S05.E01: Episode 1

[Milburn Stone]

On 8/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, scrb said:

Well Whitney is still her bitchy self, about her boyfriend being this undiscovered genius painter.

FWIW, I thought that was Whitney being sincerely supportive, although of course, because it's coming from Whitney, it sounds a little bit snarky. The boyfriend's self-deprecating reaction was not because he was stung by her snark, but because he was embarrassed by her (intended to be helpful) overpraise.

Also, not to relitigate Ruth's death, but I continue to think suicide is far more probable given everything we were shown, and I wonder if we will somehow have that confirmed in this season.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

It looks like they are trying to show Whitney going down the same path her mother did, marrying a struggling artist (writer for Noah) who ends up teaching but deep down inside is unsatisfied with his lot in life because he could have been more.  Of course, Whitney's beau could possibly not be a jackass.  Not all writer's, artists, etc. who do not make it big when young become Noah Fucking Solloway.

[LoveLeigh]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Also, not to relitigate Ruth's death, but I continue to think suicide is far more probable given everything we were shown, and I wonder if we will somehow have that confirmed in this season.

You are saying the first part of episode 9 of last season was the correct version (and somehow she commits suicide which we did not see) and not the second part where we see Ben murder Alison? That would be an interesting twist. 

[Milburn Stone]

29 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

You are saying the first part of episode 9 of last season was the correct version (and somehow she commits suicide which we did not see) and not the second part where we see Ben murder Alison? That would be an interesting twist. 

I am saying that, for specific reasons that were discussed on that episode thread and don't need to be rehashed here.

[scrb]

If it turns out to be suicide, then the premise for this story line, which is suppose to be a big part of this season, gets undermined.

Why would Joanie be so unsettled if it was suicide as the police ruled at the time?

But somehow she had suspicions and she won't rest until she uncovers the truth?

Why couldn't she find all this out before she had a family so she isn't a sour puss to her husband and kids?

[Milburn Stone]

20 minutes ago, scrb said:

If it turns out to be suicide, then the premise for this story line, which is suppose to be a big part of this season, gets undermined.

Why would Joanie be so unsettled if it was suicide as the police ruled at the time?

But somehow she had suspicions and she won't rest until she uncovers the truth?

Why couldn't she find all this out before she had a family so she isn't a sour puss to her husband and kids?

I don't know anything about what's "supposed" to be a big part of this season, since I don't like to be spoiled and so I avoid all show publicity. (Plus I find publicity unhelpful even after I've seen an episode. If what we need to know isn't in the show, the show's not working.)

But so far, based on the evidence of the season opener, I don't see any reason for us to conclude why Joanie is unsettled. We only know that she is. From what she said, it seems to have more to do with her father than her mother. (Although I don't rule out other explanations at all.)

And even if it turns out that future episodes show us that she suspects homicide in her mother's death, those suspicions could be revealed to be unwarranted without making the story of those suspicions any less compelling.

[scrb]

How would they even dramatize that it was a suicide?

She finds a witness and the witness recounts what he or she saw, which was Alison walking to the pier and jumping off?

Unless Ruth Wilson filmed such a scene and they're going to show it this season, not sure how that works.

Or is Joanie going to be mad that her mother killed herself and left her alone, a child?

In any event, not sure what else would be the point of having the adult Joanie as a character getting a lot of screen time this season.

Wilson wasn't coming back and the producers and Showtime wanted one more season after she left.  Sure they could wrap up Helen and Noah's stories and looks like they're not even going to bother wrapping up Cole's story.

So they needed another character to fill time?

Maybe Joanie's story won't have anything to do with her parents, though she's apparently going to try to find Ben.

Maybe she'll have her own affair or something with a completely different character or maybe with Noah's youngest boy or something.

A lot of viewers were getting over the show even before they saw season 4 and Alison's death and the plans to have yet another season afterwards without one of the main characters of the show.  So they're likely to come in for a lot of criticism.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Courtesans,

Let's keep discussion of the previews out of the episode thread.  As stated in the spoiler policy for this forum, we have viewers who chose to not watch previews. 

[cardigirl]

When The Affair first premiered, I recall reading that the creators envisioned a 5-season arc.  They didn't know if they would get 5 seasons, but that was what they were hoping for. So definitely NOT PUSHING IT.  I've loved the storyline, for the most part, every season.  It's definitely not a show I hate-watch.  Only season 3 seemed to go off the rails a bit for me, but even then, it had some redeeming events in it. 

I think many viewers came for the mystery of who killed Scotty and once that was resolved, didn't know why they were watching. The show was/is so much more than that.  

And, like life, the show reveals messy messed-up relationships and people. 

