S03.E08: Now Am Found

[pasdetrois]

I was underwhelmed by the final episode, for many of the reasons already posted. I'm glad we didn't have another child trafficking scenario. Lord knows lots of respectable people have bought babies. But the implausible gaps were distracting, and I think there were too many red herrings and too many pat resolutions. The ending was a couple of tacked-on ideas (Hayes in the jungle in VietNam).

I also was bored by the Hayes marriage and the endless dialogue; shades of the wretched "By the Sea." Plus, the actress tried too hard for languid sexy.

But the season-saver was our two leads, acting together. That alone was worth the viewing.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I'm sure Mike Ardoin means well and loves his childhood crush but by continuing to hide Julie's true identity from the world, she's basically still in seclusion and totally dependent on him. She probably doesn't even have a driver's license or social security card. The audience may have some semblance of closure in knowing that Julie is alive and well but no justice was ever served.

I don't think this is necessarily true. Lots of people change their names or hide their pasts without being in seclusion. I'm sure Julie leaves the house, goes out in public, and lives a normal life but tells people (like the parents at Lucy's school) an edited version of her past. Women who have had to change their identities to hide from their abusive exes do this too. It doesn't mean you hide in the house and are dependent on someone else for everything. It just means you come up with a new name and a story that you're comfortable telling other people. I would guess that as long as she tells people she grew up somewhere far away, people don't ask a lot of questions.

As for justice, who would she press charges against? Isabella is dead. Mr. Hoyt may have known what happened but if he wasn't the one who was keeping Julie there and drugging her, what could they charge him with? Conspiracy at most? But more importantly, in order for justice to be served, Julie would have to be willing to come forward and tell her story. She's finally happy so why would she want to tell the whole world what happened? Especially since she probably doesn't remember all the details due to being drugged for so many years. If she wasn't 100% solid in her testimony, the defense would rip her credibility to shreds. Just about everyone connected to what happened to her is now dead, so why would she want to risk her peace and lose her privacy in the hopes that a powerful person like Hoyt gets a slap on the wrist? She had a fucked up life so I can imagine her being content with the life she has now - a lovely daughter, a loving husband, a nice house in the suburbs, and the combination of safety and freedom.

It's a lot harder to get fake papers for a social security card, birth certificate, and driver's license now that everything is digital, but I would imagine there are still ways to procure those things. If not, there are lots of people who drive without a license (I remember the first time I met someone who drove without a license and I was like OMG, WHY?! His explanation: "I gotta get to work").

[ganesh]

Really, if she's only driving around town to work or errands, not having a license isn't going to be a big deal. The only thing would be taxes, where you need an SSN. 

[Blakeston]

23 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

He was kind of reluctant to talk about his time in Vietnam with others, but it was always there - a part of him always in the jungle, alone, doing what he did best- tracking people (and like Rust Cohle said in season 1, life is barely long good enough to get good at one thing, so be careful what you get good at). It could also symbolize being lost or alone with his dementia, etc and trying to find his way out. 

That's how I took it. We'd earlier seen him fall under the spell of his dementia, and it brought him to his memories of Vietnam. It's nice that he was able to spend time bonding with his family, but he had demons from his past to deal with eventually.

As for the discussion on whether Hays really forgot where he was at Julie's house - I think he must have forgotten. If he was just looking for an excuse to talk to her, he could have just walked over to her and pretended to be lost. But instead he called his son and asked to be picked up, which must have scared his kids pretty badly.

[Medicine Crow]

6 hours ago, MrsWitter said:

Do you seriously still have a functioning  VCR? If so, that’s both amazing and crazy. I have a DVR, but I still refer to it as “taping” shows constantly when it’s obviously not “taping” anything. I wasn’t sure if you just slipped into some older vernacular like I do.

Vulture does recaps of True Detective. If you can’t stream it or watch it online, I would read their recap or one of the other recaps online. It will give you a more complete picture.

Thank you.  No, I have a DVR that I sometimes call a VCR (don't know why)!!??

[SHD]

14 hours ago, Tighthead said:

I didn’t have a problem with Hayes not reading the book. 

I know a lot of people did, but I was wondering...do we really know that he never read it before? I think all we really know for sure is that dementia-era Hays acts like he hadn't read it in the past. But how would we know if he may have, but no longer remembers? The outcome is the same either way, but it was just something that came to mind. Through no fault of his own, Hays is an unreliable source of facts.

