Mrs Wilson - General Discussion

[2727]

My grandmother married her second husband in her forties and found out after he died in 1967 that he had another family, including kids, in a different state. Also that he was not a "professional gambler" in Las Vegas, but worked for the mob.

My sister and I were in high school at the time and eavesdropped on a couple of conversations, but my grandmother and mother never spoke about it directly to us. No funeral! Swept under the carpet! Photos taken off the walls!

I think my grandmother's primary emotion was anger, with some societal embarrassment mixed in. As far as logistics, he lived in Las Vegas and only came to California where we were for a couple of weekends each month. His other family was in Oregon.

Edited April 8, 2019 by 2727

[QQQQ]

Too bad Ruth Wilson wasn't born until the early 80s. I wish the story's timeline had allowed for actress Ruth Wilson playing Mrs. Wilson, Ruth Wilson's grandmother, to "meet" an infant actress playing Ruth Wilson. Then the world would have imploded.

[chitowngirl]

Apparently, Alison never knew about Dorothy or Elizabeth. She just knew about Gladys, which she found out about after Alex’s death. Her finding out about the other two was added in order to tell the story.

2 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

Too bad Ruth Wilson wasn't born until the early 80s. I wish the story's timeline had allowed for actress Ruth Wilson playing Mrs. Wilson, Ruth Wilson's grandmother, to "meet" an infant actress playing Ruth Wilson. Then the world would have imploded.

That would have put a hole in the space/time continuum!

[rhys]

Welp, if the ending is to be believed, Alec ended up with a huge family. Did Alison become a nun or was that for tv?

[Brattinella]

I think the entire thing is a true story.

[zillabreeze]

So, according to the end notes the truth about his '"career" is still unknown!  That's fascinating and only deepens the mystery.

If the UK has the records under wraps even now, then to me it says he was some sort of spy.  For which side, who knows?

Good show!  If PBS had consulted with me, I'd have added two or three more episodes!  I think the material is there.

Edited April 8, 2019 by zillabreeze

[voiceover]

Wow. 

Now I really want it to be in book form, so it can be as filled-out as possible.

I'm sure I must've missed this in Part 1, but did Alec support his families with the book royalties?  Because he was apparently a prolific author.  Where'd all that money go?

When Allison fell to the floor at the realization Alec had a **4th wife -- with all that hard-won peace of a few moments before exploding around her -- is when I felt the worst.  How could you ever have any security on those shifting sands?  Makes marriage to Don Draper look like marriage to Tom Hanks!

(On a shallow note: I desperately want that mini-wardrobe/dresser in her "nunnery" room.  The production design for this series was *fierce!  And for those wondering about all that blue...find the interviews with the production & costume designers. It was intentional.)

[SusanSunflower]

As promised .... this site was down earlier 

https://alexanderwilsonauthorandspy.com/2017/05/18/the-mysterious-life-of-alexander-wilson-1893-1963/  
 

[festivus]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

When Allison fell to the floor at the realization Alec had a **4th wife -- with all that hard-won peace of a few moments before exploding around her -- is when I felt the worst.  How could you ever have any security on those shifting sands?  Makes marriage to Don Draper look like marriage to Tom Hanks!

I know. She had finally achieved some measure of peace and then that. I know my jaw dropped open.

This series has intrigued me enough to go looking for the story. If anyone that already has, has any good links please post them!

That bit at the end of the show with the whole family, I was looking for Ruth but it was just too quick and I didn't see her.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just as I predicted...the ending wasn't satisfying for me. I haven't read anything at all about the true story.  I'm not sure if I will or not.

  One question for me is why would the British government want to destroy this man in such a way? Alec's one friend, says they falsely accused him and fired him.  They set him up on criminal charges.....why?  I didn't understand that. What we do know for sure is that he LIED a lot to women and many other people about his marital status and job status.  So, we have an habitual liar, who lied about everything in his life, except to the government.  To them he was truthful and honorable. Right....lol.   But, if his family members can take solace in that he loved them after all, then, that's fine. We all tell ourselves what we need to in order to get by.  

