S02.E09: Time Stands Still

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Rome helps PJ through a personal crisis, while Gary and Maggie’s relationship takes a turn; and Delilah, Eddie and Katherine make tough decisions that will affect their families.

Airing Thursday, November 21, 2019.

 

[nexxie]

Sounds popcorn-worthy! 🍿

[chitowngirl]

There was absolutely no reason for Barbara and her husband to deny PJ his father for his whole life....Your father died on 9/11 and mom got married to a guy who stepped up. Why would that have been so hard??

[debraran]

Ten minutes left but this was a bust. Nash might have hyped for ratings, but really, no heartbreak unless Sophie does something awful and she's in the next show with Danny according to the cast list.

The whole PJ thing was dumb, the DNA was dumb and the writers made Rome and others look stupid. A hair on a very worn sweater? Mitch actually seemed better in this show, the acting was so bad. Even PJ was a bit overwrought, like he rehearsed too much. Maybe now, they can be happier and PJ can get help and go to school and learn to love his parents in a new way. Truth can do that.

Edna still doesn't know her dog exists but whatever.  Regina was great but I saw the baby thing coming.  Oh well, adoption is nice. : )

Sophie was real, very real. I pictured that scene over and over but she nailed it. Poor Theo though.

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[ams1001]

Oh f*ck you, Delilah.

I was waiting for Barbara to say "this was Dave's sweater." Amazing that they just accept he's Jon's kid based on some hair on an old sweater. I know none of these people are doctors or scientists (well, except Maggie, technically, but she's a PhD, not an MD, right?), but, well...neither am I but I know better than to assume some hair on a sweater must be Jon's just because it was in his possession.

No, no Gary, they are not better than that.

[Commercial for reboot of Party of Five, 'cept parents are deported instead of dead: Is there anything new that isn't a reboot?]

How long has Maggie been done with chemo? When is she going to grow some hair?

4 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

There was absolutely no reason for Barbara and her husband to deny PJ his father for his whole life....Your father died on 9/11 and mom got married to a guy who stepped up. Why would that have been so hard??

Yeah, that made no sense. "Dad" would still have been his dad. Plenty of stepparents consider their stepkids "their own"; plenty of stepkids consider their stepparents their parents. PJ would have grown up with him as his dad either way.

Sort of ugh on Regina changing her mind on raising a kid (not that I didn't expect it one way or another), but at least they didn't have her suddenly wanting to get pregnant herself.

Of course Maggie calls Her Brother's Heart to come help her out. What bombshell does have in store for her?

[nexxie]

16 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

There was absolutely no reason for Barbara and her husband to deny PJ his father for his whole life....Your father died on 9/11 and mom got married to a guy who stepped up. Why would that have been so hard??

Then there wouldn’t be a cautionary tale for Delilah.

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Oh f*ck you, Delilah.

I was waiting for Barbara to say "this was Dave's sweater." Amazing that they just accept he's Jon's kid based on some hair on an old sweater. I know none of these people are doctors or scientists (well, except Maggie, technically, but she's a PhD, not an MD, right?), but, well...neither am I but I know better than to assume some hair on a sweater must be Jon's just because it was in his possession.

No, no Gary, they are not better than that.

[Commercial for reboot of Party of Five, 'cept parents are deported instead of dead: Is there anything new that isn't a reboot?]

How long has Maggie been done with chemo? When is she going to grow some hair?

Yeah, that made no sense. "Dad" would still have been his dad. Plenty of stepparents consider their stepkids "their own"; plenty of stepkids consider their stepparents their parents. PJ would have grown up with him as his dad either way.

Sort of ugh on Regina changing her mind on raising a kid (not that I didn't expect it one way or another), but at least they didn't have her suddenly wanting to get pregnant herself.

Of course Maggie calls Her Brother's Heart to come help her out. What bombshell does have in store for her?

Is he not a donor? Who knows but I guess if you love Maggie, you will care. I don't, so I'm like, let the therapist figure it out.  Gary seems to know something, maybe he found the Internet and he googled. 😉

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[LucyEth]

Well a 2 month wait to see how this all pans out.  Delilah's kids did not take it well.  All Delilah's fears seem like they will come true, her kids are very angry with her, that's too bad.   I guess she will be furious with Catherine and Eddie now.  Maggie and Gary, whatever, is the heart guy in love with her???  

The PJ stuff was not that moving, but Rome was fantastic.  Seemed like he was just mad that Jon was not his father because he wanted to be very connected to that group.  Delilah will probably ask for the watch back.   

[debraran]

14 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

Well a 2 month wait to see how this all pans out.  Delilah's kids did not take it well.  All Delilah's fears seem like they will come true, her kids are very angry with her, that's too bad.   I guess she will be furious with Catherine and Eddie now.  Maggie and Gary, whatever, is the heart guy in love with her???  

The PJ stuff was not that moving, but Rome was fantastic.  Seemed like he was just mad that Jon was not his father because he wanted to be very connected to that group.  Delilah will probably ask for the watch back.   

I thought the actor was better than that. He didn't move me at all. I was like "cut it out" It was so cliche on the rooftop and the drama in the staircase. I've seen some similar scenes that have moved me, but this one didn't. I had a friend kill himself and for some reason, it just made me want to shake PJ . Jon's suicide touched me more.

I did like the scene with his parents later but in 2019 I still don't know why she hid that his dad died in 9/11. He would have loved his dad and known his bio dad was a good man. She denied Dave's parents a grandson.