[ghoulina]

47 minutes ago, SHD said:

I know a lot of people did, but I was wondering...do we really know that he never read it before? I think all we really know for sure is that dementia-era Hays acts like he hadn't read it in the past. But how would we know if he may have, but no longer remembers? The outcome is the same either way, but it was just something that came to mind. Through no fault of his own, Hays is an unreliable source of facts.

Agreed. I mentioned before that it's possible Hayes even located Julie before, or came close; but just forgot it all. He may very well have read that book. It is kind of hard to trust what he knows and doesn't know, with the dementia becoming worse and worse. 

[grommit2]

Gads...there was a story here, a good one, but...challenging to follow (or maybe it was my own failing).

Can someone help me with these:
1) Did Wayne's wife die?  Leave him?  
2) Roland offered to stay "closer to town" at Wayne's house several nights each week.  Why?  Was this an offer to help his old buddy?  
3) Is this correct: Young Julie Purcell (from 1980) was kept in the Hoyt's pink room, until Junius helped her escape. She ended up at the nun-sponsored halfway house(?).  Then, in 2015...she was all grown up, married to Mike Ardoin(?) and had her own child, named Lucy (who gave Wayne the glass of water.  Eh?
4) This much is clear: Roland West is the fiercest bar-fighter on either side of the Mississippi.  

[12catcrazy]

@Grommit.  Wayne's wife had died.  Notice that he still wore his wedding ring.  I don't think we were told how or when she died, but at least one person commented on it in the 2015 timeline.   2), Yes, I think Roland offering to stay at the house was the help his friend whose dementia was becoming worse.  3), Yup about Julia Purcell.  She had been kidnapped by the nutso Hoyt Heiress, and Junius eventually helped her to escape.  He was supposed to meet her someplace but she never showed up.  She eventually wound up at the convent and married her childhood sweetheart and they had a little girl, named Lucy, like Julia's mother.   And boy howdy, Roland West kicked some ass!  

[Epeolatrix]

Amelia died peacefully, though suddenly, in her sleep in 2013. Pizzolato said (on Instagram) that a lot of stuff was cut from the finale for time, and this is one of the things that went. He also revealed that Hays and Amelia, after their talk at the bar in the 1990 timeline actually lived happily for almost two decades. "After some private security work, he went on to become Chief of Security at the University, where she had become the writing professor," he wrote.  He added, "They never divorced. They had a happy 23 years after 1990". 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Violet Impulse

[Drogo]

4 minutes ago, Violet Impulse said:

Amelia died peacefully, though suddenly, in her sleep in 2013. Pizzolato said (on Instagram) that a lot of stuff was cut from the finale for time, and this is one of the things that went. He also revealed that Hays and Amelia, after their talk at the bar in the 1990 timeline actually lived happily for almost two decades. "After some private security work, he went on to become Chief of Security at the University, where she had become the writing professor," he wrote.  He added, "They never divorced. They had a happy 23 years after 1990". 

The bolded was shown at the beginning of the finale. 

It looked like every day he walked to her classroom to smile at her and bring her an apple, and they finally found their happiness after that conversation they both needed a drink for.

[sjankis630]

I am also assuming that the nuns helped Julia fake her death - fake grave - in case anyone was still digging around. 

Ganesh, 

Not having a license/Id can be a bit trickier. My late mother let her id expire and we didn't have a current birth certificate. She was in her 80s and all of the old files essentially didn't exist. We spent the last 2 years of her life trying to get that info but could not. And although she didn't drive, having no valid ID meant she had to stay at her current bank, no airline, bus or train travel. We talked to a couple of lawyers and they weren't much help as things had changed after 9/11. She still had her voter registration card so she could vote but everything else was a hassle without one of us kids to help her out. 

Don't let your ids expire folks if you don't have a valid birth certificate or passport handy. 

Also I believe if you get caught driving without a license in VA it is a misdemeanor and a repeat could get you a felony and jail time. 

[grommit2]

wow...lots of answers.  Looks like I passed the test.  Thanks!
One more question:  early episode(s) referred to the "day Steve McQueen" died.  Yes, it was November 7, 1980.  Was this just a technique for fixing the timeline, or was there something else going on here?  