So, is the moral of the story that Ms. Wilson had to become a nun in order to forgive this man for his transgressions?  Was she so deeply wounded, that marrying the church was the only way she could become whole?  

Oh, ref. comments upthread about grandmother suggesting adoption.  While it might have seemed cold, I sense that grandmother knew this man was no good for her daughter and his children.  Throwing money at the situation would likely have not helped, as it would be gone quickly with him getting her daughter pregnant with another baby, then another.  

[rhys]

It's still a puzzle as to where the money for the novels went. I realize Alex was no John Grisham, but 24 books? I'm more than a bit curious this wasn't addressed since it , to me, was a gaping hole regarding money.

[SunnyBeBe]

16 minutes ago, rhys said:

It's still a puzzle as to where the money for the novels went. I realize Alex was no John Grisham, but 24 books? I'm more than a bit curious this wasn't addressed since it , to me, was a gaping hole regarding money.

Are we sure that he got the money? Maybe, that was a lie too?

[SusanSunflower]

I was and remain a bit disappointed that Allison's path to conversion and "forgiveness" was not articulated in more detail.  First episode or early on, iirc, there was reference to the boys being Catholic and that they'd win her over eventually ... and then nothing.  Forgiveness and absolution, confession and penitance are such integral "mysteries" to the Catholic church for non-Catholics... like "til death you do part" in the marriage vows being literal, regardless of the transgressions.  I'm not Catholic, but the mysteries of the Catholic faith, confession, communion and the constant devotions (as Alec with his rosary) and reaffirmation of faith are impressive to me raised atheist and sceptic. 

Allison wrote a religious text, iirc, so it would not have been conjecture. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46456654 (has picture of final scene of extended family) 

Edited April 8, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[festivus]

Quote from that article:

Quote

It may not have been the obvious choice to focus on Granny, but the decision was fine by me because the grueling poverty and psychological torture Alison endured as a result of Alexander's actions and lies deserved equal billing with his exploits.

I'm glad they did do this through Alison's eyes as the focus was more on the devastation this caused during her life and when found out than unraveling his lies and whatever made him the way he was. Can't really know that as he is gone and there are things that are still unclear.

His children do seem to have thought he was a good father even though finding out he was liar and a cad. A person can be more than just the one thing. I wish they could get their truth.

[SusanSunflower]

It was revelations of "grueling poverty" in numerous "spoiler" that startled me.  There was very little evidence of this poverty -- even if it was made clear that there was a lack of money ... but really I don't remember, we have no food until it appeared in the final segment during prison visitation.  Allison's mother said something about not helping out (though I wonder who is paying for son's college and other expenses).  

The idea that Alec was set up by a rival faction apparently has some credibility and might explain the continuing classification of various records.  

from the link earlier https://alexanderwilsonauthorandspy.com/2017/05/18/the-mysterious-life-of-alexander-wilson-1893-1963/   

""We know for certain that something went wrong when he was managing the trading of ship’s stores for a surrendered German passenger liner, the SS Prinzessin, and led to his arrest and prosecution in Vancouver in September 1919.

He was arrested the day after his father died thousands of miles on the other side of the world while on leave from France at Minster, Isle of Sheppey.

He was subsequently sentenced to six months hard labour in one of North America’s most notorious jails, the Oakalla Prison Farm, a veritable and notorious model for the gaol culture represented in the film ‘The Shawshank Redemption.’""

I was most surprised by this mention of the 1919 arrest and conviction after WWI, but before he appears to have engaged in intelligence related daring-do ....  but would they have hired him if they knew .... or did they know and hired him anyway and that's their dirty little secret??? 

also from same source -- before --

""We know for certain he taught English Literature as a professor at Islamia College, University of Punjab in Lahore between 1925 and 1931, eventually taking over as Principal in 1928.''

