punished, if someone walked up to Carly or Sonny and shot them for "no reason" a lot of people wouldn't care despite that being illegal as well. I would definitely want to throw that hypothetical person a parade.

[perkie1968]

5 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

I wouldn't have had a problem with those involved facing professional consequences if they had been caught, either.

And this is where my train takes a different rail and makes me a hypocrite.  If the "bad" guys in question had been any of the Corinthi faction, I would have been all over them with getting their consequences and pissed when they skated by, yet again.   But in this case, the instigators were curtis and Kevin (if I remember correctly) with Liz, Finn and Pif being dragged in by virtue of being the ones on staff at the hospital.  So I would have taken issue with Curtis being reprimanded because he was trying to save his wife's life.  I would have taken issue with the hospital staff being reprimanded for doing something that the criminal element do on a regular basis and don't get punished for.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

And this is where my train takes a different rail and makes me a hypocrite.  If the "bad" guys in question had been any of the Corinthi faction, I would have been all over them with getting their consequences and pissed when they skated by, yet again.   But in this case, the instigators were curtis and Kevin (if I remember correctly) with Liz, Finn and Pif being dragged in by virtue of being the ones on staff at the hospital.  So I would have taken issue with Curtis being reprimanded because he was trying to save his wife's life.  I would have taken issue with the hospital staff being reprimanded for doing something that the criminal element do on a regular basis and don't get punished for.  

This is why I do have an issue with Monica and Bobbie being punished for this (well less so Bobbie because she's been insufferable for ages.) I hate that Monica is the only one losing something over this while Carly, who instigated the whole thing, escapes punishment (Unless we're supposed to consider her "guilt" over Nelle's "death" punishment.) It also doesn't help that Cyrus is doing this, and not because he gives a crap about Monica and Bobbie doing anything unethical, but because he wants to put people in place who'll do unethical things on his behalf.

[perkie1968]

14 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

As for Nelle, I don't think she cared so much about caution. I think she just didn't want the surgery because it was what Carly wanted

Im of two minds on this and its mostly because of the way Chloe played it.  If my memory is correct and it could be wrong, when Nelle first shows up at the hospital, she's clearly worried about Wylie.  To me, that's what Chloe was conveying.   She doesn't understand the surgery, doesn't understand the rush, doesn't understand why they aren't getting her a second opinion.  Carly wasn't at the hospital yet (I don't think), it was Millow and Monica.  Millow were busy being mean girl bitches and Monica was being dismissive.  When Carly does show up, then it turns into a Carly vs Nelle and is no longer about Wylie but about one upmanship.  At that point Chloe's showing the other side of Nelle, the vindictive biatch who's going to say up if Carly says down, come hell or high water.  For me there is always two sides to Chloe's portrayal of Nelle and depending on which one we get on any given day, decides how I'm going to react to her actions.  

14 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

if someone walked up to Carly or Sonny and shot them for "no reason" a lot of people wouldn't care despite that being illegal as well.

Again, it would depend who had done it.  Eh, who am I kidding, if someone shot Sonny, I would be throwing them a parade, unless he didn't die at which point I'd smack whoever in the head for not getting the job done right!!  It would bother me though, if someone shot Carly, because despite her track record, I don't think she deserves that.  Plus, Sonny would make it all about him and sit in the chapel wondering why someone would do this to his precious Carly.  Why, why, why God.  

Edited September 13, 2020 by perkie1968

[Melgaypet]

6 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Again, it would depend who had done it.  Eh, who am I kidding, if someone shot Sonny, I would be throwing them a parade, unless he didn't die at which point I'd smack whoever in the head for not getting the job done right!!

Imagine my fury at Ryan's unforgivable failure to kill Carly. The man truly is evil.

[perkie1968]

7 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I hate that Monica is the only one losing something over this while Carly, who instigated the whole thing, escapes punishment

Oh, I absolutely agree here.  Carly and all the Corinthi always come out smelling like roses.  

 

7 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It also doesn't help that Cyrus is doing this, and not because he gives a crap about Monica and Bobbie doing anything unethical, but because he wants to put people in place who'll do unethical things on his behalf.

And again, the story isn't about Monica and Bobbie (but mostly Carly) doing a bad thing, the story becomes about the big bad drug dealer.  The fact that so many hospital personel are basically praising what Monica/Bobbie/Carly did that day isn't about thier moral character so much as it's about how much the Corinthi must win at all cost.  I mean, the writers had Liz find Nelle, frozen half to death on the roof with the door locked and she's still a supporter.  It's like no one can be allowed to have a differing opinion.  the only one who was every allowed to have one was Taggert and they have even him bestowing wonders on CarSaSon.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

7 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Im of two minds on this and its mostly because of the way Chloe played it.  If my memory is correct and it could be wrong, when Nelle first shows up at the hospital, she's clearly worried about Wylie.  To me, that's what Chloe was conveying.   She doesn't understand the surgery, doesn't understand the rush, doesn't understand why they aren't getting her a second opinion.  Carly wasn't at the hospital yet (I don't think), it was Millow and Monica.  Millow were busy being mean girl bitches and Monica was being dismissive.  When Carly does show up, then it turns into a Carly vs Nelle and is no longer about Wylie but about one upmanship.  At that point Chloe's showing the other side of Nelle, the vindictive biatch who's going to say up if Carly says down, come hell or high water.  For me there is always two sides to Chloe's portrayal of Nelle and depending on which one we get on any given day, decides how I'm going to react to her actions.  

Again, it would depend who had done it.  Eh, who am I kidding, if someone shot Sonny, I would be throwing them a parade, unless he didn't die at which point I'd smack whoever in the head for not getting the job done right!!  

I've never been that impressed with CL's acting and with the way Nelle has been written, I can't give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to caring about Wylie. If she was worried at first, it seemed mostly that she was thinking about her own bad experience with surgery and thinking about her own pain and not about what Wylie specifically. I had no issue with Millow being "mean girl bitches" considering what Nelle has done to them. Yeah, Monica was dismissive but she offered to print out information for Nelle and get her a second opinion and Nelle wasn't interested.

LOL. It's really the only reason I'm mad about what Peter did the Jason. His greatest sin is not finishing the job.

[lala2]

As I saw it, Nelle just wanted some time to think about the surgery. She never outright vetoed it. She just wanted to know why it had be done that very minute. She expressed, IMO again, legitimate concerns and asked legitimate questions IIRC. No one ever took the time to explain the surgery to her or to tell her why it needed to be done that very day. It didn't. The writers chose to not say it was an emergency surgery. It could have waited a day or two. 