Re the watch, she did emphasize it was cheap. His dad's, first sentence the man had parents. lol

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[memememe76]

Maybe Delilah is right. If revealing the truth means more angsty teenager storylines, maybe they should keep the lie.

[Madding crowd]

PJ’s story didn’t move me that much because we don’t really know him. I also thought Gary got way too angry too fast. I don’t trust people who go between joking and rage all the time.

I don’t hate Delilah like most do and thought she went through a lot in one day. I guess the show wants me to wonder about the secret donor guy is keeping from Maggie but she is my least favorite character so meh.

I did have a brief thought Rome might fall off the balcony while helping PJ and really glad that didn’t happen. 

[iwasish]

What the fuck is Gary’s problem? He cheats an old lady out of her rightful property and then comes around to help her out with her decorations? He senses Maggie has one foot the door and he’s looking for a another person who “needs” him? Where’s the beloved Colin? All that angst over a dog and he’s not even seen? Gary needs some major therapy. He’s a mess. 
Will Barbara and Mitch change their minds and accept the money Jon left?

I would have liked to have heard what exactly Delilah told her kids versus Eddies story for Theo. So Sophie smashed Eddie’s  guitars, she should have swung at his head. 

[cardigirl]

Hope Eddie’s guitars are insured. I don’t know why teenagers think they have the right to destroy property, but I guess it’s better than hitting people.#hatingonsophienow

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Will Barbara and Mitch change their minds and accept the money Jon left?

I hope so, and I hope they use it to get him a good therapist and then send him to college.

4 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I would have liked to have heard what exactly Delilah told her kids versus Eddies story for Theo. So Sophie smashed Eddie’s  guitars, she should have swung at his head. 

Me, too. They didn't actually get to tell Theo, though, did they? 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Of course Maggie calls Her Brother's Heart to come help her out. What bombshell does have in store for her?

Maybe Eric's Chad heart is failing and he needs a new transplant? That's the only thing I could think of that would make sense. Maggie would be literally losing the last piece of Chad left alive so....I don't want to lose Jason Ritter, either way. If this is the case, I hope he gets a new heart and lives.

So, the truth finally comes out. Except....as usual, we don't really get much besides disappointed looks from Sophie and Danny with Delilah, but we see Sophie's full on rage at Eddie. We better see Sophie get pissed at Delilah, like legitimately pissed. I don't need to see poor sad Delilah only get the silent treatment.

That being said, hearing Gary and Regina both FINALLY express some anger at Delilah was great. It was just a start, though. It still took some kid almost committing suicide over secrets that got Delilah to do the right thing.

The PJ stuff was just a waste of time. All of that just to get back to what they literally told us last season? Seriously. That being said, Chandler Riggs and Romany Malco did a great job on the roof. I mean, the stupid dialogue aside, the actors did the best job that they could do.

Gary and Maggie break up! Good! They do need to figure out their lives separately, outside of cancer. I hope they both can. Gary, in particular, needs some serious help. Guy's got a chance at a new start.

Regina now wants to adopt a baby because...Rome showed her what a great dad he'd be. FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I knew this would happen. It annoys me. I called this the moment they introduced this storyline way early last season. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop; well, it looks like it finally did.

[Bubbles]

Really annoyed with Regina's change of heart but pretty much expected it after the childhood abuse reveal. Women on TV are rarely allowed to not want kids simply because they don't want them, it has to be because they're broken in some way that can later get fixed to allow them to accept their lady destiny. That, or they get knocked up accidentally and just accept it like they have no options. 

The PJ stuff was all way too melodramatic, and the "the hair wasn't Jon's" twist was ridiculously obvious. 

[ams1001]

Just now, Bubbles said:

Really annoyed with Regina's change of heart but pretty much expected it after the childhood abuse reveal. Women on TV are rarely allowed to not want kids simply because they don't want them, it has to be because they're broken in some way that can later get fixed to allow them to accept their lady destiny. That, or they get knocked up accidentally and just accept it like they have no options. 

I was kinda hoping she'd at least say she wanted to adopt an older kid instead of a baby. If she really wants to 'save' someone...

[iwasish]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe Chad's heart is failing and he needs a new transplant? That's the only thing I could think of that would make sense. Maggie would be literally losing the last piece of Chad left alive so....I don't want to lose Jason Ritter, either way. If this is the case, I hope he gets a new heart and lives.

So, the truth finally comes out. Except....as usual, we don't really get much besides disappointed looks from Sophie and Danny with Delilah, but we see Sophie's full on rage at Eddie. We better see Sophie get pissed at Delilah, like legitimately pissed. I don't need to see poor sad Delilah only get the silent treatment.

That being said, hearing Gary and Regina both FINALLY express some anger at Delilah was great. It was just a start, though. It still took some kid almost committing suicide over secrets that got Delilah to do the right thing.

The PJ stuff was just a waste of time. All of that just to get back to what they literally told us last season? Seriously. That being said, Chandler Riggs and Romany Malco did a great job on the roof. I mean, the stupid dialogue aside, the actors did the best job that they could do.

Gary and Maggie break up! Good! They do need to figure out their lives separately, outside of cancer. I hope they both can. Gary, in particular, needs some serious help. Guy's got a chance at a new start.

Regina now wants to adopt a baby because...Rome showed her what a great dad he'd be. FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I knew this would happen. It annoys me. I called this the moment they introduced this storyline way early last season. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop; well, it looks like it finally did.

