S05.E09: The Trial of Jim Gordon

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

After Gordon is shot in an attempt to establish a cease-fire, he hallucinates a trial for his life that could have deadly real consequences. Meanwhile, Ivy returns and puts her spell on Bruce, leaving Selina to defend herself. Lee has a life-changing moment as Barbara and Penguin consider their next moves.

Promo:

Original air date: 3/7/19

[paigow]

How many times has Gordon suffered a bullet wound? Based on the number of rounds fired his way over the seasons, I bet the number is very low....

[Lantern7]

Has I mentioned I'm going to miss Gotham when it's over? Because I will. I am so going to miss it. Arrow will be wrapping up at the end of the near, but I don't think I've had as much fun watching that.

Basically, Ivy's turn comes up on the proverbial Wheel of Psychos, so she uses her special perfume to "convince" Zsasz to shoot Jim. And he does . . . but since he's a major canon character, all he gets is a nightmarish kangaroo court, as he's haunted by his failures. Since Ivy basically thinks she's the Lorax (speaking for nature), she gets Bruce and Lucius to reverse the repairs done to the river. Selina winds up breaking them out of that (Lucius: "You kicked me in the face"), and Lee winds up shooting Ivy, so crisis averted there. One month later, Jim and Lee get married. Sure, it's by Harvey, who probably doesn't have the authroity, but what the hell, right?

I kinda feel bad for Barbara. She didn't even show up in Jim's nightmare. Sure, she's a mess mentally, but she shouldn't just be the babymama. Maybe she can be salvaged. But not she's ready to run off with the rugrat.

Somany little moments . . . Alfred punching and stomping out Zsasz, Bruce and Lucius trips on Ivy's perfume, Zsasz being Zsasz and being in love with Ivy, Oswald taking two punches from Harvey, and he winds up darting away from Harvey for the rest of his visit. And the assorted garish costumes of the gangs . . . like the result of an orgy between the TV series, The Dark Knight Returns and the Tim Burton movies.

I'm going to miss this series when it's gone.

[HoodlumSheep]

Nice quality harvey this episode. Love him to death. He loves jim so much :')

and whether or not people like jimlee together, i'm just so happy nothing bad happened at the wedding. It was a really nice moment. Had a big grin on my face the entire time. 

another 2 week break :( 

3 more episodes left :(

ughhhh it's really ending soon T︵T

[Danielg342]

For an obvious filler episode, this was a good one. Ben McKenzie should get into writing...he seems to know what he's doing.

I just think this should have been an earlier seasons episode...it just doesn't fit within the S5 framework except for a few periphery ties. Maybe this would have worked better in S3 or even S4, when the storyline "Jim thinks he's the hero" really took hold.

[thuganomics85]

I know I shouldn't be feeling bad for Victor Zsasz of all people, but between him being framed in his last episode and now being controlled by Ivy here, I'm just like "Poor pyscho!  Can't people just let him go back to killing on his own accord and quit using him as their own personal weapon?!"  Whatever future versions DC shows or films brings of him, I don't think anyone will top Anthony Carrigan's Victor Zsasz in my book!

Anyway, this was basically Ivy's turn to be the front and center baddie, and her grand plan was to kill Gordon, infect Bruce, and basically release all the toxin back into the water, and kill all the humans.  Unsurprisingly, none of it works, because she also manages to escape (despite a gunshot wound), because that's usually how it goes.

Jim's hallucination/dream was surprisingly underwhelming.  Was hoping for more cameos from past characters.

Pure speculation, but the conversation between Alfred and Lee seems to be setting up that Lee might end up raising Jim's child despite not being related by blood, which makes me wonder what the endgame is for Barbara.

Episode ends with Selina and Bruce making out, even though they were literally beating the crap each out of each other earlier.  To be fair, he was infected by Ivy's toxin, so that really is just a normal relationship obstacle in Gotham!

So, of course, not only do Jim and Lee get married at the prescient, but Bullock is the officiator.  Like it would go any differently! 

Noticed that not only did Ben McKenzie write this, but Erin Richards directed.  That's pretty cool.