When baby Michael finally pulled himself away from his posse of suck-ups and spoke to Nelle privately, she shared - IMO at least - a touching story about how she still has complications from the surgery forced upon her as a child. She expressly stated her concern that Wiley would experience similar issues/problems. If Michael was at all a decent or caring person, he would have taken that moment to calm down and recognize that she was speaking and reacting from a place of fear not complete indifference to Wiley's well-being or his health. He would have gotten another second opinion - no rude Monica either - to speak to Nelle but Michael is a complete ass, so he just shrugged off her story and acted like she wanted their kid to die!

I think Carly entered the picture after that and was also equally awful to Nelle.  I disagreed w/everything that happened at that hospital, and I'm happy Monica and Bobbie were fired. They deserved to be. I only wish Carly had faced consequences for locking Nelle on that roof! 

 

2 minutes ago, lala2 said:

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by lala2

[FilmTVGeek80]

8 minutes ago, lala2 said:

If Michael was at all a decent or caring person, he would have taken that moment to calm down and recognize that she was speaking and reacting from a place of fear not complete indifference to Wiley's well-being or his health. But Michael is a complete ass, so he just shrugged off her story and acted like she wanted their kid to die!

Michael isn't a decent person because he didn't sob over Nelle's story? This is Nelle. Nelle who tried to BURN MICHAEL ALIVE and then on top of that let him think his kid was dead for over a year. Michael had every right to treat Nelle like shit and think the worst of her.

IMO Nelle was reacting from a place of selfishness. She couldn't put aside what had happened to her when she was a kid to think about what was best for Wylie. This is the same woman who after kidnapping Wylie spent not a single second holding her kid and just being grateful about the potential future she could have with her kid. Instead, she spent that whole time listing her grievances and about how happy she was that she "won" against Carly. 

Quote

As I saw it, Nelle just wanted some time to think about the surgery. She never outright vetoed it. She just wanted to know why it had be done that very minute. She expressed, IMO again, legitimate concerns and asked legitimate questions IIRC. No one ever took the time to explain the surgery to her or to tell her why it needed to be done that very day. It didn't. The writers chose to not say it was an emergency surgery. It could have waited a day or two. 

Again, Monica offered to print out information for her and offered to get her a second opinion and Nelle didn't care. I will agree the surgery could have waited a day or two but there is no way Nelle was changing her mind when she knew it was what Carly wanted.

Edited September 13, 2020 by FilmTVGeek80

[dubbel zout]

Nelle was still Wiley's mother at that point. She had every right to want to know more about his surgery, regardless of what she'd done in the past to anyone.

[FilmTVGeek80]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

Nelle was still Wiley's mother at that point. She had every right to want to know more about his surgery, regardless of what she'd done in the past to anyone.

She had every right to information what she didn't have any right to was any of them treating her like they gave a shit about her. You have to earn respect to get it and Nelle in no way earned it. 

[lala2]

5 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Michael isn't a decent person because he didn't sob over Nelle's story? This is Nelle. Nelle who tried to BURN MICHAEL ALIVE and then on top of that let him think his kid was dead for over a year. Michael had every right to treat Nelle like shit and think the worst of her.

IMO Nelle was reacting from a place of selfishness. She couldn't put aside what had happened to her when she was a kid to think about what was best for Wylie. This is the same woman who after kidnapping Wylie spent not a single second holding her kid and just being grateful about the potential future she could have with her kid. Instead, she spent that whole time listing her grievances and about how happy she was that she "won" against Carly. 

Again, Monica offered to print out information for her and offered to get her a second opinion and Nelle didn't care. I will agree the surgery could have waited a day or two but there is no way Nelle was changing her mind when she knew it was what Carly wanted.

Yes, that's right. He was not a decent person b/c Nelle was being vulnerable and sincere w/him in that moment. But he couldn't look past his hatred of her to see that. He didn't care at all about what she said and acted like she wanted their kid to die when that couldn't be further from the truth. 

I also disagree that Nelle was being selfish. She was concerned about the surgery and wanted to know if it absolutely had to be done. I don't see how or why she should be expected to separate the trauma of the surgery foisted upon her as a child from Wiley's surgery. That was a traumatic experience for her, so I completely understand why she wasn't gung-ho for her very small child to undergo the knife.  IMO, if they had bothered to get a professional doctor that CARED about her and treated her like a parent instead of a piece of trash, she may have consented to the surgery. 

Monica was awful w/Nelle. She didn't pull her aside or speak to her privately. She just acted like Nelle should consent b/c Monica told her to. Monica was wholly unprof'l, and that's why she's been fired and was being sued. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 minute ago, lala2 said:

Yes, that's right. He was not a decent person b/c Nelle was being vulnerable and sincere w/him in that moment. But he couldn't look past his hatred of her to see that. He didn't care at all about what she said and acted like she wanted their kid to die when that couldn't be further from the truth. 

I also disagree that Nelle was being selfish. She was concerned about the surgery and wanted to know if it absolutely had to be done. I don't see how or why she should be expected to separate the trauma of the surgery foisted upon her as a child from Wiley's surgery. That was a traumatic experience for her, so I completely understand why she wasn't gung-ho for her very small child to undergo the knife.  IMO, if they had bothered to get a professional doctor that CARED about her and treated her like a parent instead of a piece of trash, she may have consented to the surgery. 

Monica was awful w/Nelle. She didn't pull her aside or speak to her privately. She just acted like Nelle should consent b/c Monica told her to. Monica was wholly unprof'l, and that's why she's been fired and was being sued. 

Nelle didn't deserve decency from Michael just because for one second she was supposedly being vulnerable. Michael fell for Nelle's sob stories time after time after time and all it earned him was almost being murdered by her and thinking his child was dead. Maybe if Nelle was a decent person, and wanted to be treated decently, she would have pretended to have remorse for her actions. If someone did to me what Nelle did to Michael, she'd be lucky I didn't spit in her face every time she was within spitting distance let alone caring about that person's feelings.

I'm not sure what in Nelle's history or in her writing that suggests she would have relented given time. A doctor could have pretended to care but knowing that Carly wanted the surgery would have superseded everything for Nelle.

