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S01.E06: The Next Episode

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On Halloween, Rue (Zendaya) worries about her reliance on Jules (Hunter Schafer), while Jules starts exhibiting concerning behavior. McKay (Algee Smith) questions his future in football. After a weird night with McKay, Cassie (Sydney Sweeney) spends time with Daniel (Keean Johnson). Business is booming for Kat (Barbie Ferreira) as she continues to push Ethan (Austin Abrams) away. Nate (Jacob Elordi) comes up with a plan to get his life back on track.

Written by Sam Levinson; directed by Pippa Bianco.

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Damn poor Mckay. Between his dad, his broken football dreams, what the frat dudes did to him and having a ho for a girlfriend. His father taught him to hold his emotions in but eventually he's gonna break down.

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I think McKay would be a better match with Cassie's sister but I suspect her of being secretly in love with Rue. 

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Sad, if Roy/Troy was educated in the classics he'd have known that Rue's threat was bullshit.

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Lexi, don't listen to all those jerks, that Bob Ross costume was wonderful.

Jules was unraveling at that Halloween party, but she sure looked great while doing it.

Nate + jail is my OTP; sadly, this episode made that seem less likely.

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4 hours ago, DiabLOL said:

I think McKay would be a better match with Cassie's sister but I suspect her of being secretly in love with Rue. 

She's even younger than Cassie, he needs to find a girl his own age. But yes, I'm pulling for Lexi being into Rue.

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The best thing in this episode was Lexi dressed as Bob Ross, and everything else was just a big ball of misery.  Could someone who is digging this show give me a reason why I should like these kids?

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8 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

Sad, if Roy/Troy was educated in the classics he'd have known that Rue's threat was bullshit.

I was like, he's never seen The Wire! But then I realized how young these kids are - The Wire started airing the year after they were born.

9 hours ago, mommalib said:

Damn poor Mckay. Between his dad, his broken football dreams, what the frat dudes did to him and having a ho for a girlfriend. His father taught him to hold his emotions in but eventually he's gonna break down.

I found the stuff with McKay's dad pretty interesting. The "doing a whole-ass practice before practice" stuff was like ... damn, but the part about channeling his aggression on the field was interesting because on the field (or court, or baseball diamond or ring or track) is the only place a Black male's aggression is celebrated. The n-word is literally a fighting word, so I don't blame McKay at ALL for fighting that piece of shit who called him that on the field, but that can come at an extreme cost in the predominantly white circles in which McKay seems to move. I suspect McKay's dad knows that.

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6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I was like, he's never seen The Wire! But then I realized how young these kids are - The Wire started airing the year after they were born.

And yet their Halloween costumes were from “True Romance” (a 26 year old movie) and another girl was Jodie Foster in “Taxi Driver” (an over 40 year old movie).  I know these are cult movies with fans of all ages, but come on.

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10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I was like, he's never seen The Wire! But then I realized how young these kids are - The Wire started airing the year after they were born.

and the line about using pliers on him (paraphrased poorly by me) was from Pulp Fiction.

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5 hours ago, SHD said:

And yet their Halloween costumes were from “True Romance” (a 26 year old movie) and another girl was Jodie Foster in “Taxi Driver” (an over 40 year old movie).  I know these are cult movies with fans of all ages, but come on.

I had no idea true romance was popular with high school kids today. I loved that movie when it came out when I was in high school!

i absolutely love this show. The music is phenomenal and really sets the tone. There’s just a great energy to euphoria even though the material is very heavy. I find myself rewatching the episodes multiple times.

im genuinely interested in all is the main characters and the supporting ones. 

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Did they rape McKay?

Or just emasculate him in front of Cassie?

So Nate is able to manipulate people to get himself out of trouble by blackmailing that older guy and Jules.  Meanwhile there’s a lot of evidence against him, like all the bodily injuries the guy has and Nate being in possession of child porn which he used to blackmail Jules.

The detectives were skeptical of both witnesses.

Just about every kid is skilled at gaslighting and manipulating others including adults.  But Nate shouldn’t be getting away with it unless every cop and adult in that town is dumb.

Most of these kids don’t seem to be big into academics.  The real smart ones like Kat and Nate can manipulate people but they don’t seem to be driven towards conventional goals.

