S15.E21: Good Shepherd

[lorbeer]

9 hours ago, PrincessTT said:

It makes me particularly sad given that Ma Shepherd knows first-hand how hard it is raising kids on your own after your husband dies.

It really bothers me. Derek is/was supposed to be her beloved son and now she doesn't even want to be in touch with Derek's children? His flesh and blood? (yes, yes I remember Zola isadopted) It doesn't make sense to me. And I'm really annoyed it has never been adressed on the show. They really act like Derek didn't even exist....

5 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

I think my favorite part of this episode was Linc and Amelia eating that pizza. I fess up to being REALLY judgy-judgy when TV shows have people eating "New York pizza" when it is CLEAR that the pizza is nothing of the sort. But in this case, that looked like legit NYP and I loved it and hated it

I'm not from the USA. Could you tell me more about that pizza? What does it make it the 'legit NY pizza'? I wanna know more! It's a sincere request 🙂

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Have we ever seen either of these sisters before? It seems strange that we'd just now be meeting two of Derek's sisters 15 seasons in.

We've met Nancy and Lizzy and Mom. We only have'nt met Kaithleen before that episode.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Hi, Lorbeer ... I'll do my best here and hopefully you can try to imagine it ... 

For starters, here is a Wikipedia entry that explains "New York-style pizza" quite well ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

Growing up in NYC in the 60s and 70s, there were dozens ... nay, hundreds ... of hole-in-the-wall pizzerias that lined the avenues. While you could, of course, buy an entire pizza, the more common practice was to buy a slice or two (or more), with whatever toppings you might want (my order was always "two slice plain").

You'd get the slices (or the whole pizza) on a big old tin tray, sitting on slices of waxed paper, hot and bubbling. The slices would be very thin (especially in comparison to the franchises of today a la Dominos, Papa John's, etc.) ... what a lot of people tend to think of as the unique aspect of NY pizza was that you'd pick up the slice and fold it in half, with the tip dipping down and usually dripping oil onto the waxed paper. 

The cheese would just ooze and stretch (the official slang for it is "cheese pull" but I I seem to recall use of the term stroozle) ... the perfect slice (for me) was the 50-50 combo of hard crust (not like matzo crust but kind of slightly chewy) and bubbling cheese, with just enough tomato sauce underneath.

The big danger was "pizza palate," when you couldn't wait long enough for it to cool off to dive in and you burnt the crap out of the roof of your mouth. 

Thousands have tried to replicate this outside of the greater NY metro area and few have succeeded ... I'd say NYC, Westchester (Roma's in Tuckahoe, which I believe still exists, made killer pizza BUT ONLY SOLD WHOLE PIES, not slices), and northern New Jersey dominated. New Haven pizza is very popular and I like it but it's sort of a different variety. 

There has been some theory that what makes NY pizza different is the water that's used but I am not sure that "holds water" (sorry). 

All I can suggest is if/when you come to the US to visit, don't worry about all the tourist traps in the city ... treat yourself to a true great tasting trip ... I bet a lot of us could put together lists of our favorite old-school pizza places (and I'd ALSO throw in a trip to Papaya King hot dogs on 86th and 3rd Avenue but that's a different topic). 

Anyway ... watching Amelia and Linc at that pizzeria, it looked SOOOO legit my mouth watered (it didn't hurt that I've been on a liquid diet for a few days because of a tongue contusion so seeing two of my favorite foods in one scene was torture). 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

[PrincessTT]

17 hours ago, Joana said:

"Do you see Meredith?" was such a strange thing to ask. Of course she does, they work together. I guess it was supposed to highlight some more how out of touch they are, not knowing Meredith and Amelia live together, but you'd think they'd show at least some interest in their nieces and nephew and ask how they're doing, and instead they just left it at that. 

Even the picture on Nancy’s bookcase was of Mer, Derek & Zola on her 1st birthday - like she doesn’t even have a picture of all 3 of Derek’s kids to display.

Obviously you couldn’t have one of Derek with all 3 kids, but it seemed weird that Bailey and Ellis weren’t on display. 

[AzraeltheCat]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Have we ever seen either of these sisters before? It seems strange that we'd just now be meeting two of Derek's sisters 15 seasons in.

