S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[TaurusRose]

5 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

You'll be hard pressed to find laws from hundreds and thousands of years ago that aren't sexist by today's standards. The point is back then? They weren't viewed that way.

And as an aside, the queen just did away with that type of nonsense when Kate was expecting her first child.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Timetoread said:

Stannis is not the righteous template even by this show's standards.

Have to disagree slightly...he deserves to sit on the [metal name] throne as King Of Grammar

[MadameKillerB]

Ghost and Nymeria hooking up! That's my biggest "ship." I'd love a last scene of the show with new baby direwolves being born. Circle of life, and all that. Something Stark enduring.

I was a bit surprised that Maisie showed as much as she did but I think it was important for Gendry to see that Arya has scars, physically and psychologically. They are both older and have "lived." (Something, though, seemed like maybe cgi'd out in the ah, nipple area.)

Thoughts:
- Tormund continues to be the Gimli of GOT. That's not such a bad thing, tho.
- Pod can sing as well as please da ladies! I want him with Sansa. She deserves someone who can help her heal from Ramsey. 
- I cried at least twice during this episode. I'm a big softie. (1- "Your father taught me how to be a man" and 2- Ser Brienne)
- the Hound is always the Hound and I love that.
- also loved everyone around the strategy table. Go, Team!
- LOVED all the women getting their say right from the start of the episode (Note: Ser Jorah and Lady Mormont!! Too cute)
- if Jamie fights alongside Brienne, the two sword parts of Ice will be together!
- Jamie walked away and didn't hear Tyrion talk about killing Cersei...I think this is foreshadowing!
- crypts ain't safe. I think that's obvious
- loved seeing all the white walker leaders on horseback at the end. Very ominous and just a gorgeous shot.
- I want Brienne to live and go around knighting women all over Westeros and Essos...I know that won't happen but I want it.
- Please live: Sam/Gilly/LittleSam, Sansa, Pod, Gendry, Arya, Ghost, Nymeria, Bronn
- Don't want them to die but I think they're doomed and/or need to die to serve plot: Theon, Ser Davos, Jorah, Miss/Grey, Jon, Jamie, Tyrion, Tormund, Drogon and Rhaegal, Dany and her baby, knights of the Vale guy from 4WeddingsAndAFuneral, head Dothraki guy

GOD, I wish they'd just released the whole season. I'm dying for spoilers. It's making my stomach hurt with anxiety LOL

[Drogo]

Just now, paigow said:

Have to disagree slightly...he deserves to sit on the [metal name] throne as King Of Grammar

He was so great when he wasn't killing his siblings and kids.

[Popples]

4 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

- Pod can sing as well as please da ladies! I want him with Sansa. She deserves someone who can help her heal from Ramsey.

While I completely understand why Sansa would never want to enter a relationship ever again, a small voice always says, "if she changes her mind, she needs to give Pod a chance."

[TaurusRose]

6 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Perhaps. I agree to disagree whether Jon should have waited to tell Dany about his parentage. I don't agree with subtly shading the people who are okay with his waiting until later to tell her. Opinions are not necessarily facts and I think the situation between Jon and Dany is not necessarily black and white.

Which is why I've decided to believe everyone will die. Then I can be even more relieved by the ones who don't. (Except the Night King. I definitely want him to die.)

It is my opinion that lots of people are more comfortable with lies and deceit than truth.  Better?  I am from the school of ripping off the band-aid and dealing with the reality no matter how unpleasant.  I can't wrap my head around dancing around issues and have never found anything being made better by doing so in my experience.  I totally agree that the situation between Jon and Dany is not black or white.  It is all kinds of shades of gray.  

[cambridgeguy]

29 minutes ago, Wendy said:

Honestly if I was Jon, I would be so upset to find out I was a Targeryan, not only for the history of mental illness that runs in the family but also about the fact that his biological father married his mother and thousands of people died as a result of that union. 

Ironically, if Rhaegar and Lyanna had just come out and announced their marriage that bloodshed would probably have been avoided.  Dorne would have been PISSED but no one really cares about Dorne.  Robert would have erupted in anger too but he couldn't start a rebellion just because his betrothed ended up with the crown prince.

Of course now that the secret is out I look forward to seeing how everyone else reacts.  Bran the robot wanted Sam to tell Jon now so I wonder how this plays into his grand design - presumably there's more to it than "the truth should be known".  I don't think he's playing favorites just because Jon's his brother.