Many of them may be like the guy Kat fucked, the guy who peaked in high school.

Nate will probably end up working for his dad and Kat may  become an author of self help books.

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13 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

I had no idea true romance was popular with high school kids today. I loved that movie when it came out when I was in high school!

I don't think it's popular with teenagers today. Just like any cult movie, there will be a few who love it. I appreciated that she actually had to explain it to most of the other kids. Even Rue and Jules were dressed as characters from a movie that came out before they were born.

Which is totally normal, of course! I went to costume parties in the mid-90s where kids dressed as the Godfather, Bonnie & Clyde, Death from Seventh Seal, etc. Kids love looking like they know about a cool thing no one else does.

I still find Lexi, Cassie, Rue, and Jules all very sympathetic. And the poor guy with the crush on Kat, I have no idea what his name is. Kat's starting to lose me, though. McKay is on thin ice.

Oh and the drug dealer! I forget his name, but despite all there is against him, he's hard not to like.

I really don't understand how Nate expected Tyler's story to be believed. So no cops had questions about his injuries? Jules didn't mention that the guy she saw in the shadows had a big fat neck brace on?

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Anyone watch the interviews with the cast members on HBO Go?

They call it Spotlight or someth8ng like that.  The actress playing Jules really coms off well in how she sees the character.

They all seem pretty enthusiastic about their roles.  Looks like the show runner is featuring the back stories of each of them, which gives these young actors an opportunity to show their chops.

The guy playing McKay was really into the interview.  Camera kept repeatedly cutting to his hands, which he was rubbing together as he talked about his character.

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Did they rape McKay?

Or just emasculate him in front of Cassie?

I believe there was no actual penetration, unless there was some foreign object used, but I didn't get that impression  This show doesn't shy away from being graphic, so if such a thing occurred I would imagine the implication would have been expressed more vividly.  It was a violent assault nonetheless, and at least one or more of the frat brothers were stripped down to their tighty whities, and one or more of them appeared to be mounting McKay, so I presume they simulated anal sex with him, perhaps some dry humping.

The two characters I find most intriguing at this point in the series are Kat and whatever the drug dealer's name is.

Kat because I totally buy her arc - the effect of being an overweight child/teen on her social/sexual development and self-esteem, her discovery of her female sexual power and how she can be desired (not necessarily in a healthy way) at any size, and her ongoing promiscuity which she believes is her controlling and exploiting older males, as opposed to her own exploitation, to the extreme of rejecting more conventional romance/emotional relationships with appropriate partners her own age.

The drug dealer is intriguing because he sure doesn't act like any drug dealer I've ever seen in any other entertainment medium (I don't know any drug dealers in real life).  I just have so many questions about him.  The dealer with a conscience?  Why is he so close to Rue and why is he so protective of her that he refuses to even supply her anymore?  Generally not good for business.  In fact, getting addicts addicted so they desperately keep coming back for more IS the business model (c.f. Phillip Morris).  What makes Rue a special case?  He hangs out at the high school parties but looks a few years older.  What's that about?  I'd also love to get the back story on his little sidekick, whom I presume is his brother.  Where are their parents?

I would love to get a character prologue on his story before the end of the season but I doubt it will happen as there are two episodes left and next week's prologue is about Cassie.  I wonder who is left to highlight for the episode 8 prologue - the dealer seems like a secondary character overall.

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5 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I don't think it's popular with teenagers today. Just like any cult movie, there will be a few who love it. I appreciated that she actually had to explain it to most of the other kids. Even Rue and Jules were dressed as characters from a movie that came out before they were born.

Who were Rue and Jules dressed as?  And Kat??  I didn't hear her explanation. 

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2 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Who were Rue and Jules dressed as?  And Kat??  I didn't hear her explanation. 

Rue and Jules were dressed as Romeo and Juliet from the party scene in Baz Luhrmann's 1996 version.

I don't think Kat named the movie. Something about someone who dresses as a nun to go on a revenge killing spree. Sounded like a more obscure pulp film.

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2 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Rue and Jules were dressed as Romeo and Juliet from the party scene in Baz Luhrmann's 1996 version.

