S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[Lady Iris]

While they were sitting around the fire contemplating the potential last hours of their lives, I so hoped Tyrion was gonna bust out the donkey and honeycomb joke....to completion.

[YaddaYadda]

Tyrion to Jaime: They remember what happened the last time Targaryens brought the dragons north. They'll come around when they see Daenerys is different.

Please Tyrion, stand in front of the class and explain what happened the last time the Targaryens brought their dragons north. 

As far as I remember, there was no war, no burning, no northmen died or anything of the sort. Aegon never crossed the Neck during the conquest, Alysanne went for a visit and Jace went to Winterfell for an alliance. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[lucindabelle]

So the Night King erases this world. Then what? He self-destructs? That's pretty lame as a motivation.

[Snowball II]

Something I thought was interesting: at one point, Jaime tells Tyrion that he was sleeping with his sister in a tone that made it sound like he realized how messed up it was.  Has he ever done that, before?  I don't recall Jaime ever having that attitude about sleeping with Cersei, he was always unapologetic about it.  I thought it was a nice little moment of character development, but maybe this sort of thing has come up before, and I'm just not remembering.

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Sansa and Dany was really good. Nice they were both shown as focusing on the politics of what happens after.

Sansa was, Dany's not there yet, shown by her pulling her hand away and facial expression.

Then they go to Theon and Sansa scene, and Theon bows to Dany, but pledges to Sansa.

Dany's face is WTF, people love her, even former enemies respect and fight for the Starks.

[KungFuBunny]

4 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

So the Night King erases this world. Then what? He self-destructs? That's pretty lame as a motivation.

Well he wants to get rid of mankind and/or to wants to kill all living beings and turn them into wight walkers under his command.

But I don't understand what he gets once he accomplishes that. The zombies don't seem to have independent thought.

[Maximum Taco]

4 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Well he wants to get rid of mankind and/or to wants to kill all living beings and turn them into wight walkers under his command.

But I don't understand what he gets once he accomplishes that. The zombies don't seem to have independent thought.

He was designed as a weapon of revenge so the Children of the Forest could eradicate the First Men. He doesn't have a motivation beyond destruction. 

Presumably the Children first intended that he destroy all the First Men, and then the Children had a method for killing him (dragonglass?) 

It's kind of like a rogue AI in my view. They had a purpose for him, and then he expanded his purview.

"I'm supposed to kill all the First Men, but then the Children will kill me. What if the First Men come back after the Children kill me? Clearly the only solution is to kill the Children, so they can't kill me, and then kill all the First Men. That way I can wait around and if any more First Men show up I'll just kill them then"

Edited April 22, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[ImpinAintEasy]

I still can’t get Jenny’s song out of my head. So haunting and amazingly appropriate for this episode and the rest of the series. While the song fits so well with all of the characters, I can’t help but think that it may fit Dany the most. She will get the throne in the end, but will never enjoy it. She will be haunted by all of the Ghosts of loved ones she had lost. 

The episode surprised me. I don’t know if it was because I was expecting the remaining episodes to be a whirlwind of plot,plot, plot! But to have such a character driven episode with so much foreboding poignancy really floored me. I’m not a cryer, yet I welled up several times.

I’m sure a lot of fans are frustrated that they would do an episode like this, and for that matter the premier, with only 6 episodes to spare, but it was sorely needed. I have a feeling the next 4 are going to be so loaded with action, plot,tragedy, and death that an episode like this will be more appreciated. 

Speaking of death. Goodbye Gendry,Jorah,Theon,Podrick,Tormund,Grey Worm,Beric, and possibly Brienne(though I think she and Jaime will survive).  

[lucindabelle]

3 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Well he wants to get rid of mankind and/or to wants to kill all living beings and turn them into wight walkers under his command.

But I don't understand what he gets once he accomplishes that. The zombies don't seem to have independent thought.

Exactly. He gets power: but for what?

Cersei wants a dynasty. Other rulers want wealth.

What's in it for him?

[KungFuBunny]

13 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

So the Night King erases this world. Then what? He self-destructs? That's pretty lame as a motivation.

Just a different thought,

Maybe he wants to get to Bran not to kill him - but to find out if there is any way for him/or possibility for him to change back to a man.