Monica wasn't fired for being unprofessional to Nelle. Hell, she wasn't even fired for whatever her part in was in Carly's forgery. She was fired because Cyrus needs her out of the way. My only consolation is she'll probably be reinstated once this Cyrus storyline winds down.

[lala2]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Elizabeth is special because she is a legacy character - the granddaughter of Audrey and Steve, central characters of the Show when it started.  She has grown up in Port Charles since age 14/15 and has connections to many other characters, past and present, through her history, her job as a nurse, and her sons. In fact, she is the only character still played by the original actress who was a teenage participant in the Nurse's Ball in the '90s who is still active in it every year. I feel he is undeserving of Elizabeth's love because he is an obsessive who shows that he doesn't respect others. Even if you hand-wave away what he did "because of the tumor," he is guilty of stalking (ex.:hiding in the backseat of Elizabeth's car when he was determined to date her), taunting Jason about his closeness to Jake, kidnapping Tom and locking him up with a shock collar in the name of "protecting Elizabeth" and then lying to her about it, screaming "Who cares about Sam?!" who was his victim when Elizabeth brought up something she said, dissing art therapy as a job that's beneath him, jealousy of her talking to a colleague (Dr. Munroe), begging Elizabeth not to dump him because "I need you; you make me better" and more.  I see him being an awful long-term role model for the boys and a partner who will act like a child whenever he doesn't get what he wants, for the rest of her life.  (His little protest/tantrum during the Nurse's Ball that Nikolas didn't put "Baldwin" in the scholarship named for Elizabeth is a recent example. The horror!) Sure he loves her, but not in a healthy way. There are have been days in the years since they got together when I think it would make Franco happy to hang a big sign on Elizabeth that says, "Property/significant other of Franco Baldwin."

Elizabeth got together with him when she wanted Ric to leave her alone and when she was depressed that Jakeson/Drew and Sam got together. There is a scene where she is sad after Sabrina was murdered;she laments to him about feeling alone due to loss of friends over the years. He says something like "You have me." This was not a situation where she "fell in love" because he was this great catch and he added to her already awesome life.  The Elizabeth who married GV's Lucky would never have settled for someone like Franco - a guy who once kidnapped her newborn son - or married him through the bars of a jail cell. 

I completely disagree that what other people think of Elizabeth's marriage to Franco doesn't matter, because she has three sons in school. Cam got into a fight with a classmate for trash talking his family. (He acknowledged that both the teachers and students thought Franco was guilty of murder.) Cam was just lucky he didn't get seriously hurt.  Kids/teenagers are known for being cruel and impulsive.  I kinda think it's inevitable that Franco will do something stupid and/or dangerous in the future and the kids will face backlash in school as a result. 

The fact that Franco appeals to no other woman in Port Charles, except maybe his ex-lover Ava, definitely does not mean that Elizabeth fell in love with a great man.  He had a great moment in sacrificing himself to save Cam, but one moment does not erase an unhealthy trajectory. (I don't count using himself as bait to lure out Ryan because that was Jordan's idea that he agreed to.)  Honestly, I still wish she and Dr. Matt Hunter had become a couple (I never understood what he saw in Maxie, ugh).

All I can say is post-tumor, Franco has been - in my eyes - your standard gray soap character. He's not all good, and he's not all bad. I never understood all the hoopla over him locking up that rapist in a cage or his jealousy.  He's a soap character.  I'd rather watch Franco than boring as dirt Michael. Franco - at least - has acknowledged flaws.  The man is not perfect, but he's trying to be a better person for himself, Liz, and their boys. It works for me. 

We will have to agree to disagree on Elizabeth's self-esteem. I honestly do not see the character as having any self-esteem issues. She's with Franco b/c she wants to be w/him, not b/c she wants to punish herself or thinks she doesn't deserve more. It's not like they immediately got together or anything. It took a minute for her to admit she liked him. He has changed the most for her. She hasn't changed for him. 

Again, she decided to marry a former serial killer. She should expect some complications. The good thing is Franco hadn't started killing again, and Cam isn't having any more problems in school. 

Well, Liz must think he's a great man, or she wouldn't be w/him. 

8 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Nelle didn't deserve decency from Michael just because for one second she was supposedly being vulnerable.

I think she deserved decency since Michael's goal was to get her to consent to the surgery. You don't achieve that by screaming at the girl and treating her like trash. 

I don't know. I'm a lawyer. I do a lot of negotiating w/opposing parties, so I was just thinking of the best way to achieve one's goals. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

7 minutes ago, lala2 said:

I think she deserved decency since Michael's goal was to get her to consent to the surgery. You don't achieve that by screaming at the girl and treating her like trash. 

I don't know. I'm a lawyer. I do a lot of negotiating w/opposing parties, so I was just thinking of the best way to achieve one's goals. 

In that way, I do agree it would have been smarter to sweet talk her but beyond that, I don't think Michael needed to be kind to her. It doesn't make him not decent to treat the person who tried to murder him like he can't stand her.

[TeeVee329]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I don't have a problem with her voicing contempt for drug dealing, because drug dealers shot up her ex-husband and left him for dead at the docks.  JJ's Lucky worked for the PCPD and was investigating drug dealing and drugs stolen from GH at the time. As a nurse, I'm sure she also sees her fair share of overdoses. 

She wasn't voicing contempt about drug dealers, Liz was voicing contempt with Britt for being associated, however loosely, with a criminal element, which again, hit man baby daddies and SERIAL KILLER husbands, Liz.

It's not a Liz issue, really, it's a "General Hospital" issue.  Britt is no saint, obviously, but the level of scorn given what some of these folks have gotten into and/or signed off on from their spouses and friends is insane.

Edited September 13, 2020 by TeeVee329

[lala2]

18 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

In that way, I do agree it would have been smarter to sweet talk her but beyond that, I don't think Michael needed to be kind to her. It doesn't make him not decent to treat the person who tried to murder him like he can't stand her.

To me, there is nothing wrong w/being kind to someone.

Again, I felt Nelle was being sincere and vulnerable w/him and explaining why she wasn't on board w/the surgery unless it was absolutely necessary. I would have loved to have seen Michael react kindly towards her instead of just dismissing her concerns. I also think it would have been good to see some layers to the Michael/Nelle relationship and not make it so black and white, but that's just me.  