Given how often people have been saying that the crypts are safe, I would love it if the AotD invade the crypts and the fleeing people start shouting about how the crypts are NOT safe.

Edited April 22, 2019 by cambridgeguy

[CeeBeeGee]

23 minutes ago, Wendy said:

Elia had given him a male heir, Aegon. 

Rhaegal might not have been crazy like his father but he was consumed by prophecies and had gotten in his mind that he had to have another child to complete the three headed dragon but Elia's delivery of Aegon was so difficult that she couldn't have any more babies.  There is where Lyanna came into the picture. Lyanna was a willful girl but I often wonder how did she rationalize accepting Rhaegal. By annulling his marriage to Elia he basically made his two children bastards, she enraged Dorne and created a mess only because he wanted a third child. 

Honestly if I was Jon, I would be so upset to find out I was a Targeryan, not only for the history of mental illness that runs in the family but also about the fact that his biological father married his mother and thousands of people died as a result of that union. 

Realistically someone was going to rebel against Aerys. Rhaegar and Lyanna were just the spark--Aerys was widely hated and feared for his sadism.

[kokapetl]

7 hours ago, GSManiac said:

Is it just me or was there a lot of ADR for this episode. 

I’d imagine this show always has lots of ADR. 

[Law Mom]

I still think “breaking the wheel” means literally dividing Westeros back into seven distinct kingdoms. The question is, who would rule them? Here are my picks (assuming any of them survive the wars to come):

The North: Jon as the obvious choice here for KITN, with Sansa as his hand.

The Vale: As much as we hate it, Robin Arryn is the rightful heir.

The Stormlands: Gendry is the reigning Baratheon, and he will have Arya as his Queen.

The Reach: There are no more Tyrells, so the Tarlys are up next, and that points to Sam. Love Wilding Queen Gilly!

The Westerlands: This is Lannister territory, so Jaime should be king here. I’m sure he can find a castle for Bronn.

The Iron Islands/Riverlands: All hail Queen Yara.

Dorne: With no surviving Martells, this is up for grabs, so let Dany have it. It’s the most Essos-like of the kingdoms and she would feel most comfortable there.

[Shermie]

So do we refer to Jon/Aegon as Aejon now?

[Popples]

6 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

I’d imagine this show always has lots of ADR. 

What's ADR? I googled it and it came up with something about the US financial market.

[lucindabelle]

39 minutes ago, Wendy said:

Elia had given him a male heir, Aegon. 

Rhaegal might not have been crazy like his father but he was consumed by prophecies and had gotten in his mind that he had to have another child to complete the three headed dragon but Elia's delivery of Aegon was so difficult that she couldn't have any more babies.  There is where Lyanna came into the picture. Lyanna was a willful girl but I often wonder how did she rationalize accepting Rhaegal. By annulling his marriage to Elia he basically made his two children bastards, she enraged Dorne and created a mess only because he wanted a third child. 

This does not satisfy me though I agree it's all we've got right now.

The reason?

The wedding flashback. That couple looked sweet and innocent. That couple did not look "on the run" in any way. Rhaegar's little loving nose bump.

Starks are honorable. I just can't believe even a willful Lyanna would knowingly take a man away from a loving wife and children.

Yet Oberyn believed that Rahegar left a wife who loved him passionately, for another woma.

Just as sweet artistic Rhaegar as a rapist makes no sense, sweet artistic Rhaegar as a heartbreaker and deadbeat dad makes no sense.

There has GOT to be more in that marriage that we find out about. Elia was cheating on him and they weren't his kids. Something.

[terrymct]

25 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

- crypts ain't safe. I think that's obvious

Winterfell may have some magic in her.  Remember that the white walkers couldn't enter the weirwood tree north of the wall at first.  Winterfell has a big old weirwood right there as a part of the castle complex and they have generations of Starks down in the crypts who seem to have had some magical/mystical abilities running through the family.

[Drogo]

The two halves of Jorah's conversation with Daenerys a) being passed over as her Hand and b) mending fences with Sansa seemed (for me, at least) to be an initial introduction to the idea of Sansa Stark as eventual Hand of the Queen.

[shockermolar]

14 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Yep a mess of people are dying next episode. 

