S03.E13: AKA Everything

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SERIES FINALE!

Quote

An old friend visits Jessica as she sets out on an agonizing mission and learns the true cost of being a hero.

Original air date: 6/14/19

Edited June 15, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Loandbehold]

Should this be Episode 13 instead of 12?

[rogvortex58]

And just like that. The show is done.

No happy ending for Trish. She’s off to the raft. I’m sure she and Diamondback will get along great. Hogarth is gonna die alone. Malcolm seems the only one who came out on top. He gets to run Alias. And Jessica is going to just give up and leave everything behind. Until she hears Kilgrave’s voice in her head.

Maybe she’s not done fighting. But in the end what did she really get out of doing the right thing? I think the worst thing is after everything she went through to stop Foolkiller and save Trish she still lost everything because of him. Even in death he wins.

[swanpride]

Well, I am pretty p... off. I was already pretty angry about what they did to Trish in the second season but I thought "okay, they might fix it in the third season". But nope, they doubled down. It feels like the show is constantly tearing down Trish to make Jessica look better. I know that Jessica Jones is supposed to be inspired by film noir and that this kind of prevents any kind of happy end, but it is possible to overdo it.

Plus, it kind of felt like Trish got portrayed as some kind of villain just because she was unhappy with the notion of being forced into a role her mother chose for her.

[NeenerNeener]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:12 PM, swanpride said:

Well, I am pretty p... off. I was already pretty angry about what they did to Trish in the second season but I thought "okay, they might fix it in the third season". But nope, they doubled down. It feels like the show is constantly tearing down Trish to make Jessica look better. I know that Jessica Jones is supposed to be inspired by film noir and that this kind of prevents any kind of happy end, but it is possible to overdo it.

Plus, it kind of felt like Trish got portrayed as some kind of villain just because she was unhappy with the notion of being forced into a role her mother chose for her.

Trish = Daenerys Targaryen. Although I think the Jessica Jones writers did a bit better job with her descent from hero to villain. It wasn't quite so abrupt.

Edited June 15, 2019 by NeenerNeener

[TheWereCow]

Trish's arc actually made some sense -- even in S1, she wanted what she thought Jessica had, and when she finally got what she thought it was, it didn't make her who she thought she wanted to be. Tragic, but reasonably well executed. Throughout the whole series, Jessica was more like Dorothy than Trish -- she knew who she was, warts and all, and owned it. 

Benjamin Walker = yummy. For all that, the most underwhelming thing about S3 is that the Marvel TV universe went out with a whimper, not a bang.

[swanpride]

It came to the cost of something which was worth way more than having a "tragic" arc, which was the idea that two woman who are different have actually very similar goals when it boils down to it. Plus, the could have made Trish recognizing the downsides of being a "hero" without turning her into a completely unlikeable shrew.

And once you put it in a bigger context, Trish's story has a very gross aftertaste. I mean, the thing they established about her in season 1 is that she spend her whole life trying to escape the image her mother had built around her and, by extension, the expectation society has towards a woman. The way her story ended it comes off as if the show is now saying that she was wrong to even try.

[Catfi9ht]

Welp, not as craptastic as season 2, but it wasn't good either.

Jessica was written differently this season and not for the better. There were also alot of extraneous scenes and plot points especially regarding Trish's story.

When Jessica confronted Trish at the end for being self righteous and exactly like her mother, that about summed up the whole season for me.

Highlights this season for me were Erik and the single-scene chef who was supposed to be one of Sallinger's victims.

I look forward to seeing Krystin Ritter in other roles.

[bettername2come]

I know this is ridiculous, but I expected this season to end with the spinning ship thing from Infinity War showing up. Like, since they keep saying the Netflix shows take place before that they would bring it right up to the line, and then potentially come back after the cooling off period and have Disney pick up events in this universe following Endgame. 

I was glad to see Luke showing up. Honestly with the death of Marvel Netflix, I think it would've been nice to see the other Defenders one last time. Even Kilgrave's voice was a nice surprise. I liked the visual with the purple light shining on the ticket. No idea what that means Jessica's doing next, since she seems to have decided not to leave but already gave Alias to Malcolm.