I'm in for all of it.  Maybe I'll like what's coming, maybe I'll be disappointed (looking at you, Jane the Virgin), but I'll watch.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

To my ears, Joanie was saying that she did not want to celebrate her birthday because she is turning the age her mother was when she died.  That could certainly mean the age at which she believes her mother killed herself.  Given Joanie's medication and her demeanor in the episode, if she is depressed, being Alison's age is one more hit and could lead to Joanie feeling she is near the end of her life (or should swallow a bottle of pills).  Do I particularly care about Joanie? No.  Do I think there is an interesting story to tell about children of parents who died/are believed to have committed suicide? Absolutely.  

On a shallow note, hi Joanie's husband.  You seem like a lovely man.  Did you marry her when she was like this or did Mopey McMopeyson come later?

[LibertarianSlut]

I must be slow, because I had no idea that was method acting the guy was doing at the diner.  I thought that we were steeped in Noah's perspective, and for some reason we were supposed to think Noah was so deep into his ego that he thought everyone was emulating him.  So...fail, me.  But great job Dominic West for doing a scene with an Englishman and not letting go of your American accent!  I used to hear Ruth Wilson's English accent spill over into the show all the time and it drove me bananas.

I also thought Joanie was Luisa when I first saw her, and i was like, "those kids must be adopted, because Luisa's infertile."  So, just shows that my mind is not there.  I don't really want or need Joanie, or the future.  I don't like Anna Paquin's speaking voice.  It is scratchy like Holly Hunter's.

Did anyone sense a theme of drug use in this episode?  Didn't the actor playing Noah say he's sober?  Then Whitney's boyfriend is sober, when they showed Noah at Helen's house after the funeral, there were a ridiculous number of empty wine glasses on the counter behind his head--like two dozen or more, everyone was drinking, Vik was being given his meds, Helen taking one of Vik's pills (I think that was a heavy-duty painkiller, not Benadryl), and I'll throw the whole oil thing in there as far as Sierra's labor goes.  

I liked how this episode didn't just show different perspectives, it played with the time line.  First came Vik's funeral with Noah and then came Vik's pre-death with Helen (I'm not discussing Joanie).  I...don't really feel bad for Helen if she wasn't Vik's wife.  I mean, I feel a little bad for her, but that was the decision she made.  She was with the guy for eight years and they chose not to marrry, so she doesn't get to make decisions as if the guy is her husband.  Fair enough.

Vik also, as someone up thread pointed out, could have changed his will to have it reflect whatever he wanted it to, and he didn't, so this is the situation we're in when adults don't adult properly.

Someone said this show is paced about two years for every year we watch, and that is how Vikram was in Helen's life for eight years.  That's all fine and good, but the production team should have prepared something for how the children are going to age, because those are not people who have aged 8 years since we met them.  I can't fan-wave that.  It's too big of a deal, because the kids are central to the story.  If Noah and Helen had not had kids, things might be completely different.  They might be back together, because there would be no one to answer to.

Noah's first asshole move of the season!  His girlfriend texts him that she left, and she's clearly upset, and there is no-follow up shown onscreen.  That's our Noah for us.  

I loved Helen's honesty when Noah was taking out the garbage and she asked why it couldn't have been Noah who died of cancer instead.  We were all thinking about it, or at least I was.  And I don't hate Noah with a passion.  It's just the way some people think when disaster hits.

I agree there should not be any source we should have to consult outside of the four corners of the show for it to make complete sense.  If we had to read or watch press, someone failed.  

[Snewtsie]

2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I liked how this episode didn't just show different perspectives, it played with the time line.  

I really enjoyed all your observations. I am just going to comment on the quote above. The show did show different perspectives, most noticeably with Noah & Helen having their individual POV the day of the funeral.  Noah saw Helen surrounded by the kids, wearing ethnic attire in honor of Vic, and ultimately angry at him (Noah) for leaving her. He saw himself more as an outsider to a family who was in mourning & supporting each other. Helen, on the other hand, saw herself as completely alone & numb & empty.  No awareness of kids giving her their support, wearing something she probably simply pulled from her closet, no concern about Vic's mother or the valet parking guys, and totally indifferent to Noah & his past betrayal.  I found her segment heartbreaking, and a real portrayal of how one feels when a loved one dies. Nothing else matters & one goes through the motions of what seems to be expected. I felt it was very effective.

[LibertarianSlut]

^^^

Yes, yes, yes, they changed the perspective and the timeline.  Sometimes I use too many words to express what I want to say and it gets lost in the message, but I completely agree, and wow, you have those differences down!  I only noticed about 2/3 of them, and I was watching.  You picked up on the emotional stuff about Helen's feelings of isolation much better than I did.

