Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[jsbt]

18 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

I'm going to assume that the only reason Mulcahey agreed to be HW is because he was given carte blanche to write a Jason/Carly story however he wants.  We are going to get the same old Carly is Smart&Brave and Always Wins show we have always had, just with better dialogue.  I find it is better to set low expectations.  If I am wrong, then I get to be pleasantly surprised.  If I am right, then I can only hope that the Jason/Carly crapfest won't eat the entire show and Mulcahey will expend at least a little effort on improving the subplots.

Patrick Mulcahey writing Carly is not the same thing as anyone writing Carly IMO. I both hated and was fascinated by Carly in the '90s for a reason. But PM was also obsessed very specifically with Sarah Brown's performance and the Carly he created via her, and it'll be interesting to see how that carries over to now is all I'll say about that for the moment.

I don't expect the show to change overnight or for the entire paradigm of GH to change. PM had a considerable hand in crafting GH towards the mob focus it cultivated for years afterwards. But while those late '90s years had issues they also were pretty good a lot of the time, and he's an excellent writer who understands nuance in character; he wrote a nuanced and often ugly Carly, and knew when she was being ugly. That awareness is not something the show has had much of in the last decade. But we're both right that we'll have to see what happens.

Edited March 2 by jsbt

[PatsyandEddie]

Seriously speaking, thanks for all the insightful and informative posts on the BTS with the writing teams. 👏🏻

[ffwbe]

I don’t think Ava is entirely honest about not choosing sides between Nina and Sonny. Her actions all year have shown that she’s pretty firmly team Sonny. Hopefully it’s because she’s plotting but regardless, she really hasn’t been there Nina at all. 

[ComeWhatMay]

I’m not expecting miracles, but will welcome additional improvement over what I already see peeking through… 

I hated Carly in the ‘90s (the last time I was a regular viewer until now), but I could never take my eyes off of Sarah Brown. She had such talent. She had her troubles over the years and I hope she is in a good place now. 

And, yes, Frank isn’t good to everybody. The situation that occurred with Vinessa Antoine (the former Jordan) is really, really unfortunate I think in light of the extended LOAs plural and flexible arrangements I have observed for male actors on the program. Alley Mills praise of Frank in her Daytime Emmy speech has stayed with me too. You do not want that man as an enemy. Of that I feel confident. 

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

He also gave Franco to Liz because he knew Rebecca Herbst and her incredibly devoted fanbase were a safe harbor and job security for Roger Howarth, until she wasn't given the nature of the Franco character finally catching up with them BTS. This tactic has played out again since with Michael Easton.

I didn't like Lindsay Morgan on the show at all but she wouldn't be the first person Frank blew off. His passive aggression or iceman behavior is well-known going back to OLTL, as much as his generosity and kindness to others. That all said, I can critique Frank all day and night but I also can't deny that he is one of the last people on daytime (if not the last) who knows how to bring this show in on or under budget without it looking like a ghost town (check out Y&R, or DAYS by comparison to any issues GH currently has with either production value, extras or location variety) or that he and Ron saved the show from cancellation in 2012, period. I will always be grateful for those things, and for what he did for both John Ingle and Kimberly that year. There's other good things he's done in the years since, particularly the fine tribute episodes for many departed actors including Jackie. I will never say he is not capable within his skill set. I also think he's been here too long and that new blood is needed at the executive level, but I highly doubt there is any out there capable or coming. So I would settle for him getting out of the creative mix and micromanager role and instead doing what every EP should do best.

I don't quibble with Ron keeping the show under budget, which is job #1. However, I also think he had little to do with GH not being cancelled. Frons, for whatever reason, preferred the show to AMC and OLTL. I think it was bc he was more or less on the same page about the mob, though he and his wife absolutely loved Courtney with Jason, which I'm sure Guza loathed writing.  If he was looking at the books, OLTL should have been the last soap standing because it was doing better in the ratings

[jsbt]

15 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I don't quibble with Ron keeping the show under budget, which is job #1. However, I also think he had little to do with GH not being cancelled. Frons, for whatever reason, preferred the show to AMC and OLTL.

Frons begged ABC not to cancel GH along with the other two in 2011, because he adored Bob Guza. But no, Frons was out of the picture by the end of that year (and ABC's price for sparing GH in 2011 was Guza being fired). Regardless, Frons left the company in December. The show was at the mercy of the network, and it was no secret they intended to kill it in 2012-13. FV and RC got the show energized again and saved it from the axe.