So Sophie and Danny will collect off Jon’s Social Security, but Delilah will hit up Eddie for child support .

Nice attorney “ I pay big bucks for a kid I see for 2 months in the summer” 

3 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I was kinda hoping she'd at least say she wanted to adopt an older kid instead of a baby. If she really wants to 'save' someone...

I think that’s her intention,  between the restaurant and Rome’s job, they don’t need an infant. 

[Spencer Hastings]

I don’t even need an entire hand to count the amount of decent human beings on this show.  That includes Theo, the old lady who got her dog stolen, and Barbara Morgan’s husband who willingly adopted some pregnant lady’s kid and found himself in this mess with these idiots.

[Bringonthedrama]

51 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

  Maggie and Gary, whatever, is the heart guy in love with her???  

Eric was telling someone over the phone that he couldn't tell Maggie right now, but because of the show's music I'm not sure if he called the person "Honey" or "Buddy." Can anyone clarify?

The actor who plays Rome rocked the scenes with the PJ actor. I felt his fear of losing this young man to suicide after losing John to suicide and then also losing his mother so suddenly recently. 

I almost laughed at the winter preview of Delilah insisting to Sophie "I did NOT kill your father." Good to know she's furious with her mother too and not blaming everything on Eddie.  Totally understand why she wanted to destroy the guitars though.

[TheLotusFlower]

As soon as Rome started talking about wanting kids, I just knew they were going to make Gina magically change her mind and decide she now wants to be a mom.  Rome's mother dies and Rome saves PJ, and that was enough to get her maternal instincts all riled up after never wanting children?  I call BS!  Some of us women do not want to be mothers, not via adoption or otherwise.  These networks just refuse to show that women of a certain age can actually be willingly and happily child-free.

[Chanandler Bong]

“I don’t know what I’ll do if they don’t take it well.” Why would you think they might take it WELL??? She is so delusional.

Episode MVP goes to the actress that plays Sophie. That whispered “I hate you” at the end was gold.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, iwasish said:

I would have liked to have heard what exactly Delilah told her kids versus Eddies story for Theo. So Sophie smashed Eddie’s  guitars, she should have swung at his head. 

Yeah, I wish we got to hear the actual conversations.

And they seemed to get interrupted before telling Theo, but he seemed to understand it was something bad when he saw Sophie. Why did Katharine bring him outside to follow Eddie, especially when they didn't even know what the sound was?

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Hope Eddie’s guitars are insured. I don’t know why teenagers think they have the right to destroy property, but I guess it’s better than hitting people.#hatingonsophienow

I had the same reaction. Yes, Sophie has a right to be angry at Eddie and her mother, and she can tell them she hates them, but smashing up the guitars is a pretty destructive reaction. I understand it, and that she's coming from anger, but Eddie being an ass doesn't give her the right to do whatever she wants.

So Jon just kept that sweater sitting around unwashed for 17 years?

[tennisgurl]

So after all of this build up, PJ isnt even Jons son? Why even bother keeping this secret then, or turning down the money he needed for college? No matter how upset his parents seemed to be, they still did a lot of crappy needlessly cruel things to PJ. But I guess this all needed to happen so that Delilah could learn a very important lesson about keeping secrets. 

So after all that build up, we dont even get to see the conversations when the kids find out the truth about Charlie?! Really? A much as I dont approve of Sophie breaking Eddies stuff, I do at least appreciate that her reaction actually did seem real, whereas so many people on this show just act so weirdly and react so bizarrely to things. Either they dont get upset enough, or totally blow things up out of proportion. 

Of course Regina accepts her destiny as a woman on television to want a child. Specifically, to "save" a kid like Rome did with PJ, whatever. They already have all of these kids in their codependent friend group, cant she save one of them? Delilah yelling about her not knowing anything about this because she doesent have kids was an awful thing to say though, that was way uncalled for. 

[lala2]

My hatred for Delilah is already pretty intense and only increased tonight. I just do not like the character. She is selfish, childish, and annoying. If I was supposed to feel bad for her at the end, I didn't. She created this mess when she slept w/Eddie. If she didn't want her kids to learn the truth, she shouldn't have had Eddie's kid, or she shouldn't have told him the truth. What did she think was going to happen?!?! I also cannot forget that she wasn't that worried about her kids when she was planning on leaving John to run off w/Eddie. It's really hard to take her seriously. I was happy Regina told her she was just upset b/c ppl weren't agreeing w/her choices. She is such a child. Oh, you don't think I'm doing the right thing . . . I'll just ignore you like a 10-year old. And I was ticked that Gary went easy on her in his rant! Grow the heck up, Delilah! 

The PJ stuff was overly dramatic to me too. I like Carl ( oops . . . PJ), but I just didn't relate to his anger and his sadness over the truth. I guess he's really disconnected from his parents. He may be clinically depressed or something. They need to get him in some therapy ASAP.  Rome did a good job w/him though. 

I also hated the guitar bashing scene. Realistic? Sure. But if I were Eddie, I wouldn't have just stood there and let her do that. It doesn't help that I didn't get to see her rage at her mom. I hate Delilah and want to see someone, anyone rage at her. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by lala2

[TheLotusFlower]

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Regina accepts her destiny as a woman on television to want a child. Specifically, to "save" a kid like Rome did with PJ, whatever. They already have all of these kids in their codependent friend group, cant she save one of them? Delilah yelling about her not knowing anything about this because she doesent have kids was an awful thing to say though, that was way uncalled for. 

