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S02.E03: Butterfly/Cocoon

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A fatal mishap with a client leads Elektra to seek out the counsel of Blanca and Candy. Meanwhile, moving from friends to lovers proves to be a challenge for Angel and Lil Papi.

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Original air date: 6/25/19

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This was a much lighter, fun filled episode even with the dead body. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention but is Electra keeping the body indefinitely? Or will she get rid of the truck after the publicity of Paul going missing dies down?

Angel looked amazing. 

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15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

This was a much lighter, fun filled episode even with the dead body. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention but is Electra keeping the body indefinitely? Or will she get rid of the truck after the publicity of Paul going missing dies down?

Angel looked amazing. 

She said that she was going to keep the body forever. There was a quote at the end by Dorian Corey who was featured in Paris in Burning. According to Wikipedia, after Dorian died of AIDS-related complications, the cops found in Dorian's things, the mummified body of an ex-boyfriend who was killed 15 years earlier.

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Just now, nilyank said:

She said that she was going to keep the body forever. There was a quote at the end by Dorian Corey who was featured in Paris in Burning. According to Wikipedia, after Dorian died of AIDS-related complications, the cops found in Dorian's things, the mummified body of an ex-boyfriend who was killed 15 years earlier.

Thank you. 

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I really enjoyed Elektra's story this week. I loved how she and Blanca reverted to their original roles of mother and daughter respectively in that moment of panic. Elektra was protective of Blanca and acted like a loving mother. I wanted to scold them and say that Elektra should have taken Blanca's advice and call the police, but Candy and the other woman was right, she would have been charged and locked up in Riker's. The tabloids would have a field day while she would have gone on trial and found guilty of whatever charge they pulled out of their asses. I don't know how long Elektra can live with that body though. She has to bury him eventually.

I am happy for Angel, but poor heartbroken Papi. One day, maybe they will be together. 

As usual, the music was on point!

4 minutes ago, nilyank said:

She said that she was going to keep the body forever. There was a quote at the end by Dorian Corey who was featured in Paris in Burning. According to Wikipedia, after Dorian died of AIDS-related complications, the cops found in Dorian's things, the mummified body of an ex-boyfriend who was killed 15 years earlier.

I stand corrected. Elektra will keep the body forever. I had never heard of this. Wild.

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PEPPERMINT!!!

I spent half the episode thinking about Dorian Corey, so I’m really glad they included that quote. 

I really like this episode. Angel should have treated Papi better though. 

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Papi's speech after getting stood up was certainly sweet.  Too bad he doesn't believe his words.  The world is just too damn big and too damn wicked for him to really buy into that truth.  And it IS truth. 

What did Angel do with her check?  She would have got that loooong before the campaign would have been in-store.  Now comes this butterfly's breakout from the Blanca cocoon.  How can this possibly work well?  I am sad to contemplate what must be coming.

Denim Ball?  Pray Tell done lost his mind!  One thing that is actually problematic is that Angel would never lose any "modeling" related trophy in a Ball.  She could wear the proverbial potato sack and earn straight 10s.  

I had an enjoyable flashback to the famous Downton Abbey arc of the lover diplomat who was dragged by the ladies from Mary's bedroom back to his own following his sudden, untimely and terribly inconvenient demise in Mary's bed.  Kudos to TPTB for having the audacity to make the submissive's fate work as farce.  It's a  very difficult proposition and I largely bought it.

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31 minutes ago, heckkitty said:

I really like this episode. Angel should have treated Papi better though. 

Ah the years before the ubiquitous use of cell phones. I don't blame her for taking her opportunity, as ridiculously timed as it was.  Opportunities like that don't come along often.

But I did feel bad for Papi; however, I did like how maturely he took it. 

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Angel is so drop dead gorgeous! When she didn’t win that Ford contest, I kept thinking “aren’t they going to get her gigs and, if not, there are other agencies.” But “Wet and Wild”? That is the cheap makeup (and, yes, I’ve bought it!). Well, it’s a start.

I don’t know how there couldn’t have been a smell from that trunk. I do know that Natron was used in ancient Egypt to desiccate corpses for mummification. Don’t know if you can buy that now. Loved the silicone injection lady.😆

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I'm glad that this week (and from the previews, next week also) they touched on the risk of violence in their community and how the cops react to violence against them. If it is bad now, it was even worse back then.