Every single time a significant moment/connection happened I was all, "dammit! she/he is totally dead next week!" To which my 17 yo son intoned, "they're all dying. All of 'em. every single one." Asshole kids.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Bali said:

Not only this but here's where I wish I had been in the war room. They decide that the safest place for the weak and unarmed is in the crypts? REALLY? Excuse me. Excuse me. But the enemy reanimates the dead. So why are we keeping the weak and unarmed where we also keep the dead people? I think everyone in the crypts is dead. Then undead Tyrion walks to Westeros and kills Cersei.

I also think that Varys the spider is the traitor in Camp Danerys.

I think the enemy reanimates the recently dead, not the long dead. The skeletal wights are, I think, deteriorating a bit like zombies, since they can't heal.

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I'm really glad no one piped up with The Rains of Castamere when Tyrion called for a song.

It's the first song I thought of, but this one was much more meaningful.

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Well, unless Bran is way off, the NK's top priority is ending the line of 3 eyed Ravens for eternity. We'll see how they write it, but the military aspect of this show has never been especially well done. I'm at the point where I'll just be happy if they don't have the surviving living making a nonsensical successful retreat back to KL, with The AotD in pursuit.

It's my belief that unless literally everyone is going to die, Bran will survive because he is the TER, and the memory bank  of Westeros.

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Rhaegar may not be a rapist, but he's still a jerk for annulling his marriage and bastardizing his children by Elia Martell

By the way, how you get a unilateral annulment, i.e., without notifying your spouse, and what were the grounds?

There are places in the world today where men can do that. 

[lucindabelle]

Does anyone feel enlightened about what the Night King wants?

Total nihilism. Ok. Then what? Will he self-destruct?

I mean, what's the POINT?

Every tyrant and conqueror in history has wanted something other than destruction of the Other.

NK is working super hard. Why???

(this is a problem with good and evil stories very often. I remember seeing a Lord of the Dance thing a few years back, Michael Flatley too old so produced it. The bad guys literally wore black and burned everything, the good guys literally had unicorns and flowers, it was like being trapped in a black light painting. But what did the baddies WANT?)

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Timetoread said:

The birth right thing was never that valid to begin with, the Targaryans were overthrown.  ANY Targ would need to fight to win it back.   Jon is perfectly welcome to fight for it.  Just not with her stuff.

There was a lot of validity to the Targaryen birthright claim to the Iron Throne.  House Targaryen had ruled Westeros for hundreds of years, and I believe Robert Baratheon seized the throne about 17 years before the story starts.   It is not as though they are trying to reclaim some ancient birthright.  It would be a restoration of a recent dynasty.

Dany originally believed that Viserys was the rightful heir to the throne and supported his claim (though she really didn't have too much choice) until Drogo killed him after he threatened Dany and their unborn child.

I would think that Dany, if she is convinced Jon really is Rhaegar's true born son, would acknowledge him as the legitimate heir.   Then she would need to decide how much she really believes in birthright claims to the IT.   I could see her using all her forces to put Jon on the Iron Throne.

I could also see Jon saying he doesn't want it, and either abdicating (he's done that before) or keeping his lineage a secret.

Of course, either the NK or Cersei and their armies might solve the problem for them, by killing one or both of them.  

[Law Mom]

6 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Does anyone feel enlightened about what the Night King wants?

Total nihilism. Ok. Then what? Will he self-destruct?

I mean, what's the POINT?

Every tyrant and conqueror in history has wanted something other than destruction of the Other.

NK is working super hard. Why???

I think the reason is that the Children of the Forest, who were being wiped out by these new beings called Men, created the Night King specifically for the purpose of destroying Men. It's their only directive.

[lucindabelle]

Just now, Law Mom said:

I think the reason is that the Children of the Forest, who were being wiped out by these new beings called Men, created the Night King specifically for the purpose of destroying Men. It's their only directive.

so they're sort of like automatons now?

[Bryce Lynch]

Regarding the crypts.  Is there any statute of limitations on the NK's ability to raise corpses into wights?  I know it is not the same thing, but Thoros of Myr told Arya that he would not be able to raise Ned from the dead.  

Can the NK raise the bones and badly decomposed corpses of those buried in the crypts or can he only reanimate freshly killed people?   

[Bryce Lynch]

13 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Maisie Williams is 22 in real life. She could have a no nudity clause but she's definitely above the age where it's okay to do nude scenes.