[Sake614]

What got GH saved was that the network couldn’t find a viable replacement. If they could find a talk show that would garner decent ratings, they’d kill GH in a second.

[Daisy]

19 hours ago, jsbt said:

It's one thing if it's a body confidence issue, but if you don't want to wear age-appropriate clothing or have love scenes because of religious convictions, don't be on a soap opera.

but what does age-appropriate clothing even mean?  I'm not being facetious here. I am genuinely curious. As I've said beauty (and fashion) are in the eyes of the beholder. Setton and I are around the same age and i like a lot of the blouses and colours that she has.  I've always dressed older for my age mostly because i just liked how it looked on my body (Or i just liked the design or whatever). (and again - everyone was dunking on Portia's jumpsuit and i thought it looked really interesting and I thought Brook Kerr was rocking it). So - again really curious what that means to you (or anyone who agrees). 

like I said, I do agree with you on the love scene thing (though I do also agree w/the person that says that the covid issue could still be an issue) but things like clothing? even if I don't like the outfit, i'm not going to harp on people wanting to be comfortable in what they wear. (because I have to imagine everyone has a say on their wardrobe not just a few people). 

[jsbt]

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

What got GH saved was that the network couldn’t find a viable replacement. If they could find a talk show that would garner decent ratings, they’d kill GH in a second.

That's true, to a point. But it didn't stop them from killing AMC and OLTL when The Revolution and to a lesser extent The Chew were not long-term viable. Had GH stayed in the gutter they would've killed it as planned and test driven another of those failed concepts. FV and RC brought the numbers up, got an audience back and positive buzz, and the show got a new lease on life. I can critique the fuck out of a ton of what they did in those first year-plus (there were many bad stories and characters in addition to good ideas on GH in 2012) and still know the energy changed dramatically.

Edited March 3 by jsbt

[kitmerlot1213]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I will only get excited if he can undo all the damage to Anna and have her be grateful to Corinthos for being there for Robin, but that that won’t influence how she treats him like the criminal he is. But I’m not hopeful, because EVERYONE must genuflect and kiss the ring.

I listened closely to Anna when she was talking to John Cates and she is fully aware that Sonny is a criminal and she'll arrest him if the evidence presents itself.  I think her point was that Sonny has done horrible things but he isn't a sadistic killer who takes delight in harming others--he isn't all evil nor is he a blameless angel. Jagger needs to dial down his anger and concentrate on the case at hand.

Then again, Anna is and always will be my favorite soap heroine and I'll give her the benefit of the doubt--she's a smart detective who isn't afraid to take chances to catch the bad guy.  Plus I love it when she goes into badass action mode--I cheer every time she kicks the bad guy's butt :):)

[DanaK]

9 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I listened closely to Anna when she was talking to John Cates and she is fully aware that Sonny is a criminal and she'll arrest him if the evidence presents itself.  I think her point was that Sonny has done horrible things but he isn't a sadistic killer who takes delight in harming others--he isn't all evil nor is he a blameless angel. Jagger needs to dial down his anger and concentrate on the case at hand.

Then again, Anna is and always will be my favorite soap heroine and I'll give her the benefit of the doubt--she's a smart detective who isn't afraid to take chances to catch the bad guy.  Plus I love it when she goes into badass action mode--I cheer every time she kicks the bad guy's butt :):)

I’m just grateful Anna is now doing useful things again and not just sitting at home crying in her beer and feeling totally depressed

[jsbt]

I'm always happy when Anna isn't crying needlessly or spending all her time with Billy Joel/Flimsy Steve aka Valentin, the world's corniest Cassadine. But I'll be happier when she isn't wasting precious airtime making excuses for Sonny because the show always needs everyone to know that if fan favorite Anna Devane is cool with Sonny you should be too. He's been on the show for 30 years, let's stop selling.

[CeChase]

Well, good luck to Patrick trying to write that kind of nuanced material for LW.   He'll need it.  Now Cynthia, my how she will shine in the hands of a talented writer.  If she's ever given the chance. 

[lilabennet]

I don't care how nuanced he writes Carly.  He could be the soap opera equivalent of Shakespeare, Austen, Morrison and all my favorite writers rolled into one and it still wouldn't matter.  I am absolutely done with Carly.  He could give us a nuanced portrayal of her dying in a fire.  I'll be happy with that.  But only if it is dead dead, not soap opera dead.  DNA and dental record analysis performed by three independent, non-City of Port Charles forensics labs please.

