S28:E06: Top 9

[spanana]

10 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Kate was a dance major or dance minor in college.  That usually means that you danced as a kid too.  Many years of experience.  Don't be fooled by false narratives,

There is no false narrative when she has openly said things on the show.  She was not a dance major.  She said she minored in dance for a few years over 30 years ago.  She also said she hadn't danced at all since college.  Both of those things were said on the show by her so if people watch the packages she hasn't covered anything up.

I'd also like to add that if true, she last danced over 30 plus years ago and I highly doubt she was a serious dance minor in that she was an amazing accomplished dancer with loads of training.  It's not uncommon for aspiring actors to take dance classes and I think it's clear she has some movement experience in the way she knows how to use her body but I doubt she has years of ballet training or anything like that. 

Has she danced before? Yes. Do I think she's a ringer? Not even close unless we are counting anyone who has ever taken a dance class in their life.  Plus again I just have to stress that any experience she has is longer ago than most of the people on the show have been alive.

On a separate note, the pro number for tour.  The second it started and saw the dancing and that of course Jenna was front and center I knew it had to be a Mandy routine and I was right.  It wasn't just Jenna, it was the whole boring style of it.  I wish they would venture out in their tour choreographers.  I've seen more interesting work from the guest choreographers this season than I've seen from Mandy in years.  It also looked sloppy.

Edited October 22, 2019 by spanana

[Lovecat]

12 hours ago, OnTime said:

Would we really see Sean Spicer dancing contemporary?

I had the same thought, gave a full-body shudder, and went back to my coping mechanism, which is pretending that Spicer dancing is really Melissa McCarthy *as* Spicer dancing.  Trust me, it helps.

The ending of this week's show was absolute horseshit, but October 21, 2019 will go down in history as the day Len exclaimed, "Tutti fruity, what a booty!" in re: the Beek's butt, so there's something to hang on to.  (Not that he's wrong.  ::cough::  I mean...whew!  ::fans self::)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, suebee12 said:

I think you meant Kel not Karamo didn't you?

Ha, yes! Whenever there are reality show contestants who have names that start with the same letter, I have to make an effort not to type the wrong name. Right now the Great Australian Bake Off is killing me because this season has Dan, David, Dennis, and Don!

6 hours ago, spanana said:

She wasn't a dance major.  Also to the original poster, there is no false narrative.  Week one she said she hadn't danced since college.  She's 55, so that would imply she hasn't danced since she was in her early 20's which would be over 30 years ago for her.

Then last week in her package she said she was a dance minor in college for a few years but implied that she wasn't that good.  But she never said she had never danced in her life.  What she said is she danced some in college and hasn't since.

Again, I'll repeat since she is 55 we are talking she last danced over 30 years ago.  She clearly has some movement experience since she's a good mover, but a ringer IMO she is not.

Yes to all of this. I’d also like to add that at many schools, there aren’t stringent requirements to minor in something. At my undergrad university, you just had to complete seven upper division classes in most departments (we were on quarters so that translates to five classes on a semester schedule). A dance minor required no audition at my school. You just had to take seven dance classes (they did not have to be advanced/upper division) and fill put the paperwork to declare a minor. You could theoretically take beginning ballet seven times and have dance listed as your minor. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a good dancer. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Toonces464]

20 minutes ago, OnTime said:

I kept wondering what Sailor would have been if she had "found her own" instead of being forced in to modeling because of her mother.  What would Sailor Cook have become?

I recently read an interview with her where she said she wanted to be a photographer.

ITA that her life has been forced by her mother. She got the Christie looks in the family. Alexa is the spitting image of Billy Joel. I used to feel bad for Alexa but I think now she's the one who lucked out not having to live in her mother's shadow. 

14 minutes ago, spanana said:

On a separate note, the pro number for tour.  The second it started and saw the dancing and that of course Jenna was front and center I knew it had to be a Mandy routine and I was right.  It wasn't just Jenna, it was the whole boring style of it.  I wish they would venture out in their tour choreographers.  I've seen more interesting work from the guest choreographers this season than I've seen from Mandy in years.  It also looked sloppy.

I was thinking about going to the tour this time (haven't been since 2009) but that number turned me off. Not only did I not care for it, but there was Jenna front and center again. And the Val/Jenna and Sasha/Emma pairings. I know these people are married but I don't want to see them dance together all the time. I actually like Val dancing with Lindsay, Emma and even Witney better than with Jenna. Much like his brother and his wife, I don't think Val has an ounce of chemistry with Jenna.

[boyznkatz]

Sailor is a young girl, so I can give her a break for crying. Plus, she got eliminated by a turd, so I don't blame her. And why were the judges so shocked? They caused this by inflating Spicer's scores. They had no qualms about giving Lamar 4s to get rid of him, so they could have given Spicer the 5s and 6s he deserved. This new system is a joke. The worst dance won't get on the bottom two unless they actually judge the dancing!