I don't think Kat named the movie. Something about someone who dresses as a nun to go on a revenge killing spree. Sounded like a more obscure pulp film.

Well they fucked that up, Leo was wearing a knight costume for that scene. I remember it from seeing it in theaters when it came out.

BF76A25E-3BA6-48EB-BEC3-50C306E216D0.jpeg

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8 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I don't think it's popular with teenagers today. Just like any cult movie, there will be a few who love it. I appreciated that she actually had to explain it to most of the other kids. Even Rue and Jules were dressed as characters from a movie that came out before they were born.

Which is totally normal, of course! I went to costume parties in the mid-90s where kids dressed as the Godfather, Bonnie & Clyde, Death from Seventh Seal, etc. Kids love looking like they know about a cool thing no one else does.

I still find Lexi, Cassie, Rue, and Jules all very sympathetic. And the poor guy with the crush on Kat, I have no idea what his name is. Kat's starting to lose me, though. McKay is on thin ice.

Oh and the drug dealer! I forget his name, but despite all there is against him, he's hard not to like.

I really don't understand how Nate expected Tyler's story to be believed. So no cops had questions about his injuries? Jules didn't mention that the guy she saw in the shadows had a big fat neck brace on?

Why is Mckay on thin ice? He's clearly a decent guy who has issues of his own that you would think people would be sympathetic to. He's not a scumbag like Nate or Daniel and he's not a drug dealer either.

Edited by mommalib
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18 hours ago, scrb said:

Did they rape McKay?

Or just emasculate him in front of Cassie?

I could be completely wrong, but my impression is that they did rape him -- or one of the guys did.   I am really not 100% sure, though.  I think it was on Facebook where I saw someone else asking the same question.   The way the scene was filmed left it kind of unclear for people, I guess.

I watched the scene a second time, trying to figure it out.   Wasn't there a super-quick shot of one of the guys with some sort of fake erect penis strapped to the front of his underwear?   It was something I didn't catch the first time, but I saw it the second time.  There appeared to be sort of phallic object pointing skyward.   And then we saw a guy (not sure if it was the same guy) on top of McKay. 

So I assumed we were supposed to believe that the person with the strapped-on object had penetrated McKay (unless I am just imagining it and I wasn't seeing what I thought I was seeing!).

But it's also possible that they just terrorized him and made him think they were about to rape him, and didn't actually penetrate him.  Either way, he was traumatized, humiliated, degraded and attacked.

Edited by TVFan17
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The Hollywood Reporter interviewed actor Algee Smith and got the straight poop on the hazing scene - at least what was intentioned to be portrayed.  It seems to align with my earlier impression above, although I fully agree that as filmed there is ambiguity as to what precisely is going on.

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1 hour ago, sd dude said:

The Hollywood Reporter interviewed actor Algee Smith and got the straight poop on the hazing scene - at least what was intentioned to be portrayed.  It seems to align with my earlier impression above, although I fully agree that as filmed there is ambiguity as to what precisely is going on.

Thank you for posting that, as that definitely clears it up in no uncertain terms!  If they were intending to make it hard to figure out what exactly happened, they did a good job of it.    I was definitely not sure, even after watching the scene twice, and knew I couldn't be the only one.

It was a harrowing scene, even if it was only supposed to be "play-humping" that was going on.

Edited by TVFan17
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On 7/22/2019 at 6:31 PM, SoWindsor said:

The music is phenomenal and really sets the tone.

I agree with you 100%. The music and the use of music in the program is outstanding. I thought the music in all of Episode 4 was especially excellent! In the most recent episode, I loved the use of the song "Smalltown Boy" by the group Bronski Beat, a new wave song from the '80's.

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6 hours ago, mommalib said:

Why is Mckay on thin ice? He's clearly a decent guy who has issues of his own that you would think people would be sympathetic to. He's not a scumbag like Nate or Daniel and he's not a drug dealer either.

Not the OP, but McKay both got my sympathy this episode, but also lost points, too. He certainly looks good in comparison to Nate - every guy does - but the way his attitude and feelings about Cassie were explained in the intro were pretty misogynistic.

