S04.E01: Strangers

[Crs97]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

particularly young mothers who you might think would feel a first responsibility to their child. I'm out.

Fathers, too?

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I don't see it as a "no big deal". The United States is still full of puritanism so offering child care for teen parents is a good step in keeping the kids in school. At this point all the data we have points out to people who finish high school have a better chance to find jobs - and yes, things are more nuanced specially with the corporate greed. 

And all the data shows that babies who grow up in single parent homes are far more likely to live in poverty, drop out of school and end up in prison.  It's a fine line between helping out the pregnant/single mother and encouraging unmarried pregnancy.  At this point it's clear there's been lots of encouragement to the detriment of the resulting children. When I was in school we didn't need those special classes because only one girl got pregnant in our entire school.  Unwed births were at about 5% then and now they're approaching 50%.  We could use some of that puritanism, not to shame the girls or hide them, but  to stop praising them and  calling them heroes. Maybe something in between?

[ams1001]

Of course, we know Randall's gonna have all kinds of feelings when he finds out Deja's new friend is raising his daughter (especially if we find out something tragic happened to her mother, or that she abandoned her). Doing what his father couldn't do for him. Cue heartfelt cringy talk with new boyfriend. Cue William flashbacks.

Edited September 26, 2019 by ams1001
afterthought

[kili]

The song that Jack sang is called "Memorized" and it is currently 16th on the iTunes download chart. Congrats to Blake Stadnik! The song was co-written by Taylor Goldsmith who is Mandy Moore's husband (and lead singer of Dawes).  The other writer was Siddhartha Khosla.

[Kdawg82]

I agree with those saying Jack (Jr's) song on that huge stage sounded basic, annoying, not even "top 40 chart artist" good. I mean American Idol's Phillip Phillips is better and i don't even like him much. And WHY couldn't they have Jack on stage with an instrument.  Just standing there being basic was not impactful.

[Jax7917]

The less focus on Randall this season, the better. All of his story lines are different versions of the same thing. He gets overly hyper and excited about something, Beth gets mad, Randall doesn't care at first and keeps doing his heroic acts.. but then feels guilty by the end of the episode and tells Beth that he'll do what she wants when she wants and that she always comes first. I don't know if it's Randall or Beth that I can't stand more, though that Ballet story line last season did anything BUT make me feel sympathy for Beth. I find her to be entitled and always needs to be right or in control.

But Jack is starting to out-cringe the both of them. THOSE MONOLOGUES NEED TO GO. Holy moly, they all have monologues but his are constant. And I feel like he's always feeling sorry for himself every episode since the beginning. Luckily, he's nice to look at.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

32 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

And all the data shows that babies who grow up in single parent homes are far more likely to live in poverty, drop out of school and end up in prison.  It's a fine line between helping out the pregnant/single mother and encouraging unmarried pregnancy.  At this point it's clear there's been lots of encouragement to the detriment of the resulting children.

Childcare is one of the biggest roadblocks for teen moms staying in school. If both of her parents work, she doesn't have a free babysitter at home, so her choice is to find some kind of childcare (which she can't afford since she's a teenager) or drop out. I would much rather see a teen mother finish high school so that she has some education and a diploma rather than dropping out and knowing that her job prospects (and her chances of supporting herself and the baby) are slim to none. That's why programs that allow teen moms to stay in school are important. In the long run, it's in the best interest of both the mother and the baby that she finish school.

32 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Unwed births were at about 5% then and now they're approaching 50%. 

According to the Pew Institute, one in four parents living with a child in the United States today are unmarried.

Quote

In 1970 there were 26 births per 1,000 unmarried women ages 15 to 44, while that rate in 2016 stood at 42 births per 1,000 unmarried women.

Not everyone wants to get married. There are couples in long term committed relationships who are not married and have kids. I know people who have been together decades and chose not to get married. I'm glad that people don't feel as pressured to get married if they don't want to for whatever reason. I'm especially glad that pregnant teenagers aren't forced into shotgun weddings as often as they used to be. Just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you need to get married. Hell, just because you love each other doesn't mean you have to get married either. You can be in a loving committed relationship for the rest of your lives without that piece of paper. And just because you get married before the baby pops out doesn't mean that either of you are emotionally mature enough to get married.

