S01.E17: Goodbye

[formerlyfreedom]

With questions still lingering around Jon’s death, his loved ones try to move on, each taking meaningful steps forward in their own lives. As most of them begin to accept that they may never get the explanation they desire, an unexpected member of the group decides to dig even further into the mystery behind Barbara Morgan.

Season finale, airing Thursday, February 28, 2019!

[ams1001]

Colin!

[chitowngirl]

Katherine! SNAP!!!

[crgirl412]

I am not a Delilah-hater like so many here.  I do not agree with adultery at ALL but I kind of like Eddie and Delilah together.  They have life in them, laugh and smile frequently.  Katherine has left me cold from the beginning as she is so boring and dour.

[LucyEth]

If that is all there is to Barbara Morgan, not very exciting.  I think there is still more, why would Delilah have to leave just because their son was coming home?  He has no reason to even know Delilah.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, LucyEth said:

If that is all there is to Barbara Morgan, not very exciting.  I think there is still more, why would Delilah have to leave just because their son was coming home?  He has no reason to even know Delilah.

Right? If he asks who she is do they think they have to tell him all about his real father who he doesn't know about? Just tell him something innocuous and move on. "Oh, she's a friend from work who had to pick up some papers." Or whatever. It's not that difficult to come up with something.

 

Rome, dude, not the time or place for this conversation.

 

We can't have this woman in the house but we can leave the laptop sitting around with the video cued up? Makes sense.

[LucyEth]

I knew Barbara Morgan was not a done deal.  Her son is the kid Rome is helping, that's a weird twist.  I guess after Eddie tells Katherine about the baby he will be running to be at D's side.  Felt very bad for Rome after Regina's blunt walk away answer.

[debraran]

I don't know enough about survivor guilt but I find it hard to think Jon laughed and cried and lived through 17 911 memorials and he decided then to kill himself. IDK, it seems like more to come.

PJ seemed to know to look at mom's computer but why hide his dad died with many others on 911. Nothing to be ashamed of?

A bit of a let down since most guessed at this so I think there might be more. All the financials, still not settled.

[iwasish]

PJ is Barbara Morgan’s kid? 

[Lady Calypso]

Showwwwwwww.....do NOT tease me with Eddie actually telling Katherine the truth and starting him on his path to redemption. Don't rip that away in season 2 with him getting interrupted. Please, DJ Nash, please give me SOME hope for Eddie here. 

I liked the finale. I mean, they did butcher a lot of Jon's story, but the conclusion was alright. 

Of course PJ is Patrick. Thank fucking god he's not Jon's kid. 

Show, you also better NOT have Regina give in. Unfortunately, they've already gone halfway with her admitting she's thought about kids and might want them, after all. 

Eddie/Katherine had so much more chemistry than Eddie/Delilah. Eddie/Delilah are so damn dull. Eddie/Katherine seem to be fixing their relationship, so again, I'm still hoping for the best with them here. Katherine has every right to be pissed, but at least if Eddie actually gets to tell her, there's more hope than if she found out from someone else.

Also, why were Hunter/Katherine so hostile toward each other? Did I miss something? 

Ok, so I was wrong about Mitch being Jon's twin. But they really DID frame him weirdly a few episodes ago. 

The Gary stuff has been strong this season, especially when it comes to Jon. I also didn't mind Maggie going into remission. Now, cue the countdown until Gary or Maggie propose and one of their cancers comes back next season.

[LucyEth]

Just now, iwasish said:

PJ is Barbara Morgan’s kid? 

Wasn't that the same young man, maybe I have it wrong.  

[PurpleFishHead]

Fuck you, show. You are not well written enough to use 9/11. Fuck you

[iwasish]

Why did Jon have to leave Barbara Morgan money ? Wouldn’t she have been able to stake a claim with the 9/11 fund? Even if she wasn’t married to Dave, the unborn baby should have gotten something. Why does PJ use his initials and his folks call him Patrick? There’s something else there.

Interesting twist that someone else is passing as PJ’s father and Jon  is as Eddie’s baby’s father. 

[chitowngirl]

2 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Why does PJ use his initials and his folks call him Patrick? 

My family calls me by a different nickname than I use in my “real” life. That’s not unusual.

