S03.E09: Imbroglio

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

While a government stalemate with mineworkers leads to nationwide power cuts, Charles's family intervenes in his deepening relationship with Camilla.

 

Dropping on Netflix on Sunday, November 17, 2019.

[Roseanna]

In the show, Andew Parker Bowles and Camilla Shand had been a couple, but he had cheated and she wants to revenge him. He goes alone to the reception of some kind and meets Princess Anne and has sex with her - she knows it's just fun and doesn't get herself burned. But when Prince Charles meets Camilla, he falls hard for her and doesn't realize that he isn't her only guy even in the time of their relationship.

Lord Mountbatten has encouraged Charles to have a relationship with Camilla but thinks that there are girls whom one marries and girls with whom one has fun, gets alarmed that Charles may propose to Camilla. He arranges him a naval post faraway whereas the Queen Mother tells the parents of Andrew and Camilla to get them married. Charles asks Camilla if she loves Andrew and she answers yes in away but she has also begun to like Charles the more thet have been together.

On the basis of this, if the young Charles had married Camilla, there had been three also in that marriage, just as Anne said to her family.

 

Charles seemed to believe the version of the duke of Windsor presented to him and in the TV interview: he wanted to modernize the monarchy and therefore the Court and his family wanted him out even before Wallis. Both were simply self-delusion. 

The duke of Windsor seemed his Janus-face in the end: he was civil to Elizabeth as she was to her, but he betrayed Charles's confidence by giving his letter to his mother.   

[lorbeer]

Judging only by the episode and the show itself I think it's good Charles never become a king. In the episode I found him a spoiled brat who wanted to do what he wanted no matter the consequences. It kinda makes you think that Queen Elizabeth wanted to do whatever she could to keep him out of 'the crown'.

Also I think the actress that plays Camilla looks nothing like her. That casting is tedious.

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, lorbeer said:

In the episode I found him a spoiled brat who wanted to do what he wanted no matter the consequences. 

Well, I think the actor shows good his self-pity which makes hard to to like him despite the way his parents have behaved him. Which seems horrible to day but was common in the upper-class at the time.

[Umbelina]

Every once in a while Olivia Colman gets this look on her face, that semi-frown nearly blank, but still maniacal look she gets while "thinking."  I can't help it, it reminds me so much of her role as Queen Anne in The Favorite that it throws me into thinking Elizabeth  is mad, as in, about to go around the bend, not angry.

I know it's inevitable, since the same actress played both roles, but dang if it isn't spooking me at times.  She does it quite a bit in this episode, and I keep expecting her to break out with "RUB MY LEGS!"

Well well, that certainly was a show of complete support for Charles' love of Camilla.  Interesting choice writers.

[swanpride]

Was it? Honestly, it felt like it was more a support for having the romance play out so that they both could either get it out of their system or end up being happy with each other. I mean, the show outright says that Camilla used Charles to make the guy she was madly in love with jealous. Doesn't really show the relationship in a good light.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Was it? Honestly, it felt like it was more a support for having the romance play out so that they both could either get it out of their system or end up being happy with each other. I mean, the show outright says that Camilla used Charles to make the guy she was madly in love with jealous. Doesn't really show the relationship in a good light.

It really doesn't. She used him to make another man jealous. How is that good start? Or romantic? Or anything but her using him. For all her saying she loved him she didn't drop Andrew. She was still with him So how much did she really love her? Its hard to imagine that Charles should ever want anything to do with her after that. He can't blame his family for splitting him up because she was the one who kept seeing someone else.

I loved Anne when she was being questioned. Her lines were so honest and hilarious. So honest about "playing" with Andrew to her parents, grandmother and great-uncle. No nerves or nothing. I'd love Philip's reaction after that scene. I loved her snark as she left about how she behaved. 

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It really doesn't. She used him to make another man jealous. How is that good start? Or romantic? Or anything but her using him. For all her saying she loved him she didn't drop Andrew. She was still with him So how much did she really love her? Its hard to imagine that Charles should ever want anything to do with her after that. He can't blame his family for splitting him up because she was the one who kept seeing someone else.

I agree. 

But that both Andrew and Camilla cheated, it wasn't a good start to their marriage, either.

[Bananna]

Princess Anne has replaced Tommy Lascelles as the palace's resident deadpan snarker.

Blasting and singing Starman whilst driving is honestly a mood and a half.