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

and whether or not people like jimlee together, i'm just so happy nothing bad happened at the wedding. It was a really nice moment. Had a big grin on my face the entire time. 

I was afraid someone was going to shoot them again, but I am so glad that for once, Gotham gave have nice things.

And to top things off, Batcat KISS.

[mxc90]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, of course, not only do Jim and Lee get married at the prescient, but Bullock is the officiator.  Like it would go any differently!

With this show, I was expecting the Penguin or someone to interfere in the middle of the ceremony (I'm sure it was tough for the writer to resists the urge).

[Kostgard]

I was meh on the episode. Clearly filler, but since it was a last minute order, certainly understandable.

Oswald has got to be really, really tired of getting blamed for everything. The slightest thing goes wrong, and everyone runs to blame him (despite his record of not being the worst thing in the city). This series better end with him burning the whole place down because he’s sick of everyone’s shit and that’s when he goes super-villain. 

The good: Zsasz. I’m glad we got to see him one last time. He’s always fun. 

BatCat were cute.

I actually enjoyed the uneasy alliance between Oswald and Barbara, where it feels like either of them could stab the other in the back at any moment. Oswald was being an asshole in their last scene, but he wasn’t wrong. 

The Meh: I was never that into this show’s version(s) of Ivy, so I didn’t care about her plot.

I also don’t really care about Jim and Lee, so while the wedding scene was a rare moment of sweetness on this show, it felt more like just a love letter from Ben McKenzie to his IRL wife rather than something that really fit the story. I hated “Dark” Lee, but the way they are writing her like the previous two seasons didn’t happen to her is really irritating. Shouldn’t we see a spark of that darkness in moments like when she shot Ivy? It feels like they just pivoted back to the saintly Lee of seasons one and two just so there will be a direct contrast to Barbara. I hope Morena just really enjoys working with her husband because she is way better than the material they give her.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Kostgard

[Biggie B]

I wish Harvey had officiated at my wedding! Donal Logue was great, and I feel as if he ad-libbed some or all of that scene, and had a great time doing it!

[Sakura12]

I never cared much for Jim so his hallucinations were boring. This filler ep felt like it was more of a goodbye to Jim Gordon letter. 

The only thing I liked was Bruce going for the kiss with Selina. And seeing Zsasz again. Even a love sick one. Ivy Pepper Zsasz. Lol 

I was one that likes Dark Lee better over the one that doesn't do anything. Like this one. I also like how everyone forgives her so easily, she wasn't on any virus last season when she was running around bashing hands and robbing banks with Ed. Speaking of Ed why haven't they had any scenes together. I was digging their relationship. Jim and anyone is just so boring. Lee was much more interesting with Ed. 

[darkestboy]

I really enjoyed this one. Ivy and Zsasz made for a decent team, even if the former's scheme was pretty by the number. Leslie got to shoot her, even if I doubt that'll keep Ivy down for too long.

Zsasz being in love with Ivy, yeah, I can kind of ship. He had some great scenes with Bullock and Alfred this week.

Gordon's nightmare scenes, aside from a few cameos didn't offer anything too insightful but it was still rather diverting. I did like him and Leslie getting married at the end. Bullock should officiate every wedding in Gotham from now.

Bruce and Selina certainly got some of the best scenes in this episode, along with Barbara and Oswald. It does look Babs is about to pop in the next episode though.

Top marks for Ben McKenzie's writing and Erin Richards's directing on this one, 8/10

[Chaos Theory]

There is only three? More episodes so I guess they have to waste time on Jim Gordon’s  guilt one last time.   Honestly my favorite part was Lee asking how it was going to work Barbara and her raising a baby together.  I would watch a spin off of that....if anyone is asking.

A part of me wants Barbara to run far and fast with her baby.   Not going to happen but a girl can dream.   More likely she is going to die and Mr and Mrs Boring will raise her daughter to at least be something interesting.

Although Ivy and Zsasz were a fun team.

Did Erin Richards direct this?  Because the directing was fine but the episode itself was trash.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[ursula]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Ivy Pepper Zsasz. Lol 

That was funny but I was disappointed he wasn't ga-ga-ing over Victor Pepper or Mr Zsazv-Pepper.

