S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[Katy M]

Just now, icemiser69 said:

She wouldn't have gotten Randall's message if her phone was dead.

Didn't someone say she asked to charge it after she arrived? 

[Ohiopirate02]

29 minutes ago, Sharyn said:

I agree about Kevin not always getting what he wanted.  He was sandwiched in the middle of two siblings who got allll the attention, growing up.  Remember the pool speech: "where's Kevin?  Oh yeah, he's dead!"  His football career was ended prematurely with an injury.  He had the meltdown during a scene on his sitcom and lost his job.  He screwed up big time with Sophie multiple times.  He became an addict.  He relapsed.  Yes, of course Kevin is charming and handsome but his life hasn't been a fairy tale by any means.

Kevin does have his issues, but as a straight, cisgender white male he has been able to fail up.  He still is my favorite Pearson kid with the best character arc.  

[Katy M]

Just now, nlkm9 said:

I remember them showing sophie bullying kate and being very nasty to her. 

I don't remember that all. I remember at their 10th birthday party, Rebecca telling Kevin to make Sophie go to Kate's bday party because she's Kate's best friend.

[Biggie B]

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

She wouldn't have gotten Randall's message if her phone was dead.

As it was playing out, I imagined that when the hostess of the dinner offered Beth the use of a charger, Beth was able to access and listen to her voicemails as soon as she plugged in her phone. So while it did seem a bit odd to me that Beth doesn't have a phone charger in her car (again, agree with everyone who's mentioned that with having 3 kids, a job, etc., it would seem likely that Beth would want/need her phone to be charged 24/7), I just have to sort of suspend disbelief that at this one time, Beth didn't have the charger in her car - her phone died - she got to the dinner party and was able to fire up the phone using the hostess' charger - and was able to check her texts and VMs before sitting down at the table. 

[nlkm9]

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

She wouldn't have gotten Randall's message if her phone was dead.

thats why i say but she technically could have played it after her phone was charged when she went to retrieve it. there is NO WAY a super controlling woman like Beth would allow her phone to be dead--shes always on the phone with her kids. nope dont buy it. especially with their opposite schedules she would always make sure her phone was charged. but then again its TV land so it is part of the plot, and supposed to make us sympathetic towards her- not for me. although that message was really crappy. If I had a 3 hour drive with 3 kids home alone (who were they with anyway) and a politician hubby I would (and have bought a minutes phone before setting out in the day and age without a phone--its a freaking safety issue.  a

few years ago (long ugly story) I had a huge fight with my boss and he took my company phone away and I had a 2 hour drive at night--I did go buy a minutes phone because I was so frantic to tell hubby what happened. lol.

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kevin does have his issues, but as a straight, cisgender white male he has been able to fail up.  He still is my favorite Pearson kid with the best character arc.  

yeah and football thing was just terrible. and losing his dad. lots of tough stuff at once.

Edited March 20, 2019 by nlkm9

[GodsBeloved]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Didn't someone say she asked to charge it after she arrived? 

She did and the wife gave her a charger.

[nlkm9]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't remember that all. I remember at their 10th birthday party, Rebecca telling Kevin to make Sophie go to Kate's bday party because she's Kate's best friend.

yes they were all at the pool and sophie and her friends passed a note about kate being fat and embarrassing and she found the note--it was heart wrenching.

[PRgal]

Just now, icemiser69 said:

That doesn't mean she was telling the truth.

If her phone had died, how did she get Randall's message?

She borrowed a charger when she arrived at the dinner and saw it then?

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I found it shocking Randall and the girls didn't have their butts in the seats to cheer her on. 

Right? Why weren't the girls there?

13 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Beth shares some blame in this, too.  She should have spoken to Randall a long time ago about feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in her career, instead of going along with whatever interest he had that week.  Could she have worked her teaching around her life better?  Maybe.  But has Randall done that?