I'm happy for Angel, but I'm so worried about her getting exposed somehow.

Poor Papi. Sometimes timing just sucks. I just wanted to reach through the screen and give him a big hug.

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Well, I never would've thought the Angel/Papi romance would be a B-plot to manslaughter cover up, but I guess that's just this show for you. Hiding a body was surprisingly a fun romp in the park compared to the lead balloon of Angel walking all over Papi. Who would've thought murder would depress me less than romance!

Re: Angel/Papi, That just… wasn't what I was expecting in the most disappointing, underwhelming way possible. Yes I'm being slightly overdramatic and I'm sure that they will course correct by the finale, but I've been giddy with excitement over how they'd finally hookup for weeks. They are both such happy, lively characters and I was looking forward to how their dynamic would evolve. The whole thing was so weirdly melancholy the whole episode, from their first kiss onward. It almost felt like when two characters hook up after a funeral, but it was only her modeling competition. Papi's visceral desperation for love was physically painful and honestly made me sad. We often think of Angel as the insecure character, but Papi is outright begging for anyone to show him a shred of affection. Angel had barely pulled away from kissing him (which, by the way, Indya Moore really went for lol that kiss went on forever and looked sloppy) before he's frantically reassuring her that he loved it and already rambling on about how she's his dream girl or whatever. That sudden declaration that he's had a thing for her ever since he first saw her really threw me for a loop because as much as I've always enjoyed their friendship and now their chemistry, I never picked up on a romantic vibe last season. But, they also really wasted no time in making Angel look like a fickle asshole. I don't understand how in the span of what, four days and a scene or two the show's attitude towards Papi went from "Papi is Angel's number one source of support and she doesn't know what she'd do without him" to "Papi is beneath Angel and being with him will destroy her career before it starts." The shot of him waiting alone outside the restaurant with flowers really broke my heart into 1 million pieces. I'm not looking forward to this next stretch of episodes of Papi pining and sulking while Angel swans around thinking her shit doesn't stink. Although Papi's multiple monologues about Angel suddenly being his one true love are a little overbearing and excessive, her cutesy, flippant reaction to his little speech sticking up for himself and asserting his self-worth made my heart sink. Papi's too good for her. Love yourself!!!!! He gives her so much emotionally and right now she's too intoxicated by the prospect of fame to care. This isn't as fun as I was hoping. That little hallway kiss though...a tiny window into their real potential. So soft. So tender. I swooned. I know I thirst over Indya Moore constantly, but man, Angel Curiel is sexy as fuck. Wish he'd kiss me like that. I digress.

Moving on, an unexpected byproduct of the body disposal storyline was that this was the first time ever that I've enjoyed Candy as a character. I didn't even mind the sketchy silicone dealer. So if this Electra plot is based off the Dorian person mentioned up thread, she's just going to keep the body forever and there's not going to be a resolution?  Fair enough I guess, as I was just coming in here to say that this plot is completely absurd and I had no idea how they could progress it realistically in any other way besides Electra going to jail forever, but it's true that real life is sometimes stranger than fiction. That's certainly one way to humble a character. Again, even if the body just stayed there undetected, I'm not really sure where they're going with this and surely the secret will be leaked at some point. Is this going to turn into a How to Get Away with Murder situation where they all form a pact and have to keep moving the body around so it doesn't get discovered? It was a surprisingly nice character moment between between Blanca and Electra when Electra tried to shield Blanca from further culpability. Blanca spends so much time mothering everyone else and cleaning up after Electra that it was odd but refreshing to see someone else (let alone Electra) trying to protect her for once.

Edited by SnarkEnthusiast
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A+ for this week's music! My Prerogative, Black Cat, Nasty Girl - so much good stuff!

Elektra really should have stuck to that no drugs rule (although realistically I understand why she couldn't resist the extra money).

Blanca's face when she saw Angel and Papi kiss was HILARIOUS.

Papi continues to be the best, even when his heart is broken.

Even before Elektra verbalized it at the end, I loved how people who were mad at each other last week came together when there was a real crisis. That's family for you. Even the silicone lady put aside her beef with Candy to help Elektra. I mean, yes, she got paid, but like the story of the village in Honduras, this was the community coming together to protect one of their own.