[Snewtsie]

2 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

^^^

Yes, yes, yes, they changed the perspective and the timeline.  Sometimes I use too many words to express what I want to say and it gets lost in the message, but I completely agree, and wow, you have those differences down!  I only noticed about 2/3 of them, and I was watching.  You picked up on the emotional stuff about Helen's feelings of isolation much better than I did.

Thanks.  It resonated with me. My father just passed away & had the funeral last week, so it was very real to me.  And the truth was I was glad to see the show has continued with the different perspectives.  Noah feels so much guilt over leaving his family, he can't forgive himself even though Helen & the kids have clearly moved on....  BTW, I really liked your observation of Dominic West expertly maintaining his American accent during the first scene (I always forget he is British!).

[preeya]

1 hour ago, Snewtsie said:

really liked your observation of Dominic West expertly maintaining his American accent during the first scene (I always forget he is British!).

He's played so many American characters (Jimmy McNulty five years) he may have lost his British accent. 😀

Edited August 28, 2019 by preeya

[Armchair Critic]

Noah's an ass but I almost pity him for those snotty kids, that little Trevor I could have slapped.

[Milburn Stone]

A particular moment in this episode made me think differently about the varying perspectives the show presents us with.

It was when Helen (in Noah's version) says to him, "Why didn't you die instead of Vic?"

That is so vicious that I can't believe that even Noah thinks she said that to him, or remembers the scene that way. However, I can believe that Noah senses that she thinks this, even though he knows full well she never said it. (And would never claim that she actually said it.)

So that means that the story we see from a character's perspective has never been the literal truth of what that character experienced, even in his or her own mind. These scenes are rather the character's reading of what was happening--consciously experienced as an interpretation, rather than being delusionally mistaken by the character for reality. If pressed to recount the scene, the character would be perfectly capable of providing an objective account that stuck to the actual words spoken. But the character's inner experience of the scene, which includes his/her mind-reading of what other characters are thinking though not saying, is different. And this is what we are seeing.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[Dminches]

Off topic...

Did the “manage followed content” view change?  Didn’t it show the forum thread which had the last post as opposed to now just showing the forum?

[nara]

13 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

Thanks.  It resonated with me. My father just passed away & had the funeral last week, so it was very real to me.  

I’m sorry for your loss.

[JenE4]

16 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

A particular moment in this episode made me think differently about the varying perspectives the show presents us with.

It was when Helen (in Noah's version) says to him, "Why didn't you die instead of Vic?"

That is so vicious that I can't believe that even Noah thinks she said that to him, or remembers the scene that way. However, I can believe that Noah senses that she thinks this, even though he knows full well she never said it. (And would never claim that she actually said it.)

So that means that the story we see from a character's perspective has never been the literal truth of what that character experienced, even in his or her own mind. These scenes are rather the character's reading of what was happening beneath the surface of the actual events and dialogue. If pressed to recount the scene, the character would be perfectly capable of providing an objective account that stuck to the actual words spoken. But the character's inner experience of the scene, which includes his/her mind-reading of what other characters are thinking if not saying, is different. And this is what we are seeing.

Yes, I think that’s why the characters are always “so much”—now we have Helen and Joanie so depressed, just like Allison always was. Also, for example of a character being “too much,” Noah started out as typical Noah Fucking Solloway with the “fan” eye fucking him from across the restaurant—until it turns out she was staring at the director/actor (unclear to me). The actor’s questioning makes him have to admit that he cheated on Helen because being with her made him realize that he wasn’t good enough, rich enough, successful enough—just not “enough.” Then the whole rest of his storyline was how he just doesn’t measure up. The funeral has  Vik’s photo in “successful doctor pose” as opposed to “friendly, regular guy drinking coffee.” Noah thinks 2 million for the house is way too much—and Janelle hits home that you think a measly 2 mil, more like 4 mil! Helen’s dad thinks Noah is successful and has this house—but Noah has to explain that it’s not his home, and he’s not with Helen. Helen tells him not to fuck it up with Janelle, but he fucks it up with Janelle. His kids still hate him—Whitney didn’t even tell him she was engaged! He has to hear how this almost-step-dad was a better father to these kids than he was. (Aside: Noah also hears him mention his son, when he wouldn’t have known whether he was having a son or a daughter when he recorded this. I think the name Anders was said instead of Eddie.) Noah then paints himself as the victim. He did dishes! He cleaned the apartment! He tried to bring out the garbage! But he’s still not as good as Vik. Actually, that may have been in Helen’s story. But in his story he did try to help with the kids and Helen at the funeral—he was going to try to go talk to the valet—in his mind, enough that he should get a gold star, but everyone thinks he’s a loser. Poor Noah Fucking Solloway. Actually, if everyone is depressed this whole season, ugh, this is going to not be a fun watch. But I guess that’s the point of this whole show—the eCCCHHHooo [he] created* by fucking the waitress ruined all these people’s lives.