ETA: Bruce's hair was a huge gellified mess. For the love of hairspray, let David M rock his Jewfro.

Edited March 8, 2019 by ursula

[Noneofyourbusiness]

The Trial Wedding of Jim Gordon.

Prediction: Barbara dies redemptively not long after giving birth, and that's why Jim and Lee name the baby after her.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[srpturtle80]

9 hours ago, ursula said:

ETA: Bruce's hair was a huge gellified mess. For the love of hairspray, let David M rock his Jewfro.

I could barely look at anything else in his scenes. Good heavens it was large. 

Alfred’s face when he saw Bruce kissing Selina had me rolling. I had to rewind that several times. 

I think Zsasz may just be my favorite character on this show. 

[Dobian]

13 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The Trial Wedding of Jim Gordon.

Prediction: Barbara dies redemptively not long after giving birth, and that's why Jim and Lee name the baby after her.

That might be how it plays out.  Of course in true wacky Gotham style my wish is that it ends with Jim in a crazy polygamist marriage to Lee and Babs!

[superloislane]

Lee is talking about raising the baby? I didn't realise that Jim and Lee were back together full-time. That one kiss they had must have been an amnesia spell for both of them that made them forget the last two seasons

Bruce is still smooth as hell with Selina! Yes Bruce it might be time to leave Gotham, learn multiple fighting techniques and get ripped and come back 10 years later to kick everyone's ass

Damn BatCat will forever be cockblocked!

I love that Alfred got the boot into Zsasz!

When was the last time Alfred and Lee actually spoke to each other? Season 2? But that was a really lovely conversation - it's a good touch to have Alfred talking about being thrown into a situation where he had to raise a child who was not his own but how amazing it has been with Lee who has to go through it herself.

The concept of the trial of Jim Gordon was an interesting one but a lot more could have been done - it was really underwhelming. I thought they would have a number of characters 'testifying' at the trial and bringing us back through a number of seasons of the show almost like a retrospective but I guess not

'People. Ugh!'

Lucius Fox is still the funniest character on this show

Even though I still don't think Peyton List's version of Ivy fits with the previous versions too well, I think she does play a very good Poison Ivy.

We never actually had a fight between Bruce and Selina before so I'm loving this! The future is calling!

I don't believe that Lee and Jim would just get married all of a sudden but I know they have to fast-forward everything this season. I guess season 4 Lee never happened, I wonder if they would have been married if they didn't get extra episodes? But I LOVED her wedding dress!

The BatCat kiss!

Now the filler is over I hope we can actually get back to the plot - whatever that is. Does anyone remember? I can't believe there are only three more episodes left and I feel like not much has even happened

[jhlipton]

On 3/7/2019 at 7:31 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Selina and Bruce making out... and... beating the crap each out of each other earlier.

The BatCat relationship, in so few words!

On 3/8/2019 at 6:57 PM, srpturtle80 said:

I think Zsasz may just be my favorite character on this show. 

Same

[Noneofyourbusiness]

12 hours ago, superloislane said:

Lee is talking about raising the baby? I didn't realise that Jim and Lee were back together full-time. That one kiss they had must have been an amnesia spell for both of them that made them forget the last two seasons

The way they were talking about it as if they had already established it, it's like there was a scene deleted from a previous episode.

[tennisgurl]

You know its Gotham when the wedding vows involve "remember when the bride went on crazy juice and tried to murder the groom!?" and everyone just chuckles like its a funny meet cute about how she once spilled wine on his shorts. Oh Gotham. 

This was a good episode, I like that they keep bringing in every oddball bad guy they have for the last run of episode, like a rouges gallery roulette wheel. I was hoping to see more past characters in Jim's trial, but his imaginary wake with all of the rouges and cops all getting drunk and laughing was great. 

I did feel a bit bad for Barbara, she really was trying to help out in her way, and I do think that she still cares about Jim, and vice versa, I hope that they can work something out between them. I mean, Barbara is all kinds of crazy, but I still kind of hope things work out for her and the baby. At least a little bit. 