[swanpride]

It think that is less related to this specific story and more because times changed. Nowadays nobody really cares if the spouse is a noble or virginal or whatever, as long as the candidate can pass as respectable.

[Ohiopirate02]

Does this show actually want us to believe that David and Wallis was "true love"?  I feel like season 1 and 2 Wallis was only tolerating David.  I always got the feeling that each one was using the other.  David to be able abdicate his responsibilities, and Wallis got a fun rich man.   She knew he was an overgrown adolescent that she would be able to lead by the nose.  

Also I fail to see any parallel to Charles and Camilla.  

[kieyra]

Season so far in general: aside from Margaret’s episode and the coal tragedy episode, this whole season has felt like it’s all about the boys. Which is fine except it’s a criminal waste of Olivia Colman. (And Helena Bonham Carter, for that matter.)

Tobias Menzies handled the Philip transition flawlessly, but goddamn if he hasn’t gotten more screen-time than she has. And I was already sick of listening to Philip gripe back in season one. 

And apparently the setup for the requisite Prince Charles stuff means Charles Dance has to eat the other half of Olivia Colman’s potential screen-time. 

I know the show is “The Crown”,  not “QE2”, but yeah, I’m salty. 

[Ravenya003]

Princess Anne is a hoot. "I do hope that wasn't too emotional for you all."

Also, quite a sneaky little line they slid in there with Anne commenting that there would be "three in the marriage." Hmm, who else famously uttered that phrase?

There's been a bit of a retcon with Wallis and the Duke suddenly coming across as this great, tragic love story - I would have liked to have seen them trying to get that image across (especially to Charles, for the sake of shit-stirring) while being more like a normal, squabbling couple in private. Surely Wallis's comments to Charles at the wake ("don't ever turn your back on true love") were designed to mess with the royals, right?

I got a big laugh out of the scene at the wake when Charles looks at his extended family staring back and him, and later at the giant painting of his mother on the office wall, accompanied by that grim musical cue. It played like something out of a horror movie!

Also, when the family debated over who would be the one to tell Charles about Camilla's love affair with Andrew PB, I found myself thinking: "what a bunch of weirdos." Truly, what strange lives they lead.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ravenya003

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

There's been a bit of a retcon with Wallis and the Duke suddenly coming across as this great, tragic love story - I would have liked to have seen them trying to get that image across (especially to Charles, for the sake of shit-stirring) while being more like a normal, squabbling couple in private. Surely Wallis's comments to Charles at the wake ("don't ever turn your back on true love") were designed to mess with the royals, right?

I got a big laugh out of the scene at the wake when Charles looks at his extended family staring back and him, and later at the giant painting of his mother on the office wall, accompanied by that grim musical cue. It played like something out of a horror movie!

Also, when the family debated over who would be the one to tell Charles about Camilla's love affair with Andrew PB, I found myself thinking: "what a bunch of weirdos." Truly, what strange lives they lead.

I don't know.  I think it was a retcon because we got a shot of Wallis alone in France clutching David's picture.  I would expect Wallis to mourn the passing of her husband and the passing of her lavish lifestyle, but that gesture seemed too over-the-top.  Wallis was also smart enough to know the time and place to mess with the royals.  Immediately after the death of her husband would not be the time.  Elizabeth holds the purse strings best not to piss her off too much.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Every once in a while Olivia Colman gets this look on her face, that semi-frown nearly blank, but still maniacal look she gets while "thinking."  I can't help it, it reminds me so much of her role as Queen Anne in The Favorite that it throws me into thinking Elizabeth  is mad, as in, about to go around the bend, not angry.

Heh, there really should be a rule that an actress can only play one Queen. I swear, between Helen Mirren, Judy Dench and Olivia Colman, the female British monarchs have all been played by the same people. 

[Ellaria]

So PM Heath was frightened of the Queen’s cute little corgies? OK, then. Lord Mountbatten and Tywin Lannister have a lot in common. 

This is beginning to feel like the season of what is/isn’t “true love” unfortunately. First, the implication that the Duke and Duchess were a love story for the ages, even though it appeared that they could barely tolerate each other last season. Then an entire episode about breaking up Charles and Camilla with the Queen initially supporting their romance.

The second half of this season has been devoted to igniting the spark that will blowup in the near future. And while it may have been the necessary path, there are stories/events along the way that have been ignored or given short shrift. I understand the Charles is a pivotal character but we are only being shown his adult life in context of romance. Not thrilled !