*ETA: Actually, if we imagine Allison singing the theme song, then this season makes more sense with the echo she created outlasting her last breath. And she literally sunk back into the ocean—with her killer dumping her body in it.

Edited August 29, 2019 by JenE4

[grommit2]

OK fans...I need some insight from the experts.
Way back in the first season, the Cole brothers were making money dealing drugs (cocaine). 
1) There was a story thread that included Alison helping to move the drugs from a boat to the taxi service that the Coles ran...is this correct?
2) There was a story thread that involved a sizable stash of coke being buried somewhere on the Cole ranch.  Is this correct? 
Thanks!
 

[stormy weather]

On 8/27/2019 at 6:48 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Maybe she will solve her mom's murder. But, it has to be at least 25 years in to the future. So Ben Cruz is how old? 65? And how will Joanie solve the crime? The only way is if Ben confesses. 

It still makes me wonder why they would still pursue that storyline when the viewers already know Ben Cruz killed her (as crazy and contrived that was, because it really felt like one day the writers' room went like "- Hey, btw, Rachel Wilson wants out and we have one last episode to write, whatever shall we do with her? - Listen, I don't know, let's just have this guy she just met and who never showed any hint of having PTSD so far randomly kill her and dispose of her body. - Oh yeah, that's cool.) I mean, I don't want to watch a completely new and utterly uninteresting character steal screen time from the regulars to investigate a crime that's not even a mystery for me anymore. Whyyyy though? Who cares?!

On 8/28/2019 at 4:19 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Also, not to relitigate Ruth's death, but I continue to think suicide is far more probable given everything we were shown, and I wonder if we will somehow have that confirmed in this season.

I also thought suicide would be a more fitting way to end things for her character, but given what we've seen in the finale (and was shown to us again in this episode's "previously on"), plus what both Ruth Wilson and the writers have said after last season aired, it seems like it's pretty established that Ben killed her.

Finally, I just wanted to say that 1. my favorite character of the episode was Janelle and although I would hope to see more of her, at the same time I'm thinking "Janelle for the sake of all that's good and holy, get the F out of there, girl. These arrogant pricks don't deserve you." and 2. Maura Tierney truly did a fantastic job in her scenes. I have loved her since her E.R. days and she might be is the only reason why I still watch this trainwreck of a show. 

[LoveLeigh]

3 hours ago, stormy weather said:

.......  and she might be is the only reason why I still watch this trainwreck of a show. 

I do not think the show is a train wreck. I think season 3 was awful, with all of Noah's hallucinations after he was in jail... but it got back on track in season 4. I am looking forward to this season. I think episode 1 was fabulous. 

While WE know Alison was murdered, her death was concluded to be a suicide. So maybe Joanie will solve that crime and finally Ben will be arrested for murder. I cannot see any other reason to even have Joanie there in the future in the show except to bring justice to her mother's death. 

[Gemini Gipsy]

Anna Paquins debut, and onscreen for all of what? 5 minutes?....and 4 1/2 of them featured her in the nude. Shocker.

I've probably seen that girls tits more than Vampire Bill. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I didn’t hate this. 

I was very sad for Helen. Maura Tierney did a nice job. I am also proud of her for not going under the knife. She is aging naturally and looks terrific.

That’s a really dumb medication container.

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

That’s a really dumb medication container.

I didn't think about it, but you're right. In what way, exactly, is an electronic label superior to a paper one?

Reminds me of a truism somebody said, that if e-readers and computers existed first, and somebody just now invented paper, we'd consider it a tremendous advance.

[scrb]

24 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I didn’t hate this. 

I was very sad for Helen. Maura Tierney did a nice job. I am also proud of her for not going under the knife. She is aging naturally and looks terrific.

When she turned over and revealed her breast to Noah, it looked unnaturally round and firm considering that she was lying down.

[Babalu]

7 minutes ago, scrb said:

When she turned over and revealed her breast to Noah, it looked unnaturally round and firm considering that she was lying down.

Maura Tierney had breast cancer several years ago, and her treatment included a mastectomy, so there has been reconstructive surgery. Not that I know whether it was the breast we saw - probably not, now that I think about it, because we probably would have seen some scarring unless they covered it with makeup.