She did speak to him about it after she was fired and he told her that they would figure it out together. And then he asked her to work on his campaign with him instead of encouraging her to figure out her own path. Plus, she didn't go along with everything he wanted. She told him that he could only run for city council if he dropped out if things got bad. Then things got bad, she told him to drop out and he refused. Plus, he originally wanted to adopt a baby and Beth suggested foster care instead, something that is less of a commitment since you can stop doing it if it doesn't work for you unlike having a child. So I don't think Beth just goes along all of the time, I think Randall steamrolls her a lot.

I think wanting kids/not wanting kids is probably a spectrum. It goes from adamantly not wanting kids, like Zoe to wanting a kid so bad that you are willing to sacrifice the health of you and your baby, like Kate. Kevin is probably somewhere in the middle. He figured he would eventually have kids but never really seriously thought about it because he had never committed to anyone enough to seriously consider it. He never had to think about it as a real possibility rather than an abstract until Zoe confronted him with it. So I can see him going either way. I do think he should have thought about it longer than a day, though!

[GodsBeloved]

So why am I listening to Howl over and over again. 

[Dowel Jones]

Add to all of the drama between Beth and Randall was the fact that, during the dinner, she was giving very clear signs that she was displeased with Randall.  If their hosts were at all observant, that's likely to show up back at the halls of City Council, because people love to trade secrets about other people's lives.  Recall the kerfluffle that occupied the media after Melania brushed off Donald's hand (for whatever reason) while they were walking. 

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Beth has every right to "pursue her dreams" but she should never have picked this moment in their lives to do it.  If she had told him before he ran for city council that she wanted to teach dance in the evenings and so he couldn't take that sort of job, it would be different, but she didn't and now it's just not possible for them both to be working after school hours without all this frantic stress we're witnessing.  She's not being practical and I think they're both being stupid.  They have kids to finish raising.  If Beth can't say, "I'm sorry I can't go for drinks, I have kids to get home to, " and Randall can't say, "I would love to come to dinner, but my wife wont be able to come, she works in the evenings, " then there's something wrong with those jobs.  People aren't hired for unlimited hours or guaranteed spousal participation.  Those things should never be part of any job.

Also.  Beth arriving at the dinner late and then immediately asking to further disrupt dinner by charging her phone?  How rude was that?

actually, i agree with all of that. but I see Beth asking to charge her phone as a way to "cover" that she had already heard the message, decided to come to the party and make Randall feel as terrible as possible. I have been watching this show from the beginning and all of sudden, i think when she asked to pull out of the race just days before the election, I just started to actively dislike the character. But the charging isnt rude, but seriously, what if noone had the same phone as her?? We all have different chargers in my house. the whole thing is soooo stupid lol and a plot point. the moral of the story is, if you are driving at night for 3 hours and your kids are home without you and your sister in law is in the hospital and all the other things you get a car charger even if you have to get ripped off at a gas station or an airport--btdt many times lol

[AriAu]

Very minor thing....The actress who plays Zoe is beautiful-drop dead gorgeous, but it seemed like they played down her beauty this episode. I imagine that it was a conscious decision to have it be more about feelings than looks, but then again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[nlkm9]

2 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Very minor thing....The actress who plays Zoe is beautiful-drop dead gorgeous, but it seemed like they played down her beauty this episode. I imagine that it was a conscious decision to have it be more about feelings than looks, but then again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

thats so interesting, i noticed that as well. she is absolutely stunning.

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That doesn't mean she was telling the truth.

If her phone had died, how did she get Randall's message?

ETA:  It would be pretty rude for her to pick up her messages as the phone was charging after being late for the dinner.

She could have assumed the one voicemail was from one of the kids if she wasn't looking specifically at who was calling. 

Either way, I think it's just plot contrivance. Randall was meant to leave that voicemail for Beth to listen to and to start their (presumably) really big fight at the end of the episode. It WAS kind of a dumb way to get from point A to point B.

Honestly, they really didn't need the nasty voicemail but I guess they needed that final straw to cause Randall/Beth to finally explode.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

She could have assumed the one voicemail was from one of the kids if she wasn't looking specifically at who was calling. 