[debraran]

I didn't think they did the 911 stuff well but they couldn't do the show well in an hour. If they had him die end of the season, maybe more could be developed. Barbara loved Dave too but she moved on. Jon tried too, seemed to do well, he could have done so much with his money for a 911 fund or made a scholarship secretly for PJ he got later or something like that.

A bit disjointed for me, the financials were so important, Jon said it was over, they were finished, they were broke.  I felt it was many things but the guilt isn't totally working for me 20 years later.

If Jon gave him his ticket, yes, but he would just be another passenger.

Edited March 1, 2019 by debraran

[kazza]

20 minutes ago, iwasish said:

PJ is Barbara Morgan’s kid? 

Maybe it's Patrick Jonathan.

[zillabreeze]

30 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, why were Hunter/Katherine so hostile toward each other? Did I miss something? 

I had that exact question!  He was acting butt hurt about something and tap dancing right around sexual harassment ("your work seems to be suffering").  Then Katherine puts him in his place.

I just don't remember anything dramatic between them to cause that interaction.

Edited March 1, 2019 by zillabreeze

[ams1001]

She was mad at him that he waited to tell her about being made partner until the morning after they slept together. 

[iwasish]

1 minute ago, kazza said:

Maybe it's Patrick Jonathan.

Shouldn’t it be Patrick David after his real father, or is the big secret for Season 2 that Jon betrayed Dave by banging Barbara? That would compound his guilt. Barbara’s hubby seems too angry for the circumstances. Dave is dead, there isn’t any threat to Mitch’s role as PJ’s father. Unless!! ....Jon is really the father of PJ, something he may or may  not have been aware of. 

Delilah’s baby is coming early.... Eddie is looking to make some kind of confession to Katherine... I see a potential medical crisis, maybe Rh incompatibility between Eddie and Delilah? 

Sophie was the  name of the airline employee who denied Jon’s entry to the flight. 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, iwasish said:

Sophie was the  name of the airline employee who denied Jon’s entry to the flight. 

I actually caught that. I wonder who Danny is named after.

[Gothish520]

That was not at all what I was expecting. A different twist for sure, not a letdown, just interesting. I still get that awful feeling of dread when images or stories from 9/11 are brought up.

 I really hope that Eddie gets to tell Katherine the truth and they find some way to work through it. I cheered when Eddie jumped at that kiss!

Katherine handing Hunter his balls was awesome. 

Maggie and Gary brought all the feels. Gary at Jon's grave was touching.

 #TeamRegina... Rome pressuring her about having a baby is not cool. 

[Guest]

So instead of it being a million little things it was really one or two big things. I am so tired of there being a big dramatic past secret. Maggie’s guilt over her brothers death, Regina’s being abused as a child and now Jon’s 9/11 survivors guilt. I don’t think I sticking around to find out what big dramatic secret the others are hiding. 

41 minutes ago, PurpleFishHead said:

Fuck you, show. You are not well written enough to use 9/11. Fuck you

Yep. This just felt manipulative. 

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

That was not at all what I was expecting. A different twist for sure, not a letdown, just interesting. I still get that awful feeling of dread when images or stories from 9/11 are brought up.

 I really hope that Eddie gets to tell Katherine the truth and they find some way to work through it. I cheered when Eddie jumped at that kiss!

Katherine handing Hunter his balls was awesome. 

Maggie and Gary brought all the feels. Gary at Jon's grave was touching.

 #TeamRegina... Rome pressuring her about having a baby is not cool. 

Rome picked the wrong time but I hope they can discuss if later. He needs to take care of himself first . 

Edited March 1, 2019 by debraran

[nexxie]

Enjoyed the bar scene where Delilah spoke French - she sounds much more natural that way.

[Gothish520]

3 minutes ago, debraran said:

Am I mistaken they misspelled Jons name on tombstone? I thought it said John . They joked they misspelled it on award they gave Gary. Just odd 

I just checked, it has his full name,  Jonathan Damian Dixon

[iwasish]

I find it kind of hard to believe that missing his flight and living while Dave made the flight and died would be that devastating and guilt inducing. There were many instances and unusual situations that caused people who would have otherwise been killed to live.   And situations that people who would not have been on the towers  or on those flights to be there and sadly die. If Jon had made the flight he would have died also. (Then Barbara would really have been alone.)