 As for the episode as a whole - I loved it. Joanie’s segment was the least entertaining for me and Anna Paquin’s moroseness wasn’t my favorite, but I enjoyed the futuristic touches, however contrived they may have been. Mostly, I was deeply moved by everything Helen and/or Vik and sobbed so much during the last ten minutes that I could hardly see the screen. (Full disclosure: my husband passed away a couple of years ago, so the emotions aren’t too hard to tap into.)

[LoveLeigh]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:23 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I do not think the show is a train wreck. I think season 3 was awful, with all of Noah's hallucinations after he was in jail... but it got back on track in season 4. I am looking forward to this season. I think episode 1 was fabulous. 

While WE know Alison was murdered, her death was concluded to be a suicide. So maybe Joanie will solve that crime and finally Ben will be arrested for murder. I cannot see any other reason to even have Joanie there in the future in the show except to bring justice to her mother's death. 

I keep thinking maybe it was a suicide and the second version was the wrong version of Alison's death. The band aid is proof of nothing. Ben had an alibi. So unless the time of death is really off, maybe the real version we have yet to see. Maybe Ruth Wilson filmed that before she made her exit from the show. 

I keep thinking if the detective said he was positive it was suicide... it had to be from more than just that bang on her head when he thinks she hit the rocks in the water. Did they not check her house to see if there was any sign that she had any visitor? Did the detective make such a huge mistake? Did he not explore that she might have been pushed and banged her head and carried alive in to the water and drowned in that way? 

What was Ben's alibi? That he was in a bar getting drunk? How long was he there? The detective did a crappy investigation. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by DakotaLavender
clarity

[Razzberry]

Her death should never have been ruled a suicide without unquestionable proof.  At most it should be 'undetermined.'  Suicide has all kinds of ramifications for family, insurance, etc.  I can't imagine what that did to Joanie, thinking her mother didn't love her enough to live.  No wonder she's messed up.

I hate it when showrunners explain or confirm details.  If it's not clear or on the screen, it's open to interpretation, imo.  That said, Treem did say Ben killed her, and that's hard to ignore. I'm glad though, because i would have hated her if she killed herself.  

[nara]

Slightly off topic, but I wonder if Noah’s kids would be as rude to him as they are if they learned the truth about Scotty’s death. I wonder if that will be revealed to them this season.

[LoveLeigh]

Oh screw Helen. She wishes cancer death on her ex husband who took the rap for her hitting Scotty in the car and he was the one who went to jail. He was nothing but nice to her on the day of Vic's funeral and she is so bitter and angry. 

I am not part of the Maura Tierney love. She annoys me in so many ways. I am not even sure if it is Maura Tierney or Helen. Plus, Helen has some real nasty habits. 

[Growsonwalls]

9 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Oh screw Helen. She wishes cancer death on her ex husband who took the rap for her hitting Scotty in the car and he was the one who went to jail. He was nothing but nice to her on the day of Vic's funeral and she is so bitter and angry. 

I am not part of the Maura Tierney love. She annoys me in so many ways. I am not even sure if it is Maura Tierney or Helen. Plus, Helen has some real nasty habits. 

I've actually disliked MT since Abby's neuroses took over every storyline in ER. It's not Maura Tierney's fault but she just exudes a very nervous, unsettled energy onscreen and that's always limited my sympathy of her characters. 

The show really suffers without Joshua Jackson/Cole. I think Cole was the closest thing the show had to a good guy. He had his moments but you could believe that everything he did he did because he loved Alison and Joanie. And Luisa was also a fairly normal character. Actually all the scenes in Montauk grounded the series in a way that made it seem less like Rich White People Problems. 

[AngelaHunter]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:31 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

To my ears, Joanie was saying that she did not want to celebrate her birthday because she is turning the age her mother was when she died.  That could certainly mean the age at which she believes her mother killed herself. 

It's my understanding that children who have a parent commit suicide can have long-lasting emotional problems with that. "My mother chose to leave me. I wasn't important enough to her" may seem childish and one would think that the grown child could understand, but it would be difficult not to see it that way.  I still think Alison was murdered.

Switching scenes to Joanie in the AI future was so jarring when it started with the kids blowing those fantastic creations I thought, "What the fuck?" and that it was another program entirely.  The bonking scene was all kinds of unappealing. 

9 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Oh screw Helen. She wishes cancer death on her ex husband who took the rap for her hitting Scotty in the car and he was the one who went to jail. He was nothing but nice to her on the day of Vic's funeral and she is so bitter and angry. 

Amen. She's been bitter and angry since the series started. After all these years, she's still so resentful and furious she wishes Noah had cancer and died. I can understand someone suffering a traumatic loss and wishing someone, anyone had been taken instead. But to say something like that is just evil.