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It‘s logic that TV characters use old reference because their speech was written by writers who want to put their memories in from their youth. A few years ago, it was all about the eighties, now that reference window moves and a few times, producers even allow young writers to write. But even then, it‘s age 25 to the „supposed“ 16 of the show, 10 years of difference. Seniority is a bad thing, but quite apparent here, you apparently need 10 years in Hollywood before you‘re allowed to produce something on your own.

On the show, it‘s clearly not a realistic one, but a fantasy. How concerned parents imagine their teens. Probably the only realistic one is Kats suitor with his premature ejaculation. But even he goes straight to giving head... Nevertheless, his insecurities strike me as more realistic than Nates sociopathy and violence. Kids just aren‘t that thought out in their life plans (at least I wasn‘t).

But that‘s okay, I like the story as escapism (being 33 myself), still I‘m not sure if the show is a good role model for teens, just as porn gets copied... It does help though that all actors look like they‘re 25 (and probably are, I know).

And agree, McKay could be a very good person, but the way he reacted to his girlfriends costume (go dress in something else) lost him a lot of points with me. I can understand why he didn‘t want to label her as girlfriend in front of Nate and his dad & how his dad fucked him up by trying to make his own fantasy come true and thereby blocking a healthy choice of college or other education.

Edited by hertolo
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McKay is a likeable guy as a human being. He has just been very disrespectful how he's treated Cassie multiple times. Its maddening to just see her roll over and take it instead of dumping his ass. She can do a hell of a lot better.

I love Lexi. She is my favorite character and the only one in the whole show who is not screwed up. I hope nothing bad happens to her because she doesn't deserve it. Poor girl is stuck with a horrible collection of f--ed up peers.

It took until this, the sixth episode, but Rue is finally experiencing sadness and consequences of her lifestyle. In the first five episodes, it seems like all the horrible things she did to herself and others just rolled off her back like teflon. Dealing with a screwed up Jules and her sister knocked her off her high horse. For the first time, I felt some sympathy for her. I had never seen Zendaya in any of her earlier work. With each new episode, I respect and value her more and more as an actress.

Nate is obviously a rotten, evil bastard. When Jules was being questioned about the truth of her story by the detective, that was the moment she should have told them EVERYTHING Nate did to her and everyone else. His threat to her regarding the "child porn" is complete B.S., but she is too stupid and scared to realize that. That was her chance to come clean and she blew it. Even Nate's scumbag father is now realizing that his son is a monster that he created and is starting to fear.

Fezco the "drug dealer with a heart of gold" could have been a cliche, but give the writers and the actor credit for bringing some depth to the character. I wonder if the guy has sleepless nights about the horrible things he does, since he does seem to have a conscience. At least even Rue has no desire to see her little sister follow her path, but look at Fezco using his 11 year old "brother" as a partner in crime. Does that bother him deep down or does he just bury it deep inside. I think Fezco was designed as a minor character, but if he gets popular or good feedback, I can see them giving him a bigger role in season 2.

Edited by BigDfromLA
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14 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Well they fucked that up, Leo was wearing a knight costume for that scene. I remember it from seeing it in theaters when it came out.

BF76A25E-3BA6-48EB-BEC3-50C306E216D0.jpeg

Ah. Well, for some reason I thought Rue was dressed as Romeo in that but I guess not. They didn't actually say that.

14 hours ago, mommalib said:

Why is Mckay on thin ice? He's clearly a decent guy who has issues of his own that you would think people would be sympathetic to. He's not a scumbag like Nate or Daniel and he's not a drug dealer either.

Just the Cassie stuff. Otherwise I like him.

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I agree that they might be laying the groundwork for Rue/Lexi romance, which I'm down for because Jules is cagey and exhausting. All this talk of Rue being a needy clinger picking Jules as her next addiction but at least she knows herself. Jules just seems desperate for attention but also oddly cold about it. For an ambiguously bisexual trans Manic Pixie Dream Girl, Jules sure is boring.

I have nothing else to say about Mckay other than his life makes me sad and he deserves better.