No, teen pregnancy isn't ideal, but the solution is not to force kids to get married and/or drop out of school. If Malik didn't have such loving, supportive parents who are juggling their schedules to help him with the baby, how would he still be able to go to school? And even with those loving, supportive parents, he's still considering selling drugs because he's already thinking about how much this baby is going to need in the future. Just think how much more desperate he would be to earn quick money if his parents weren't as kind AND he had to drop out of school because he didn't have any childcare options.

Edited September 26, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[PRgal]

Randall probably lives in the jurisdiction he represents.  And that area might be mixed income.  It's a change for the girls (at least for Tess and Annie), but it might be something that Deja is used to.  As for Malik's family, I wonder if the baby's mom is from a troubled home (and in foster care).  Since Malik's family is stable, she was placed under her grandparents' care.  I also think they purposely cast a very young looking teen so we would be even MORE surprised when we find out he's the dad and not the older brother.  Because I, too, thought he was like 13.

I wonder if there'll be a storyline involving the babymama wanting the baby back and Randall getting involved with it somehow. 

[Evagirl]

On 9/24/2019 at 9:32 PM, deaja said:

I did not like how they opened it without revealing who any of these people were or why we should care. 

I'm with you on this.  It bothered me that I didn't have a clue as to who they were and what was going on.  I stopped watching after 10 minutes or so and went online to read a recap.  Once the recap explained who the characters were I felt a little better, but have not gone back to watch the rest of the show.  After reading the comments here (you guys don't know how much I appreciate PRIMETIMER!!), I'll go back and finish watching.

Someone said earlier that they didn't care for the young Jack and Rebecca plot line.  I don't especially like it either, however, if they ever totally eliminate Jack from appearing on the show, I will stop watching.  It was because of the character Jack that I fell in love with This Is Us.  Once he's gone, so am I.

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

Randall and Beth downsizing from Alpine and moving to Philly.  People from Philly last year were speculating where the family would move and what type of schools the girls would go to.  Deja being in the same running circles, both geographically and socioeconomically with teen dad and his crew seems VERY UN RANDALL. I'm not saying the girls should be bubble wrapped from everything Philly.  But it seemed that Deja was just coming in from walking distance from the BBQ.  

But she was with the daughter of the woman from community center, who he dragged her down there to meet that one day. And remember, he did all this politics stuff to help the people. And I'm sure she'd have no problems figuring out the bus/subway on her own. (Though I don't know where they actually live and I'm only familiar with a small stretch of the city around 30th Street Station to 36th Street where I used to work a million years ago.) Though I also wonder what kind of schools they'll go to. They went to public school before, but Alpine public school is gonna be worlds away from Philly public school.

8 hours ago, MBayGal said:

We could call them Blind Jack and Dead Jack

Sounds like pirates.

Edited September 26, 2019 by ams1001

[Forsaken]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Of course, we know Randall's gonna have all kinds of feelings when he finds out Deja's new friend is raising his daughter (especially if we find out something tragic happened to her mother, or that she abandoned her). Doing what his father couldn't do for him. Cue heartfelt cringy talk with new boyfriend. Cue William flashbacks.

Yep I am already cringing in anticipation! Randall to the rescue, wife rolling her eyes, father of teen kid wondering why the local politician is sticking his nose in. Major embarrassment for Randall when kid gets busted shipping drugs or whatever it is his shifty boss is up to, well, his boss looks shifty anyway. 

Ho hum....gonna be bad enough when Uncle Nicky tries to sort out military woman who is looking possibly like a long lost daughter or relative... 

[chitowngirl]

14 minutes ago, Forsaken said:

Ho hum....gonna be bad enough when Uncle Nicky tries to sort out military woman who is looking possibly like a long lost daughter or relative... 

Could she be the daughter of the guy in Vietnam that got killed in one of last season’s episodes? I believe they were playing football? 

I don’t see her as Kevin’s love interest with her being married and all...

 I could see her and Nicky bonding because of shared experiences. 

