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Shows That: Died Before Their Time, Never Got A Fair Shot, Or Were Ahead Of Their Time


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10 hours ago, toodywoody said:

Rebel, I wanted this to get renewed because I love Andy Garcia. But I thought it deserved another sesson.

It certainly deserved to have the full ten episode arc aired before a decision was made.  That was strange.  I initially only watched because of Mary McDonnell (playing the lead plaintiff in season one's case), but wound up really liking the show as a whole and would have stuck around to watch additional cases.  The cast was great, the friendship between Rebel and Lana alone would have made it worth watching, and the dynamics of a very extended and blended family were interesting.

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2 hours ago, Bastet said:

It certainly deserved to have the full ten episode arc aired before a decision was made.  That was strange.  I initially only watched because of Mary McDonnell (playing the lead plaintiff in season one's case), but wound up really liking the show as a whole and would have stuck around to watch additional cases.  The cast was great, the friendship between Rebel and Lana alone would have made it worth watching, and the dynamics of a very extended and blended family were interesting.

I agree. If they had stuck to the one case per season, I would have watched. And like you said the friendship was worth watching and the blended family was interesting. Those two things made it seem like real life. 

I wish network's would give shows more of a chance before deciding to cancel or not renew it. Then they put on more shows that are crap and then wonder why they don't have the viewers that they do.

I am sad that Constantine and Swamp Thing were both cancelled during their first seasons and didn't even get the chance to finish it, since the episode count was shortened for both. I watched both of them after the cancellation, so I knew how many episodes I was going to get, but it still sucks. I like DC's magical characters and think they have a lot of potential, sad to see them treated like this. 

I hope that Sandman fares better and is not the next entry, as it still hasn't been renewed.

On 10/1/2022 at 3:04 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That one too. That was New Amsterdam. The native Americans cursed him to live until he found love or something. I don't think that was the writers' strike though.

I loved New Amsterdam.  It was done in by a change of leadership at Fox.  The exec who ordered the show left before it aired and his replacement didn't understand/like/support it.

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The White Shadow.  

Gritty and realistic show about an an ex NBA player who blew out his knee and went to the inner city to become a high school basketball coach.

Well ahead of its time in many respects.  It's too bad it only lasted 3 years.  I think they should have just rotated the cast of the kids in the high school 

Edited by BlueSkies
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8 hours ago, Lugal said:

I loved New Amsterdam.  It was done in by a change of leadership at Fox.  The exec who ordered the show left before it aired and his replacement didn't understand/like/support it.

From what I understand, that happens a lot at networks.  The incoming exec, wanting to make their mark /show the new direction under their leadership, cancels programs ordered and/or supported by their predecessor, regardless of popularity or revenue.  Then their shows get cancelled once their replacement is hired, for the same reasons.

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9 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

The White Shadow.  

Gritty and realistic show about an an ex NBA player who blew out his knee and went to the inner city to become a high school basketball coach.

Well ahead of its time in many respects.  It's too bad it only lasted 3 years.  I think they should have just rotated the cast of the kids in the high school 

Although I consider The White Shadow the most realistic show to my high school experience it had major problems to keep the run going. There was no Coach drama with the Reeves family and with just another school in South Central Los Angeles neighborhood as opposed to an entire town trying to get their child football heroes to "State" neither the situation or any of the kids bust out as the must see stars.

With Senior High being only three years in LA at the time following the team turn around, the City championship and the attempt to bring in the new kids to a champion team in the third year. But the social issues hit upon during the 3 year run was glorious.

And of course Carver High's center Warner Coolidge showing up on St Elsewhere in the same character who got injured and lost his scholarship at Coach Reeves alma mater Boston College thus kicking off the "Tommyverse" might be among the show's longest lasting legacy.

Edited by Raja
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9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

From what I understand, that happens a lot at networks.  The incoming exec, wanting to make their mark /show the new direction under their leadership, cancels programs ordered and/or supported by their predecessor, regardless of popularity or revenue.  Then their shows get cancelled once their replacement is hired, for the same reasons.

That was the entire m/o of the SciFi channel in the mid 00s. I stopped watched altogether after I think Eureka and W13. 

Bill Russell parodied the White Shadow on Saturday Night Live way way back. 

