S03.E05: Say Bye-Bye Daddy

[Guest]

Airs September 1, 2019

Quote

Tyra and Alex experience parenthood for the first time; Chloe isn't sure she can stay with Max; Anthony questions the paternity of Rilah's baby; a dinner with McKayla and Caelan's families goes left.

[JAndy]

Chloe’s friend has more sense than her about Max. 

[Chris Knight]

Chloe is lucky she has her friend. Her one friend. 

Is it possible to do a paternity test before the baby is born  ? Because Anthony's mom's bf, who talks a mile a minute, is trying to get Anthony to wake up. Anthony has his whole life ahead of him  - he shouldn't throw it all away for someone else's child. Can you imagine raising someone else 's child thinking it was yours ? 

Did Max and his dad recently move ? There is no furniture in their house. Is the dad married  ?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Chris Knight

[Honey]

I cannot stand Grandpa Tim.  I hate that man.

[ghoulina]

Rilah and Anthony are boring. Get a paternity test or shut the hell up. 

I'm not really sure why Tyra is trying to pump SO early. She hasn't even left the hospital yet. Better to establish your supply first. That being said, her mom is so annoying and I'd be kicking her out too. 

Chloe's friend Maddie is a wise one. Listen to her, Chloe! 

Max doesn't think Xanax is a drug. I have no words. I truly hope he gets the help he needs. For his daughter's sake. It certainly doesn't help when he's taking steps in the right direction and Chloe asks, "Do you really think you need that?"

Caelen is damned no matter what he does. I would HATE coming to that house to see my kids. He gets nagged the minute he walks in the door. But if he doesn't come, he's a deadbeat. Can he not just take the kids to his house? 

It's funny that McKayla's family thinks that dinner was some set up. All that princess did was play on her phone while her relatives bashed her baby daddy. She's got everyone right where she wants them and they're too spaced out/drugged out/cirrhosised out to get it. 

[Chris Knight]

4 minutes ago, Honey said:

I cannot stand Grandpa Tim.  I hate that man.

I cant stand Cindy. And Princess McKalya, who literally pays for NOTHING,  gets up and walks out so she can go home and "relax ". And Shannon is the Queen of Trash.

[Real4real]

I think I am giving up on this show.  It’s just infuriating to watch these dimwits, so smug about their great choices making one boneheaded decision after another.  McKayla, your guy has a JOB and is busting his butt to put a roof over your lazy-ass head and all you can do is whine that he is not there to wait on you every moment of the day?  He is WORKING—it’s called REAL LIFE.  And WTF with Chloe not supporting the supremely dead-eyed Max getting ALL THE COUNSELING IN THE WORLD!?  I can’t even get interested enough to remember the rest—they are just a mass of stupidity.  I feel so hopeless for the babies being born to these immature and thoughtless kids—they won’t even have a chance...so sad.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Real4real

[Claire76]

At this point, Caelan (sp?) needs to get the court involved to establish child support and visitation.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Claire76
Spelling kids' names these days...

[Ijustwantsomechips]

McKayla and her entire family is trash.  I never heard one of them lay any blame on the princess.  And while I’ve never been a Caelan fan, he’s certainly got her number. Grandma Cindy asked for Tim “or someone” to watch Timmy so she and Caelan could talk even though McKayla was sitting right there on her fat, useless ass.  Caelan’s right. She can’t handle another kid.  

I think Anthony needs to order a paternity test if he has doubts, but hd probably shouldn’t take parenting advice from someone with children with multiple women.   

Tara is an idiot, but the baby is adorable.

[Nilo]

He really does, Claire.  I don’t know if it’s due to his age or general Caelan-ness, but he seems to be under the assumption that Mikayla gets to make all the decisions about the status of their relationship and their children unilaterally.  

If she says they’re together, they are.  If she says they’re broken up, they are.  And until now, “break up” has always meant “take a break.”  But he also gets to say, “I don’t want this” - maybe not to their children, but definitely to her.

But I think everyone would be happier if there was a set schedule - both in terms of child support as well as visitation.  Although I can imagine Mikayla kicking up a fuss about him ‘taking’ HER babies anywhere.

I realize getting any kind of lawyer is expensive, but I’m assuming he wouldn’t be asking for custody.  

And honestly?  The way everyone was yelling at him for not being there for the non-birth when they were broken up?  They are not communicating well right now and are not making each other happy.  Why would he be there?  I left my husband during my pregnancy and the last place I would have wanted him to be would be in the delivery room.  It’s possible he might have wanted to be there to witness the miracle of life - but it’s painful and scary and a time when you’re fairly vulnerable.  If she genuinely depends on him to that extent and wants him there, that’s weird as hell.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

McKayla and her entire family is trash.

True fact that is. And while McKayla seems to be avoiding the hereditary meth face for now, that shit is gonna catch up with her real quick. Probably around the time she has her fifth or sixth kid with more random baby daddies. 

1 hour ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Caelan’s right. She can’t handle another kid.

He should have thought about that before he impregnated her a second time. Much as I like Caelan, he made the decision to have more unprotected sex with a girl he could barely stand who was a shitty enough mother to the kid they already didn't want. 