[ouinason]

I feel like the difference between the Ryan situation and the Nelle situation is that with Jordan, it was a literal life and death, now or never moment.  She was going to die, the end.  Willey would have been fine to wait a little while and give time to coddle Nelle into cooperation.  The show made a big mistake by not having his surgery be emergency or even urgent if they wanted everyone to side with Bobbie and Monica's decision.

[ffwbe]

6 minutes ago, ouinason said:

I feel like the difference between the Ryan situation and the Nelle situation is that with Jordan, it was a literal life and death, now or never moment.  She was going to die, the end.  Willey would have been fine to wait a little while and give time to coddle Nelle into cooperation.  The show made a big mistake by not having his surgery be emergency or even urgent if they wanted everyone to side with Bobbie and Monica's decision.

I think the problem is that the show thinks we should automatically agree with the Corinthii so they don’t bother to even make them reasonable. 

[dubbel zout]

8 minutes ago, ouinason said:

The show made a big mistake by not having his surgery be emergency or even urgent if they wanted everyone to side with Bobbie and Monica's decision.

I still would have hated their behavior (and thought getting fired was justified), but the surgery being an actual emergency would have made their actions more understandable. And it would have the bonus (in the writers' eyes) of vilifying Nelle that much more. "The monster wouldn't give consent for her child to have surgery he needed immediately!" Everyone in town hates her anyway, so it's not as it would make a difference there.

2 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I think the problem is that the show thinks we should automatically agree with the Corinthii so they don’t bother to even make them reasonable. 

Ultimately, this is the biggest problem with the entire show.

[Gam2]

It has occurred to me that the reason Monica and Bobbie have been fired from GH is that they’ve gotten too old to carry their previous characters to provide any kind of interest/caring/story line with viewers. I know that’s a legal issue now but the past few years, a number of us have commented on how out of step they’ve been with their dialogues and physicality. Was this Cyrus character just an easy out for TPTB?

[absnow54]

20 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

It has occurred to me that the reason Monica and Bobbie have been fired from GH is that they’ve gotten too old to carry their previous characters to provide any kind of interest/caring/story line with viewers. I know that’s a legal issue now but the past few years, a number of us have commented on how out of step they’ve been with their dialogues and physicality. Was this Cyrus character just an easy out for TPTB?

Probably not, as I doubt their firing will be permanent. 

[MarciNJ]

On 9/8/2020 at 3:32 PM, dubbel zout said:

Well, I have a shriveled husk where my heart should be, because Olivia's sobbing to Dante did nothing for me.

I get why Dante wouldn't see her; what I don't get, is why he wouldn't talk to her thru the door.  

[statsgirl]

I see two fundamental differences between Ryan's situation and Nelle's. First, Jordan needed a kidney immediately or she would die. With Wylie, there was no immediacy; he needed the operation but it would have been okay to wait for a while, it was Michael's inexperience that caused him to rush Wylie to the hospital and then throw fits that he needed the operation right away. In fact, when Ryan, a medical doctor, had him, there was no rush to do the surgery.  There would have been time to properly explain the situation to Nelle if everyone hadn't immediately dismissed her.

Second, IIRC Ryan had refused to donate his kidney. Nelle hadn't refused the operation, she just wanted to be sure that it was the right treatment.

4 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

As for Nelle, I don't think she cared so much about caution. I think she just didn't want the surgery because it was what Carly wanted plus she was too hung up on what happened to her when she was a kid.

Nelle said that she was still suffering effects from her surgery to give her kidney to Carly and she didn't want to have Wylie have an unnecessary surgery and have that kind of pain too.  And honestly, I think most parents would feel the same.

Entirely independent of the fact that this is Nelle, Monica should have taken the time to do her ethical due diligence.  Every since Tuskegee, informed consent has been a pillar of medical treatment. It should be ingrained in her bones.

One thing that I hate about the Corinthos group is the writing that ruins other, ostensibly good people for them.  As well as Monica needing to take the time to answer Nelle's questions and not covering up Carly's and Bobbie's crimes, Elizabeth should have been appalled at Carly locking Nelle on the roof -- she could have killed her but Carly counts it as a win.  Elizabeth should in no way be supporting Carly much less cheering her on.

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Monica wasn't fired for being unprofessional to Nelle. Hell, she wasn't even fired for whatever her part in was in Carly's forgery. She was fired because Cyrus needs her out of the way. My only consolation is she'll probably be reinstated once this Cyrus storyline winds down.

In terms of the "Poor Sonny and His Poor Family" that the show writes, yes, is out of the way so that we'll hate Cyrus even more and feel sorry for Sonny.

But in terms of the storyline itself, Monica was fired for cause.  She did something that left the hospital open for a massive suit and a lot of money lost.

21 hours ago, nilyank said:

Joss got the heirloom because it was Joss' fantasy not Mike's. Of course, she would be the star in her own little fantasies.

It makes sense that she would be the star of her fantasies. But she could have directed it to Adela's real granddaughters instead of keeping it for herself when she's got so much already.  She really is Carly's daughter.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I see two fundamental differences between Ryan's situation and Nelle's. First, Jordan needed a kidney immediately or she would die. With Wylie, there was no immediacy; he needed the operation but it would have been okay to wait for a while, it was Michael's inexperience that caused him to rush Wylie to the hospital and then throw fits that he needed the operation right away. In fact, when Ryan, a medical doctor, had him, there was no rush to do the surgery.  There would have been time to properly explain the situation to Nelle if everyone hadn't immediately dismissed her.

Second, IIRC Ryan had refused to donate his kidney. Nelle hadn't refused the operation, she just wanted to be sure that it was the right treatment.

Forging Nelle's signature was wrong. But, what happened with Ryan was more wrong.  Organ theft is much worse than performing surgery that only one parent agreed to (though it was still wrong, they should have waited until they could either convince Nell or get a court order).  

But, either way, that hospital has been out of control for a while.

[MarciNJ]

On 9/10/2020 at 1:21 PM, perkie1968 said:

 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 3:35 PM, perkie1968 said:

I love Max Gail, but can Mike die already.  It's just being dragged out too long.  Also, Joss is not his granddaughter so stop calling him grandpa.  I know that she's Sonny's stepdaughter but that bugs me. 

whats up with Joss saying that Mike was the only grandfather she ever knew?  How long ago did John Jax die?

[Katy M]

17 minutes ago, MarciNJ said:

hats up with Joss saying that Mike was the only grandfather she ever knew?  How long ago did John Jax die?

