S07.E13: Their Last Bow

[Loandbehold]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA - almost every other tv show has the main characters fall in love or at least hook up at some point, so it's been nice to have the Holmes/Watson relationship stay strictly platonic. You can love and support someone without developing romantic feelings or having sex. The last male/female friendship I remember seeing on tv that never wavered in staying platonic was Veronica and Wallace on Veronica Mars. Like Joan and Sherlock, it was clear that they loved each other and would risk their lives for each other but it was also clear that they were never interested in having a romantic relationship or having sex with each other, which I really loved.

True, but Wallace was given  girlfriend in season 2 and basically sidelined in season 3. He and Veronica didn't really work on many cases that season. I don't believe it was to keep them apart, since Veronica almost always had a boyfriend those two seasons, but Wallace was no longer what I would call a main character in terms of his interactions w/ Veronica.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?  Perhaps he set up some sort of fancy CCTV operation to watch the grave (but in a public cemetery?).

Oh well, it doesn't make sense, but it worked and somehow he saw the signal so...

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

Maybe he had Anoymous watching the headstone. I thought, when it happened, that it was simply that he had some kind of tech in it that would send a signal.

Breaking the headstone did seem needlessly dramatic to me. And, if that's the signal, then I think it likely the headstone was not actually granite.

7 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Isn't headstone-smashing on public property a felony?

Is it public property? Except for Veteran's Cemeteries, aren't they privately owned for the most part? The two graveyards in my small town aren't owned by the city or county, but I don't exactly have any experience - except for Veteran's cemeteries - at this point.

You have to pay for the grave and stones, so it would seem to me (with absolutely no knowledge), that it's personal property if it's your family member's stone. Or at least, that it could be argued that way.

@marina707, I was going to quote you and add my two cents - but then I realized you said everything I might have said, but better.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Clanstarling

[Loandbehold]

8 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Isn't headstone-smashing on public property a felony?

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Only if it is classified as a hate crime....

49 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Is it public property? Except for Veteran's Cemeteries, aren't they privately owned for the most part? The two graveyards in my small town aren't owned by the city or county, but I don't exactly have any experience - except for Veteran's cemeteries - at this point.

As Paigow said, it probably wouldn't be a felony unless it was considered a hate crime. And, even then, I believe in many states, hate crimes raise the level of the offense so, if the offense(es) would otherwise be violations or low misdemeanors, it might only rise to a high misdemeanor. Most likely this would be considered trespassing and vandalism which aren't felonies. Also, Sherlock wants to dig up Moriarty's grave, which is probably a greater offense then smashing a headstone. 

I believe that Potter's Fields are also public property.

[Clanstarling]

39 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

As Paigow said, it probably wouldn't be a felony unless it was considered a hate crime. And, even then, I believe in many states, hate crimes raise the level of the offense so, if the offense(es) would otherwise be violations or low misdemeanors, it might only rise to a high misdemeanor. Most likely this would be considered trespassing and vandalism which aren't felonies. Also, Sherlock wants to dig up Moriarty's grave, which is probably a greater offense then smashing a headstone. 

I believe that Potter's Fields are also public property.

I'm sure you're right about Potter's Fields. I don't believe we have one (small town), but New York would, of course. And yeah, digging up the grave would be far more serious.

[atlantaloves]

God what a wonderful ending to a delightful series. I shall miss it so. The ending was perfect even if it was insane. Who cares!

[beadgirl]

I've said it before, but: I'm really going to miss this show. This has become my absolute favorite depiction of Sherlock, and unlike others <cough>House<coughCOUGH!>Sherlock<cough> it stayed true to itself throughout. Love that Sherlock was difficult and pickly but not an actual asshole, love the devotion and respect between him and Joan (she was his true equal, not a hanger-on, and he treated her as such), love the way they handled Irene Adler/Moriarty, sigh.

The music was good, too! Discovered some great songs and artists through the show.

[mandigirl]

Wonderful end to a wonderful series! After some clunker series finales recently, I was talking with friends about whether I had EVER seen a good series finale. Question answered. This is one of the most satisfying series finales I've seen. I too loved the Season 6 finale, but I'm glad Sherlock and Joan ultimately ended up in NYC where they belong. A happy 'irregular' family, lol. 