[GrailKing]

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Too bad that unlike Dany, the people in the North only care about each other and have no use for people who don't look like them or are different from them.

14 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It's not racism, they give the same stink eyes to Dany, Jorah, Tyrion, Jaime, the wildlings, it's not the skin color. It's fear of strangers, foreigners and a history of how the north has suffered.

You want the north to except them, you have to wait until those strangers prove it, next week.Those two little girls had no racism, they are scared.

Dany still has a one track mind.

[Constantinople]

Quote

He's made mistakes. Serious mistakes. As have we all. He owns his and learns from them - Jorah about Tyrion

Even better would be a Hand who didn't make one blunder after another

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I still can’t get Jenny’s song out of my head. So haunting and amazingly appropriate for this episode and the rest of the series. While the song fits so well with all of the characters, I can’t help but think that it may fit Dany the most. She will get the throne in the end, but will never enjoy it. She will be haunted by all of the Ghosts of loved ones she had lost.

It was beyond. Not gonna lie, it made me tear up, even this morning when I thought back on it. 

I think the song will apply to anyone who will manage to survive all of the coming destruction. But wearing crowns is a very lonely business.

[GrailKing]

12 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

It doesn't exactly paint the Starks in the best light that all their subjects in the North are so blatantly racist that even little girls are basically like "eww brown people" when Missandei got too close to them.  I mean...... yikes.  No wonder Grey Worm and Missandei want to get as far away as possible when the war is over.

No.

Fear of strangers, fear of foreigners, it's not color.

Those two little girls didn't care about skin color, they DON'T know these people, and the North have history to back them up.

They give, Danny, Jaime, Tyrion, Tormond, the Eyrie , etc. the same stink eye and fear and they ain't brown.

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

It bugs me that they spent so much of this episode focused on whether Tyrion should remain Hand, and no time at all between Dany and Missandei, who in my mind is much more astute than Tyrion and should be Hand (or at least a high-level advisor).  Missandei, Grey Worm, and the others came to Winterfell for YOU, Dany!  You could at least remember they're there.

Maybe this is the point; she's using them as a means to an end.

No matter what Dany does, whens she's shown along side Sansa she comes off un happy, her words to Jon " what does the warden of the north say " he goes with Sansa.

When Theon returns, he bows to Dany, but chooses Sansa and Winterfell over her.

They show Grayworm and Missandei, she's alone and isolated, he sees there is nothing in this land for them, and I think he see's Dany wanting the lands more then anything else.

She and Sansa came close, after Dany said I'll be Queen, Sansa asked what about the north, explained her people, and Dany pulled her hand away and changed her face.

Dany has no plan or isn't ready to go there yet.

If Sansa survives, I can see her win this argument, maybe not total independence, but something close.

[Growsonwalls]

I think one issue the writers didn't anticipate was that IMO Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke simply don't have the off-the-charts chemistry that would make this "for incest or power" storyline compelling. It's not really the fault of the actors as we've seen them have plenty of screen chemistry with other characters. But with each other? Not so much. In fact to me they always look like those couples on the third date who don't really want to break up but aren't jumping on each other every chance they get either.

[GrailKing]

Brienne " I don't want to be a Knight "

Podrick thinking " why do you lie to him and yourself " points; liar,liar pants on fire.

[Maximum Taco]

12 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

She and Sansa came close, after Dany said I'll be Queen, Sansa asked what about the north, explained her people, and Dany pulled her hand away and changed her face.

Dany has no plan or isn't ready to go there yet.

If Sansa survives, I can see her win this argument, maybe not total independence, but something close.

I think the issue here is Dany has never really had to worry about people standing in her way until now. 

In Slavers Bay/The Bay of Dragons, she killed people who she thought were bad. Slavers and child killers. 

Against Cersei, no one is against her. Everyone who Dany respects or cares about would prefer Cersei to be dead. 

If Sansa decides to assert Northern Independence though and is willing to fight for it, will Jon support Dany's desire for a united Seven Kingdoms? From what we know about him, probably not, Jon sees the need for a united front of the living against the dead, and if Dany's sticking point is his crown, he'll happily surrender it. But if they win the War for the Dawn and Sansa and the Northerners still want independence, will he go to war against his sisters and their house? Would he forgive Dany if Sansa, Arya and Bran die in that war after surviving the War for the Dawn?

