S03.E10: Cri de Coeur

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As her marriage falls apart, Princess Margaret finds solace in the arms of a much younger landscape gardener. The Queen and the nation celebrate Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee.

 

Dropping on Netflix on Sunday, November 17, 2019.

[humbleopinion]

I am stuffed from the binge.

I can’t believe I ate the whole thing....

The 3rd season has terrific looking vintage cars, military uniforms, royal robes and tiaras, castles and palaces but the everyday clothes of the Queen and royal family in the 60's and 70's...ugh.

The beige hat that looked like a carved cantaloupe that covered her ears she wore at the investiture of Charles in Wales was the worst....

The supporting cast is chock full of awesome actors you will recognize from their work in other Brit series, the main cast is working hard for us to buy in their portrayals of the royals so I will play along.

A couple episodes dragged but still an enjoyable season.

BTW, Olivia Colman needs more script...her Queen is just reacting to Prince Phillip(convincing lip locks that the Queen and Duke like each other), Margaret, Charles and the various PMs.

The horse trip to France and Kentucky let OC shine.

Edited November 19, 2019 by humbleopinion

[phoenics]

I just finished.

I feel like this season was more of a placeholder?  I dunno - it kinda felt a bit fragmented and lacked the cohesion of previous seasons.  Maybe that's because there are so many new characters to focus on.

This final scene where Margaret talks about how they paper over the cracks - I feel like basically the country and the BRF fell apart this season - or showed us all just what a hot mess they all are.  I'm still reeling that even after Princess Margaret told her family how her husband was openly and publicly cheating on her - they just started praising her husband.  WTF?  But when Margaret gets caught cheating after the fact, they all pile on her.  No wonder she tried to take her life.  Then there is the whole Prince Charles thing.  There is definitely nuance here because Camilla was messy in that she really didn't know what she wanted (Charles or Andrew) - or maybe she did... so I guess the line that if the family hadn't intervened, she and Charles would've lived happily ever after isn't quite right either.  There really would've been 3 of them in that marriage.  Also - the fact that PC and PA and CPB and APB were all involved in a love quad - WTF I had no idea.

Point is - BRF is a mess.  And Britain is a mess.

Until the Queen was talking to Margaret at the end about accomplishing nothing and feeling like everything had fallen apart - and that she felt like a fraud for having the Jubilee - until Margaret mentioned that they exist in all their pomp and stance (or HMQ does) and stability and calmness so that the cracks are papered over - the whole season felt off to me - but maybe that's the point.  Maybe it was supposed to feel off and weird - like a mess - because that's the state the country and the BRF is in at this point.  And in the end, HMQ's role - The Crown's Role - is to paper over the whole thing so no one will panic.

But still I hope S4 has more cohesion and a stronger narrative.  This season's narrative still felt all over the place to me.

Edited November 18, 2019 by phoenics

[swanpride]

The worst was the wallpaper in the home of the welsh professor.

I think the balance between personal drama and political events was off. It's hard to explain, but the season kind of felt like it happened in a bubble. I mean, yeah, the royal family is kind of living in one, but knowing how much the population was still suffering during those years, it was kind of difficult to care too much about various characters whining about their "duties".

[andromeda331]

I completely sided with Margaret at her birthday dinner. She tells her family that her husband cheated on her. And they react by talking about his good qualities? Really? What the hell was that? I don't like Margaret either but that was terrible.  They couldn't give her any sympathy? Any kind words or something? But when she's the one who cheated suddenly there's outrage?

I liked the husband pointed out that Roddy was a younger Tony. Her vacation or island was fun. 

I don't know about the scene between Elizabeth and Margaret, Elizabeth telling her she's always been a good sister. When? All she ever does is complain about her sister. I'm not so sure about Margaret saying all about filling the cracks and stuff. Its nice. But I'm not so sure it worked. But maybe that was the point. 

[lorbeer]

34 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I completely sided with Margaret at her birthday dinner. She tells her family that her husband cheated on her. And they react by talking about his good qualities? Really? What the hell was that? I don't like Margaret either but that was terrible.  They couldn't give her any sympathy? Any kind words or something? But when she's the one who cheated suddenly there's outrage?

I think it was because Maragret's affair was in the newspapers and Tony's not. They didn't seem to be troubled because she did it but because everybody found out (in the newspapers). Queen told something like "she took him on some faraway islands to hid it" when she tried to defend her to the Queen Mother.