[spanana]

31 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes to all of this. I’d also like to add that at many schools, there aren’t stringent requirements to minor in something. At my undergrad university, you just had to complete seven upper division classes in most departments (we were in quarters so that translates to five classes on a semester schedule). A dance minor required no audition at my school. You just had to take seven dance classes (they did not have to be advanced/upper division)and fill put the paperwork to declare a minor. You could theoretically take beginning ballet seven times and have dance listed as your minor. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a good dancer. 

I'd also add that it's probably not uncommon for a theatre/drama major (which I'm assuming Kate was but maybe she wasn't) to do a minor in dance or something like that since that is part of the whole package and you have to be able to move your body.  Plus you can also stick dance experience on your resume even if exaggerated.  Also she would have been in college in the late 80's I think, so who knows what the requirements were then.

[BeeBop88]

I felt sorry for Sailor. Did not think she should win, but at least last another 2 weeks. And her fan base is not big.

Edited October 22, 2019 by BeeBop88

[spanana]

30 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I was thinking about going to the tour this time (haven't been since 2009) but that number turned me off. Not only did I not care for it, but there was Jenna front and center again. And the Val/Jenna and Sasha/Emma pairings. I know these people are married but I don't want to see them dance together all the time. I actually like Val dancing with Lindsay, Emma and even Witney better than with Jenna. Much like his brother and his wife, I don't think Val has an ounce of chemistry with Jenna.

I'd also be more inclined to go to the tour if Pasha were going.  Daniela is going but not Pasha. I'm going to assume TPTB needed another woman but not another guy?  I'd pay to watch them dance.  The others a lot less so.  They are also better technicians, at least currently since they are fresher off the competition floor, than all of our pros.  In that sense I'm interested to see how Jenna reacts to Daniela suddenly being around because I think Jenna is so used to being the best technically and all that (of the DWTSers not in general life) and I'm pretty sure Daniela can wipe the floor with her in ballroom anyway.

1 minute ago, BeeBop88 said:

I felt sorry for Sailor. Did not think she should win, but at least last another 2 weeks. I think there is an anti rich privilige feeling in this country which probably worked against her. Plus her fan base is not big.

Anti rich privilege is not a thing that exists.  That is like saying reverse racism exists.

[boyznkatz]

What do the judges have against Hannah? They gave her the second lowest scores. She gets a 24 and Spicer gets a 21? What a joke. He should have gotten a 17 or 18 at best.

Is everyone else doing so poorly in votes that they have to pad their scores?

[Ladyrain]

I'd have liked to see Sailor last a few weeks more just because she's not a bad dancer.   What I won't miss is seeing her mother posing and 'emoting' and fake crying and trying desperately to be relevant.   For some reason she is bugging the bejeezus out of me; she's probably more broken up than her daughter about this, as CB will no longer be the focus of attention in the audience.  She strikes me a complete airhead.  YMMV

[Ladyrain]

In the first few weeks this season, the judges actually gave low scores where they were deserved.   Great!, thought I.   But while most dancers are gradually improving, not all of them are.   Where are the low scores now?  I truly don't get his.   Just because it's midway through the season, scores should not automatically get higher.  Spicer should no way have gotten  ? 7's ? last night.   He has gotten a teeny tiny smidge better, but that performance last night should have been a 5, given what the other dancers put out there.   His 7's were in no way only one notch below the others' 8's.  

[MsJamieDornan]

53 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

I recently read an interview with her where she said she wanted to be a photographer.

ITA that her life has been forced by her mother. She got the Christie looks in the family. Alexa is the spitting image of Billy Joel. I used to feel bad for Alexa but I think now she's the one who lucked out not having to live in her mother's shadow. 

Her mother tried photography also. 

[carrin817]

1 hour ago, Toonces464 said:

I think this season has been her best as far as wardrobe but I did not like the pants. Maybe I would have liked them better if they were a different color but I hated that puke green. Also, while she's a beautiful woman, she's too bow-legged to pull off that kind of outfit.

I agree, I could believe how many times I caught her squatting down to talk to the dancers & it didn't look good.

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

My own side note: I hate it when the music doesn't seem to match the style of dance. Like a country Samba, for instance. There was another one I felt was off but I can't remember what it was, now.

I thought Spicer's waltz to Queen wasn't the right choice either.  and I think the quality of the singers is down this year (not that I have any room to talk) but some of the performances have been really bad renditions.

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, carrin817 said:

I thought Spicer's waltz to Queen wasn't the right choice either.

That's the one!

[lavenderblue]

I wasn't shocked that Sailor was the most vulnerable of the contestants, given her limited fanbase, but I also don't fault her for breaking down. Doesn't mean she expected to go far; if she's exhausted and disappointed or embarrassed, sometimes it just hits you and there's not much you can do about it.

Happy to see James and Kate both back in form and Kel continue his upward trajectory! Would love to see all three in the finals.