Feeling that guilty because he was angry at Barbara for moving on “too soon” to me is also kind of far fetched. Barbara told him she couldn’t get thru the pregnancy alone and the firefighter was there for her. What did he expect her to do? Had he even been in touch with her since 9/11 when they met up at the airport ?

Edited March 1, 2019 by iwasish

[debraran]

Thanks I was too tired 😉.  He can Rest In Peace without a blooper. 

[nexxie]

1 minute ago, iwasish said:

I find it kind of hard to believe that missing his flight and living while Dave made the flight and died would be that devastating and guilt inducing. There were many instances and unusual situations that caused people who would have otherwise been killed to live.   And situations that people who would not have been on the towers  or on those flights to be there and sadly die. 

Feeling that guilty because he was angry at Barbara for moving on “too soon” to me is also kind of far fetched. Barbara told him she couldn’t get thru the pregnancy alone and the firefighter was there for her. What did he expect her to do? Had he even been in touch with her since 9/11 when they met up at the airport ?

But didn’t Jon talk Dave into going on the trip in the first place?

[debraran]

1 minute ago, iwasish said:

I find it kind of hard to believe that missing his flight and living while Dave made the flight and died would be that devastating and guilt inducing. There were many instances and unusual situations that caused people who would have otherwise been killed to live.   And situations that people who would not have been on the towers  or on those flights to be there and sadly die. 

Feeling that guilty because he was angry at Barbara for moving on “too soon” to me is also kind of far fetched. Barbara told him she couldn’t get thru the pregnancy alone and the firefighter was there for her. What did he expect her to do? Had he even been in touch with her since 9/11 when they met up at the airport ?

If he felt anything for her he might have stepped up but I think she was his friends girl and no romantic feelings.  I think the abandonment he meant  was that. If could have been a taxi he missed and it got in an accident with friend, anything really. 

[readster]

2 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I find it kind of hard to believe that missing his flight and living while Dave made the flight and died would be that devastating and guilt inducing. There were many instances and unusual situations that caused people who would have otherwise been killed to live.   And situations that people who would not have been on the towers  or on those flights to be there and sadly die. 

Feeling that guilty because he was angry at Barbara for moving on “too soon” to me is also kind of far fetched. Barbara told him she couldn’t get thru the pregnancy alone and the firefighter was there for her. What did he expect her to do? Had he even been in touch with her since 9/11 when they met up at the airport ?

That's where is really just rang false. Let's face it, even 18 years later, things can haunt you. However, to have that kind of a trigger after so long, just doesn't make sense. It's so out of left field and it also paints Delilah as a true idiot for not know more about Jon's past. I can see him not sharing that, but to be so hit with survivor's guilt like that and even 2 kids later and a marriage he wasn't really honest in. To then all of a sudden be: "Well, I know my wife is sleeping with my friend, and I was trying to keep a 911 fund going, but that's all over now. Going to go leap to my doom." Then acting like his secretary was protecting some big secret. As I said several episodes ago, she protected nothing! 

  Same goes with Rome now going to Regina about having a baby because now, she is facing her past. No, that is as stupid as Regina wanting Rome off the pills so they could have sex again. Neither of them are facing their REAL problems. Seriously, go see a damn shrink. 

[nexxie]

Well, the season ended with cliffhangers that make me want to tune in again.

[possibilities]

Regina did not want Rome to go off his pills. She told him she wanted him to go back on them, that his well-being was more important. Of course, the show never followed up on that. Is he on them or off them> Did they change to a new medicine? Is he getting therapy? Who knows?

Maybe Regina and Rome will get a divorce and Katherine and Eddie will reconcile. I 100% agree that Rome just fleeing into parenthood so soon after nearly killing himself is a bad idea. And I also do not want them to have Regina change her mind and agree to have kids. So, either Rome and Regina split, or Rome finds another way to satisfy his desire to take care of kids. He could be a "Big Brother" or a teacher or any number of other things. ONCE HIS MENTAL HEALTH IS CLEAR.

Survivor guilt can be terrible. But Jon not doing anything about it is crazy. Tell people. Join a survivor group. Do something. A lot of survivors struggle, but wallowing in his grief is not helping anyone. It's self-indulgent. A lot of survivors are fighting like hell and he has to know about that. I guess I'm impatient. I realize sometimes people do fall apart and not recover after tragedy, but this show acts like that's the only or the most sympathetic option. I feel like it doesn't help survivors, if they just leave it at "how sad" instead of proposing alternatives. Pity is not love, pity is not respect. This show is pitying. Maggie, too. I guess I just don't find wallowing to be that interesting.

