S17.E02: Into the Light

[thewhiteowl]

With their lives in danger, Gibbs and Ziva's rogue investigation takes an unexpected turn when a possible terrorist plot is revealed.

[Katy M]

Ziva is still being ridiculous.  You don't look for dead people.  Because they're dead.  Gibbs might not realize he's on a TV show and in real life, dead people are usually just dead.

Bishop annoyed me to no end.  Her hero worship of someone's she's never even met is just over-the-top.  I guess Torres was, too, but it seemed lesser to me for whatever reason.   I don't usually like Kasie all that much, but she had the right idea tonight.

Yay, we had some Ducky.

Luring them out with a fight worked?  Did they not wonder why random people came out to the middle of nowhere to fight in front of their hideout?  Like really?  I think I'm smarter than that and I'm not all that smart.

Why isn't Ziva mad at McGee for not looking for her?  Is McGee not family?  Their interaction was the only time I wasn't annoyed with Ziva tonight so there is that.  

Am I forgetting to be annoyed by anything?

[enoughcats]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

being ridiculous.

I was waiting for a scene to open in a steamy bathroom, for Tony-look-alike to step out from behind a shower curtain, and for Ziva to say Good Morning, with a perky voice. 

Tonight's episode seemed endless in a way that (in my mind) had assistants with stop watches making sure everyone got their 2-3 minutes of talk.  

Let's go and see how Emily's doing in rehab. 

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

I was waiting for a scene to open in a steamy bathroom, for Tony-look-alike to step out from behind a shower curtain, and for Ziva to say Good Morning, with a perky voice. 

Speaking of Tony, he was so young in that flashback.  Why do we get old?

[Donder]

This show is on its last legs. Lacks the passion with the art of earlier seasons and this was a ratings bust. Ziva was the last card they could have played, they played it badly.

[Jeopardy15]

I cannot believe that Ziva tried to lay a guilt trip on Gibbs. WTF! Dead people should stay dead. Tony and Tali are better off without it her. 

[stonehaven]

Kasie was the high point. I still don't understand the whole Ziva worship...I really could care less about the people on this show...and I wish Mark Harmon would hold my attention but he's not even doing that..I think the last great episode for me was the Palmer on the ledge one...and I may watch the final few episodes of the series...but yeah, I am out.

[Runningwild]

I’m out. I couldn’t even hate watch these first two episodes. 10 seconds of Ziva and Gibbs hollering was enough for me.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Runningwild

[statsgirl]

Somehow I get the feeling that this episode isn't going to please either the Ziva lovers or the Ziva haters.

I think the two biggest mistakes were not wrapping it up (Ziva still has one more thing to do but it makes no sense that she wouldn't talk to Tony on the phone), and the "you didn't come after me". The writing tried to explain it, Gibbs didn't because he couldn't bear it if she really were dead (so it's better not to know for sure???), and she went after him and McGee in Paraguay to extract vengeance if they were dead (a nice callback to Truth or Consequences when the team went after the terrorist for vengeance when they thought she was dead) , but it didn't feel authentic for either Gibbs or Ziva.  He prefers being the emotional mute and she's always accepted that she could get jettisoned by people she cares about and Eli jettisoned her.

We get it, Gibbs thinks of her as a daughter. Nice to have it verified in-show again but he felt that way about Abby too.

I did like that Ziva left them breadcrumbs on how to find her at the end.

Vance has really become one-note.

Sean Murray is really starting to look like Patric McKenna I thought I was watching last night's Murdoch Mysteries at times

[weathered1]

I wasn't ever a huge Ziva fan, but these episodes have made me actively dislike her. (And the deification of Ziva David by almost everyone was over the top and irritating in the extreme.)

She's oh so upset (and blathering endlessly on about the fact) that Gibbs never looked for her, yet had he done so, those wanting Ziva dead might've taken notice, figured out that something was amiss, and, say, gone after her daughter just to flush her out. 