[humbleopinion]

Tony knows which side his bread is buttered...

If he forfeits through divorce his career as the Royal Photographer then he won't get the "royalities" (pun intended) to license his photos to grace things like teapot and tea towels with his sister in law's face and the newspapers and magazines.

Anyone else think OliviaC's Queen looked like a boxer who has to unflinchingly absorb blows to the face without a whimper....

OC has to walk the fine line to show a reaction with wider eyes and an emphatic blink..her flat affect, thousand yard dead eye stare and halting phrasing while conversing indicated great displeasure....

I kept saying.....Wait for it.....

[formerlyfreedom]

As posted in the forum, episode topics are to discuss what happened in the episode. Future history or events that may be covered in future seasons should be discussed in the History Talk topic. Posts have been and will be removed, and repeated transgressions may result in additional sanctions. Thank you.

[Lazlo]

Is Lady Anne Glenconner the first significant character on the show who has commented on it in real life? I know the real Anne gave HBC tips on portraying Margaret.

[swanpride]

Well I at least know that the UK was in such bad shape...only changed when the joined the EC. Which is one of the reasons why I expected this being a bigger deal in the show.

[Straycat80]

2 hours ago, Lazlo said:

Is Lady Anne Glenconner the first significant character on the show who has commented on it in real life? I know the real Anne gave HBC tips on portraying Margaret.

HBC was on The View yesterday. She said she talked to people who knew Margaret. She said Margaret never wanted to be queen or be more useful. She was more bothered about how short she was. And that she loved to sing. 

[swanpride]

Honestly, this sounds more true than the picture the show tries to paint. Every, single season. I kind of don't get why we are still focussing on Margareth and Phillips feeling, when there is so much really interesting stuff happening which isn't even addressed or put into the background.

[Calamity Jane]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

Well I at least know that the UK was in such bad shape...only changed when the joined the EC. Which is one of the reasons why I expected this being a bigger deal in the show.

I think the North Sea oil had some to do with it, too. 

[Mindthinkr]

I think this season tried to go into more personal depth on TRF. Overall I enjoyed it. I think Aberfan was my favorite episode...so gut wrenching. 

I got such a laugh at the country house’s bathroom had newspaper scandals cover the walls a la wallpaper. Poor Margaret always being second fiddle. To the Queen, to her children and to the public. 

[Helena Dax]

I'm not sure this episode was the right choice as l season finale. I guess I expected something more focused on Elizabeth and I wasn't really interested in Margaret and Roddy. However, I loved the scene with the two sisters, and the conversation between Elizabeth and the retiring PM. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Helena Dax

[swanpride]

Sure, the North Sea Oil changed things, too. But I wouldn't underestimate how helpful the "right" ties can be. And after all, Europe is the closest neighbour. So I am on the one side happy that the show demonstrates how one-sided the "special relationship" actually is, on the other side I am kind of disappointed that European politics is pretty much completely ignored. De Gaulle's fight against the influence of the US is kind of important for the larger picture. I know that politics aren't the main focus of the show, but I enjoyed it more when politics still played a bigger role in it.

[humbleopinion]

Enjoyed the doggies and horsies cast for this season, what beautiful animals.

Completely bought that Phillip and Lillibet were hot for each other, good acting by OC and TM.

HBC plays Margaret big and bold.

Those dangling fuchsias totally saved that Jubilee outfit....love the attention to detail of the costumes.

[iMonrey]

They strongly implied, or outright said, last season that Antony was bisexual and it wasn't addressed at all this season. This was a weird episode to end the season with too.

Overall the season was a bit of a swing and a miss. What I realized more and more is that in recasting everyone you lose all the emotional connection you had to the characters in the first 2 seasons. They did have success in the casting of Charles and Anne, but no doubt they will be recast at some point too. That's going to continue being a problem with this show going forward.

Quote

I think the balance between personal drama and political events was off. 

Agreed. Aberfan was a strong episode but overall there was too much emphasis on politics, and this is supposed to be a show about the crown, not the government. 

[Roseanna]

22 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

However, I loved the scene with the two sisters 

Yes, Elizabeth showed that she can be moved, and for once Margaret supported and valued her sister's position and work.

[Roseanna]

On 11/18/2019 at 6:04 AM, phoenics said:

I'm still reeling that even after Princess Margaret told her family how her husband was openly and publicly cheating on her - they just started praising her husband.  WTF? 