Had to laugh about Chloe and Max talking about "breaking up" their family. Girl, what family do you have with that creep? You have a child together--that's it. That's not a "family." And what's with Max's permanent lip herpes? God, it's the only thing I can focus on when he's on screen. 

[Jeanne222]

14 hours ago, Honey said:

I cannot stand Grandpa Tim.  I hate that man.

That family lives in the state of denial!

[lovesnark]

Caelen and Shelley really need to run at warp speed to a good family law attorney. Grandpa Tim saying they (Caelen and Shelley) shouldn't be around Timmy and the new baby until they seek psychiatric help was all kinds of fucked up. I guess if you're not willing to wait on Princess McKayla hand and foot and ensure the spoiled brat that she'll never, ever be alone means you're suffering from some sort of mental illness. Alrighty then. I don't blame Caelen one teeny, tiny bit for not wanting to visit Timmy at the grandparent's house. The minute he walks in the door it's open season and he's not allowed to defend himself. Fuck that shit.

I felt bad for Alex. Even though his grandma raised him, he still hoped his 'parents' would want to meet his beautiful baby daughter. I hope he defies the odds and will be a good dad. I also felt empathy for Tyra. When our daughter was born, I was inundated with people showing up. My father in law was the worst and showed up unannounced with a different random person from his church every day for the first 10 days. He constantly told me what he thought I should be doing and how I was doing everything wrong. After a week of sleep deprivation and being fed up, I lost it and chased him out of my house. He had the balls to tell my husband that he thought I needed mental help because I was irrational. My husband told him not to come back unless he was invited and to leave the rando church people where he found them😂 I hope Tyra and Alex get to have some quiet, private time.

[ghoulina]

7 hours ago, Claire76 said:

At this point, Caelan (sp?) needs to get the court involved to establish child support and visitation.

He really does. They've got two kids now. Quit waiting for her to mature because it ain't gonna happen. Just get that shit locked down, so you don't have to play her games any more.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Tyra: Look! He’s holding the baby. I knew he’d be a good father.

I’ll go out on a limb and guess that Tyra’s father (whoever that might be) set a very low bar.

Chloe, dear, even from this distance I can tell that Max is always drugged. Like in every scene. Stop the denial. He is NOT okay and you shouldn’t allow your daughter to be around him unless he has a drug test before each visit (which I believe Jennifer Garner makes Ben Affleck do).

Another one who is constantly loaded is Tyra's mother. That woman can barely keep her eyes open.

Anthony’s mother’s latest squeeze giving Anthony paternity tips? Priceless.

[Quilty]

So Mckayla's only contribution to the relationship is to giveCaelan beautiful children? That's the answer he got when he asked grandma what mckayla has done to help him? And when it comes to someone watching Timmy for a bit it mckayla wasn't on the list. It was grandpa. As soon as she found out she would actually have to spend time with her son it was suddenly bedtime. 

[Pepper Mostly]

17 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Max doesn't think Xanax is a drug. I have no words. I truly hope he gets the help he needs. For his daughter's sake. It certainly doesn't help when he's taking steps in the right direction and Chloe asks, "Do you really think you need that?"

Caelen is damned no matter what he does. I would HATE coming to that house to see my kids. He gets nagged the minute he walks in the door. But if he doesn't come, he's a deadbeat. Can he not just take the kids to his house? 

It's funny that McKayla's family thinks that dinner was some set up. All that princess did was play on her phone while her relatives bashed her baby daddy. She's got everyone right where she wants them and they're too spaced out/drugged out/cirrhosised out to get it. 

I was yelling at the TV so much during that little love fest I had to rewind to catch all the inanities McKayla's family were spewing. The whole tribe are poster children for dysfunction. Grandpa Tim is just a rage ball, Cindy's a spineless enabler, Shannon a gleeful pot stirrer. McKayla can do no wrong! She's lonely! She's given you a beautiful son! If you don't dance attendance on her and cater to her every whim 24 hours a day you are a no good terrible very bad person. Caelen cannot win. I wouldn't want to go to Tim and Cindy's either. I was happy to see that he stated his side without losing his temper. Any normal human would have at least given him a hearing. But McKayla's family won't see that their little angel is a manipulative, spoiled, self centered little bitch. Get a lawyer Caelen. Its your only hope. She'll use those kids as a club to beat you with for the next 20 years. 

Chloe occasionally shows a glimmer of sense. Then she says dumb shit like "you don't need therapy". Oy. Another pair of dumb kids who think that playing house is real life. Max is a druggie and a petty criminal. Aim high, Chloe. 

I felt bad for poor little Tyra when she was trying to pump. Leave the girl alone already! Sheesh. Doesn't the hospital have access to a lactation consultant? Her methy relatives were no damn help. 

[jacksgirl]

Saving this sh**fest for the next weekend. It's my reward for surviving the work week

 Love to read what's going on first though. I was so rooting for routing for Makayla last season but boy has she shown her true colors. She's a spoiled manipulative little snot who is so flipping lazy it's not even funny. Her grandparents and Shannon are to blame 100%. Time to kick her to the curb but they won't.

[b2H]

Makayla will never survive on her own.  She hasn’t learned not to bite the hand that feeds her.  Her grandparents won’t be around forever.  Shannon may or not be able to support herself and three children (counting her own daughters).  Caelan May be fortunate enough to get out from under the family he almost married into and have a happy life.  He certainly deserves it.