[Tighthead]

I would assume you need some sort of ID when you deliver a child at the hospital, unless they did that off the grid as well. I’m not sure about registering Lucy’s birth as well. 

6 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I also was bored by the Hayes marriage and the endless dialogue; shades of the wretched "By the Sea." Plus, the actress tried too hard for languid sexy.

But the season-saver was our two leads, acting together. That alone was worth the viewing.

YMMV, but the first few episodes I thought she was as sexy as anyone I’ve ever seen on screen. After about 5 episodes they were reminding me of my own exhausting and failed relationships and my feelings had changed. 

That character arc may actually be a credit to the show. Lust is easy, marriage is work.  

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

Thank you.  No, I have a DVR that I sometimes call a VCR (don't know why)!!??

Mine is a Magnavox "Digital Video Disc Recorder With Video Cassette Recorder." But I don't watch HBO shows on the TV that it is hooked up to. 
 

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

2 hours ago, Violet Impulse said:

he went on to become Chief of Security at the University, where she had become the writing professor," he wrote.  He added, "They never divorced. They had a happy 23 years after 1990". 

The bolded was shown at the beginning of the finale. 

I missed that! 
ETA: I don't see it in the online captioning for the episode.
  

2 hours ago, Violet Impulse said:

Amelia died peacefully, though suddenly, in her sleep in 2013. Pizzolato said (on Instagram) that a lot of stuff was cut from the finale for time, and this is one of the things that went.

So, if it wasn't included in the final cut, does that mean other outcomes are possible? I kept thinking breast cancer--which doesn't rule out a peaceful death in her sleep, especially since morphine is prescribed for chemotherapy-induced pain--but "suddenly" implies heart failure, which does fit metaphorically with the story.

Edited February 26, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Penman61]

More rankled that we are now forced to discuss Nic's Unbroadcast Endings.  This is what I meant when I question 1) Whether he's telling the truth, and 2) Why he even discussed this unbroadcast ending material <24 hours after the finale is broadcast.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Penman61

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I missed that! 
ETA: I don't see it in the online captioning for the episode.

It wasn't a caption, it was a short scene of Wayne, his hair beginning to go gray, passing by the classroom where she is reading a poem, her hair also streaked with gray. But it didn't tell you he was chief of security or that she was now teaching at a college.

Although the plotting was a mess, I thought that the underlying theme was that people tend to focus on the stressful times of their lives, just as detective show viewers, like the true-crime documentarian, see conspiracies and evil everywhere. In fact, this was about tragedies piled on top of tragedies, and secrets kept that should have been told. Harris James seems to be the one truly bad person involved and Hoyt and West took care of him, albeit extra-legally. If only Mr. June had not shielded Isabel but had returned Julie, or if Lucy had mentioned the desire of Isabel to adopt Julie to point the police in the right direction. The rest of the deaths, ironically, came about because of the cover-up on one side and the investigation on the other. (I'm not sure how much Hoyt knew at the beginning but he shut things down in order to protect his daughter.)

Sadly, Hays's dementia seemed to filter out the good times and suggest dark possibilities for the gaps his memory left. The last sequence, I think, showed him losing the sunlit scene of his leaving with Amelia to make a life together and instead ending up in the solitary, murderous existence he had in Vietnam. At least his present, when he could remain in it, was not so bad: reunited with his friend, loved by children and grandchildren, just as Julie, too, found contentment.

I have to say I never thought much of Stephen Dorff as an actor--and haven't seen much of his work after his teen-star days--but he deserves an Emmy for this performance. The bar fight and dog-consolation scene were terrific.

[MrWhyt]

36 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

More rankled that we are now forced to discuss Nic's Unbroadcast Endings.  This is what I meant when I question 1) Whether he's telling the truth, and 2) Why he even discussed this unbroadcast ending material <24 hours after the finale is broadcast.

Why would he lie? What motivation is there for telling a lie that would easily be countered by all the other people involved in the production of the show? Why is it such a big deal for him to expand on stuff that was cut for time?

[Penman61]

11 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

Why would he lie? What motivation is there for telling a lie that would easily be countered by all the other people involved in the production of the show? Why is it such a big deal for him to expand on stuff that was cut for time?