Peppermint!

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I  liked that we found out that Papi has turned his life around. He is no longer selling drugs, has gotten his GED and has a steady job. I also liked that he told Angel how he felt but he still wished her the very best to go after her dreams and stood of for himself that he is worth something.

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I didn’t like the way they handled the Dorian Corey stuff. Dorian’s mummified ex was an abusive monster, and in all likelihood Dorian was in a kill-or-be-killed situation.

And their take on this material is to have someone happen to overdose in Elektra’s presence, with her barely being involved? How sanitized can you get?

Also, we saw the “I have an incredible professional opportunity, but I’m supposed to go on my first date with someone at the exact same time, and now I have to leave them sitting alone at a restaurant!” thing last season, with Damon and Ricky. Couldn’t you just call the restaurant and leave a message for the person?

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I feel like this was one of the best episodes they've done to date. LOTS of layers to all of this. (I started to say lots to unpack, but given the episode, probably not the best word choice! 😅

Sorry, long post ahead -- I usually try to keep them short, but so much in this episode!! 

Yes, they did an amazing job of bringing humor into the death story without it being offensive or campy (a feat in and of itself),  but it served to underscore what the trans community faced (and still faces) whenever they had/have to interact with police. The story about the prostitute was heart-breaking. Both her story and the main story of the death was masterful in the way it highlighted the inequalities of their community versus white male privilege without being preachy about it. There was no, "oh the injustice of it all" chest-beating -- it simply was "this is the reality bitches, so let's deal with it."

It also underscored how, no matter how much you want to feel equal and believe that if you only stand up for yourself, you'll be okay, the reality is that, for anyone who doesn't fit a certain mold, that isn't going to happen. I wouldn't say Blanca was naive in wanting them to do the right thing -- it was in keeping with her character's actions and belief that her community should be treated fairly -- I would say this desire for equality clouds her judgment of reality sometimes. 

I felt like the first episode with Pray Tell and Blanca on the island was a bit expository and stilted but informed the audience about a major part of their community's world that "outsiders" wouldn't know about.

The prostitute beating story, on the other hand, informed the audience of what the community experiences from police when they're the victims but it fit with the story and flowed more naturally overall. I was almost in tears when they showed the mug shot scene. Elektra's statement of (I'm paraphrasing) "we may fight but we close ranks to take care of each other when it matters" was equally powerful and sad at the same time. 

Angel and Papi -- again, on the surface, star-crossed lovers who just can't make the timing work -- underneath for Angel, the struggle of having in front of her two things she desperately wants --one being unconditional love from Papi; the other, the opportunity to have her womanhood validated outside the community with no conditions or qualifiers. She's "normal."

As someone who has been through what she has, who only wants to be loved for who she really is, Angel knows that unconditional love is realistically only going to come from someone in her community. And there is Papi offering it to her.

I adore that she put love of herself and the importance of finally being accepted as a woman without condition over validation of her woman-ness from a man. The fall (and we know it is coming), is going to be heartbreaking for her (and us to watch), but I still feel she made the right choice -- potentially life-changing career opportunity or a potential relationship -- the quintessential decision most women have faced at one point or another.

And Papi, with his new sense of self-worth rather than allowing himself to be knocked down again. , standing up to Angel, saying he is just as good as -- and better in many ways -- than the "beautiful people" -- again, wonderful character development.

With all of that, and Damon standing up for himself to Ricky in the face of the cheating and talking him out of using a condom, we are seeing people who have been made to feel worthless their whole lives simply because of who they are find their self-worth.  Why? All because of Mother Blanca. 

I have been on the fence about Blanca's character, but the way they've developed all the other characters based on her influence, is truly incredible. Its been very organic and not at all "I've changed because of YOU mother!" in-your-face approach that tv shows often do. 

Opinions will of course vary, but my thought at the end of this episode was "for your consideration" to the Emmy awards. 

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10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Angel is so drop dead gorgeous! When she didn’t win that Ford contest, I kept thinking “aren’t they going to get her gigs and, if not, there are other agencies.” But “Wet and Wild”? That is the cheap makeup (and, yes, I’ve bought it!). Well, it’s a start.