Either way, I think it's just plot contrivance. Randall was meant to leave that voicemail for Beth to listen to and to start their (presumably) really big fight at the end of the episode. It WAS kind of a dumb way to get from point A to point B.

Honestly, they really didn't need the nasty voicemail but I guess they needed that final straw to cause Randall/Beth to finally explode.

I prefer to think of it that the final straw will lead to them getting back on the same page again, pulling together, not apart -- and definitely not exploding.  I'm rooting for them, and their girls.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

yes they were all at the pool and sophie and her friends passed a note about kate being fat and embarrassing and she found the note--it was heart wrenching.

That was a different girl.  Why would that be her best friend?  Unless she apologized, I guess, in which case it doesn't matter any more.  They'd moved past it.

[GodsBeloved]

8 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Very minor thing....The actress who plays Zoe is beautiful-drop dead gorgeous, but it seemed like they played down her beauty this episode. I imagine that it was a conscious decision to have it be more about feelings than looks, but then again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I thought they downplayed her beauty when she told Kevin she was abused by her father. 

She is a beauty and that skin!!

[nlkm9]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was a different girl.  Why would that be her best friend?  Unless she apologized, I guess, in which case it doesn't matter any more.  They'd moved past it.

youre right it doesnt matter, but i remember it as Sophie with those bunch if girls. Also why would Sophie have to be told to go to her bday party? Sophie is a very nice adult but they made her seem very stuck up when she was younger.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, nlkm9 said:

youre right it doesnt matter, but i remember it as Sophie with those bunch if girls. Also why would Sophie have to be told to go to her bday party? Sophie is a very nice adult but they made her seem very stuck up when she was younger.

Because she was at Kevin's party because he looooved her.  Sophie might not have even realized that nobody was at Kate's party. Or, she might have thought it was all one big party.  It was stupid for them to have both their parties on the same day in the same house, because that was bound to happen.

[nlkm9]

Just now, Katy M said:

Because she was at Kevin's party because he looooved her.  Sophie might not have even realized that nobody was at Kate's party. Or, she might have thought it was all one big party.  It was stupid for them to have both their parties on the same day in the same house, because that was bound to happen.

lol young loooooooove:)

[3 is enough]

36 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

actually, i agree with all of that. but I see Beth asking to charge her phone as a way to "cover" that she had already heard the message, decided to come to the party and make Randall feel as terrible as possible.

 I was just about to say something along the same lines! She had heard the message and wanted to mess with him in retaliation. Plus, she knew that he would be obsessing over the message and would not be 100% focused on the dinner conversation.

Edited March 20, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Maximona]

48 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

I'm not sure what your point is.  

Not my intention to offend you, and I apologize if I did! You sound very miffed.

But my point—no doubt the result of listening to an endless parade of Real Housewives and Sunset Shahs discuss egg harvesting—is that lots of women who don't want children at a certain point in their lives change their minds at a later point.

I agree that this is an essential conversation to have with any prospective life partner.

[PepSinger]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Also.  Beth arriving at the dinner late and then immediately asking to further disrupt dinner by charging her phone?  How rude was that?

Why is that rude? I’ve done that hundreds of times. No need to sit somewhere with a dead phone when it could be charging as I’m eating.

[ShadowFacts]

When Randall and Beth were leaving the hospital, did he say something about baby Jack being 2 or 3 days old?  If so, they were spending quite a bit of time away from their girls, and maybe a bit of money unless they were sleeping at Toby and Kate's. 

It was kind of sweet that when Kate left to take a shower she handed off the RBG doll to Toby. 

36 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

actually, i agree with all of that. but I see Beth asking to charge her phone as a way to "cover" that she had already heard the message, decided to come to the party and make Randall feel as terrible as possible. I have been watching this show from the beginning and all of sudden, i think when she asked to pull out of the race just days before the election, I just started to actively dislike the character. But the charging isnt rude, but seriously, what if noone had the same phone as her?? We all have different chargers in my house. the whole thing is soooo stupid lol and a plot point. the moral of the story is, if you are driving at night for 3 hours and your kids are home without you and your sister in law is in the hospital and all the other things you get a car charger even if you have to get ripped off at a gas station or an airport--btdt many times lol

Something is weird with the quote function, I didn't actually write the post you were responding to there. 