I think that was perhaps because Margaret showed "bad taste" by talking about her troubles in her birthday party. It's regarded vulgar to ask for pity.

When Elizabeth earlier visited Margaret, she was sympathic - the difference was that they were alone.

[Ellaria]

Other than the extended scenes of Margaret and Roddy in Mustique, I enjoyed this episode. Loved the final scene between Elizabeth and Margaret.

Some elements fell short for me this season, specifically the Charles/Camilla and Duke/Duchess story lines. Overall, I liked S3. The new cast worked, especially Tobias Menzies. Most importantly for me, the relationship between Elizabeth and Philip was confident, mature and loving and that provided a backbone to the rest of the story.

However, as @phoenics said above, this season did feel like a bit of a placeholder for S4. We can wait and see. Also, all of the doggies were adorable.

[Ohiopirate02]

I really don't understand why the show had Elizabeth having difficulty shedding a tear in episode 3, but in this one she was tearing up about Margaret more than once in this one.  This feels like an unnecessary inconsistency. 

Overall, I appreciated the relationship between Elizabeth and Harold Wilson.  The mutual respect that was evident for most of the season was nice to see, and I hope it was based on real life.  I feel like he was the first prime minister who did not treat Elizabeth like a child.

[toolazy]

The music isn't quite right in this episode.  "Squeeze Box" was released in 1975 and those two met in 1973.  

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, toolazy said:

The music isn't quite right in this episode.  "Squeeze Box" was released in 1975 and those two met in 1973.  

The photos weren't released until 1976.  They played fast and loose with the dates/times/details of that whole thing.  https://www.history.com/news/princess-margaret-affair-roddy-llewellyn-divorce-antony-armstrong-jones-lord-snowdon

[Peace 47]

On 11/19/2019 at 2:58 PM, Helena Dax said:

I'm not sure this episode was the right choice as l season finale. 

I got pulled into binging the last few episodes of the season tonight (and am now suffering classic binger’s regret of knowing how tired I’m going to be at work tomorrow).  I didn’t pay attention that this was the finale until the little “What to watch next” notification popped up as the credits started, and I saw that it wasn’t the “next” episode of the show.  I was shocked.  Riding in the carriage to the Jubilee seemed kind of like an anticlimactic way to end the season, especially after the intimate emotion of the Elizabeth/ Margaret scene.

I thought HBC was great in the episode, though.  I found the emotional range of her performance compelling.

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I really don't understand why the show had Elizabeth having difficulty shedding a tear in episode 3, but in this one she was tearing up about Margaret more than once in this one.  This feels like an unnecessary inconsistency. 

I don't think so. Crying in public is different than crying in private.  

Well, Elizabeth told in E3 that she didn't cry when her first baby was born even when it was supposed to a new mother - but maybe it was just because of the expectations? Or beause she was sedated? In any case, people are different and not all cry of joy.

With Margaret the situation was unexpected and Elizabeth's behaviour was spontaneus. 

[tennisgurl]

This was kind of a weird season, like it was a bridge season between the old world and the more modern era, both of the British family and the UK in general, and what the show wants to do next and what it already did. It wasnt a very cohesive season the way that the last two seasons were, with a lot of good individual episodes but not a whole lot of follow through plot wise. I enjoyed the season quite a lot and I am already excited about seeing what happens next (even though I obviously know exactly what happens next), but it really lacked a cohesive theme I think. They seemed to be going for a theme of the monarchy struggling while the country was struggling as well, and the monarchy feeling the need to change to fit with the times, and if thats actually a good thing or not, but it never really landed for me. 

I admit I did feel bad for Margaret this week, especially at her birthday. She does seem to love Tony and does feel hurt seeing their marriage falling apart, and it really sucked seeing her whole family talking about how awesome Tony was as she told them how he was cheating on her and made her feel like crap. Like, just throw in some "yeah screw that guy" stuff you have to say right when your loved ones significant other does something crappy, thats just what you do in these situations! It was also nice to see a good sisterly moment between her and Elizabeth, although I would have liked to have seen more of that this season. 

I really liked the growing relationship between Elizabeth and PM Wilson and the mutual respect that grew between them, despite their differences. The last scene between them was really touching, and I thought the actors worked very well together. 