Edited April 8, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[leighdear]

I enjoyed it overall.  I'm glad they didn't try to extend it any further into suppositions and conjecture.  If the British government isn't going to let his files into public domain, then the family is the only other place to get info.  And they seem to have all had a chance to contribute.  Not much more to tell. 

So much just won't be known, and that's ok.  I liked it for what it was.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by leighdear

[bythelake]

1 hour ago, rhys said:

It's still a puzzle as to where the money for the novels went. I realize Alex was no John Grisham, but 24 books? I'm more than a bit curious this wasn't addressed since it , to me, was a gaping hole regarding money.

 The money was what made no sense. How were they able to afford the house? It must had been paid for because when it was sold Alison told her sons that the proceeds would be divided between the two of them to “ get a good start”

Alex was working in Intelligence when he met Alison. Didn’t he get paid? They lived in one dump after another. He had taught in India for 14 yrs. and written over 20 spy novels. Where was the money? When did it get better so they could buy the house? Did Alison’s mother die? 

Dorothy said Alex only sent her money once, then the bombshell at the end, another needy woman, with a son, looking for her husband.

I don’t know if there really was a Coleman, but it does sound like Alex did have  a handler who wanted Alison to stop digging. Why did they watch him all those years? The spy game is dangerous, if he were such a loose cannon they could have just eliminated him.

If he was so deep under cover that these women were unknowingly part of the game, it was terribly cruel thing for them to be a part of a charade.

If he were a liar,cheat, thief,just for the thrill it gave him, then he was a despicable,evil man.

It was nice to see that the families met and are quite friendly. Many of them have had accomplished careers.

The lies of Alex Wilson have touched many lives, maybe even more than we know.

[festivus]

6 minutes ago, bythelake said:

The money was what made no sense. How were they able to afford the house? It must had been paid for because when it was sold Alison told her sons that the proceeds would be divided between the two of them to “ get a good start”

Alison mentioned at one point in last night's show that the house came from the inheritance she got from her mother.

[SusanSunflower]

from:  [ https://alexanderwilsonauthorandspy.com/2017/03/19/the-writing-career-of-alexander-wilson/ ]

""Four unpublished manuscripts were handed by Wilson’s third wife, Alison, to Dennis Wilson at his funeral in Portsmouth in 1963.

There is no explanation as to why his published writing career ended in 1940 and he was unable to achieve any further publication before his death in Ealing from a heart attack in 1963.""  

I read (bbc) that the records of the publishing house(s) had been lost.  He used many publishers and many pseudonyms. 

I read elsewhere that Coleman was fictional/composite character. 

[leighdear]

Authors back then made nowhere near the money they make now.  All the books he had published went to support all the families, plus his own habits.  And that probably came to very little income for him.

 And he was writing in the years of Steinbeck, Pearl Buck, Hemingway for the Americans and for the Brits, Agatha Chrristie, George Orwell, Virginia Woolfe, etc.   The huge signing commissions weren't given to guys penning pop fiction and they didn't sell for top dollar.  

Today there are movie rights, TV rights, digital media rights and other sources of income for a big writer.  No surprise all his money evaporated.  

Edited April 8, 2019 by leighdear

[bythelake]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

Alison mentioned at one point in last night's show that the house came from the inheritance she got from her mother.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[SusanSunflower]

It just occurred to me that the FOURTH wife was the only one who came AFTER Allison ... and that he was unfaithful to Allison with her ... married and begat a son, a blow to Allison's ego that she had been spared by Gladys and Dorothy being "before Allison" and older. 

I wondered briefly last week if Alec taking up with Allison after more than a decade of marriage was some sort of mid-life crisis brought on by an end to Gladys' childbearing years and perhaps the closing of her bedroom to him.  It doesn't matter -- any excuse will do -- but he did not apparently pursue Dorothy with such ardor, actively seeking for a new wife for the second half of his life. 

Even worse, he was somehow sending them money, regularly, as Allison soldiered on and Alec "did what he could" .... the horror. 