At least Marion Bailey was finally given something to do. Yay! And Anne is awesome. Loved her in the candlelight scene with her family.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ellaria Sand

[tennisgurl]

Hold on, the PM is scared of the cute little corgis? Doesn't make him look like the kind of guy I trust to be tough but also smart enough to handle this whole strike mess. 

Anne is my favorite person in the palace, her non reaction to her family wanting to know about her relationship with Andrew was so hilariously frank. "I hope I wasnt too hysterical for you." 

Elizabeth, just tell Charles that you all hate David because he was super into the Nazis back in the day, that should end him trying to model his life after him. What a mess this all already is, and will become even worse.

[SeanC]

I had never heard of the power cuts caused by the 1974 miners’ strike, and was baffled that any government would think that such a catastrophic disruption to everyday life would ever work out for them electorally.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

I had never heard of the power cuts caused by the 1974 miners’ strike, and was baffled that any government would think that such a catastrophic disruption to everyday life would ever work out for them electorally.

Again, this is a place where I feel as if the writers failed.

Businesses limited to, what was it, THREE days a week?  Imagine what that did to the people who depended on a regular pay check, for rent, for food, for everything!  The impact was shown on the royal family, oh, poor them, they had to have hundreds of candles burning at times.  What about the regular people, couldn't they have managed to at least show the financial hardships, not to mention physical hardships of that?  What about the hospitals, operating "by torchlight" indeed!

[Gareth3]

If the government had a negotiator who actually had worked in a coal mine, would the union listen to him? As for the other story, never get involved in a love rectangle with your own sister, it makes the partner notifications very awkward.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Gareth3 said:

If the government had a negotiator who actually had worked in a coal mine, would the union listen to him? As for the other story, never get involved in a love rectangle with your own sister, it makes the partner notifications very awkward.

I think the episode made it perfectly clear, especially with and in the two previous Wales episodes, that the UK didn't give a damn about Wales, except what they could exploit from it to benefit England.  

[Cheezwiz]

Good grief, someone just dump the Marburg files in Charles' lap already! Sorry Chuck, but Uncle David was not a forward thinking individualist, he was a probable Nazi, and a lazy feckless sod to boot.

On 11/19/2019 at 2:55 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Does this show actually want us to believe that David and Wallis was "true love"?  I feel like season 1 and 2 Wallis was only tolerating David.  I always got the feeling that each one was using the other.

This was probably much closer to the truth. People close to Wallis said that she initially had no real intention to marry Edward, but wound up getting trapped in a marriage with him, and permanently exiled. They weren't a grand love story, but they certainly deserved one another. 

13 hours ago, SeanC said:

I had never heard of the power cuts caused by the 1974 miners’ strike, and was baffled that any government would think that such a catastrophic disruption to everyday life would ever work out for them electorally.

Me neither - that seemed utterly bizarre. And you KNOW the Prime Minister ain't right if he doesn't like corgis! I don't know anything about the real Heath, but the show is certainly portraying him as a major turd.

These final episodes are clearly all a set-up for future marital shit-storms, but the writing feels very off-kilter somehow this season. They've kind of done an about-face on Edward & Wallis, and seem to have dropped any nuance in the Queen's reactions.

[Gareth3]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think the episode made it perfectly clear, especially with and in the two previous Wales episodes, that the UK didn't give a damn about Wales, except what they could exploit from it to benefit England.  

I'd nit-pick that they weren't Welsh in that episode, but you could replace "Wales" with "coal miners" and still be accurate here.

[Paloma]

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

the writing feels very off-kilter somehow this season. They've kind of done an about-face on Edward & Wallis, and seem to have dropped any nuance in the Queen's reactions.

Between the about-face on the character and relationship of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor and the differences in how Elizabeth reacts, especially with Charles, from one episode to the next, I feel like we are being whiplashed by the writers--it's like they are trying out different things to see what sticks, or maybe trying to show complex characters but not knowing how to do it.

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

it's like they are trying out different things to see what sticks, or maybe trying to show complex characters but not knowing how to do it.

It's very strange - almost as if they've passed the duties on to a team of rookie writers or something! Don't go Game of Thrones on us show!