Moreso, could Dany count on other Westerosi houses to support her war? The Vale is already staunchly in Sansa's camp, and you can assume that if the Tullys reemerge to fill the vacuum of power in the Riverlands they will also stand with the Starks. Theon has been shown to probably favor loyalty to the Starks over his oath to Daenerys, can she count on the Iron Islanders? Her other allies in the Seven Kingdoms, the Tyrells and Martells are dead, will whoever emerges from the Reach and Dorne support her? 

Even moreso, will Sansa's stand against Targaryen rule inspire those other High Houses to secede from the Seven Kingdoms as well?

Dany is being faced with the prospect that she may have to carve a bloody swath through people she likes (even loves if it comes to Jon) and respects now. She's not fighting against monsters or shadows anymore. Everything that has happened so far this season has been pointing towards that. From Sansa's obstinance, to meeting Sam and realizing she killed his family, to now Jon's revelation that his claim to the Iron Throne may be better then her own. 

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Dany said something along the lines all my life I have been waiting to take the Iron Throne.

I thought the story was Vyserys and his pregnant mother were whisked into hiding. Dany was born, mom died in childbirth, and Vyserys would be King if they ever had the chance. Dany was never meant to be Queen - I don't think Vyserys was ever going to marry her. Dany was to be married off to the highest bidder - which came sooner than later as Vyserys used her to buy an army.

The "All my life" is a crock

Yeah, either the writers conveniently forgot about Viserys or Dany expected to be his queen. However they both had contracts for marriage to the Martel kids. Whether or not those contracts would have been honored is another matter. 

[Growsonwalls]

Did y'all see this? Love Sesame Street's GoT parodies.

[ImpinAintEasy]

1 minute ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, either the writers conveniently forgot about Viserys or Dany expected to be his queen. However they both had contracts for marriage to the Martel kids. Whether or not those contracts would have been honored is another matter. 

Daenerys and Viserys had no idea about the marriage pact with the Martells, though. So she absolutely grew up believing she would be Viserys’ Queen. 

[Sakura12]

Would the North accept Jon is he's a Targaryen? Isn't that a reason they are distrustful of Dany. Yes he's a Stark from Lyanna but we see how much they don't really care about the female line. He's also a grandson of the Mad King

[huahaha]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think one issue the writers didn't anticipate was that IMO Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke simply don't have the off-the-charts chemistry that would make this "for incest or power" storyline compelling. It's not really the fault of the actors as we've seen them have plenty of screen chemistry with other characters. But with each other? Not so much. In fact to me they always look like those couples on the third date who don't really want to break up but aren't jumping on each other every chance they get either.

I think Kit and Emilia did have chemistry when they were cast. Then Kit fell in love with Rose Leslie, and Emilia became close friends with her.

Kit goes out of his way to make gagging noises after his kissing scenes with Emilia. Emilia also gives interviews about how awkward it is to kiss her friend. I get why Kit wants to protect his relationship from unfounded gossip, but I do think it hurts the natural chemistry of the story line when you get the sense the actors are freaked out by their scenes.

[MV713]

This episode I just kept thinking, the undead cannot cross water, so why aren't they digging a trench and filling it with water?  The dragons could keep the ice from forming.  

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

No.

Fear of strangers, fear of foreigners, it's not color.

Those two little girls didn't care about skin color, they DON'T know these people, and the North have history to back them up.

They give, Danny, Jaime, Tyrion, Tormond, the Eyrie , etc. the same stink eye and fear and they ain't brown.

I would agree with you IF the characters in those scenes weren't Misandei and Greyworman.  Danny is a Targ, there was no way the Northerners wouldn't give her the stinky eye, Jamie and Tyrion are Lannisters, and Tormond is a wildling, three things the North *hates*. 

Yes, Misandei and Greyworm are part of Dany's group, but I don't see the Northernes giving Jorah the stink eye, and he sold slaves, was disowned and banned from Ned himself. Heck even Davos, who fought side by side with Stannis.

So yeah, I think D&D are making a point here, albeit in their usual awful way. It's a shame because the North is awesome in the books, and on TV they are just idiots.