I think the way the scene was done might have reflected the show runners having some of the same discomfort with it as much of the audience.  Ironically, it may have made the scene more awkward for viewers, because the CGI/body sock or whatever, probably signaled to us that we really aren't supposed to be seeing this.  

[Timetoread]

12 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

There was a lot of validity to the Targaryen birthright claim to the Iron Throne.  House Targaryen had ruled Westeros for hundreds of years, and I believe Robert Baratheon seized the throne about 17 years before the story starts.   It is not as though they are trying to reclaim some ancient birthright.  It would be a restoration of a recent dynasty.

Dany originally believed that Viserys was the rightful heir to the throne and supported his claim (though she really didn't have too much choice) until Drogo killed him after he threatened Dany and their unborn child.

I would think that Dany, if she is convinced Jon really is Rhaegar's true born son, would acknowledge him as the legitimate heir.   Then she would need to decide how much she really believes in birthright claims to the IT.   I could see her using all her forces to put Jon on the Iron Throne.

I could also see Jon saying he doesn't want it, and either abdicating (he's done that before) or keeping his lineage a secret.

Of course, either the NK or Cersei and their armies might solve the problem for them, by killing one or both of them.  

She can go ahead and support him, since apparently what a woman wants counts for nothing, but I hope her troops refuse and go home since they are free people.  I simply am rabidly against this story boiling down to Jon Snow having everything fall in his lap because he has a dick.  I don't think he deserves it.  I don't think he's a good leader.  I think he is not much more than a medieval Paul Revere who's unbelievably lucky that someone is always around to save him, and a nice chap.

[Growsonwalls]

I think one issue the writers didn't anticipate was that IMO Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke simply don't have the off-the-charts chemistry that would make this "for incest or power" storyline compelling. It's not really the fault of the actors as we've seen them have plenty of screen chemistry with other characters. But with each other? Not so much. In fact to me they always look like those couples on the third date who don't really want to break up but aren't jumping on each other every chance they get either.

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, MadameKillerB said:

Ghost and Nymeria hooking up! That's my biggest "ship." I'd love a last scene of the show with new baby direwolves being born. Circle of life, and all that. Something Stark enduring.

They were from the same litter. I mean, not that that’s ever been an issue on this show...

[xaxat]

Favorite moment, Grey Worm and Missandei. Everybody else is convinced that they are going to die, but Grey Worm knows that,

the two of them will survive,

the army will win the war,

he will take her anywhere she wants after the war,

they will die together of old age.

Who would have guessed he is a true romantic?

[BitterApple]

16 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

I simply am rabidly against this story boiling down to Jon Snow having everything fall in his lap because he has a dick. 

I've never been a Dany fan, but I am as well. She's had a singular goal this entire time and put in the hustle to make it happen. Jon just sort of stumbling upon the Throne due to Sam's love for literature and Bran's creepy visions? It just doesn't sit well for me. I'd be cool with Jon being Warden of the North and Dany ruling everything else, or the Seven breaking up and having their own rulers. I like Jon, but him as the end game would be a disappointment.

[dirtypop90]

13 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think one issue the writers didn't anticipate was that IMO Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke simply don't have the off-the-charts chemistry that would make this "for incest or power" storyline compelling. It's not really the fault of the actors as we've seen them have plenty of screen chemistry with other characters. But with each other? Not so much. In fact to me they always look like those couples on the third date who don't really want to break up but aren't jumping on each other every chance they get either.

It really lowers the stakes tbh.  They keep telling us Jon loves her (tho I guess Jon himself hasn't said it, just Sansa, maybe they are saving it for the end).  But they don't seem in love and I do think it's part lack of chemistry but also part writing.  Yet, Sansa knew as soon as Jon returned that he was in love with Dany.  What on earth did she see that caused her to make that leap? A lot of telling and not showing.

[DarkRaichu]

41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Can the NK raise the bones and badly decomposed corpses of those buried in the crypts or can he only reanimate freshly killed people?   

Yes, he could manipulate the long deceased.  When Bran reached previous 3ER hideout place, he was chased by a bunch of skeletons raised from the ground

[millennium]

4 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

 But they don't seem in love and I do think it's part lack of chemistry but also part writing.  