It's cheap but it's everywhere. Every drugstore in the country sold Wet N' Wild in 1990. It's great exposure. Angel was right to stay - when she started to leave I thought, girl, this is your shot! (I actually didn't love the picture they chose, but hey.)

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Blanca's face when she saw Angel and Papi kiss was HILARIOUS.

Yes! It was everything. The perfect "OH SNAP!" face.

Larry Wilmore has a quote about how racist the benefit of the doubt is (meaning POC do NOT get the benefit of the doubt), so I was Team Cover-Up. When the prostitute told her story I was nodding along sadly. There's no way Elektra would have been believed; the guy's family would have dragged her through the mud and she'd have been convicted in five minutes. And Rikers is a hellhole anyway, and would be doubly so for Elektra.

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Man, this show!  The farce nature of Elektra's sub's accidental OD death was unexpected.  As many of your said, it served to underscore how railroaded and poorly trans folk were/are treated by The System, but added a great element of dark humor.  Also loved the unusual combination of Elektra/Candy/Blanca.  Elektra and her tablecloth flipping self ("this is my thing now" LOLOLOL) is so much, but she loves her old daughters, and they love her too.  I appreciated the "it's us against the world" vibe.  The scene of particular note for me was when Elektra pulled Blanca out of the room, so Blanca's tender heart wouldn't be exposed to what they were about to do.  Those actresses really sold the love that is underneath the shade. 

Ryan Murphy is a lot of things, but, damn, his shows ALWAYS have the best music, especially when they are "period" pieces like Pose.  I was JAMMING out. If you haven't checked out the Pose playlist on Spotify, I highly recommend it.  I had my office grooving yesterday. 

Sometimes I forget how young Blanca is, but her sneaking and "ohhhhh shhiitttt, yasss" face as Papi and Angel kiss warmed my heart.

Angel Curiel has such an interesting, expressive face, and his sweet, love starved Papi is so endearing.  Him standing in front of the fancy restaurant waiting for an Angel that would never come broke my heart!  I think he and Indya have a ton of chemistry, and I hope Papi starts truly believing he is worthy of love.  Maybe those crazy kids will find each other when their footing is bit more even in how they think of themselves.

Angel getting the modeling gig made me so happy!!!  Indya is so, so gorgeous...like...wow.  But. BUT.  I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

Billy Porter doing his thing on that mic at the balls makes my heart so happy.  PrayTell is soooo damn good at commanding the space. 

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2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

It's cheap but it's everywhere. Every drugstore in the country sold in 1990. It's great exposure. Angel was right to stay - when she started to leave I thought, girl, this is your shot! (I actually didn't love the picture they chose, but hey.)

13 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Angel is so drop dead gorgeous! When she didn’t win that Ford contest, I kept thinking “aren’t they going to get her gigs and, if not, there are other agencies.” But “Wet and Wild”? That is the cheap makeup (and, yes, I’ve bought it!). Well, it’s a start.

Wet n Wild brought back some memories. It was everywhere and I bought it too. I didn't like the photo of Angel that they choose either, but I agree that it was great exposure. It won't last, but I loved seeing Angel's career take off and how happy everyone was for her. 

Edited by SimoneS
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I hope Papi hasn't had a setback because of what happened with Angel.  I say that because I got a little worried when he was late for dinner and I wondered why he was late.  I just hope he didn't say "fuck it" because he was angry and depressed, and went back to dealing drugs.

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4 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Angel and Papi -- again, on the surface, star-crossed lovers who just can't make the timing work -- underneath for Angel, the struggle of having in front of her two things she desperately wants --one being unconditional love from Papi; the other, the opportunity to have her womanhood validated outside the community with no conditions or qualifiers. She's "normal."

As someone who has been through what she has, who only wants to be loved for who she really is, Angel knows that unconditional love is realistically only going to come from someone in her community. And there is Papi offering it to her.

I adore that she put love of herself and the importance of finally being accepted as a woman without condition over validation of her woman-ness from a man. The fall (and we know it is coming), is going to be heartbreaking for her (and us to watch), but I still feel she made the right choice -- potentially life-changing career opportunity or a potential relationship -- the quintessential decision most women have faced at one point or another.