Bravo to everyone involved from the awesome actors to the truly skilled writing team. Few shows can say that they've had not one but TWO fantastic series finales!

I was completely faked-out by the cemetery scene. I was concerned because House (which is also considered a Sherlock variation) had a similar story arc in its series finale with Wilson, with a much less happy end. I wondered if Elementary was going the same route. Made the end scene at the precinct even more lovely.

Does any one know if Watson being sick is some sort of canon? Otherwise, maybe this was yet another shout-out by the Elementary writers. 

My favorite moments were definitely Sherlock finally meeting Arthur, the Cpt Gregson scene and the heartwarming ending scene. Never shipped them, but IMO the writers did give a nod to the shippers at the end with Sherlock and Joan negotiating child care like a married couple, the soul gazing and of course then that perfect final line which is somewhat gray in the best possible way.

With all the amazing moments over the years in this show, I'm so happy and grateful that it got a fitting finale.  

[roseha]

I don’t know how much to add to what’s already been said here, but I just rewatched the finale (much better at an earlier hour to catch everything!) and I just have to agree that everyone involved did such a moving and accomplished job of pulling off a finale that remained true to the show, true to its origins and even deeper than the finale of season Six.  It’s true that the fakeouts would have upset me had I been watching live - though I never believed they’d kill off either Sherlock or Joan - but everything that was included moved the resolution further, with Sherlock reaffirming his dedication to Joan.  It occurs to me that Gregson asking Sherlock about the one person he loves points out the difference between love (for Joan) and what was an obsession for Moriarty.

I noticed even more details, from Lucy conveying Joan’s nervousness in front of TV cameras, to JLM portraying Sherlock’s odd defensiveness on first reappearing, more understandable perhaps when we find out that he did not want to reveal he had relapsed.

I am sure Marcus will be taking them back (he’d do it just for Joan!) but it provided a great setup for Sherlock’s final line.

Also, how ironic and fitting that Odin was taken down by the records of his own evil internet kingdom. It’s not so easy to shred that stuff, or as Law and Order Criminal Intent put it 14 years ago:  Now it’s out there, forever.

What a great ending for a great show, congratulation to all involved.

[MisterGlass]

2 hours ago, mandigirl said:

Does any one know if Watson being sick is some sort of canon? Otherwise, maybe this was yet another shout-out by the Elementary writers.

Not exactly.  Watson in the stories survived a gunshot wound and illness before he met Sherlock.  That's why he was retired out of the army.  As shown here, you may be right, and Watson's illness is a House shout-out.

[Ceindreadh]

21 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am sure if a grave site is vandalized, the cemetary would notify someone in the family of that fact. They probably gave Sherlock a call to let him know.

I can’t exactly see them having Sherlock’s info as a point of contact, given you know that he’s supposed to be dead. (I was going to say ‘occupying the plot’ but then they obviously never found a body).

Given that Sherlock’s next of kin had pedeceased him, i presume it was Watson who made all the arrangements so if anybody was to be notified it would be her.

17 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

As Paigow said, it probably wouldn't be a felony unless it was considered a hate crime. And, even then, I believe in many states, hate crimes raise the level of the offense so, if the offense(es) would otherwise be violations or low misdemeanors, it might only rise to a high misdemeanor. Most likely this would be considered trespassing and vandalism which aren't felonies. Also, Sherlock wants to dig up Moriarty's grave, which is probably a greater offense then smashing a headstone. 

I believe that Potter's Fields are also public property.

Who does a gravestone belong to? If Joan (as is likely) was responsible for the funeral arrangements then would the gravestone be technically her property and she could demolish it at will.  Which brings up another question, why have a grave at all when they couldn’t have found a body. 

After last weeks ep I was in two minds as to whether Joan was in on the plot or not. On the one hand, as we saw, Sherlock did need her help to pull it off and I don’t think he’d have wanted to hurt her by letting her think he was dead.

On the other hand, I didn’t think he’d want to put her in the position of lying to the police and possibly perjuring herself at Odin’s trial.