I agree with everything here.  I personally wouldn't deal with Delilah as a friend anymore.  She made that hateful comment to Regina about her not having kids, yet she certainly doesn't seem to mind handing her new born affair baby over for Regina to babysit.  If someone is so unqualified to give you any advice about your children, then you shouldn't trust them to care for your kids either.  Also, Regina is the only one who finally stood up to Delilah about her being angry at anybody who doesn't agree with her, but then Gary included Regina in his little reprimand speech.  I didn't like that at all.  I feel like Regina was basically dragged into the middle of a lot of drama that has nothing to do with her.  She was dragged into Eddie and Delilah's affair because of that weird, co-dependent, multi-person friendship they all have. Then Katherine and Eddie are complaining to her about Delilah's nonsense. Then she was dragged into the PJ paternity thing because of Rome's friendship with PJ.  Then Maggie comes to her thinking she knows something about the ring Gary bought.  If I was Regina, I'd be done with all of them by now.

[Spencer Hastings]

Ordinarily I would have hated the guitar smashing scene because being destructive gets you nowhere and it’s such a tv trope anyway. 

That being said, what Eddie and Delilah did was awful and no one has taken them to task for it yet.  Everyone has kind of shrugged their shoulders at their betrayal of John and Katherine.  Somebody needs to be pissed off and not let them off the hook immediately after finding out. Sophie deserves to feel angry and betrayed on behalf of her father (even though he was apparently at peace with their relationship) and her rage is the most realistic thing they’ve done with this story.  Teenagers are destructive, irrational, and will hit you where it hurts. I just wish she would have smashed Eddie and Delilah in the face once or twice. 

I also hope that Delilah at least gets a taste of Sophie’s anger as well.  I’m beyond tired of her little wounded bird act whenever someone calls her out on her crap. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[Dowel Jones]

If I was Jon, I would have taken a header off of that balcony too.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, iwasish said:

What the fuck is Gary’s problem? He cheats an old lady out of her rightful property and then comes around to help her out with her decorations? He senses Maggie has one foot the door and he’s looking for a another person who “needs” him? Where’s the beloved Colin? All that angst over a dog and he’s not even seen? Gary needs some major therapy. He’s a mess. 
Will Barbara and Mitch change their minds and accept the money Jon left?

I would have liked to have heard what exactly Delilah told her kids versus Eddies story for Theo. So Sophie smashed Eddie’s  guitars, she should have swung at his head. 

What I didn't like was how the writers thought that made it "ok" now that she knew and didn't care. Some fans feel the same way. What they leave out is the big LIE that Gary has the woman's dog and she never knew there was two, she thought poor Gary thought he returned the right one. She made peace with it, but how weird is that with helping her?

Gary is always shown with women when he's mad at Maggie. I really don't like them together. He should have had a sense that his job was in jeopardy . Too many people in my family had chemo and no one expected or even wanted family there all the time. If this is how he runs, impulsive decisions, etc. he needs some time alone too.  I think Maggie (and I don't like her character) is right to want some breathing room but the gall in finding the ring and telling him, maybe he changed his mind or was waiting to see what happens. Such a silly script.

I think re Sophie, if he tried to stop her (hope they are insured) he might have gotten hit. Some people think she is being "bad" but this guy danced with her, taught her guitar, was her dad's friend and he slept with her mother. (double yuck) She might have had a little crush on him herself. I don't blame her at all.

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[bybrandy]

8 minutes ago, debraran said:

Too many people in my family had chemo and no one expected or even wanted family there all the time.

my mom did chemo and radiation concurrently and maybe that's different but in her treatment center lots of people had people there every day and while sometimes the caregiver rotated lots of time it didn't.  

I did feel though like Gary admitted he didn't lose his job becaue of Maggie.  He spent the whole year going from here to there to here again and then the chemo.   It was him dropping everything for all of them that cost him his job. 

Anything to have more Jason Ritter on the show (on any show.  I can't think of anything I watch that wouldn't be better for a little gratuitous Jason Ritter) but I don't care  even a little bit what he and  his "buddy" are keeping from Maggie. 

I'm sure his "buddy" is not Chad's left kidney but that would be hysterical.  Every time Maggie gets to a stable place she gets to meet another bit of her brother.  Left kidney, right kidney, lungs, corneas!

I knew that sweater meant thaat kid wasn't Jons but I'm pretty sure when they gave the sweater to Gary they mentioned that Jon wore it all the time... presumably then he also washed it a few times in the 18 years since 9/11  and it has certainly been handled by loads of other people in that time frame but the bit of DNA they manged to isolate on the sweater was just hanging out for the past 18 years uncontaminated or cleaned by anything that has happened to the sweater in the meantime.    

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Delilah because she's crying in her car about PJ being Jon's son? Maybe she should take those feelings of betrayal and hurt and apply them to her current situation to PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN by telling the kids who Charlie's father really is.

And as shocking as it is for her to find out that Jon had a son, he was single when he knew Barbara. Delilah, on the other hand, was married and cheating and about to leave her husband.

While I'm glad that Delilah accepted PJ so easily into the family, it seemed odd to me that she gave him Jon's watch. Did she not think that Sophie or Danny would want it? When my dad died, his watch was the only thing that my sister wanted.