I have also seen comments on Twitter, both sincere and trolling, about mass-voting for Sean to "trigger the libs," and I would assume now that Bobby had fans voting to trigger the ~Hollywood snobs~ given how he's talking about this season. In both cases, it's not only an immature attitude but also one that's incapable of grasping that it's not the "libs" and "elite" out to get you; most people who watch this show and care enough to vote enjoy dance and want to see good dancers succeed. This culture war mentality just exposes how out of touch these same voters are with what normal viewers prioritize and, well, with the concept that dance ability is actually a real thing.

Edited October 22, 2019 by lavenderblue

[JeezumCrow]

2 hours ago, Ladyrain said:

That being said, has Sailor led such a pampered life that she's never experienced a thumbs-down moment?   She was crushed to be leaving (understandable) but she didn't seem to be able to deal with the shock and awe of it.   Life has ups AND downs, and I don't know if she's suffered many or any downs.   I could be wrong about that; just my take on it.

I got the feeling that once she started crying, she couldn’t stop, possibly because the magnitude of feeling embarrassed in front of millions of people - like, “Oh, this is so embarrassing that I’m upset, but the more I think about how embarrassed/upset I am, the more it makes me cry, and then I get more embarrassed.” I thought it was super evident that she’s not used to being vulnerable in front of a crowd.

[BeeBop88]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

I'd also be more inclined to go to the tour if Pasha were going.  Daniela is going but not Pasha. I'm going to assume TPTB needed another woman but not another guy?  I'd pay to watch them dance.  The others a lot less so.  They are also better technicians, at least currently since they are fresher off the competition floor, than all of our pros.  In that sense I'm interested to see how Jenna reacts to Daniela suddenly being around because I think Jenna is so used to being the best technically and all that (of the DWTSers not in general life) and I'm pretty sure Daniela can wipe the floor with her in ballroom anyway.

Anti rich privilege is not a thing that exists.  That is like saying reverse racism exists.

Well, I think it does. There is always talk about it by certain pols whose names I won't mention plus on social media. So to each their own opinion, we both agrée to disagree. Frankly I would rather talk about DWTS than any political stuff.

[fpbl83]

Sailor sobbing kind of indicated to me that Christie really had to convince her to do this once Christie got injured. Sailor was totally out of her comfort zone being on live TV every week.    

[mjstrick]

I guess I'm in the minority, but Ally bugs the ever living CRAP out of me.  She just seems so desperate and thirsty.  Like she won't stop talking when the judges are trying to critique her.  I would've been totally happy to see her go instead.

Edited October 22, 2019 by mjstrick

[TiredMe]

5 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

Hannah got on my nerves with her whole L.A. Is not home. Nobody forced her to go. There are tons of people who would kill for an opportunity to fulfill their dreams of acting, writing, etc.

Exactly. No one is forcing to be a fame whore in LA. 

I was really annoyed by Sailor crying. Come on its a silly dance show. I honestly felt it showed she'd probably never been told no in her life so couldn't process not getting her wish. 

James was really good and I think better bcause he was covering his strange head with a hat. Do that every week please James. 

I threw all my votes to Kel this week. I have no idea who he is because I only half pay attention to the rehearsal parts, but he is adorable and really improving. 

[Toonces464]

52 minutes ago, carrin817 said:

I agree, I could believe how many times I caught her squatting down to talk to the dancers & it didn't look good.

I remember back when she was a contestant she and Maks talked about her bow-leggedness and you could really see it in some of her dances.

[boyznkatz]

6 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

James was really good and I think better bcause he was covering his strange head with a hat. Do that every week please James. 

LOL I thought I was the only one who thought he had a weird shaped head. Oh well, this week it wouldn't have mattered because I was paying attention to his booty 😄

[BeeBop88]

15 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Sailor. 

Well can't say I was expecting that. Not so much Spicer still living to dance another day but Sailor being the one eliminated. I was sure Karamo or hell even Kel might have left before her. 

And no one can say girlfriend wasn't genuinely upset because poor girl had a full on snot moment on national television. Like being eliminated wasn't awful enough. I continue to not care much about this season, though I did enjoy James and Kate. 

eta: And this exactly why I've said, when many were adamant about the whole judges picking who to eliminate that sure it help, but at the end of the day, the  judges can't do a damn thing when a very weak dancer gets enough votes that they're not even in the Bottom 2. 

I have not looked at YT in the past few hrs but did not see the elim on there. So maybe TPTB did the right thing this time & did not post it to spare Sailor from embarrasment.

[OnTime]

12 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

I was really annoyed by Sailor crying. Come on its a silly dance show. I honestly felt it showed she'd probably never been told no in her life so couldn't process not getting her wish. 

That being said, I don't think she deserved all 9s on her dance.

So she probably expected to stay with those scores!

[iMonrey]

Quote

 The problem with Spicer, like with Bristol, is the purely political motivation many of his votes have. Which is why it was a horrible idea for the producers to bring him on. The show can't afford another toxic/controversial season. 