I wonder if it was Gregson (after Joan told him the truth) who persuaded the DA not to bring charges for Sherlock’s death so that Joan wouldn’t have to perjure herself at a trial.

[Trey]

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I wonder if it was Gregson (after Joan told him the truth) who persuaded the DA not to bring charges for Sherlock’s death so that Joan wouldn’t have to perjure herself at a trial. 

Probably.  They wouldn't want to prosecute, never mind convict, him for Sherlock's murder just in case Sherlock came to life again - which, of course, he did. But the investigation opened up Odin's can of worms so they had more than enough to convict him with.  148 years was a pretty good sentence for him🙂

[johntfs]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:55 AM, Trey said:

Seems like McNally is basically a good guy even though he was led astray by Reichenbach.

McNally is a bit like Sherlock in that he sees his profession as a calling.  And McNally's profession is to protect the USA and its citizens.  Reichenbach was giving McNally a way to prevent these horrible mass-killings we've seen in the news so often, perhaps even to prevent the next 9-11.  Of course McNally would want that weapon in his arsenal.

Over the three year time jump, McNally saw how flawed that weapon actually was and was likely reluctantly grateful to Sherlock for taking Reichenbach down before the man could potentially bring the NSA down with him.  Beyond that, McNally saw Sherlock doing good work that helped him.  Of course he'd want Sherlock to do even more good work to help him.

[jhlipton]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:23 PM, marina707 said:

pretty much every procedural show with male/female cops/detectives/whatevers [who are both single and interested in the opposite sex] has relied on a 'will they/won't they' dynamic between the two; this is literally the only example I can think of where they didn't).

I know you're talking about Moriarty, but I've felt since the first season finale that Joan has essentially replaced her as The Woman to Sherlock (or not even necessarily as The Woman because that title seems to focus, at least in my interpretation, on her gender/status as a love interest, but rather Most Important Person). Obviously in an entirely different way as the types of feelings he had for the two of them were very different, but I felt like his feelings for Watson had definitely become stronger by the end than his feelings for Moriarty had once been.

So much good in this comment, but I'm just going to respond to these two.

1) Brooklyn 9-9 isn't a "procedural" but they bypassed the "will they/won't they" by having the romantic couple solidly (and fabulously) in love by the second season.  This show should be the "anti-Moonlighting" of how to write a romantic pairing.

2) It could be both: Watson is The Most Important Person, while Moriarty remains The Woman -- the only one Sherlock has romantic feelings for.

On 8/17/2019 at 9:26 PM, UncleChuck said:

So Joan's secret signal to contact Sherlock (in hiding) was to smash his headstone?  So how would he know that if he was solving mysteries in Tuscany, Tibet, Rome and wherever?

I would imagine the New York Post (if not the New York Times) would have a headline about a "Famous Detective's Headstone Vandalized".  And both papers are fairly easily available in most countries.

[kay1864]

Possible ACD shoutout from Joan: “I’m pretty sure you’re going to live forever.”

Anyone else think Marcus’s gut punch was a bit much? Dude could have been a little more understanding and a little less self-centered. 

[marina707]

To the people who mentioned House, I thought that as well but completely forgot about it in my massive last post. I wondered if the cancer diagnosis was maybe a reference to that show, although it ended much differently.

On 8/18/2019 at 9:56 AM, Clanstarling said:

@marina707, I was going to quote you and add my two cents - but then I realized you said everything I might have said, but better.

Thanks, but I'm sure everyone would be interested in your thoughts if you feel like sharing them! 🙂

21 hours ago, mandigirl said:

My favorite moments were definitely Sherlock finally meeting Arthur, the Cpt Gregson scene and the heartwarming ending scene. Never shipped them, but IMO the writers did give a nod to the shippers at the end with Sherlock and Joan negotiating child care like a married couple, the soul gazing and of course then that perfect final line which is somewhat gray in the best possible way.