I also thought it was strange that Linc didn't seem to know who Derek Shepard was (or, that he was Amelia's brother, or that he died). Wasn't Derek supposed to be one of the most famous neurosurgeons in the country? Seems like everyone at that hospital knows everyone else's business.

Think someone answered but yes, we've met Nancy before, back in the days when Mark and Addison were around.  She tried to defend A's sleeping with Mark, something to the effect of "so she slept with Mark, everyone sleeps with Mark."  Kathleen we had not met.  Lizzie (Nev Campbell) appeared sometime after the plane crash when she donated a nerve or something to repair Derek's hand [I think that's right]. Lizzie seemed pretty nice and indicated that she wanted to get to know Mer/Der's children and have them know her kids.  Aaaand then we never saw her again.  

And yes, SUPER weird that Linc would not know who Derek is since he's flirted with Meredith/been subject to Jo matching making him with Meredith.  And you know that hospital is full of gossip, Jo would've given him the lowdown on who's who etc.  

Also, I still call BS on NO ONE in Amelia's family not even knowing what Owen looked like.  They would have at least googled him and seen pictures on the Grey Sloan website.  Then again, these are people that did not visit when Mer/Der were in a plane crash [at least that I recall]. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by AzraeltheCat

[iMonrey]

Quote

yes, we've met Nancy before, back in the days when Mark and Addison were around.  (...) Kathleen we had not met.  Lizzie (Nev Campbell) appeared sometime after the plane crash when she donated a nerve or something to repair Derek's hand [I think that's right]. Lizzie seemed pretty nice and indicated that she wanted to get to know Mer/Der's children and have them know her kids.  Aaaand then we never saw her again.  

Same actresses? That wasn't Nev Campbell in this episode was it?

Quote

I'm not from  the USA. Could you tell me more about that pizza? What does it make it the 'legit NY pizza'? I wanna know more! It's a sincere request

Short answer: NY pizza is powdery, flat, and flavorless; but the slices are big and you fold them. That seems to be the criteria and what NYers are always bragging about. {Ducks; runs.}

[Joana]

30 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

Also, I still call BS on NO ONE in Amelia's family not even knowing what Owen looked like.  They would have at least googled him and seen pictures on the Grey Sloan website.  Then again, these are people that did not visit when Mer/Der were in a plane crash [at least that I recall]. 

And another thing - Nancy works at that hospital and she could have easily seen the name of the doctor doing the surgery with her sister and that it's NOT Owen Hunt. Honestly, I'm not even sure why she immediately jumped to the conclusion that it must be him when she saw them together.

The whole thing reminded me of the time Penny just showed up at Meredith's dinner party without having any idea who the host was.

Edit: Neve Cambpell! That's right! Now I remember her. Yes, she was nice and definitely seemed like she'd be interested in having a relationship with her brother's family. So of course it figures we'd never hear from her again.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Joana

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Have we ever seen either of these sisters before? It seems strange that we'd just now be meeting two of Derek's sisters 15 seasons in.

We have met Nancy (Nancypants) before. Season 3 “Let the Angels Commit”. She was “sent” to drop in and see what Derek was up to regarding his divorce from Addison and his relationship with Meredith. She stayed to help Addison out with an OB case. It was also revealed she had slept with Mark (As she put it, who hasn’t).

[BaseOps]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Have we ever seen either of these sisters before? It seems strange that we'd just now be meeting two of Derek's sisters 15 seasons in.

 

 

Yes, we met Nancy (Embeth Davidtz) in season 3. Liz (Neve Campbell), who wasn't in this episode, was in season 9. Kate is the only one we hadn't met before.

6 hours ago, deaja said:

I just don’t think it is plausible- like much of the show though. Like you have this warm supportive family, but the mom pushes away the youngest child during trauma because she reminds her of her father. I think it contradicts what we’ve seen and heard of the character prior to this point. 

It's very plausible, especially in the aftermath of trauma. It's quite common for people (even great parents) to unconsciously project when they're dealing with grief. And it's not like they're suddenly saying that Amelia's mom never loved or cared for her, simply that she allowed Derek to do a lot of the heavy lifting, particularly when things got tough.