The Marvel Universe really needs to establish like a midgrade prison for normal powered people. Like, sure you need The Raft if you want to hold Scarlet Witch, but Trish doesn't really warrant that kind of sentence. She doesn't even have superstrength. 

[Cranberry]

Well, I hated that. Jessica and Trish's relationship was one of the best things about season one. The writers made a mistake torpedoing that in season two, and instead of fixing that mistake this season, they doubled down on it and ended up leaving Jessica without the one person in the world she truly loves. That's some bleak shit.

I get what they were going for, forcing Jessica to make the hard decision with Trish that she couldn't make with her mother, but they had to sacrifice Trish's character and season one's message to do it. After this, I'm not sorry the show is done.

[Sakura12]

I liked it. It was better than season 2. I was one that never really liked Trish even in season 1. So her descent into madness made sense to me. She wanted fame just as much as her mother. She just wanted her own fame. I'm not even sure teenage Trish would've latched onto Jessica if she didn't have powers. Being around Jessica made her special. 

I'm glad that Jeri didn't get what she wanted in the end. Kith knew she was toxic and would continue to ruin people's lives for her own gain and she probably didn't want to watch someone die again. 

I think the Luke Cage cameo was showing us that Jessica still has someone. I'm sure if they were able to continue they would've put Jessica and Luke back together. Don't know if they would've gotten to Danielle their daughter but I can imagine that happening in a few years now. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

Just had a read of these threads, to see whether I was going to watch season 3, after the shit-awful job the writers did with every single character in season 2. Looks like I can cross it off my watchlist.

Season 1 had a really compelling, strong relationship between two compelling, strong female characters, and it had a cool redemption story for a guy who got caught in the machinations of evil. Season 2 ruined all that, had Jessica become a gullible sap, Trish become a drug addicted narcissist, and Malcolm just kind of sit around whining about everything. It looks like season 3 fixes none of those problems.

Makes me kind of happy that Netflix canned their Marvel stuff, to be honest. The creative people clearly weren't up to the job.

[swanpride]

I noticed that the Netflix shows were at their best when they were doing something which was more or less pulled from the comics. The moment they had to come up with their own stories, the floundered, hard. The exception of Iron Fist....there it was kind of the other way around, the show was at its best the further it went away from the original stories. I guess partly because they didn't have the budget to do them justice anyway.

[millennium]

On 6/15/2019 at 7:23 PM, NeenerNeener said:

Trish = Daenerys Targaryen. Although I think the Jessica Jones writers did a bit better job with her descent from hero to villain. It wasn't quite so abrupt.

You beat me to it.   It wasn't a perfect transition, but much, much better than GoT.    Although Trish's pivotal realization "I'm the bad guy" seemed weak given the situation.  More like "I'm a mass murderer."

Kith's about-face seemed unlikely.   At the top of the hour she was embracing Jery in gratitude; forty-five minutes later she's cold as ice. 

The Erik character was a failure from the start, IMO.  Weak, uninteresting and ultimately useless to anyone but Trish.

I applaud the series for using a transgender actress (Gillian) and not including dialogue or action to point out that she's transgender or that she's different in any way at all.    That's how it should be done.

[Slovenly Muse]

On 6/18/2019 at 5:48 AM, Cranberry said:

I get what they were going for, forcing Jessica to make the hard decision with Trish that she couldn't make with her mother, but they had to sacrifice Trish's character and season one's message to do it. After this, I'm not sorry the show is done.

I think a rewatch will be very kind to Trish's arc throughout the series. She has ALWAYS had a slightly "off" perspective of Jessica's powers (and superpowers in general). Her drive to not be helpless, powerless, led her down a dark path, and I think that path was there from season 1. The through-line of the series is about trauma, abuse, and the cycle of violence. Jessica figured out how to break the cycle, accept what happened to her, and try to move forward. Trish never did. It doesn't mean they don't love each other, or that Trish was never a meaningful or worthwhile character - between the two sisters is a nuanced exploration of the lingering effects of trauma and helplessness, and the nature of power. I really enjoyed it.

On 6/21/2019 at 3:42 AM, millennium said:

Kith's about-face seemed unlikely.   At the top of the hour she was embracing Jery in gratitude; forty-five minutes later she's cold as ice.  