It's interesting because it's certainly possible to interpret certain aspects of the relationship as romantic. That whole "I'm so glad I fell into your orbit" scene comes to mind, and I think I said in a post on an episode last season that I felt like there was a romantic sort of undertone to the relationship, it's just not in a conventional/traditional sort of way. I was thinking about how everything was always "we" and "our" with them (like the "do we still own a shovel?" line in the finale just as one example, and the discussion early in the season about whether or not they were going to stay in New York or go back to London, but there have been multiple similar lines throughout the show), and in a lot of ways they were like a married couple. Like I mentioned earlier, the way their relationship was treated as basically the same as the Captain's marriage in that conversation Sherlock had with him, and then if you throw in a kid... There's definitely more intertwined-ness and commitment to, essentially, having a life together that most people don't do with people who are "just" friends, which I can definitely see being interpreted as romantic (people have different ideas of what constitutes romance, and whether or not sex is a requirement, so I can see how there's a bit of room for interpretation depending on your own personal definition of those types of things).

Also, I found another interview with Rob Doherty that had this quote: "Sherlock had certainly emphasized he wasn’t [meant to be a parent], more than once. But it’s one thing to say all those things and it’s another for your partner to come home with a child one day" which I found interesting and seems to fit in with that kind of partners/sort-of-a-couple/sort-of-romantic-but-definitely-not-in-any-typical-sort-of-way dynamic and points to (at least in my interpretation of it) them raising Arthur together, which I know a lot of people had wondered about.

So I don't know, I agree that there's definitely a lot of gray to the relationship because it doesn't fit neatly into any specific box and it's kind of hard to define/categorize. It's kind of in between friendship and romance (at least if you judge by how those things are typically portrayed in media). However you interpret it, though, to me at least it's super interesting just because it's so different than anything else in media (and of course the actors played a huge role in how the whole dynamic came across).

19 hours ago, roseha said:

It occurs to me that Gregson asking Sherlock about the one person he loves points out the difference between love (for Joan) and what was an obsession for Moriarty.

Good point! That's basically the way I see it, although put in a much more succinct way (brevity is not my strong suit, clearly!)

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

1) Brooklyn 9-9 isn't a "procedural" but they bypassed the "will they/won't they" by having the romantic couple solidly (and fabulously) in love by the second season.  This show should be the "anti-Moonlighting" of how to write a romantic pairing.

2) It could be both: Watson is The Most Important Person, while Moriarty remains The Woman -- the only one Sherlock has romantic feelings for.

Yes! I love B99 too, and that's one of the few romances on a show I watch that I think is really well done and not too cookie-cutter/predictable or just lazy/badly written (I love the main romance on The Good Place as well so maybe I just like the way Mike Schur does romance! I've also heard good things about the ones on Parks & Rec though I haven't seen it).

I think I was kind of conflating the two in my head because I feel like before Watson came along, he was singularly focused on Moriarty and she was both The Woman and The Most Important Person, but then eventually Watson replaced her as the person he cared about the most.

It makes sense what you said, though, that Moriarty would be The Woman because she was basically just the love interest before becoming the villain/adversary, while Watson's role in his life ended up being larger than that (and gender wasn't really relevant with her) so I guess Most Important Person fits better (although I am curious what the relationship between this Sherlock and a hypothetical male Watson would've been like, and if/how the dynamic would've differed).

Now that I think about it more, though, calling either of them The Woman seems pretty insulting when you consider where that title originally came from. (It's been a really long time since I read any of the ACD stories, but unless I'm remembering wrong, Irene was called The Woman in the story because she was "remarkable" for being able to outsmart him because obviously women weren't smart and when one was it was unusual and needed to be pointed out as some rare thing that hardly ever happens.) That's a whole different subject, though, and maybe I'm overthinking it.

And...I need to stop, I've gone on way too long again!

Edited August 19, 2019 by marina707
a couple typos

[jhlipton]

6 minutes ago, marina707 said:

I love B99 too, and that's one of the few romances on a show I watch that I think is really well done and not too cookie-cutter/predictable or just lazy/badly written (I love the main romance on The Good Place as well so maybe I just like the way Mike Schur does romance! I've also heard good things about the ones on Parks & Rec though I haven't seen it).