In other words, it seems to me that for Ziva's cover and plan (which was stupid, by the way) to work, every single one of her nearest and dearest had to be pretty certain that she was dead. Had that not been the case, it would've far too easy for said cover to be blown and her loved ones to be placed in great danger. Again. Some more. 

Then, too, she even said herself that a body wasn't found, so . . . how exactly was it that the bad guys were so sure that she was dead; so certain, in fact, that all of the threats they posed to her daughter were instantaneously gone? 

Why wouldn't the bad guys have gone after Tally and Tony anyway just because they wanted Ziva to pay and/or on the off chance that she really was still among the living and/or just because they're, you know, bad guys? For that matter, there was this gigantic threat that required Ziva to play dead for years, yet she never thought it would be a good idea to give Tony a heads up that super duper evil bad guys might go after their daughter at some point? 

In my view, this was just an exceedingly dumb, chock-full-o'-holes storyline that made many of the characters look pretty bad. The one bright spot was Ducky; but then, given the way this show has gone downhill, he's usually the lone bright spot, imo.

[Magnumfangirl]

22 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

She's oh so upset (and blathering endlessly on about the fact) that Gibbs never looked for her, yet had he done so, those wanting Ziva dead might've taken notice, figured out that something was amiss, and, say, gone after her daughter just to flush her out. 

I agree with everything you said.  I'm going to speculate that the writers were trying to hint at Ziva wishing Gibbs would find her and come up with a better plan than playing dead.  Why they wouldn't just have her come right out and say that I don't know.  They way they wrote it made it look like Mark Harmon was groveling to Cote instead of Gibbs and Ziva having a normal (for them) interaction.

[weathered1]

2 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

I agree with everything you said.  I'm going to speculate that the writers were trying to hint at Ziva wishing Gibbs would find her and come up with a better plan than playing dead.  Why they wouldn't just have her come right out and say that I don't know.  They way they wrote it made it look like Mark Harmon was groveling to Cote instead of Gibbs and Ziva having a normal (for them) interaction.

This brings up another point. If all it took to end the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad threat to Ziva, Tally, et. al., was for Ziva to work with Gibbs and the team . . . why didn't she just do that in the first place? I realize that Cote leaving precluded that at the time, but surely they could've come up with something better than what we've been watching. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by weathered1

[mommalib]

I loved Kasie's reaction about Ziva. Mcgee was the only thing that made her likeable. It's funny that even Gibbs kinda has to bow to Ziva, I thought Harmon was powerful.

Edited October 2, 2019 by mommalib

[preeya]

If I never hear ZEEVA DAHVEED again, it'll still be too soon.

[brgjoe]

I didn't think it was possible, but Ziva became even *more* insufferable in this episode.  Halfway through it, was hoping Ziva would shoot ME, so I wouldn't have endure this episode any longer. 

I could kinda-sorta make an excuse for her whining about Gibbs not trying to find her in last week's episode.  They were both went through a tough ordeal that almost got both of them killed.  So maybe that's what she felt in the heat of the moment.  But in this episode, she kept going on and on about being "abandoned" somehow by Gibbs.  Get over yourself!  She was declared dead in a foreign country.  Gibbs doesn't any jurisdiction there (not that it had stopped him before, but still....).  You would think a Mossad super-duper agent type would find a way to get their hands on a burner phone and send word to Gibbs that she's alive and stuff.

Not sure I understand Ziva's alerting Interpol to be on the lookout for people coming by to pick up their $$.  Doesn't everybody pretty much these days use electronic banking?  That is, you could have access to accounts from all over the world.  It's not like they have to physically show up and pick up their loot any longer.

The fight outside to lure the people out of the building was so silly.  I was thinking to myself at the time, "Yeah, like that's going to work."  I could see maybe one or two of them leaving their post to look at it.  But the entire gang?  Seriously? 

I suppose the most ardent Ziva-fanatics would enjoy these 2 episodes.  But they mostly just made me groan.  I really hope we can get back to the "case of the week" stories now. 