Kat's cruel treatment of her adorable crush Ethan continues to frustrate me, especially mocking him for being a virgin when she was a virgin what, a month ago or less? That kind of belittling wouldn't exactly put me in the mood to go down on her. You're not some sex goddess because you let old dudes jack off to you via Skype and then fucked a carnie. He was a trooper for trying. I know the narrative wants us to feel bad for Kat because she fears getting rejected again due to her weight, but she's just...such an asshole to him. And of course she ran away because she thought Ethan was stalling penetrating her because he finds her unsexy (which...ok he just ate you out) when in reality he was embarrassed about jizzing his pants. Gah! (Admittedly I don't understand why that was an obstacle - everything else is wet so who would really notice?)  

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1 hour ago, gesundheit said:

Ah. Well, for some reason I thought Rue was dressed as Romeo in that but I guess not. They didn't actually say that.

Not just you - I saw that written in an article too.  AND they did the underwater kissing scene from the movie and Jules was reciting lines too (which was eye-rolling).  They should have put Rue in the right costume.

15 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

I could be completely wrong, but my impression is that they did rape him -- or one of the guys did.   I am really not 100% sure, though.  I think it was on Facebook where I saw someone else asking the same question.   The way the scene was filmed left it kind of unclear for people, I guess.

Is this something teenagers do now, fake rape??  I remember fraternity guys getting hazed and there was NO WAY anyone would even pretend to rape someone (or actually rape them) in order to get into the fraternity.  Is this happening?  My sorority "hazed" - they made us stay up watching a candle for a whole night!

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59 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Kat's cruel treatment of her adorable crush Ethan continues to frustrate me, especially mocking him for being a virgin when she was a virgin what, a month ago or less? That kind of belittling wouldn't exactly put me in the mood to go down on her. You're not some sex goddess because you let old dudes jack off to you via Skype and then fucked a carnie. He was a trooper for trying. I know the narrative wants us to feel bad for Kat because she fears getting rejected again due to her weight, but she's just...such an asshole to him. And of course she ran away because she thought Ethan was stalling penetrating her because he finds her unsexy (which...ok he just ate you out) when in reality he was embarrassed about jizzing his pants. Gah! (Admittedly I don't understand why that was an obstacle - everything else is wet so who would really notice?)  

Yeah, she's really losing me. Up until this episode you could still see the vulnerability beneath the surface but in this one she was just a flat-out asshole.

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7 hours ago, hertolo said:

It‘s logic that TV characters use old reference because their speech was written by writers who want to put their memories in from their youth. A few years ago, it was all about the eighties, now that reference window moves and a few times, producers even allow young writers to write. But even then, it‘s age 25 to the „supposed“ 16 of the show, 10 years of difference. Seniority is a bad thing, but quite apparent here, you apparently need 10 years in Hollywood before you‘re allowed to produce something on your own.

On the show, it‘s clearly not a realistic one, but a fantasy. How concerned parents imagine their teens. Probably the only realistic one is Kats suitor with his premature ejaculation. But even he goes straight to giving head... Nevertheless, his insecurities strike me as more realistic than Nates sociopathy and violence. Kids just aren‘t that thought out in their life plans (at least I wasn‘t).

But that‘s okay, I like the story as escapism (being 33 myself), still I‘m not sure if the show is a good role model for teens, just as porn gets copied... It does help though that all actors look like they‘re 25 (and probably are, I know).

And agree, McKay could be a very good person, but the way he reacted to his girlfriends costume (go dress in something else) lost him a lot of points with me. I can understand why he didn‘t want to label her as girlfriend in front of Nate and his dad & how his dad fucked him up by trying to make his own fantasy come true and thereby blocking a healthy choice of college or other education.

So because he don't want his girl dressing a certain type of way losses him points? If that's his worst offense then it seems he is already a good person and damn sure not comparable to a Nate or a Daniel.

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7 hours ago, BigDfromLA said:

McKay is a likeable guy as a human being. He has just been very disrespectful how he's treated Cassie multiple times. Its maddening to just see her roll over and take it instead of dumping his ass. She can do a hell of a lot better.

I love Lexi. She is my favorite character and the only one in the whole show who is not screwed up. I hope nothing bad happens to her because she doesn't deserve it. Poor girl is stuck with a horrible collection of f--ed up peers.

It took until this, the sixth episode, but Rue is finally experiencing sadness and consequences of her lifestyle. In the first five episodes, it seems like all the horrible things she did to herself and others just rolled off her back like teflon. Dealing with a screwed up Jules and her sister knocked her off her high horse. For the first time, I felt some sympathy for her. I had never seen Zendaya in any of her earlier work. With each new episode, I respect and value her more and more as an actress.