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13 hours ago, Raja said:

Although I consider The White Shadow the most realistic show to my high school experience it had major problems to keep the run going. There was no Coach drama with the Reeves family and with just another school in South Central Los Angeles neighborhood as opposed to an entire town trying to get their child football heroes to "State" neither the situation or any of the kids bust out as the must see stars.

With Senior High being only three years in LA at the time following the team turn around, the City championship and the attempt to bring in the new kids to a champion team in the third year. But the social issues hit upon during the 3 year run was glorious.

And of course Carver High's center Warner Coolidge showing up on St Elsewhere in the same character who got injured and lost his scholarship at Coach Reeves alma mater Boston College thus kicking off the "Tommyverse" might be among the show's longest lasting legacy.

I recall in the 3rd season Kenny went back to his 20th year high school reunion in Queens and there was some drama there with his dad.  I know his dad was in those 2 episodes.  I think he was really sick?

I know Salami irl directed some episodes of Boardwalk Empire.  Thomas Carter or Haywood directed Coach Carter.  I recall watching that movie and there was a scene in the movie the team snuck out to have fun or something like that.  I could not help but recall that episode where the team had that tournament in Las Vegas but decided to sneak out and gamble all night.  

Yeah many people will say RainMan was like the first mention of autism on TV or movies.  Not true.  I dont know if The White Shadow was the first to touch on this but there was an episode with a non verbal special needs student with autism who got to practice with the team.  I was officially diagnosed recently so yeah that topic for me hits home.  

Edited by BlueSkies
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13 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I know Salami irl directed some episodes of Boardwalk Empire.  Thomas Carter or Haywood directed Coach Carter.  I recall watching that movie and there was a scene in the movie the team snuck out to have fun or something like that.  I could not help but recall that episode where the team had that tournament in Las Vegas but decided to sneak out and gamble all night.  

TV director wise Thomas Carter picked up the pilot episode of Miami Vice, while TV is different from movies so remember the showrunners Anthony Yerkovich  and Michael Mann I always knew that "Hayward" brought in among the most influential TV episodes of all time

Sorry if this was mentioned but Working with Fred Savage

I know irl Fred seems kinda on the d-baggy side.  But it seems it’s very rare to see a tv series or movie tap into that age group:

Just finished college with idealistic hopes for the future to find out what the daily grind is all about

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1 hour ago, BlueSkies said:

Just finished college with idealistic hopes for the future to find out what the daily grind is all about

Yeah I'm in my early thirties, and that time period really broke several friends of mine. And it was never the ones you'd think would have struggled with that. And off the top of my head, I can't think of any pop culture that deals with it. 

Edited by Zella
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56 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm in my early thirties, and that time period really broke several friends of mine. And it was never the ones you'd think would have struggled with that. And off the top of my head, I can't think of any pop culture that deals with it. 

Maybe The Devil Wears Prada touched a little on some of those themes…

But yeah I definitely agree.  Perhaps it shows in a way how of touch pop culture can be with the working world 

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On 10/24/2022 at 5:46 PM, Zella said:

Yeah I'm in my early thirties, and that time period really broke several friends of mine. And it was never the ones you'd think would have struggled with that. And off the top of my head, I can't think of any pop culture that deals with it. 

Gilmore Girls dealt with it a bit in the revival. Of course, people hated Rory for struggling in work, so I'm not sure how successful it was. I liked that storyline, it was other storylines that I had problems with in the revival.

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The death of Leslie Jordan reminds me of a recent show that didn’t make it past a year, The Cool Kids.  It was abt life in a senior center, and hubby & I enjoyed it immensely.

With a cast of Leslie, Vicki Lawrence, Stacy Keach, and Damon Wayans, it should’ve been a slam dunk, but I guess it didn’t reach the coveted 24-49 bracket.

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16 hours ago, Hiyo said:

You mean David Alan Grier, not Damon Wayans, right?

And Martin Mull, not Stacy Keach...

I love Grier! He's hilarious in everything but I loved him in Life with Bonnie with the hilarious Bonnie Hunt. It was a cute and funny show but they never gave it a chance. He was also funny in DAG which I knew never had a chance. He was a Secret Service agent who ah jumped out of the way instead of in front of the President when someone took a shot at him. It sounds terrible but it was funny (obviously not funny in real life) he ends up protecting the First Lady instead with Delta Burke.