But she can STFU with her anger at Rome and Gina for keeping PJ a secret from her. They were just waiting for the DNA test results which took a few weeks. She was planning to keep Charlie's parentage a secret FOREVER. I don't care what she has said about wanting to wait until the right time to tell them. We know the truth is that she never wanted to tell Sophie and Danny the truth. All of Delilah's "YOU WERE KEEPING INFORMATION FROM ME ABOUT MY LIFE!" just made me cringe Apparently she doesn't think Charlie, Sophie, Danny, or Theo need information that's pertinent to their lives if it makes her look bad.

And Delilah can go fuck herself with the whole "Regina, you don't have kids so your arguments are not valid." You don't have to squeeze out a baby to know that lying to your children about something like this is a terrible idea.

A lot of people in this group have made mistakes, but Delilah keeps doubling down on hers. Her SHOCK that Eddie would go through legal channels to claim Charlie as his own just made me roll my eyes. Like Eddie said, he tried to talk to her about this but she refused to cooperate so what other option did he have? Just sit back and hope she changed her mind one day?

But I will say that it was shitty of Eddie to ask Gary to talk to Delilah about it. I know he was just trying to avoid taking her to court, but it is NOT cool to put your friends in the middle of this. It's bad enough that everyone got caught up in all the drama as much as they already have, but that's a step too far.

I wanted to high five Regina when she read Delilah for filth. Truth hurts! I was so mad when Gary interrupted. Let Regina keep telling Delilah why she sucks!

I get that Gary wanted a happier reaction from Maggie finding the engagement ring, but marriage is not the be-all end-all, especially when you've known each other less than a year and especially when that year included the death of a close friend and a bout of cancer. He kept saying he wanted her to commit to their relationship, but you can be in a loving committed monogamous relationship WITHOUT BEING MARRIED.

This woman just had cancer for the second time. I don't see any problem with what she said. She loves him but she needs to figure out who she is now. Why is that a bad thing? You should want your partner to be the best version of themselves. As for his "I want you to want us the way you used to," I had to roll my eyes. You're mad because you think the way that she loves you isn't good enough.

Ever since Gary offered to go to Oxford with Maggie, I've been wondering what they would do with Colin.

What kind of person hears a noise and thinks it might be someone breaking in (hence the golf club) and BRINGS THEIR CHILD TO INVESTIGATE? I know it was all for the ~drama~ so that Theo would hear Sophie say she hated Eddie but seriously.

And what was up with everyone running up to the roof AND THEN just before they open the door, Maggie tells them not to go out there? Couldn't she have done that downstairs?

The big surprise that Dave's hair was still on a sweater that was almost 20 years old made me question why Jon never cleaned that sweater.

A+ for the Goo Goo Dolls but I feel cheated that we didn't get to hear exactly what Delilah said to Sophie and Danny.

F- for the Phil Collins cover though.

F------- for Gina changing her mind about having kids.

I love carbs but man, Gary and Maggie must REALLY love carbs. Look at all that toast!

[debraran]

23 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Am I supposed to feel sorry for Delilah because she's crying in her car about PJ being Jon's son? Maybe she should take those feelings of betrayal and hurt and apply them to her current situation to PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN by telling the kids who Charlie's father really is.

And as shocking as it is for her to find out that Jon had a son, he was single when he knew Barbara. Delilah, on the other hand, was married and cheating and about to leave her husband.

While I'm glad that Delilah accepted PJ so easily into the family, it seemed odd to me that she gave him Jon's watch. Did she not think that Sophie or Danny would want it? When my dad died, his watch was the only thing that my sister wanted.

But she can STFU with her anger at Rome and Gina for keeping PJ a secret from her. They were just waiting for the DNA test results which took a few weeks. She was planning to keep Charlie's parentage a secret FOREVER. I don't care what she has said about wanting to wait until the right time to tell them. We know the truth is that she never wanted to tell Sophie and Danny the truth. All of Delilah's "YOU WERE KEEPING INFORMATION FROM ME ABOUT MY LIFE!" just made me cringe Apparently she doesn't think Charlie, Sophie, Danny, or Theo need information that's pertinent to their lives if it makes her look bad.

And Delilah can go fuck herself with the whole "Regina, you don't have kids so your arguments are not valid." You don't have to squeeze out a baby to know that lying to your children about something like this is a terrible idea.

A lot of people in this group have made mistakes, but Delilah keeps doubling down on hers. Her SHOCK that Eddie would go through legal channels to claim Charlie as his own just made me roll my eyes. Like Eddie said, he tried to talk to her about this but she refused to cooperate so what other option did he have? Just sit back and hope she changed her mind one day?

But I will say that it was shitty of Eddie to ask Gary to talk to Delilah about it. I know he was just trying to avoid taking her to court, but it is NOT cool to put your friends in the middle of this. It's bad enough that everyone got caught up in all the drama as much as they already have, but that's a step too far.

I wanted to high five Regina when she read Delilah for filth. Truth hurts! I was so mad when Gary interrupted. Let Regina keep telling Delilah why she sucks!

I get that Gary wanted a happier reaction from Maggie finding the engagement ring, but marriage is not the be-all end-all, especially when you've known each other less than a year and especially when that year included the death of a close friend and a bout of cancer. He kept saying he wanted her to commit to their relationship, but you can be in a loving committed monogamous relationship WITHOUT BEING MARRIED.

This woman just had cancer for the second time. I don't see any problem with what she said. She loves him but she needs to figure out who she is now. Why is that a bad thing? You should want your partner to be the best version of themselves. As for his "I want you to want us the way you used to," I had to roll my eyes. You're mad because you think the way that she loves you isn't good enough.