[jsbt]

6 hours ago, CeChase said:

Well, good luck to Patrick trying to write that kind of nuanced material for LW.   He'll need it. 

Plenty have in the past. LW is not hiding in the stairwell waiting to Tonya Harding the good writers.

Speaking of good writing: I mentioned this a few days ago but the dialogue in Maxie's segments for several days running (starting with the Spinelli stuff a few eps ago and up to the end of the week) and the Tracy/Gregory discussion of marriage is also sharper than the usual dull knives BTS at this show. Same with Wagger and Sonny - 'until you get jurisdiction over the FBI or simply die of shame...' And the family cohesion with the get-together on Friday and Blaze, Jason's sons, etc. intermixing with the family was great.

Edited March 3 by jsbt

[ComeWhatMay]

5 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Same with Wagger and Sonny - 'until you get jurisdiction over the FBI or simply die of shame...'

I replayed that line when I watched the episode. Maybe three times… ;-) 

[dubbel zout]

56 minutes ago, jsbt said:

LW is not hiding in the stairwell waiting to Tonya Harding the good writers.

I'm pretty sure she would like to be creatively challenged when she comes to work instead of saying the same lines over and over.

[jsbt]

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm pretty sure she would like to be creatively challenged when she comes to work instead of saying the same lines over and over.

And she's capable of it! I can understand where some of the fan mythology surrounding LW comes from (never mind everything under the sun that's been attributed to Liz Korte since roughly 9/11) and even submit to some of it possibly having a basis in fact - it's no secret Wes Ramsey was/is her boyfriend. But Laura didn't bully her way across multiple soaps to survive in the business for 30+ years. Carly isn't real and Laura isn't Carly, and I get as sick of Carly as most people. And she has done great work in the role back when this show had a half-decent daily writing staff.

I can't fault people for being sick of Carly. I've often been sick of Carly at many points over the last several decades. But Carly is part of the firmament of the show now, and if I can't get Sarah Brown back (which would always be my option, even if I think Laura's done very well) I would settle for seeing the writing for her improve. I'm not going to say LW is incapable of playing it or would actively sabotage it, because I've never seen anything remotely verifiable that would suggest that. Vibes don't count.

Edited March 3 by jsbt

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, jsbt said:

Plenty have in the past. LW is not hiding in the stairwell waiting to Tonya Harding the good writers.

 

 

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm pretty sure she would like to be creatively challenged when she comes to work instead of saying the same lines over and over.

I do think there's a piece in there where it isn't just the writing, it's the way LW plays Carly. As terrible as the character is and always has been, both Sarah Brown and Tamara Braun played her with a bit more nuance as far as her insecurities go, such as being seen as inferior to 'good girls' like Liz and Robin. Wright either can't or won't lean into Original Recipe Carly's shakiness, for lack of a better word, and while I get that like Maurice she's been on the show for ages, her all gas and no brakes Carly is both enraging and exhausting. Better writing would be a good start, but this version of the character who doesn't remember what it's like to feel as if people are talking about her behind her back in a negative way is why people are so sick of her.

[jsbt]

14 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I do think there's a piece in there where it isn't just the writing, it's the way LW plays Carly. As terrible as the character is and always has been, both Sarah Brown and Tamara Braun played her with a bit more nuance as far as her insecurities go, such as being seen as inferior to 'good girls' like Liz and Robin.

I don't think Tamara did. And I do think LW has played the vulnerability when it's been written for (I can think of a number of occasions in the 2000s where she let her insecurities out more, and with Sean Kanan's A.J.). It just hasn't been shown much in the last decade.

LW is a specific hardscrabble, aggressive persona onscreen and she has brought that to every character's she's ever played on soaps, that much is true. Carly though is the one where she was allowed to get really ugly, especially in her early years. I thought Tamara did great work in the role at times and could also be unbearable and utterly without nuance at times, especially in the unending Fab 4 year of 2003 until Lorenzo Alcazar became a big part of Carly's world for a brief moment in time. But unlike Tamara's, when Laura's Carly took on another irrational vendetta against someone (like Dante and Lulu) I believed 100% it was her mission in life and that she was not fucking around. That's the brute aggression Sarah also had that I think Laura does well with. Not the perfect mother/mate stuff in recent years. I think she can do a lot more when she's challenged in material and is willing to do it; I don't see a sign she isn't. But we'll see if anything materializes.