At the top of the hour, she was riding high on freedom from of her lawsuit, believing that Jeri had dug up dirt on Dominic and leveraged it against him. Forty-five minutes later, she'd been held hostage by the crazed psycho Jeri had sent to "solve" her problem by murdering it. What could be a clearer illustration of the fact that Jeri will never change, no matter how much BS she spouts about wanting to make things right?

I am going to miss the hell out of this show, as imperfect as it was. I loved the way superpowers were present, but the real strength or weakness was in the psyche of whoever was wielding them. It kept the series very grounded and character-focused, and highlighted that Jessica's main foes were never really super powered villains that could be smashed into submission with super-strength, but real societal problems, like toxic masculinity, male entitlement, and the savage aftereffects of trauma. The fact that Veronica Mars is coming back helps a little, but really, no one else is telling stories quite like this, and losing JJ is a real blow.

[thuganomics85]

By itself, this was a decent enough finale.  But like Game of Thrones (heh, seems to be a common theme), this really felt like a case where better build-up would have made it better.  I guess it might have always been there, but I really felt like we needed more time to see how Trish's "addiction" and need to be a hero like Jessica drove her into madness.  Instead, she seemed to go from wannabe vigilante into crazed mass murder in about a few seconds.  Eh, I just didn't buy it.  Might have been because while I generally have enjoyed Rachael Taylor here, I didn't think she quite pulled it off.

So, when it was all said and done, Kith was just here to show that Jeri is likely going to die alone.  Yep, I still think this was just because they didn't want to lose Carrie-Ann Moss, but they just couldn't think of an actual good story for her.  What a waste.

Malcolm somehow comes out ahead.  Well, other than the whole pushing Zaya away thing for good since he seemed to truly love her, but other than that?  Pretty much a win!

I do like the idea of Erik and Costa forming a partnership.

Jessica almost leaves, but then she hears Kilgrave's voice mocking her and changes her mind?  Sure.

All in all, better than last season, but still a step down, and the Netflix Marvel series seems to end with a whimper.  I thought for sure that this was going to be my favorite after the amazing first season, but I think this will end up falling behind Daredevil, since that has two good to great seasons, and even its weakest one had the great Punisher arc.  I guess that edges out the show with the best season out of all them, but then two mediocre follow-ups.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/15/2019 at 10:35 PM, TheWereCow said:

Benjamin Walker = yummy. 

Totally, totally agree.

[peachmangosteen]

On 6/15/2019 at 10:35 PM, TheWereCow said:

Benjamin Walker = yummy. 

On 6/23/2019 at 10:05 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Totally, totally agree.

I'll third this. I'm gonna miss watching him. Someone get him on a show again asap!

[Anela]

I thought it was rather a positive ending for this show, despite Trish being taken away. That last bit was odd, but it seems like that guy will be improving himself by helping the cop - I liked their meeting - and he will still be around. So will Malcolm. 

Glad that Jeri didn't get her happy ending, just because she did the right thing (finally). 

Anyway, Jessica still has all of them. She isn't alone. Luke Cage showed up - he's there, too. It's weird seeing her at peace with being a superhero. 

[Anela]

On 6/23/2019 at 10:05 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Totally, totally agree.

On 6/25/2019 at 6:42 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I'll third this. I'm gonna miss watching him. Someone get him on a show again asap!

Throwing my hand up, too. He reminds me of someone who used to be in my life, looks-wise, and a little personality-wise. Damn.

[Ms Blue Jay]

36 minutes ago, Anela said:

Throwing my hand up, too. He reminds me of someone who used to be in my life, looks-wise, and a little personality-wise. Damn.

I'm even considering watching a movie that looks really silly, "The Choice" just to see him in it.  Who am I kidding I will likely watch it.  

[ganesh]

On 6/18/2019 at 6:48 AM, Cranberry said:

That's some bleak shit.

This wasn't a show that was going to have a happy ending but I still don't really knew what to make of it. Jessica basically lost her entire family. 

On 6/21/2019 at 4:42 AM, millennium said:

I applaud the series for using a transgender actress (Gillian) and not including dialogue or action to point out that she's transgender or that she's different in any way at all.    That's how it should be done

I honestly had no idea. 

I'm glad Costa is back on the force, and Malcolm is in a better place to do good. 