The bit between Alfred and Lee about parenting and his happy memories of raising Bruce was a sweet scene. And I liked the stuff with Selina and Bruce as well, and their little kiss! And Alfred and Lucius both looking away! 

Harvey had a good episode, showed some competence and some leadership skills, and he gave a solid wedding speech for Jim! 

"People. Ugh. Have I tried this amazing perfume?"

"That sounds like a random subject change, can we get back to People Ugh?"

Edited March 10, 2019 by tennisgurl

[festivus]

Jim and Lee. Bleh. I actually liked them the first time around but that ship has sailed. This was another boring episode, Zsasz being the only bright spot.

[Camera One]

This episode was alright, but a little underwhelming.  If they had an episode to fill before the end, they should have gone full out with the trial in Jim's head.  Barbara, Harvey and Bruce should all have testified.  Heck, they could have just done a wacked out dream where Bruce's parents were never killed or Gordon never became Harvey's partner or something.

I still find Lee suddenly reverting to her previous normal self very jarring.  At least give a viable reason for the turnaround.  

Zsasz was funny as always but the whole Ivy Pepper perfume part was annoying to watch.  All it takes to snap out of it is a punch to the face?  

I thought Bruce's hair was distracting too, along with the weird trenchcoat he's always wearing.  

[Gobi]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Zsasz was funny as always but the whole Ivy Pepper perfume part was annoying to watch.  All it takes to snap out of it is a punch to the face?  

I thought Bruce's hair was distracting too, along with the weird trenchcoat he's always wearing.  

I wondered why Zsasz didn't snap out of it after Alfred kicked him in the head.

I think the trench coat is supposed to foreshadow his cape.

[jhlipton]

17 hours ago, Camera One said:

the whole Ivy Pepper perfume part was annoying to watch.  All it takes to snap out of it is a punch to the face? 

All it takes is a small spray, so the cure matches the cause.

[Chaos Theory]

Although I absolutely loathed the Jim Gordon dream stuff I think it was necessary so he could marry Lee in order to close out his storyline considering certain necessary cannon details when it comes to him.  The show needed to make a choice between Lee and Barbara.   I adored bad girl Lee and loved her as Queen of the Narrows so her suddenly becoming pure as snow again and the show just outright dropping the Lee and Nygma incredibly fun romance I am just right off as a final act erase necessary to finish the story where it needs to go.  Although they just could have written a

"S'Up" nod and "a murder chip in head....could have been worse considering.  Yeah no added body parts or death rays coming out of  our eyes.  Oh That would have been cool.  Yeah would have been cool.  Well?  Yeah uhhh Well.  Bye Ngyma.  Bye Lee.  "     Would have been a three minute scene.

I am guessing that Barbara isn't going to survive the end of the show.

I am hoping that I at least cry when she dies.

I will be greatly disappointed if her death  is not hugely monumental.  Like the good guys would have lost if Barbara doesn't do something brave stupid and heroic......mainly for her kid.  You know because she actually loves her kid.  And it brings back the whole reason she killed her parents was they never loved her.

THIS is how much I love you.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:18 AM, Lantern7 said:

Has I mentioned I'm going to miss Gotham when it's over? Because I will. I am so going to miss it. Arrow will be wrapping up at the end of the near, but I don't think I've had as much fun watching that.

Basically, Ivy's turn comes up on the proverbial Wheel of Psychos, so she uses her special perfume to "convince" Zsasz to shoot Jim. And he does . . . but since he's a major canon character, all he gets is a nightmarish kangaroo court, as he's haunted by his failures. Since Ivy basically thinks she's the Lorax (speaking for nature), she gets Bruce and Lucius to reverse the repairs done to the river. Selina winds up breaking them out of that (Lucius: "You kicked me in the face"), and Lee winds up shooting Ivy, so crisis averted there. One month later, Jim and Lee get married. Sure, it's by Harvey, who probably doesn't have the authroity, but what the hell, right?

I kinda feel bad for Barbara. She didn't even show up in Jim's nightmare. Sure, she's a mess mentally, but she shouldn't just be the babymama. Maybe she can be salvaged. But not she's ready to run off with the rugrat.