[Jax7917]

2 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Could she be the daughter of the guy in Vietnam that got killed in one of last season’s episodes? I believe they were playing football? 

I don’t see her as Kevin’s love interest with her being married and all...

 I could see her and Nicky bonding because of shared experiences. 

yeah I think she will end up being his daughter and therefore Kevin's cousin. 

[drafan]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

 Cue William flashbacks.

Please no.

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

 I mean American Idol's Phillip Phillips is better and i don't even like him much.

No one on the face of the earth is worse than Phillip Phillips. And that includes my neighbor's cat.

I couldn't follow the mother/soldier story AT ALL. What exactly was that about? And how could that foreign non-English-speaking woman understand the counting backwards sequence?

The "singing" in this this show must stop. Seriously.

Edited September 26, 2019 by drafan

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Of course, we know Randall's gonna have all kinds of feelings when he finds out Deja's new friend is raising his daughter (especially if we find out something tragic happened to her mother, or that she abandoned her). Doing what his father couldn't do for him. Cue heartfelt cringy talk with new boyfriend. Cue William flashbacks.

Yes, I think that coming to know Malik and his daughter will be the impetus for Randall to learn more about his mother Laurel. It seems that Laurel was estranged from her family (either mutually or not), though this was left to be inferred. I imagine that we'll flashback to the scene where William began to tell Randall about his mother -- and this time, not cut away. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Could she be the daughter of the guy in Vietnam that got killed in one of last season’s episodes? I believe they were playing football? 

I don’t see her as Kevin’s love interest with her being married and all...

 I could see her and Nicky bonding because of shared experiences. 

The character Jennifer Morrison is playing is about a decade too young to be that guys daughter.  

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, drafan said:

Please no.

No one on the face of the earth is worse than Phillip Phillips.

I couldn't follow the mother/soldier story AT ALL. What exactly was that about? And how could that foreign non-English-speaking woman understand the counting backwards sequence?

The "singing" in this this show must stop. Seriously.

The American Marine Cass had an intelligence role and was supposed to be ferreting out a bomb maker.  The Afghan woman was an informant who had a picture of the guy on her phone.  Cass offered her and her child expedited visas and water for the village if she ID'ed the guy.  The woman was reluctant because she feared what would happen.  Her fears came true with her village destroyed and several villagers killed when the US took out the bomb maker.  This devastated Cass because she did not anticipate the high collateral damage. 

[PRgal]

23 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The character Jennifer Morrison is playing is about a decade too young to be that guys daughter.  

Second this.  Cassidy is around the same age as the Big 3 (the actress is 40 this year, so I'll put her at anywhere between 35-42, especially as a mom of a child in elementary school.,  A child of someone who was KILLED in Vietnam would likely have kids in high school or college).  Nicky's daughter?  Maybe.  She definitely has some sort of Pearson connection. 

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Second this.  Cassidy is around the same age as the Big 3 (the actress is 40 this year, so I'll put her at anywhere between 35-42, especially as a mom of a child in elementary school.,  A child of someone who was KILLED in Vietnam would likely have kids in high school or college).  Nicky's daughter?  Maybe.  She definitely has some sort of Pearson connection. 

If she is Nicky's daughter, then we are probably going to find out she was also born in August 1980.  Nicky wasn't around, but her mother was Rebecca's roommate.  The question is, was she also conceived in a bathroom at a bar?  

[alexvillage]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

And all the data shows that babies who grow up in single parent homes are far more likely to live in poverty, drop out of school and end up in prison.  It's a fine line between helping out the pregnant/single mother and encouraging unmarried pregnancy.  At this point it's clear there's been lots of encouragement to the detriment of the resulting children. When I was in school we didn't need those special classes because only one girl got pregnant in our entire school.  Unwed births were at about 5% then and now they're approaching 50%.  We could use some of that puritanism, not to shame the girls or hide them, but  to stop praising them and  calling them heroes. Maybe something in between?

I don't know what those numbers are coming from (shotgun marriages are about patriarchy, not about teen sex) but if I understand you well, there is a bigger issue and that is, in the case of black youth and black people in general, what I see is the families being blamed for how they raise their kids, the kids being told to "pull their pants up", to "be responsible", then when they try to take responsibility for their lives, they are told they should just what? Put the kid up for adoption?