Ever since Gary offered to go to Oxford with Maggie, I've been wondering what they would do with Colin.

What kind of person hears a noise and thinks it might be someone breaking in (hence the golf club) and BRINGS THEIR CHILD TO INVESTIGATE? I know it was all for the ~drama~ so that Theo would hear Sophie say she hated Eddie but seriously.

And what was up with everyone running up to the roof AND THEN just before they open the door, Maggie tells them not to go out there? Couldn't she have done that downstairs?

The big surprise that Dave's hair was still on a sweater that was almost 20 years old made me question why Jon never cleaned that sweater.

A+ for the Goo Goo Dolls but I feel cheated that we didn't get to hear exactly what Delilah said to Sophie and Danny.

F- for the Phil Collins cover though.

F------- for Gina changing her mind about having kids.

I love carbs but man, Gary and Maggie must REALLY love carbs. Look at all that toast!

To be fair, the somewhat cool apartment was never really explored, we never got a tour or got to see many of the things up close. I doubt Jon ever did laundry from that apartment and maybe had takeout after work. We never saw the kitchen, bedroom or bathroom. The nice lady across the hall could have told them a lot about  "Jonny" if anyone cared to ask but they didn't. 

Some people after death don't want to wash anything of a loved one because of the smell and it memorializes them in a way. Jon wanted that part of his life the same and maybe for a few seconds, the whole plane thing didn't happen.

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[readster]

7 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I don’t even need an entire hand to count the amount of decent human beings on this show.  That includes Theo, the old lady who got her dog stolen, and Barbara Morgan’s husband who willingly adopted some pregnant lady’s kid and found himself in this mess with these idiots.

Yet, he also committed stupidity with: "OH, we can't tell PJ that his mother's former husband died in 9/11 and his real bio tad out of survivor syndrome couldn't handle things." "98 million? Fuck you, we don't need his dead pity money!" Sorry, and even Barbra going along with all of this is also stupid. She acted like her PTSD firefighter husband was a: "My way or the high way" guy. Sorry, when it is all said and done, Theo, despite being as annoying as he is at times, is the only smart kid in this. Katherine gets points, but at this point, I'm surprised she hasn't joined Sophie and taking guitars and bashing everyone with a guitar. 

  As for Gary, yeah, the chemo didn't help, but he didn't always had to drop everything to help everyone. So, sorry you lost your job Gary, but at some point, you know YOU HAVE TO WORK!

[nexxie]

On the upside, Sophie can kiss PJ now.

[alexvillage]

9 hours ago, LucyEth said:

All Delilah's fears seem like they will come true, her kids are very angry with her, that's too bad.

I am the opinion that people mad a Delilah is not bad at all

8 hours ago, Bubbles said:

Women on TV are rarely allowed to not want kids simply because they don't want them, it has to be because they're broken in some way that can later get fixed to allow them to accept their lady destiny. That, or they get knocked up accidentally and just accept it like they have no options. 

So much this! Nothing to add here.

[Brian Cronin]

A minor point in the midst of all of this nonsense, but damn, Gary, how the fuck do you hide an engagement ring where Maggie could find it? You SAW HER SEARCHING IN THE SPECIFIC PLACE YOU PUT THE RING!

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

On the upside, Sophie can kiss PJ now.

I was half-hoping the entire time they were on the roof that Rome would break the tension by reminding PJ that Sophie is no longer off-limits.

[SunnyBeBe]

Even after taking a major break from this show, last night I  found that nothing much had happened. 

It seemed to me that with Gary and Maggie, he was always doing the rowing in the boat. If he stopped, they would stall. While I get how Gary can be exhausting, Maggie annoys me more. So, if she isn't really into him, why so emotional when he frees her?  I just feel that when someone really loves you and wants to be with you, you know it.  

[Suzn]

12 hours ago, iwasish said:

What the fuck is Gary’s problem? He cheats an old lady out of her rightful property and then comes around to help her out with her decorations? He senses Maggie has one foot the door and he’s looking for a another person who “needs” him? Where’s the beloved Colin? All that angst over a dog and he’s not even seen? Gary needs some major therapy. He’s a mess. 
Will Barbara and Mitch change their minds and accept the money Jon left?

I would have liked to have heard what exactly Delilah told her kids versus Eddies story for Theo. So Sophie smashed Eddie’s  guitars, she should have swung at his head. 

So, since she knew the dog wasn't her Wesley, it made everything alright.  That is bullshit.  It's doesn't make anything better.  It appears that we are supposed to think everything Gary does is good.

ETA - The more I think about it the worse it is.  That she knows the dog isn't Wesley, in no way absolves Gary of the very bad thing he did.  It could have all been done right and honestly with Colin being returned and the shelter dog being given a home.  I'm sure Gary could have explained how much Colin meant to him and visited him, knowing that the dog was back to his own home.  He could have adopted the shelter dog - not as a replacement, but because it was good thing to do and he would find that he could love that dog.  Everybody is relatively happy, including the dogs.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Suzn

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Well a 2 month wait to see how this all pans out.  Delilah's kids did not take it well.  All Delilah's fears seem like they will come true, her kids are very angry with her, that's too bad.   I guess she will be furious with Catherine and Eddie now.

They were never going to take it well at first, but a year's worth of lies is easier to deal with (eventually) than a lifetime of lies.