I also liked the focus on The Crown: TNG, especially Anne and Charles, and I think thats especially difficult considering people have rather more...opinions about the newer royals, so trying to really give us something new with them, as well as writing them as layered characters without too much of their later baggage affecting them to much as characters is tough, and I think they mostly did a good job. Especially because they seemed to be in a real rut with the older generation, giving them the same beats over and over again. Margaret is the party girl bitter about being second, Phillip is snarky and struggles with his manhood, and Elizabeth is stoic and proper and trying to figure out how to be herself and the queen, and thats all we have gotten, even though several years have passed now, and all of these people certainly had a lot more going for them. 

It was a mixed bag of a season is what I am trying to say, basically. I could use a speech writer!

Edited November 21, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Kfir]

Just finished the season. I don't know if it was because I was late to the show and so binge watched Season 1 & 2 back to back but having to wait over a year rather eagerly to get this season seemed like a bit of an anti climax once it arrived. 

There were some good episodes but as another poster mentioned it felt fragmented. For me it was like the episodes for the most part stood alone where you could have almost watched the eps in any order without it effecting continuity much. 

I found the Royals in particular Philip expecting a pay rise and bemoaning things that may of us would be happy to take without question to be a far too much. In my opinion these people are just high class welfare recipients who double up on the jobs of politicians. When they actually do something that is. Seeing him fanboy the astronauts and have yet another crisis of masculinity because he isn't King was also tiresome. Makes you wonder how us ordinary folk cope with anything when these uber wealthy privileged people go to pieces over anything. 

The Prime Ministers are always interesting and how they interact with the Queen. Some see her as a nuisance and others as neutral support. 

If Charles is that miserable he should just leave there is nothing they can do about it but of course, like Margaret he doesn't want to give up the life of privilege. I am amazed he still wants Camilla after seeing what she is really like. Anne is kind of sexy, maybe because she is so aware and cold. 

I was rather surprised at the conversation about Anne and Parker Bowles, how she just told her mother and grandmother she slept with him. I thought they would be more puritanical than that and as virginity seems so important in partners to the royals it doesn't seem important to themselves, even the females. 

I read somewhere that we should have seen Diana Spencer in this season but unless I missed it we didn't. I would say she would make an appearance next season. 

Overall an ordinary season which didn't engage me as much as the first two. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Kfir said:

Just finished the season. I don't know if it was because I was late to the show and so binge watched Season 1 & 2 back to back but having to wait over a year rather eagerly to get this season seemed like a bit of an anti climax once it arrived. 

There were some good episodes but as another poster mentioned it felt fragmented. For me it was like the episodes for the most part stood alone where you could have almost watched the eps in any order without it effecting continuity much. 

I found the Royals in particular Philip expecting a pay rise and bemoaning things that may of us would be happy to take without question to be a far too much. In my opinion these people are just high class welfare recipients who double up on the jobs of politicians. When they actually do something that is. Seeing him fanboy the astronauts and have yet another crisis of masculinity because he isn't King was also tiresome. Makes you wonder how us ordinary folk cope with anything when these uber wealthy privileged people go to pieces over anything. 

The Prime Ministers are always interesting and how they interact with the Queen. Some see her as a nuisance and others as neutral support. 

If Charles is that miserable he should just leave there is nothing they can do about it but of course, like Margaret he doesn't want to give up the life of privilege. I am amazed he still wants Camilla after seeing what she is really like. Anne is kind of sexy, maybe because she is so aware and cold. 

I was rather surprised at the conversation about Anne and Parker Bowles, how she just told her mother and grandmother she slept with him. I thought they would be more puritanical than that and as virginity seems so important in partners to the royals it doesn't seem important to themselves, even the females. 

I read somewhere that we should have seen Diana Spencer in this season but unless I missed it we didn't. I would say she would make an appearance next season. 

Overall an ordinary season which didn't engage me as much as the first two. 

Since Anne was never going to be the monarch nor the mother of a monarch, her virginity was really not that important.   Camilla couldn't be Charles's wife in the 70s because of the fear that she could try to pass of Andrew's child as the next in line from the throne.  With Anne, the family could find someone from the right family who did not mind what she did before the marriage.   We saw the same with Margaret this season.  Elizabeth was fine with her having a discreet affair with Roddy.  The Queen Mum was a different story being from another generation.   Margaret also had a lot more leeway than Elizabeth as a single woman.  