According to GH Wiki, 2003, which was either before Joss was born or a year after she was born depending on if you go by actual birthdate or retconned.  Either way, she wouldn't remember him.

[ffwbe]

47 minutes ago, Katy M said:

According to GH Wiki, 2003, which was either before Joss was born or a year after she was born depending on if you go by actual birthdate or retconned.  Either way, she wouldn't remember him.

I know I was supposed to find that touching but I didn’t. Not only because this was the first time she has referred to him as such but this is a soap. Most of these characters have lost their grandparents and even parents at an early age.
 

I feel like they keep trying to make Josslyn’s life seem sad when she’s been comparatively blessed by a large family and extended family who are always there for her. I just find myself compassing her to someone like Liz who had absent parents for most of her life or other characters who had a truly tragic childhood. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, MarciNJ said:

whats up with Joss saying that Mike was the only grandfather she ever knew?  How long ago did John Jax die?

John Jacks died of a broken heart/stupidity when he couldn't obtain the Dead Man's Hand that Sam McCall wanted to keep for herself. Sam was involved with Jax at the time so quite a few years before he married Carly and they had Joss. Speaking of which, there is not one Sam based story that doesn't end being the stupidest thing on the show. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

they should have waited until they could either convince Nell or get a court order

That's what I forgot to say.

It was elective surgery, not immediate surgery. If they failed to convine Nelle, Michael could have easily have got a court order seeing as Diane is the most brilliant lawyer evah.

There was absolutely no need for those shenanigans. It's like when Sonny yells at someone and we're supposed to be impressed.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, MarciNJ said:

I get why Dante wouldn't see her; what I don't get, is why he wouldn't talk to her thru the door.  

Probably because he knew he would crack and let her in his room. It was easier to have no contact whatsoever.

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

it was Michael's inexperience that caused him to rush Wylie to the hospital and then throw fits that he needed the operation right away.

It was also Quartermaine/Corinthos entitlement. 

11 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I feel like they keep trying to make Josslyn’s life seem sad

You people are heartless! She lost the love of her life just over a year ago! Her life is TRAGIC.

[Bringonthedrama]

On 9/13/2020 at 5:52 PM, lala2 said:

All I can say is post-tumor, Franco has been - in my eyes - your standard gray soap character. He's not all good, and he's not all bad. I never understood all the hoopla over him locking up that rapist in a cage or his jealousy.  He's a soap character.  I'd rather watch Franco than boring as dirt Michael. Franco - at least - has acknowledged flaws.  The man is not perfect, but he's trying to be a better person for himself, Liz, and their boys. It works for me. 

We will have to agree to disagree on Elizabeth's self-esteem. I honestly do not see the character as having any self-esteem issues. She's with Franco b/c she wants to be w/him, not b/c she wants to punish herself or thinks she doesn't deserve more. It's not like they immediately got together or anything. It took a minute for her to admit she liked him. He has changed the most for her. She hasn't changed for him. 

Again, she decided to marry a former serial killer. She should expect some complications. The good thing is Franco hadn't started killing again, and Cam isn't having any more problems in school. 

Well, Liz must think he's a great man, or she wouldn't be w/him. 

 

I might agree with you about the Show's intentions for him to be a gray soap character, if not for the fact that this actor was brought back as another character after previously being on the Show as a character from OLTL. I think it's very clear the Show intended to force the audience to accept an actor they liked from another show, by pairing him with Herbst's legacy character Elizabeth after pairing him with Carly and also Nina didn't work out.  The hoopla over what he did to Tom is because it is very sick thinking to decide to kidnap a man, lock him in a cage and put a shock collar on him after he has gotten out of prison and is going about life. He was not stalking or threatening Elizabeth.  As for the jealousy - I can maybe understand him being jealous when she and Drew hugged and had close conversations since he once lived with her and was going to be a stepfather to her kids. But he has also been jealous of any other man she hugged or sat/stood close to except for Lucas (because he knows Lucas is gay). Elizabeth is a nurse at GH as a well as a mother, which means she is going to talk to male patients, doctors, nurses and the fathers of other children. I was appalled when he sulked to Kiki that Dr. Munroe (Elizabeth's colleague, who at the time thought he was Charlotte's father) is "talking to my girlfriend." Franco acknowledges that he is flawed, but he also acts like it's offensive that Sam, Jason or anyone else still has a problem with him because he used to kill people.

If you've paid attention to Elizabeth long-term (I guess you haven't), you know she has self-esteem issues dating back to her teenage years with Sarah and abandonment by her parents. I absolutely think part of the reason she married Franco is because she thinks he'll never leave her like her parents did.  The self-esteem problem has been obvious at various points in her relationships, and definitely popped up when Franco said she's not an artist. That is also something I hate about RH's "Franco" being forced on the audience. Elizabeth could have had more storylines involving art in some way. Instead, she gets to be a supporting player in storylines focused on a former serial killer "artist" - and the set that used to be Elizabeth's art studio got turned into Franco's.

"Good news" that Franco isn't killing again is a really low bar for him to be an appealing character or to show that their relationship is healthy. I don't think of it in comparison to Jason because Elizabeth was never in a years-long public romantic relationship with him. Cam is going to graduate from high school soon, but his little brothers will be in elementary and high school in Port Charles for years to come so it's entire possibly that they could get hurt as an indirect result of Franco's actions/decisions in the future. 

I'll agree to disagree with you about Elizabeth, esp. the part about her thinking she is with a great man. She wants all of Port Charles to think she has good judgement and isn't some poor duped woman, which is why she's been so determined that Jason and others should believe Franco is a good man.  She more or less acknowledged she can't trust Franco to think about the future and consequences, when he lied to her and worked with Jordan to lure out Ryan. She flat out said well I still love Franco and my boys accept him, so he can come home (without the two of them resolving the very real trust problems).  

Edited September 15, 2020 by Bringonthedrama

[TheMediaHo]

Josslyn’s full name is Josslyn John Jacks, after her grandfather — at SheBeast’s suggestion. She was a toddler when Corbin Bernson played Carly’s biodad, but he was murdered within a year or so of coming to the Chuckles, IIRC. So Mike is really the only grandfather she’s ever known, but she didn’t call him Grandpa until last week.

[dubbel zout]

Ugh, Sonny is so terrible! Ava makes a reasonable offer to take care of Avery and of course Sonny thinks there are nefarious motives. Even if there are, we all know Avery will go back to his place. Mike's death is not making Sonny a better person, that's for sure.