Colin was the best part of the episode. And he made two appearances! Maybe I should get rid of my TV and get a dog.

[WeeklyLaugh]

I think Jon was on the down low with, Dave, the guy that died.   That is why he was so overly guilt ridden.  Let’s just throw in that he had a fling with Barbara too.  

Edited March 1, 2019 by WeeklyLaugh

[Dowel Jones]

I had to laugh a bit when Maggie was trying to explain how there is no one answer for everything.  It almost seemed like she wanted to say "It's not just one stone, it's..it's.. a mil.." before coming up with "it's a lot of stones."

So, Mitch is angry that Delilah, the wife of the guy who was friends with Barbara's former boyfriend before Mitch ever met her, wants to know what Jon said to her?  Something doesn't add up here.  Yet another little thing for S2.

Having a baby while she's trying to establish herself as a chef in the uber-competitive world of restaurants.  Good idea, Rome.  Get the sports car.

[nexxie]

3 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I had to laugh a bit when Maggie was trying to explain how there is no one answer for everything.  It almost seemed like she wanted to say "It's not just one stone, it's..it's.. a mil.." before coming up with "it's a lot of stones."

So, Mitch is angry that Delilah, the wife of the guy who was friends with Barbara's former boyfriend before Mitch ever met her, wants to know what Jon said to her?  Something doesn't add up here.  Yet another little thing for S2.

Having a baby while she's trying to establish herself as a chef in the uber-competitive world of restaurants.  Good idea, Rome.  Get the sports car.

Maybe Mitch knows that Jon is the father of their son - and is afraid Delilah will see the resemblance. They cast someone who looks like he could be Jon’s kid. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by nexxie

[debraran]

2 hours ago, nexxie said:

Maybe Mitch knows that Jon was the father of their son.

Jon never let on that could be a possibility. I don't think he slept with his best friends girl. I didn't sense that at all and why not try to be with her then. I didn't feel any chemistry with that duo though.

I still feel the 2 year mark wasn't just him planning, something else happened. A trigger of sorts. Did he see them, did he have a flashback or did Dave's parents or brother or someone contact him. Who knows but it seemed like he went from bestie to everyone to
"on a mission" to leave his family and himself.  I also feel as I've said before, Jon taking pills makes more sense, jumping and possibly hurting others at lunch time is just not the Jon Dixon they showed. He knew what the outcome would be, how the news and police would handle it,  how Sophie and Danny would hear about it, just not the character they showed. If he wanted to die that way, I saw him going at 10pm or midnight, working late, leaving notes and jumping.

[Aileen]

8 hours ago, PurpleFishHead said:

Fuck you, show. You are not well written enough to use 9/11. Fuck you

I literally yelled “Fuck you, A Million Little Things!” At the TV.

[bybrandy]

Survivor's guilt can be a terrible thing.  IF he has a little bit of that on top of a little bit of a lot of other things.  It is a million little things but those things are what was weighing on Jon's mind.   

I'm glad that Eddie is coming clean.  hopefully he manages to make a clean breast of it before he gets the call about the baby and doesn't get interrupted.   

I don't want Rome to pressure Reggie into changing her mind.  But I don't mind that he's at a place where he's changing his mind.  Especially because they haven't sold for me that it is real.   He feels good about Sophie.  He feels good about that boy who read his script.  He has baby rabies not because he wants a baby but because he wants that high of helping somebody.

I will be cheesed off, however, if Regina leaves the delivery room with baby rabies.  

I don't know if I'm here next season or not, though.  Although my chances of it go up a bit with Eddie coming clean with Katherine because I was so, so, so, so not here for Katherine to get blindsided again.

[Dusty]

I think the only reason I do like the Katheine/Eddie storyline the best out of everything on the show, if I ignore the baby thing, is because of the actors are doing a really great job with it and they're just making it look better than it really is. They've elevating the writing.  Their chemistry is good and it makes me want to root for them. I feel like Katherine is doing all the heavy lifting though. Eddie seems like he just goes with the flow. There's been no real closure with Delilah/Eddie, also ignoring the baby thing. It wasn't that long ago when he was looking for an apartment that he was talking to her about it being their place or whatever. I would have liked it better if it was Eddie actively making the decision that he wanted to be with Katherine. That he wanted to fight for her and giving her the choice of whether or not they will.