Yeah, I shouldn't say "lie" without being more precise; that's wrong. I don't think Nic is lying that other scenes were scripted, shot, and then discarded.  I think he's misleading us when he says they weren't shown was for "time" reasons.  That doesn't add up, for reasons I've already posted.

I do think it's aesthetic ass-covering, a la Lindelof, and I find it as annoying then (with Lost) as now.  Is Pizzolatto's Instagram now TD canon?  If not, why not?  If so, why?  And here we are, discussing it...

ETA:  Not pinning down main character Amelia's cause of death--in a mystery show that trumpeted, via the documentarian, "Isn't is concerning how many people have died connected to this case?"  Well, that's just storytelling malpractice...unless you Instagram it out, then it's all good.  

I need a good stiff drink.  And I don't drink.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Penman61

[MrWhyt]

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Yeah, I shouldn't say "lie" without being more precise; that's wrong. I don't think Nic is lying that other scenes were scripted, shot, and then discarded.  I think he's misleading us when he says they weren't shown was for "time" reasons.  That doesn't add up, for reasons I've already posted.

I do think it's aesthetic ass-covering, a la Lindelof, and I find it as annoying then (with Lost) as now.  Is Pizzolatto's Instagram now TD canon?  If not, why not?  If so, why?  And here we are, discussing it...

and what motivation would he have to "mislead" about the reason these scenes were deleted?

[Drogo]

54 minutes ago, Cardie said:

It wasn't a caption, it was a short scene of Wayne, his hair beginning to go gray, passing by the classroom where she is reading a poem, her hair also streaked with gray. But it didn't tell you he was chief of security or that she was now teaching at a college.

[Razzberry]

Holy crap, nothing escapes Drogo. 😉

[Drogo]

10 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Holy crap, nothing escapes Drogo. 😉

That's what I'm here for, folks: deep screengrab recon. 

[shapeshifter]

1 HOUR AGO, PENMAN61 SAID:

. I don't think Nic is lying that other scenes were scripted, shot, and then discarded. I think he's misleading us when he says they weren't shown was for "time" reasons. That doesn't add up

I tend to assume "cut for time" is just a bit of an oversimplification—that the objective is to cut specific scenes so that what remains will be more cohesive—although I'm not sure that's true with a NP series, but maybe "cut for time" is pretty accurate, or at least is if cutting other scenes "for time" would have somewhat altered the story, but, perhaps, what remained would still have contained equally significant meaning—if slightly different. IDK. I think part of NP's goal is to leave it somewhat open to interpretation.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Yeah, I shouldn't say "lie" without being more precise; that's wrong. I don't think Nic is lying that other scenes were scripted, shot, and then discarded.  I think he's misleading us when he says they weren't shown was for "time" reasons.  That doesn't add up, for reasons I've already posted.

No. We've (collectively) been through this with plenty of TPTBs. Lost being likely the most prominent, but Torchwood was bad too. He can say Amelia ran off with a unicorn centaur for all I care.

It wasn't on the screen. It's not canon. If it's that important then fit it in the show. 

Quite easily they were able to show that Wayne and Amelia were still married and what his job was. 

I do think it's important that if a character *on the screen* says 'there's a lot of death around this case' and there's another character closely entwined with the case, then it's logical for viewers to think something bad might have happened.

We can reasonably argue from the university scene, that maybe Amelia didn't meet an untimely end, given they were older, etc. 

If they felt to need to comment on it after, they could have done better. Or maybe just STFU for a change and let us actually talk about what we saw together and not tell us what we were supposed to see. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by ganesh

[Tighthead]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

No. We've (collectively) been through this with plenty of TPTBs. Lost being likely the most prominent, but Torchwood was bad too. He can say Amelia ran off with a unicorn centaur for all I care.

It wasn't on the screen. It's not canon. If it's that important then fit it in the show. 

Quite easily they were able to show that Wayne and Amelia were still married and what his job was. 

I do think it's important that if a character *on the screen* says 'there's a lot of death around this case' and there's another character closely entwined with the case, then it's logical for viewers to think something bad might have happened.

We can reasonably argue from the university scene, that maybe Amelia didn't meet an untimely end, given they were older, etc. 

If they felt to need to comment on it after, they could have done better. Or maybe just STFU for a change and let us actually talk about what we saw together and not tell us what we were supposed to see. 