(at some point, I think Allison asked Gladys' son if his parents shared a bed when he visited -- he said no).

I'd love to hear the fourth wife's tale ... and Alec's explanation ... oh well. It think that was a blow that Allison was not expecting ... he had been plain-old unfaithful to her, gone looking for "it" elsewhere. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[atlantaloves]

Oh man, that was three hours of my life I wish I could get back, I loved the first two episodes, but it ended with a thud, and so so so sad. He was truly worthless. 

[leighdear]

I thought the ending was brilliant, bringing in the 4th wife.  (Not that it was a made-up plot device, but actually factual). 

Wasn't it just before that Alison was so triumphantly exclaiming into the phone "He loved us!" to her boys, as if to say "See, WE were the only ones that truly mattered because he stopped making more families after he had us".  But he broke her heart yet again when Elizabeth & her boy showed up.  

Or did I get the sequence of events wrong?

[SusanSunflower]

leighdear

no, I think your chronology is correct, and any "cover story" for the time the son was conceived and the marriage happened was not going to stand scrutiny ... with Alec disgraced and hardly working (and now of course dead and three families/marriages revealed) ...

[zillabreeze]

Ruth is scheduled to be on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert this coming Wednesday.  I'm really hoping she'll talk about her grandmother!  Maybe a little tidbit we didn't see.

[Ohwell]

As much as I enjoyed watching this, I got tired of seeing teal blue everywhere--wallpaper, clothes (especially Allison's), decor, teapots.  Maybe that was the style in the 60s in England, because  I noticed the same thing last season on Call the Midwife, which is set in the 60s now.  

[IrishPirate]

Back to the Urquhart business card: there was a phone number written in invisible ink on the back. Turned out to be Mr. Karim who finally answered when he got home from Lahore.

[CarpeDiem54]

I thought the ending was beautiful.  Sad and bittersweet but lovely. 

The blue coloring of everything was distracting.

Here's an interview with Ruth Wilson.  It explains the families' relationship today.  There are 55 family members now.  Apparently Alison only knew about Gladys.  The fact that she knew about Dorothy and Elizabeth was fictionalized to reveal more about Alec's deception and to include his entire family.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/mrs-wilson-ruth-wilson-bigamy-spy-grandfather-legacy-pbs-1202056526/

[CarpeDiem54]

Another good article.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a27057116/ruth-wilson-mrs-wilson-pbs-episode-three-interview/

[preciousperfect]

I loved the blue everywhere. 

I really enjoyed watching this and made me thankful we live in a time where it’s much easier to catch cheaters and women aren’t just stuck with them. 

[tinderbox]

I thoroughly enjoyed this show.

 I’m actually relieved to learn that during Alison’s lifetime, she was only aware of Gladys and her children and she knew nothing about Alec’s other two wives and their offspring.  I wouldn’t doubt Alec had other “wives”, as well.  What a guy!

Anybody learn about why all the blue?

Edited April 9, 2019 by tinderbox

[festivus]

1 hour ago, tinderbox said:

Anybody learn about why all the blue?

I tried googling yesterday but I couldn't find anything. I guess my google-fu skills aren't the greatest. 😁

1 hour ago, tinderbox said:

I wouldn’t doubt Alec had other “wives”, as well.  What a guy!

How did this dude find the time what with all the jobs he had to have? Like seriously I can't believe he made it to 70.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, preciousperfect said:

I loved the blue everywhere. 

I really enjoyed watching this and made me thankful we live in a time where it’s much easier to catch cheaters and women aren’t just stuck with them. 

Also that if the man’s married to more than one woman, his wife isn’t charged with bigamy. I was gobsmacked about that on this series. That Mrs Wilson would be charged and he would go scott free. 

[SusanSunflower]

Was that advice Allison got from Callahan who seemed most anxious to shut her up and make her back off her inquiries.  It seems highly unlikely that he'd get off scot-free while she'd be charged for a crime she knew nothing about and was arguably an equal victim to.