To get some perspective is not a good reason to have a baby. I'm so annoyed at Rome for saying that after Regina said she was still worried about him. That's a really crappy way to put it on her. I really hope Regina doesn't change her mind because Rome is making these impulsive decisions on what would be the miracle fix to his depression. Having kids doesn't fix depression. I mean come on! Rome should remember why he's been stepping up with Jon's kids in the first place.

DJ Nash really should've just gotten on the writing staff of Riverdale or Dynasty. That's the kind of show he wants to write. It just really bothers me that he's used suicide and depression as a vehicle for his soap opera. Not to mention Regina's childhood sexual abuse and now just throwing in 9/11 in there for the shock value. He's not even doing the subject matters any justice, which can be done in a soap opera. I've seen some soap operas handle tough subject matter really well.

[sigmaforce86]

I don't have a problem with the 9/11 connection.  I had a family friend on the flight from Boston that went into the towers, in a freaky coincidence her first name was Barbara.  I still think of her at random times not just the anniversary and wonder what her final moments were like, how much did she know about what was happening, did she see they were about to hit  (it waffles between hoping she realized very little and fearing her final hour was terror filled).  Would someone who missed one of those flights hold it in all those years then do what Jon did?  I don't know but I think it's possible and the variations of grief are complicated enough that it's not a totally out of left field trigger.

Did not see the PJ thing coming at all, not at all, they definitely tricked me with that one.  That said there is something wrong with Barbara's husband.  If he calmly said ..  Hey, PJ will be home soon and gee I don't want him to see you two crying I'm not sure what we'd say to him......that's one thing.  But to not even try to think up a lie or half-lie and angrily demand that Delilah get out is weird and controlling.  It wouldn't have even needed a lie - If I was a teen and came home and found Mom crying with some stranger and my parents said to me "This is the wife of Jon, an old college roommate of your Mom's, he died and his wife was just looking up some of his old friends" - That would sound normal to me and I wouldn't have thought it was weird or suspicious at all.

Best parts of the episode - Human:  Katherine taking Hunter down so calmly and effectively.  Non-Human:  That dogs reaction to Maggie petting him.  Happy pup right there.

Rome & Regina - They need to establish whether Regina is opposed to being pregnant or being a Mom.  Because if it's just pregnancy and maybe newborns aren't for her (responsibility for feedings, diapers etc) there are ways around it, if the issue is having kids of any age around, that she doesn't want to do the "Mom" thing then Rome has to respect that.  There are other ways to raise kids, Rome should realize if Regina doesn't want a pregnancy or a newborn but is open to having a child around then fostering or adopting an older child could be on the table especially since older kids are so often passed over.  If Regina doesn't want to be a Mom at all Rome should explore if his need could be fulfilled by mentoring or being a big brother.   

Eddie is going to tell Katherine about the baby for sure.  Positive side; he's right about no more secrets and they can't reconcile if there's something that big hanging out there that she could find out in the future.  Negative side; there's a real possibility that this will be the final straw and she'll tell him he can't move back yet or she no longer wants to even try and she's filing the divorce papers after all.  Honestly; every character on this show needs some sort of therapy; Eddie and Katherine included.  Katherine should have made couples therapy a condition of him moving back and trying for the marriage again.

[seacliffsal]

I would think that Kathryn should have been at the "giving of the gifts" after all she did for Delilah and her friendship with Jon.  Would it have been awkward?  Sure, but they're all adults (except for the kids...) and they would not have been sitting in the big beautiful mansion without her help.

Loved Kathryn's response to Hunter's subtle gaslighting about her work.  

And it's amazing how much money the restaurant must be making after only a few weeks of being open that Rome can afford a Mercedes sports car, especially as he hasn't sold his script yet.

I always wonder what world many script writers live in where the characters don't have to work yet can live in mansions, drive fancy cars, and never have to go to work...

Oh, and yay Carl Patrick... I knew the story line as soon as he came home off camera and said hello to his father  and I recognized the actor's voice as I've watched the actor grow up over the various seasons of, well, that other show...