[Kfir]

12 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Since Anne was never going to be the monarch nor the mother of a monarch, her virginity was really not that important.   Camilla couldn't be Charles's wife in the 70s because of the fear that she could try to pass of Andrew's child as the next in line from the throne.  With Anne, the family could find someone from the right family who did not mind what she did before the marriage.   We saw the same with Margaret this season.  Elizabeth was fine with her having a discreet affair with Roddy.  The Queen Mum was a different story being from another generation.   Margaret also had a lot more leeway than Elizabeth as a single woman.  

Very calculated as per usual I see! Makes sense, the rules depend on how important you are to the overall family! 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Kfir said:

Very calculated as per usual I see! Makes sense, the rules depend on how important you are to the overall family! 

To the Monarchy actually.

I don't think the original Elizabeth was really a virgin queen either, aside from the rumors of sexual abuse/rape as a child, I think she probably fooled around a bit as Queen, possibly not to penetration though, at least until after menopause.

But, yeah, I think it's was mostly about two things, "appointed by God" so not breaking the Church rules (although many obviously did anyway) and "the legitimacy of the succession line."

[BooBear]

I enjoyed the season but I didn't enjoy this episode. I suspect they focus so much on Phillip and Margaret because of the actors who play them not wanting small roles... but I am sick to death of Margaret. I can cut Phillip more slack because of the hard life he had as a child but Margaret has really had a lot. I also don't like HBC in the role. IMHo she just plays herself all the time and doesn't really capture an essence. I think Vanessa Kirby did. 

I did enjoy the scenes with Harold Wilson. Elizabeth was right he did have a much better personality.

[BitterApple]

Interesting how the family seemed to prefer Tony to Margaret. I wonder if that was dramatic license or true in real life? Nobody could even muster a sympathetic gesture when Margaret announced Tony was cheating. 

I had no idea Britain was such a disaster in the 60s and 70s. I'm surprised the Monarchy survived. 

I also didn't realize Camilla was dating APB at the same time as Charles. I thought she met and married him after the Palace put the kibosh on her and Charles' relationship. Huh. 

[Umbelina]

36 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Interesting how the family seemed to prefer Tony to Margaret. I wonder if that was dramatic license or true in real life? Nobody could even muster a sympathetic gesture when Margaret announced Tony was cheating. 

I had no idea Britain was such a disaster in the 60s and 70s. I'm surprised the Monarchy survived. 

I also didn't realize Camilla was dating APB at the same time as Charles. I thought she met and married him after the Palace put the kibosh on her and Charles' relationship. Huh. 

As the show pointed out, she was "dating" APB for 7 years, and what they show may have failed to say, but Anne certainly hinted at, she was pretty madly in love with him, in spite of his sleeping around.  

I also don't think that the palace stopped her relationship with Charles back then, it's more likely she was with Charles because, and only because APB liked variety in bed, and that was her way of "evening things up."  I also doubt Charles was in any mood to marry, he was finally extremely eligible and finally popular and desirable as the future King and could get nearly any woman he wanted, he was not ready to settle down, let alone decided to do that with Camilla.

[Empress Josephine]

I did enjoy this season overall but I do not think it compares to Season one or two at all in terms of quality. It did seem to drag at times and it was jarring to see the actress who played Lady Churchill now back as the Duchess of Gloucester. 

My favourite episodes were the ones centred on the coal disaster and Princess Alice (poor lady had such a hard life but was so good). I also liked that young Philip from 2x09 showed up for a bit in episode four and loved seeing the cute photos of Matt Smith and Claire Foy in this last episode. It was a nice surprise.

The big standout this season in terms of performance was the girl portraying Princess Anne. She has so much spunk and she looks a lot like a young Anne too. Can't wait to hear her say those famous words, "Not bloody likely!' It will be a laugh.

Helena did good in her portrayal of Princess Margaret (I prefer Vanessa Kirby though) as well. In fact, the last scene Margaret and Elizabeth had this episode was rather touching. I got a little teary eyed.  I also I loved seeing Lord Tywin as Mountbatten. The scene he had with Princess Alice was a favourite of mine. I also cried a bit during it haha. I guess I am just a blurry mess when it comes to sibling bonding. 

But overall this season really made me realize how much I miss Claire Foy and Matt Smith. I do like Olivia Colman and Tobias Menzies as actors but something about their portrayals in this (especially Menzies) fell flat for me. The moon dust episode was rather painful for me because I kept thinking about the performance Matt could have given with the same script.

Maybe in season 4 they will find their footing or perhaps more accurately, I will get used to them as the new Elizabeth and Philip. But it was hard to adjust. I missed Alex Jennings as the Duke of Windsor as well. 