[Blue Plastic]

Didn't they have enough notice to do a better series finale than that?  Maybe I just unreasonably want all stories tied up in a neat bow at the end, but I really hate not having at least some idea of what the main character is going to be doing.  Deciding to leave (not sure how moving to El Paso would have gotten her away from people who needed help but whatever), giving away her PI business, then deciding she's going to stay after all?  I just really hate that.  It doesn't have to be set in concrete but give me a hint, show!

I get that they couldn't take an alcoholic character who had a bleak and hopeless outlook on life for 3 seasons and then turn her life into sunshine and rainbows in the final minutes of the last episode, but gee whiz.  She loses her best friend/sister and doesn't really have anyone else.  Erik seemed like an okay possible boyfriend but they did make him a little weak.  I thought they were cute together earlier in the season when he said she helped his headaches, but then he betrayed Jessica, really.

Jeri's ending was bleak too.  I would have been interested to see her take another stab at some "powered" solution to her illness.  That could have brought her story arc more into Jessica's instead of having her sort of coexisting in the same show but not much to do with the main action.

[Paloma]

4 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Jeri's ending was bleak too.  I would have been interested to see her take another stab at some "powered" solution to her illness.  That could have brought her story arc more into Jessica's instead of having her sort of coexisting in the same show but not much to do with the main action.

The last thing I would want is for Jeri to get powers! She is such a selfish person (notwithstanding her love for Kith, which I also consider selfish because Jeri wanted to get back the person whose life she ruined twice before, mainly so she would not die alone). She would undoubtedly use powers for personal gain--not necessarily as a villain, but definitely not as a hero. 

Besides, her ending wasn't terribly bleak. She didn't get Kith, but she can live in beautiful and luxurious surroundings and can afford the best of care. It doesn't make the ALS any better, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for her.

[Blue Plastic]

I’m seeing her trying to get powers and either she dies trying or gets them and dies anyway.  She’s a bad person but eventually she’ll have to have strangers taking care of her at home and be entirely at their mercy or she’ll have to go to a nursing home. A ritzy one no doubt but still scary as she slowly loses the ability to even breathe on her own. I just think that death is horrifying.

[Loandbehold]

9 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Didn't they have enough notice to do a better series finale than that?

I thought the third season had already been shot when Netflix canceled it. But according to this article, the showrunner decided in summer 2018 that this season would be the last, or at least her last seaon. Then Netflix canceled it in 2/19. So, even if the entire season had already been filmed, it looks like this was the ending the showrunner had in mind.

9 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

(not sure how moving to El Paso would have gotten her away from people who needed help but whatever)

She wasn't moving to El Paso, that was the closest place to Mexico that she could get to by bus. And, since Mexicans apparently don't have the internet, or crime, nobody would bother JJ there.

I took the ending as Jessica deciding to stay in the City and continue fighting the good fight. I also wondered if Hogarth was going to kill herself since she told Kith that she was the last mistake Jeri would make.

[Taryn74]

47 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

She wasn't moving to El Paso, that was the closest place to Mexico that she could get to by bus. And, since Mexicans apparently don't have the internet, or crime, nobody would bother JJ there.

Ha!

Quote

I also wondered if Hogarth was going to kill herself since she told Kith that she was the last mistake Jeri would make.

That was my assumption as well.  I'm glad that the show didn't hit us over the head with it (because that always annoys me, plus Jeri is a really horrible person and I didn't care about her at all anymore by this point) but it was pretty strongly implied IMO.

[dwmarch]

21 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Jeri's ending was bleak too.  I would have been interested to see her take another stab at some "powered" solution to her illness.  That could have brought her story arc more into Jessica's instead of having her sort of coexisting in the same show but not much to do with the main action.

I was surprised they never did go this way with Jeri's story. In The Defenders, Sigourney Weaver's character was trying to extend her life by digging up some dead dragon juice. Runaways did a similar plot over two seasons. And by now Jeri must realize that she's surrounded by supers who have solved a colorful variety of problems in their lives by having powers. But here's Jeri Hogarth, trying to solve her problems by falling in love with an ex. Maybe such a plot would have clashed with Trish's must-have-powers-at-all-costs plot. Nonetheless, I am surprised Jeri never looked at the option of a mystical/magical/powered solution.