We've never really been led to believe that Amelia had a great relationship with anyone in her family. She didn't speak to Derek for years until he got shot, she was incredibly troubled during her youth, and even recently her mom + sisters skipped out on her wedding and have had seemingly no real contact with her since Derek's funeral. 

[askasza]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Have we ever seen either of these sisters before? It seems strange that we'd just now be meeting two of Derek's sisters 15 seasons in.

I also thought it was strange that Linc didn't seem to know who Derek Shepard was (or, that he was Amelia's brother, or that he died). Wasn't Derek supposed to be one of the most famous neurosurgeons in the country? Seems like everyone at that hospital knows everyone else's business.

Link never said that he dont know who derek shepherd was. He probably knew that. I got the imoression that he just didnt know when amelias wedding was, and that her brother was already dead. 

[tomsmom]

Omfg that was painful! 

“You must be Owen”

”Nope. Owen is back in Seattle. This is my colleague Dr. Lincoln.”

The. End. 

Jesus! 

[Ohwell]

53 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Omfg that was painful! 

“You must be Owen”

”Nope. Owen is back in Seattle. This is my colleague Dr. Lincoln.”

The. End. 

Jesus! 

Seriously!  What is wrong with these people?  I actually blamed Linc more for even going along with this crap.

[chitowngirl]

A small part of me wishes that Owen DID go with Amy. His smack down of the sisters would have been epic. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, BaseOps said:

It's very plausible, especially in the aftermath of trauma. It's quite common for people (even great parents) to unconsciously project when they're dealing with grief. And it's not like they're suddenly saying that Amelia's mom never loved or cared for her, simply that she allowed Derek to do a lot of the heavy lifting, particularly when things got tough.

I'm going to fanwank here, but it's based on family therapy.

In dysfunctional families there is often a scapegoat, a designated patient or identified patient, a family member on whom all the dysfunction is dumped so that the family as a whole stays together. Strangely often this is one of the stronger members of the family, someone who can take being the scapegoat.

When Pa Shepherd died, Ma pushed Amelia away because she reminded her of him. The other three girls decided that Amelia was a screw-up and dumped on her.  (I don't know if Derek did too or he was just too young to do anything about it.) As the youngest and without her father or the support of her mother, there was nothing Amelia could do but accept the label.

Amelia not only got into college and then med school, she became a neurosurgeon, the most prestigious specialty (a psychiatrist like Kathleen is low tier, maybe she's jealous) and is good enough that Catherine Fox picks her to do her own surgery. We hear about about her being a screw-up and Amelia herself accepts the designation but we don't see it except in her emotional relationships and her lack of self-confidence, and now we know where that comes from.

5 hours ago, Joana said:

And another thing - Nancy works at that hospital and she could have easily seen the name of the doctor doing the surgery with her sister and that it's NOT Owen Hunt. Honestly, I'm not even sure why she immediately jumped to the conclusion that it must be him when she saw them together.

Nancy is temporarily running obstetrics while the official head is away. She may not even work in that hospital regularly. But even if she does, there's no reason for her to go to the surgical floor and look at the OR board to see who is operating. She wouldn't care.

Jumping to the conclusion that it's Owen emphasizes how little Amelia's family knows about her life. Amelia jumping to claim Linc as Owen shows how much she wants to impress her sisters and show that she's successful no matter what they think of her.

9 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I took it to mean that Ma Shepard owned up to her part in failing Amy while she was growing up, but if Amy is going to wallow in it and everything is “poor me, my family ignored me”, that’s on Amy. At some point you have to move beyond your upbringing and who you become from it is on you.

One of my favourite book titles ever is Paula Caplan's Stop Blaming Mother.

But in Amelia's case, it wasn't just when she was growing up though, it was still going on two years ago when Amelia was begging her to come to her wedding, it was the night before at dinner when Ma didn't say anything to stop her two older daughters from picking on and mocking Amelia. Thirty years of being treated like that can't be overcome with a "That's on me. If you can't get past it, that's on you."

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I have nothing to add about the great dysfunction that is the Shepherd family. I'll just say that Linc can add another impressive accomplishment to his list of Amazing Things About Amelia: she apparently can walk 14 blocks around NYC in very skinny stiletto heels -- managing to wear them for the entire episode (presumably she changed for surgery?).