[Katy M]

So, I realized the bad guy last night said she was going to kidnap Gibbs to force Ziva to work with them. Wouldn't Tally be easier and more effective in that regard?

[shrewd.buddha]

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

Why isn't Ziva mad at McGee for not looking for her?  Is McGee not family? 

I am completely over television shows where co-workers constantly refer to one another as family  ... but are always, constantly, surprised by every. single. thing. that comes up in one another's life.
And they never, ever, tell one another anything of significance (until after the fact). 

[willowk]

Gibbs is tired, and broken down, hated seeing him like that. But we do all get old. Ziva was right that there were hints she wasn't dead, they didn't mention it last night, but Tony said he was going to follow up on certain things that didn't add up about her "death". Gibbs did close the door on her, but that was because (spoiler!) the actress left the show. They left out Tony's plan to search for her I imagine it didn't work out, or he had less time given he was raising their daughter.

[camussie]

Ziva remains insufferable as ever.  I get she had a horrible father but she is not Gibbs' daughter and since she was the one playing dead to protect people she had no right to be angry that people didn't search for her.  

Beyond that the Mary Sue writing for Ziva continues to grate.  Of course she was about to rescue Gibbs and McGee without little to no help from anyone else and of course she beat up anyone and everyone and of course they all follow her orders.  

Finally it seems she isn't going to let Tony know she is alive just yet.  Way to force several other people who care a lot about him to lie (by omission) to him.  If and when he finds out Ziva is alive and finds out everyone on his former team knew before he did and didn't bother to tell him I cannot imagine how betrayed he will feel.  

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, camussie said:

Finally it seems she isn't going to let Tony know she is alive just yet.  Way to force several other people who care a lot about him to lie (by omission) to him.  If and when he finds out Ziva is alive and finds out everyone on his former team knew before he did and didn't bother to tell him I cannot imagine how betrayed he will feel.  

And what's the point of keeping it a secret from him, anyway?  If all the bad guys and some of the good guys know, does it make a difference if one more good guy knows?  Waht's he going to do?  Tell the one bad guy who wasn't in on the loop?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, camussie said:

Finally it seems she isn't going to let Tony know she is alive just yet.  Way to force several other people who care a lot about him to lie (by omission) to him.  If and when he finds out Ziva is alive and finds out everyone on his former team knew before he did and didn't bother to tell him I cannot imagine how betrayed he will feel.  

It's Tony! He doesn't deserve this bit of respect and loyalty. [heavy on the sarcasm here]😒

[camussie]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

And what's the point of keeping it a secret from him, anyway?  If all the bad guys and some of the good guys know, does it make a difference if one more good guy knows?  Waht's he going to do?  Tell the one bad guy who wasn't in on the loop?

There is that too.  I mean if Ziva is a target shouldn't he have a head's up that he and his daughter could possible be one as well?

[valen]

I'm pretty sure she kept her daughter a secret from most. That's why the bad guys didn't go after her. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by valen

[camussie]

53 minutes ago, valen said:

I'm pretty sure she kept her daughter a secret from most. That's why the bad guys didn't go after her. 

I am sure she thinks she did but if the bad guys are going after people she cares about then it is logical Tony would be included in that group.  If he is and they saw he had a daughter it wouldn't take much to put 2 and 2 together 

Edited October 2, 2019 by camussie

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, valen said:

I'm pretty sure she kept her daughter a secret from most. That's why the bad guys didn't go after her. 

But didn't the woman last night mention her?

[Chaos Theory]

I did not miss Ziva at all.

Although it might have bern nice  to have an actual Ziva/Tony moment.

[eel21788]

23 hours ago, Katy M said:

Am I forgetting to be annoyed by anything?

What does Ziva think will happen when she is deemed "safe"? Does she take Tali back from DiNozzo? Do they plan to co-parent together in Paris? Tali was so young when she went to live with DiNozzo that she probably has little to no memory of Ziva now.  