Jake could easily have written as the typical "man-boy" who never grows up or takes responsibility for anything.  But even before his relationship with Amy started, we could see that he took his job very seriously (for all his jokes).  Amy could easily have been written as the upright shrill "by the rules" woman.  But they went against stereotype and wrote these two as people who REALLY "got" their partner (their gifts to each other are always so perfect).

I'm 50/50 on Mike Shur.  I loved The Office and love B99, but couldn't stand P&R, and the ethics of The Good Place (Tahani is in The Bad Place for.. being bullied?  Doing good things for a "bad" reason?  I don't know -- the episode that showed her life put me off a show I was al;ready teetering on.)

15 minutes ago, marina707 said:

It makes sense what you said, though, that Moriarty would be The Woman because she was basically just the love interest before becoming the villain/adversary, while Watson's role in his life ended up being larger than that (and gender wasn't really relevant with her) so I guess Most Important Person fits better (although I am curious what the relationship between this Sherlock and a hypothetical male Watson would've been like, and how the dynamic would've differed).

One of the major problem this Sherlock has is that, to a certain extent, he still loves Adler, even as he detests Moriarty.  

I think this Sherlock and a male Watson would have been very much like every other version we've seen (save for cries for them to be romantically or sexually involved, since now  two attractive men can't be in a show without one or both being gay).  I'm very glad they gender-bent (and race-bent) Watson.

20 minutes ago, marina707 said:

I've gone on way too long again!

Inconceivable!!!

[MissLucas]

*phew* I was so worried that I would not like this that I put off watching it for days. So glad they managed to pull it off - that was lovely. I have a mental folder of shows that managed to get the final episode right and there are not many entries in there, so glad I can finally add another one.

I'll miss this show, I'll miss Watson's fabulous clothes, I'll miss the writers coming up with new ways for Sherlock to wake up Watson, I'll miss Lucy Liu and Johnny Lee Miller and the rest of the great cast and I'll miss the weekly discussions here.

Oh, dear - I normally just have tissues at hand when watching CTMW *sob*

[marina707]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Jake could easily have written as the typical "man-boy" who never grows up or takes responsibility for anything.  But even before his relationship with Amy started, we could see that he took his job very seriously (for all his jokes).  Amy could easily have been written as the upright shrill "by the rules" woman.  But they went against stereotype and wrote these two as people who REALLY "got" their partner (their gifts to each other are always so perfect).

I'm 50/50 on Mike Shur.  I loved The Office and love B99, but couldn't stand P&R, and the ethics of The Good Place (Tahani is in The Bad Place for.. being bullied?  Doing good things for a "bad" reason?  I don't know -- the episode that showed her life put me off a show I was al;ready teetering on.)

One of the major problem this Sherlock has is that, to a certain extent, he still loves Adler, even as he detests Moriarty.  

I think this Sherlock and a male Watson would have been very much like every other version we've seen (save for cries for them to be romantically or sexually involved, since now  two attractive men can't be in a show without one or both being gay).  I'm very glad they gender-bent (and race-bent) Watson.

Inconceivable!!!

Oh, yeah, The Good Place definitely had its issues as far as ethics and the rules of who got into the Bad Place and why, but I feel like they did a fairly good job of questioning/addressing that later on. (Your wording made me think you quit watching the show--sorry if I'm wrong about that!--so I don't want to get too into it, plus I know it's considered off topic in this thread!)

Yeah, I think the argument can definitely be made that part of him is still stuck on the idea of Irene, of who he thought she was, even though that person never really existed.

It's interesting because I'm not sure if that semi-romantic-whatever-depending-on-interpretation vibe would've still been there if it were two guys. I feel like the dynamic here is different than the other adapatations I've seen, and I don't know how much of that is based on gender or if it's just the way these specific writers chose to write these versions of the characters and it would've been the same if they'd both been guys. It actually kind of makes me wonder if they would've gotten them together since as far as I've seen, Rob Doherty seemed to want to go against what was expected with the characters, and just as this type of relationship between male/female characters is rare, a show where the two main male characters are in a relationship is also rare (or non-existent, I can't think of one although maybe there's one I don't know of), and I totally get people wanting more LGBT representation, but I guess we'll never know! (And I'm afraid this is getting off topic again since it's based entirely on a hypothetical situation!)