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On 10/25/2022 at 8:42 PM, roamyn said:

The death of Leslie Jordan reminds me of a recent show that didn’t make it past a year, The Cool Kids.  It was abt life in a senior center, and hubby & I enjoyed it immensely.

With a cast of Leslie, Vicki Lawrence, Stacy Keach, and Damon Wayans, it should’ve been a slam dunk, but I guess it didn’t reach the coveted 24-49 bracket.

I really liked that show, I was disappointed it got cancelled 

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On 10/24/2022 at 9:50 AM, BlueSkies said:

Sorry if this was mentioned but Working with Fred Savage

I know irl Fred seems kinda on the d-baggy side.  But it seems it’s very rare to see a tv series or movie tap into that age group:

Just finished college with idealistic hopes for the future to find out what the daily grind is all about

Isn't that what Friends was about.  And all those shows that copied it like Happy Endings, Friends from College, How I Met your Mother,

Edited by Ms Blue Jay

If you still have a DVD player, I found the season 1 and 2 box sets of Kung Fu: The Legend Continues at my library. And if your local library doesn't have it, interlibrary loan should. From what I remember the cancellation was unexpected and they suddenly had to end the story in a way they hadn't planned. Chris Potter was the reason I started watching Silk Stalkings after Kung Fu ended and he was hired as the new lead. That also should have had more time with Tom and Casey's story. And Forever Knight, which apart from it's Canadian cheesiness and low budget was a good show. Mostly I think it's remembered as a trivia question because it was based on a TV movie starring Rick Springfield.

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7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Isn't that what Friends was about.  And all those shows that copied it like Happy Endings, Friends from College, How I Met your Mother,

The Friends cast looked like they were in their 30s but I never got into the show or the other ones you mentioned 

Idk, you might be right

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An episode of Friends that I particularly liked actually did deal a bit with what it was like to struggle after college.  Monica has been given  a promotion at work and the whole episode deals with "the haves" (Monica, Ross and Chandler) and the "have nots" (Rachel, Phoebe and Joey).   One scene I remember was they were all at dinner and the have nots are ordering things like a side salad or a soup as their meal while the haves are splashing out on the $$$ things on the menu and then at the end someone suggests splitting the bill six ways!

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I never really watched Friends, but what little I did, it never struck me as a very realistic look at people who were just out of college, if that is in fact their stage in life. They were way more affluent than anybody I've ever known at that time in their life. And to be fair to Friends, that's a problem I have with a lot of TV shows. The characters are written as poor, but they're really only poor in TV Land. 

That's actually something I really liked about The Middle. I totally bought the Hecks as being at the socioeconomic class they were written as. 

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3 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

An episode of Friends that I particularly liked actually did deal a bit with what it was like to struggle after college.  Monica has been given  a promotion at work and the whole episode deals with "the haves" (Monica, Ross and Chandler) and the "have nots" (Rachel, Phoebe and Joey).   One scene I remember was they were all at dinner and the have nots are ordering things like a side salad or a soup as their meal while the haves are splashing out on the $$$ things on the menu and then at the end someone suggests splitting the bill six ways!

I like that episode because it showed some reality.

3 hours ago, Zella said:

I never really watched Friends, but what little I did, it never struck me as a very realistic look at people who were just out of college, if that is in fact their stage in life. They were way more affluent than anybody I've ever known at that time in their life. And to be fair to Friends, that's a problem I have with a lot of TV shows. The characters are written as poor, but they're really only poor in TV Land. 

That's actually something I really liked about The Middle. I totally bought the Hecks as being at the socioeconomic class they were written as. 

I liked the Middle for that reason too. They really did struggle. Half of it was their own bad job managing money. Other have was life crap. When something came up like an extra bill they had to take second jobs to pay for it. There was no lip service or just one episode like in most series.  They've had to go without TV when the cable bill was too high. Driving without a windshield.  Mike and Frankie pin their hopes on Axl getting a scholarship and financial aid for Sue. The latter which never comes up on TV. 