These things happen. People fall out of love and fall in love with someone else and really, for all Helen's "You left me alone with four children", which made it sound like she was dressed in rags and begging for pennies on the street to feed her starving offspring. In fact she was in a way better position than the vast majority of women who are left with children, if only because she never had to worry financially which is quite a big deal, actually. Daddy's money is always there. So she snags the handsome, successful, kind doctor (I never figured out what he found so captivating about her and her pouting, perma-bitchface) goes to live in a mansion in CA and is still so angry at Noah she says to him the worst thing you can say to anyone.  Get the fuck over it, Helen. A lot of water has flowed under that bridge.

Noah was under no obligation to clean up the disaster left in that kitchen, and if I had someone do that for me, AND take out the garbage I think I'd be willing to forgive nearly anything short of 1st-degree murder. I'm not a fan of Noah Fucking Solloway, but his behavior in this instance was beyond reproach.

20 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

And Luisa was also a fairly normal character.

Luisa was the one character on this show I actually really liked.

[Growsonwalls]

19 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Luisa was the one character on this show I actually really liked.

I think Luisa was the one character where The Affair didn't jump the shark. For awhile I thought they'd make her this villainess who would refuse to let Alison see Joanie, but they actually wrote that whole storyline pretty well and realistically -- some tension at first, but the involved parties did the mature thing that was best for Joanie. 

Again, it's also the acting. Catalina Sandino Moreno and Joshua Jackson are/were rather warm actors, and grounded the show that way. 

[izabella]

43 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Noah was under no obligation to clean up the disaster left in that kitchen, and if I had someone do that for me, AND take out the garbage I think I'd be willing to forgive nearly anything short of 1st-degree murder. I'm not a fan of Noah Fucking Solloway, but his behavior in this instance was beyond reproach.

We saw Noah cleaning up in his version of events, so it's possible he wasn't as helpful as he remembered himself being,.

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think Luisa was the one character where The Affair didn't jump the shark. For awhile I thought they'd make her this villainess who would refuse to let Alison see Joanie, but they actually wrote that whole storyline pretty well and realistically

Agree. The only part that grated was watching her - a smart, savvy, independent, beautiful woman - tolerate the abysmal behavior of Emo, sadsack Cole as long as she did. He always had a long face and sad eyes as he spent all his time with Luisa moping over Alison. I didn't care much for Cole, but I cannot fault the performance of the actor and I did like their scenes together.  

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

. It's not Maura Tierney's fault but she just exudes a very nervous, unsettled energy onscreen and that's always limited my sympathy of her characters. 

 

This is the only show I've seen her in, and you've put into words the very thing about her that bothers me. Her every scene seems to reek of tension and I constantly expect her to go completely off the rails

1 minute ago, izabella said:

We saw Noah cleaning up in his version of events, so it's possible he wasn't as helpful as he remembered himself being,.

Oh, thanks for that reminder. It's been so long since this show has been on that I completely missed or forgot that aspect. Yeah, Helen's version might be very different!

[EtheltoTillie]

I'm just coming here to say that it seems they're pretending the awful season 3 didn't exist.  I don't even think they showed anything of it in the "previously on" timeline.  (I didn't pay close attention.)  Nothing that happened in season 3 really matters in the overall trajectory of the show.  I personally bailed on season 3 after a couple of episodes but read the comments here.

Edited September 1, 2019 by GussieK

[Milburn Stone]

The one thing I think was of value about Season 3 is how it eventually showed us that Noah feels responsibility and guilt for his mother's death (feelings which he doesn't deserve to feel, but hey, that's what people do), and how this may well have played into his willingly going to jail in place of Helen. (To finally get the punishment for manslaughter that he always subconsciously felt he deserved.)

[Otherkate]

On 8/28/2019 at 3:51 PM, Snewtsie said:

I really enjoyed all your observations. I am just going to comment on the quote above. The show did show different perspectives, most noticeably with Noah & Helen having their individual POV the day of the funeral.  Noah saw Helen surrounded by the kids, wearing ethnic attire in honor of Vic, and ultimately angry at him (Noah) for leaving her. He saw himself more as an outsider to a family who was in mourning & supporting each other. Helen, on the other hand, saw herself as completely alone & numb & empty.  No awareness of kids giving her their support, wearing something she probably simply pulled from her closet, no concern about Vic's mother or the valet parking guys, and totally indifferent to Noah & his past betrayal.  I found her segment heartbreaking, and a real portrayal of how one feels when a loved one dies. Nothing else matters & one goes through the motions of what seems to be expected. I felt it was very effective.