It is the catch 22. Not a heroic thing but if people tell them to "be responsible" and then they take responsibility for their acts, they yes, praise them. Anytime I see a kid who is forced or thrown in a situation where they need to do more than the ideal would be, I think it is a good thing and that self-determination should always be respected.

After pregnancy, if the girl/woman does not want to terminate it, they need to deal with it. And I believe having daycare available so it can get the load off their backs a little so they can finish their eduction - if they want to, and if they are lucky enough to have the support of the family, it is a good thing.

And the official numbers for teen pregnancy is that it is decreasing, in places with sex education at least. 

[saber5055]

There's a big difference in so many ways, at least in my mind, between a girl who has a baby at age 14 and an unmarried woman who has a baby at age 40.

Cassidy could be Nicky's daughter and might be why she kept staring at him after he broke the window. She could have been born after Nicky got back from Nam. We'll find out when she does her monologue on how her dad disappeared and her mom raised her alone, she only saw pics of her dad. And gosh, he sure looks like that guy who broke the window.

Anyone have any ideas why Nicky broke the window to begin with? He hated the support group? He got there late and the door was locked?

Edited September 26, 2019 by saber5055

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Not everyone wants to get married. There are couples in long term committed relationships who are not married and have kids. I know people who have been together decades and chose not to get married. I'm glad that people don't feel as pressured to get married if they don't want to for whatever reason. I'm especially glad that pregnant teenagers aren't forced into shotgun weddings as often as they used to be. Just because you're pregnant doesn't mean you need to get married. Hell, just because you love each other doesn't mean you have to get married either. You can be in a loving committed relationship for the rest of your lives without that piece of paper. And just because you get married before the baby pops out doesn't mean that either of you are emotionally mature enough to get married.

Raising a baby together has a long history of causing people to grow up real fast. I've heard lots of people (mothers and fathers) talk about the epiphany they had the first night home alone with the baby. I'm not for forcing people who dislike each other to marry, but I'm not in favor of waiting until all conditions and levels of maturity are perfect either. 

 In the United States and in the UK, couples who live together are at much greater risk of falling apart  than married couples. Taking that leap of faith and making a public commitment to each other can keep a couple together much longer.  Living together and enjoying a carefree life of freedom is all well and good until a baby is coming, at which point I think it's time to put that new life first and make a decision to grow-up, not just wait for maturity to magically happen.  Claiming that you're "not mature enough" is just another excuse to stay that way.

---------------------

@Alexvillage When I talk about taking responsibility, first and foremost I'm talking about using birth control if you're not ready to raise children.  Believe me when I talk about the soaring number of unmarried births I'm not thinking of anyone in the African American community or teenagers in particular.

I'm thinking of all the young white people I know who have kids and then their live in boyfriend leaves and they move back in with their parents or grandparents, just when my generation was expecting to finally buy some nice furniture and take a few vacations.  Our average age for marriage was 20 (like me) and somehow when the baby came we didn't ask if we were ready, we made ourselves ready and we raised our children without  too much leaning on our parents.  Sometimes we had to cut our education short and get GED's or return to college later.  Sometimes we weren't head over heels in love.  Still we  made marriages that grew along with the challenges, put our kids ahead of our dreams, and ended up lasting till death parted us. Even if our marriages ended up in divorce, the child had several stable years and both parents were firmly bonded with the child.

I guess that's why this new veteran character irritates me so much.  I don't know her whole story but she reminds me of lots of people I know who joined the Reserves, enjoyed the pay while keeping their regular jobs and just playing weekend-warrior at the local camp.  Next  they have children and enjoy the pay and all the medical benefits for the whole family and one day when they get called to actually serve overseas, they're all like "What now?  I never expected this  to happen!"

[topanga]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:14 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Well, that was...something. I guess.

No words can express how little I care about Jack & Rebecca: The Early Years. I get that Milo V needs a paycheck, but is their story really necessary, 4 seasons in? We know how they met. We know their story, and how it ended. Let's move on, for the love of god. And that cringy Jack monologue over dinner...some things never change.