11 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Hope Eddie’s guitars are insured. I don’t know why teenagers think they have the right to destroy property, but I guess it’s better than hitting people.#hatingonsophienow

I'm not sure I'd lay all property destruction on teenagers (having seen grown ass adults do similar things), but in Sophie's case, I'm kind of okay with it. Guitars were her connection with Eddie, and he betrayed her trust just as deeply as her mother did.

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I was kinda hoping she'd at least say she wanted to adopt an older kid instead of a baby. If she really wants to 'save' someone...

Yeah, I hated that they had her give in, but would have thought "saving" is really more about older kids, since babies tend to get adopted pretty easily.

11 hours ago, iwasish said:

I think that’s her intention,  between the restaurant and Rome’s job, they don’t need an infant. 

She specifically said baby, as I heard it.

5 hours ago, debraran said:

What I didn't like was how the writers thought that made it "ok" now that she knew and didn't care. Some fans feel the same way. What they leave out is the big LIE that Gary has the woman's dog and she never knew there was two, she thought poor Gary thought he returned the right one. She made peace with it, but how weird is that with helping her?

That bugged me too. She was okay with it because she didn't know the full story. As for the comments that Gary going there was weird, I think it was out of guilt. By helping her, he could convince himself he wasn't so bad. Her absolving him pissed me off.

So, all of the plot points did pay off, even though they were set up stupidly (the DNA, the Dog, Lies vs Truth, etc.)

For all that Gary and Maggie are aggravating, I actually thought the breakup scene was pretty well done, and that they respective "sides" were both valid (though Maggie is not "without cancer," just without imminent threat of death). I hated that Gary went right after a woman, but that has been established as his method of soothing himself.

Also, kudos to Rome for keeping PJ from going off the roof - but I can't forget that he's the one who aided and abetted the DNA testing, which was based on false assumptions. So he has a fair bit of responsibility there.

I was actually moved in several scenes, but I really hated: it's okay it's not the same dog; Maggie finding the engagement ring; Regina changes her mind; Gary going "on a break;" any and everything Delilah related.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Clanstarling

[SunnyBeBe]

I was startled by that pile of bread too!  I can't recall the last time I had 6 pieces of toast for breakfast! 

[debraran]

37 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

They were never going to take it well at first, but a year's worth of lies is easier to deal with (eventually) than a lifetime of lies.

I'm not sure I'd lay all property destruction on teenagers (having seen grown ass adults do similar things), but in Sophie's case, I'm kind of okay with it. Guitars were her connection with Eddie, and he betrayed her trust just as deeply as her mother did.

Yeah, I hated that they had her give in, but would have thought "saving" is really more about older kids, since babies tend to get adopted pretty easily.

She specifically said baby, as I heard it.

That bugged me too. She was okay with it because she didn't know the full story. As for the comments that Gary going there was weird, I think it was out of guilt. By helping her, he could convince himself he wasn't so bad. Her absolving him pissed me off.

So, all of the plot points did pay off, even though they were set up stupidly (the DNA, the Dog, Lies vs Truth, etc.)

For all that Gary and Maggie are aggravating, I actually thought the breakup scene was pretty well done, and that they respective "sides" were both valid (though Maggie is not "without cancer," just without imminent threat of death). I hated that Gary went right after a woman, but that has been established as his method of soothing himself.

Also, kudos to Rome for keeping PJ from going off the roof - but I can't forget that he's the one who aided and abetted the DNA testing, which was based on false assumptions. So he has a fair bit of responsibility there.

I was actually moved in several scenes, but I really hated: it's okay it's not the same dog; Maggie finding the engagement ring; Regina changes her mind; Gary going "on a break;" any and everything Delilah related.

I do agree.  Rome is smarter than that re DNA but you say what they write.

I’m not sure why the Oxford thing was brought up ( a way of getting rid of her next year? ) but time will tell. ( and  I’m sure a lot of tweets) lol

[iwasish]

These people are all too enmeshed in each other’s lives, especially Gary. He loses his job because he’s so far up their asses?  His need to be needed or seen as some super fabulous friend isn’t normal. And most if not all chemo therapies now a days are not as debilitating as they used to be in terms of getting sick from the chemo itself. My mom lost some of her hair and was tired, but they gave her anti nausea and anti diarrheal drugs prior to the chemo infusion. She actually preferred us to drop her off and pick her up. She didn’t want us using vacation  time to sit and hold her hand. I was lucky that my boss just said “ do what you need to do”  . So I used some vacation and also worked evenings and weekends to get my job done. Gary let’s his need to be the best most supportive boyfriend and friend over ride his common sense.  Now he’s throwing his job loss  in everyone’s face. He can’t guilt them into fixing the mess they’ve made of their lives. 

[ams1001]

12 minutes ago, iwasish said:

These people are all too enmeshed in each other’s lives, especially Gary. He loses his job because he’s so far up their asses?  His need to be needed or seen as some super fabulous friend isn’t normal. And most if not all chemo therapies now a days are not as debilitating as they used to be in terms of getting sick from the chemo itself. My mom lost some of her hair and was tired, but they gave her anti nausea and anti diarrheal drugs prior to the chemo infusion. She actually preferred us to drop her off and pick her up. She didn’t want us using vacation  time to sit and hold her hand. I was lucky that my boss just said “ do what you need to do”  . So I used some vacation and also worked evenings and weekends to get my job done. Gary let’s his need to be the best most supportive boyfriend and friend over ride his common sense.  Now he’s throwing his job loss  in everyone’s face. He can’t guilt them into fixing the mess they’ve made of their lives. 