[Calamity Jane]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Heaven help Randall if he attempts to minimize what he said when he and Beth start unpacking this situation, because she can replay every syllable for him.  

I remember a few years ago reading about a long-term study done on couples, trying to figure out what makes some pairings last and others disintegrate.  

The common denominator the researchers found that inevitably led to divorce/separation was when one partner expressed, either verbally or with body language, contempt for the other. Other serious issues in the end proved to be conquerable, but never contempt.  Randall's words and tone in the "bored housewives" part of the message were pure, dripping, caustic contempt.  I would never get over it, and it will be interesting to see what the writers do with Beth's reaction over time.  

I like Kate's interactions with Baby Jack, and I love her singing to him.  It looks as if Toby has fallen in love with him now, too.  Awwww.  

[GodsBeloved]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It was kind of sweet that when Kate left to take a shower she handed off the RBG doll to Toby. 

I hollered when Kate acknowledged the funk! I know she felt a billion times better after that shower.

I did tear up when Kate handed the baby to Toby and said "Jack, this is your dad"

Edited March 20, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[ClareWalks]

There was some discussion in the thread earlier about whether Kate was still admitted to the hospital several days after her C-section. I just wanted to add the possibility that even if she is no longer a patient, there are often rooms for the parents of NICU patients to stay with them at the hospital, so that could have been their situation at this point (with Kate returning to that room to take her shower). It's also likely that they are keeping her around for a while to monitor her after her emergency C-section, especially at her weight and being so early in the pregnancy.

[roughing it]

The first thing that Randall and Beth need to do is erase most of the things on the whiteboard from hell.  That's a huge cause of stress in families - not only the commitments of mom and dad, but each of the kids too.  It's too much.

I thought that Kevin purposely went to the AA meeting near Sophie's apartment.  He was wondering if the door to their relationship was cracked open a little and could be nudged back open again, but Sophie closed it shut during the conversation.  It was only after that, that he went back to Zoe and said he chose her over having kids.

[nlkm9]

53 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Why is that rude? I’ve done that hundreds of times. No need to sit somewhere with a dead phone when it could be charging as I’m eating.

agreed. but still pondering how she knew they happened to have a charger that she used. After traveling on business and seeing a drawerful of chargers at a hotel that didnt match mine, if I dont have one (which wouldnt happen i would stop and buy one) as someone else said, a total plot contrivance. A woman who works in the evening, has 3 kids and a husband who is out does not have a dead phone, not these days. thank you tv land 🙂

[3 is enough]

13 hours ago, bros402 said:

And I guess the Big 3 are supposed to be in 6th grade in this episode? Since the balloons said Class of 1992 - I guess they "graduated" 5th grade? Since they graduated HS in what, 1998? So this would be the 1991-1992 school year. The Big Three were born 1980, so they should be in 8th grade, not 6th. Hmmm
let me check my math

12th grade: 97-98

11th: 96-97

10th: 95-96

9th: 94-95

8th: 93-94

7th: 92-93

6th: 91-92

Or did I read the balloons wrong and they said Class of 1990?

Having lived in 4 states all across the country while my kids were in school, I can tell you that there is a large variation in how the kids are divided into schools by grade level.  In some places it is grades K-6  in elementary, and 7-8  in junior high.  I have also seen grades 5-6 in a separate "middle " or "intermediate" school, then 7-8  in junior high.  The other combination I have seen is grades 6-7-8  in middle school.  

So it is possible that the Big 3 were graduating from "middle school"in 1992.  

Edited March 20, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Having lived in 4 states all across the country while my kids were in school, I can tell you that there is a large variation in how the kids are divided into schools by grade level.  In some places it is grades K-6  in elementary, and 7-8  in junior high.  I have also seen grades 5-6 in a separate "middle " or "intermediate" school, then 7-8  in junior high.  The other combination I have seen is grades 6-7-8  in middle school.  