I am hoping Matt Smith and Claire Foy (if they have the time) can come back for flashbacks in the later seasons. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Empress Josephine

[AZChristian]

8 hours ago, Empress Josephine said:

... it was jarring to see the actress who played Lady Churchill now back as the Duchess of Gloucester. 

Penny Downie played the Duchess of Gloucester.

Harriet Walter played Clementine Churchill.

ETA:  If they WERE going to have an actor play two different roles in the series, I'd campaign for Charles Dance to play Philip in the last two seasons!!!!

Edited November 22, 2019 by AZChristian
Added thought.

[Empress Josephine]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Penny Downie played the Duchess of Gloucester.

Harriet Walter played Clementine Churchill.

ETA:  If they WERE going to have an actor play two different roles in the series, I'd campaign for Charles Dance to play Philip in the last two seasons!!!!

Thank you for clearing that up. They looked like twins on the show. I did a double take haha.

[Paloma]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:24 PM, BooBear said:

I enjoyed the season but I didn't enjoy this episode. I suspect they focus so much on Phillip and Margaret because of the actors who play them not wanting small roles... but I am sick to death of Margaret. I can cut Phillip more slack because of the hard life he had as a child but Margaret has really had a lot.

As soon as I saw the first couple of scenes with Margaret, I thought "Oh no, not another episode devoted to Her Whininess" and had to almost force myself to watch the rest of the episode. I do have sympathy for her being cheated on and having her family praise the cheating husband, but her behavior for years, even before her affair with Roddy, was so self-centered and immature that it's understandable why any husband would not want to be with her. (This is not to justify cheating on his part, but in a non-royal marriage this probably would have ended in separation or divorce much sooner.) There wasn't even any indication that she cared about her children, though I don't know what their relationship was IRL.

Overall this season had some good parts, but it lacked cohesiveness and was not often compelling. I hope they do better with season 4, but it is going to be difficult to walk the line between real events and fictionalized private events when it is much closer to present day and the stories we all know.

[Capricasix]

21 hours ago, Empress Josephine said:

But overall this season really made me realize how much I miss Claire Foy and Matt Smith. I do like Olivia Colman and Tobias Menzies as actors but something about their portrayals in this (especially Menzies) fell flat for me. The moon dust episode was rather painful for me because I kept thinking about the performance Matt could have given with the same script.

I have to agree with you. I love Olivia Colman, but I found her Queen to be almost too emotionless. Maybe that’s how the directors intended her to play the character; however, I felt that Claire Foy infused a bit more emotion into her performance. The scene that I found most touching was the one of Margaret and the Queen at the end of this episode, when she did actually show some emotion.

I don’t know; maybe this season will grow on me a little when I watch it again. I honestly found myself dozing off a few times while watching.

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:00 AM, AZChristian said:

If they WERE going to have an actor play two different roles in the series, I'd campaign for Charles Dance to play Philip in the last two seasons!!!!

The whole series, I kept thinking Charles Dance would be so much better as an older version of Phillip than as Mountbatten! Oh, well.

My other candidate for an older Philip: Bill Nighy.

 

20 hours ago, Paloma said:

Overall this season had some good parts, but it lacked cohesiveness and was not often compelling. I hope they do better with season 4, but it is going to be difficult to walk the line between real events and fictionalized private events when it is much closer to present day and the stories we all know.

This is true - it's going to be much more challenging to dramatize events, because so many more of us will have them in our memories. There were a number of little stories in prior seasons that I knew nothing about, and part of the fun of this show is disappearing down Google rabbit holes to learn about the history behind each episode.

[Ellaria]

4 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

This is true - it's going to be much more challenging to dramatize events, because so many more of us will have them in our memories. There were a number of little stories in prior seasons that I knew nothing about, and part of the fun of this show is disappearing down Google rabbit holes to learn about the history behind each episode.

Bingo! This will be their challenge. It is much easier to portray a dramatized version of real-life events when most of your audience doesn't recall the real thing or the real people (Churchill, the abdication, etc). It is a different experience when the audience watched coverage of these future events on TV and/or read about them in the tabloids as they were happening. And it makes even more daunting because many will have seen other dramatizations of these same events. 

I love this show and I hope that it remains one of the better dramas on TV. 