[gonecrackers]

Way to go there Chloe, discouraging her addicted, criminal baby daddy from getting counseling for his issues - she became the toxic one tonight. 

And such a know-it-all smugness about her - apparently she knows Max better than everyone & tells her gf he won’t have any problems when they live together. Oh, & he doesn’t need counseling...  she was just a wealth of teenage stupidity. 🙄

[kitkat343]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:31 PM, Chris Knight said:

Chloe is lucky she has her friend. Her one friend. 

Is it possible to do a paternity test before the baby is born  ? Because Anthony's mom's bf, who talks a mile a minute, is trying to get Anthony to wake up. Anthony has his whole life ahead of him  - he shouldn't throw it all away for someone else's child. Can you imagine raising someone else 's child thinking it was yours ? 

Did Max and his dad recently move ? There is no furniture in their house. Is the dad married  ?

It is actually possible to take a paternity test in utero.  They can now draw blood from the mother, and the potential baby daddy and use the same technology that can screen for down's syndrome with a simple blood test to determine paternity.  Normally, its extremely insulting to ask your pregnant girlfriend for such a test, but given the fact that they were broken up and she was with another guy, I'm not sure I understand why this isn't an option.  Lets hope the guy smartens up once the kid is here (although I'm guessing he'll reserve judgement based upon what color the kid is, without considering the fact that she might have slept with another man of color.)

Calaen needs to run to the courthouse and get a visitation schedule established so he can get his children away from Mackayla's terrible family as much as possible.  It's pretty awful to see Timmy telling someone else how to be a father when he's raised Shannon and McKayla, two of the most useless human beings to have ever walked the face of the earth.

Edited September 3, 2019 by kitkat343

[Claire76]

Somebody mentioned, in an other thread: If you don't raise your children, you'll be raising your grandchildren. This should be amended for such shitty behaviour, you end up (not) raising your great-grandchildren, too.
Cindy can lose me with, "Shannon's turned her life around." I don't see what she's done that's so amazing. 
If Mckayla wasn't so lazy, I'd suggest Caelan get a DNA test on BOTH kids. Of course, it would be his own fault if Mckayla had been sleeping with someone else. 🙄

Spoiler

It would appear, in real time, Caelan has only threatened to get a lawyer. Just. Do. It. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Giant Misfit
added spoiler tags

[gonecrackers]

I'm guessing Caelen doesn't want a custody agreement because he wants the freedom to pop in & out to see his kids whenever he's not working or with his buds. Shelly is probably working & can't take them regularly either, & seems to be trying to keep more of a grandparent place in their lives. I liked her telling it like it is - "this girl is broken" - a very good & sensitive observation for someone who causes them so much trouble. However, as a poster mentioned above, her son had a huge role to play is creating children with that "broken" little girl. They were already having a ton of issues with McKayla yet he went ahead sans condom & now comes baby #2 when they can't even handle baby #1.

At this point if he really wants a place in his children's lives he needs to get the custody arrangement figured out, legally, according to his schedule, & become more than a paycheck to the lives he's helped create. He needs to be a father, not just a visitor who drops by for a few minutes & get verbally berated for not spending time with the kids. Caelen needs to stop whining & take some control- get the lawyer, get the shared custody agreement & schedule set, & then be a responsible grown up father. Oh, & stop making babies with a girl who can't even take care of herself.

[Claire76]

Oh, Caelan is absolutely culpable, but he needs to get off his arse and do what he needs to do to mitigate the circumstances. 

[CloseThisAccount]

10 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

 Normally, its extremely insulting to ask your pregnant girlfriend for such a test, but given the fact that they were broken up and she was with another guy, I'm not sure I understand why this isn't an option.  

Nah, he's got the foolproof ultrasound test: If the baby has elvish ears in the ultrasound it's a 100% match. Then when the baby is 18 they must set out to protect the one true ring. It's science!

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/1/2019 at 10:05 PM, Real4real said:

I can’t even get interested enough to remember the rest—they are just a mass of stupidity.  I feel so hopeless for the babies being born to these immature and thoughtless kids—they won’t even have a chance...so sad.

And I don't think this batch of babies is the first generation to not have a chance in some of these families.  Chloe?  I think she did have a chance, and blew it, but still might recover if the planets align correctly. 

But the others?  I can't keep them straight, but all of the kids on this show seem like they aren't smart, as in low intelligence.  The one with the elf ears?  Either that kid is just dumb, or he has a very unfortunate affect because he sure comes across as dumb.  And not just because he's going to use an ultrasound image to determine paternity. 

The others are no better, and I actually feel sorry for people who are too stupid to make decent decisions, and it troubles me to witness it.

So it's incredibly sad, but there's one ray of sunshine in the whole thing--I'm a terrible person and I'm actually enjoying watching Tim the rage ball act out.  I don't think Caelan is the hard-working good guy that some people see him as (e.g., if he comes home exhausted from work because he was up until 4:00 the night before playing video games, then I think McKayla has a reason to complain), but I never liked Tim, even when he was sympathetically seen as a grandpa just trying to do the best for his grandkids by taking them in.  He has obviously spoiled McKayla and probably set her on a path to having a miserable life, and I think he did it because he felt guilty.  And I see the same thing happening with Timmy.  He says how much he loves that kid, but I don't think he understands that the best love you can show a kid is to do what it takes to turn him into a well-functioning adult.  So I'm afraid Timmy is going to turn out just like McKayla, and it will be Tim's (and Cindy's) fault.