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Felt very bad for Rome after Regina's blunt walk away answer.

I did not feel bad for Rome at all. Regina has been clear about not wanting to have a child all along.  I can feel sympathy that he feels he's at a cross roads with a partner who does not want what he does - but I'd feel more sympathy if it seemed like it was an organic desire rather than a way to "fix" him.

12 hours ago, debraran said:

PJ seemed to know to look at mom's computer but why hide his dad died with many others on 911. Nothing to be ashamed of?

PJ may not know the father who raised him isn't his biological father.

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Show, you also better NOT have Regina give in. Unfortunately, they've already gone halfway with her admitting she's thought about kids and might want them, after all.

I was worried about it for a bit, but she shut him down pretty thoroughly there at the end.

11 hours ago, debraran said:

Rome picked the wrong time but I hope they can discuss if later. He needs to take care of himself first . 

He does need to do that. He just has to be prepared that he might not get the answer he wants  - and decide if it's a deal breaker for him. Regina seems pretty clear about what she wants (or doesn't).

3 hours ago, Dusty said:

To get some perspective is not a good reason to have a baby. I'm so annoyed at Rome for saying that after Regina said she was still worried about him. That's a really crappy way to put it on her. I really hope Regina doesn't change her mind because Rome is making these impulsive decisions on what would be the miracle fix to his depression. Having kids doesn't fix depression. I mean come on! Rome should remember why he's been stepping up with Jon's kids in the first place.

It's right up there with having a child to save the marriage. It's an impossible burden to put on a child.

It seems Barbara's in a possibly abusive marriage - so maybe that money will help her get out of it (and maybe that's why Jon left it to her, in addition to his guilt).

I was glad that they showed that Delilah's disinterest in following up on Jon's past was annoying to everyone else (or at least that they didn't understand it).

How long since the surgery was this supposed to be? Because Maggie lifting a box not just after surgery, but presumably after having her lymph nodes removed, seemed kind of crazy.

I loved Katherine's shut down of work guy. He sure did a 180 over this season, sexy nice hot guy to douche.

Four weeks early is not that early (well, in my limited experience - both of mine were born that early, and they were discharged with me within 24 hours). But they'll likely have some drama.

So, the title "Goodbye" serves for both Gary's goodbye to Jon at the graveside, but could also foreshadow goodbyes for some of the couples. I like a title that serves multiple story lines.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Clanstarling

[cinsays]

51 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

And it's amazing how much money the restaurant must be making after only a few weeks of being open that Rome can afford a Mercedes sports car, especially as he hasn't sold his script yet.

I always wonder what world many script writers live in where the characters don't have to work yet can live in mansions, drive fancy cars, and never have to go to work... 

Yeah, and I thought I heard one of them talking about the lease on the Tesla that they just had......

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, Dusty said:

I think the only reason I do like the Katheine/Eddie storyline the best out of everything on the show, if I ignore the baby thing, is because of the actors are doing a really great job with it and they're just making it look better than it really is. They've elevating the writing.  Their chemistry is good and it makes me want to root for them. I feel like Katherine is doing all the heavy lifting though. Eddie seems like he just goes with the flow. There's been no real closure with Delilah/Eddie, also ignoring the baby thing. It wasn't that long ago when he was looking for an apartment that he was talking to her about it being their place or whatever. I would have liked it better if it was Eddie actively making the decision that he wanted to be with Katherine. That he wanted to fight for her and giving her the choice of whether or not they will.

To get some perspective is not a good reason to have a baby. I'm so annoyed at Rome for saying that after Regina said she was still worried about him. That's a really crappy way to put it on her. I really hope Regina doesn't change her mind because Rome is making these impulsive decisions on what would be the miracle fix to his depression. Having kids doesn't fix depression. I mean come on! Rome should remember why he's been stepping up with Jon's kids in the first place.

DJ Nash really should've just gotten on the writing staff of Riverdale or Dynasty. That's the kind of show he wants to write. It just really bothers me that he's used suicide and depression as a vehicle for his soap opera. Not to mention Regina's childhood sexual abuse and now just throwing in 9/11 in there for the shock value. He's not even doing the subject matters any justice, which can be done in a soap opera. I've seen some soap operas handle tough subject matter really well.