[Jacks-Son]

On 6/17/2019 at 7:42 AM, Catfi9ht said:

I look forward to seeing Krysten Ritter in other roles.

You could always try, "Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 ".  She's Jessica Jones w/o powers, but still acerbic. 

Anyway, now that its over, I can finally post this:

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[Catfi9ht]

8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

You could always try, "Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 ".  She's Jessica Jones w/o powers, but still acerbic. 

 

Thanks for the recommendation! I watched it and loved it. To this day, I still think DTB has one of the best pilots in tv history. It's the one example I can point where "opening scene in a wacky situation" is unpredictable and well written. The show also gave us this gem.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I love Krysten.  I've tried a few bad movies where she had thankless roles but nothing good to report back so far.

[benteen]

In Season 1, Jessica and Trish was one of the great TV friendships.  I see now why they spent two seasons destroying it...I just don't think it was worth it in the end.

Annoying as Trish was, I actually think it's too bad these shows aren't more connected to the MCU as I think the Trish character would be a great addition to The Thunderbolts.  For those not familiar, the Thunderbolts are Marvel's version of the Suicide Squad, a bunch of ex-villains that the government sends out on missions.  They are supervised and led by a superhero.  I believe Hawkeye was the original leader and Luke actually led a team as well.  Trish would be a logical addition to that team.

It was nice to see Luke again, probably the last time we'll see Mike Colter in that role.

Season 3 was definitely better than Season 2 but I was mixed on it.  Krysten Ritter was always terrific but I think these Marvel Netflix shows (with the exception of Daredevil) clung to a rigid formula of darkness and storytelling and was too afraid to deviate from it.  I think that's what hurt many of these shows.  Still, I will miss this one and of course Daredevil.

Hogarth deserved to be alone, particularly when she lied again to Kith after confessing everything.  Though I still found myself feeling bad for the character even if she didn't deserve it.  So kudos to Carrie-Anne Moss there.

What the hell with the Malcolm storyline?  His personal life is a mess, it doesn't really get resolved (we just see it continue to be a mess) and then it ends with a brief scene of him getting Jessica's company.  I suppose having a messed up personal life is a requirement for Alias Investigations.

I liked the Erik character but Jessica was right to cut him loose.

LOL on them suddenly throwing winter coats and hats on everyone in the opening scene to hide Ritter's pregnancy.

I guess Jessica is going to be a superhero at the end in NYC.  Always good to see a David Tennant "appearance."

Edited July 3, 2019 by benteen

[Chaos Theory]

I know there is an entire section that hates Trish but she was always my favorite character.  Even more then Jessica Jones at times.   I loved her this season.  I am a big fan of a good downward spiral and when comics and genre shows write a good downward spiral it often becomes my favorite storyline and Trish Walker's downward spiral was so much fun to watch.  I loved the scene where she finally realized she was the bad guy.  

If Netflix still owned this I would so much watch a spinoff with Trish in super power prison and have her either escape or get released to find her redeption....or revenge.  You know either/or.

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

If Netflix still owned this I would so much watch a spinoff with Trish in super power prison and have her either escape or get released to find her redeption....or revenge.  You know either/or.

I watched, and loved, ABC's "Revenge", with Emily VanCamp for that sole reason.  VanCamp was a badass who took no prisoners and kicked plenty of ass.

[unicorn23]

On 6/18/2019 at 8:48 AM, Cranberry said:

Well, I hated that. Jessica and Trish's relationship was one of the best things about season one. The writers made a mistake torpedoing that in season two, and instead of fixing that mistake this season, they doubled down on it and ended up leaving Jessica without the one person in the world she truly loves. That's some bleak shit.

I get what they were going for, forcing Jessica to make the hard decision with Trish that she couldn't make with her mother, but they had to sacrifice Trish's character and season one's message to do it. After this, I'm not sorry the show is done.

This is exactly how I feel. Season one showed us how much these two love each other and how much they each meant to each other and seeing that slowly devolve in season two and then have it blown up in season three just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm just going to pretend the show ended in season one.

Thanks a lot, writers.