I called who the blind guy was the second he started picking up the broken plate pieces. I doubt that can be considered a twist. Well, at least someone in this extended family has a successful singing career.

On 9/24/2019 at 10:24 PM, Dejana said:

Flashfowards to the future beyond the current day are just too distracting to me, even without throwing music into the equation. Maybe by 2049 or whenever Jack Jr's performance is happening, that'll be a throwback sound? Where are his parents?

Amen to both of you.  What more can I learn about Jack and Rebecca? Correction, what more can I feel about the two of them becoming a couple? The answer is very little because I already know exactly what happens. It's like the writers are rehashing the same story over and over with slightly different scenarios. They're were madly in love. We get it. They did couple-y things early on in their relationship, even when they weren't really a couple. We get it. 

And flashforwards take away any suspense or dramatic tension for me. Why do I care what conflicts a character is having about a situation if you show me in the next scene exactly how that conflict will end up in a few (or several years).

I can't say I won't watch--I'm addicted to this crazy show. But the season premiere didn't impress me much. 

[Jax7917]

46 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

There's a big difference in so many ways, at least in my mind, between a girl who has a baby at age 14 and an unmarried woman who has a baby at age 40.

Cassidy could be Nicky's daughter and might be why she kept staring at him after he broke the window. She could have been born after Nicky got back from Nam. We'll find out when she does her monologue on how her dad disappeared and her mom raised her alone, she only saw pics of her dad. And gosh, he sure looks like that guy who broke the window.

Anyone have any ideas why Nicky broke the window to begin with? He hated the support group? He got there late and the door was locked?

I really LOL'ed when you said "when she does her monologue" because we all know that truly is inevitable. 

[Chewy101]

23 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Thanks, show, for telling more people how to wear clothes and then return them so they can be sold to unsuspecting people who actually PAY for them.

I think Manuel would have bought the coat for him if he could have. It seemed to be a "thank you for your service" moment, which I cheer on every time.

[Chewy101]

55 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Anyone have any ideas why Nicky broke the window to begin with? He hated the support group? He got there late and the door was locked?

I figured it was because it was a support group at the Veteran Affairs, and Nicky has a major chip on his shoulder about acknowledging what he went through there. That, and the writers needed to shoe-horn Cassidy in somehow.

It never occured to me that Cassidy might be related to Nicky. I just figured she is a mini version of Jack, so Kevin will go nuts for her. 

[Chewy101]

47 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I guess that's why this new veteran character irritates me so much.  I don't know her whole story but she reminds me of lots of people I know who joined the Reserves, enjoyed the pay while keeping their regular jobs and just playing weekend-warrior at the local camp.  Next  they have children and enjoy the pay and all the medical benefits for the whole family and one day when they get called to actually serve overseas, they're all like "What now?  I never expected this  to happen!"

Did it ever say she was just in the Reserves? Wasn't she a Colonel? And I kind of doubt she would have the authority she did if she wasn't a career officer. Otherwise, she would have come right back to a job, but she had no idea where to look for one. Dunno...

[Mrs Shibbles]

One thing that crossed my mind before the reveal at the end was that Grown Baby Jack Junior and Cassidy were Nicky's children, that he either knew about or didn't know about. 

Funny thing about the "Junior" terminology- I share the same first and last name as my mother in-law, and my family refers to us as "Mrs. Shibbles" Junior and "Mrs. Shibbles" Senior if there is a need to distinguish who they are referring to. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

All good reasons not to use the military as a college fund -- or at least hold off on having children.

Sure, and we don't know how much time she might have owed to the military, but Jennifer Morrison is 40-kind of late to wait to try to have your first kid based on a decision you might have made to join the military at 18.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

With regard to in-school childcare: unless birth control is made widely available, teen girls will continue to get pregnant. The choices will come down to abortion, adoption, or teens raising their babies.  Many families choose not to give up their kids for adoption, so the choices are abortion, teens dropping out of school to care for their kids, or in-school childcare.  An educated teen parent is a lot better than an uneducated one. The kids are not going to stop having sex. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

One thing that crossed my mind before the reveal at the end was that Grown Baby Jack Junior and Cassidy were Nicky's children, that he either knew about or didn't know about. 