And Papi, with his new sense of self-worth rather than allowing himself to be knocked down again. , standing up to Angel, saying he is just as good as -- and better in many ways -- than the "beautiful people" -- again, wonderful character development.
 

Wonderful analysis. I love this. I just hope the writers can execute it in a way that values Papi's character and isn't just Angel using him for comfort/settling for him when her flash in the pan fame burns out. It would be unfair to him if he's on the sidelines hoping to be her security blanket whenever her career has a hiccup.

Edited by SnarkEnthusiast
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Awww Papi and Angel are just so adorable! I dont blame Angel for taking the modeling gig (life without cell phones was rough!) but my heart just broke for Lil Papi standing outside alone waiting on her. I hope they can make it work though, and that she can have her dream of making it in the fashion world without leaving him behind. She was so happy getting that job I couldn't be too mad at her though. 

I was nervous that he would be all mad at her, but while he was understandably hurt, he was also so happy for her to succeed and was so supportive. It was also great to hear how much he has worked to turn his life around, getting a legit job, not dealing, getting his GED. They both deserve so much! 

Wow Wet and Wild bringing back the nostalgia! They were my first eye liner!

Elektra and the corpse was both funny, sad, and sweet with how everyone came together, especially how despite everything, Elektra and Blanca so quickly went back into their mother/daughter dynamic. As much as a pain as Elektra can be and as much as the ladies give each other shit, they have each others back. 

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I wrote on Twitter and I'll write it here. The scene of Papi and Angel after the photo shoot where he encourages but also says he's worth something is basically the scene we needed but never got between Andy and her boyfriend in The Devil Wears Prada.

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I love Papi and he just broke my heart with that speech to Angel. I'm so glad they are doing more with him this season. He was barely there last season. This season he's been shining.

As soon as they started talking about getting rid of the dead body I knew what they were going to do. So crazy.

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20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Ah the years before the ubiquitous use of cell phones. I don't blame her for taking her opportunity, as ridiculously timed as it was.  Opportunities like that don't come along often.

But I did feel bad for Papi; however, I did like how maturely he took it. 

No cell phones, but Angel knew what restaurant they were eating at;  I suppose she could have said "Can we take 10?" whenever they were supposed to meet and then called the restaurant from the studio's phone to pass along a message.  I mean I don't blame her either, but that would have been one option.

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10 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

. If you haven't checked out the Pose playlist on Spotify, I highly recommend it.  I had my office grooving yesterday. 

So this is the second best news I got all week (the first one is starting a new job yesterday!) 

By the end of the episode I was "Team Papi!"  though it took me a moment to remember what he actually did last season (I forgot he used to sell drugs.) He has done his best to clean up his life. The speech was a bit hokey, but dammit, I bought it. 

Not sure why Electra decided to see Blanca first.  Maybe she wanted to be talked into doing the "right thing" only for her to realize that going to the police wasn't going to fly?  There was something humourous about the entire cover up, even when you were snapped out of it by the prostitute's story.  I didn't know that it was based on something real. The things you learn. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 7:58 PM, Scarlett45 said:

This was a much lighter, fun filled episode even with the dead body. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention but is Electra keeping the body indefinitely?

How true, Scarlett45. A dead body, who died from choking on his own vomit appears grim, but actually provides a lot of laughs. I got the impression that Electra was going to have this cocoon roommate for the rest of her life, or until he's skeletal and more disposable. I do love how Electra always comes to her 'daughter' when she needs to be 'real'. BTW - Is Angel a transexual? How can she 'pass' when she's trying on bathing suits with other models?

On 6/25/2019 at 7:58 PM, Scarlett45 said:

This was a much lighter, fun filled episode even with the dead body. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention but is Electra keeping the body indefinitely? Or will she get rid of the truck after the publicity of Paul going missing dies down?

Angel looked amazing. 

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3 hours ago, Chalby said:

BTW - Is Angel a transexual? How can she 'pass' when she's trying on bathing suits with other models?

Yes, she is transgender, and a tight tuck is undetectable from most angles.

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3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Yes, she is transgender, and a tight tuck is undetectable from most angles.

Do you think the people at W&W know that she's transgender?

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Maybe it's just me, but I saw Paul's death coming from a mile away.  The whole time Elektra was killing time, filing her nails, etc... I was cringing.