[SarahPrtr]

You know what word I absolutely hate hearing at the moment?  Hero.  So sick of that word.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I ended up watching this season slowly while on the treadmill. It ended up being a great way to get through it. Not that this season was bad, and better than season 2, but still not as great as season 1.

You could really tell that they had no idea the show was going to get cancelled until these last couple of episodes. I think it was more obvious with the end scene, with Jessica just about to leave town but then not leaving. I feel like they would have had a plan if they had been told much earlier that the show would be cancelled. That way, so many stories wouldn't feel so open ended.

I was thinking that Trish would have died in this finale until she got captured and got taken away instead. For me, I think that Trish has gone way too far and her realization that she's the bad guy didn't really work for me. Again, I feel like they tacked that on after the show was cancelled. I don't even know how true my assumptions are, but the show definitely steered in that direction for me.

Malcolm's storyline was open ended because it feels like he had more to give. Same with Jeri, who I assume would have died in the real series finale if they had really known this was the series finale earlier (and why she was suddenly broken up with; like Jeri, I was confused with the about-face from Kith). 

The good thing about this season was getting back to the core characters of Jessica, Trish, and even Malcolm. Jessica/Trish getting to interact again was worth it. I'm not a fan of Trish (I was in season 1) but I do think they set up her story quite nicely.

Overall, I did like many parts of season 3. The villain of Sallinger was fantastic, I liked the few new characters they brought in, and they got back to the core of Jessica/Trish. But there were also many elements missing from this season that I wish weren't missing. I feel like, if there had been a season 4, it would have fixed the Trish/Jessica relationship. I get why they had planned to drag it out another season. Alas, they got cancelled before we could see that relationship mending so we're left with more questions than answers.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

(and why she was suddenly broken up with; like Jeri, I was confused with the about-face from Kith). 

Honestly I think it was 100% the right move from Kith.  I think she realized that Jeri reaching out to her after all these years was, once again, All About Jeri and Kith was just over it.  Jeri ruined an entire family's life because she wanted to have her 20-years-past girlfriend back so she wouldn't die alone.  It's not like she discovered what Kith's husband was doing and then reached out to Kith.  She reached out first and then had Malcolm dig up whatever he could find that she could use against the husband.  She wasn't thinking about Kith at all, and she certainly wasn't thinking about their son and what this would do to him.  What a selfish, selfish move.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Honestly I think it was 100% the right move from Kith.  I think she realized that Jeri reaching out to her after all these years was, once again, All About Jeri and Kith was just over it.  Jeri ruined an entire family's life because she wanted to have her 20-years-past girlfriend back so she wouldn't die alone.  It's not like she discovered what Kith's husband was doing and then reached out to Kith.  She reached out first and then had Malcolm dig up whatever he could find that she could use against the husband.  She wasn't thinking about Kith at all, and she certainly wasn't thinking about their son and what this would do to him.  What a selfish, selfish move.

THIS!! My only complaint that Kith initially acted like she wanted to be with Jeri again (I was yelling at the TV "Why would you forgive her?"), but then I figured it was good because it drove the knife in a little deeper when Kith made her final exit.

[benteen]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 5:22 PM, unicorn23 said:

This is exactly how I feel. Season one showed us how much these two love each other and how much they each meant to each other and seeing that slowly devolve in season two and then have it blown up in season three just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm just going to pretend the show ended in season one.

Thanks a lot, writers.

Yeah, watching how things played out in Season 2 and 3, it was not worth destroying the Jessica and Trish friendship.

[swanpride]

Trish was my favourite character in season one. I thought her attempts to "guard herself" were interesting, how she fell into an abusive relationship and then fought back once she realized that what sounded heroic at first was actually toxic masculinity, her wanting to escape from the image her mother built around it and the whole backstory about Jessica helping her to escape her mother, hence forging a tight friendship between two very different women, all this was great. I also assumed that after she escaped her mother, she went to college and did study journalism or psychology or something like that.

And then they went in the second season and destroyed the whole backstory by having this puzzling story about her being sexually abused as a child (and I didn't necessarily mind the idea, I minded how it felt thrown in because it was the "hot topic" if the year, there was no true exploration of the implications), and Jessica of all people encouraging her to go back to her mother to help with her drug addiction. REALLY????? That was the WORST idea I ever heard, and frankly, how the show in general keeps excusing toxic mothers grated on me.