[Paloma]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:06 AM, Ravenya003 said:

Also, quite a sneaky little line they slid in there with Anne commenting that there would be "three in the marriage." Hmm, who else famously uttered that phrase?

That was hilarious. And learning about the love or sex rectangle, I'm sure I'm not the only one who was wondering if the shenanigans ever happened at the same time in the palace--in other words, if Charles had Camilla over while Anne had Andrew PB over at the "apartment" Charles and Anne shared.  

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Gotta love the royals' nonplussed reactions when Anne basically said "Yeah, me and APB had a fling. So what?"

[heavysnaxx]

On 11/19/2019 at 5:18 AM, Helena Dax said:

Elizabeth should have told Charles about David's Nazi past.

This. It's ridiculous of Elizabeth to expect Charles to have good judgement when she withholds the most critical information available about his uncle. I would say she failed in her duty when she failed to counsel the future monarch on how loyalties can be betrayed. Perhaps she wasn't permitted to sit even him down with the files but she could - and should - have explained the true depths of David's treachery.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, you gotta wonder how the government saw this all playing out, and how they could possibly come out if this looking good. I don’t really know much about the coal miners strike and the government’s reaction to it, but they HAD to see this as being a PR nightmare at the very least, never mind the human suffering and risk to public health. “Yeah it sucks that you people are freezing and hungry and living in the dark ages, but sacrifices must be made so we don’t have to give more money to people that do a dangerous and vital job, some of whom are probably still reeling from that avalanche that killed a bunch of their children!”

[txhorns79]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:37 PM, Umbelina said:

The impact was shown on the royal family, oh, poor them, they had to have hundreds of candles burning at times. 

I was amazed they didn't burn down the palace given that it felt like about a million candles were put in place anytime the lights went out. 

[benteen]

I had to laugh at the shot before the credits with Charles family staring at him.  It seemed like something out of a horror movie.  I wouldn't mind seeing that movie.

The show continues to absolutely nail it when it comes to casting Prime Ministers.  Heath's speech to the union leader was good.  

I didn't know about the power outages either.  I know economically the U.S. was in poor shape during the 70s but didn't realize the U.K. was in bad shape as well.

Edited November 25, 2019 by benteen

[MaggieG]

On 11/17/2019 at 4:19 PM, lorbeer said:

Judging only by the episode and the show itself I think it's good Charles never become a king. In the episode I found him a spoiled brat who wanted to do what he wanted no matter the consequences. It kinda makes you think that Queen Elizabeth wanted to do whatever she could to keep him out of 'the crown'.

Well Charles isn't a King yet, but he will be one day. And QE can't really keep him from the Crown, when she dies, it's his. Unless he abdicates which I highly doubt. I agree that it's good he never became a King at that age. 

I laughed when Elizabeth tried to ring her bell to dismiss Heath, realized the power was out and had to pick up an actual bell and ring it.

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

Well Charles isn't a King yet, but he will be one day. And QE can't really keep him from the Crown, when she dies, it's his. Unless he abdicates which I highly doubt. I agree that it's good he never became a King at that age. 

I laughed when Elizabeth tried to ring her bell to dismiss Heath, realized the power was out and had to pick up an actual bell and ring it.

Maybe.  The Brits could decide they've finally had enough of monarchy once the Queen dies.  (Discussing it in the tabloids thread BTW)

Yeah, the bell was fun.

[WatchrTina]

On 11/22/2019 at 1:23 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Good grief, someone just dump the Marburg files in Charles' lap already! Sorry Chuck, but Uncle David was not a forward thinking individualist, he was a probable Nazi, and a lazy feckless sod to boot.

Yes and the thing they REALLY need to bring to Charles' attention is the fact that Uncle Nazi had a plan to usurp the throne from Charles' Grandfather, King George VI.  Charles would still be heir to the throne in that case (since it seems abundantly clear that Uncle Nazi and Mrs. Simpson were not going to produce an heir themselves) but I'd LIKE to think that Charles would be sufficiently loyal to his grandfather and mother to be FURIOUS that uncle Edward was plotting with his Nazi friends to depose King George.

Edited November 26, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Cheezwiz]

15 hours ago, benteen said:

I didn't know about the power outages either.  I know economically the U.S. was in poor shape during the 70s but didn't realize the U.K. was in bad shape as well.