Didn't the show actually make the problem worse? As I understand it, live voting while the show is airing determines the bottom two, right? So voting stats are determined exclusively by people watching live. That's going to be comprised mostly of an older demographic - younger people just don't watch TV live anymore. 

If the show really did get a lot of blowback from last season's winner they clearly didn't learn anything, because they couldn't resist the temptation of casting someone controversial like Spicer as a ratings grab gimmick. They had to be fully aware of how that would play out. If they thought their new "system" would balance that out they didn't think it through.

[thesupremediva1]

So, they're doing with Spicer what they did with Bobby and Grocer Joe - they're scoring him on his own scale. An 8 for Hannah means a great dance with some errors. A 7 for Spicer means he got most of the steps right and didn't drop Lindsey. This isn't a new thing - it's meant to not embarrass the weaker dancers week after week, but it also means it's difficult to get them eliminated. Everyone better gear up - this isn't a political thing, this is a normal voting thing and it's been a pattern we've seen for years now. Plenty of not-so-great dancers have made the finals, and we've seen some seriously shock boots along the way. Heather Morris anyone? Tinashe anyone? For heaven's sake, Candace Cameron Bure outlasted Charlie White during the Maksyl season.

Sailor was not on that level of greatness to be called "shock boot." She didn't have a big, built-in fanbase and she wasn't as good as they scored her. I thought it was a joke that she got 9's while Hannah received 8's. With those kinds of scores, I think no one was inspired to vote for her. 

On another note, contemporary and a great story saved Karamo. I even threw him a few votes after that package. It got me all teary and choked up. That said, he didn't dance much in that number. Jenna was front and center doing all the work and taking all the spotlight. Not surprised but I cannot believe no one called her out on that. Oh well.

Hannah danced way better than 8's. Love her and Alan.

James deserved a 10. From no hip action to ALL THE HIP ACTION. He's really likable and quite talented. 

Ally isn't likable. I don't know why, but she grates on my last nerve. Why is Len such a fan-girl for her?? I adore Sasha so I'm not mad about her sticking around but she does nothing for me. 

Spicer might never hit the bottom 2. I don't think Sailor was properly prepared for an exit, but I totally get crying after being voted off while Spicer and - to a lesser extent - Karamo are still around. 

[Lovecat]

37 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

LOL I thought I was the only one who thought he [James] had a weird shaped head. Oh well, this week it wouldn't have mattered because I was paying attention to his booty 😄

Back in the Mighty Big TV days, there was a forum called "Dawson Leery Has a Head Like a Cereal Box," and I think of it every ding-dang time I see the Beek.  Of course now I have "Tutti Fruity, What a Booty" to replace it, which is much more pleasant 😉 

ETA:  I went down a google rabbit hole and found this article, published around the time "Don't Trust the B***" premiered.  Relevant quote re: cereal box head, which originally came from EW's review of Dawson's Creek:

"So the previously generic best friend to the series’ titular bitch became a broad version of the Beek. While Van Der Beek says he’s never traded on his Creek past to come on to a woman as his sitcom persona does, the actor gives the show’s writers fodder from his own life, like having his character compete on ABC’s Dancing With the Stars. 'I have been offered [DWTS],' says the actor, who passed. 'This was the most fun way to do it.' As Williamson sees it, Van Der Beek’s new foray into comedy isn’t surprising — it’s just the actor’s own personality finally coming to public light. While promoting the first season of Creek, Van Der Beek often stayed at Williamson’s house in L.A. Remembers the producer, 'ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY’s review had come out and it said James Van Der Beek had a "cereal box" head. So I come home one night, I go into the kitchen, and on the butcher block he’s taped his head shot to a box of Raisin Bran. Then, I realized he had a sense of humor.'"

Oh, Beek.  Make me love you more.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Lovecat

[Toonces464]

13 minutes ago, OnTime said:

That being said, I don't think she deserved all 9s on her dance.

So she probably expected to stay with those scores!

This week's voting was combined with last week's. I wonder if the judges purposely overscored Sailor knowing she was near the bottom 2 in order to try to push her over Sean. If so, it backfired.

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If the show really did get a lot of blowback from last season's winner they clearly didn't learn anything, because they couldn't resist the temptation of casting someone controversial like Spicer as a ratings grab gimmick. They had to be fully aware of how that would play out. If they thought their new "system" would balance that out they didn't think it through.

I think this new show runner sucks. The changes he's made have all backfired -- the judge's save, the loss of creative control of the dancers, and especially the casting. And I remember thinking he was so arrogant in his first interview.

[mbluecpa]

The last ~15 minutes was really uncomfortable with Lauren not looking up and Sailor breaking down while the camera stayed on them. I know there wasn’t time for a commercial break but the hosts/production could’ve done better.

I didn’t think Spicer’s dance was a total train wreck but given the 10s haven’t started flying yet, 7s seemed really high. 