[jsbt]

In other news: It may be my well-known love for the original recipe Ava tainting my POV, but I am starting to think my fantasy about Ava being involved is whatever is really going down here might have some basis in reality.

There are two key shots in the last week or two that seem to tip the scales a bit. One had Ava inexplicably eavesdropping on Sonny and Wu at the penthouse after Wu ordered her out of the room. The other is the close-up on Ava's approving face at the meet this past Friday as Sonny assures Selina they can trust her. That's what they went to commercial on. These things are rarely done haphazardly in the edit, and the material with Sonny and Ava lately is pitched as intimate but not loving or sympathetic. I have begun to think Ava is playing Sonny again, just as she did in 2013-2014.

[nilyank]

9 minutes ago, jsbt said:

There are two key shots in the last week or two that seem to tip the scales a bit. One had Ava inexplicably eavesdropping on Sonny and Wu at the penthouse after Wu ordered her out of the room. The other is the close-up on Ava's approving face at the meet this past Friday as Sonny assures Selina they can trust her. That's what they went to commercial on. These things are rarely done haphazardly in the edit, and the material with Sonny and Ava lately is pitched as intimate but not loving or sympathetic. I have begun to think Ava is playing Sonny again, just as she did in 2013-2014.

Yep. I can totally believe that the previous writers were meandering around this plot of killing off mob bosses without settling on the big bad yet.

It makes sense to me if PM & EW looked over the storyline and decided to tweak with what would be the best way to move forward with this story by having Ava being behind it all. And if she has been playing Nina all these years to crush her also in the process even better.

[jsbt]

24 minutes ago, nilyank said:

It makes sense to me if PM & EW looked over the storyline and decided to tweak with what would be the best way to move forward with this story by having Ava being behind it all. And if she has been playing Nina all these years to crush her also in the process even better.

It would be very in keeping with Mulcahey's Cassadine material in the old days. And it's who Ava is, at core. But idk that I'm that lucky. I may be reading a lot into it. I was sure it was just a pipe dream until the last week or so. Friday made me real suspicious.

Fans will squawk if the Nina/Ava relationship is destroyed but let's be honest, it never made sense anyway. I don't know that the Nina angle is in any way part of it if this scheme is even happening, but it would be fine by me lol.

Edited March 3 by jsbt

[sunnyface]

 

Better writing should improve certain aspects of the show, but the bigger corrective action that show needs now is removing some characters (Spinelli nor Jason should have been rehired). 

Upon finishing that recent episode of Spinelli performing Karoake, I immediately cancelled my Hulu (and my Disney+ will not be renewed).  If TPTB thinks that the audience likes SBu and BM, then bring them back as Dr. Matt and Dr. Stephen Lars and not as felons.

I have had my fill of Sonny, Carly and Jason and my current tolerance limit is viewing just two of them. Until MB leaves the show, this viewer will no longer be supporting GH (cable/hulu/etc).  Since the cast appears to be fine with supporting the mob, the only BTS folks that I feel bad for - are the production folks.

 

[ciarra]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

. I have begun to think Ava is playing Sonny again

Ava didn't seem all that shocked or upset when she heard about Olivia Jerome's murder.

Ava was sent the gun and the notes after Austin's murder, and seemed genuinely upset, but then it prompted Sonny to bring Ava closer to him, staying at his penthouse, going to the island.  So she gets rid of Austin, who betrayed her, and gains Sonny's trust.  Win, win.

Edited March 3 by ciarra

[jsbt]

11 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Ava was sent the gun and the notes after Austin's murder, and seemed genuinely upset, but then it prompted Sonny to bring Ava closer to him, staying at his penthouse, going to the island.  So she gets rid of Austin, who betrayed her, and gains Sonny's trust.  Win, win.

Throwing a wrench into flaky, impulsive Nina re: her secret (in one way or another) and leading to the newlyweds being on the outs also destabilizes Sonny, which allows Ava to move in as a confidant just as she did ten years ago. I'm not convinced that's part of it at all (again, if we're onto anything at all, we may be way off) but it would fit. I hadn't even thought of her killing Austin, but it is far from beyond her capability. She has killed for less. I can't recall if her whereabouts were accounted for when he was shot, though I did watch that episode.

And yes, I thought they put an unusual amount of focus for a day or two on Ava's reaction to Olivia's death. I don't remember them interacting much period. But I also highly doubt that if Ava is behind this that it was a D&C choice.