Ha, well hopefully my ramblings are at least semi-interesting!

Edited August 19, 2019 by marina707
typo

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, marina707 said:

Thanks, but I'm sure everyone would be interested in your thoughts if you feel like sharing them! 🙂

That's very kind. But you truly did cover all my points - and I was too lazy to come up with different words. 😉

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Anyone else think Marcus’s gut punch was a bit much?

Yeah, I didn't like that. Use your words, Marcus!

RE McNally: I thought he told Sherlock that he's the one who gave the tech to Odin. Did I mis-hear that?

[kay1864]

2 minutes ago, possibilities said:

RE McNally: I thought he told Sherlock that he's the one who gave the tech to Odin. Did I mis-hear that?

 Well, the phone- and  PC-neutralizing tech anyway. The one that makes them all go bluescreen. Not all of Odin’s tech. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Possible ACD shoutout from Joan: “I’m pretty sure you’re going to live forever.”

Yes, definitely a reference to the infinite longevity of the character of Sherlock, and also poking a bit of self-referential fun at the last episodes  —probably my favorite line in the finale.
  
  

4 HOURS AGO, KAY1864 SAID:

Anyone else think Marcus’s gut punch was a bit much? Dude could have been a little more understanding and a little less self-centered. 

12 MINUTES AGO, POSSIBILITIES SAID:

Yeah, I didn't like that. Use your words, Marcus!

Yes, the gut punch alone would make me rate the season 6 finale above this one, especially since JLM so realistically emoted the effect of a real gut punch rather than a TV/movie gut punch.

I know ostensibly Marcus punched Sherlock for letting Marcus grieve for so long before revealing his continued existence, but it also felt like final retribution for Sherlock being the reason Marcus got shot in the hand several seasons ago—a nearly disabling, career-ending injury—which seemed all but forgotten for at least the last year. 

[dargosmydaddy]

19 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Anyone else think Marcus’s gut punch was a bit much? Dude could have been a little more understanding and a little less self-centered. 

I thought it was completely out of character. Although it did just dawn on me that he was being considerate in punching him in the stomach rather than the face after his concussion issues...

[paigow]

25 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I thought it was completely out of character. Although it did just dawn on me that he was being considerate in punching him in the stomach rather than the face after his concussion issues...

Gregson gut punched Sherlock a few seasons ago in a cop bar.....So, except for Capt. Harvey Weinstein, every captain gets to punch Sherlock in a public setting.... 

[paigow]

On 8/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, UncleChuck said:

But I must say--how strong is Joan Watson that she can break a huge chunk off of a granite headstone with one swing of a shovel?  A SHOVEL??

She used a sledgehammer....

[paigow]

Was the painting sent by Moriarty supposed to be the view from the Italian balcony? 

[paigow]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:44 AM, Ceindreadh said:

Which brings up another question, why have a grave at all when they couldn’t have found a body. 

My law degree from Dick Wolf University says the D.A. can file murder charges without a body....so having a body-less grave is not a stretch...

[Trey]

27 minutes ago, paigow said:

Was the painting sent by Moriarty supposed to be the view from the Italian balcony? 

I didn't get a very good look at it but it seems likely - just letting Joan/Sherlock know that someone knew Sherlock was still alive, although it turned out to be McNally rather than Moriarty.  Maybe he commissioned Moriarty to paint it😄

[roseha]

I guess I should mention this here, since it's the finale of course, but while I really wish they hadn't killed off Morland, I understand why he wasn't brought back as a surprise, Sherlock's grief was so deep and genuine from Miller, and I guess you can only have so many fake-outs in one finale!

To tell the truth, before the last two shows I was afraid that one of the regulars would be killed, not so much Sherlock or Joan since it would be against the tradition I thought, but maybe Gregson or Bell since they are not so much "canon" and I was really afraid of that, but I'm so glad they didn't go there.

[LisaM]

Fabulous ending to an excellent series. It will be missed! 