The lighting effects for James’s dance made it really tough to see parts of it. Production and camera work this season has not been great. 

I’m thinking given the couple of highly emotional stories we got this week that they’ll probably skip “my most memorable year” this season. 

[vdw84]

44 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Ally isn't likable. I don't know why, but she grates on my last nerve. Why is Len such a fan-girl for her?? I adore Sasha so I'm not mad about her sticking around but she does nothing for me. 

Im actually shock at how much Len adores her. Usually Len seems like he cant stand the pop girls. Last season he gave Tinashe a truly hard time and she was miles better than Ally and deserved better from the judges esp. Len. He had an off and on relationship with Normani but he eventually came around but he was still kinda hard on her and if I remember correctly he wasnt too thrilled with Nicole her season not right off the bat. It wasnt till later on in the season he started praising her.

[JenLily]

5 hours ago, Ladyrain said:

That being said, has Sailor led such a pampered life that she's never experienced a thumbs-down moment?   She was crushed to be leaving (understandable) but she didn't seem to be able to deal with the shock and awe of it.   Life has ups AND downs, and I don't know if she's suffered many or any downs.   I could be wrong about that; just my take on it.

1 hour ago, TiredMe said:

I was really annoyed by Sailor crying. Come on its a silly dance show. I honestly felt it showed she'd probably never been told no in her life so couldn't process not getting her wish.

I find it interesting that so many people are assuming that Sailor crying somehow means she's led some charmed life surrounded by yes-men until now. I took it as a young, 21-year-old girl upset and embarrassed that not only was she getting kicked off a show where she was self-conscious about her skills in the first place, but it was happening on live TV in front of millions *and* it was happening because two people deliberately picked someone else over her. Know what I mean? I think it may have been easier to cope if it was just presented as "you didn't get enough votes" as opposed to "sorry but we just liked her more than you." Which, I'm not even saying that's how the judges feel but at 21 I was insecure enough that that's how I would've interpreted it. Hell, at twice that age I'd *still* have to give myself a quiet talking-to if I wanted to avoid slipping down that self-destructive rabbit hole.

4 hours ago, carrin817 said:

Side notes: Erin's pants, yay or nay?

I'm a hard yay except in a different color. Then again, I'm a sucker for a sequin. Must be why I can't quit this show. 😉

[RebeccatheWriter]

3 minutes ago, JenLily said:

I find it interesting that so many people are assuming that Sailor crying somehow means she's led some charmed life surrounded by yes-men until now. I took it as a young, 21-year-old girl upset and embarrassed that not only was she getting kicked off a show where she was self-conscious about her skills in the first place, but it was happening on live TV in front of millions *and* it was happening because two people deliberately picked someone else over her. Know what I mean? I think it may have been easier to cope if it was just presented as "you didn't get enough votes" as opposed to "sorry but we just liked her more than you." Which, I'm not even saying that's how the judges feel but at 21 I was insecure enough that that's how I would've interpreted it. Hell, at twice that age I'd *still* have to give myself a quiet talking-to if I wanted to avoid slipping down that self-destructive rabbit hole.

Agree. I'm an emotional crier. I hate it, but if I get the least bit stressed or upset, the tears start coming out. I'm far from entitled, but I would probably be the same way on the show. At that moment, I would be thinking what was the point of hours of practice weeks of stress to come in as the fourth(?) one voted out. Then I'd get upset at my own crying and cry harder because I didn't want to cry.  

I was hardly a fan, but rejection is hard on anyone. That's especially true when your mother has had a mega successful career and you are always being judged as not quite as good. And here she had to stand in front of an audience and not just be told she was not their pick, but hear the judges reconcile it. I would have been internally screaming to just let me go back stage. 

[Lady Calypso]

54 minutes ago, mbluecpa said:

The last ~15 minutes was really uncomfortable with Lauren not looking up and Sailor breaking down while the camera stayed on them. I know there wasn’t time for a commercial break but the hosts/production could’ve done better.

I think both Tom and Erin did what they could. Tom graciously went right into the results with Lauren instead of trying to ask her anything after the judges' comments, and Erin turned to Val to speak to him once she realized that Sailor was crying too hard to form any sort of words. I think Sailor's reaction was more than enough to explain how she was feeling. And then both of their partners, for what it's worth, did what they could to shield them from the cameras. Gleb ushered Lauren off once the scores were announced, and Val shielded Sailor from the cameras until everyone came on stage. 

I know that the focus was on both Lauren and Sailor for a reason, but the producers didn't tell the cameras to cut away so I put them more at fault, but still, it's live TV so where COULD they cut to? I think they could have cut away from Lauren after her dance when she was crying on her mom's shoulder, because it was awkward to see Gleb painfully aware that the cameras were on her and was trying to get her over to the judging table. 

16 minutes ago, JenLily said:

I think it may have been easier to cope if it was just presented as "you didn't get enough votes" as opposed to "sorry but we just liked her more than you."