Ha! I winced when I saw those shoes. Last time I went to NYC for work I wore a pair of booties with a flat heel that's about an inch and a half high. I had worn them several times and they were perfectly comfortable. But after walking 15 blocks from the train, then all over our offices (which take up six floors) through the day , then back to the train station...my feet were killing me (and I had a massive blister on the ball of my foot). My train home was delayed for a couple hours and I ended up at TGI Fridays at Penn Station because I just couldn't walk any more to find someplace better to eat.

But my coworker and I got NY pizza for lunch that day.  (And I almost went to Krispy Kreme at the train station for a glazed donut, too!)

[lorbeer]

13 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Hi, Lorbeer ... I'll do my best here and hopefully you can try to imagine it ... 

For starters, here is a Wikipedia entry that explains "New York-style pizza" quite well ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

Growing up in NYC in the 60s and 70s, there were dozens ... nay, hundreds ... of hole-in-the-wall pizzerias that lined the avenues. While you could, of course, buy an entire pizza, the more common practice was to buy a slice or two (or more), with whatever toppings you might want (my order was always "two slice plain").

You'd get the slices (or the whole pizza) on a big old tin tray, sitting on slices of waxed paper, hot and bubbling. The slices would be very thin (especially in comparison to the franchises of today a la Dominos, Papa John's, etc.) ... what a lot of people tend to think of as the unique aspect of NY pizza was that you'd pick up the slice and fold it in half, with the tip dipping down and usually dripping oil onto the waxed paper. 

The cheese would just ooze and stretch (the official slang for it is "cheese pull" but I I seem to recall use of the term stroozle) ... the perfect slice (for me) was the 50-50 combo of hard crust (not like matzo crust but kind of slightly chewy) and bubbling cheese, with just enough tomato sauce underneath.

The big danger was "pizza palate," when you couldn't wait long enough for it to cool off to dive in and you burnt the crap out of the roof of your mouth. 

Thousands have tried to replicate this outside of the greater NY metro area and few have succeeded ... I'd say NYC, Westchester (Roma's in Tuckahoe, which I believe still exists, made killer pizza BUT ONLY SOLD WHOLE PIES, not slices), and northern New Jersey dominated. New Haven pizza is very popular and I like it but it's sort of a different variety. 

There has been some theory that what makes NY pizza different is the water that's used but I am not sure that "holds water" (sorry). 

All I can suggest is if/when you come to the US to visit, don't worry about all the tourist traps in the city ... treat yourself to a true great tasting trip ... I bet a lot of us could put together lists of our favorite old-school pizza places (and I'd ALSO throw in a trip to Papaya King hot dogs on 86th and 3rd Avenue but that's a different topic). 

Anyway ... watching Amelia and Linc at that pizzeria, it looked SOOOO legit my mouth watered (it didn't hurt that I've been on a liquid diet for a few days because of a tongue contusion so seeing two of my favorite foods in one scene was torture). 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

Thank you very much! 😊 Now I want some pizza! I hope one day I'll visit NY and try the pizza there. 😊 Take care!

[taanja]

On 4/11/2019 at 6:43 PM, dmc said:

A whole episode of Amelia and Linc = NOPE

see you next week 

Succinct and to the point- exactly how I feel.

[taanja]

On 4/12/2019 at 8:35 AM, bunnyface said:

That family as presented?  No wonder Amelia avoids them like the plague.  And Meredith is doing well to keep her kids far, far away from them.  Although since Meredith is never home, between actual work and romantic dinners with boy-toy (can't remember name)  I'm surprised those kids aren't completely feral by now. 

Ha! Maybe they are? we never see them! To my eternal sorrow they saddled Mere with a gob of brats so I have always been OK not seeing/hearing them. Just like Mere -- I like to forget they exist!

[jschoolgirl]

On April 12, 2019 at 2:22 PM, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Hi, Lorbeer ... I'll do my best here and hopefully you can try to imagine it ... 