Sadly the UK suffered terribly following WWII. They did not seem to have the huge economic boost from wartime factory production, nor the healthy economy from the post war consumer boom the way the U.S. did. They were still doing rationing well into the 1950's. I always assumed there was an economic uptick during the swinging '60's, but from the sounds of their bailout needs on the show, that didn't happen. I knew the 70's were very bleak economically - all kinds of strike actions, restraint measures, (plus the troubles in Northern Ireland), but I had no idea that they resorted to doing power cuts as depicted in the show!

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Yes but the thing they need to bring to Charles' attention is the fact that Uncle Nazi had a plan to usurp the throne from Charles' Grandfather, King George VI.  Charles would still be heir to the throne in that case (since it seems abundantly clear that Uncle Nazi and Mrs. Simpson were not going to produce an heir themselves) but I'd LIKE to think that Charles would be sufficiently loyal to his grandfather and mother to be FURIOUS that uncle Edward was plotting with his Nazi friends to depose King George.

Charles probably would hae ceased to like Uncle David, but that wouldn't do anything to the basic dilemma which is individualism/egoism vs. duty.

More in the monarchy thread.

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Sadly the UK suffered terribly following WWII. They did not seem to have the huge economic boost from wartime factory production, nor the healthy economy from the post war consumer boom the way the U.S. did. They were still doing rationing well into the 1950's. I always assumed there was an economic uptick during the swinging '60's, but from the sounds of their bailout needs on the show, that didn't happen. I knew the 70's were very bleak economically - all kinds of strike actions, restraint measures, (plus the troubles in Northern Ireland), but I had no idea that they resorted to doing power cuts as depicted in the show!

Compared to other countries (save the US that bebefitted the war enourmously), the UK didn't suffer "terribly" as only 0,94 % of popution lost their lives (which of course was terrible to them and their loved ones).  

Britain was bombed, but it wasn't occupied (not to speak of occupied three times!), there was rationing but no famine, it lost no territory from where the population had to leave in haste with only what they could carry), there were no mass murders, no mass rapes, no guerilla war, millions didn't become slave laborers or refugees etc. After the war, there was no total change of political system, guerilla war nor new deportations.

During the WW2, Britain had to give concessions to the US in order to safeguard the latter's support. After the war, it had no resources to maintain its empire neither its traditional sphere of influence as it f.ex. during the Greek Civil War when the US stepped in.

However, notice that Germany that lost the war and was totally destroyed and had millions of refugees of the East, recoved rapidly. Unlike in Britain, there was due that there was no old infrastructure but had to build a new one.

The the miner's homes in Aberfee show how old-fashioned Britain was in the middle of 60ies.

Plus, however much I like Tommy Lascelles, it was men like him that looked too much at the past and therefore prevented modernization that would have needed in order to compete successfully in the world market.

The uncompromising stance of Prime Minister Heath shows how polarized country Britain was.    

[Razzberry]

This entire "imbroglio" was much ado about nothing.  I don't believe Charles was ready to marry anyone at that point and doubt he was even in love (whatever that means).   I'm sure he enjoyed her company more than most girls as she "got" him in a way that others didn't, but pretty sure this heartbroken look never happened:

or this:

A lot of retconning going on.

[Magnumfangirl]

There is definitely a lot of retconning going on with Uncle D and W and with Camilla and Charles, but Anne's comment about Camilla being obsessed with Andrew rang true.  Camilla started dating Andrew when she was 17 and he was 25 and they were on and off for 7 years, so it's believable that she would be determined to get Andrew to the altar before some other girl did; especially if she knew girls like Anne were dissing her behind her back.  It's interesting that the Queen wasn't really opposed to Camilla until she found out about Andrew.  I do wonder how Anne and Camilla get along today.  I'm sure the show is embellishing some of this, but it's got to be awkward if your sister-in-law used to "see" your ex-husband and is still friendly with him.

[teddysmom]

On 11/19/2019 at 8:07 PM, kieyra said:

Season so far in general: aside from Margaret’s episode and the coal tragedy episode, this whole season has felt like it’s all about the boys. Which is fine except it’s a criminal waste of Olivia Colman. (And Helena Bonham Carter, for that matter.)

Tobias Menzies handled the Philip transition flawlessly, but goddamn if he hasn’t gotten more screen-time than she has. And I was already sick of listening to Philip gripe back in season one. 

And apparently the setup for the requisite Prince Charles stuff means Charles Dance has to eat the other half of Olivia Colman’s potential screen-time. 