Sasha's dress was absolutely hideous.

The honeymoon suite in that hotel was really ugly. Any tips Olivia picks up should be what not to do.

[TeeVee329]

I guess I'm supposed to be just OUTRAGED that Britt's considering dumping a SERIAL KILLER from the hospital payroll, but...

* checks notes *

Nope!  Also, Franco trying to act like Britt's "transgressions" are in the same league as his.  Not quite, guy who turned peoples' bodies into art.

[lala2]

I am sure people will disagree, but I just don't have any sympathy for Brook Lynn, and I really wish Ned would not bother w/her. I'm not saying write her off completely, but I'm sick of seeing him beg her to forgive him. Tell her she knows your number and how to reach out if she needs you and then let it go. I really hope he does that b/c IMO, she is way too old to be behaving this way. Maybe if she were 20 and didn't know about life, I'd buy her anger at her dad, but she is in the 30+ club. Yes, her dad was upset (and rightfully so) about the shares, but when she was injured, it puts things in perspective for him. How does she not get that? Is she literally 5? Grow up, Brook Lynn! 

Did anyone else think Nik sent a fake text to Franco? I hope not. Friz need the commissions he can make. I'm still mad they suddenly made him broke to serve this story, but that's GH for you! 

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I guess I'm supposed to be just OUTRAGED that Britt's considering dumping a SERIAL KILLER from the hospital payroll, but...

* checks notes *

Nope!  Also, Franco trying to act like Britt's "transgressions" are in the same league as his.  Not quite, guy who turned peoples' bodies into art.

I'm surprised only because Britt and Franco did legit bond over Dr. O. And he wasn't wrong that she doesn't have a right to bully the GH staff.

32 minutes ago, lala2 said:

Did anyone else think Nik sent a fake text to Franco? I hope not.

Same here. I hate that Nik keeps interfering in Elizabeth's life. It's gross.

[lala2]

4 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I might agree with you about the Show's intentions for him to be a gray soap character, if not for the fact that this actor was brought back as another character after previously being on the Show as a character from OLTL. I think it's very clear the Show intended to force the audience to accept an actor they liked from another show, by pairing him with Herbst's leegacy character Elizabeth after pairing him with Carly and also Nina didn't work out.  The hoopla over him what he did to Tom is it is very sick thinking to decide to kidnap a man, lock him in a cage and put a shock collar on him after he has gotten out of prison and is going about life. He was not stalking or threatening Elizabeth.  As for the jealousy - I can maybe understand him being jealous when she and Drew hugged and had close conversations since he once lived with her and was going to be a stepfather to her kids. But he has also been jealous of any other man she hugged or sat/stood close to except for Lucas (because he knows Lucas is gay). Elizabeth is a nurse at GH as a well as a mother, which means she is going to talk to male patients, doctors, nurses and the fathers of other children. I was appalled when he sulked to Kiki that Dr. Munroe (Elizabeth's colleague, who at the time thought he was Charlotte's father) is "talking to my girlfriend." Franco acknowledges that he is flawed, but he also acts like it's offensive that Sam, Jason or anyone else still has a problem with him because he used to kill people.

If you've paid attention to Elizabeth long-term (I guess you haven't), you know she has self-esteem issues dating back to her teenage years with Sarah and abandonment by her parents. I absolutely think part of the reason she married Franco is because she thinks he'll never leave her like her parents did.  The self-esteem problem has been obvious at various points in her relationships, and definitely popped up when Franco said she's not an artist. That is also something I hate about RH's "Franco" being forced on the audience. Elizabeth could have had more storylines involving art in some way. Instead, she gets to be a supporting player in storylines focused on a former serial killer "artist" - and the set that used to be Elizabeth's art studio got turned into Franco's.

"Good news" that Franco isn't killing again is a really low bar for him to be an appealing character or to show that their relationship is healthy. I don't think of it in comparison to Jason because Elizabeth was never in a years-long public romantic relationship with him. Cam is going to graduate from high school soon, but his little brothers will be in elementary and high school in Port Charles for years to come so it's entire possibly that they could get hurt as an indirect result of Franco's actions/decisions in the future. 

I'll agree to disagree with you about Elizabeth, esp. the part about her thinking she is with a great man. She wants all of Port Charles to think she has good judgement and isn't some poor duped woman, which is why she's been so determined that Jason and others should believe Franco is a good man.  She more or less acknowledged she can't trust Franco to think about the future and consequences, when he lied to her and worked with Jordan to lure out Kevin. She flat out said well I still love Franco and my boys accept him, so he can come home (without the two of them resolving the very real trust problems).  

I think you give the show far more credit. Ron C. really wanted Todd Manning on GH. He was very upset when he had to pull Todd, Starr, and John McBain for the short-lived OLTL online series. When PP failed, it was my understanding he wanted those actors back and wanted characters that couldn't be snatched back from him so he came up w/Kiki and Silas. I'm not sure why he chose Franco for Roger, but he did and then he went right back to the RoHo/LW pairing b/c they generated massive amts of heat as Todd and Carly. I loved Cranco. Then, they did Frina - another pairing I loved. According to Jelly, when they got on board, they thought Frina was too isolated and broke them up. From what I understand, Frina had a lot of fans as did Roger's Franco so, I don't think it was a matter of making viewers like him. By then, IMO, you either liked Franco or you didn't. Being w/Liz wasn't going to change anyone's minds. I've always liked Franco, so it was fine for me. You love Liz but hate Franco and still hate him so if that was the plan - it didn't work for you and plenty of others who just hate Franco. That said, we will never know the real story behind any of it. 

I've watched off and on since Liz has been introduced, and I still say she doesn't have self-esteem issues. Maybe she had them after the rape . . . I'm not sure. I hated LL2 and that "permanent lock," train car story so maybe she had issues then. I did enjoy her w/Ric and GV's Lucky. From that point, I saw no self-esteem issues w/her. She's a pretty confident character, IMO. She's had moments where she's felt down on herself, but I've never gotten the impression that she thinks she undeserving of a decent man or anything. I don't get that vibe from the character. For the most part, I don't see low self-esteem as an issue for her. I see/saw that w/Gia, Ava, teen Kristina, teen Lulu, Sam, the model who's doing coke b/c of Michael (forgot her name . . . . Shawna . . .  Shana .  . . . lol) . . .  but not Liz. Again, that's just my take on her.  