For starters, here is a Wikipedia entry that explains "New York-style pizza" quite well ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

Growing up in NYC in the 60s and 70s, there were dozens ... nay, hundreds ... of hole-in-the-wall pizzerias that lined the avenues. While you could, of course, buy an entire pizza, the more common practice was to buy a slice or two (or more), with whatever toppings you might want (my order was always "two slice plain").

You'd get the slices (or the whole pizza) on a big old tin tray, sitting on slices of waxed paper, hot and bubbling. The slices would be very thin (especially in comparison to the franchises of today a la Dominos, Papa John's, etc.) ... what a lot of people tend to think of as the unique aspect of NY pizza was that you'd pick up the slice and fold it in half, with the tip dipping down and usually dripping oil onto the waxed paper. 

The cheese would just ooze and stretch (the official slang for it is "cheese pull" but I I seem to recall use of the term stroozle) ... the perfect slice (for me) was the 50-50 combo of hard crust (not like matzo crust but kind of slightly chewy) and bubbling cheese, with just enough tomato sauce underneath.

The big danger was "pizza palate," when you couldn't wait long enough for it to cool off to dive in and you burnt the crap out of the roof of your mouth. 

Thousands have tried to replicate this outside of the greater NY metro area and few have succeeded ... I'd say NYC, Westchester (Roma's in Tuckahoe, which I believe still exists, made killer pizza BUT ONLY SOLD WHOLE PIES, not slices), and northern New Jersey dominated. New Haven pizza is very popular and I like it but it's sort of a different variety. 

There has been some theory that what makes NY pizza different is the water that's used but I am not sure that "holds water" (sorry). 

All I can suggest is if/when you come to the US to visit, don't worry about all the tourist traps in the city ... treat yourself to a true great tasting trip ... I bet a lot of us could put together lists of our favorite old-school pizza places (and I'd ALSO throw in a trip to Papaya King hot dogs on 86th and 3rd Avenue but that's a different topic). 

Anyway ... watching Amelia and Linc at that pizzeria, it looked SOOOO legit my mouth watered (it didn't hurt that I've been on a liquid diet for a few days because of a tongue contusion so seeing two of my favorite foods in one scene was torture). 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York-style_pizza

Yes, it's the fresh water from Upstate reservoirs where I grew up. :-) That is also the reason NY bagels are better and different than others.

[willgracefan]

So loved how Linc was watching the Mets game at Citi Field on his iPad when on the plane waiting for Amelia. Loved how the pizza they were eating for breakfast looked just like NY pizza. 

[PWHCHCH]

I’ve always thought that Tyne Daley would be a better fit playing the mother of Callie Torres. They look extremely alike. 

[Rebky]

Amelia's sisters really pissed me off bringing up her addict past.  People can be so blind and stupid not knowing how debilitating and harmful that can be.  She needed encouragement and told they were proud of her, not throwing it in her face and judging her, especially since she is sober now. Bitches!

[LisaM]

I cracked up at the 6 Degrees of Separation with Tyne Daly playing the mother of Amelia Shepard. Tyne Daly previously played the mother of Amy Brenneman in Judging Amy and Amy then played Amelia's medical partner in Private Practice. 

[PepSinger]

On 4/12/2019 at 7:08 PM, tomsmom said:

Omfg that was painful! 

“You must be Owen”

”Nope. Owen is back in Seattle. This is my colleague Dr. Lincoln.”

The. End. 

Jesus! 

YES. Once again, we have an “Idiot Plot” where if the characters did what made sense, the story would be over.

[DEL901]

9 hours ago, LisaM said:

I cracked up at the 6 Degrees of Separation with Tyne Daly playing the mother of Amelia Shepard. Tyne Daly previously played the mother of Amy Brenneman in Judging Amy and Amy then played Amelia's medical partner in Private Practice. 

Tyne Daly’s brother Tim Daly was a regular on Private Practice.    He played Dr Peter Wilder. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 9:54 AM, Jillybean said:

I have nothing to add about the great dysfunction that is the Shepherd family. I'll just say that Linc can add another impressive accomplishment to his list of Amazing Things About Amelia: she apparently can walk 14 blocks around NYC in very skinny stiletto heels -- managing to wear them for the entire episode (presumably she changed for surgery?).

thank you for pointing out the shoes--it was very distracting to me. I know small point but 14 blocks in those? I couldn't go 2.  She keeps wearing them and I keep wishing she was wearing something that seemed more realistic.