Funny thing about the "Junior" terminology- I share the same first and last name as my mother in-law, and my family refers to us as "Mrs. Shibbles" Junior and "Mrs. Shibbles" Senior if there is a need to distinguish who they are referring to. 

Hadn't thought of that possibility...I do feel like possibly her staring at him after she set the chair down is going to mean something (more than just "what the hell, dude?").

My mom and I are Big A- and Little A- (never mind that I can stand next to her and look straight over the top of her head, and I am not especially tall).

[Chewy101]

14 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

.I do feel like possibly her staring at him after she set the chair down is going to mean something (more than just "what the hell, dude?").

Isn't that just Jennifer Morrison's normal go-to acting move? Cameron looking at House, Emma looking at the Queen... 

I love all of these different ideas. All I thought was her thinking "that could have been me."

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

I love all of these different ideas. All I thought was her thinking "that could have been me."

Ah...Nicky as wake-up-call. "I better get my act together or I'll be throwing chairs through VA support group windows with a bottle of whisky in my hand some day." Maybe.

[Blakeston]

56 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Being of a certain age, I'm kind of thrilled that some of ya'll can dismiss a woman soldier's PTSD as cliche or stereotypical. Things have changed, and the casual dismissal of it being something new is a sign of progress (in some ways). Though having grown up in the military, I don't find PTSD stories cliched - for men or women.

There was a very similar storyline on the show Army Wives, in which a female service member (who was married to Sterling K. Brown, as it happens) came back from the war and withdrew from the world and started drinking heavily, and snapped over little things, and then finally broke down and admitted she had a problem and started going to meetings.

I've seen so many of these PTSD storylines that once we saw Jennifer Morrison's character bargaining with the local woman, I knew that:

a) Innocent people in that village would be collateral damage of a bombing,

b) She would come home and start boozing it up, 

c) Some innocuous little detail of modern American life would trigger her memories of the war, and

d) Her kid would startle her and she'd smack him.

I know that PTSD is a huge problem, and I'm glad that awareness of it is being raised, but an unfortunate side effect is that people now think that all veterans have it, and they're all ticking time bombs.

I work in fair housing, and I keep hearing from veterans that they make a point not to mention that they served in the military when they're looking for apartments, because leasing agents are flat-out afraid to rent to veterans. They're convinced they'll shoot the place up during a PTSD episode.

[Mrs Shibbles]

14 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Somebody totally switched his puppy a the dog park one day and he didn't notice.  Blind superstar problems.

You are so bad! I laughed way too much at this! 🤣

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

With regard to in-school childcare: unless birth control is made widely available, teen girls will continue to get pregnant.

I'm continually amazed that schools, and shopping areas everywhere, don't have clinics where anyone could get free birth control anytime.   It would save the government so much money in the long run, plus the need for abortions might go so low as to almost quit being an issue.

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Of course, we know Randall's gonna have all kinds of feelings when he finds out Deja's new friend is raising his daughter (especially if we find out something tragic happened to her mother, or that she abandoned her). Doing what his father couldn't do for him. Cue heartfelt cringy talk with new boyfriend. Cue William flashbacks.

Yup!! Although this boy is much younger than William was (he’s clearly a teen and William was a full fledged adult), he seems to have loving supportive (financially and physically as well as emotionally) parents, and isn’t an addict. Randall may logically know this but “feelings”. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm continually amazed that schools, and shopping areas everywhere, don't have clinics where anyone could get free birth control anytime.   It would save the government so much money in the long run, plus the need for abortions might go so low as to almost quit being an issue.

Yes, we seem to have gone backward in that regard, but I don't want to get political about it.

Edited September 26, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[alexvillage]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Raising a baby together has a long history of causing people to grow up real fast. I've heard lots of people (mothers and fathers) talk about the epiphany they had the first night home alone with the baby. I'm not for forcing people who dislike each other to marry, but I'm not in favor of waiting until all conditions and levels of maturity are perfect either. 