It just hurt to see two seasons of Trish constantly getting punished for the big crime of wanting to do something with her life what matters instead of conforming to what society expects her to be. The first season dealt with a lot of difficult issues, but it truly explored them and, in a way, was empowering. It was a depressing kind of empowering, but it felt great to see women survive what life was throwing at them, scarred, but never truly giving up. Seeing two seasons of the same women writing their own rules, with one of them being framed as "right" because she happens to be the main character of the show and the other basically being there for the purpose to make the lead look better...it was like the show reinforcing the idea that women are nasty backstabbers who can't have a true friendship with each other.

[Anela]

It showed both women give up catching the bad guy, in order to save the other. I don't think that Trish was painted in a bad light to make Jessica look better. 

[Jacks-Son]

I'm probably wrong on this, but I'll throw it out there and if somebody knows what's what, please correct me.  My impression of Trish (and I too loved the relationship between Trish and Jessica) was that she was a canon character in the comics known as Hellcat.  From my quick search on the story of Hellcat, it was written in the comics that she ended up having to go to jail.  So, from my perspective, the Netflix writers didn't destroy Trish, her imprisonment was Canon.  Blame the comic book writers, I guess.

[swanpride]

Her imprisonment was, but you could have done this without making the character completely insufferable.

[benteen]

The funny thing with Trish is, in her original incarnation, her character in the comics is almost as old as Captain America.  I believe we see some old Patsy Walker comics in the flashbacks and I'm pretty sure those are real.

[Jacks-Son]

On 7/10/2019 at 2:16 AM, swanpride said:

Her imprisonment was, but you could have done this without making the character completely insufferable.

You can't make her too sympathetic otherwise you take a chance that her incarceration was unjustified and risk backlash from the fans. As it is, I can accept that Trish went too far and had to make restitution by going to jail and hopefully, when she returns, she has a decent shot at redemption.

Jessica, being the only person who could bring Trish in,  did so with a heavy heart. However, it's better that Jess brought her in than some trigger-happy rookie, who might shoot to kill.

[swanpride]

Au contraire! If she had been more sympathetic, the scene would have been more heart-breaking. Hell, they could have even made a point about her experiencing more backlash than she should have exactly because of her fame.

[Cranberry]

The Raft isn't a normal jail, though. They've talked about it before on this show:

"There's a special prison built for people with abilities. It's called the Raft."
"Yeah. I read about it. Prisoners have no contact with the outside world, and they never return to it."

"And just so we're clear, the Raft is completely remote. No visitors. You'd be in solitary confinement 23 hours a day."

No one's coming away from that having gotten better. (No one's coming away from it at all, unless they're an Avenger and Steve Rogers himself breaks them out.) That's part of why I hated this storyline so much. Trish is powerful, but she's not so powerful that she needs to be locked in an impenetrable underwater fortress. She's also not the type of evil that should be sentenced to 23 hours of solitary confinement every day. She killed some hideous people while grieving her own mother's brutal murder; she clearly wasn't in her right mind. Damnit, I'm still mad and I finished watching this trainwreck almost a month ago.

[Jacks-Son]

On 7/2/2019 at 9:14 AM, Catfi9ht said:

Thanks for the recommendation! I watched it and loved it. To this day, I still think DTB has one of the best pilots in tv history. It's the one example I can point where "opening scene in a wacky situation" is unpredictable and well written.

I stepped into a trap of my own making.  After recommending DTB to you, and you said it had one of the best pilots in TV history, I went searching for the pilot.  Hulu had both seasons available, and now I can't stop watching.... Help!!!!  I've got so many other shows in my queue, I really shouldn't be watching this, but Krysten Ritter is so outrageous and her attitude and behavior is awesome to behold.

[Sakura12]

I felt Trish's arc was in character. I saw her as someone that was addicted to fame as much as her mother. She just wanted to be famous on her own. I saw that from season 1. It was never about helping people, it was about helping herself feel better. However I do agree that she should not be sent to The Raft. Her powers barely register as powers. She has enhanced agility and night vision. Hardly things that can help her break out of a regular prison.  The raft should be reserved for the actual dangerous powers, that can be used to break out of a regular prison.