.

On 9/1/2019 at 9:06 PM, ghoulina said:

Max doesn't think Xanax is a drug. I have no words.

Not surprisingly, I wasn't able to follow his reasoning.  I believe he made a distinction between drugs and pills, but then I swear he was challenging the claim that he "uses drugs" because it was only one type.  He doesn't really seem like the type to be a grammar pedant, but still waters can run deep, I guess.

[LibertarianSlut]

I always feel like the armchair detective when it comes to Anthony (of Rilah and Anthony).  When Anthony was playing basketball with his mom's boyfriend, the boyfriend said that Anthony had a whole other year of school ahead of himself, which tells me that he definitely got left back at least a grade.  Also, Anthony said that his family moved a half hour away, which caused his split with Rilah in the first place.  Now the storyline is that Rilah's mom moved Rilah an hour away...is it an hour away from where Anthony and Rilah started their relationship?  Or an hour from where Anthony lives now?  Because if Anthony moved, say, a half hour south, and Rilah's mom moved her a half hour north, I don't see how one move was worse than the other.  Again, as I stated on a different epsode's thread, if the dude had a car at 18 years old, this would practically be a moot point.

Also, what kind of stupid, sick asshole wants his daughter to have "elf ears" instead of taking a paternity test?  If Anthony's daughter has "elf ears," she's either going to have to undergo painful, expensive surgery to get them pinned back, or she's going to be the object of teasing and she going to be significantly less attractive when it comes to finding a mate of her own, but at least Anthony won't have to take a blood test!

--------------------------------------------------------

McKayla v. Caelan

Verdict:  Both guilty

I will never call McKayla "Princess McKayla."  Ever.  "Princess" suggests something regal to me.  It does not cause me to conjure a shitty split-level house in Salem, Ohio with some dumb air headed, cross-eyed bitch lazing on a ratty armchair in a huge sweatshirt while her grandparents argue with her ex-boyfriend about stupid shit.  

I absolutely hate McKayla.  She is becoming more and more like Shannon.  She's humorless.  Her grandparents suck.

But Caelen is no joy either.  I am not going to pick him just because McKayla is likely worse.  If anything, I'm Team Shelly.  Who the fuck is Caelen to be 20 years old and whining and bitching about what a victim he is in order to secure a spot on TV?  Does he think it is a good look to swear at people, which he did constantly this past episode?  Get a lawyer, dude, as everyone else is saying, or, I don't care, surrender your paternity rights to these kids and let the brain trust raise them.  But this situation is disgusting, and Caelen is a tremendous participant in it given the fact that he got McKayla pregnant twice.

If you are a 20 year old father with an 18 year old on-again, off again girlfriend, and you have one on the way, what are you doing having parties that are so loud, numerous and voluminous that you have to visit with the landlord in person?  Adjust your priorities.  Maybe if you partied less, you wouldn't have to "work" so much (again, I'm going to know what he's doing, and I'm going to need someone other than Caelen to substantiate once and for all which hours he is working, which is conspicuously absent from each episode, in order to say Caelan is out doing something so virtuous with all of this "working.")

He's also just not bright.  I don't know if this is editing's fault, but Caelan gave a talking head at the beginning of the episode where he said, "they don't think I spend enough time with my children" or something like that.  Caelen, you have one child.  The unborn child doesn't need to spend time with you.  Then, when Shannon was at the restaurant, he said something that was supposed to be mean, but it was just funny.  He said something like, "you're just sitting there thinking you can sit there and say..." I don't remember what was said verbatim, but they previewed it twice and he said it in the episode, so I heard it three times, and it was Caelan referring to Shannon "sitting" twice in one sentence, when it wasn't even relevant once.  You know who he will barely say "boo" to though?  McKayla.  He's still totally afraid of her.  Caelen and his giant Adam's apple can go bobble away any time.  He's a total loser to me.  

----------------------------------------

Max is a total liar, and crazy.  I've never seen someone lie so much.  He said that he was taking Xanax illegally, which, is a problem, but no one takes just Xanax.  I have been watching Intervention since 2005 and they have had people whose addiction was marijuana, but no one is ever addicted solely to Xanax.  It's not a very strong drug.  It's like Valium.  But that would still be bad enough.

But Max's dad asked him in a talking head what Max tested positive for, and Max answered "Fentanyl," so he's using both and probably more.  If Xanax is the Tylenol PM of controlled substances, then Fentanyl is the heroin. Actually, Fentanyl is stronger than heroin.  It's stronger than Oxy.  It's a big deal, especially if his mom died of a drug overdose.  If I were Max's dad, I would take him off TV right now, contracts be damned, ask Jessica and Chloe to take Ava for awhile--which I'm sure they'd only be so happy to do--because I am going to have to save my son's life.  Then I'd move him far away, get him into rehab, and stay off the TV.  