You were saying Franco is bad for them b/c Cameron was getting into fights when Franco was arrested again. I was simply saying he hadn't started killing again, so that was a good thing. He was working w/the police to capture another serial killer. The truth came out, so Cameron hasn't been in any more fights. Franco is not murdering anyone anymore. Can her other kids get into fights because of him? Possibly. She will just have to handle that. I guess I don't know why Jason's murdering and being a mobster is not also a cause for concern  . . . but we can agree to disagree. 

My point is if she's happy with him, and her kids are happy w/him, she shouldn't care what the rest of PC thinks. She shouldn't live her life worried about the opinions of others. Who cares if PC thinks she has poor judgment? 

[YaddaYadda]

I find it gross that these fantasies that Joss and Michael had about grandpa Mike were all about him praising them to high heaven. Joss is the bestest granddaughter, the bestest student and valedictorian, the bestest new wife, the bestest mom to be. Michael is the bestest father evah while Mike is still learning to be a father. Really?

Who's next on the list for Mike to praise as a paragon? Can he just die with what's left of his dignity?

It's glaringly obvious that Britt will be the biggest loser in this storyline. And can we not talk about secrets in the hallways? I am tired of how bitchy the hospital staff is and how they gang up on everyone they hold a grudge against. If you're not happy, take it up with your union.

 

[Blackie]

Robert and Olivia... I can get behind that.

 

When Nina was talking about Kiki and Silas I was getting all confused because now we have Cyrus.

[Ambrosefolly]

5 hours ago, lala2 said:

I am sure people will disagree, but I just don't have any sympathy for Brook Lynn, and I really wish Ned would not bother w/her. I'm not saying write her off completely, but I'm sick of seeing him beg her to forgive him. Tell her she knows your number and how to reach out if she needs you and then let it go. I really hope he does that b/c IMO, she is way too old to be behaving this way. Maybe if she were 20 and didn't know about life, I'd buy her anger at her dad, but she is in the 30+ club. Yes, her dad was upset (and rightfully so) about the shares, but when she was injured, it puts things in perspective for him. How does she not get that? Is she literally 5? Grow up, Brook Lynn! 

Did anyone else think Nik sent a fake text to Franco? I hope not. Friz need the commissions he can make. I'm still mad they suddenly made him broke to serve this story, but that's GH for you! 

Maybe Brook Lynn can too have some bullshit tumor discovered, just like Franco, to excuse her acting immature. Too bad that Nelle "died" and BL couldn't kidnap, lock her in a dog crate and force her to sign away her maternal rights. Of course, she would have a better reason for doing that to Nelle, than Franco had for imprisoning Tom. 

5 hours ago, lala2 said:

I think you give the show far more credit. Ron C. really wanted Todd Manning on GH. He was very upset when he had to pull Todd, Starr, and John McBain for the short-lived OLTL online series. When PP failed, it was my understanding he wanted those actors back and wanted characters that couldn't be snatched back from him so he came up w/Kiki and Silas. I'm not sure why he chose Franco for Roger, but he did and then he went right back to the RoHo/LW pairing b/c they generated massive amts of heat as Todd and Carly. I loved Cranco. Then, they did Frina - another pairing I loved. According to Jelly, when they got on board, they thought Frina was too isolated and broke them up. From what I understand, Frina had a lot of fans as did Roger's Franco so, I don't think it was a matter of making viewers like him. By then, IMO, you either liked Franco or you didn't. Being w/Liz wasn't going to change anyone's minds. I've always liked Franco, so it was fine for me. You love Liz but hate Franco and still hate him so if that was the plan - it didn't work for you and plenty of others who just hate Franco. That said, we will never know the real story behind any of it. 

I've watched off and on since Liz has been introduced, and I still say she doesn't have self-esteem issues. Maybe she had them after the rape . . . I'm not sure. I hated LL2 and that "permanent lock," train car story so maybe she had issues then. I did enjoy her w/Ric and GV's Lucky. From that point, I saw no self-esteem issues w/her. She's a pretty confident character, IMO. She's had moments where she's felt down on herself, but I've never gotten the impression that she thinks she undeserving of a decent man or anything. I don't get that vibe from the character. For the most part, I don't see low self-esteem as an issue for her. I see/saw that w/Gia, Ava, teen Kristina, teen Lulu, Sam, the model who's doing coke b/c of Michael (forgot her name . . . . Shawna . . .  Shana .  . . . lol) . . .  but not Liz. Again, that's just my take on her.  

You were saying Franco is bad for them b/c Cameron was getting into fights when Franco was arrested again. I was simply saying he hadn't started killing again, so that was a good thing. He was working w/the police to capture another serial killer. The truth came out, so Cameron hasn't been in any more fights. Franco is not murdering anyone anymore. Can her other kids get into fights because of him? Possibly. She will just have to handle that. I guess I don't know why Jason's murdering and being a mobster is not also a cause for concern  . . . but we can agree to disagree. 

My point is if she's happy with him, and her kids are happy w/him, she shouldn't care what the rest of PC thinks. She shouldn't live her life worried about the opinions of others. Who cares if PC thinks she has poor judgment? 

The show never gives Liz and BH a fair shake, even 20 years of solid work. She will be fine for awhile, working as a nurse and being a mother, then they will have her lose her shit and have an affair with Lucky's brother Nik behind his back and after accepting Lucky'a proposal or keeping Drew's identity a secret from him (when the DNA test came back he was Jason) in order to keep him away from Sam. I remember in the aftermath of Nik/Liz affair coming out when Liz was begging Lucky for another chance and Lucky said something along the lines that she needed to fix what ever causes her to act out this way, and that was the only worthwhile scene in that seedy storyline. The Tom Returns storyline should have been that for her, but TPTB (while there were two women head writers no less) decided to have Franco front and center for that storyline with Liz playing second fiddle. Her "happiness" with Franco is the TPTB desire to make Franco work, so the show won't examine much of anything about the relationship and make everyone just fine with her dating and then marrying him. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Ambrosefolly

[Cheyanne11]

51 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Who's next on the list for Mike to praise as a paragon? Can he just die with what's left of his dignity?

Can't wait for Sonny's fantasies where Mike thanks Sonny for screaming "YOU LEFT ME AND MY MOTHER AND THEN DEKE CAME ALONG AND BEAT US BOTH--I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU!" at him for the better part of the '90's, as it made him a better person.