I loved the final words and was thrilled to see Joan with her black hair again. Having the theme song playing while Sherlock and Joan walked into Captain Bell's (!!) office was a great touch. Glad that we learned that Marcus is married with a child. Sad to hear about Paige but so interesting to see Gregson with Paige's granddaughter. 

Arthur was adorable and I'm chuckling at Sherlock co-parenting the boy. 

Definitely one of the all-time best series finales. 

[emma675]

I had to wait to watch the last 3 episodes due to the CBS fight with Comcast (?)--they finally put them into on demand.

I actually loved Morland so I was upset at his death. Sherlock is the only one left of his family (minus his family with Joan, Arthur, Kitty, and Archie) and that struck me deeply. Plus, Morland was so unabashedly a proper bastard and I loved that. 

I started crying when Sherlock confronted Joan about her cancer diagnosis and asked if she was going to let him leave without saying anything. JLM killed me in that scene and I loved that Joan was the one resisting the hug instead of Sherlock for a change. I knew the funeral scene was a fake out but I still cried anyway.

I will miss this little series so much.

[gail56]

On 8/19/2019 at 2:32 PM, kay1864 said:

Anyone else think Marcus’s gut punch was a bit much? Dude could have been a little more understanding and a little less self-centered. 

I don't know if it was intentional, but as one who watched the BBC Sherlock series, Marcus's reaction reminded me of Watson's in that series. When that Sherlock showed up alive, Watson kept beating him up for not telling him! Then when Gregson hugged Sherlock after he expected to get punched, that was also Lestrade's reaction to hug that  Sherlock when he showed up alive.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, gail56 said:

I don't know if it was intentional, but as one who watched the BBC Sherlock series, Marcus's reaction reminded me of Watson's in that series. When that Sherlock showed up alive, Watson kept beating him up for not telling him! Then when Gregson hugged Sherlock after he expected to get punched, that was also Lestrade's reaction to hug that  Sherlock when he showed up alive.

I was reminded of that too. Anyone know what happens in the books, when Sherlock is resurrected after Reichenbach Falls?

[Driad]

7 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Anyone know what happens in the books, when Sherlock is resurrected after Reichenbach Falls?

The story is "The Empty House."  Holmes wears a disguise ...

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Driad said:

The story is "The Empty House."  Holmes wears a disguise ...

Nothing comes up for me. All I really want to know is whether Watson punches Sherlock. 🙂

[jhlipton]

3 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Nothing comes up for me. All I really want to know is whether Watson punches Sherlock. 🙂

From the link above:
 

Quote

I moved my head to look at the cabinet behind me. When I turned again Sherlock Holmes was standing smiling at me across my study table. I rose to my feet, stared at him for some seconds in utter amazement, and then it appears that I must have fainted for the first and the last time in my life. Certainly a grey mist swirled before my eyes, and when it cleared I found my collar-ends undone and the tingling after-taste of brandy upon my lips. Holmes was bending over my chair, his flask in his hand.

“My dear Watson,” said the well-remembered voice, “I owe you a thousand apologies. I had no idea that you would be so affected.”

I gripped him by the arm.

“Holmes!” I cried. “Is it really you? Can it indeed be that you are alive? Is it possible that you succeeded in climbing out of that awful abyss?”

“Wait a moment,” said he. “Are you sure that you are really fit to discuss things? I have given you a serious shock by my unnecessarily dramatic reappearance.”

“I am all right, but indeed, Holmes, I can hardly believe my eyes. Good heavens, to think that you—you of all men—should be standing in my study!” Again I gripped him by the sleeve and felt the thin, sinewy arm beneath it. “Well, you’re not a spirit, anyhow,” said I. “My dear chap, I am overjoyed to see you. Sit down and tell me how you came alive out of that dreadful chasm.”

No punches thrown.

[Clanstarling]

9 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

From the link above:
 

No punches thrown.

Thanks. I'm not sure why the link didn't pull anything up for me.

[Driad]

3 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm not sure why the link didn't pull anything up for me.

It should have pulled up a PDF.  There is nothing at the top of the first page so you need to scroll down.

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, Driad said:

It should have pulled up a PDF.  There is nothing at the top of the first page so you need to scroll down.