[Roseanna]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:50 AM, Kfir said:

I found the Royals in particular Philip expecting a pay rise and bemoaning things that may of us would be happy to take without question to be a far too much. In my opinion these people are just high class welfare recipients who double up on the jobs of politicians. When they actually do something that is. Seeing him fanboy the astronauts and have yet another crisis of masculinity because he isn't King was also tiresome. Makes you wonder how us ordinary folk cope with anything when these uber wealthy privileged people go to pieces over anything. 

Your question is interesting although it applies more to Margaret whom we often have seen sleep late and drink too much. I think ordinary people at that time had much time to think about as they have to work. F.ex. when women lost their husbands during the war, they couldn't wallow in their sorrow for ever but had to take care of their children. If they were lucky, they had friends to whom they could talk and get comfort, but eventually they were adviced: "move on".

Actually it was shown that Philip did work: he visited two factories and delived a speech. From these we were supposed to make a conclusion that he had many such occassions which may have seem a great honor to the owners (maybe workers too) but to him they were endless repetition. 

[Paloma]

On 11/21/2019 at 5:50 PM, Kfir said:

I found the Royals in particular Philip expecting a pay rise and bemoaning things that may of us would be happy to take without question to be a far too much. In my opinion these people are just high class welfare recipients who double up on the jobs of politicians. When they actually do something that is. Seeing him fanboy the astronauts and have yet another crisis of masculinity because he isn't King was also tiresome. Makes you wonder how us ordinary folk cope with anything when these uber wealthy privileged people go to pieces over anything. 

The Prime Ministers are always interesting and how they interact with the Queen. Some see her as a nuisance and others as neutral support. 

Although I can understand why people born into wealth and privilege often feel entitled, I am not interested in watching repeated scenes of their whining and tantrums. Just because you are rich doesn't mean you can't be aware of the problems of other people and care about making their lives better. Some of the scenes that were most interesting to me in this series were those showing the Queen and Charles recognizing what ordinary folk go through and showing some compassion or solidarity with them. Of course, it doesn't change that the royal lifestyle is costing their subjects a ton of money, but I guess the people could vote to stop funding the monarchy if they really wanted to. 

I was also interested in the interactions with the Prime Ministers and was surprised to see that she ultimately seemed to have the best relationship with Wilson (aside perhaps from Churchill). Although he was Labor and most of his colleagues seemed very anti-Royal, he clearly had respect for the Queen's position and as a person, so it was good to see her return that respect and to ask for a dinner invitation at the end, which was apparently an unusual honor for a PM. 

[humbleopinion]

Geraldine Chaplin was a bit too wrinkly as Wallis Simpson....but what can you do?

Charles Dance is fortunate to have maintained his strong, steady, clear voice..from GOT to The Crown.

[Kfir]

6 hours ago, Paloma said:

Although I can understand why people born into wealth and privilege often feel entitled, I am not interested in watching repeated scenes of their whining and tantrums. Just because you are rich doesn't mean you can't be aware of the problems of other people and care about making their lives better. Some of the scenes that were most interesting to me in this series were those showing the Queen and Charles recognizing what ordinary folk go through and showing some compassion or solidarity with them. Of course, it doesn't change that the royal lifestyle is costing their subjects a ton of money, but I guess the people could vote to stop funding the monarchy if they really wanted to. 

I was also interested in the interactions with the Prime Ministers and was surprised to see that she ultimately seemed to have the best relationship with Wilson (aside perhaps from Churchill). Although he was Labor and most of his colleagues seemed very anti-Royal, he clearly had respect for the Queen's position and as a person, so it was good to see her return that respect and to ask for a dinner invitation at the end, which was apparently an unusual honor for a PM. 

The scenes where the servants are holding the basin's for them while they brush their teeth and even spit! The scene where Phil has the servant change the channel! How grossly obscene is that, sure it gives this poor slob a job but it is so denigrating. 

I agree, some of them seem so out of touch. Margaret for example who thinks she would be a better Queen seems to be one of the worst. 

I think the PM's come down to personality. Wilson seemed like a gentle kind of man whereas Heath from the outset was rougher. Their upbringings say it all. Wilson came from a political family so would have been well educated in how to deal with people. Heath was lower working class so had a more straight forward nature about him. 

[Kfir]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Your question is interesting although it applies more to Margaret whom we often have seen sleep late and drink too much. I think ordinary people at that time had much time to think about as they have to work. F.ex. when women lost their husbands during the war, they couldn't wallow in their sorrow for ever but had to take care of their children. If they were lucky, they had friends to whom they could talk and get comfort, but eventually they were adviced: "move on".