So it is possible that the Big 3 were graduating from "middle school"in 1992.  

I'm the same age as the Big 3 and the public schools where I lived in 1992 were divided K-6, 7-9, and 10-12 grades.  I don't know if any of the elementary schools in the area had any special graduation ceremonies or dances for 6th grade.  I didn't go to a middle school dance until 7th grade at my Catholic school.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Why is that rude? I’ve done that hundreds of times. No need to sit somewhere with a dead phone when it could be charging as I’m eating.

Because the hostess has to get up from the already in progress dinner to show you where you can charge your phone.  What's wrong with sitting through a meal with a dead phone?  I've never sat through a meal with a live phone in my entire life, so it seems very odd to me that someone can't go through one meal without a phone in her lap.  You'd think we were all on-call surgeons, we should be able to actually be with the ones we're with occasionally..

[debbie311]

Randall and Beth need to get into marriage counseling ASAP.  If you read Michelle Obama's book, Becoming, she wrote a lot about how his going into politics put a real strain on their marriage, she did not feel he was pulling his weight, etc. and that led them to counseling.  I wonder sometimes if the writers of This Is Us are trying to pattern Beth/Randall's marriage to the Obamas.  One big difference, though, is that Michelle Obama said that Barack was ALWAYS very supportive of whatever she wanted to do career-wise.

There's no reason why the two older girls can't help with the dishes, or even make their own lunches.  Things have changed; Beth and Randall can't keep life as it was for the kids and that's what they're trying to do.  Deja calling Randall to ask where her permission slip was (in her backpack) for example.  She's old enough to start being responsible for things like that herself, making sure she has what she needs before she leaves for school.

But, hey, it's a TV show and they want to make it as dramatic as possible.  For me though, if it starts to feel too uncomfortable to watch, I won't want to.  I don't like seeing people make asses of themselves week after week.

[GodsBeloved]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:31 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Kevin can't make a final decision about having kids, or having Zoe, right now.  He's newly sober again, that has to be his priority.  He made his choice in like one day?  That's impulsivity rearing its ugly head again, it's the Pearson way.  He just chooses an AA meeting right near Sophie's?  I know he's trying to find the right fit, but that was his choice to walk by her place.  Why?  He's not as fully committed to Zoe as he thinks, and he doesn't know what he wants.  He doesn't want to be alone. 

I wish the timeline was clearer. Kevin didn't make his decision the same day as the kids convo but I couldn't tell if he made it the next day or not.

I hate the idea that in the same episode Zoe almost painstakingly says she doesn't want to be a sucker, that is what she is, albeit unknowingly. If Kevin is not committed to her and is only with Zoe because Sophie isn't available and he doesn't want to be alone, Zoe is being used in the worst kind of way, especially given she loves him and is willing to walk through his issues with him. If this is the writers' intent, I wish they hadn't wasted Zoe's time (and mine LOL).

Edited March 21, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Pop Tart]

2 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

At this point, I can't reconcile this Zoe with a Zoe who was secretly hoping Kevin would give her an excuse to walk. What I can reconcile is this Zoe with a Zoe who would be just as direct if what she wanted was an end to her relationship with Kevin. I don't see why she's willing to waste her time and his if she wants out.

I don’t really think she wants out, not truly. But I think she’s someone who’s always waiting for the other shoe to drop in a relationship, so she pushes to see if this thing is the shoe. For whatever reason she can’t envision a forever relationship so she convinces herself it’s better to cut her losses sooner. That’s my read on her anyway. 

[GodsBeloved]

4 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

I don’t really think she wants out, not truly. But I think she’s someone who’s always waiting for the other shoe to drop in a relationship, so she pushes to see if this thing is the shoe. For whatever reason she can’t envision a forever relationship so she convinces herself it’s better to cut her losses sooner. That’s my read on her anyway. 

I can see that too. She was crushed by the one man who was suppose to protect her so thinking every man will crush her sooner or later is believable.