Somany little moments . . . Alfred punching and stomping out Zsasz, Bruce and Lucius trips on Ivy's perfume, Zsasz being Zsasz and being in love with Ivy, Oswald taking two punches from Harvey, and he winds up darting away from Harvey for the rest of his visit. And the assorted garish costumes of the gangs . . . like the result of an orgy between the TV series, The Dark Knight Returns and the Tim Burton movies.

I'm going to miss this series when it's gone.

It's interesting that the other DC series all had crossovers, Gotham never did, didn't even mention Metropolis or anything. 

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:18 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

Nice quality harvey this episode. Love him to death. He loves jim so much :')

and whether or not people like jimlee together, i'm just so happy nothing bad happened at the wedding. It was a really nice moment. Had a big grin on my face the entire time. 

another 2 week break 😞

3 more episodes left 😞

ughhhh it's really ending soon T︵T

Yes, a social event in Gotham that goes according to plan!

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:25 AM, Kostgard said:

I was meh on the episode. Clearly filler, but since it was a last minute order, certainly understandable.

Oswald has got to be really, really tired of getting blamed for everything. The slightest thing goes wrong, and everyone runs to blame him (despite his record of not being the worst thing in the city). This series better end with him burning the whole place down because he’s sick of everyone’s shit and that’s when he goes super-villain. 

The good: Zsasz. I’m glad we got to see him one last time. He’s always fun. 

BatCat were cute.

I actually enjoyed the uneasy alliance between Oswald and Barbara, where it feels like either of them could stab the other in the back at any moment. Oswald was being an asshole in their last scene, but he wasn’t wrong. 

The Meh: I was never that into this show’s version(s) of Ivy, so I didn’t care about her plot.

I also don’t really care about Jim and Lee, so while the wedding scene was a rare moment of sweetness on this show, it felt more like just a love letter from Ben McKenzie to his IRL wife rather than something that really fit the story. I hated “Dark” Lee, but the way they are writing her like the previous two seasons didn’t happen to her is really irritating. Shouldn’t we see a spark of that darkness in moments like when she shot Ivy? It feels like they just pivoted back to the saintly Lee of seasons one and two just so there will be a direct contrast to Barbara. I hope Morena just really enjoys working with her husband because she is way better than the material they give her.

Ahh, now I get why we've had 2 filler eps, they extended the season !

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:47 PM, icemiser69 said:

I would rather have Lee and Barbara hookup and leave Ben whistling in the wind.

I think Babs has her eyes on Selina for that sort of thing. 

[Joe Hellandback]

1.  A little too obvious it was Ivy spying on Batcat's date, couldn't they have teased it out a little more and made you think it was Ecco or something.

2. Love Penguin's expression of horror at Babs' bump, obviously not a fan of maternity.

3.  For a supposed black belt at ju-jitsu poor Lucius does seem to be everyone's punching bag. 

4. "Time to boogie", yay for Alfred fighting in true SAS style, sneak up behind the bad guy, knock him to the floor and kick him in the head. 

5.  Still quite a shock when Lee shoots Ivy but you forget she has killed before. 

6. Nice to see some old faces in Jim's hallucination, I doubt that was really Cory Michael Smith on the piano, probably his stunt double. 

7. Good plan by Babs poisoning everyone but do her league of assassins guards just hang around all day glaring at people? 

8. So Gotham is running out of water? Doesn't it ever rain? 

9.  Victor and Ivy, what shall we call that 'Zaivy'? Although you'd think people would start developing an immunity to her whammy by now?

10.  Nice plan with the bomb suit Harvey, once again a chance for him to shine this ep, taking charge and no one questions it at all. Also nice to see Alvarez back, I was wondering where he'd been lately.   

11. Jim and Lee's wedding, my god a Gotham social event which isn't interrupted by a costumed psycho!

12. Wanted Selina to catch Lee's boquet but settle for some Batcat kissy kissy.

7/10 

[John Potts]

If I was living in Gotham, I'd be more concerned about food than the water. You can distil the river water and/or collect rainwater. I'd be more concerned about food - it's not like there are vast plains of arable land inside the city and food doesn't fall from the sky.