Edited March 4 by jsbt

[Grinaldi]

I'm down if Ava is the big bad here.  The only thing I bump on is the attack in PR where both she AND Avery were present. Unless we get a beat where they discover those attackers were firing blanks then I don't buy Ava putting Avery in harm's way (same thing I bump on with Jason being the culprit)

I would also have liked to see the moment Ava decided to stop being a doormat and take power for herself.  I want her "As God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again" moment. Maybe in a reveal flashback?

If nothing else, I want Ava to use this situation to become more of a power player herself.  I would have preferred her to go the Cassadine route and become the new matriarch that family needs. I'd rather she not be responsible for Austin's death. Yes he crossed her but he was a garden variety dirtbag who did some good things while he was in town. I don't want a full return to her cold-blooded killer roots, particularly after Kiki's death.

Would she have Liv killed?  Sure. I can go with that. Liv was a psycho and caused Morgan's death.  She was also pretty terrible to Ava in the past if I remember my exposition correctly. But it's also a possibility that Olivia' death is a fake out and she's the ultimate baddie here.

At the end of the day, I just want Maura West on my screen. My one worry about making her the power here and putting her in direct, lethal conflict with Sonny is that would reduce her shelf life. I have no interest in losing her any time soon. She's an asset. That she isn't a gay meme queen already jut shows a lack of imagination on behalf of the writers and the social media team.

Oh, and yeah, blow up the Nina friendship.  The actress are great together but Nina literally cut a baby out of her. Why would she ever forgive that? In fact a story where Nina and Carly have to reluctantly team up to take down Ava might be a lot of fun.

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, Grinaldi said:

I'm down if Ava is the big bad here.  The only thing I bump on is the attack in PR where both she AND Avery were present. Unless we get a beat where they discover those attackers were firing blanks then I don't buy Ava putting Avery in harm's way (same thing I bump on with Jason being the culprit)

I would also have liked to see the moment Ava decided to stop being a doormat and take power for herself.  I want her "As God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again" moment. Maybe in a reveal flashback?

The Nikolas debacle with their gruesome break-up, then Austin and his hick brother (on top of Ryan, Kiki, et al) is the likely answer. Ava has been this person before, after all; she came on the show as a ruthless killer and mob queen.

I can buy Ava doing practically anything on this show. She is capable of a lot. If she believes Avery won't be touched she'd go there in Puerto Rico.

I will always believe Ava is a cold-blooded killer, so I really don't care how far she goes myself. Her mortifying turn as Phantom of the Nurses Ball and the occasional embarrassing ghostly appearance by a dreadfully wooden Megan Ward as Connie/Kate has never swayed me. As I've said before, Ava has lasted longer than any other rival of Sonny's on this show and frankly she has lasted this long only by taking a series of soppy turns that often diminished the character's power for me. I love Ava, I love Maura, but I think she only has so long left sensibly. That doesn't mean she can't still spend at least several more years on the show - again, for me the model is Alex Olanov on OLTL (ironically also played by Tonja Walker a.k.a. Olivia Jerome), who did insane shit day after day for years but lasted almost a decade herself without the character being too softened or altered. There are ways Ava can move from power base to power base or keep herself out of Sonny's reach or sphere eventually that can keep her going on for awhile. Helena kept going in and out for almost 20 years with Constance Towers in the role before her unceremonious apparent death. I think it is doable without defanging her.

Quote

Oh, and yeah, blow up the Nina friendship.  The actress are great together but Nina literally cut a baby out of her. Why would she ever forgive that?

Ironically enough, I just had to correct this the other day somewhere else but no, Nina did not do a C-section on Ava. But she did violate her and get all the way up in there in a pretty gross series of scenes, then tried to take her baby. I never forgot that either.

Edited March 4 by jsbt

[Asp Burger]

18 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I do think there's a piece in there where it isn't just the writing, it's the way LW plays Carly. As terrible as the character is and always has been, both Sarah Brown and Tamara Braun played her with a bit more nuance as far as her insecurities go, such as being seen as inferior to 'good girls' like Liz and Robin.

 

17 hours ago, jsbt said:

I don't think Tamara did. And I do think LW has played the vulnerability when it's been written for (I can think of a number of occasions in the 2000s where she let her insecurities out more, and with Sean Kanan's A.J.). It just hasn't been shown much in the last decade.