Oh, I know it should opened up a PDF - the link was clear on that front. It seems to have opened for @jhlipton. But for me the screen was totally blank, with no scroll bars to scroll down, and the scroll key on the mouse didn't reveal anything. It's probably a browser setting or something to do with my security software.  Ah, I just figured it out. This browser (unlike my usual browser) isn't set up to open PDFs within the browser, but saves them in the download folder. Now I have three copies. 😄

Anyway, thank you for sending the link. 🙂

Edited August 22, 2019 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Driad said:

The story is "The Empty House."  Holmes wears a disguise

1 HOUR AGO, CLANSTARLING SAID:

All I really want to know is whether Watson punches Sherlock. 🙂

1 HOUR AGO, JHLIPTON SAID:

From the link above:
No punches thrown.

Ah! Much better! I hated the punch.

QUOTE

Again I gripped him by the sleeve and felt the thin, sinewy arm beneath it. 

If I were reading this in context, I would definitely picture Jonny Lee Miller's arm (with tattoos).

Instead of the punch, I wish Marcus had maybe grabbed Sherlock's arm and squeezed it as if to be sure he was really there. Or at least maybe have Marcus apologize after the punch, saying he didn't think he was really there.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Oh, I know it should opened up a PDF - the link was clear on that front. It seems to have opened for @jhlipton. But for me the screen was totally blank, with no scroll bars to scroll down, and the scroll key on the mouse didn't reveal anything. It's probably a browser setting or something to do with my security software.  Ah, I just figured it out. This browser (unlike my usual browser) isn't set up to open PDFs within the browser, but saves them in the download folder. Now I have three copies. 😄

So I'm not the only one with security apps/settings that don't trust me to not click something stupid when I want to open a PDF in the browser without saving it. I wish there would just be a warning with an option to override.

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So I'm not the only one with security apps/settings that don't trust me to not click something stupid when I want to open a PDF in the browser without saving it. I wish there would just be a warning with an option to override.

There are settings you can change - and being that I routinely do this at work (AND troubleshoot it for the staff at my organization) I felt pretty stupid that I hadn't checked. I blame it on shutting off my work brain at home. LOL.

Each browser has a different path to changing those options, which can make it frustrating and confusing.

[MisterGlass]

In case anyone is interested, the stories are also available free on Project Gutenberg.  The Return of Sherlock Holmes, which contains The Empty House, comes in several formats.

[kay1864]

4 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

In case anyone is interested, the stories are also available free on Project Gutenberg.  The Return of Sherlock Holmes, which contains The Empty House, comes in several formats.

All volumes available for free download on Kindle as well, since they’re in the public domain.  I read them years ago, expecting dry, erudite English stories. Instead they were quite exciting and interesting. I did find myself looking up the names for horse-drawn conveyances (dogcart, hansom, etc), but that wasn’t really necessary to enjoy the stories. 

[LennieBriscoe]

Well,  the equivalent would be if Inspector Lestrade had gut-punched SH post-RF. Yeah, no; not exactly the style then!

Also,  why does anyone think this show had any "shout-outs" to "House"? Was there an actor connection I missed?

paigow, I'm sure you meant to say that you matriculated at Hudson University! 😉 

[dargosmydaddy]

38 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Also,  why does anyone think this show had any "shout-outs" to "House"? Was there an actor connection I missed?

House was also supposed to be a modern day Sherlock Holmes, albeit with different names/ occupations. House was Sherlockian, and his friend Wilson was his Watson.

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

and his friend Wilson was his Watson.

And a doctor!

[LennieBriscoe]

I forgot that Google is my friend! In this case, a very good one!

https://house.fandom.com/wiki/Gregory_House_and_Sherlock_Holmes_connections

[paigow]

12 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

paigow, I'm sure you meant to say that you matriculated at Hudson University! 😉 

The extraordinarily high mortality rate among students & faculty scared me off...so I chose DWU

[Trey]

Great article, @LennieBriscoe; thanks for posting the link.

[tvfanatic13]

It took me until today to work up the courage to watch. What a fantastic ending! However, I will need to rewatch since I spent a lot of the time looking for Clyde :(