[Growsonwalls]

As an example of the kind of heartfelt acting Emilia Clarke CAN do:

This scene is actually pretty obviously "green-screened" meaning shot separately and then spliced together. But Dany tearfully "commanding" Jorah to find a cure for his greyscale and then to come back to him is Dany at her best. She's a ruler who is fair and forgiving and who cares about her subjects.

I just don't see that in the Jon/Dany interactions. That level of care, understanding and "I love you even though you make stupid decisions and I sometimes want to throttle you." 

[Sakura12]

Dany's known Jorah a lot longer and they've been through a lot together. It's like Sansa and Theon. Dany and Jon have only been together a short time. 

[Efzee]

19 minutes ago, MV713 said:

This episode I just kept thinking, the undead cannot cross water, so why aren't they digging a trench and filling it with water?  The dragons could keep the ice from forming.  

Where does this theory about them not being able to cross water come from? The NK was clearly holding his undead back to gain time for Dany to come to the rescue so he could steal a dragon. The undead clearly went into the water, walked along the bottom to put the chains on the dragon and then the other undead pulled the dragon out of the water. The undead at the bottom of the sea were probably left there, because the NK has so many undead they're easily disposable.

And at Hardhorne the NK wasn't interested in chasing Jon & co, but he probably could have his undead run after them through the water. Instead, he just stood there, holding Jon's gaze and turned all the dead into the undead to show Jon what he was capable of.

Those are the only two examples I can think of where the undead (who only do what the NK/WW wants them to) were faced with water in the presence of one of the other characters to witness it. So, the characters might think they can't cross water because they haven't seen them do it, but that doesn't mean they can't. Also, the dragonfire (on the snow/ice) dissipated when the NK came near (or the cold he exudes extinguished it) so who's to say the NK can't freeze water and reach the islands/other continents that way?

[FozzyBear]

2 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Exactly. He gets power: but for what?

Cersei wants a dynasty. Other rulers want wealth.

What's in it for him?

I’ve heard some critics talk about the Night King as a natural disaster. I think that makes more sense. He is a famine, an earth quake, global warming. His only motivation is to exist.

[lucindabelle]

1 minute ago, FozzyBear said:

I’ve heard some critics talk about the Night King as a natural disaster. I think that makes more sense. He is a famine, an earth quake, global warming. His only motivation is to exist.

But storms and natural disasters don't plan and aren't conscious. Is the NK conscious? He certainly seems to be.

[Growsonwalls]

11 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Dany's known Jorah a lot longer and they've been through a lot together. It's like Sansa and Theon. Dany and Jon have only been together a short time. 

Eh with screen chemistry I kind of think it's either there or not there. I guess I just don't feel it with Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington. Maybe it's their offscreen relationship which we got a sense of in Kit Harington's SNL performance -- Emilia Clarke could barely stop giggling around him, like they were in middle school. Very Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney. 

This is maybe the best example of instant chemistry I can think of. Sawyer and Juliet had known each other but were always on distant terms. Then in one brief scene you saw the stars in Juliet's eyes:

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

Eh with screen chemistry I kind of think it's either there or not there. I guess I just don't feel it with Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington. Maybe it's their offscreen relationship which we got a sense of in Kit Harington's SNL performance -- Emilia Clarke could barely stop giggling around him, like they were in middle school. Very Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney. 

This is maybe the best example of instant chemistry I can think of. Sawyer and Juliet had known each other but were always on distant terms. Then in one brief scene you saw the stars in Juliet's eyes:

Well Elizabeth Mitchell is a much better actor than Emila Clarke so that helps. 

[Blakeston]

17 hours ago, GraceK said:

Omg and Jon and Dany so many feels!! I don’t blame her for being suspicious. His family  and best friend hates her and now they are setting him as a rival claimant. Makes sense from her end to be wary.   Also, to fight so hard and then put it all on hold to fight for someone you love to just get hit with “ he’s a male so your worthless now “ is like a slap . 

John would be ahead of Dany in the line of succession even if he were female, wouldn't he?

If John were Joan, Joan would still be the only surviving child of Mad King Aerys's first-born child. Daenerys, as Aerys's final child, wouldn't be able to compete with that.

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

No.

Fear of strangers, fear of foreigners, it's not color.

Those two little girls didn't care about skin color, they DON'T know these people, and the North have history to back them up.

They give, Danny, Jaime, Tyrion, Tormond, the Eyrie , etc. the same stink eye and fear and they ain't brown.