There's also a great episode when Sue's trying to pick her college major. She wants something fun or exciting. She can't decide between theater, veterinarian, German and something else. Her parents' want her to chose for herself but something practical. Frankie tries to talk to her into narrowing down from four. She picks theater. Sue's a terrible actress. She also couldn't cut it as vet. Frankie finally tells her that there's no family money coming her way so she's going to have to pick something that will support herself but also will be last. But Sue doesn't really get it. She thinks her mother doesn't understand. Mike talks to her later and he tells her how hard their life really is. Having to share a battery between two cars or using several credit cards to pay one bill. It's a really hard life and while Mike doesn't know what she should do with her life but he wants it to be different. He wants it to better then their life. Sue finally gets it. It's a very rare episode where you have the college student not understanding what her parents' are trying to say because she's young. And parents' who really do want her to major in what she wants but also one that will be a career for her because it will have to support her and have an honest conversation about how hard it is. Because most shows the family has plenty of money or grandparents or get a full ride to college or something. They'll always have their family money to fall back on or take care of their bills. As much as I love a lot of those shows it's really nice to have a family that doesn't have that. The parents' have to work. The kids if they want to go to college have to get a scholarship or qualifty for financial aid. The kids don't have the latest style of clothes and stuff. They struggle. Sue does end up picking a major that's perfect for her hospitality and will support her.

Edited by andromeda331
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1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I like that episode because it showed some reality.

I liked the Middle for that reason too. They really did struggle. Half of it was their own bad job managing money. Other have was life crap. When something came up like an extra bill they had to take second jobs to pay for it. There was no lip service or just one episode like in most series.  They've had to go without TV when the cable bill was too high. Driving without a windshield.  Mike and Frankie pin their hopes on Axl getting a scholarship and financial aid for Sue. The latter which never comes up on TV. 

There's also a great episode when Sue's trying to pick her college major. She wants something fun or exciting. She can't decide between theater, veterinarian, German and something else. Her parents' want her to chose for herself but something practical. Frankie tries to talk to her into narrowing down from four. She picks theater. Sue's a terrible actress. She also couldn't cut it as vet. Frankie finally tells her that there's no family money coming her way so she's going to have to pick something that will support herself but also will be last. But Sue doesn't really get it. She thinks her mother doesn't understand. Mike talks to her later and he tells her how hard their life really is. Having to share a battery between two cars or using several credit cards to pay one bill. It's a really hard life and while Mike doesn't know what she should do with her life but he wants it to be different. He wants it to better then their life. Sue finally gets it. It's a very rare episode where you have the college student not understanding what her parents' are trying to say because she's young. And parents' who really do want her to major in what she wants but also one that will be a career for her because it will have to support her and have an honest conversation about how hard it is. Because most shows the family has plenty of money or grandparents or get a full ride to college or something. They'll always have their family money to fall back on or take care of their bills. As much as I love a lot of those shows it's really nice to have a family that doesn't have that. The parents' have to work. The kids if they want to go to college have to get a scholarship or qualifty for financial aid. The kids don't have the latest style of clothes and stuff. They struggle. Sue does end up picking a major that's perfect for her hospitality and will support her.

Yeah the interior of the house also looked like houses I've been in. That's never my reaction to TV houses. 

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20 hours ago, Zella said:

I never really watched Friends, but what little I did, it never struck me as a very realistic look at people who were just out of college, if that is in fact their stage in life. They were way more affluent than anybody I've ever known at that time in their life. And to be fair to Friends, that's a problem I have with a lot of TV shows. The characters are written as poor, but they're really only poor in TV Land. 

Except for Phoebe, every character came from some level of money and had support. Rachel's dad was a doctor, Ross and Monica's parents were what rich people call comfortable, Chandler's mom was basically Danielle Steele and he used his money to prop up Joey until Joey found success in acting. Even Joey's dad had a solid business and his family lived in a nice house. Plus, every one of them was about five years out of undergrad. (Ross probably was the most recent one out of school with his PhD) Their level of wealth or not felt very real to me. Not at their parents level and sometimes struggling because of life events but also able to save, stable and benefitting for support networks that give them legs up on the average person.

As for Phoebe, she's had about ten years of adulthood to build up a professional network and set herself up in life. She was never the richest of the friends but the show didn't pretend she was. But I never got the sense that Phoebe was poor, just that she, along with Joey and Rachel in the early years, weren't as financially stable as the others. 