Danaerys has spent 7 seasons turning herself into an impregnable fortress.   To hear her gushing "I love your brother" to Sansa simply didn't ring true.  It was as if she was trying to convince herself.   It may be that Emilia Clarke's range is limited.  Or maybe there hasn't been sufficient interaction between them to convince the viewer that they are in love.   Compare the chemistry between Jon and Igritte which was allowed to build over the course of an entire season.  No contest.  

The only two I see as guaranteed to survive the upcoming battle are the Hound and Davos, since both seem to have future dates with destiny.   I suspect Davos will be the downfall of Mellisandre, and the Hound of course must go to the Mountain.

[Growsonwalls]

2 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

It really lowers the stakes tbh.  They keep telling us Jon loves her (tho I guess Jon himself hasn't said it, just Sansa, maybe they are saving it for the end).  But they don't seem in love and I do think it's part lack of chemistry but also part writing.  Yet, Sansa knew as soon as Jon returned that he was in love with Dany.  What on earth did she see that caused her to make that leap? A lot of telling and not showing.

I think that was made more apparent in the second episode when we saw characters who are not "in love" the way they keep saying Jon and Dany are but who have crackling screen chemistry. 

A good example: Dany and Jorah. They're not "in love." They haven't spent any time together since season 6. But the minute they are onscreen together you can see the concern flood over Dany's face and I'm reminded of the time Dany was crying when she found out Sir Jorah had greyscale and she said "You WILL be cured and you WILL come back to me." Those were real, heartfelt tears. 

Dany and Jon don't have anywhere near that level of chemistry for us to be really invested in this love story. And you're right, the writing is a lot of telling and not showing. Whereas with characters who do have that kind of chemistry there's little need to tell. It's all just there.

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

She can go ahead and support him, since apparently what a woman wants counts for nothing, but I hope her troops refuse and go home since they are free people.  I simply am rabidly against this story boiling down to Jon Snow having everything fall in his lap because he has a dick.  I don't think he deserves it.  I don't think he's a good leader.  I think he is not much more than a medieval Paul Revere who's unbelievably lucky that someone is always around to save him, and a nice chap.

I have been rooting for Dany to take the Iron Throne since near the beginning.  But, I don't think you have to put down Jon Snow to support her. 

I don't think things have fallen into his lap.  He was raised as a bastard, and hated by his stepmother.  He went through all sorts of trials (including being stabbed to death by his own NW brothers) with the NW.  He fought a brutal battle to take back Winterfell.  

Few, if any,  characters have had an easy time on this show.  Jon and Dany have both had dangerous and painful paths.   

[BooBear]

Just now, millennium said:

 Or maybe there hasn't been sufficient interaction between them to convince the viewer that they are in love.   Compare the chemistry between Jon and Igritte which was allowed to build over the course of an entire season.  No contest.  

I think that is the problem and I see it as the reason everyone reacted badly to Arya and Gendry. Just not enough interaction to make the audience feel what they are supposed to be feeling, really too bad.  I feel like this show should have actually gone 12 seasons with 10 episodes each to really finish out the story. 

[Drogo]

44 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Regarding the crypts.  Is there any statute of limitations on the NK's ability to raise corpses into wights?  I know it is not the same thing, but Thoros of Myr told Arya that he would not be able to raise Ned from the dead.  

Can the NK raise the bones and badly decomposed corpses of those buried in the crypts or can he only reanimate freshly killed people?   

The Lord of Light has higher standards and needs both a fresh corpse and a reason/higher purpose for the potential resurrectee. 

The NK on the other hand seems to be able to resurrect anyone whose body hasn't been burnt.  (Maybe because the Night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.)

For example, this guy didn't look too fresh:

[DarkRaichu]

10 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I've never been a Dany fan, but I am as well. She's had a singular goal this entire time and put in the hustle to make it happen. Jon just sort of stumbling upon the Throne due to Sam's love for literature and Bran's creepy visions? It just doesn't sit well for me. I'd be cool with Jon being Warden of the North and Dany ruling everything else, or the Seven breaking up and having their own rulers. I like Jon, but him as the end game would be a disappointment.

Actually, this is the best opportunity for Dany to be true to her "break the wheel" persona.  Forget all of the restriction of bloodlines and be the true champion of the people at Westeros.  So what if the elites in Westeros think she is just another invader from the east.  Even if they unite against her and worst case defeat her, at least she is true to her cause.