Great episode!

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On 6/26/2019 at 10:06 PM, mtlchick said:

So this is the second best news I got all week (the first one is starting a new job yesterday!) 

By the end of the episode I was "Team Papi!"  though it took me a moment to remember what he actually did last season (I forgot he used to sell drugs.) He has done his best to clean up his life. The speech was a bit hokey, but dammit, I bought it. 

Not sure why Electra decided to see Blanca first.  Maybe she wanted to be talked into doing the "right thing" only for her to realize that going to the police wasn't going to fly?  There was something humourous about the entire cover up, even when you were snapped out of it by the prostitute's story.  I didn't know that it was based on something real. The things you learn. 

I know right, you could not make this shit up.

22 hours ago, DrSparkles said:

Do you think the people at W&W know that she's transgender?

No, she might be in for a horrible fall but I hope not.  Last season people were afraid Angel might get murdered by a John like her real life counterpart and I was relieved it did not happen in the show.

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On 6/25/2019 at 7:58 PM, Scarlett45 said:

This was a much lighter, fun filled episode even with the dead body. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention but is Electra keeping the body indefinitely? Or will she get rid of the truck after the publicity of Paul going missing dies down?

Angel looked amazing. 

Yes, but that really seems like a terrible idea.  They couldn't take a too wong Foo road trip to the nearest desert and bury the cocoon?  What if one of Elektra's boys accidentally opens it?  This is going to be michael alig all over again.

It just seems like the world's worst way to dispense with a dead body.  Not to mention creepy as hell.

On 6/27/2019 at 10:32 AM, Pristine said:

Maybe it's just me, but I saw Paul's death coming from a mile away.  The whole time Elektra was killing time, filing her nails, etc... I was cringing.

Great episode!

I was jealous!  $650 an hour and I get to spend 20 minutes on break?  

.....and then all of a sudden I wasn't jealous at all.

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:10 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

What did Angel do with her check?  She would have got that loooong before the campaign would have been in-store.  Now comes this butterfly's breakout from the Blanca cocoon.  How can this possibly work well?  I am sad to contemplate what must be coming.

Denim Ball?  Pray Tell done lost his mind!  One thing that is actually problematic is that Angel would never lose any "modeling" related trophy in a Ball.  She could wear the proverbial potato sack and earn straight 10s.  

It's a matter of time before angel gets clocked by someone who recognizes her from the ball scene.  Especially if Vogue has made it less of a super underground thing.

On 6/25/2019 at 9:28 PM, LittleIggy said:

Angel is so drop dead gorgeous! When she didn’t win that Ford contest, I kept thinking “aren’t they going to get her gigs and, if not, there are other agencies.” But “Wet and Wild”? That is the cheap makeup (and, yes, I’ve bought it!). Well, it’s a start.

I don’t know how there couldn’t have been a smell from that trunk. I do know that Natron was used in ancient Egypt to desiccate corpses for mummification. Don’t know if you can buy that now. Loved the silicone injection lady.😆

I like silicone injection lady too and I feel awful about it because her cut rate injections are dangerous.  But her over the top affect just tickles me.

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On 6/27/2019 at 4:22 AM, ClareWalks said:

Yes, she is transgender, and a tight tuck is undetectable from most angles.

Candy's tuck must be the tightest because men are looking at here right in that area and that bikini was...a bikini 😲 

I mean they are drunk and it's dark, but still you'd have to be pretty confident.

Also, UO, but I think candy is beautiful.  She is a hot mess but I think she is pretty and could pass for sure.

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:19 PM, Irlandesa said:

Ah the years before the ubiquitous use of cell phones. I don't blame her for taking her opportunity, as ridiculously timed as it was.  Opportunities like that don't come along often.

But I did feel bad for Papi; however, I did like how maturely he took it. 

If only he has still had the pager!  What's pager code for "imma have to miss our dinner something came up"?

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On 6/26/2019 at 12:28 AM, LittleIggy said:

Loved the silicone injection lady.😆

She was my favorite!! When she said "neverrrrrrrrrrr" about helping a friend of Candy's I died. 

This was one of the best episodes yet.  The fashion!! The music!! I loved it all. 