It sounds like religious talk to me. "Epiphany", as if all of a sudden the simple fact of being married makes things more clear and easier. Marriage is a piece of paper that comes with legal rights and obligations, it is simply that. 

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

In the United States and in the UK, couples who live together are at much greater risk of falling apart  than married couples. Taking that leap of faith and making a public commitment to each other can keep a couple together much longer.  Living together and enjoying a carefree life of freedom is all well and good until a baby is coming, at which point I think it's time to put that new life first and make a decision to grow-up, not just wait for maturity to magically happen.  Claiming that you're "not mature enough" is just another excuse to stay that way.

I need a citation for that please.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

When I talk about taking responsibility, first and foremost I'm talking about using birth control if you're not ready to raise children. 

Birth control and protection, yes. No teenager is ready to raise a kid. Teen pregnancy is not planned - or at least the majority of cases - and when it happens and the teenage girls wants to keep the child, then whatever supports she can get are valuable. Being "outraged" about how people deal with it is pointless and judgmental. Some people don't have choices.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Still we  made marriages that grew along with the challenges, put our kids ahead of our dreams, and ended up lasting till death parted us. Even if our marriages ended up in divorce, the child had several stable years and both parents were firmly bonded with the child.

Well, congratulations to you. But you seem to be demanding that everyone else follow in your footsteps and that's kind of arrogant.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I guess that's why this new veteran character irritates me so much.  I don't know her whole story but she reminds me of lots of people I know who joined the Reserves, enjoyed the pay while keeping their regular jobs and just playing weekend-warrior at the local camp.  Next  they have children and enjoy the pay and all the medical benefits for the whole family and one day when they get called to actually serve overseas, they're all like "What now?  I never expected this  to happen!"

The character was in the war zone. I don't know what you watched or why you are generalizing. I am someone who believes that nobody should join the armed forces until we (our government) stop bombing countries and interfering with their domestic issues. But that's not how things work. If they are called, they might not want to go but they know it was a possibility and they go.

[Drumpf1737]

@JudyObscure said

Quote

And all the data shows that babies who grow up in single parent homes are far more likely to live in poverty, drop out of school and end up in prison.  It's a fine line between helping out the pregnant/single mother and encouraging unmarried pregnancy.  At this point it's clear there's been lots of encouragement to the detriment of the resulting children.

Tell this bullshit to Barack Obama, Kate Beckinsale, Angelina Jolie, Jay-Z, and Lebron James. 

It depends on the parent like everything else. 

Jack II's song was generic af but the point was to demonstrate he's famous/successful. I guess the showrunners didn't want to license something for a short scene.

The only newbie that didn't really fit for me was the soldier. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Drumpf1737

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

There was a very similar storyline on the show Army Wives, in which a female service member (who was married to Sterling K. Brown, as it happens) came back from the war and withdrew from the world and started drinking heavily, and snapped over little things, and then finally broke down and admitted she had a problem and started going to meetings.

I've seen so many of these PTSD storylines that once we saw Jennifer Morrison's character bargaining with the local woman, I knew that:

a) Innocent people in that village would be collateral damage of a bombing,

b) She would come home and start boozing it up, 

c) Some innocuous little detail of modern American life would trigger her memories of the war, and

d) Her kid would startle her and she'd smack him.

I know that PTSD is a huge problem, and I'm glad that awareness of it is being raised, but an unfortunate side effect is that people now think that all veterans have it, and they're all ticking time bombs.

I work in fair housing, and I keep hearing from veterans that they make a point not to mention that they served in the military when they're looking for apartments, because leasing agents are flat-out afraid to rent to veterans. They're convinced they'll shoot the place up during a PTSD episode.

Fair point. Being a military brat (from the Vietnam era) I know this isn't true, so it doesn't occur to me that it's a default belief.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm continually amazed that schools, and shopping areas everywhere, don't have clinics where anyone could get free birth control anytime.   It would save the government so much money in the long run, plus the need for abortions might go so low as to almost quit being an issue.