Tamara Braun seems to be the most polarizing of the four Carlys, in the sense that we all watched the same show but felt different things about her. I have frequently seen Braun praised for bringing qualities such as vulnerability to Carly, and I just did not have that experience when I watched her. Not for the greatest part of her time in the role. 

At first, maybe. Almost immediately after TB took over for SJB, Sonny threw Carly out for colluding with Roy DiLucca and the FBI to get him out of mob life. So the first impression most of us had of the TB Carly was a very vulnerable one. For a while, she acted as if she were having a breakdown, running around in her wedding dress and begging for another chance. (At least Nina at present is not resorting to the wedding dress.)

But even before her place was restored at Sonny's side as mob queen, and she became the ranking female member of the Fab Four and BFF to Courtney, she was smirky, haughty, and (to me) usually insufferable. It started when she zeroed in on first Angel Ellis and then Alexis as women standing in the way of what she was due.  

I can't really speak for the TB Carly's Lorenzo Alcazar era, however. That fell in a period in the mid-2000s when I was still keeping up, but not watching with the same devotion.  

From seeing TB in other roles, including her other role on GH (Kim Nero), I don't think her Carly presented the most accurate picture of her baseline screen presence. I think it's just how she felt she should play this character, who was being written by McTavish and then by Guza/Pratt to come out on top most of the time, usually get the last word in arguments, and have her writing-room précis voiced out loud by other characters ("brave and strong and loves with her whole heart, not just a part of it," etc.).

I think the same about Laura Wright, actually.

Edited March 4 by Asp Burger
Extraneous word.

[CeChase]

I think LW is a good actress.  I do not like her portrayal of Carly.  I don't like her, and I think her ego is as huge as Mo's.  I think it's not controversial to say Mo has a huge ego and meddles behind the scenes as much as he can get away with, though he doesn't always get his way.  I do think it's controversial to say that about LW.   Bottom line is, I don't like her, and that's not going to change.  Nor do I make apologies for it.  Why should I?  

As for Korte, someone told LW that Carly is "that woman every woman wants to be friends with, and every man wants".  LW said a writer told her this.  And that LW's response was "YES that's so Carly!".  Well, that's not so Carly, and that right there is why LW's Carly has been shit, to me personally.  Now, who is this writer that told her this? It was Chris or Dan who were there for a few years?  Okay, maybe.  I think it was likely Korte.  But I have no evidence of that. 

Now as to Ava, for me Maura is that girl.  And this Ava they are pushing, clinging to Sonny for protection, and even wanting that overused pepperoni, ain't it.  I want her to be involved and playing Sonny so badly.  To have been working all along to isolate Sonny, playing the long game.  It's what Maura deserves and it's what we viewers deserve.  It will be amazing. I just hope it's what is happening.

Edited March 4 by CeChase

[ffwbe]

I was never much of a fan of TB’s Carly either and truthfully, I recall feedback on her Carly to be much more polarizing when it was actually airing than recently. I also found her portrayal of Kim to be not great and was glad the character was written off after a couple years. However, I find LW’s Carly to be completely unwatchable and it’s been unwatchable through like half a dozen different HWs so I don’t think it’s all the writing. I didn’t find her take on her GL character Cassie to be particularly nuanced either. She leaned into smug and aggressive even when the writing really didn’t call for it and has consistently struggled with provided a layered performances 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, CeChase said:

I think LW is a good actress.  I do not like her portrayal of Carly.

This is exactly how I feel about Maura West and Ava. MW knows exactly what she's doing, and I enjoy watching a pro at work. But I don't like Ava and never really have. Part of the problem is the writing for her has been all over the place (and we got stuck with that godawful Denise Denucci character for a while), but most of it is that MW/Ava just don't strike any sort of chord with me.

[driver18]

With regards Carly and LW, for me it's both the writing and the actress, and I think the writing for the character is because of the actress. I've watched LW in all three of her soap roles: Ally on *Loving*, Cassie on *Guiding Light*, and now as Carly on GH. 

She's a good actress, I'll grant her that always, but I don't like her style, and what she brings to a role. She always has to be essentially the right one even when she's wrong, the perfect leading lady that everyone in the (fictional) town adores. It was the case with Ally, same with Cassie. Everyone worshiped at their feet. And Ally and Cassie were original characters that started with her and she played them until the shows were axed so it wasn't that awful. (Still, lordy, I was not a fan of Cassie--they literally brought on a character who was a prince from a made-up country just to make Cassie a princess because she wasn't worshiped enough.)