[bybrandy]

4 hours ago, eel21788 said:

What does Ziva think will happen when she is deemed "safe"? Does she take Tali back from DiNozzo? Do they plan to co-parent together in Paris? Tali was so young when she went to live with DiNozzo that she probably has little to no memory of Ziva now.  

Like seriously, I know it won't happen but I so want a reveal that DiNozzo met a nice girl in Paris and is now married with three more children.  Just because every time she mentioned going back to Tony and Tali I was like, aren't you a little bit worried that they have a whole new life?  Because you've been gone like a long time and you could have made that time shorter by grabbing a couple of burner phones and calling Gibbs but no you'd rather wait until he stumbles upon you Where's Waldo like.

[TVForever]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:19 PM, Katy M said:

Speaking of Tony, he was so young in that flashback.  Why do we get old?

Seriously, that's the Micheal Weatherly I see whenever I watch Bull (which isn't much, but that's another topic for another forum, lol).

On 10/1/2019 at 10:14 PM, stonehaven said:

Kasie was the high point. I still don't understand the whole Ziva worship...I really could care less about the people on this show...and I wish Mark Harmon would hold my attention but he's not even doing that..I think the last great episode for me was the Palmer on the ledge one...and I may watch the final few episodes of the series...but yeah, I am out.

Kasie for the win!! I LOVED that scene. 

BTW, I wish I had known all there were so many of you who felt like me about Ziva. I never really liked Ziva from day one, and came to dislike her even more over time as she became the Thing That Ate the Show. I was glad to see her go, and could only roll my eyes at her resurrection. And now, we can be guaranteed that her presence will continue to hang over this show until it ends.

Yay,

[lh25]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:22 PM, weathered1 said:

In other words, it seems to me that for Ziva's cover and plan (which was stupid, by the way) to work, every single one of her nearest and dearest had to be pretty certain that she was dead.

Exactly.  And throughout these two episodes, they made the point over and over that Ziva always has a plan and it's best to let her do what she's going to

[valen]

21 hours ago, Katy M said:

But didn't the woman last night mention her?

I don't think she referenced her daughter specifically. 

[Ebau]

I think this episode would have played better if Ziva would have appeared to "turn traitor" earlier in the episode, instead of in the last ten minutes so that at least some of the drama was drawn out. Overall, however, I don't think these first two of the season were any better or worse than what we've come to expect from NCIS over the past few years. I mean, the return of Ziva wasn't as earth-shattering as Spock showing up in the TNG episode "Reunification" (which was awe-some!), but it was interesting to catch up with what she's been up to, since we all knew going in that she did not die when her house was blown to smithereens.

But, hey, look at it this way: next week heralds the beginning of the Jack 'n' Jethro show, if the previews are to be believed. If those two hook up, Gibbs can spend the next few years in the throes of multiple emotional orgasms with the always-accessible, yet oddly-disheveled resident shrink. (Who was it on this forum who demanded that someone give that woman a hairbrush?)

#DoesMedicarePayForCondoms

#IShipOldFarts

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ebau

[SG11]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:02 PM, Katy M said:

Ziva is still being ridiculous.  You don't look for dead people.  Because they're dead.  Gibbs might not realize he's on a TV show and in real life, dead people are usually just dead.

Bishop annoyed me to no end.  Her hero worship of someone's she's never even met is just over-the-top.  I guess Torres was, too, but it seemed lesser to me for whatever reason.   I don't usually like Kasie all that much, but she had the right idea tonight.

Yay, we had some Ducky.

Luring them out with a fight worked?  Did they not wonder why random people came out to the middle of nowhere to fight in front of their hideout?  Like really?  I think I'm smarter than that and I'm not all that smart.

Why isn't Ziva mad at McGee for not looking for her?  Is McGee not family?  Their interaction was the only time I wasn't annoyed with Ziva tonight so there is that.  

Am I forgetting to be annoyed by anything?

No you pretty much covered it.

Another horrible episode. How do you have an Ace Card to play with Zivas return and blow it with terrible, terrible writing? Zivas still crying at Gibbs? Everyone still worshipping Ziva. 