This was the first time that I felt like maybe DJ Nash was going to actually dump the idea of Delilah/Eddie as the endgame couple. I'm still hesitant on saying for sure that the adulterers are over for good, but they definitely gave me more hope with how Eddie/Katherine ended the season. Him starting to come clean does give me hope here. I genuinely believe that Eddie wants to finally work out his marriage with Katherine. It turns out all they needed to do was talk all this time. It's a shame an affair and a possible divorce had to get them to actually communicate, but it was nice to actually feel like Eddie was ready to work on his marriage. And finally, I feel like maybe Eddie isn't as in love with Delilah anymore, or maybe he wasn't truly in love with her. However, I feel like this was never planned at the beginning but this is only changing because of the backlash against Delilah/Eddie.

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

I would think that Kathryn should have been at the "giving of the gifts" after all she did for Delilah and her friendship with Jon.  Would it have been awkward?  Sure, but they're all adults (except for the kids...) and they would not have been sitting in the big beautiful mansion without her help.

I'll admit that I missed the reason why Maggie got something of Jon's when she never even knew the guy. I'd think Jon would have rather given Katherine something, since they were apparently close (still bitter we got no flashbacks of those two).

15 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

How long since the surgery was this supposed to be? Because Maggie lifting a box not just after surgery, but presumably after having her lymph nodes removed, seemed kind of crazy.

I think something like a month had passed. Delilah was about eight months pregnant in this episode. I thought last episode, she was about seven.

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I will be cheesed off, however, if Regina leaves the delivery room with baby rabies.  

I don't expect it to happen that quickly, but I do expect Regina to change her mind over the course of next season, which....fuck.

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Jon never let on that could be a possibility. I don't think he slept with his best friends girl. I didn't sense that at all and why not try to be with her then. I didn't feel any chemistry with that duo though.

Honestly, with this show, I'm expecting some sort of twist with PJ, and him being Jon's kid isn't out of the realm of possibilities. That's not to say I want it to happen; I really, really don't. 

[Neurochick]

12 hours ago, nexxie said:

But didn’t Jon talk Dave into going on the trip in the first place?

Yes he did.  It was Jon's conference not Dave's, he talked Dave into going because he said they'd have fun.  Dave wasn't supposed to be on that plane and that's why Jon felt guilty.  

I didn't mind the 9/11 connection because there are a lot of people who never even think about 9/11 until it's the anniversary of it.  I live in NYC and even here the local news channels no longer show the annual ceremony the way they did the first few years after.  In fact when I saw the newspaper date I was like..."Oh that's right, those planes left from Boston."  I'd forgotten all about it.

I didn't feel bad for Rome when Regina walked away from him.  I was glad she did walk away.  One of the things I hate to see on TV is where a couple decides not to have children, but the wife gives in because she wants her husband to be happy.  Rome just sprang that on Regina without even having a conversation about it and I didn't think it was fair to her.

As for the big dramatic reveals this show has, that can be true in real life.  You never know who was molested as a child, or who lost a friend of family member in 9/11, or anything of the sort, so I don't think it's so strange.  

[possibilities]

Maggie wasn't the only one lifting in what seemed like contradiction to her medical orders. Delilah was also doing so, and then she went into labor. I wonder if they will blame her for the early labor or something. It just seemed like more than a random thing to highlight her lifting and being reminded she's not supposed to, and then the sudden start. Though I do also agree that it's not that early. They said she was due "less than 4 weeks from now" earlier in the episode.

I hadn't thought about how maybe Barbara's husband is abusive to her, not just angry because of some actual issue with Jon himself. That's an interesting possibility. Barbara isn't as angry at Jon, she has been shown wanting to reach out to the family but the husband angrily objects, and she did marry him really fast after Dave died; maybe she did it impulsively and now feels stuck.

The "widow of a friend from college" explanation was so obvious and easy to come up with, that the husband's urgency to get Delilah out of there seemed quite strange to me. And, besides that, why is it SO TERRIBLE for them to tell the kid the whole truth? Its not like the truth paints Dave or PJ's new dad in a bad light.

One thing I do like is that the show has been pretty consistent about how secrets are bad news and don't help solve things. Rome was better off for telling people about his depression. Jon was not. Regina telling the story helped her, and persisting ultimately even helped her relationship with her mom. So far, it's helped Eddie and Katherine. Not being open doomed Hunter. Maggie's story also supports this notion.