I think it was Callahan (or Allison's boss) who also told Allison that Alec was from a fine family, best schools, even mentioning the family seat .....and married.

I don't think that the civil law cares much about divorce other than civil divorce which -- theoretically -- a Catholic could get to untangle financial and legal matters without being divorced in the eyes of the church.  There are some instances where religious divorce and civil divorce are reached cooperatively in a sort of mixed court, but that may be a modern thing usually I heard of for orthodox Jews 

Edited April 9, 2019 by SusanSunflower

[bythelake]

11 hours ago, CarpeDiem54 said:

Another good article.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a27057116/ruth-wilson-mrs-wilson-pbs-episode-three-interview/

Thanks for posting the info on the articles. They were most informative. I had wondered about Daphne, Alec’s only daughter. At her age, I don’t blame her for wanting privacy.

It’s heartwarming to see that they’ve all met and get along so well. I’m sure their get-togethers never lack interesting conversation about that skeleton in their closet.

[Driad]

Why isn't there a forum for Masterpiece, with subfora for short-running shows, as we had before?

[dcalley]

On 4/8/2019 at 9:39 AM, festivus said:

That bit at the end of the show with the whole family, I was looking for Ruth but it was just too quick and I didn't see her.

Find Dennis (the oldest), then there's the woman behind him. Behind her is Ruth (to the left). The four sons are all wearing the same tie, which is nice.

It's too bad Ruth Wilson was on Colbert after Mrs. Wilson was done airing (I know, it's still available at pbs.org).

From Indie Wire, "Alison Wilson...released a second part [of her memoir] upon her death in 2005. That’s when the family learned the true extent to which she dedicated her life to religion and finally found peace. ... [Ruth:] 'Even though we knew she was religious, we didn’t know to the extent, that she had taken vows.'" Wow. Secretly joining a religious order, all while keeping the other family from her sons (until 2000, when she gave them part 1 of her memoir).

[festivus]

Thanks. I did find her when I read the article the picture was in, I just couldn't find her when they showed them at the end of the program.

[izabella]

I was confused why Dennis didn't just go find his half-brothers on his own.  He obviously met them at the funeral, knew their names, etc.  I mean, decades passed between 1963 and 2005!  Whatever societal stigma there may have been was long since over.  His mother must have died at some point, so she wouldn't have been hurt. 

[gibasi]

22 hours ago, dcalley said:

From Indie Wire, "Alison Wilson...released a second part [of her memoir] upon her death in 2005. That’s when the family learned the true extent to which she dedicated her life to religion and finally found peace. ... [Ruth:] 'Even though we knew she was religious, we didn’t know to the extent, that she had taken vows.'" Wow. Secretly joining a religious order, all while keeping the other family from her sons (until 2000, when she gave them part 1 of her memoir).

What a messed up family! To release information only after she has died when her sons cannot question her is cruel.  And weak. She took religious vows to escape her complicated life and left her sons behind.

I was disappointed in the end because I thought there would be answers to Alec Wilson's life. And then when Alison chose the Church.   Blech.

I just went to the link above and am intrigued at the idea that his disgrace may have been engineered by Guy Burgess!

Edited April 13, 2019 by gibasi
additional comment

[AuntiePam]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:08 PM, bythelake said:

(Someday I'll figure out how to delete!)

I watched it all in one sitting and ended up sympathetic to Alec.  He reminded me of my brother, who married every woman he slept with (four) -- but not at the same time.

I was less sympathetic to Alison.  She had 20 good years with a man whom she loved, who gave her two sons and except for a short time, provided pretty well for her.  I wanted the show to ask why Alec did what he did, with regard to the marriages.  He treated all these women well, and having a job that kept someone away from home isn't all that rare. 

I do sympathize with Alison in one regard -- finding out you didn't really know someone will up-end your life.  I'm not sure how I'd deal with that.  You can't separate the person you know from the person you don't know.