Well stated. 

I used to hate Matthew Weiner explaining Mad Men episodes. It always seemed like backfilling. 

Im happy to talk about songs, music, shows, books etc. But I don’t want the artist explaining them. 

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Tighthead said:

Im happy to talk about songs, music, shows, books etc. But I don’t want the artist explaining them. 

Podcasts from the show runners of BSG and BrBa never felt like they were adding anything that wasn't already there.

[Cardie]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

That's what I'm here for, folks: deep screengrab recon. 

I have lousy eyesight and didn't even make out that he had a badge, let alone what it said!

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Cardie said:

8 hours ago, Drogo said:

That's what I'm here for, folks: deep screengrab recon. 

I have lousy eyesight and didn't even make out that he had a badge, let alone what it said!

Lousy eyesight and tiny screen here, so, yeah: Badge? What badge? And I'm sure many viewers watched on phones with tinier screens than my old iPad Mini.

Sometimes I think there's an erroneous assumption on the part of TPTB that everyone has 50+ inch screens, when, in reality, a lot of folks with student debt can't afford apartments big enough for a large TV—even those who are paying for HBO.

And, production honchos should have enough artistic integrity to think about future viewing in syndication on smaller devices.

I still remember watching an episode of Fringe when I was in a hotel on a big screen and seeing for the first time that Walter's boxer shorts had a musical instrument print—which was cute, but didn't give any new information about the character like Wayne's university ID badge did.

And I didn't notice any gray streaks in Amelia's hair either—I thought it was just another instance of us seeing her through old-Wayne's eyes as he was remembering her in her old teaching job.

[Drogo]

There's not much the show runners can do about the tiny devices people may be watching on. Shows are meant to be watched on screens where the scene can be seen, pun intended. I watch on a 55", but on my screen the badge was a good foot and a half across. That's pretty deliberate cinematography.

The opening scene (where these alleged secrets are kept) is beautiful. Maybe one of the most beautiful of the season, IMO:

Shots of the now-desolate Purcell town: the street sign for Shoepick Lane, the No Trespassing sign outside Tom's "suicide" tower, the burnt and condemned elementary school Will and Julie attended where Amelia and Wayne first met, not one person in sight... the scene gently echoing Roland's earlier comments about how the whole town just died.

...Cut to a close-up of Wayne's badge (indicating his new life) as he walks across a beautiful lush college campus, people everywhere, a stark contrast to the place they started their life. He arrives at his destination at Kimple Hall and gazes proudly at his beautiful now-older and grayer but still just as beautiful wife, smiling at her even before she can see him. When she notices him, she is similarly happy.

The entire scene is narrated by Amelia reading poetry she's passionate about (she caresses the pages as she reads as if thes nowhere she'd rather be than reading this book) to her class. Even the poem itself calls to the contrast between the schools/people they were in 1980/1990/present:

This is the school in which they learn

What am I now that I was then?

May memory restore again and again, the smallest color of the smallest day

Time is the school in which we learn

Time is the fire in which we burn.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Sometimes I think there's an erroneous assumption on the part of TPTB that everyone has 50+ inch screens, when, in reality, a lot of folks with student debt can't afford apartments big enough for a large TV—even those who are paying for HBO.

I watch on my phone because HBO Go won't play on my browser. I noticed Wayne's badge but didn't read it and it looked like a different school to me. Wayne had his 90s hair so I figured it was post investigation. I thought it was a community college or something, so I got the gist of the scene. 

[BonnieD]

Quote

It could also symbolize being lost or alone with his dementia, etc and trying to find his way out. 

I actually loved the final shot of him wandering in the jungle. It was such a clear and powerful statement about him navigating the landscape of his fractured mind and/or the general theme of people grappling with life and all its twists and turns. Once I stopped thinking so hard about the mystery aspect of the show, i was able to enjoy it as a mood piece about relationships and a very realistic sometimes dysfunctional marriage. Details like how his wife died don't matter. it's how they created a life together that was important.

[ganesh]

To be fair, how the wife died mattered if the documentary woman says "a lot of people surrounding this case died", and we know in 2015 she is in fact dead. 

I think they tried to address that with the opening scene in this episode to refute that, though not the best execution. I was distracted by the voice over and would have just preferred he showed up between classes to give her the apple and chat.