[gator12]

13 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Maybe Brook Lynn can to have some bullshit tumor discovered, just like Franco, to excuse her acting immature. Too bad that Nelle "died" and BL couldn't kidnap, look her in a dog crate and force her to sign away her maternal rights. Of course, she would have a better reason for doing that to Nelle, than Franco had for imprisoning Tom. 

The show never gives Liz and BH a fair shake, even 20 years of solid work. She will be fine for awhile, working as a nurse and being a mother, then they will have her lose her shit and have an affair with Lucky's brother Nik behind his back and after accepting Lucky'a proposal or keeping Drew's identity a secret from him (when the DNA test came back he was Jason) in order to keep him away from Sam. I remember in the aftermath of Nik/Liz affair coming out when Liz was begging Lucky for another chance and Lucky said something along the lines that she needed to fix what ever causes her to act out this way, and that was the only worthwhile scene in that seedy storyline. The Tom Returns storyline should have been that for her, but TPTB (while there were two women head writers no less) decided to have Franco front and center for that storyline with Liz playing second fiddle. Her "happiness" with Franco is the TPTB desire to make Franco work, so the show won't examine much of anything about the relationship and make everyone just fine with her dating and then marrying him. 

 

I hated the Niz story line and it made hate Lucky when he said to Liz something like you were only good in the aftermath of your rape, go back to that.  Good for JJ getting his emmy I guess. 

Hated the Drew one because Elizabeth didn't need to know about it since Nick and I forgot who else already knew, but instead of those people being the bad guy, got to have Liz be the bad one and get Sam to be in her face about it. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by gator12

[lala2]

@Ambrosefolly - Hey, you won't hear me say the writers haven't shafted Liz. Rebecca was almost fired by two different regimes - and that was long before Roger came onto the show. The writers don't seem to value her or the character. I am not sure why that is the case. 

I can only speak for myself and what I enjoy. I can also admit my biases. While I hated Valentin for what he did when he was first introduced, I had no problem w/Nikolas going after ELQ or shooting Hayden in the head.  For me, that was the most interesting Nikolas had been in years, so I had no issues w/those stories, and he wasn't "ruined" for me. I thought Liz was wrong to keep the Jake/Jason lie, and I couldn't wait for him to find out, but I didn't hate her or anything. I thought the time she hinted to Laura that Nikolas had Hayden shot so Laura shouldn't tell the truth about Jake/Jason was hilarious. Clearly, I have no issues w/characters who do bad things from time to time. I don't know. I was highly interested in the show as a whole around that time. I had more disgust for Liz during the SOS, and how she reacted to her husband's pain/medical issues than during the Jake/Jason story. 

I had no problems w/Franco reaching out to her and trying to be a friend after the fallout of the Jake/Jason thing. Yes, I like Franco, so I know that is largely why the story worked for me. What can I say? I like Friz. I like Franco. I like their family unit. I think the actors work well off each other. I don't think she's been downgraded as a character for being w/him. I don't think she's a loser b/c she loves him. I don't think he's using her. I don't think's only w/her because she makes him feel better about himself. I think the characters love each other.  I think he's been a great dad to her boys. I think he supports her. I think she may have some issues w/his past that she hasn't fully accepted, which could be a good story but that's it. I just like them! 

I am sorry you guys hate Liz's story and her relationship. I would love for the show to write a story where Franco supports her, but GH plays favorites in general and in pairings. That said, I am  sure Friz will break up one day. No soap couples last forever. Hopefully, she will then be paired w/someone y'all like so you can enjoy the pairing. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by lala2

[ouinason]

The cage story was utterly horrible, even if Franco turned out to be right about the guy.  Still super gross behavior. 

 

Franco is cracked in the head, no doubt, but I enjoy RoHo's acting with ReHe, and with BM and with WL and the other kids.  I like Stepdad Franco, and Friend to Evil Doctor Franco, and Husband Franco and Sort of Brother Franco.  I think it was stupid as shit for them to bring the actor on as a recast of a really stupid character, but I enjoy who he is on my screen in the present.  I tend to divorce the JF/Franco stuff from the RoHo/Franco stuff in my head, even though he seems perfectly willing to sort that baggage and carry it along in life.  That's probably what I like most about the character.  Unlike the Corinthi he doesn't try and ignore or paper over the seriously fucked up things he's done, and the horrible things that are still sometimes his first impulse.  He is himself.  

 

And, like with Peter, I totally understand why people don't like him even if I do.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The honeymoon suite in that hotel was really ugly. Any tips Olivia picks up should be what not to do.

Wait, Whuuuuut??????!!!!

3 hours ago, lala2 said:

I am sure people will disagree, but I just don't have any sympathy for Brook Lynn, and I really wish Ned would not bother w/her. I'm not saying write her off completely, but I'm sick of seeing him beg her to forgive him. Tell her she knows your number and how to reach out if she needs you and then let it go. I really hope he does that b/c IMO, she is way too old to be behaving this way. Maybe if she were 20 and didn't know about life, I'd buy her anger at her dad, but she is in the 30+ club. Yes, her dad was upset (and rightfully so) about the shares, but when she was injured, it puts things in perspective for him. How does she not get that? Is she literally 5? Grow up, Brook Lynn! 

Did anyone else think Nik sent a fake text to Franco? I hope not. Friz need the commissions he can make. I'm still mad they suddenly made him broke to serve this story, but that's GH for you! 

I've never had any sympathy for this twat. This character has been ruined for me since her last return when she tried to rape Dante.

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Same here. I hate that Nik keeps interfering in Elizabeth's life. It's gross.

So, same old, same old, then. Panting and going after Liz when she's not available. It's BEYOND GROSS.

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I find it gross that these fantasies that Joss and Michael had about grandpa Mike were all about him praising them to high heaven. Joss is the bestest granddaughter, the bestest student and valedictorian, the bestest new wife, the bestest mom to be. Michael is the bestest father evah while Mike is still learning to be a father. Really?

Who's next on the list for Mike to praise as a paragon? Can he just die with what's left of his dignity?

I can't even take this story line seriously, let alone these fantasies. Because Mike was a deadbeat father; a con when he first showed up; there was NEVER any loving grandparent/grandchild relationship when he was on the show after he was running Kelly's; and definitely no loving relationship with Mooby.

Not until they recast with Max Gail for this story line, all of a sudden Mooby discovers he loves Mike and they had a great relationship? PUH-LEAZE.