I don't think there's anything super wrong with kids experimenting with drugs or partying, but when they are new fathers that don't have independence?  I don't think there's room for pretty much anything other than working to make a household for their families.  The fact that Max thinks that drugs can't come in pill form (which he's probably crushing and snorting anyway) is just too stupid for words.  And I'm not completely sure why Max and his dad continue to harp on the fact that he had an addiction to "prescription drugs" that are from the street. Once a drug is purchased on the street, and not prescribed to you, they're street drugs; sorry about the stigma!  Also, Max said that he's not sure why he has to take drug tests because he committed fraud.  He committed fraud while under the influence of alcohol, which is a drug.  What part of this is new to Max, because I swear I knew this stuff since seventh grade.  

Chloe told her friend Maddie that Max would go to jail if he keeps failing drug tests.  Later in the episode, Max asked Chloe extensive questions about where their relationship would stand if Max were to go to jail.  Ergo, Max completely intends to continue to use drugs and fail drug tests just as long as Chloe will wait for him.  But he's "ok," right Chloe?  And Max is, as he told the therapist on the phone, "doing better."  Funny, I'm completely convinced of the opposite.

[bref]

Max is nowhere close to accepting he is a drug addict, and Chloe is enabling his denial. 

I'm Team Caelan mainly because I am Team Shelley and I feel pretty sure she is keeping him on the right path and is telling more truth about the situation than anyone else. He's not a saint but he is working a full time job, and if has had friends over to blow off some steam since McKayla took their son and left, I cant blame him for that. She would make me damn near psychotic.

Tyra is dumb as a post, but bless her for trying to breastfeed/pump with that room full of nattering ninnies. It's a shame a nurse didn't blow a whistle to clear them out and then get that girl a lactation consult. Her baby daddy was sweet, though, and I was sad for him that neither parent came through as he hoped. 

I just can't get interested in Rilah and Anthony. 

[ghoulina]

Caelen definitely isn't a saint, but I think he means well. He's still quite young; so I have hope for him. 

Also, in regards to him allegedly having wild parties with lots of people - some landlords are just dicks. So are some neighbours. Who knows what the real story is? 

[MilkMachine]

My jaw just about fell off of my face when I saw Chloe protest that Max doesn't need therapy. 

The upside of that ridiculous declaration, I guess, is that she said it on national TV and it seems likely that someone in her life is going to mention to her that's not how therapy works. Maybe I'm being a little too optimistic here, but it seems possible...

[readheaded]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Caelen definitely isn't a saint, but I think he means well. He's still quite young; so I have hope for him. 

Also, in regards to him allegedly having wild parties with lots of people - some landlords are just dicks. So are some neighbours. Who knows what the real story is? 

I read elsewhere that there’s speculation that McKayla called the landlord.  Who knows, but I wouldn’t put it past her. 

[Squirrely]

7 hours ago, bref said:

Tyra is dumb as a post, but bless her for trying to breastfeed/pump with that room full of nattering ninnies. It's a shame a nurse didn't blow a whistle to clear them out and then get that girl a lactation consult. Her baby daddy was sweet, though, and I was sad for him that neither parent came through as he hoped. 

That whole scene was giving me major anxiety. I was a married adult with a planned child, but I felt the same way in the hospital. I wanted everyone but my husband to go away! The difference being, I was able to articulate that to people, especially while trying to get breastfeeding established. It can be stressful enough without an audience of idiots telling you everything is wrong. 

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, MilkMachine said:

My jaw just about fell off of my face when I saw Chloe protest that Max doesn't need therapy. 

The upside of that ridiculous declaration, I guess, is that she said it on national TV and it seems likely that someone in her life is going to mention to her that's not how therapy works. Maybe I'm being a little too optimistic here, but it seems possible...

Even if it does happen, I wouldn't count on her smug, know-it-all self to actually listen. 

[Mr. Miner]

22 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

When Anthony was playing basketball with his mom's boyfriend

You mean the mom that has 6 kids by 6 different men? I wonder how many different boyfriends Anthony has endured in his 18 years?

[gonecrackers]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Minor said:

23 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

When Anthony was playing basketball with his mom's boyfriend

You mean the mom that has 6 kids by 6 different men? I wonder how many different boyfriends Anthony has endured in his 18 years?

I was in & out during that scene but in looking up I thought the guy was just his buddy. Guess baby #7 with daddy #7 will be on the way soon.

Edited September 4, 2019 by gonecrackers

[lovesnark]

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Caelen definitely isn't a saint, but I think he means well. He's still quite young; so I have hope for him. 

Also, in regards to him allegedly having wild parties with lots of people - some landlords are just dicks. So are some neighbours. Who knows what the real story is? 

That's the way I see him, too. He's 20 years old and is trying to be an adult and provide for the family he (foolishly) made. McKayla refuses to grow up and accept her role as a mother to the kids she (also foolishly) made. At least Caelen is attempting to start a life away from his mom. McKayla just wants to lay around 24/7 and have her enablers wait on her and raise her kid. I guess she doesn't remember that her sainted grandfather had to leave the house to go to work to put a roof over her head and food in her mouth.

As far as someone complaining about him having a lot of people over, what 20 year kid wouldn't invite his friends over to play video games, eat pizza and whatever to his house after his on/off/on/off/on/off girlfriend moved back to grandma and grandpa's? I didn't hear any accusations of wild parties, I only heard that someone called the landlord because there were 'a lot' of cars at his house at night. 