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2 hours ago, vibeology said:

Their level of wealth or not felt very real to me. Not at their parents level and sometimes struggling because of life events but also able to save, stable and benefitting for support networks that give them legs up on the average person.

In that sense, I suppose it is believable, but as someone whose family gutted chickens for a living and worked in construction, I didn't find it very relatable. 

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12 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Square One TV on PBS

That show's music video about probability never left my brain. ("Probability, don't you mess with me/Help me make the most of a chance/Might be win or lose, still I've got to choose/Long as there's a ghost of a chance.") I liked how "Ghost of a Chance" was a parody of Rockwell's "Somebody's Watching Me" with elements of "I Need a Freak" by Sexual Harrassment. The late Reg E. Cathey was best known for House of Cards and the role of Mayor Carcetti's senior aide on The Wire, but the first thing I think of when I remember Cathey is the music video where he trapped a pizza delivery boy in his haunted house.

square-one-television-ghost-of-a-chance4.gif.02ffcdb1af468a8d7bad72f4c68edbd7.gif

I got to interview TV score composer Gerald Fried—the composer of the Star Trek fight theme—in 1999 for a college radio show I hosted, and I remember telling him I liked his synthy cover of the Dragnet theme from Square One's "Mathnet" serial.

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8 hours ago, MusubiMyHomie said:

That show's music video about probability never left my brain. ("Probability, don't you mess with me/Help me make the most of a chance/Might be win or lose, still I've got to choose/Long as there's a ghost of a chance.") I liked how "Ghost of a Chance" was a parody of Rockwell's "Somebody's Watching Me" with elements of "I Need a Freak" by Sexual Harrassment. The late Reg E. Cathey was best known for House of Cards and the role of Mayor Carcetti's senior aide on The Wire, but the first thing I think of when I remember Cathey is the music video where he trapped a pizza delivery boy in his haunted house.

square-one-television-ghost-of-a-chance4.gif.02ffcdb1af468a8d7bad72f4c68edbd7.gif

I got to interview TV score composer Gerald Fried—the composer of the Star Trek fight theme—in 1999 for a college radio show I hosted, and I remember telling him I liked his synthy cover of the Dragnet theme from Square One's "Mathnet" serial.

Can I tell you this video absolutely petrified me as a child!  I felt so bad for this poor pizza guy who seemingly couldn't escape.

As an adult its great though.  I thought it had elements of Michael Jackson's Thriller video too 

Edited by BlueSkies
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On 10/27/2022 at 1:33 PM, Elizabeth Anne said:

An episode of Friends that I particularly liked actually did deal a bit with what it was like to struggle after college.  Monica has been given  a promotion at work and the whole episode deals with "the haves" (Monica, Ross and Chandler) and the "have nots" (Rachel, Phoebe and Joey).   One scene I remember was they were all at dinner and the have nots are ordering things like a side salad or a soup as their meal while the haves are splashing out on the $$$ things on the menu and then at the end someone suggests splitting the bill six ways!

Several years ago, when I was struggling financially and my best friend was much better off, I actually used this episode to try and explain how I felt sometimes when she wanted to do something nice and I went along even though I really couldn't afford it.  Fortunately she got it and we're still best friends.

Overall Friends was extremely unrealistic, but that particular episode resonated with me.

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3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Several years ago, when I was struggling financially and my best friend was much better off, I actually used this episode to try and explain how I felt sometimes when she wanted to do something nice and I went along even though I really couldn't afford it.  Fortunately she got it and we're still best friends.

Overall Friends was extremely unrealistic, but that particular episode resonated with me.

You just reminded me of another episode of the Middle where Sue has to explain that to her friend and college roommate Lexi. Lexi's rich so it doesn't occur to her when she buys a TV or tickets to a concert for both of them and tells Sue they'll split the cost that Sue can't. At first Sue tries to keep up but she can't. She doesn't want to tell Lexi because she worries it'll be the end of their friendship (it is a new friendship) but finally she has no choice. Lexi does end up understanding. 

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Another decent I recall was The Street from 2000.  Only lasted a few episodes.  