I absolutely loved Helen's version of that day. It was so effective, relatable, and the Dar Williams song playing in the background really did me in. Lovely. 

9 hours ago, izabella said:

We saw Noah cleaning up in his version of events, so it's possible he wasn't as helpful as he remembered himself being,.

Oh, I think this is very likely. I mean...it's Noah.

[Snewtsie]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

I'm just coming here to say that it seems they're pretending the awful season 3 didn't exist.  I don't even think they showed anything of it the "previously on" timeline.  (I didn't pay close attention.)  Nothing that happened in season 3 really matters in the overall trajectory of the show.  I personally bailed on season 3 after a couple of episodes but read the comments here.

I think we are all pretending the awful season 3 didn't exist. 

[Razzberry]

13 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Agree. The only part that grated was watching her - a smart, savvy, independent, beautiful woman - tolerate the abysmal behavior of Emo, sadsack Cole as long as she did. He always had a long face and sad eyes as he spent all his time with Luisa moping over Alison. I didn't care much for Cole, but I cannot fault the performance of the actor and I did like their scenes together.

Agree 100% with this.  Luisa deserved better than "Yeah, let's end it, but I'll let you hang around and help raise Joanie,  which will still give me some control and limit your chances of finding someone else."

So far Luisa hasn't been mentioned by Joanie.  Maybe she decided a green card wasn't worth it.

[Gemini Gipsy]

16 hours ago, izabella said:

We saw Noah cleaning up in his version of events, so it's possible he wasn't as helpful as he remembered himself being,.

I feel like the truth lies somewhere in the middle when they show the 2 perspectives and the POV of the respective character is greatly exaggerated.  

I'm sure he washed a dish, picked up a small amount but he certainly didnt slave for hours on end for no reason expect to be "helpful". Noah has never been shown to be that selfless. 

My guess is, he sees Vic dying as an opportunity to slide right in and win her back. That would make sense. 

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

My guess is, he sees Vic dying as an opportunity to slide right in and win her back. That would make sense. 

You really think he wants her back? I never got that impression. After all, every woman who lays eyes on Noah Fucking Solloway throws herself at him, so he's spoiled for choice. 🤣

[Adultosaurus]

I was out the minute we flashed to Joanie's future home, checking oxygen levels, etc. 
Loved you, The Affair, but see ya.

[Lemons]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:53 AM, weaver said:

How old was Joanie when last we saw her, 4 or 5?  I forget.  And now the Joanie character is saying she'll be as old as her mother when her mother died, 27.  So the Joanie scenes are 22 or so years in the future.  

As for Helen and money, I don't think she has to worry after Vik's death because of Daddy's riches from his novels.  She bought the Brooklyn brownstone when Noah was an underpaid teacher.

I liked the beginning.   Not so sure I'm going to like the Joanie plot or the Helen with next door neighbor's baby plot or Noah's bratty daughter's boyfriend plot.   I really miss Ruth Wilson and JJ.  I'll follow it through until the end.  Wonder what happened to JJ in  Treem's script?  

I think Joanie’s mother was probably 37 not 27.  She had a previous marriage and a child who died when he was 4 or something.  

[LuvMyShows]

On 8/28/2019 at 7:22 PM, Milburn Stone said:

So that means that the story we see from a character's perspective has never been the literal truth of what that character experienced, even in his or her own mind. These scenes are rather the character's reading of what was happening--consciously experienced as an interpretation, rather than being delusionally mistaken by the character for reality. If pressed to recount the scene, the character would be perfectly capable of providing an objective account that stuck to the actual words spoken. But the character's inner experience of the scene, which includes his/her mind-reading of what other characters are thinking though not saying, is different. And this is what we are seeing.

However, if the bold is true, then the whole conceit of the show is meaningless.  If everyone's perspective is meaningless in terms of what the reality really is, then it doesn't matter what they show, from anyone's perspective.  In Noah's version, they could show Noah's new girlfriend being hit by lightning, because he feels like she 'bolted' from the reception, but in Helen's version, the girlfriend spends the night because Helen feels like the woman is trying to 'move in' on Noah.  There would also be no point in showing those little differences (the memorial service pic of Vik, etc.), because literally everything is not to be taken as representative of anything.

On 8/28/2019 at 1:31 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I agree there should not be any source we should have to consult outside of the four corners of the show for it to make complete sense.  If we had to read or watch press, someone failed.  

Yes, and likewise this as well.

On 8/27/2019 at 11:00 PM, Growsonwalls said:

The reason I liked Alison and Cole was that the times they showed them having sex it seemed like a normal sexual relationship. Every other coupling made sex seem like an expression of a totally fucked up psyche and that got tiring. Joanie just “lying there” was more of the same of that. People can have a normal shag in bed, ya know? 