Nate is obviously a rotten, evil bastard. When Jules was being questioned about the truth of her story by the detective, that was the moment she should have told them EVERYTHING Nate did to her and everyone else. His threat to her regarding the "child porn" is complete B.S., but she is too stupid and scared to realize that. That was her chance to come clean and she blew it. Even Nate's scumbag father is now realizing that his son is a monster that he created and is starting to fear.

Fezco the "drug dealer with a heart of gold" could have been a cliche, but give the writers and the actor credit for bringing some depth to the character. I wonder if the guy has sleepless nights about the horrible things he does, since he does seem to have a conscience. At least even Rue has no desire to see her little sister follow her path, but look at Fezco using his 11 year old "brother" as a partner in crime. Does that bother him deep down or does he just bury it deep inside. I think Fezco was designed as a minor character, but if he gets popular or good feedback, I can see them giving him a bigger role in season 2.

Cassie deserves better? But I guess it's perfectly fine that she was basically cheating on him while he hasn't even looked at another girl. It has been made perfectly clear that he's into her and cares for her. Meanwhile I don't think anybody has disrespected Cassie more than she has disrespected herself.

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1 hour ago, gesundheit said:

Yeah, she's really losing me. Up until this episode you could still see the vulnerability beneath the surface but in this one she was just a flat-out asshole.

I guess they're doing the whole "shy character finally gets a taste of power and becomes a douche until they come crashing back to earth when [insert bad event] happens" thing, which I'm guessing in this case will be getting outed as a cam girl, although the impact of that is definitely lessened by the non-event of her unknown sex tape being leaked. It thought it was significant that Ethan was the first one to focus on/care about her pleasure first, which made me even sadder that she mocked the idea he had feelings for her and was basically bullying him into mindless sex.

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20 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I don't think Kat named the movie. Something about someone who dresses as a nun to go on a revenge killing spree. Sounded like a more obscure pulp film.

She did name it, it was Ms. 45. (I only know this because I watch with closed captioning on. ) It's obscure, all right - I'm sure every other person at the party thought "slutty nun" just like Ethan did, lol.

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REALLY subtle music clue with "Smalltown Boy" by Bronksi Beat, show. I have a sudden urge to wave my rainbow flag now.

Edited by methodwriter85

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Wouldn't the police department investigators have gathered DNA evidence from both Nate and Maddy at the time Nate was first charged? 

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On 7/23/2019 at 7:21 PM, mommalib said:

Why is Mckay on thin ice? He's clearly a decent guy who has issues of his own that you would think people would be sympathetic to. He's not a scumbag like Nate or Daniel and he's not a drug dealer either.

I don't get the negative comments aimed at McKay.  He is flawed but generally tries to treat Cassie with respect. After the hazing, he asked her if she still wanted to have sex. He has also really downplayed how disrespectfully other guys talk about Cassie in order to protect her feelings. 

On 7/23/2019 at 8:21 PM, sd dude said:

The Hollywood Reporter interviewed actor Algee Smith and got the straight poop on the hazing scene - at least what was intentioned to be portrayed.  It seems to align with my earlier impression above, although I fully agree that as filmed there is ambiguity as to what precisely is going on.

I'm glad they clarified this because I was wondering if I missed something. I never got a rape vibe. It seemed like the kind of hazing stunt that is sadly quite common.  I would hope that if it was an actual rape, Cassie would do more than sit on the bed looking helpless.  I hope that she would call the police. 

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1 hour ago, laprin said:

He is flawed but generally tries to treat Cassie with respect.

Really?

Episode One- McKay starts a sexual encounter with Cassie in a violent manner after stupidly believing Nate's comment that she "wanted it" like that. 

Episode 4- McKay badmouths/disrespects/degrades Cassie in front of Nate (regarding their relationship status) and completely mishandles the fallout from that. 

Last episode: He rips into Cassie's Halloween costume and makes her change it, solely because he would be embarassed by her and is consumed by what everyone else thinks. Then after the frat attack, he uses Cassie as a sexual prop to prove his "manhood" to her, himself and the world. He didn't give a damn about her at that moment.