My mom had surgery last year and my dad texted us from the waiting room periodically to update us, then she was in the hospital for a few days afterward, and we didn't see her until she got home (I live in the same town and my brother is about half an hour away, and we both easily could have taken time off if we needed to), because she didn't want visitors.

I can't know for sure, not having been in that situation, but I suspect if I were getting chemo I wouldn't want someone like Gary sitting with me the whole time. Might not want anyone, actually, but if I did it would be someone who would just sit quietly and be there. Gary is just too much most of the time.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was startled by that pile of bread too!  I can't recall the last time I had 6 pieces of toast for breakfast! 

Not only are there six pieces of toast on the small plate but Maggie has two more pieces of toast on the plate with her eggs! Do these two go through an entire loaf of bread each day?

[readster]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

They were never going to take it well at first, but a year's worth of lies is easier to deal with (eventually) than a lifetime of lies.

I'm not sure I'd lay all property destruction on teenagers (having seen grown ass adults do similar things), but in Sophie's case, I'm kind of okay with it. Guitars were her connection with Eddie, and he betrayed her trust just as deeply as her mother did.

Exactly and if anything Delilah saw that with both Jon's hidden past and Barbara Morgan and her husband. I mean seriously, they made it out like it was the "forbidden speak". When really, like about several thousand people who were effected by 9/11. Instead it was: "I'll step up because my fallen brotheren would want me to take in a pregnant woman who lost her husband and the asshole best friend who felt guilt and couldn't deal with it." Yeah, because the solution is to lie about everything, be an asshole and then be: "Jon is dead, WE DO NOT SPEAK TO ANYONE ELSE! We can't prove I've been a self absorbed idiot who comes across as controlling and abusive." 

[izabella]

None of this PJ-Barbara stuff makes any sense.  There was no reason to hide who his father was.  Truly, no reason at all.  Certainly, once he started asking questions, they could and should have told him, but they should have told him when he was young that his stepfather was raising him because his dad died in 9/11. 

The scene last season with Barbara stalking Delilah and watching the house and saying "but they're so happy" makes absolutely no sense.  There was nothing for her to tell Delilah that would make her unhappy, so why was she dithering in the car as though she had gone over there to tell her some big news and chickened out.  What was that scene about?

And then, when PJ got into school, again, why not say there is money, you can go?  If the reason for not telling him who his father is was to protect PJ, how is denying him an opportunity to follow his dreams a good thing that protects PJ?

[Brian Cronin]

People typically do attend chemo with their loved ones, if possible. So that's normal. Not to the point of losing their jobs, of course, but otherwise, it's normal. 

Honestly, I know we've all slowly come to the realization that Delilah is almost certainly a narcissist, but I am beginning to think that Gary might be one, too, which actually would explain why they get along so well. 

He is very helpful to his friends, but there always seem to be a catch, a sort of "you owe me" aspect to it all. That has clearly been the case with his relationship with Maggie, as well. 

Really, though, I think it's probably a testament to how shitty of a writer Nash is, that inadvertently the characters all end up being narcissists despite that clearly not being his intent (there's no way he thinks Gary is anything but a good guy). 

[SunnyBeBe]

37 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

People typically do attend chemo with their loved ones, if possible. So that's normal. Not to the point of losing their jobs, of course, but otherwise, it's normal. 

Honestly, I know we've all slowly come to the realization that Delilah is almost certainly a narcissist, but I am beginning to think that Gary might be one, too, which actually would explain why they get along so well. 

He is very helpful to his friends, but there always seem to be a catch, a sort of "you owe me" aspect to it all. That has clearly been the case with his relationship with Maggie, as well. 

Really, though, I think it's probably a testament to how shitty of a writer Nash is, that inadvertently the characters all end up being narcissists despite that clearly not being his intent (there's no way he thinks Gary is anything but a good guy). 

This is a good point. I hadn't considered that Gary could be a narcissist. If so, Maggie should run for her life. It's hard to describe, but, they will suck you dry, exhaust you and then blame you for taking up space.  The only thing is that Gary does seem to be pretty devoted to his friends.  The narcissist that I know have few, true friends, as the friends figure them out and cut things off.  The only people who stay around only see one side of them.  And, they are kept at arm's length.

[SpiritSong]

34 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

This is a good point. I hadn't considered that Gary could be a narcissist. If so, Maggie should run for her life. It's hard to describe, but, they will suck you dry, exhaust you and then blame you for taking up space.  The only thing is that Gary does seem to be pretty devoted to his friends.  The narcissist that I know have few, true friends, as the friends figure them out and cut things off.  The only people who stay around only see one side of them.  And, they are kept at arm's length.

I don't think Gary is a narcissist, but that dude is seriously messed up. As a therapist or psychologist or whatever the hell Maggie is, shouldn't she have been aware of that? But then, this is a woman who steals an old lady's dog, so... I think the main problem is they're both assholes. But then so are all the other adult characters on the show except Rome, Regina and Katherine.

Add me to the chorus of those disgusted by Regina suddenly wanting to be a mother. Writers on tv shows simply CANNOT wrap their heads around women who do not want to spawn. And I'm certainly no expert, but doesn't it take years to adopt a baby? And from what I've read it's not cheap. Did Rome and Regina come into some money we don't know about? They should take in a foster kid to get an idea of what parenting is like, but of course that would be too realistic for this show. Actually, I'd be good with them learning that there is a 5 year waiting list for an infant, because this show will be cancelled long before then.