I know the show is “The Crown”,  not “QE2”, but yeah, I’m salty. 

I wonder if there just wasn't that much drama going on with the Queen during this period, that the other characters were in a transitional phase.  I heard an interview with Peter Morgan and they state the show is about the Royal Family as a whole, with of course Elizabeth being the main player. 

I like Olivia but I don't mind seeing how Phillip, Charles et al fared during this period.  I do recall that while Charles is gone, Camilla decided to marry Parker Bowles, but apparently they kept on their affair.  So was it really true love between them, or Charles was just obsessed with the one who got away? 

Geraldine Chapman is great as Wallis, she certainly looks as frail as Wallis did. 

[Roseanna]

In this episode the Queen showed concern towards miners when discussing Prime Minister Heath who now seemed "cold" and rigid, not to speak of miscalculating politically.

Maybe PM Wilson told Elizabeth how "ordinary people" live and think?

[DianeDobbler]

I just recently binged watch the whole series including 3. I'm always then reading up on how historically accurate it is.

Camilla is well cast. As a young woman she had a lot of hair, a lot of bosom, a square face, strong jaw and chin, and wonderful blue eyes.  They got that right. They're not going to find an actress in Britain with Camilla-type or aristo-type teeth. 

It's a conceit of The Crown that Camilla and Andrew were locked in a drama or that Andrew gave rip about making her jealous or it was one of those tempestuous things. Everything I've read says that's not the real life situation. He behaved consistently - i.e., always had lots of other women and Camilla could take it or leave it.  Anne's version of the Camilla/Andrew relationship (that she just wanted to make Andrew jealous) was what she heard from Andrew's side of things and how does she know Camilla only wanted to make Andrew jealous other than from him in the in-story Crown version of things. 

I do feel sorry for Charles; I think he is a tempermental mismatch with his entire family.

Erin Doherty is terrific as Anne. Not only a dead ringer but she has that deadpan, lockjaw demeanor with the merest twinkle in her eye and twitch at the corner of her mouth that is exactly like what I've seen of the real thing. I think the Crown makes the whole thing much more of an imbroglio than this thing actually was. Rather than an imbroglio, it was sequential more than simultaneous, with Camilla and Charles consistently doubling back to each other when on breaks from other love interests.

P.S. I didn't see The Favorite, but Olivia Coleman's expression when the queen gives a brief, mirthless smile is exactly like Carol Burnett's when she sends up the queen.

Edited November 27, 2019 by DianeDobbler

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It never ceases to amuse/confuse me when Philip and Elizabeth stand in the doorway of each other's room to have conversations. That would drive me crazy. Just get in here so we can talk like normal people!

Anne's deadpan humor has been the highlight of this season. It makes me wish I could see Anne and Tommy talking about everyone.

I'm really not interested in the Charles/Camilla story but I guess they have to set it up now. Did they have to devote almost everything in this episode to it though?

[Ellaria]

13 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It never ceases to amuse/confuse me when Philip and Elizabeth stand in the doorway of each other's room to have conversations. That would drive me crazy. Just get in here so we can talk like normal people!

Anne's deadpan humor has been the highlight of this season. It makes me wish I could see Anne and Tommy talking about everyone.

I'm really not interested in the Charles/Camilla story but I guess they have to set it up now. Did they have to devote almost everything in this episode to it though?

I find that hilarious as well. I especially enjoy it when they are wearing their fancy pjs/robes.

I'm not surprised by the amount of time devoted to their story. After all...well...we know what's coming. However, I wish that I had learned more about the relationship itself (what was the attraction between them, etc). Camilla is still a bit of an enigma to me. I didn't sense warmth from their relationship. IMO, it played as if naive Charles was infatuated with this much more sophisticated woman who didn't return the depth of his feelings. Not sure that's what they were going for.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Ellaria Sand

[andromeda331]

41 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I find that hilarious as well. I especially enjoy it when they are wearing their fancy pjs/robes.

I'm not surprised by the amount of time devoted to their story. After all...well...we know what's coming. However, I wish that I had learned more about the relationship itself (what was the attraction between them, etc). Camilla is still a bit of an enigma to me. I didn't sense warmth from their relationship. IMO, it played as if naive Charles was infatuated with this much more sophisticated woman who didn't return the depth of his feelings. Not sure that's what they were going for.