I just find McKay to be selfish and disrespectful regarding Cassie. I think he sees her as a possession and a piece of meat. Remember the comments that what he enjoys more than anything is that all the other guys want her and he is the one who possesses "the trophy" that is Cassie. And she is too stupid and disrespectful of herself to take it and put up with his crap. 

Edited by BigDfromLA
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Well, all these young people (the leads, anyway) are f'ed up for one reason or another.  We learned about McKay's history in this very episode and what influences have made him the person he is today.  He hasn't treated Cassie very well and it's not okay, but he is not acting out of any maliciousness or malevolence.  He seems to be completely oblivious to how he is disrespecting her and how it hurts her.  Again, not excusable but also not unforgiveable.  His intentions seem honorable, thus we can hope for his redemption and ultimate happy ending.

Compare that situation to Nate, for example, who is clearly something of a sociopath.  He intentionally and willfully manipulates and harms, causing injury both physically and emotionally.  We also have been shown how he ended up that way, which is something he might not have had any control over, but given all the pain and destruction he leaves in his wake and the fact that he seems to have no remorse (he may even feel pride), it is difficult to have any sympathy for him at all.

Similarly, I also find Maddy and Kat enormously self-absorbed and both seem to gain some personal benefit and satisfaction from intentionally being hurtful, although neither is anywhere near as destructive as Nate.  However, lined up against most of these characters, McKay comes out smelling like a rose in comparison.

Jules seems like a pretty innocuous type who just wants to live and let live.  And Rue obviously has caused a great deal of pain and chaos for her family and others who care about her due to her addiction, but so far in the series she plays the role of stage manager in Her Town, and not contributing very much to the drama, mostly stepping back and observing it.

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11 hours ago, Carmel Cub said:

Wouldn't the police department investigators have gathered DNA evidence from both Nate and Maddy at the time Nate was first charged? 

probably, but that was a day after the incident. She'd have showered, any DNA he left on her would have been washed off.

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I think McKay is a fundamentally decent person, but he’s been shaped by a toxic, misogynistic, macho culture. Like when he first got with Cassie — he was falling for her, his attraction to her was very sweet, but he still tried to choke her as soon as they got intimate because he’s been so influenced by porn. In this episode, there was a lot going on in terms of his masculinity and how he wanted his relationship with Cassie to enhance/reflect his masculinity. He wanted her to look a certain way at the party, he wanted to know that other men were looking at her in a way that would make them want to be him, and then he used her as a sex toy to try and recover from his traumatic hazing. And Cassie was getting (IMO understandably) confused and upset that he kept relating to her like she was just his “gf” prop, some kind of symbol or tool for his own masculinity, rather than a human being who he had an actual, personal connection to. It’s sad because I think that if they weren’t soaking in such a nasty stew of toxic cultural bullshit, they could be a wonderful couple. Same thing for Kat and Ethan. I mean, these are kids who just straight up like each other and are probably good matches for each other, but they’re too fucked up by the world they’re living in to drop all the artifice and connect. Kind of horrible and bizarre that the heterosexual couple most suited to surviving the fucked up gender stuff is arguably Mandy and Nate!

I agree with people upthread saying that Fezzco is an interesting character. Honestly, I don’t find his ambivalence toward selling drugs that unusual, though. It’s not like he’s living the dream, he seems like just some guy who was familiar with drugs for whatever reason and needed to make money, so he’s a dealer. I hope that we learn more about him, because he seems like he’s got a story. Why is he always so disengaged and flat, even when he’s clearly freaking out (like when his supplier was coming over and forced Rue to take the Fentanyl)? It’s like the volume on him is turned down way too low and he can’t crank it up again even when he tries.

Anyhow, I think that the characters are divided between the ones that respond to their circumstances by trying to mold themselves to suit them, and the ones who try to reshape their circumstances instead. Mandy, Nate, Cassie, McKay, and Fezzco all define themselves by their circumstances. Kat and Jukes have tried to transform theirs, though, rather than transforming themselves. Rue sort of totters in between the groups. I don’t think one path is “better” than another, but I think that whether they define themselves by their circumstances or whether they try to transform their circumstances to suit themselves is a defining trait of each of the characters.