[AnnaMayWong]

I cannot rid myself of the image of McKayla shoving/pushing little Timmy when he urinated on her as she ineptly attempted to change his diaper upon an unsanitary carpet back Once Upon a Time in The Apartment. She knows nothing about caring for a baby because she’s never had to do so...her grand/great-parents have the honor to perform those duties. She’s a lazy, disrespectful, smug, spoiled wretch. Sadly, her grandparents are disgusting. Although, i do believe ole Cindy knows what’s what but gotta back Grandpa Tim and his effusive, warped love of McKayla. Caelan impregnated The Whiner TWiCE, therefore, he must accept his duties of children support- -financial, emotional, psychological,... However, get a frackin’ lawyer in order to establish fair guidelines, stop 'yur’ incessant whinin’ , end any relationship with McKayla except that of sanely and maturely co-parenting, and try to obtain at least an associate degree within the next several years. 

i realized upon viewing this episode that I intensely dislike Chloe. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by BookElitist
AN instead of A

[readheaded]

8 hours ago, BookElitist said:

I cannot rid myself of the image of McKayla shoving/pushing little Timmy when he urinated on her as she ineptly attempted to change his diaper upon a unsanitary carpet back Once Upon a Time in The Apartment. She knows nothing about caring for a baby because she’s never had to do so...her grand/great-parents have the honor to perform those duties. She’s a lazy, disrespectful, smug, spoiled wretch. Sadly, her grandparents are disgusting. Although, i do believe ole Cindy knows what’s what but gotta back Grandpa Tim and his effusive, warped love of McKayla. Caelan impregnated The Whiner TWiCE, therefore, he must accept his duties of children support- -financial, emotional, psychological,... However, get a frackin’ lawyer in order to establish fair guidelines, stop 'yur’ incessant whinin’ , end any relationship with McKayla except that of sanely and maturely co-parenting, and try to obtain at least an associate degree within the next several years. 

i realized upon viewing this episode that I intensely dislike Chloe. 

I think he's a mechanic?

[Pepper Mostly]

13 hours ago, lovesnark said:

As far as someone complaining about him having a lot of people over, what 20 year kid wouldn't invite his friends over to play video games, eat pizza and whatever to his house after his on/off/on/off/on/off girlfriend moved back to grandma and grandpa's? I didn't hear any accusations of wild parties, I only heard that someone called the landlord because there were 'a lot' of cars at his house at night. 

He's a young guy who works long hours, and he's probably the only one in his peer group who has his own place. So of course his friends are going to come over! When my son still lived at home his friends all used to come over on Wednesdays (after open mic night at one of the local watering holes), since his dad and I go to bed early. He was welcome to have his friends downstairs, as long as they kept it to a dull roar and cleaned up after themselves. Sometimes there were a few, a couple of times there were lots, and it was never "wild". A little rambunctious, but not crazy. We also had a couple of his friends living with us; everyone worked weird hours, one was a true night owl who'd be going to bed as I was getting up, and there were people in and out at all hours, especially the summer Pokemon Go was all the rage! Maybe some of the neighbors raised an eyebrow but no one complained. I do live in a college town near some of the dorms so the happy shouts of young folks aren't exactly unknown in my neighborhood. Anyway, I agree with @ghoulina, it just takes one jerk neighbor to cause a problem. My parents' neighbors were feuding with them for years--I got married at my parents' house, and the neighbors called the cops on us. At 8 pm on a Saturday night! Caelen is kind of a jerk, but I do think he's not a bad guy. And I wouldn't put it past little McKayla to say she was on birth control when she-Surprise!-wasn't.

[Soup333]

On 9/2/2019 at 12:50 PM, Giant Misfit said:

True fact that is. And while McKayla seems to be avoiding the hereditary meth face for now, that shit is gonna catch up with her real quick. Probably around the time she has her fifth or sixth kid with more random baby daddies. 

He should have thought about that before he impregnated her a second time. Much as I like Caelan, he made the decision to have more unprotected sex with a girl he could barely stand who was a shitty enough mother to the kid they already didn't want. 

Wasn't McKayla the one who said condoms hurt? 

On 9/3/2019 at 7:39 AM, gonecrackers said:

I'm guessing Caelen doesn't want a custody agreement because he wants the freedom to pop in & out to see his kids whenever he's not working or with his buds. Shelly is probably working & can't take them regularly either, & seems to be trying to keep more of a grandparent place in their lives. I liked her telling it like it is - "this girl is broken" - a very good & sensitive observation for someone who causes them so much trouble. However, as a poster mentioned above, her son had a huge role to play is creating children with that "broken" little girl. They were already having a ton of issues with McKayla yet he went ahead sans condom & now comes baby #2 when they can't even handle baby #1.

At this point if he really wants a place in his children's lives he needs to get the custody arrangement figured out, legally, according to his schedule, & become more than a paycheck to the lives he's helped create. He needs to be a father, not just a visitor who drops by for a few minutes & get verbally berated for not spending time with the kids. Caelen needs to stop whining & take some control- get the lawyer, get the shared custody agreement & schedule set, & then be a responsible grown up father. Oh, & stop making babies with a girl who can't even take care of herself.