Actually it was shown that Philip did work: he visited two factories and delived a speech. From these we were supposed to make a conclusion that he had many such occassions which may have seem a great honor to the owners (maybe workers too) but to him they were endless repetition. 

Yes, that was my point really. Working class people can't afford much navel gazing. We have to get on with it or risk losing what little we may have. 

I suppose that is my problem. I don't see a great deal of value in their work. He visits a factory makes a speech. I see the same kind of crap at my work where the bosses make speeches that are empty, shake hands etc They don't realize they are being counter productive a lot of the time because we don't believe them and they do the opposite of what they say in the end! 

I think Phil wants more but I don't know if he was King or had never married the Queen if he would have achieved what he wanted anyway. I think he likes to blame that but it's just an excuse/easy thing to blame.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Kfir

[Umbelina]

21 minutes ago, Kfir said:

I think Phil wants more but I don't know if he was King or had never married the Queen if he would have achieved what he wanted anyway. I think he likes to blame that but it's just an excuse/easy thing to blame.

He was an adventurer, but exactly.  He would have never been the first on the moon, Britain had no space program, but he would have probably risen in rank in the Navy.

Still, think of Elizabeth's "secret dream."  It's honestly just as ridiculous.  She'd like to raise top of the line race horses like the Aga Khan!  Yeah, no money involved in that one...ahem.  She only HAS what horses she has (and all the servants involved in caring for, and training them) because of the Crown's fabulous wealth!

She talked last season about being ordinary, living in the country with horses and dogs.  The truth is, if she was "ordinary" she would be lucky to afford ONE horse, and keep it fed and healthy, and it most certainly would not be a top race horse, and there is no way she could afford the prime trainers or facilities.  

They seem to have no concept of life without the obscene wealth and perks of royalty.

[Kfir]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

He was an adventurer, but exactly.  He would have never been the first on the moon, Britain had no space program, but he would have probably risen in rank in the Navy.

Still, think of Elizabeth's "secret dream."  It's honestly just as ridiculous.  She'd like to raise top of the line race horses like the Aga Khan!  Yeah, no money involved in that one...ahem.  She only HAS what horses she has (and all the servants involved in caring for, and training them) because of the Crown's fabulous wealth!

She talked last season about being ordinary, living in the country with horses and dogs.  The truth is, if she was "ordinary" she would be lucky to afford ONE horse, and keep it fed and healthy, and it most certainly would not be a top race horse, and there is no way she could afford the prime trainers or facilities.  

They seem to have no concept of life without the obscene wealth and perks of royalty.

He would have ended up a lot like Lord Mountbatten cast aside in the end when he refused to go along with Govt orders. He was too old to serve in any war and may not have been a good leader in that respect anyway. I can't help but wonder why he didn't fly to the US to see the spaceship take off with his own eyes. He certainly had the power to do so.

Right about the Queen, I think her dream was still with the proviso she was wealthy! I also wonder how much she really knew about horses, funny because unless I missed something up until now you haven't seen her show much interest in horses and now it's the passion of her life?

No they don't have any concept and that is what makes it hard to watch at times because really there is no one to root for. Anne is probably the closest and I feel some sympathy for Charles but that is it. 

[Roseanna]

7 minutes ago, Kfir said:

Right about the Queen, I think her dream was still with the proviso she was wealthy! I also wonder how much she really knew about horses, funny because unless I missed something up until now you haven't seen her show much interest in horses and now it's the passion of her life?

Actually we have seen it in S1 ep 9 where she chose of the three horses the one that would sire her star horse and her friendsip with Porchey made Philip jealous.

Porchey is one of those aristocratic men who Elizabeth's parents and the Court would have like to wed and he was also in love with her.  

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Roseanna said:

Actually we have seen it in S1 ep 9 where she chose of the three horses the one that would sire her star horse and her friendsip with Porchey made Philip jealous.

Porchey is one of those aristocratic men who Elizabeth's parents and the Court would have like to wed and he was also in love with her.  

Yes, but she only met him because she WAS a royal, she was never "ordinary" and probably would have detested it.  Washing dishes, working in a shop, trying to afford to buy a horse or a pedigreed dog, worrying over bills, doing laundry and her own cleaning, *gasp* she would even have to dress herself!  Also, no one to hand the children off to for most of her life, wiping noses and cleaning up vomit, changing diapers...you know, a "normal life."