I feel like they are setting Papi up for something really dark/sad. 

Elektra is going to have to move that cocoon. I'm assuming she won't go back to hellfire, so she will have to move out of that fancy apartment at some point.

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Dorian Corey never had to move the suitcase with his ex's body. (It was only discovered after Dorian died). I don't think Elektra has any intention of ever moving her suitcase, either. It's dramatically powerful that she has to live with it for the rest of her life, and I won't be surprised if the writers decide not to revisit this again.

If the police didn't know that Paul had an appointment at the Hellfire Club (and so they never showed up to ask any questions about his disappearance), then Elektra's coworkers probably have no idea that anything went wrong. I don't think she'll have to quit her job unless she wants to.

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I've thought about it, and I don't think calling the police would have been a terrible idea.

It's the 90s, NYC, a super alpha masculine finance executive......I think once his family found out who elektra was and what he was doing......it the story she COULD tell the press.....I think his family would have wanted it swept under the rug ASAP.

As much of an asshole as he was, sweeping it under the rug and just saying he died of a heart attack or whatever with some made up story would have allowed them to bury him and collect on his life insurance.

It's not nearly as dramatic as the cocoon and it wouldn't have allowed silicone injection lady to get involved, but I'm not sure if telling the police would have been the disaster everyone thought.

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2 hours ago, RealReality said:

I've thought about it, and I don't think calling the police would have been a terrible idea.

It's the 90s, NYC, a super alpha masculine finance executive......I think once his family found out who elektra was and what he was doing......it the story she COULD tell the press.....I think his family would have wanted it swept under the rug ASAP.

As much of an asshole as he was, sweeping it under the rug and just saying he died of a heart attack or whatever with some made up story would have allowed them to bury him and collect on his life insurance.

It's not nearly as dramatic as the cocoon and it wouldn't have allowed silicone injection lady to get involved, but I'm not sure if telling the police would have been the disaster everyone thought.

That’s possible, but the police still would’ve arrested Electra, and even though she’s had bottom surgery I don’t know if she’s had her ID and legal gender status changed yet. Best case she in a woman’s jail and subjected to violence there....all waiting for things to be “swept under the rug”. No no I agree with the ladies, calling the cops was a bad idea. 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

That’s possible, but the police still would’ve arrested Electra, and even though she’s had bottom surgery I don’t know if she’s had her ID and legal gender status changed yet. Best case she in a woman’s jail and subjected to violence there....all waiting for things to be “swept under the rug”. No no I agree with the ladies, calling the cops was a bad idea. 

She waits in jail now - maybe a woman's jail.  But if she gets caught with the body now there isn't sweeping it away at all.

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11 minutes ago, RealReality said:

She waits in jail now - maybe a woman's jail.  But if she gets caught with the body now there isn't sweeping it away at all.

Or she stays free and goes about her life like she’s doing. This was 90- There was no GPS in his car, no pings from cell towers, it’s likely no one knew he went to the dominatrix club at all. He most likely paid with cash for every session (not a credit card that could be tracked). 

Comparing the scenarios I agreed with the ladies that staying far far away from the criminal justice system was the best idea. If they had met in a coffee shop and he died with several other witnesses, that’s one thing, but the system wasn’t going to be just towards Elektra. I wouldn’t have risked my life especially when she didn’t do anything and had nothing to feel guilty about. 

Thats just my perspective. 

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7 hours ago, RealReality said:

It's the 90s, NYC, a super alpha masculine finance executive......I think once his family found out who elektra was and what he was doing......it the story she COULD tell the press.....I think his family would have wanted it swept under the rug ASAP.

A family might want to sweep it under the rug but they'd probably have little power to do so as far as the legal system is concerned.  A family's recourse might be by hoping media doesn't cover it much and telling others a lie about how he died.  It's even easier if they live outside of NYC given that the internet wasn't ubiquitous in 1990. 

But all of that wouldn't help Elektra much.

At first I thought the story was out there but given what has been shared in this thread about it happening in the past, I'm changing my mind on that. 

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3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

A family might want to sweep it under the rug but they'd probably have little power to do so as far as the legal system is concerned.  A family's recourse might be by hoping media doesn't cover it much and telling others a lie about how he died.  It's even easier if they live outside of NYC given that the internet wasn't ubiquitous in 1990. 