And the show still has Palmer and the Abbey replacement. Torres acting like a 12 year old. Whatsherface Psych Doc has lost her edge. McGee is a whiner DadBod.  Bishop apparently can do whatever strikes her. The Director has no control.

What a complete mess.

[statsgirl]

I didn't get the point of Ziva taking pills. Yes, she's stressed out, er know. Also that's not the way anti-anxiety pills work.

After 16 seasons, there are only so many "dead marine found in ____" and "the CIA/Mosada/Hamas etc is evil" stories you can write so at this point what works is the relationship between characters; the connections and the balances. Somehow this episode managed to drop the ball on just about all of them, including Vance who seems to have forgotten everything he knew about Gibbs. And had Ducky really that little to do that he's going to sit for 4 hours in the dark?

13 hours ago, TVForever said:

BTW, I wish I had known all there were so many of you who felt like me about Ziva. I never really liked Ziva from day one, and came to dislike her even more over time as she became the Thing That Ate the Show. I was glad to see her go, and could only roll my eyes at her resurrection. And now, we can be guaranteed that her presence will continue to hang over this show until it ends.

I find that most people here don't like Ziva, as the old TWoP board didn't. It's why I rarely post here.

Kate's presence still hangs around and she was on for a lot less than Ziva. So does Mike Franks' and he barely made recurring.  It's something the show has always been consistent about.

[Forsaken]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:02 AM, Katy M said:

Ziva is still being ridiculous.  You don't look for dead people.  Because they're dead.  Gibbs might not realize he's on a TV show and in real life, dead people are usually just dead.

Bishop annoyed me to no end.  Her hero worship of someone's she's never even met is just over-the-top.  I guess Torres was, too, but it seemed lesser to me for whatever reason.   I don't usually like Kasie all that much, but she had the right idea tonight.

Yay, we had some Ducky.

Luring them out with a fight worked?  Did they not wonder why random people came out to the middle of nowhere to fight in front of their hideout?  Like really?  I think I'm smarter than that and I'm not all that smart.

Why isn't Ziva mad at McGee for not looking for her?  Is McGee not family?  Their interaction was the only time I wasn't annoyed with Ziva tonight so there is that.  

Am I forgetting to be annoyed by anything?

Gibbs is looking far too old and perhaps doesn't realize that dead people aren't just sleeping?I guess you do look for bodies though, maybe? No, I don't think they do unless they have an idea where the body might be first?

Are you forgetting about being annoyed by anything? Maybe just at a show that has lasted way longer than it should have?

On 10/2/2019 at 11:27 AM, Donder said:

This show is on its last legs. Lacks the passion with the art of earlier seasons and this was a ratings bust. Ziva was the last card they could have played, they played it badly.

I was sick of Ziva the first time around let alone copping another dose. She presents herself like some kind of bad bitch and plays a rough game then gets upset at the consequences. 

This show died when DiNozzo left, every newbie they have thrown in since is forgettable even when they were on the show. 

[SG11]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I didn't get the point of Ziva taking pills. Yes, she's stressed out, er know. Also that's not the way anti-anxiety pills work.

After 16 seasons, there are only so many "dead marine found in ____" and "the CIA/Mosada/Hamas etc is evil" stories you can write so at this point what works is the relationship between characters; the connections and the balances. Somehow this episode managed to drop the ball on just about all of them, including Vance who seems to have forgotten everything he knew about Gibbs. And had Ducky really that little to do that he's going to sit for 4 hours in the dark?

Quote

BTW, I wish I had known all there were so many of you who felt like me about Ziva. I never really liked Ziva from day one, and came to dislike her even more over time as she became the Thing That Ate the Show. I was glad to see her go, and could only roll my eyes at her resurrection. And now, we can be guaranteed that her presence will continue to hang over this show until it ends.

I find that most people here don't like Ziva, as the old TWoP board didn't. It's why I rarely post here.