Planned Parenthood did the trick for me in the 70's, and they're still alive and kicking. Where I live, the law is that you can get a year's supply of birth control pills all at once (at least in the free clinics - if you have health insurance they'll still curtail you to their usual approved supply).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

7 hours ago, Evagirl said:

On 9/24/2019 at 10:32 PM, deaja said:

I did not like how they opened it without revealing who any of these people were or why we should care. 

I'm with you on this.  It bothered me that I didn't have a clue as to who they were and what was going on.  I stopped watching after 10 minutes or so and went online to read a recap.  Once the recap explained who the characters were I felt a little better, but have not gone back to watch the rest of the show.  After reading the comments here (you guys don't know how much I appreciate PRIMETIMER!!), I'll go back and finish watching.

But hasn't that been the conceit of the show since the first episode?  We had no idea who all those people were, what time period they were in, or how they were related to each other. There were other big surprises along the way, too.  I feel that that's the show I signed on for, not a more conventional show that explains everything upfront.

40 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Planned Parenthood did the trick for me in the 70's, and they're still alive and kicking. Where I live, the law is that you can get a year's supply of birth control pills all at once (at least in the free clinics - if you have health insurance they'll still curtail you to their usual approved supply).

There are often protesters outside Planned Parenthood-they don't discriminate between those going in for birth control, abortions, pap smears, or delivery of fetuses that have died in utero.  It takes a strong teen to ignore the intimidation.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

17 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

One thing I wondered from the end of last year that no one has brought up.

Randall and Beth downsizing from Alpine and moving to Philly.  People from Philly last year were speculating where the family would move and what type of schools the girls would go to.  Deja being in the same running circles, both geographically and socioeconomically with teen dad and his crew seems VERY UN RANDALL. I'm not saying the girls should be bubble wrapped from everything Philly.  But it seemed that Deja was just coming in from walking distance from the BBQ.  

Malik was talking about AP classes, and his friends on the playground were discussing how 20 minutes of homeroom is a waste of school time (that could presumably be devoted to learning). Malik's crowd seems to be a studious one. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, drafan said:

I couldn't follow the mother/soldier story AT ALL. What exactly was that about? And how could that foreign non-English-speaking woman understand the counting backwards sequence?

The Afghani mother worked in a village clinic-I don't recall if she had medical training.  Lots of people know English numbers-they've probably seen US television shows, etc.  Cassidy (the Marine) was in Intelligence and she had promised the Afghani mother asylum in the US for her and her child if she revealed a picture of a known terrorist, which she finally did on her phone.  The military subsequently ID'd the terrorist in the village, and in blowing him up, blew up the clinic and most of the village.  The Mother and child survived, and other survivors received $1200 for the dead family members that were collateral damage.

[PRgal]

I wonder if having Kevin Pearson as an uncle helped Jack D get his big gig...I don't know if Kevin quits acting eventually or not, but even if he does, he'll ALWAYS be the Manny. 🙂

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I think Manuel would have bought the coat for him if he could have. It seemed to be a "thank you for your service" moment, which I cheer on every time.

I thought he was going to offer Jack his employee discount!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Tell this bullshit to Barack Obama, Kate Beckinsale, Angelina Jolie, Jay-Z, and Lebron James. 

It depends on the parent like everything else. 

FYI - I am not the person who originally posted what you quoted! But I agree - being a single parent doesn’t automatically doom your kid to a life of crime and poverty. 

[Josiemae]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm continually amazed that schools, and shopping areas everywhere, don't have clinics where anyone could get free birth control anytime.   It would save the government so much money in the long run, plus the need for abortions might go so low as to almost quit being an issue.

If men could get pregnant, you could buy birth control pills from vending machines, convenience stores, and online.

[Drumpf1737]

20 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FYI - I am not the person who originally posted what you quoted! But I agree - being a single parent doesn’t automatically doom your kid to a life of crime and poverty. 

Apologies EB.  For some reason the system applies the quote to where I copied it from not the original author. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Drumpf1737
weird autocorrect

[Crs97]

31 minutes ago, Josiemae said:

If men could get pregnant, you could buy birth control pills from vending machines, convenience stores, and online.

It would probably be free.  Insurance at least would cover it all.