On 8/28/2019 at 12:07 AM, preeya said:

Apparently not on this show. That alleged sex scene with Paquin was absurd.

The whole time I saw it, I thought that it was an intentional call back to when Noah first saw Cole with Allison (it may also be the first time we saw Cole, but I'm not sure), and Cole was having sex with her from behind (in the driveway or something?) but Allison looked completely disinvolved with it.

[AngelaHunter]

10 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

However, if the bold is true, then the whole conceit of the show is meaningless.  If everyone's perspective is meaningless in terms of what the reality really is, then it doesn't matter what they show, from anyone's perspective. 

So I'm really confused now. I came to think that the Noah perspective about scenes involving him was the way he'd written them in his "Fiction based on a true story" book, i.e. Alison being all flirty and sexual when he met her on the beach that first time and that her perspective (or the perspectives of others who share scenes with Noah) were the way things actually happened.  Events about which Noah knew nothing - for example when Helen went to visit Max and they had sex and Helen's scenes with Vik, Cole & Luisa, Cole visiting his dad's old girlfriend, etc,  were accurate, or were they? None of that was in Noah's book since he was not privy to any of it.  That's how I perceived it all, but that's not right either since we saw two perspectives about the night of Alison's death and Noah knew nothing about that. So now I'm making no sense and I've even more confused.

[chick binewski]

On 8/31/2019 at 11:37 PM, AngelaHunter said:

Agree. The only part that grated was watching her - a smart, savvy, independent, beautiful woman - tolerate the abysmal behavior of Emo, sadsack Cole as long as she did. He always had a long face and sad eyes as he spent all his time with Luisa moping over Alison. I didn't care much for Cole, but I cannot fault the performance of the actor and I did like their scenes together.  

This is the only show I've seen her in, and you've put into words the very thing about her that bothers me. Her every scene seems to reek of tension and I constantly expect her to go completely off the rails

I think I'm one of the few viewers who disliked both Luisa and Vik. I didn't get why Vik was with Helen except for the fact he was kind of chilly (like her) and I thought any kind of affectionate relationship with the children wasn't really demonstrated - it seemed the writers tacked on a few lines over the past few seasons just to show how far from reach Noah's family had become. Luisa went brother-jumping from the violent coke-dealer to the damaged coke-dealer and got all bent out of shape when Cole wouldn't ask Alison to give up her child so she could stay in the country. Both actors who play Luisa & Vik are good - I just thought they were written as ciphers - kind of stand-ins for Cole & Helen where Alison & Noah used to be. 

Re MT's nervous energy that @Growsonwalls mentioned, I think it's interesting looking at the scenes where that falls away - like when Alison has to crash at the California house. I like Tierney as an actress and I've always been a bit fascinated with the way the show portrays how Helen is seen vs. how she sees herself, more so than with the character of Alison.

On 9/1/2019 at 9:03 AM, Milburn Stone said:

The one thing I think was of value about Season 3 is how it eventually showed us that Noah feels responsibility and guilt for his mother's death (feelings which he doesn't deserve to feel, but hey, that's what people do), and how this may well have played into his willingly going to jail in place of Helen. (To finally get the punishment for manslaughter that he always subconsciously felt he deserved.)

To me, the euthanasia illustrated Noah's first major act of selfishness. Whatever our thoughts are regarding the ethics of the matter, Noah didn't kill his mother until her illness was going to keep him from going to college. I've debated since S3 which escape Noah was punishing himself for - the one from his mom or the one from Helen. 

[izabella]

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

So I'm really confused now. I came to think that the Noah perspective about scenes involving him was the way he'd written them in his "Fiction based on a true story" book, i.e. Alison being all flirty and sexual when he met her on the beach that first time and that her perspective (or the perspectives of others who share scenes with Noah) were the way things actually happened.  Events about which Noah knew nothing - for example when Helen went to visit Max and they had sex and Helen's scenes with Vik, Cole & Luisa, Cole visiting his dad's old girlfriend, etc,  were accurate, or were they? None of that was in Noah's book since he was not privy to any of it.  That's how I perceived it all, but that's not right either since we saw two perspectives about the night of Alison's death and Noah knew nothing about that. So now I'm making no sense and I've even more confused.

They are not scenes from the book, or the way Noah wrote them.  Throughout the series, we have seen scenes from the individual perspectives of each of the characters.  When they show the title card before each segment (i.e., Part 1:  Noah), it means that entire segment is only the way that Noah saw it.  So that's why we will then see differences in the way a different person perceived the same scene (i.e., Part 2: Helen).