[LadyChaos]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Except Jon  never said that, or anything like that.

I said this is what I THINK this is what the scene is about, NOT what was actually said.

[Drogo]

Apparently-UO:  I love Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke together, and I think their chemistry is not only existent but palpable.  They certainly make a handsome pair, and I've seen facial expressions in the last 2 episodes I've never seen from either before.

They won't be the giddy lovers we saw them be with Ygritte and Drogo because that was a long time ago: they're mostly solemn characters, we've barely seen them alone together, and nowadays they have quite a bit on their minds, a lot of responsibility between them.  But for what they are at this time, new lovers with a lot of opposition and family baggage?  They're hot.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Wendy said:

Dany's claim to the throne has always been that it was her "birth right" , she has called Robert Baratheon a usurper because he revolted against the Mad King and took the throne. What she fails to mention is that Westeros had lived as 7 independent kingdoms for thousand of years, it was her ancestor Aegon The Conqueror who came to Dragonstone (after they blew up Valyria) and with dragons imposed his rule over each of these kingdoms. The Targaryens were in power only 300 years. 

If now she claims the throne by right of conquest like Robert did, then she will have to admit that Robert was not a usurper, he was a rightful king. This present a problem if she learns that Gendry is the last Baratheon. She better not try something against him or Arya will take care of her for real. 

300 years establishes a dynasty much better than about 20 years.  Plus, there are no true born Baratheon heirs remaining.  Whatever one thinks about the claims that Dany, Jon, Robert, Stannis or Renly had, Cersei is clearly a usurper.  

Gendry is a bastard and would normally have no claim to the throne.  If he ends up sitting on the IT it will be because nobody with a stronger claim is left.  

[CeeBeeGee]

4 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Apparently-UO:  I love Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke together, and I think their chemistry is not only existent but palpable.  They certainly make a handsome pair, and I've seen facial expressions in the last 2 episodes I've never seen from either before.

They won't be the giddy lovers we saw them be with Ygritte and Drogo because that was a long time ago: they're mostly solemn characters, we've barely seen them alone together, and nowadays they have quite a bit on their minds, a lot of responsibility between them.  But for what they are at this time, new lovers with a lot of opposition and family baggage?  They're hot.

The scene on the boat, when he was lying in bed and first addressed her as "my Queen" was hottttttttt.

[Growsonwalls]

13 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I think that is the problem and I see it as the reason everyone reacted badly to Arya and Gendry. Just not enough interaction to make the audience feel what they are supposed to be feeling, really too bad.  I feel like this show should have actually gone 12 seasons with 10 episodes each to really finish out the story. 

Arya didn't say she was in love with Gendry. She presented it straightforwardly as an end of the world booty call, and that's what she got. I think viewers (or more specifically, me) have a harder time buying that Jon and Dany love each other so much that both will make monumental sacrifices because of that love.

[DarkRaichu]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Tormund trying to brag about sucking a giants tits to impress Brienne was the ultimate “weird flex, but ok” moment. 

Hmm, I thought the point of this story was not so much about what he did but about how he got to be so big (ie due to giant's milk).  If his body is big because of the milk, guess which of his anatomy is also big because of the giant's milk. 😉

But yeah he got no game.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Timetoread said:

But can we give her more than 5 seconds to do so?  For the past 7 seasons she's been traversing thousands of miles with one goal in mind.  She has sex with Jon and finds out everything she's done has been invalidated and she's supposed hug him and be his cheerleader immediately.  Why is being human something that is never allowed for her character?

I totally agree.  We don't know what Dany's eventual reaction will be, but her initial one was totally normal, appropriate and restrained.  She just received news that was shocking on multiple levels and had huge implications for her and Westeros.   

It was totally reasonable for her to raise the point that only Jon's brother (well, not really) and best friend were saying he was Aegon Targaryen.   It seemed like when Jon looked her in the eyes and told her he knew it was true, she pretty much believed him.

The one thing I found interesting was that she said, if it is true that Jon would have a claim the Iron Throne not the claim to it.  This suggests she might press her own claim, even if it is proven to her that he Rhaager's true born son.   Of course, she only had about 30 seconds to process this shocking revelation, so there is no telling where she will come down, assuming they both survive the upcoming battle.  