Yeah, I think that's ultimately why I felt so bad for Sailor. She saw, from the moment that the bottom two was announced that she would go home and having to hear both Carrie Ann and Bruno give speeches on who they were choosing to save only delayed the thing that Sailor knew. 

[realdancemom]

16 hours ago, vdw84 said:

Not surprised about Ally. The band dismantled a longtime ago and she really hasnt done much with her solo career outside of the group like Normani and Camela who r the only ones popping from the group. Im not sure she has a strong enough fanbase as Normani did when she came onto the show because the group was still very much big at the time and yet Normani got 3rd place so Ally may be in trouble vote wise no matter how great she continues to dance.

Also, I think Normani is a far better dancer than Ally is.  So I wasn't surprised that Ally was at the bottom because of the other reasons that you mentioned.

I also wasn't surprised that Sailor was in the bottom because she really doesn't have her own fan base.  It was sad to see her cry though. 

I thought Karamo might be in the bottom since he previously was.  But he did have contemporary and his fans could have rallied since he was in the bottom before.

Not surprised that Spicer wasn't in the bottom but he should be.

[LadyMustang65]

I have always been a big fan of this show.  I haven't missed an episode ever.  But between the travesty that was Bobby Bones winning last year and the ridiculousness of the detestable Sean Spicer, I don't know what to think any more.  I loved that the first show they talked about how the pros would be serving up more content.  Yay!  That's a definite improvement.  But this voting?  Boo!  If I lived on the West Coast, I'm not sure I'd even bother to watch.  At least not live anyway.  Just catch the dances on YouTube or off your DRV at your convenience.  I'm not one to vote for a dance I haven't seen, so any incentive to wtach it live is gone.  

There are several things that are beyond me this season.  First is how is the horrific Spicer getting 7s?  He stomps around the floor with absolutely zero grace.  He's not fun to watch.  And given all the lies he told for the Orange Overlord, I simply cannot find him "likeable" in any way, shape or form.  His every appearance just reminds me how easily and earnestly he lied to the American public.  That's disgraceful!  I wanted him to be the first one booted off.  And then when he started with all that crap about how the judges don't like him because he's "Christian?"  WTF?  He's about as Christian as my left boot.  Ugh.  Now that we've reached the stage where he's eliminating much better dancers, I have to really stop myself from wishing he'd just break a leg.  And not in the good show business best of luck kind of way either.

Another thing that's beyond me is how is James not at or near the top of the leaderboard every week?  He is definitely one of the better dancers on the show this season.  Last night he was definitely the best but still got tied with Kate (not a fan of hers but I did like her waltz) and Sailor (who I like but that was not a 27 performance!!).  I know it's not as bad as it seems to me, but except for the first week, he has not been at the top of the leaderboard until last night, and most weeks it seems like he's in the middle of the pack somewhere.  And I invariably end up at least once during the night asking myself, "how the heck did that dance score higher than James?"  Oh well.  

Also, was it just me or was some of the lighting really horrible last night?  Are they trying to give us all headaches?  Tone it down, folks.  Some of us actually want to be able to see the dancers!

The pants weren't the best look for Erin last night, but I thought her hair, makeup and jewelry were all very nice.  I do like her.  Sometimes she can be a bit much, but overall I really enjoy her as the co-host.

At this point James is my favorite by a hair.  I also really like Kel.  I didn't know who Kate was before this show, and there's something about her that puts me off.  Not quite sure what, though.  But I thought she did a lovely VW last night, and I give her mad props for not either falling over or throwing up (or both) after all that spinning!  But it was the most Viennese-Waltz-looking VW that I ever remember seeing on the show.  It's a beautiful dance.  Not that you'd know from watching Spicer.  Ugh.  Outside of Spicer, I like (to a greater or lesser degree) all of the other contestants, and I think they're all doing a creditable job (even Sailor and Karamo).  Spicer is the vinegar that's curdling the milk.  I do love Lindsey but that's not enough to get me to vote for Spicer.  

Oh well.  Not sure where I'm going with all this.  Just needed to vent maybe.  The way things are going, this could well be DWTS' last season.  I'm not sure it can survive both Bobby Bones and Sean Spicer back to back.  Which is too bad.  Would love to see it go out on a high note when it finally ends.

Edited October 22, 2019 by LadyMustang65

[Toonces464]

Teams for next week, per the ABC Press Release. I wish they would've flip-flopped James and Sean.

Team Trick:  James & Emma, Ally & Sasha, Lauren & Gleb, Hannah & Alan

Team Treat: Karamo & Jenna, Kel & Whitney, Sean & Lindsay, Kate & Pasha.

[boyznkatz]

2 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Teams for next week, per the ABC Press Release. I wish they would've flip-flopped James and Sean.

Team Trick:  James & Emma, Ally & Sasha, Lauren & Gleb, Hannah & Alan

Team Treat: Karamo & Jenna, Kel & Whitney, Sean & Lindsay, Kate & Pasha.