Good to see Harvey engaging in some good old fashioned police work... He actually had a good episode all round. He even remembered Ed's walking into the GCPD a couple of weeks back.

How exactly does Ivy's power work? Surely if Bruce sprayed Lucius with Ivy's magic potion he should fall in love with him. But I guess even a coerced gay relationship is too much for mainstream TV?

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:12 PM, superloislane said:

Lee is talking about raising the baby? I didn't realise that Jim and Lee were back together full-time. That one kiss they had must have been an amnesia spell for both of them that made them forget the last two seasons

Why are people so concerned whether Lee is going to be a good mother? She's not pregnant and Barbara doesn't seem that interested in involving Jim anyway. Maybe if Babs does die in the Finale, she will end up being Baby Babs' stepmom, but it's like Jim is some sort of paterfamilias who has an absolute right to bring up his children when the mother has no interest in involving him. Did like Alfred's conversation with Lee about sudden onset parenthood, though.

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:18 AM, Lantern7 said:

Jim and Lee get married. Sure, it's by Harvey, who probably doesn't have the authority, but what the hell, right?

He doesn't. He concluded the wedding with, "By the power invested in me by absolutely no one, I pronounce you husband and wife!" Though I thought the candles around the GCPD were kinda cute and very fitting.

23 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

"Time to boogie", yay for Alfred fighting in true SAS style, sneak up behind the bad guy, knock him to the floor and kick him in the head.

It's a shame nobody else realises that the best way to attack somebody is not to announce your presence first.

[Joe Hellandback]

8 hours ago, John Potts said:

If I was living in Gotham, I'd be more concerned about food than the water. You can distil the river water and/or collect rainwater. I'd be more concerned about food - it's not like there are vast plains of arable land inside the city and food doesn't fall from the sky.

Good to see Harvey engaging in some good old fashioned police work... He actually had a good episode all round. He even remembered Ed's walking into the GCPD a couple of weeks back.

How exactly does Ivy's power work? Surely if Bruce sprayed Lucius with Ivy's magic potion he should fall in love with him. But I guess even a coerced gay relationship is too much for mainstream TV?

Why are people so concerned whether Lee is going to be a good mother? She's not pregnant and Barbara doesn't seem that interested in involving Jim anyway. Maybe if Babs does die in the Finale, she will end up being Baby Babs' stepmom, but it's like Jim is some sort of paterfamilias who has an absolute right to bring up his children when the mother has no interest in involving him. Did like Alfred's conversation with Lee about sudden onset parenthood, though.

He doesn't. He concluded the wedding with, "By the power invested in me by absolutely no one, I pronounce you husband and wife!" Though I thought the candles around the GCPD were kinda cute and very fitting.

It's a shame nobody else realises that the best way to attack somebody is not to announce your presence first.

Well they can't distil the river water, Jerimiah poisoned it? I figure there are so few people left in Gotham, only a few hundred from a city of millions so they can stretch out their food supplies and also start their own dig for victory campaign. 

 These are superheroes/villains, it wouldn't be them without a bit of posturing. 

[CletusMusashi]

This one was hard to get through. 

Oh, I loved everything Zsasz. Whether he was shooting at people, getting his ass kicked, or just sitting around talking, I enjoyed literally every moment of him. I also enjoyed all two or three minutes of Barbara. And the only thing missing from Penguin's gleeful rant was him eating a box of popcorn. But the rest of it?

Ivy's big environmentalist plan is to pollute? Not to, oh, I don't know... maybe just keep on enslaving all the humans, force them to make themselves useful cleaning shit up like Lucius was, recycle the surplus population into fertilizer, and have a nicer cleaner island to be plant queen on?

I also could have done without Bruce developing the Christian Bale voice at the end.

But worse than that...

I hate dream episodes. Nothing that happens in them has any real stakes. I mean, were we seriously supposed to wonder if Gordon was going to die or not? The outcome was a given, plus it was boring. Plus... I'm really not that invested Lee and Gordon as a couple. And why the hell was Bullock performing the ceremony anyway? What is he, a sea captain? 

Edited September 24, 2021 by CletusMusashi