[Law Mom]

Bastards must have some right of succession, otherwise Cersei wouldn't have authorized the execution of all of Robert's bastards. It's the reason Gendry went into hiding in the first place.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, Law Mom said:

Bastards must have some right of succession, otherwise Cersei wouldn't have authorized the execution of all of Robert's bastards. It's the reason Gendry went into hiding in the first place.

The reason Joffrey (I believe it was he who ordered it) wanted them wiped out was because their existence proved that he and his siblings could not be Robert's children. All the bastards had dark hair ("the seed is strong") and Joffrey and his siblings were blonde. After Robert, the next in line was Stannis, not a bastard child.

[Bryce Lynch]

I wonder if Jon's decision to tell Dany before the battle had anything to do with both Ned and Uncle Benjin telling him they would talk the next time they saw each other and then never seeing them again, other than briefly seeing the transformed Benjin in Season 7.

[BitterApple]

5 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Arya didn't say she was in love with Gendry. She presented it straightforwardly as an end of the world booty call, and that's what she got. I think viewers (or more specifically, me) have a harder time buying that Jon and Dany love each other so much that both will make monumental sacrifices because of that love.

I agree. Maybe Jon, because he's a "do the right thing" kind of guy, but I don't see it with Dany. Her first reaction to the Lyanna news was to accuse Jon of trying to usurp her. It wasn't to consider how Jon might be feeling after discovering his entire life was a lie. I think they're mutually attracted to one another and share similar goals, but I don't see their relationship as "ride or die" or one that has any real depth. I know mileage will vary on this one.

[Timetoread]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have been rooting for Dany to take the Iron Throne since near the beginning.  But, I don't think you have to put down Jon Snow to support her. 

I don't think things have fallen into his lap.  He was raised as a bastard, and hated by his stepmother.  He went through all sorts of trials (including being stabbed to death by his own NW brothers) with the NW.  He fought a brutal battle to take back Winterfell.  

Few, if any,  characters have had an easy time on this show.  Jon and Dany have both had dangerous and painful paths.   

I haven't put down Jon Snow.  I never elevated him to begin with.  I don't wish him harm and think he's a nice guy who means well.  I HATED his stepmother for her treatment of him.  Whatever she thought happened wasn't his fault.  He has been through a lot - including dying.  He's fought in battles.

BUT, he would have died in the battle for Winterfell because he was foolishly lured into abandoning his own battle plan in exactly the means his sister warned him he would be. He broke his vows on the KW and brought the Wildlings back with him and forced them down the throats of his men because he was sleeping with one of them which caused the resentment leading to his death.  He was HANDED the title of King in the North by his people who ignored his bastard status, including his sister, but he walked away from it without so much as a care because he had "bigger fish to fry".  Yes the dead coming south is a thing, but he will need the people he abandoned to fight with him. He caused Danerys to lose a dragon because she came in to save him from his foolish mission.  Now the KK has a dragon.  He nearly died again if not for Uncle Zombie Benjen saving him.  He "bent the knee" for the purpose of going down, and put his entire people back  under the subjugation of a monarch they don't know and who he only just met.  He returned to town with a chip on his shoulder, still badmouthing Sansa, who kept the Northern troops prepared to fight with him to the point that ARYA, of all people, had to defend her.  He allowed his dragon queen girlfriend to level a threat at his sister without so much as a word.  Jon is not a saint.  He is not a genius.  He is not a conquering hero.  He's the energizer bunny.  He's the little engine that could.  I like him just fine.  I wish him well. But I have never, NOT EVER, considered him to be a real player in the game for the throne.  Based on his actions or lack thereof. And now, in true deus ex machina fashion, though he's not concocted a single strategic plan that has helped a single person, the throne is his...cuz...you know... entitlement.

[LadyChaos]

Anyone else think that Gendry got a little turned on by watching Arya be a badass.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

The reason Joffrey (I believe it was he who ordered it) wanted them wiped out was because their existence proved that he and his siblings could not be Robert's children. All the bastards had dark hair ("the seed is strong") and Joffrey and his siblings were blonde. After Robert, the next in line was Stannis, not a bastard child.

Great point, though it was Cersei who gave the order.  I don't think Joffrey ever knew he was not Robert's son, though he may have heard rumors.

The bastards might have been a slight, unlikely threat to take the throne, but they were mainly the equivalent of DNA evidence proving Joffrey was a bastard and Stannis was the rightful heir.