Kate's presence still hangs around and she was on for a lot less than Ziva. So does Mike Franks' and he barely made recurring.  It's somethin

I don’t dislike Ziva. I find women crime fighters to be difficult to portray, because if they are too over the top at hand to hand combat and beating up men twice their size or amazing with firearms and weapons, etc, they come across as comic book caricatures.

Ziva was an interesting Israeli operative that seemed believable in her training and had that comic relief of not using contractions and getting pop culture phrasing wrong. I liked her for awhile but it seemed she had a shelf life, that as time went on her character wore thin as she and Tony started in and her prowess started to become a little silly. I think her character would have been better served getting killed in a heroic, dramatic episode years ago.

She reminds me of Abby in this way. Interesting fun character for awhile, but geez a couple decades of “GibbGibbsGibbs” was enough. And how do you start out as the edgy, cool goth girl and 15 years later be that old Harley Chick that still hasn’t changed her style since the Clinton Administration?

Mentioning Kate, I liked her a lot, but I don’t agree that she made some massive impression on the show. Certainly not like Ziva’s character. She was breathtakingly beautiful though, so yeah, wish she was still on.

Out of the current cast, Bishop did win me over with her personality and character development, but right now she’s stuck in the mud along with the rest of them. I can’t stand Abby’s replacement and I essentially turn the TV off when Palmer speaks. After all these years he still talked like babbling child when the Ziva “secret” came out. Just. hate. that. Guy.

I agree the show is past its due date. Like Special Victims Unit, sometimes longevity isn’t the best idea, especially if it’s existing to serve someone’s ego.

[Welcome5431]

Team Gibbs Must have /should have /neglected to update Zzziva's clearances and her background check to reflect most of the past decade before they let her back into the bullpen.

She is declared dead and in the secure Naval building off record? Other "family "members are able to come inside the office to consult on cases but people they're able to provide a current background check 

Some jobs require employees to be re-trained and debriefed after a two week absence from work 

The show has ambiguities around the status of alive or dead, as the boundaries thin between the living and the dead, this October moon. The ambiguities caused confusion over when to rescue each other or just let supposedly  deceased teammates rest in peace 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Welcome5431

[SG11]

Welcome makes a good point. When Ziva walked in, I expected McGee to be right behind her. How does she walk into that building, let alone that secure an area without creds? TS clearance and access to sciffs are updated to the minute. I know Ziva is a superpowered ghost operative that can do anything, but it made no sense at all.

By the way, she managed to place a bug there. Anyone responsible for security in her path should have been working in Starbucks by the end of next shift.

[buckboard]

statsgirl wrote:
Kate's presence still hangs around and she was on for a lot less than Ziva. So does Mike Franks' and he barely made recurring.  It's something the show has always been consistent about.

I disagree, statsgirl.  Kate and Mike Franks were mentioned off and on for a couple of years after they were killed, but they haven't been a presence for many years.  Abby, who was with the show since its beginning, is all but forgotten, but then again, Pauley Parrette ticked off Mark Harmon big time. 

Ziva wasn't mentioned all that much after Tony left,  before they came up with this ferkackta idea of how to bring her back from the dead.  Now everyone is enthralled by Ziva - including people who never knew her.  (Except for my heroine, Kaisie, who understands that the emperor has no clothes.)

[CheshireCat]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:08 PM, SG11 said:

Welcome makes a good point. When Ziva walked in, I expected McGee to be right behind her.

So did I. She didn't even have a visitor's pass or anything, so that was weird.

On 10/4/2019 at 12:36 PM, SG11 said:

Ziva was an interesting Israeli operative that seemed believable in her training and had that comic relief of not using contractions and getting pop culture phrasing wrong. I liked her for awhile but it seemed she had a shelf life, that as time went on her character wore thin as she and Tony started in and her prowess started to become a little silly. I think her character would have been better served getting killed in a heroic, dramatic episode years ago.

I don't know how believable Ziva was. I guess, she was to some extent, but I never took her fighting skills entirely seriously. With regards to her fighting/intelligence skilled, I viewed her more like I view James Bond, with a twinkle in the eye.