The stinkeyes that Grey Worm and Missandei have received in the past two episodes have really stood out to me.

I'm sure some of the random Northerners have given some unpleasant looks to some of the white outsiders as well - but I didn't see any that seemed nearly as pointed.

[Raachel2008]

48 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

As an example of the kind of heartfelt acting Emilia Clarke CAN do:

This scene is actually pretty obviously "green-screened" meaning shot separately and then spliced together. But Dany tearfully "commanding" Jorah to find a cure for his greyscale and then to come back to him is Dany at her best. She's a ruler who is fair and forgiving and who cares about her subjects.

I just don't see that in the Jon/Dany interactions. That level of care, understanding and "I love you even though you make stupid decisions and I sometimes want to throttle you." 

Chemistry is the eye of the beholder. It doesn't work for you, but I'm sure there are shippers out there who think Jon and Dany are fine.

And honestly, it doesn't matter that much. It was pretty obvious from ASOIAF that it was going to happen one way or another.  The problem - if it is a problem is how it is done.

[KungFuBunny]

They showed the forge and Gendry working. I wonder if anyone thought to build a few of those huge crossbows with Dragon glass headed spears to aim at the NK and/or NK Dragon

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

It's not racism, they give the same stink eyes to Dany, Jorah, Tyrion, Jaime, the wildlings, it's not the skin color. It's fear of strangers, foreigners and a history of how the north has suffered.

Riiight, they aren't racists. They just don't like people of color.

Fear of strangers is called xenophobia, it isn't any better. The Northerners spat at Jaime and Tyrion because they're Lannisters, they give the stinkeye to Daenerys because she's the Mad King's daughter. I didn't notice a particular disdain for Jorah. Missandei and Grey Worm have done nothing to them. Ignorance is not an excuse.

A history of how the North has suffered? Thanks to the King Who Kneeled, it suffered less than any other kingdom, bar the Vale, during Aegon's conquest. The Northerners weren't victims of particular discrimination under the Targaryen rule. Even during Robert's rebellion, they suffered less than many southern kingdoms because AFAIR the North wasn't invaded by a foreign army or a theater of operations. If one kingdom gets the gold medal in the Suffering Olympics, it's the Riverlands, not the North.

33 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Eh with screen chemistry I kind of think it's either there or not there. I guess I just don't feel it with Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington.

It's in the eye of the beholder only, indeed. For me, it's there. I feel that their offscreen friendship allows the actors to convey a real and deep connection between their characters. In hindsight, imo, they struggled when they tried to play distant strangers in 7x03.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[Raachel2008]

20 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Omg and Jon and Dany so many feels!! I don’t blame her for being suspicious. His family  and best friend hates her and now they are setting him as a rival claimant. Makes sense from her end to be wary.   Also, to fight so hard and then put it all on hold to fight for someone you love to just get hit with “ he’s a male so your worthless now “ is like a slap . 

But it is not only that. Yes, Jon is a male, but he is  the heir of the throne because he is Rhaegar's son. Jon doesn't jump ahead Dany primarily because he is a man -he jumps ahead her because he is the heir of the Crown Prince and the line of sucession follows the first born.

A poor analogy would be the Windsors: Prince Charles is the Crown Prince, he is the heir of Queen Elizabeth. If he dies before becoming king, the next in line is not Princess Anne, or prince Andrew.  The next in line is Princess William and, if something happens to him, George, then Charlotte, then Louis, not Harry.  Something happens to George, if he has children, his children come ahead Charlotte.

So basically, Jon is Prince William and Dany is Princess Anne.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Raachel2008

[LadyPenelope]

3 hours ago, Fiver said:

Something I thought was interesting: at one point, Jaime tells Tyrion that he was sleeping with his sister in a tone that made it sound like he realized how messed up it was.  Has he ever done that, before?  I don't recall Jaime ever having that attitude about sleeping with Cersei, he was always unapologetic about it.  I thought it was a nice little moment of character development, but maybe this sort of thing has come up before, and I'm just not remembering.

Ugh, this pissed me off no end - he said it like it was so long ago and he has grown and changed since then, conveniently forgetting the fact that his sister is literally pregnant with his child as he speaks. Jaime’s Redemption (TM Jaime) was so overblown and self-congratulatory this episode that I am now actively rooting for Bronn to crossbow him. 