But all of that wouldn't help Elektra much.

At first I thought the story was out there but given what has been shared in this thread about it happening in the past, I'm changing my mind on that. 

I don't know, the world including police and prosecutors may dislike gay and trans people, but I don't think they would hate them so much that they would ignore the request from a rich and powerful family.  He was important enough for his disappearance to make the paper, so I assume his family was pretty powerful.

But, I guess it could have gone either way.

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7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Or she stays free and goes about her life like she’s doing. This was 90- There was no GPS in his car, no pings from cell towers, it’s likely no one knew he went to the dominatrix club at all. He most likely paid with cash for every session (not a credit card that could be tracked). 

Comparing the scenarios I agreed with the ladies that staying far far away from the criminal justice system was the best idea. If they had met in a coffee shop and he died with several other witnesses, that’s one thing, but the system wasn’t going to be just towards Elektra. I wouldn’t have risked my life especially when she didn’t do anything and had nothing to feel guilty about. 

Thats just my perspective. 

I guess for me it's a risk reward....at this point elektra is renting the apartment and she lives with other people.  There are so many opportunities for the body to be discovered.  Candy and silicone injection lady will keep a secret.  But would those boys keep it quiet if they saw it?  What if someone comes in to do emergency work in her closet and they open it for whatever reason?

I understand that in the case you all have referenced the body stayed hidden for 15 years.  But I think of Michael alig who killed someone, but his entire community knew and no one ever told the cops but there was so much buzz and talk about it that eventually it couldn't be ignored.

In aligs case, he poorly disposed of the body which was his downfall.  If Elektra and the gang had properly disposed of the body, the calculus would be totally different..  but it's right there in her closet.....and that seems so dangerous.

Edited by RealReality
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11 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't know, the world including police and prosecutors may dislike gay and trans people, but I don't think they would hate them so much that they would ignore the request from a rich and powerful family.  He was important enough for his disappearance to make the paper, so I assume his family was pretty powerful.

It did make the paper.  At the same time, he was passed up for promotion and if his family were truly powerful, I would think he'd keep moving up the ladder.

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26 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It did make the paper.  At the same time, he was passed up for promotion and if his family were truly powerful, I would think he'd keep moving up the ladder.

True, but his lack of a promotion may speak to how truly terrible he was at his job, not his family influence.  Your family connections can get you in the door, but I don't know how far it can push you up if you're really not good at your job or your up against someone else with family influence.

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Cops also did not much brook the "weird" or "fetishists."  As far as many of them were concerned, if something bad happened to them, it was a type of karma.  And much macabre mirth followed.  

Elektra was right to be out of her mind.  She may easily not have been aware that the boys in blue would have had some sympathy for her.  The real wild card is the vic's family.  Would it be enough that they could cash in a life insurance policy?  It would be some serious period of time without the body.

I still don't understand how Angel was not sent on other shoots after her successful Wet & Wild effort.  The word would have quickly gone out about her.  Such a fresh and unique face!  Sure, those other campaigns may not have materialized, but she would have had the work, and worked with some other major photographers.  

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10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I still don't understand how Angel was not sent on other shoots after her successful Wet & Wild effort.  The word would have quickly gone out about her.  Such a fresh and unique face!  Sure, those other campaigns may not have materialized, but she would have had the work, and worked with some other major photographers.  

She may have been. It’s only been one episode, and they flashed us forward to the end to show her campaign. 

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On 6/28/2019 at 7:05 AM, qtpye said:

I know right, you could not make this shit up.

No, she might be in for a horrible fall but I hope not.  Last season people were afraid Angel might get murdered by a John like her real life counterpart and I was relieved it did not happen in the show.

Who is Angel’s real life counterpart? 

I love this show so much! I am hoping for some Malcolm McLaren from his “Waltz Darling” album. It was part of my life soundtrack in 1991, and was all about the ball scene in NYC. The whole album is great!

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Angel appears to be based on Venus Xtravaganza, from the documentary Paris is Burning. She was a very pretty trans prostitute, who gave almost word-for-word the same speech about wanting a man to take care of her that Angel gave in the pilot.

Midway through filming Paris is Burning, she was strangled to death by one of her clients.

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