[PepSinger]

54 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

agreed. but still pondering how she knew they happened to have a charger that she used. After traveling on business and seeing a drawerful of chargers at a hotel that didnt match mine, if I dont have one (which wouldnt happen i would stop and buy one) as someone else said, a total plot contrivance. A woman who works in the evening, has 3 kids and a husband who is out does not have a dead phone, not these days. thank you tv land 🙂

I have an iPhone. I assume Beth has some sort of smartphone. 99% of the time if I ask someone for a charger, someone has one. It’s not a logic leap or something that’s absurd to think someone else would have, especially if you have a common phone.

Also, I don’t see what being a wife and a mother has to do with having a charged phone. Shit happens sometimes.

Edited March 20, 2019 by PepSinger

[mommalib]

15 hours ago, Amethyst said:

It's not all of a sudden, Randall's stress, anxiety, and impulsive behavior has been part of his character since the beginning.  Before, it made sense to see why he was all over the place, but his actions always affect his family.  It's just reached a point where it can't be hand-waved anymore.  It's not only financial.  It's not right for him to make these major decisions without discussing it with his wife.  I think the political storyline was where they reached the breaking point.

Beth shares some blame in this, too.  She should have spoken to Randall a long time ago about feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in her career, instead of going along with whatever interest he had that week.  Could she have worked her teaching around her life better?  Maybe.  But has Randall done that?

Even with Randall's issues he has never been portrayed the way he is right now.

[PepSinger]

24 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Because the hostess has to get up from the already in progress dinner to show you where you can charge your phone.  What's wrong with sitting through a meal with a dead phone?  I've never sat through a meal with a live phone in my entire life, so it seems very odd to me that someone can't go through one meal without a phone in her lap.  You'd think we were all on-call surgeons, we should be able to actually be with the ones we're with occasionally..

I’m not talking about having a phone *in her lap* during the entire meal, for goodness sakes. You’ve never sat through a meal with a fully charged phone? I think you’re taking what I’m saying a bit too literally. There is nothing wrong with asking someone if they have a  phone charger when you arrive to their home whether you are late or not. Anyone who would get that upset about a guest requesting such a thing should really rethink inviting people over and interacting with others, IMO. I certainly wouldn’t want anything to do with such a person. 

Also, it wasn’t as if this were some quick meal. They were there for hours thanks to Randall’s caffeine fix.

Edited March 20, 2019 by PepSinger

[Biggie B]

1 minute ago, PepSinger said:

Because the hostess has to get up from the already in progress dinner to show you where you can charge your phone.

I think we're all over-scrutinizing this! I recalled the scene as follows: doorbell rang - hostess answered door - there stood Beth - a flurry of explanations ensued, while hostess, Beth, and Randall (I think)  were all standing, with Beth shedding her coat and such - hostess offered a phone charger to Beth after Beth mentioned her phone had gone dead - hostess and Beth walked off-screen, presumably to wherever hostess had the charger. I imagine that Beth plugged in her phone in another room, left it there, and then took a seat at the dinner table.

Look, we all know the dead phone thing was a total plot device to exacerbate the already frought situation between Beth and Randall. Whether or not Beth keeps a charger handy 24/7 or not and the logistics of this one particular situation isn't worth the time spent arguing over it. The larger point is - - the stubbornness of both individuals, the incredible anger they're both harboring, the severity of how they're currently treating each other, and the tsunami that's about to occur between them. They have both said and done horrible, hurtful things to each other, with more to come. The heck with the phone charger already!

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, Biggie B said:

hink we're all over-scrutinizing this! I recalled the scene as follows: doorbell rang

I didn’t say what you are quoting, FYI.

[RachelKM]

2 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I don’t really think she wants out, not truly. But I think she’s someone who’s always waiting for the other shoe to drop in a relationship, so she pushes to see if this thing is the shoe. For whatever reason she can’t envision a forever relationship so she convinces herself it’s better to cut her losses sooner. That’s my read on her anyway. 

That's how I saw it too.  A lot of people who have chaotic or traumatic childhoods spend a lot of their relationships braced for it to go wrong.  As a result they push on the fault lines to test its strength.  It's part get the pain over with and part taking control of the pain and when it happens to avoid being blindsided. 