I laughed that Sophie is more mature than her mother, in how she views finding more info about Jon.

It really was stunning that they didn't give Katherine anything of Jon's-- not only because of how Katherine helped them save the house, but also because everyone says Katherine and Jon were particularly close.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I really hated that Katherine was left out of the giving of Jon's mementos. We have seen that Jon and Katherine had their own friendship and Katherine deserved to get something of Jon's to remember him. That was really hurtful behavior from Delilah especially (since she set it up) and also the rest of the group. They really are not her friends. If it was awkward for her to be there, she still could have been sent something of Jon's.

I think Delilah should have done something to really thank Katherine for saving her house and financial future as well. Any small acknowledgement or token would be acceptable beyond just saying "thank you" verbally. Send a nice card or a muffin basket for crying out loud.

I liked that Eddie is (maybe?) going to come clean on his own about the baby. That's the only way he and Katherine can make it although it depends on Katherine forgiving him again.

I would have liked it better if they didn't turn Hunter into a Grade A asshole. It would have been better if he and Katherine just weren't compatible or Katherine decided to give her marriage another try even though Hunter was a perfectly nice guy. I guess I've seen too many romantic comedies where the significant other of the object of desire is a jerk. Life isn't usually that black and white.

Edited March 1, 2019 by DoubleUTeeEff
grammer

[LucyEth]

I love the Katherine/Eddie getting back together storyline but not sure if it will happen.  Didn't he tell Katherine he was in love with Delilah, and now he has to tell her that Delilah's baby is his, hard to come back from those two things.  Also, once Katherine knows, not sure how long it will be before the rest of group will need to know including Sophie and Danny who I am sure will not be very happy with Mama D.  I wonder how Delilah will feel when she finds out Eddie is trying to reconcile with Katherine?

35 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

really hated that Katherine was left out of the giving of Jon's mementos. We have seen that Jon and Katherine had their own friendship and Katherine deserved to get something of Jon's to remember him.

Yes, even Maggie got something and she didn't even know Jon.  As demonstrated all season, Eddie got the friends in the break up.

[cardigirl]

I enjoyed the finale, and really the last 4 episodes I thought were well done and much better cut together than the beginning of the series.  I think the direction of the show is becoming clearer, perhaps, to all involved (I'm looking at the showrunner here). 

Unlike many people, I do hope that there is a serious gaze directed at choosing whether or not to have a child next season. Rome has the right to want children of his own, Regina has the right to decide she doesn't want to have children.  How does a couple deal with that? What compromises for love will be made? It's easy to say that Rome doesn't really know right now that he does want his own child to raise, and that he has NO RIGHT to ask that of Regina, but maybe he does have a right to explore thoroughly that option with her, without her shutting him down.  And Regina does have the right to say she DOESN'T want any children of her own, even his, and what does that mean about her love for him and their relationship?  I'd watch that show. P.S. Regina, there is never a perfect time to have baby. Just saying.

I liked the cliffhangers, thought they were fairly well-done. I hope that Eddie is going to be open with Katherine about the baby. That's going to be a tough thing to navigate, for Katherine. A constant reminder of her husband's affair.  Eeesh. However, one little hope I had was that the baby was 'early' so maybe they got the timing wrong about the when of the pregnancy.  I realize that in this day and age, that's really tough to do. Doctors can measure gestational age very accurately, but the show has been playing sort of fast and loose with some of the medical stuff anyway, so maybe they are gonna pull a "it's Jon's baby." 

I thought the 9/11 stuff was very well done. I live in Boston, and lived here during 9/11.  I remember so clearly everyone going about their business that day. It was a beautiful day, and we were all so innocent (in hindsight). Jon had no idea something so terrible was about to happen. No wonder he was haunted. 

I liked the scene in the bar between Jon and Delilah, and could feel a lot of chemistry between those two characters. 

I wonder if Gary and Maggie will have second thoughts, because it was all about rescuing Maggie for Gary, while she was actually falling for him. 

I am looking forward to the second season. Good job show.  You started out kind of rough, but you got me pulling for you.  I'm in (LOL) for season 2. 

Edited March 1, 2019 by cardigirl

[slasherboy]

I know nobody cares, but I'm out.  See ya in a different thread!