But I liked her overall. She was quite a complex character, especially for a procedural. Sometimes so much so that it felt her character sort of got away from the writers. I also agree about the "shelf life". Once she left Mossad, they somehow didn't seem to know what to do with her anymore which I think was a pity.

On 10/3/2019 at 12:58 AM, bybrandy said:

Like seriously, I know it won't happen but I so want a reveal that DiNozzo met a nice girl in Paris and is now married with three more children.  Just because every time she mentioned going back to Tony and Tali I was like, aren't you a little bit worried that they have a whole new life? 

She had that photo with Tali in the background, so I'm assuming she's been in Paris every now and then.

On 10/1/2019 at 11:11 PM, statsgirl said:

Somehow I get the feeling that this episode isn't going to please either the Ziva lovers or the Ziva haters.

I think the two biggest mistakes were not wrapping it up (Ziva still has one more thing to do but it makes no sense that she wouldn't talk to Tony on the phone), and the "you didn't come after me". The writing tried to explain it, Gibbs didn't because he couldn't bear it if she really were dead (so it's better not to know for sure???), and she went after him and McGee in Paraguay to extract vengeance if they were dead (a nice callback to Truth or Consequences when the team went after the terrorist for vengeance when they thought she was dead) , but it didn't feel authentic for either Gibbs or Ziva.  He prefers being the emotional mute and she's always accepted that she could get jettisoned by people she cares about and Eli jettisoned her.

I enjoyed it far more than I thought I would but I agree. I didn't like Ziva accusing Gibbs of having given up on her. I always thought that's what he did; when Tony told him that he was going to Paris (because of the photo Ziva left him) and Gibbs told him we have to believe what we have to believe, I took that to mean that he understood that Tony wasn't ready to accept that Ziva was dead but he didn't believe he was still alive. But if she left Gibbs clues, I never saw them (other than that her body hadn't been found). But if she was okay with Gibbs finding out she was still alive, she could have contacted him. It makes no sense that she wouldn't have. I also don't really know why they felt the need to include that in the story in the first place.

I think if they had done it differently, it would have been okay, but this didn't feel right.

On 10/1/2019 at 10:14 PM, stonehaven said:

Kasie was the high point. I still don't understand the whole Ziva worship...

I think it's more that she has a legendary status rather than worship but that seemed odd, too. She probably did have a reputation when she first came to NCIS and I'm sure there were whispers but I never got that "she's a legend" vibe. Maybe it happened after she died? Sometimes, the dead get glorified. Either way, I think it was a bit too much and too out of nowhere.

Likewise, I never got the "when Ziva does something you trust her" attitude while she was still working at NCIS. I was under the impression that that applied to everyone working on the team. If they did something, you trusted them. So, it made little sense that they were emphasizing it in such a way that it seemed to be something unique to Ziva.

I loved Jimmy throughout the episode and liked the comedic relief they provided in general.

I'm not quite sure I got why the white supremacist guys were working with the terrorist group. And the Navy guy seemed a rather obvious choice for the inside guy.

Oh, and bed bugs survive fires?

[SG11]

7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So did I. She didn't even have a visitor's pass or anything, so that was weird.

I don't know how believable Ziva was. I guess, she was to some extent, but I never took her fighting skills entirely seriously. With regards to her fighting/intelligence skilled, I viewed her more like I view James Bond, with a twinkle in the eye.

The training I was referring to was more her off the charts shooting ability and investigation skills although I also included her fighting to be believable to the extent that a Krav Maga practitioner (I assume she knew this, don’t know) should be able to hold her own in many cases, at least for awhile. I do agree that the idea that a 100 lb female is simply not going to be able to trade crushing blows from a 200-225 male with comparable skills for long. Those fights are eye roll material.

7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I loved Jimmy throughout the episode and liked the comedic relief they provided in general.

I cannot imagine anyone not wanting to beat Jimmy to a pulp with a wooden spoon every time he is on screen. But that’s just me.