So they put the four worst dancers on the same team? 

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Also, was it just me or was some of the lighting really horrible last night?  Are they trying to give us all headaches?  Tone it down, folks.  Some of us actually want to be able to see the dancers!

Ironically, I think the darkest one was to a song called Light it Up.

I like Kate well enough (but I've never watched The Office). I'm rooting for her because I just really enjoy watching Pasha.

[spanana]

7 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

So they put the four worst dancers on the same team? 

I don't think Lauren is a better dancer than either Kel or Kate by a long shot.  The teams are very unbalanced but Lauren is not that good.

I do think some of you have brought up a good point though about how the judges eliminating you might be harder on the celebs in a way. I don't mind the concept and I get why they did it, but it is a good point that it feels like the public rejected you and then the judges rejected you on top of that.  Then in Sailor's case it was a unanimous rejection.  I expect the judges aren't going to like this decision part on their end either because unless Sean finally lands it the B2 it's going to be a controversial decision no matter what.  But if you remember poor little Willow from way back when who fully broke down at 14.  Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if the judges sent her home?

Edited October 22, 2019 by spanana

[perfectstorm]

32 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Teams for next week, per the ABC Press Release. I wish they would've flip-flopped James and Sean.

Team Trick:  James & Emma, Ally & Sasha, Lauren & Gleb, Hannah & Alan

Team Treat: Karamo & Jenna, Kel & Whitney, Sean & Lindsay, Kate & Pasha.

It could be that James and Karamo were the team leads and picked their teams - playground style.

It's really not that lopsided.  James and Ally are strong, but so are Kel and Kate.

Edited October 22, 2019 by tealeaves

[FilmTVGeek80]

7 hours ago, spanana said:

Speaking of Bobby, as it relates to this show and this episode, I've never seen a past winner who still has so much of a chip on their shoulder.  Also he's being shitty to this seasons contestants for no reason.  I remember early in the season he posted something about how there were only four likeable celebs this season.  I know he mentioned Lauren (of course) and Kate but I don't know who else.

Then this week he was trying to goad Lauren on his radio show into how none of the Hollywood sites are supporting Lauren but they are supporting "bachelorette lady" and other Hollywood types and didn't she think it was unfair and that is why country has to stick together.  This man now has a chip on his shoulder on Lauren's behalf.

Then right after last night's elimination he was endlessly tweeting making fun of any fans that were upset by the elimination and that is what happens if you aren't likeable or make yourself vulnerable and then of course making it about him and he was the most likeable last season.  Bobby, there is no alternate reality where you are the most likeable.

Anyway, long story short I wish he would leave Lauren alone and not get his stink on her.  Also Alan got a little snarky with Bobby online (yay!) because Bobby like refuses to say Hannah's name but makes vague references to her.

But I know Alfonso made a few weird comments seasons later, but I've seen a recent past winner like Bobby who is so ornery who will talk crap against others but then plays the victim if anyone turns it on him.

God, what a dick! But, go Alan, for defending her. I mean, I do get why Bobby has a chip on his shoulder about the show because he knows how many people took his winning and how he is regarded by a lot of people as the worst winner of the show by far. I'm sure he realizes that the show probably took a whole season off to recover from that mess. Normally, I'd feel sorry for someone having to deal with dealing with that kind of criticism but he's such an egotistical asshole that it him striking back is less out of insecurity and embarrassment than anger that people actually dare not think his winning was the best thing ever.

2 hours ago, Lovecat said:

Oh, Beek.  Make me love you more.

Hee! That was such an awesome story! 

1 hour ago, JenLily said:

I find it interesting that so many people are assuming that Sailor crying somehow means she's led some charmed life surrounded by yes-men until now. I took it as a young, 21-year-old girl upset and embarrassed that not only was she getting kicked off a show where she was self-conscious about her skills in the first place, but it was happening on live TV in front of millions *and* it was happening because two people deliberately picked someone else over her.

Like I said before, initially I thought her crying was a bit excessive (my first thought was "damn, girl you haven't been murdered") but thinking about it more, I do get it. I get embarrassed ridiculously easily and I can't imagine being in front of millions and dealing with that embarrassment in a truly graceful way. It never really crossed my mind that she was crying because she was spoiled and not used to getting her own way. I look at less like "It's just Dancing with the Stars, calm down" and more like "how would I react at the thought that I was deemed less popular than Sean frigging Spicer." I'm crying now just thinking about that. 

18 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

So they put the four worst dancers on the same team? 

I assume you're referring to Team Treat. I would say I find Kel and Kate better dancers than Lauren. And I would say they're both pretty much on par with Hannah and Aly.

[Toonces464]

34 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

So they put the four worst dancers on the same team? 

Cumulatively, Kel has a higher score than Lauren.