[ShadowHunter]

Tom was screwed in life and death. 

I am happy to see Julie had a happy ending in the end. Being with the boy who loved her when she was a kid and having a family.  She named her daughter Lucy and that woman did not deserve it. That makes me wonder did Julie know everything? What truth and lies does she believe?

I wish Roland had learned the truth. 

Happy Roland and Wayne returned to being friends. When Wayne quit back in 1980 I felt like I was watching a break up. Poor Roland "What about us"?

The relationship between Wayne and Amelia bored me. 

Great to see Stephen Dorff hopefully this leads to him awards and more meaty roles.

I can see why some are underwhelmed and I did not 100% love the ending but still they solved the case for us the audience. Not the characters though that is annoying. Still this was miles better then last season.

[Free]

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Still this was miles better then last season.

Oh definitely, last season was a mess of subplots that was mostly all over the place.

[formerlyfreedom]

14 hours ago, ganesh said:

Wayne had his 90s hair so I figured it was post investigation. I thought it was a community college or something, so I got the gist of the scene. 

I thought at first that he had his 80s hair, but then I realized there was just a touch of grey at the temple, so I realized this was bridging the time between the 1990 and the 2015 scenes.

[Milburn Stone]

In what timeline was Wayne's grown daughter (oh God, now I can't remember her name) driving him in the car? I assumed that was the present because he seemed to be suffering from his dementia. So obviously they weren't estranged by that point. We never saw anything in any timeline of the show, actually, depicting an estrangement. So I'm not sure if we're meant to believe an estrangement ever occurred. All we know is that she was living in California for a time.

Count me among those who didn't get that he was a security guard at a college where Amelia taught. In that scene, I thought he was still a cop, and that Amelia was still teaching high school. I don't blame this on anybody. The visual information was there for people who saw it. I just didn't see it, or get it. I'm glad I do now, retroactively.

Also count me among those who reject all external information (like Nic's Instagram feed). If it isn't in the show, it isn't in the story.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[ganesh]

In the car Wayne seemed to apologize for 'something' but the daughter indicated that there was nothing wrong.

In hindsight, Wayne seemed more distressed than a normal father getting his daughter off to college. So maybe she grew up and went her own way, and his dementia made him think something went wrong. 

It's kind of sloppy because it seemed clear to everyone that there was some strife there. Or it may be that there was and she's forgiven him. Which is still sloppy because I don't see the relevance of having the plot at all. 

[Drogo]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

In hindsight, Wayne seemed more distressed than a normal father getting his daughter off to college. So maybe she grew up and went her own way, and his dementia made him think something went wrong.  

I agree, I didn't get the impression they'd had a falling out so much as lost touch after Amelia's death. 

Wayne's ability to have a growing relationship to his daughter seemed to be deeply impacted by his involvement in the Purcell case, beginning with his terror at potentially losing Little Becca at Walmart and continuing through to the day Big Becca left the nest to go to college.  I think Wayne lived most days scared that he'd seen Becca for the last time.  Certainly he loved her to the best of his abilities, but memory parallels to Julie P. kept him from really respecting and encouraging her maturation.  This is probably why she left the nest by 2000 miles and never came back, unlike Henry who stayed close to home/Dad (and who probably didn't live under as heavy a hand as Becca had growing up.)  Becca didn't seem too resentful of her dad's overprotectiveness when she left for college; "You'll feel better when you're lifting something heavy" in response to his worrying was a cute nod to how much she knows and loves her father. 

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

In what timeline was Wayne's grown daughter (oh God, now I can't remember her name) driving him in the car? I assumed that was the present because he seemed to be suffering from his dementia. So obviously they weren't estranged by that point. We never saw anything in any timeline of the show, actually, depicting an estrangement. So I'm not sure if we're meant to believe an estrangement ever occurred. All we know is that she was living in California for a time.

Count me among those who didn't get that he was a security guard at a college where Amelia taught. In that scene, I thought he was still a cop, and that Amelia was still teaching high school. I don't blame this on anybody. The visual information was there for people who saw it. I just didn't see it, or get it. I'm glad I do now, retroactively.

Also count me among those who reject all external information (like Nic's Instagram feed). If it isn't in the show, it isn't in the story.