[stagmania]

1 hour ago, Efzee said:

Those are the only two examples I can think of where the undead (who only do what the NK/WW wants them to) were faced with water in the presence of one of the other characters to witness it. So, the characters might think they can't cross water because they haven't seen them do it, but that doesn't mean they can't. Also, the dragonfire (on the snow/ice) dissipated when the NK came near (or the cold he exudes extinguished it) so who's to say the NK can't freeze water and reach the islands/other continents that way?

That WW can't cross water was the entire conceit of the episode where they went on the wight-capturing mission. Dany had to get there to save them before the water re-froze. 

39 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

John would be ahead of Dany in the line of succession even if he were female, wouldn't he?

If John were Joan, Joan would still be the only surviving child of Mad King Aerys's first-born child. Daenerys, as Aerys's final child, wouldn't be able to compete with that.

I think Dany's line about his being a male heir was more about her own issues around being a female ruler and getting people to take that seriously. She mentioned it in her conversation with Sansa earlier in the episode. So his gender is immaterial re: the line of succession, but it kind of adds insult to injury for her to believe she'll be cast aside for a male leader.

[Moxie Cat]

So I was annoyed we didn't get to see Bran's convo with Tyrion until I realized WHY we didn't - and what the abrupt cut reminded me of:

"You're pregnant!" (Cut to Dragonpit.)

So this is my prediction for if we HAD seen that scene:

Tyrion: So you were north of the Wall? That must have been - 

Bran: I know about the deal you made with Cersei.

They couldn't show any more of that scene without giving Tyrion's secret away. Bran knows what's up with Tyrion - recall him staring at him in the first episode. It also makes me think that Bran-with-no-feelings might be OK with whatever deal Tyrion made - and that might make the reveal more shocking when it finally comes out.

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

I think Dany's line about his being a male heir was more about her own issues around being a female ruler and getting people to take that seriously. She mentioned it in her conversation with Sansa earlier in the episode. So his gender is immaterial re: the line of succession, but it kind of adds insult to injury for her to believe she'll be cast aside for a male leader.

That's in line with what Emilia Clarke has to say about Dany's reaction in 8x02:

EW interview about the reveal

This is going to rock her world, as much as it did Jon's. Dany stressed in 7x03 that what had kept her going through all her trials was her faith in herself, which means her identity as she knew it, what she thought she was meant to be. Her whole system of belief is based on it.

From what Emilia says, Daenerys is aware that Jon doesn't want the throne.

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

So the Night King erases this world. Then what? He self-destructs? That's pretty lame as a motivation.

Well, Gendry just described the Wights and Walkers as Death, and in the Season 2 premiere, Tyrion said "Death is so boring"

[Minneapple]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think one issue the writers didn't anticipate was that IMO Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke simply don't have the off-the-charts chemistry that would make this "for incest or power" storyline compelling. It's not really the fault of the actors as we've seen them have plenty of screen chemistry with other characters. But with each other? Not so much. In fact to me they always look like those couples on the third date who don't really want to break up but aren't jumping on each other every chance they get either.

The lack of chemistry really frustrates me. Kit and Sophie have more onscreen chemistry and back in season 6 I was borderline shipping Jon and Sansa because of it. Sophie actually has great onscreen presence with anyone she acts with. Lena and Nikolaj have great onscreen chemistry. It seems everyone has great onscreen chemistry except for the grand love or die couple. 

[mammaM]

Here's a question from the hubby. Would GoT be considered horror as well as sci-fi? If so he's worried about Arya because the girl that shows her boobies usually ends up getting killed, so far Arya's been safe😂

[Conan Troutman]

19 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I really don't understand their aversion to the direwoves. I get they decided to forgo Jon's warging abilities, but Ghost is still important, so they can fuck right off with that.

I'm sure they're looking forward to killing him off.

Wolfs are just more expensive to animate than dragons - the fur is apparently extremely hard to get to look photo realistic (you have to animate a lot of individual hairs or it won't move like it should), no such issues with dragons. Still, they did in the earlier seasons so it can be done. But I guess B&W are saving up their wolf FX budget for the fight scenes, and only have a cheapish version in the background for normal scenes. But there are going to be no excuses next episode, Ghost needs to be featured and I'd expect Nymeria to show up as well. 