 I saw it as Zoe protecting herself.  "If you're going to leave me over this, do it now."

2 hours ago, mommalib said:

Even with Randall's issues he has never been portrayed the way he is right now.

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to with "the way he is right now".

We've discussed ad nauseam in this thread that impulsiveness and thoughtlessness are pretty consistently his traits.  But I agree some of his specific behaviors are new.

If you're referring to the harshness of the voicemail, then heck yeah that's new.  But I think someone else noted above that Randall is frustrated and exhausted and we say shitty things sometimes when we're tired and stressed.  Doesn't make it okay.  But it is a reason that an otherwise kind person might lash out in a pretty awful way in a particular instance.

As for his being an ass generally with his attitude toward Beth's needs, well then I agree that too is new.   But we've never seen Beth push back before either.  We had William tell her she needed to speak up.  But before her voicing her concern about the campaign, Beth never failed to get behind one of Randall's whims.  So, yeah, it's new.  But so are the conditions. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by RachelKM

[Biggie B]

Sorry, PepSinger; I highlighted the sentence in question and clicked on "quote selection." I do see that it was originally written by JudyObsure, who you quoted. So I quoted you quoting her, but the system didn't quite understand that, I guess!

[After7Only]

14 hours ago, bros402 said:

Second, so obviously, Zoe and Kevin are going to break up next season. I'm guessing Zoe will learn she is pregnant, Kevin will see it as a "see, now she'll want kids!" moment, then Zoe gets an abortion and Kevin gets angry that he didn't get his way for once.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if Zoe gets pregnant, but I think she'll keep the baby.  I took Sophie's "You always get what you want" to mean choose Zoe and you will charm her way until having your kids.  

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm the same age as the Big 3 and the public schools where I lived in 1992 were divided K-6, 7-9, and 10-12 grades.  I don't know if any of the elementary schools in the area had any special graduation ceremonies or dances for 6th grade.  I didn't go to a middle school dance until 7th grade at my Catholic school.

I graduated in '90.  Our schools went K-3, 4-5, 6-8, 9-12.  We only graduated from 12th.  We did have dances in junior high, but I don't think there were any "special" dances.  I went to one in 6th grade.  That was enough for me.  Then I went to another one in 10th.  Then no more until college.

[Bringonthedrama]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I told my husband this morning about Randall's voice mail and their issues and the general anti-Randall tone of this board and we just don't know what to think.  We've been married 39 years and our marriage, our division of labor, priority of jobs, etc. is so different.  His Air Force job always came before my banking jobs because, one, he earned twice as much, and two, it was understood that when he got reassigned, I would have to quit my job and start over at the new town (or new country.)  I have always done 100% of the housework and yard work, and that's because I'm OCD about it all and don't want anyone else touching my perfect linen closets or trimming the shurbs.

So we seem like a traditional, unequal partnership on the outside but we, and most of my friends my age, are so much more independent than the young couples we know who can't go five minutes without texting each other and must be supportive of every little thing the other one does. 

During his 22 year military career I went to exactly two functions.  This is one spousal unit who felt no need to smile by his side  during long awards dinners. We neither one own cell phones, you couldn't pay us to carry one of those things around all day.

So.  I thought Randall was just talking to himself when he was sending that voice mail, but, even knowing he really sent it,  I simply can't hate him and get on board with the "he became a different, unforgiveable person" thing.  He thought she had stood him up without so much as a word and was refusing to answer his texts.  He was angry and people sometimes do get angry and say awful things in the moment.  That moment doesn't negate years of being a devoted husband and father, even one with selfish tendencies. 

Beth has every right to "pursue her dreams" but she should never have picked this moment in their lives to do it.  If she had told him before he ran for city council that she wanted to teach dance in the evenings and so he couldn't take that sort of job, it would be different, but she didn't and now it's just not possible for them both to be working after school hours without all this frantic stress we're witnessing.  She's not being practical and I think they're both being stupid.  They have kids to finish raising.  