Anyhoo, the point is that Carly is not an originating character for LW. When she first started in the role, she played her as written with flaws and everyone didn't love her, Carly didn't always walk away unscathed. But it didn't take long for the LW model to take over and eventually Carly became just another Cassie and Ally where everything went her way and everyone bowed to the wonder and glory of \[insert character that LW is playing\].

[jsbt]

I enjoy Ava immensely when they're true to who Ava is. Ava being pitched as a sympathetic romantic lead or quasi-heroine, or having her crimes put aside and having the last couple years of chummy times with most of the town, puts me to sleep. If I wanted to see Carly Snyder I'd watch old episodes of As the World Turns. If that means her lifespan on the show is less, I don't care. Ava has already lasted far longer than she ever should've organically; I don't need her to last forever, I just need her to go hard while she's here.

Ava has been less defanged and played less safe over the last year-plus than she had been in awhile, but she's still been the sucker for Austin, etc. I don't need that.

3 minutes ago, driver18 said:

When she first started in the role, she played her as written with flaws and everyone didn't love her, Carly didn't always walk away unscathed. But it didn't take long for the LW model to take over and eventually Carly became just another Cassie and Ally where everything went her way and everyone bowed to the wonder and glory of \[insert character that LW is playing\].

But the reality is that wasn't exactly something that began with LW in the role. Anyone who saw TB's Carly in 2003 can attest to that. Even Sarah's Carly had a number of Teflon moments near the end of her run where the entire canvas and people's attitudes got skewed around the focus on her, Jason and Sonny. That bias in the writing had been going on for a number of years. It isn't something LW brought to the character or has enforced upon it.

Edited March 4 by jsbt

[CeChase]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This is exactly how I feel about Maura West and Ava. MW knows exactly what she's doing, and I enjoy watching a pro at work. But I don't like Ava and never really have. Part of the problem is the writing for her has been all over the place (and we got stuck with that godawful Denise Denucci character for a while), but most of it is that MW/Ava just don't strike any sort of chord with me.

I think we all have reactions to certain actors, right?  How many times have people said "oh I just don't like so and so, their face bugs me".  It's totally normal.  I would never try and change anyone's mind about it, even if I have a very different opinion.  Some people liked Nina better with Stafford in the role.  That's mind boggling to me, but OTOH, I get it.  People hit us differently.  And that's okay. 

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, CeChase said:

How many times have people said "oh I just don't like so and so, their face bugs me"

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, my dislike of MW/Ava has nothing to do with her appearance.

Edited March 4 by dubbel zout

[driver18]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

But the reality is that wasn't exactly something that began with LW in the role. Anyone who saw TB's Carly in 2003 can attest to that. Even Sarah's Carly had a number of Teflon moments near the end of her run where the entire canvas and people's attitudes got skewed around the focus on her, Jason and Sonny. That bias in the writing had been going on for a number of years. It isn't something LW brought to the character or has enforced upon it.

I disagree. There were moments, plots when it happened, but ppl, characters still didn't like their Carlys. They still had characters looking down on them. When they screwed up, they were called on it. And when LW first started, Carly wasn't swanning around town like she owned the place.  She still played the vulnerability of Carly, as did, yes, Braun and SJB.

[jacourt]

Wtf. They let ONE cop chase an armed suspect!!!! Why don’t they have those mikes that they can communicate with?  Real high tech pcpd. 

Where is spinelli great security?  

[jsbt]

46 minutes ago, driver18 said:

And when LW first started, Carly wasn't swanning around town like she owned the place.  She still played the vulnerability of Carly, as did, yes, Braun and SJB.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, she played it. That's why I said I don't put the more latter-era change down on LW's inability to play it, or her interfering with the writing.

[DanaK]

So it appears Jason was working undercover to figure out the shooter than shot him when the guy was about to shoot Dante again

[dubbel zout]

Ugh, Heather. Her usefulness is long past, IMO.

Color me surprised that Jason's return was immediately revealed, instead of us having to endure the "suspense" of someone creeping around Port Charles unseen for days.

Well, it sure didn't take long for John to become totally stupid when it comes to Sonny. I'm certainly not outraged on Sonny's behalf, but this sort of thing doesn't do anyone any favors. John looks incompetent, and Sonny's posturing is, as always, laughable.

Portia can shove her "everyone is entitled to proper medical care." Where was that when you decided to wake up Oz from his coma so he could testify against Esmé? 