As for the episode--I liked the mom and Amelia on the bench scene. Nicely done. I liked Amelia talking to the brother at the end--nicely done and with more subtlety than GA normally does. I do wish the sisters had been less extreme and more like real people you could imagine being in a family. It was realistic they would have doubts about believing Amelia based on stuff she did in the past but if they could have toned it down, it would have made for a more nuanced scene. Amelia still would not have enjoyed the dinner, but it would have been a scene with more shades of gray. In real life, situations are seldom X is 100% right and Y is 100% wrong. There normally are degrees or reasons you think you are right, but so and so does have a point or I can see why they felt that way even though I stand by what I did. . .

[NUguy514]

Blaming Amelia for her sisters' shittiness is ridiculous.

Yes, Carolyn, you were a shitty mother to Amelia; at least you can admit it, which is more than I can say for two of your other garbage daughters.

Nancy, hon, take that condescending "kiddo" and shove it.

And Kathleen?

I'd like to have a word with you.  Outside.

The actor who played Brady is ridiculously hot.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 4/12/2019 at 3:28 PM, iMonrey said:

Short answer: NY pizza is powdery, flat, and flavorless; but the slices are big and you fold them. That seems to be the criteria and what NYers are always bragging about. {Ducks; runs.}

😄😄😄 MORE FOR MEEEEEEE

[Friendly kitty]

Amelia's family is worse than enemies - it is a fact. Sisters - a tangle of snakes ... 😱Maybe because of them and she became a drug addict then, could not stand the continuous pressure.
It's good that her mother is good. The conversation in the park touched my heart ...
And with Link made it up - it also pleases. Maybe now not only for sex will be with him, but also to a more serious relationship will go. We'll see!👀

[Anela]

I can't believe they brought Amy Acker in, to play someone so MEAN. Maybe she had fun, but that was a surprise.

I've never hated Amelia, and defended her when people were hating on her a few years ago. It was so great to see Linc defend her, they were just awful. I've always liked Tyne Daly, so I was glad to see the scene at the end - and Amelia having fun with Linc. I didn't like him when he was first introduced, but now I hope they keep him on. 

[Chas411]

I know I know I’m soooo behind but...

Another great episode that myself and hubby enjoyed. Linc continues to be awesome. He’s such a great addition to the show. While the writing has greatly improved for Amelia I also think Linc brings out the best in her. Makes me wonder why the writers insisted on wasting so much time with her and Owen.

[AzraeltheCat]

On 4/10/2019 at 10:41 PM, statsgirl said:

The dinner with the sisters was painful. Both the sisters were bitches but Kathleen was so awful, I wanted to punch her, and then report her to the APA. I wanted Linc to point out how awful they were and how they were contributing to Amelia's behaviour.

I just watched this episode again and ugg, Kathleen was awful. She and Link, as "Owen," are setting the table and she immediately starts telling her sister's "husband" all kinds of crappy things about her - like it's a miracle she went through with the wedding and didn't run; that she always runs away from things; that she's addicted to drama not just drugs... I'm not even saying it as mean as Kathleen did. Then she says "and she thinks we gang up on her."  I really, really wanted Link to respond, "Well since we just met 5 minutes ago, you've said a whole ton of nasty things about your sister to me so I'm gonna agree with Amelia on this one, y'all DO gang up on her!"

Edited November 25, 2020 by AzraeltheCat

[Anela]

12 hours ago, AzraeltheCat said:

I just watched this episode again and ugg, Kathleen was awful. She and Link, as "Owen," are setting the table and she immediately starts telling her sister's "husband" all kinds of crappy things about her - like it's a miracle she went through with the wedding and didn't run; that she always runs away from things; that she's addicted to drama not just drugs... I'm not even saying it as mean as Kathleen did. Then she says "and she thinks we gang up on her."  I really, really wanted Link to respond, "Well since we just met 5 minutes ago, you've said a whole ton of nasty things about your sister to me so I'm gonna agree with Amelia on this one, y'all DO gang up on her!"

They were awful. I'm glad that she had Linc there to back her up.