18 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

So.. This is the episode where Aryan gets pregnant with the future monarch of the 7 kingdoms... Gendry gets fully named a baratheon.. By Jon or Dany... Maybe posthumously(sp?)  And the baby being king Robert and Ned Stark's grandbaby everyone left alive do what they can to keep it and its mother safe... Arya rules as queen regent until it comes of age.. Jaegon Stargaryen is named hand of the queen.. Sansa stays in the north

Interesting thought for sure. But I guess that's way too far into the future for the show to even tell us stuff like this, maybe Bran if he survives in the epilogue but even that seems like a stretch to me. I'd guess they're going to stick with something more visual and maybe show us a pregnant Arya. Not sure I like the Arya ruling part though, mainly because I don't think she'd even want it. But it would probably be a very bittersweet ending for her, so why not?

16 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

Has show or book ever laid out how long someone has to be dead to not be able to be zombified? Or is there just no limit?  

I'd say it depends on whether are any bones left. If all there's left is dust, what's even the point from the NK's point of view, dirty up the floor a bit? A bit of googling tells me that bones can decay over a couple of decades or stay largely intact over hundreds or even thousands of years under ideal conditions. And the cripts of WF probably qualify as pretty good conditions, so I'd say it's absolutely possible. 

[ImpinAintEasy]

I’m pretty sure they have never used CGI for the direwolves. In season one they used dogs in the actual scenes with the actors. Season 2 onwards they have used actual wolves against a green screen and superimposed them into the scenes, while enlarging them in the process. 

[Growsonwalls]

3 minutes ago, ImpinAintEasy said:

I’m pretty sure they have never used CGI for the direwolves. In season one they used dogs in the actual scenes with the actors. Season 2 onwards they have used actual wolves against a green screen and superimposed them into the scenes, while enlarging them in the process. 

I mentioned this in the other thread but they want to limit the screentime of the direwolves because many people were buying huskies expecting them to be like direwolves and returning them when they found out that huskies might look like wolves but they are goofy, active, athletic family dogs who need a lot of attention and care. What is wrong with people. Have they ever encountered a husky at a park? They're big goofballs.

[Happy Harpy]

I'm still not over that episode. I still tear up each time I rewatch Jaime knighting Brienne. Of course, the closest thing to a Brienne-centric episode had to be one of the most awesome.

Jaime looking at Brienne with heart eyes all the time. "I came to Winterfell because..." OF YOU, Jaime. Those are the words you were going to say. You know it, I know it, so tell her, even if she can't handle it yet :)) 

Gendry's white-hot look at Arya when he catches her watching him. And the way he looks at her, too, before she kisses him.

Brienne Proud Mama bear with Pod.

Tyrion's humor working so well with Bran.

Tyrion filling Pod's cup behind Brienne's back.

Pod and Davos chuckling when Tyrion says they might live.

The Hound's "I fought for you".

Tormund all but glomping Jon Snow.

Ed's vintage zinger "one more sign" it's the end of the world. 

Lyanna Mormont calling Jorah "cousin".

The Winds of Winter had 6 whole seasons worthy of plotlines coming together. A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms did the same with the characters and 7+ seasons. Both gave me everything I wanted and more. For me, they're two faces of the same coin; and a testimony of GoT's range as a show.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[areca]

21 hours ago, mac123x said:

You'll be safe in the crypts.  You'll be with the women and children in the crypts where it's safe.  I'll be in the crypts with my son Sam.  The crypts are the safest place in Winterfell...  Yeah, they're dead.  So many anvils dropping there.

Right?  With all the dead people who were never burned.  I mean...seriously?  Prediction: Jon becomes Azor Ahai and the wielder of Lightbringer (?) by killing !Wight!Ned.

Edited April 22, 2019 by areca

[Andromeda]

4 hours ago, MV713 said:

This episode I just kept thinking, the undead cannot cross water, so why aren't they digging a trench and filling it with water?  The dragons could keep the ice from forming.  

Good idea. I want trenches they can set afire, and while they built one, I would have had three, several yards apart. You know once it fills up with dead wights and the flames die down, they can get through a single trench. I also imagined sowing the plain north of Winterfell with Wildfire that can be triggered once the plain is filled with them. Boom!