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McKay is "wrong" for how he treats Cassie. yet nothing is mentioned about how Cassie has been unfaithful to McKay at multiple times during their "relationship."

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11 hours ago, MelloYellow said:

McKay is "wrong" for how he treats Cassie. yet nothing is mentioned about how Cassie has been unfaithful to McKay at multiple times during their "relationship."

Good point. 

I liked how they didn’t write the guy Cassie hooked up to be a rapist. A guy can still be a total asshole but not a rapist. It feels like most shows would have the asshole guy also be a rapist (I.e. the guy from 13 reasons why comes to mind). 

On 7/25/2019 at 3:02 AM, methodwriter85 said:

REALLY subtle music clue with "Smalltown Boy" by Bronksi Beat, show. I have a sudden urge to wave my rainbow flag now.

Thanks for sharing. I’m 40 but never heard this song before. It’s awesome!

Edited by SoWindsor

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On 7/23/2019 at 7:10 PM, heatherchandler said:

Well they fucked that up, Leo was wearing a knight costume for that scene. I remember it from seeing it in theaters when it came out.

BF76A25E-3BA6-48EB-BEC3-50C306E216D0.jpeg

Loved that and the pool scene and other call outs from Romeo and Juliet. Another movie that came out when I was in high school, along with true romance. I find it odd they are referencing movies from early 90s but someone already pointed out these are cult classics.

Don't get why rue was in a suit and not the armor.

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:38 PM, mommalib said:

So because he don't want his girl dressing a certain type of way losses him points? If that's his worst offense then it seems he is already a good person and damn sure not comparable to a Nate or a Daniel.

No, because he forces her to change into a worse and non-prepared costume. He can be uncomfortable with it & they can talk it out. But the way he talked to her about it is not a healthy way to solve a relationship dispute. Instead of a compromise, he had to show his superiority. And that‘s bad.

Similarly, after the hazing* he dealt with his pain in the bathroom and then got back to Cassie to prove his masculinity. It would have been so much more healthier had he taken her up on her proposal to talk about his feelings and insecurities. But he doesn‘t trust her, so at the moment that‘s not a relationship, but a periodical get together of two people needing something at that time.

One needs to learn how to do an adult relationship, and that requires trust. But he is afraid that after they maybe break up, Cassie will talk about him (or even now already). So, my point was more about toxic masculinity than him thinking her costume is slutty. He‘s entitled to that opinion.

*which I agree was no rape. That would be so much more fucked up and Cassie for sure would have called the police. No, that was a standard college hazing, not necessarily the best thing to do either.

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On 7/28/2019 at 6:01 AM, hertolo said:

No, because he forces her to change into a worse and non-prepared costume. He can be uncomfortable with it & they can talk it out. But the way he talked to her about it is not a healthy way to solve a relationship dispute. Instead of a compromise, he had to show his superiority. And that‘s bad.

Similarly, after the hazing* he dealt with his pain in the bathroom and then got back to Cassie to prove his masculinity. It would have been so much more healthier had he taken her up on her proposal to talk about his feelings and insecurities. But he doesn‘t trust her, so at the moment that‘s not a relationship, but a periodical get together of two people needing something at that time.

One needs to learn how to do an adult relationship, and that requires trust. But he is afraid that after they maybe break up, Cassie will talk about him (or even now already). So, my point was more about toxic masculinity than him thinking her costume is slutty. He‘s entitled to that opinion.

*which I agree was no rape. That would be so much more fucked up and Cassie for sure would have called the police. No, that was a standard college hazing, not necessarily the best thing to do either.

Mckay's not perfect it's clear that he has issues based off of the way his father raised him. Communication is not necessarily his strong suit right now because he was taught to bottle his emotions. I don't think he knows how to express himself but neither does Cassie because when he tried to talk to her in episode 2 all she wanted to do was have sex. She hasn't given him any indication that she's somebody he can bare his soul to. As far as the costume I guess he could have asked her differently or whatever but it's not like he berated her, and she was dressed type crazy. I just feel like Mckay is held to a different standard than other characters and I have my theory why but that's a different discussion.

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I think Jules missed the perfect 90s Halloween costume: D'Arcy from Smashing Pumpkins

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