Did anyone else find the sound a little off? I thought some of the women's voices—FH, GF, and AS in particular—sounded higher than usual.

[jqdeco]

I’m starting to believe the “I’ve found Jesus” schtick of Cyrus. Which is fine if that is the route the writers want to take. But now I am worried he will be sacrificed saving Ace from Heather and then Laura will finally believe he was sincere. It will be a huge shame if that happens. Cyrus has a great way of speaking. He reminds me a bit of Moira Rose (Schitt’s Creek). Her use of language was amazing. Hopefully Cyrus does not start to refer to Ace as the bebe. lol. 
Since when does Selena Wu need Sonny to protect her? She is a bad ass mob boss with her own bodyguards. Sonny should be paying her for protection.

I see SB still has only two expressions. I’ve forgotten my lines and will star into space until someone prompts me or I’m passing a kidney stone.

[driver18]

43 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Yes, that's what I'm saying, she played it. That's why I said I don't put the more latter-era change down on LW's inability to play it, or her interfering with the writing.

That's what I said. It didn't start that way with LW.

 

5 hours ago, driver18 said:

When she first started in the role, she played her as written with flaws and everyone didn't love her, Carly didn't always walk away unscathed. But it didn't take long for the LW model to take over and eventually Carly became just another Cassie and Ally where everything went her way and everyone bowed to the wonder and glory of \[insert character that LW is playing\].

 

[YaddaYadda]

So Jason has been masquerading under a false identity, pretending to be dead for years while his sons, his mother, and various people believed he was dead and mourned him. That Jason is such an awesome all around guy. And yes, I'll jump to conclusions.

They bring Heather out to screech at various people, which is so overdone at this point, like everything else on this soap.

Is Jason going to just sit there and tell Dante things will be okay while not calling 911? Also what poor quality is that bullet proof vest? 

[Auntie Velvet]

It's just based on one day, and mostly in the shadows at that, but Jason doesn't seem too spry to me. That's all I got. 

(Oh, and I did NOT appreciate seeing Dante with blood coming out of his mouth in the previews. Don't scare me, show!)

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, jqdeco said:

I’m starting to believe the “I’ve found Jesus” schtick of Cyrus.

Same; I think if it were fake, we'd have had some indication of that by now. (That doesn't mean the new regime won't change that.)

It continues to amuse me that Cyrus is still amazed Portia wants nothing to do with him. Dude, not everyone is going to forgive you as easily as Laura did—and even Laura isn't entirely sure about you. It's also getting a bit old to see him try to make peace with Portia and she threatens a restraining order. We get it.

[jsbt]

I actually like that Jason comes back with a cross to bear, which is not what I was expecting. He seems to have knowingly stayed gone. That's the most potential blame Jason has taken for anything since beating down John McBain.

59 minutes ago, driver18 said:

That's what I said. It didn't start that way with LW.

No, it didn't. But my point I am not going to attribute the degeneration in the writing of Carly (which began before LW) to LW, who I don't believe is horning in on the writers' room. If given more nuanced material to play I believe she can play it because I've seen her do it. YMMV.

Edited March 4 by jsbt

[Mirabelle]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

 

Is Jason going to just sit there and tell Dante things will be okay while not calling 911? Also what poor quality is that bullet proof vest? 

From Chase's seemingly multi-year long suspension to their poor health plan (at least in the Lucky days), it's obvious the PCPD union doesn't exist or consists of the Port Charles equivalent of Brooklyn 99's Scully and Hitchcock. So why wouldn't their officers be wearing the vests that didn't pass quality control?

 

 

Edited March 4 by Mirabelle

[KittenPokerCheater]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Color me surprised that Jason's return was immediately revealed, instead of us having to endure the "suspense" of someone creeping around Port Charles unseen for days.

Yes- I was surprised by that too.

Since Jacobs Stone was willingly gone and let his kids think he was dead makes me hope that Act-Out-Angry-Teen-Danny will NEVER forgive him.

[Desperado]

1 hour ago, jqdeco said:

Since when does Selena Wu need Sonny to protect her? She is a bad ass mob boss with her own bodyguards. Sonny should be paying her for protection.

Heck, yeah!

I love JK but if he’s letting his greasy hair grow back and Cyrus is just going to go around town asking why he can’t be forgiven, I’m done.

Was Ava there just to be shown standing by her man? I just can’t.