Was about Wall Street.  I liked it because it had Jennifer Connelly in a role where she was a hardass versus a victim or a character who is depressed/sad which is sort of usually the case in most her roles.  

Giancarlo Esposito I know was in it as well.  

Edited by BlueSkies
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Ok so this is my first post and I did not read all 17 pages so if these have been mentioned/discussed, I'm sorry.

Life - with Damian Lewis, Sarah Shahi, Adam Arkin, Donal Logue, Christina Hendricks - Cop drama/mystery about a cop wrongly accused of murder and released after many years. Things got pretty convoluted because the writers strike happened and after 2 seasons it was gone. I loved Damian Lewis as Charlie Crews so much that I really can't watch him in any other role.

The Class - with Jason Ritter, Jessie Tyler Ferguson, Lizzie Caplan, Jon Bernthath - I guess maybe it copied the Friends premise a little but not really. Anyway, sad it only lasted one season. Good cast.

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10 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I recall this show Lipstick Jungle that was only on like 2 seasons.  

Tbh, I really can't recall much about the show besides Brooke Shields.  But maybe posters here recall and think it was axed too soon?  

Yes Lipstick Jungle (based on a book with the same name by Candace Bushnell) was on for two seasons.  I liked it but I thought Cashmere Mafia which was on around the same time was much more fun.  

10 hours ago, juno said:

Dirty Sexy Money and Huff had great first seasons and terrible second seasons. I always hoped that I third season would fix the mess of the second seasons.

Loved Dirty Sexy Money but you are right. They needed to third season to correct the second season.  It ended with so many unanswered questions.

5 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

The Class - with Jason Ritter, Jessie Tyler Ferguson, Lizzie Caplan, Jon Bernthath - I guess maybe it copied the Friends premise a little but not really. Anyway, sad it only lasted one season. Good cast.

I liked the Class so much I paid for the whole season on Prime.  It was a great show.  I could never figure out why it didn't do well.

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Discussion of Kyle Chandler’s Coach Taylor on another Board, reminded me of his first role, on Homefront, a show abt the women holding down the fort during WWII and how they were affected as the men came home.

Homefront lasted only for one season, but I thought it had potential.

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1 hour ago, jah1986 said:

OMG I loved Homefront! It did have potential, but it also ended in a way that further seasons were not necessary. I actually thought it did have two seasons, but could be wrong. Of course if the show was available to watch anywhere (hint, hint) we would know for sure.

I have been looking for this series for years. I don't know why it has not been released. It was such a wonderful story with an amazing cast.

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On 11/15/2022 at 9:39 AM, roamyn said:

Homefront lasted only for one season, but I thought it had potential.

4 hours ago, jah1986 said:

I actually thought it did have two seasons, but could be wrong.

Homefront did have two seasons. I loved this show so much! For years a DVD release was being held up because of music rights. Some of those might have expired by now but I don't know. I wish it was streaming so I could get my fix, I recall recording some episodes on VHS and I still have those but don't want to try to dig them out. Also Jeff & Ginger 4 eva is TRUTH. 

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A lot of good shows listed here.

Because I just binged it on Hulu, "Enlisted," about three brothers serving in the Army on a base in Florida. The oldest is a war hero reassigned there from Afghanistan after punching an officer, the middle is a sarcastic slacker, and the youngest is gung-ho but dumb and worships the oldest brother. (Parker Young, who starred as a Marine veteran in "United States of Al," plays the youngest brother).

The show touched on the absurdities of military life, but also dealt with PTSD and the strain on the families of the deployed.

It got one season of 13 episodes, but it should have gone on for more.

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19 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

A lot of good shows listed here.

Because I just binged it on Hulu, "Enlisted," about three brothers serving in the Army on a base in Florida. The oldest is a war hero reassigned there from Afghanistan after punching an officer, the middle is a sarcastic slacker, and the youngest is gung-ho but dumb and worships the oldest brother. (Parker Young, who starred as a Marine veteran in "United States of Al," plays the youngest brother).

The show touched on the absurdities of military life, but also dealt with PTSD and the strain on the families of the deployed.

It got one season of 13 episodes, but it should have gone on for more.

Great cast, funny show with a lot of heart. You are absolutely correct that it died a completely unnessary early death.

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