I'm really not sure either. I was curious on how they'd tactical the relationship. The epic love? The BRF tore them apart? In a relationship and it fell a part for various reasons not ready to marry, a fight, grew apart or something. Nope instead they went with Camilla using Charles to make Andrew jealous make us wonder why Charles would ever want to see her again. Sure she says she loves him but she was still with Andrew the entire time and even in that moment she's still with Andrew. Why would they chose this story? What were they going for?

[dubbel zout]

Did this episode mention how the coal strike was resolved? I was kind of dozing in and out. It wasn't the most riveting, even though I did enjoy Anne singing "Starman." I thought the DoW's burial was handled nicely, and the language of his interment was beautiful. So baroque.

[Roseanna]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm really not sure either. I was curious on how they'd tactical the relationship. The epic love? The BRF tore them apart? In a relationship and it fell a part for various reasons not ready to marry, a fight, grew apart or something. Nope instead they went with Camilla using Charles to make Andrew jealous make us wonder why Charles would ever want to see her again. Sure she says she loves him but she was still with Andrew the entire time and even in that moment she's still with Andrew. Why would they chose this story? What were they going for?

Actually Camilla did tell Charles that she loved Andrew - although after a pause she added "in a way". But it was made clear that the more they were together, the more she liked Charles but clearly she wasn't in love with him. 

After calling her, Charles learned that he was a fool - or rather, she made a fool of him. Is that really a basis for an eduring love?

But I agree with you that it was a curious tale. Charles told other people that he was going to propose to Camilla but he never told her even that he was in love with her.   

The only thing that rings true is that Camilla couldn't have an inkling that Charles could have any other aim with her than have fun for the moment. And as a sensible and un-ambitious girl she didn't even try to get more. 

More in the thread Season 3 History beyond the episode.

[Calamity Jane]

On 11/25/2019 at 3:15 PM, WatchrTina said:

Yes and the thing they REALLY need to bring to Charles' attention is the fact that Uncle Nazi had a plan to usurp the throne from Charles' Grandfather, King George VI.  Charles would still be heir to the throne in that case (since it seems abundantly clear that Uncle Nazi and Mrs. Simpson were not going to produce an heir themselves) but I'd LIKE to think that Charles would be sufficiently loyal to his grandfather and mother to be FURIOUS that uncle Edward was plotting with his Nazi friends to depose King George.

He would be heir if the Nazis didn’t decide to send that branch of the family to a concentration camp or the UK equivalent of Ekaterinburg. I don’t feel fully confident they would have been allowed to survive. 

[Clanstarling]

On 11/19/2019 at 11:06 PM, Ravenya003 said:

Princess Anne is a hoot. "I do hope that wasn't too emotional for you all."

Also, quite a sneaky little line they slid in there with Anne commenting that there would be "three in the marriage." Hmm, who else famously uttered that phrase?

Loved it.

On 11/26/2019 at 4:35 AM, Roseanna said:

During the WW2, Britain had to give concessions to the US in order to safeguard the latter's support. After the war, it had no resources to maintain its empire neither its traditional sphere of influence as it f.ex. during the Greek Civil War when the US stepped in.

However, notice that Germany that lost the war and was totally destroyed and had millions of refugees of the East, recoved rapidly. Unlike in Britain, there was due that there was no old infrastructure but had to build a new one.

Well that, and the American Marshall Plan. I was born ten years after the war in the part of German occupied by the French - the city was still bombed out. And sure, there's quite the bell curve to suffering, from horrific to not at all, but that doesn't mean people who didn't suffer horrifically didn't suffer.

Here's the news story on the day the strike ended: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/6/newsid_4207000/4207111.stm

[peace355]

I agree with other that characters this season seem to be inconsistent but I did enjoy this episode, probably one of my favorites this season and I think the reason for that is it was much more of an ensemble episode. We got time with the Queen and PM and the coal miner strike, Prince Edwards funeral briefly, Camilla and Charles with Mountbatton and Queen Mother's scheming and of course Ann being brilliant and witty.

I've found too many episodes focused on just one character this season and honestly those "poor rich me, no one understands me" episodes get rather annoying (Phillip, Lord Mountbatton, Prince Edward and Margaret in particular, the Charles episode was okay)

I don't expect historical accuracy from this show, so I expect liberties, but I would like to see the cast interact with each other and the world more, I felt this episode had a better balance of that.