I keep thinking it's something along these lines or he thinks nothing will come of it because  he works so much that the judge wouldn't allot him any time - I could totally see McKayla's shitty grandparents telling him that.

23 hours ago, readheaded said:

I read elsewhere that there’s speculation that McKayla called the landlord.  Who knows, but I wouldn’t put it past her. 

She said something at the dinner when this was brought up. Something like, none of that is my fault or I didn't have anything to do with it or something. Definitely made my ears perk up (but not enough to remember her exact quote lol).

My daughter follows Caelan on some social media - we live in Ohio not too incredibly far from Salem. She said he's always posting about work and does some type of landscaping and maybe has two jobs? Some very physical work at any rate. 

I'd hope that Caelan does get visitation because without it, he's at the mercy of McKayla's whims and when she's feeling petty, vindictive or just bored, she'll ban his family from seeing the kids. If she feels like her Youtube videos will get more views if she has drama with her ex, she'll start some shit with him just so she can rant about it online. She's a horrid little monster, a real Veruca Salt. I wish she'd fall into a hole and get off my television. 

[LibertarianSlut]

As far as Caelen and his landlord issues, I took it at face value, because it was verified by Shelley, who may just be the last truth-teller on this damned show.

When they were at the Italian rastaurant and everyone was getting on Caelen's case for being late to the birth that never happened, Shelley was like, "tell them why," and Caelen said that Shannon texted him not to come, and there was a whole melee about that and then Shelley said for Caelen to also say that he had to meet with the landlord, and Caelan, apparently not having his words, had to be walked through that by Shelley.  And Shelley was the one who alluded to parties or loud get-togethers.  And Caelen agreed or at least did not refute.

If the mother and the son admit that there were parties, I'm not going to probe further.  They admitted to it, so I'm not going to second-guess them and say that maybe McKayla called.  There's no evidence of that.

I'm not saying that 20 year old men shouldn't have parties.  I did so much partying in my early twenties, that if I said that, my nose would grow!  If Caelen was just a normal guy working and/or in school, I'd say it's completely cool for him to party his ass off.  But he has a child from whom he is somewhat estranged because he's fighting with his ex-girlfriend's entire family, and another one on the way. The fact is, he's in a precarious domestic situation of his own making (there are other bad actors, but he's certainly one of them IMO) and I think there is no room for parties at that stage of the game.  There's room for...therapy.  There's room for some recreation, like bringing those four beautiful dogs to the dog park.  But parties?  When you are up to your knees in shit?  I think parties are for people who earned them by thinking before they had sex (or drove drunk, etc).  I'm not even sure my 20 year old self would've been comfortable partying with the guy.  Chris Rock had a bit like 15-20 years ago where he said if he goes out to a club and there's a single mother there, he's like, "what the fuck you in the club for?"  That's where I'm at with this.  If Caelen is the only guy with his own place and his friends want to come over to party?  Then there is the saying:  "No" is a complete sentence.  If they come over anyway, it's trespassing and you call the cops.  That's how you avoid a drug possession charge.  By disallowing parties at your house.  That's how you avoid civil forfeiture (having your house getting taken away by the government)--by not allowing strangers into your home.  If McKayla is going to be vindictive enough to call the landlord, she's plenty vindictive enough to call the police and report underage drinking at Caelen's address.  If Caelen's friends can't wrap their minds around how much he has at stake, they're not friends, they're guys looking for a house to party in.

If Caelen had said "no" more often, as in, "No, McKayla, I don't want to have sex without a condom; we already have one baby" or "No, McKayla, I don't want to have sex at all.  You're acting very strange, you're putting me under a lot of stress, and I don't trust you in the contraception department," or, "No, McKayla, you may not adopt four giant puppies and leave them for me to raise," he would be in a lot less of a mess.  He tells Tim at the Italian restaruarant that all Tim has on him is "little shit"?  Well...why does Tim have "shit" on you at all?  You should be acting impeccable.  You had no business bringing one person into this world without the ability to support him in all areas that children need support.  Now you're fixing to do that for a second time.  None of these guys, not even Max, have fucked up so royally in this area of failing to learn from mistakes.  Repeatedly failing drug tests and repeatedly knocking up the same psychopath are completely different arenas, and while the first is bad, I think the second is much worse.  Think about these kids, man!

I just don't think anyone has ever modeled for Caelen how to be a man and it's showing.  Sorely.  I think it's a moral issue that Caelen go through the court system.  He has, as this episode aired, a child who is not getting the proper amount of time and attention from his father, because the great-grandparents and the mom are making the child's home situation hostile for the father.  If you want to be able to parent your child so that he doesn't turn out exactly like McKayla, Shannon, Tim and Tim's wife, you get the courts involved and you stay civil for the sake of the child.  What you don't do is go on TV and cry and curse and let one woman have you wrapped around her little finger (McKayla) and another woman speaking on your behalf (Shelley).  If I were writing this as a fiction piece, I'm not sure there would be a way that Caelen could portray a weaker character than he does now.  