Rank
1 Hannah & Alan 23.0

1 James & Emma 23.0

3 Ally & Sasha 22.7

4 Sailor & Val 22.2

5 Kel & Witney 22.0

6 Lauren & Gleb 21.8

7 Kate & Pasha 21.7

8 Karamo & Jenna 19.8

9 Sean & Lindsay 16.3

10 Mary & Brandon 16.0

11 Ray & Cheryl 15.0

12 Lamar & Peta 12.0

[MsJamieDornan]

https://hollywoodlife.com/2019/10/22/sailor-brinkley-cook-dwts-farewell-instagram/

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

It’s this giant ass chip on the shoulder attitude that’s sucking the joy out of it for me. Bobby Bones & his fans have it. Spicer & his cult have it. You know if he ever does get eliminated the crying about “bias” will never stop.

I’ll take a girl crying a bit too hard when she gets eliminated because she wanted it too hard over that “woah is me, own the libs/Hollywood elite/whoever you’re blaming today” whining every day. 

A-freaking-men. The whining about that stuff just turns me off even more. 

6 hours ago, ams1001 said:

My own side note: I hate it when the music doesn't seem to match the style of dance. Like a country Samba, for instance. There was another one I felt was off but I can't remember what it was, now.

Agreed. I think that definitely plays a factor in how well a dance plays out, too. Some songs are just not meant for ballroom dancing. 

[boyznkatz]

20 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Cumulatively, Kel has a higher score than Lauren.

Rank
1 Hannah & Alan 23.0

1 James & Emma 23.0

3 Ally & Sasha 22.7

4 Sailor & Val 22.2

5 Kel & Witney 22.0

6 Lauren & Gleb 21.8

7 Kate & Pasha 21.7

8 Karamo & Jenna 19.8

9 Sean & Lindsay 16.3

10 Mary & Brandon 16.0

11 Ray & Cheryl 15.0

12 Lamar & Peta 12.0

The top three are still on one team, though. And Lauren is only 0.2 points behind Kel. Karamo and Sean by far have the lowest scores. That doesn't sound very fair.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I have also seen comments on Twitter, both sincere and trolling, about mass-voting for Sean to "trigger the libs," and I would assume now that Bobby had fans voting to trigger the ~Hollywood snobs~ given how he's talking about this season. In both cases, it's not only an immature attitude but also one that's incapable of grasping that it's not the "libs" and "elite" out to get you; most people who watch this show and care enough to vote enjoy dance and want to see good dancers succeed. This culture war mentality just exposes how out of touch these same voters are with what normal viewers prioritize and, well, with the concept that dance ability is actually a real thing.

Good freaking lord, this. For cripes' sakes, they've had Tucker Carlson, Tom DeLay, Bristol Palin, and now Sean Spicer on here, but sure, this show totally has it out for conservatives. Please. 

(To say nothing of how being a liberal doesn't automatically also make you part of the elite, either, but whatever.)

5 hours ago, Lovecat said:

I had the same thought, gave a full-body shudder, and went back to my coping mechanism, which is pretending that Spicer dancing is really Melissa McCarthy *as* Spicer dancing.  Trust me, it helps.

This is a great idea. I'm gonna try that next week :D. 

[Toonces464]

13 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

The top three are still on one team, though. And Lauren is only 0.2 points behind Kel. Karamo and Sean by far have the lowest scores. That doesn't sound very fair.

Not sure why they didn't go two guys and two girls.

[perfectstorm]

23 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

The top three are still on one team, though. And Lauren is only 0.2 points behind Kel. Karamo and Sean by far have the lowest scores. That doesn't sound very fair.

But if the Top 3 are on one team - it could be that James (as the team lead) picked them.

In the past, the person who tops the leaderboard (James did that with his combined scores from this week and last) becomes the captain.  That person also gets to pick the opposing captain.  And he and Karamo are friends.

Edited October 22, 2019 by tealeaves

[spanana]

19 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

The top three are still on one team, though. And Lauren is only 0.2 points behind Kel. Karamo and Sean by far have the lowest scores. That doesn't sound very fair.

Yes but that is also only if the competitors are being scored fairly, which I know is subjective. I could easily say that Lauren and Sailor, IMO, have been somewhat overscored most weeks.  Their scores IMO aren't necessarily the be all end all of dance talent.

The James team has it way easier because even though Lauren isn't great, she's not bad and she can learn easy choreography and not stick out in a bad way.  She just needs to blend in with the others.  They also have it easier because they are group of four that should be able to blend together without a sore thumb sticking out, which is mostly what you want in a group dance.

I still stand by the fact IMO that both Kel and Kate are stronger dancers than Lauren and honestly Ally is doing fine, but she's not amazing either so I'm not even sure I'd say how much better she is than them either.  However where this team is going to struggle is it's not a group that can blend.  Sean is bad and will stick out in a bad way and Karamo, I think might be okay if it's not a ballroom style.  Are their group dances freestyles?  Karamo may be able to handle a more freeform dance. 

[edie3]

19 hours ago, OnTime said:

Would we really see Sean Spicer dancing contemporary?

Oh dear God!