Off to read the links now, and I'll probably change my mind.

[dcalley]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:31 AM, voiceover said:

And for those wondering about all that blue...find the interviews with the production & costume designers. It was intentional.

Do you have a link? I've been unable to find it.

The biographer has theories! pbs.org Q & A

Quote

I believe the clue to his almost pathological desire to love too much and not so wisely lies in the autobiographical novel Confessions of a Scoundrel published in 1933.

He writes so truthfully in the first person about the trauma of a first true love for a woman called Clarice who was in an unfulfilled marriage with a gay man.

She and the narrator have had a terrible row caused by his jealousy. She decides to go to a back-street abortionist when pregnant with his child, and dies from septicemia.

I suspect only a man who has experienced this could write it so well.

[JudyObscure]

15 hours ago, dcalley said:

She and the narrator have had a terrible row caused by his jealousy. She decides to go to a back-street abortionist when pregnant with his child, and dies from septicemia.

It makes you wonder if any of his marriages would have happened if he had lived a few years later after the birth control pill had been developed.  Weren't all the women pregnant when he "married" them?

Strict Catholic rules, as they stood at the time, seem to have played heavily into all this.  He couldn't divorce anyone.  The women would have been slower to divorce him, even when they just thought he  was only guilty of neglect and failure to support.  From her own religious standpoint, could Alison  have felt she brought her  unhappiness on herself (and her sons) by sleeping with a married man and encouraging  him to leave his wife?   Was it guilt that led her to become a nun as a form of atonement?  Or did she simply feel moved to dedicate her life to some higher value than the sort of office work she had been doing for years?  Her boys were grown, I don't think she needed to give up her vocation just to be there for them to visit occasionally.

I should read the books, but they would just frustrate me if  they don't have more answers.

[txhorns79]

On 4/13/2019 at 2:40 PM, AuntiePam said:

I was less sympathetic to Alison.  She had 20 good years with a man whom she loved, who gave her two sons and except for a short time, provided pretty well for her.  I wanted the show to ask why Alec did what he did, with regard to the marriages.  He treated all these women well, and having a job that kept someone away from home isn't all that rare. 

I would say that while Alec gave the appearance of treating his wives well, the reality was that he did not.  He set each one up for terrible disappointment, and messed with their lives in a way that someone who actually loved them never could.      

[Toothbrush]

Finally watched this. The first 2 parts were so intriguing, but part 3 fizzled a little for me. Fascinating story, and I hope the family can find answers; crazy that 75 years later records are still secret.

I had no idea that Ruth Wilson was Alison's granddaughter; figured the last name was a happy coincidence, as Wilson is pretty common. When Alec's sons were shown at the end of part 3, I thought, "they did a great casting job for Alison; the actress looks just like Nigel" Well, now I know why...lol  

On 4/13/2019 at 1:40 PM, AuntiePam said:

I was less sympathetic to Alison.  She had 20 good years with a man whom she loved, who gave her two sons and except for a short time, provided pretty well for her.  I wanted the show to ask why Alec did what he did, with regard to the marriages.  He treated all these women well, and having a job that kept someone away from home isn't all that rare. 

I was sympathetic to Alison; I can't even imagine the betrayal she must have felt knowing that she had been lied to - about everything - by the person she should have been able to trust above all others. She stayed loyal to him until her children were literally starving because of the crippling poverty he had left them in, and even then she was taken in again by his lies and went back to him. And then the absolute gut punch with the Elizabeth & Douglas reveal, just as she had decided to make peace with it all. According to the show, their stable financial life was due to Alison's inheritance from her mother, not from any contribution from Alec. It was a throwaway line to Coleman in part 3 (I had to rewind to catch it). I got the impression from the first 2 parts that their comfortable lifestyle was from Alec's writing & pension(s), which I think was the intention of the direction, giving us more to digest as the layers were pulled back to reveal more & more. 

And now to delve into the links provided upthread. Never mind that I'm supposed to be packing for an out of state move 😎