He's 20 and he acts like he's 14.  It's so sad.  Hey Caelen, there are nine bajillion guys who knocked up their girlfriends before they were ready who handled the situation better than you.  The victim bullshit is getting so old.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/3/2019 at 3:58 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Also, what kind of stupid, sick asshole wants his daughter to have "elf ears" instead of taking a paternity test?  If Anthony's daughter has "elf ears," she's either going to have to undergo painful, expensive surgery to get them pinned back, or she's going to be the object of teasing and she going to be significantly less attractive when it comes to finding a mate of her own, but at least Anthony won't have to take a blood test!

I'm not sure he wants her to have elf ears, especially just so he won't have to take a blood test.  I think he's ignorant enough about genetics to think that any child of his will have elf ears no matter what, and the existence of the elf ears will prove that it's his kid.  Which makes me hope it doesn't have elf ears, but is still his according to a paternity test, just to watch his brain grapple with it.

.

On 9/3/2019 at 3:58 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

[Caelen's] also just not bright.  I don't know if this is editing's fault, but Caelan gave a talking head at the beginning of the episode where he said, "they don't think I spend enough time with my children" or something like that.  Caelen, you have one child.  The unborn child doesn't need to spend time with you.

As stupid as I think all the people in this show are, I'm convinced that the producers think the viewers are even stupider, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "children" comment was made after the new baby was born, and the producers wanted to use it as if it was said before the new baby, and just thought, "Eh, the viewers are so dumb they won't even notice."

.

On 9/3/2019 at 3:58 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

But Max's dad asked him in a talking head what Max tested positive for, and Max answered "Fentanyl," so he's using both and probably more. 

Parsing what Max and his dad say is a fool's errand, but I had the impression that whatever Max was taking was adulterated with fentanyl.  But then he said what he was taking had been prescribed to someone else (to, ahem, differentiate it from street drugs), so you'd think it wouldn't be adulterated.

[gonecrackers]

8 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Wasn't McKayla the one who said condoms hurt? 

Yes, she did.  I guess pills hurt too...

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

Yes, she did.  I guess pills hurt too...

Or, Tim and Cindy forgot to deliver them to her with a glass of water when she texted one of them from bed.

[IvySpice]

I snorted at the life lessons from Anthony's Mom's Fifth Baby Daddy. He was right about the paternity test, but he has so little credibility when it comes to planning and responsibility, it's a joke.

Quote

he said what he was taking had been prescribed to someone else (to, ahem, differentiate it from street drugs), so you'd think it wouldn't be adulterated.

Yeah, fentanyl is not being prescribed to his friends unless they have terminal bone cancer. Please. He's so dumb that it's plausible he wouldn't know what he was taking, but fentanyl and Xanax are of such different orders of magnitude, I can't fathom a user failing to distinguish their effects. My bet is that Max was looking for opiates and found them.

[gonecrackers]

59 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Or, Tim and Cindy forgot to deliver them to her with a glass of water when she texted one of them from bed.

It’s a long, lonely walk for her...

I also think I recall her saying she couldn’t take hormonal birth control, but don’t know for sure. 

I doubt the condoms hurt - it’s probably a lubrication issue (sorry- hope no one was eating).

[Soup333]

14 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

  He tells Tim at the Italian restaruarant that all Tim has on him is "little shit"?  Well...why does Tim have "shit" on you at all?  You should be acting impeccable.  

This expectation is a little much. I don't see how we can expect ANYONE to act impeccable, especially this crew. Even the ones that are doing fairly well - Laura, Emiley - are not going to be perfect. They're still kids. Even in their early 20's they're still young. They're going to make mistakes. That's what the parent is there for, to help them figure out their shit as they become adults. At least that's how it works in a healthy parent/child relationship. 

[Pepper Mostly]

9 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

It’s a long, lonely walk for her...

I also think I recall her saying she couldn’t take hormonal birth control, but don’t know for sure. 

I doubt the condoms hurt - it’s probably a lubrication issue (sorry- hope no one was eating).

On the one hand, McKayla is so uninterested in sex (or Caelen is such a shitty partner) that she's dry as a bone. (Jesus, they advertise lube on TV these days. No need for that!). On the other, they are so "carried away" by passion that they can't take a moment to take the very rudimentary steps to avoid pregnancy. McKayla is full of shit either way. She's just figured out that she runs the show and gets all the attention and whatever she wants when she's pregnant, and her willing acolytes, her grandparents, cosset her and wait on her because she's (take your pick) pregnant; tired; lonely. This is probably how she's going to cope for her whole life. Amber on Teen Mom should make some room on her couch, because McKayla will soon be there, mooing discontentedly, complaining, being "exhausted", and being mad at the world.

[Dmarie019]

So they're saying that Max accidentally took Fentanyl while thinking it was something else?  Kid is lucky to be alive.  Isn't that the stuff cops are scared they could accidentally touch with bare hands? 

[gonecrackers]

30 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

On the one hand, McKayla is so uninterested in sex

Can't see her being interested TBH.

5 minutes ago, Dmarie019 said:

So they're saying that Max accidentally took Fentanyl while thinking it was something else?  Kid is lucky to be alive.  Isn't that the stuff cops are scared they could accidentally touch with bare hands? 

I watch enough LivePD & LiveRescue that yes, that is the one - it can be airborne as well so is very dangerous for them.  Addicts are constantly lying, so he probably knew what he had, or was after something a lot harder than they think & Fent. got in there, but judging from the PD show, they typically know what they have & just lie about it.