It seems like you and your husband long ago knew what to expect from each other esp. re: employment (because he's military), and what you wanted in your marriage. That's awesome. But Beth and Randall have a completely different situation.

Randall is NOT an employee of the U.S. government/a service member. He has been living his life by making sudden decisions which impact his family, that are not about what's best for his family. This is not about Beth being upset that Randall is not doing any household chores. He has all these unresolved issues about being an adopted black child in a white family, losing his idolized father in tragic, sudden circumstances as a teenager, meeting his bio father while the man was terminally ill and losing a father a second time, etc. etc. He appears to have a need to be a hero to strangers in a different state.  He has expected his wife and children to be along for the ride in life choices he has made that cater to all those unresolved issues. I am not aware of any scenario where a truly devoted father has a child try to run away by hiding in an uncle's car because he or she was so upset about the home/family situation.

I wonder if Randall expects Beth and the children to be supportive of every choice he makes because the audience has seen that basically, Rebecca and Jack acted like Randall was a kid who pooped rainbows and farted perfume.

I see this as much more than Randall having "selfish tendencies." Randall has convinced himself he's being a savior to a community after first being a savior to Deja, while Beth's work is "just dance" and therefore she can drop it until the time comes that is convenient to Randall. Beth has not made references to Randall being a madly in love devoted spouse;  she has referenced him getting obsessed about tasks/projects during their relationship, to the point of it being detrimental to his health.  

That voicemail is not the first time he's disrespected his wife, or gone back on a promise. The truth is that these two should have made decisions *together* (finances, schedules appropriate for their kids' needs, etc.) and then taken action. However, it seems like Randall is definitely not built that way. He is exhausted/over-extended at this time as a result of choices he made on his own, only now (as opposed to early in their marriage) three daughters get to deal with the consequences in addition to Beth.

[bybrandy]

43 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I graduated in '90.  Our schools went K-3, 4-5, 6-8, 9-12.  We only graduated from 12th.  We did have dances in junior high, but I don't think there were any "special" dances.  I went to one in 6th grade.  That was enough for me.  Then I went to another one in 10th.  Then no more until college.

I graduated in 96 and our schools were MOSTLY K-5, 6-8, 9-12.  Where I lived Middle school was 6-8 vs Jr. High was 7-9.  and my community mostly had middle schools but had like one district that had a junior high.. so my elementary school gradualted kids at 6th grade because most students went to the lone Jr. High.  But I lived in a weird place and went to middle school so left the elementary school in 5th grade sans graduation (moving up) ceremony.   Then 8th grade we had a ceremony that was less formal.   Then obviously the formal graduation.  

[JudyObscure]

3 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It seems like you and your husband long ago knew what to expect from each other esp. re: employment (because he's military), and what you wanted in your marriage. That's awesome. But Beth and Randall have a completely different situation.

Right, several people have told me that.  I never meant to say my marriage was like Randall's and Beth's.  Although plenty of people move as often or more than the military.  My brother was an IBM manager and expected to move every two years.  His wife, a nurse, always expected to quit her job and go with him. He earned over six figures and she didn't.

What I meant by telling so much, no doubt too much, about my marriage was to show why my husband and I found the whole episode about Randall and Beth's marriage so different and interesting.  It's  the way their lives are lived so much in each other's pockets that seems so  odd and horribly smothering to us. I'm not saying their marriage should be like ours, I'm saying it's interesting to us because it's so different.  We never expected to be part of the other person's job.   We don't expect the other one to share our hobbies or come along to watch us do them.  We can go entire days without phoning or texting each other.  It seems childish to us that Beth would require her husband to come along to the recital and cheer her teaching efforts.  It seemed childish of Randall to be unable  to tell his boss that his wife couldn't make it to the dinner. He shouldn't need Beth to come along and  impress them.  It's his job and she shouldn't have to have anything to do with it if she doesn't want to.

I'm not taking sides between Beth and Randall, I think they're both being selfish and too dependent on the other one.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The writers are acting like they're super jealous of Sterling K. Brown that we all fell so hard in love with him in Season 1 and now they're trying to ruin it.