Becca drove him back from Julie's house. The kids probably did not want him driving himself.

[VioletMarx]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:05 AM, Gobi said:

I don't think Hays forgot why he was at Julie's house. I think he realized that telling her who he was and bringing up the past would do no good. At the same time, he wanted to see her, to be sure that was her. So, he used his dementia as an excuse to talk to her without raising suspicions. He knew how much she had suffered, and seeing her happy, gardening with her daughter, caused him to let it be. All the guilty parties were dead, and he had solved the mystery; that was enough.

I was inclined to think this as well, but then why would he have given his son the piece of paper with her address?

[smartymarty]

I too was bored by Wayne and Amelia's relationship problems. But I appreciated their second "do-over" conversation as paralleling Wayne's dementia as well as the missteps in the investigation (it's Woodard; no forget that, it's Tom; no forget that, it's red-headed cop guy). Each time we're told to forget the past and just move forward. That's the only way Wayne and Amelia could stay together.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, VioletMarx said:

I was inclined to think this as well, but then why would he have given his son the piece of paper with her address?

As long as Wayne's Alzheimer's has not entirely wiped out his Wayne-ness, that part of his self will always want to pursue the case--even if that just means reading the rest of Amelia's book. At the moment Wayne gave Henry the paper with Julie's address, he likely only knew that it meant something that he might want to know later.

[Cardie]

9 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

In what timeline was Wayne's grown daughter (oh God, now I can't remember her name) driving him in the car? I assumed that was the present because he seemed to be suffering from his dementia. So obviously they weren't estranged by that point. We never saw anything in any timeline of the show, actually, depicting an estrangement. So I'm not sure if we're meant to believe an estrangement ever occurred. All we know is that she was living in California for a time.

As I said above, Wayne's guilt and lack of closure on the Purcell case seemed to make him fill in the gaps in his memories with the worst possible imaginings. The finale introduced scenes from a hitherto unvisited time, around the turn of the millennium, to let us know that he and Amelia stayed together, got jobs that fulfilled them and that Becca simply grew up and left Arkansas, not that she and her father became estranged. This was the same time period in which Julie got her life together and moved on beyond "Mary July."

[DarkRaichu]

I feel underwhelm by the season finale.  The acting was excellent as always but the mystery basically boiled down to a crazy woman abducting a kid while her rich daddy protected her.  All of the crazy sh#t around the case are either red herrings or ways to bring Wayne's memory back.  I get it that the series is full of symbolism and it also provided a rather unique way to look at the mind of someone with dementia / alzheimer.  The scenery and filmatography are wonderful.  However, this is just not my cup of tea.

The case brought Wayne and Amelia together in 1980 but it also teared them apart in 1990.  Daddy Hoyt forcing Wayne to give up was the best thing that could happen to the husband and wife.

I missed the badge in the beginning but I figured that was some time between 1990 and 2015 when they found what they wanted to do.  Did Becca go the same university where her mom taught? If so, she did not go that far and perhaps why she decided to be farther away to build her life in present time.

The nuns faking Julie's death probably the best thing that could happen to the case.  I wonder if Julie came to the convent shortly after Wayne and Amelia stopped their (separate) investigation.  Amelia did visit that convent and talked to 1 of the girl who used to be in the same group as Mary July.  The gardener and his truck could be seen on the background via her windows. 
Come to think of it, was the nun that old Wayne and Roland met the same girl that Amelia interviewed in 1990?  If so, it would make sense that she would protect her friend that way.
Maybe @Drogo can look into it 🙂

[Drogo]

No deep screengrab recon needed, @DarkRaichu... the runaway Amelia spoke with in 1990 was absolutely the same 2015 nun that delivered the news of Julie's death to Roland/Wayne.  It's a long way from face tattoos to habits, but she found her way just as Julie did.

[Razzberry]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

the runaway Amelia spoke with in 1990 was absolutely the same 2015 nun that delivered the news of Julie's death to Roland/Wayne.  It's a long way from face tattoos to habits, but she found her way just as Julie did.

I missed that as well. 🤦‍♀️

[Jextella]

I *just* discovered the riveting world of Game of Thrones. 

Apples and oranges to a large degree, but True Detective and its finale come off as a childrens' story in comparison!

Bad on me to watch both in the same time frame.
 

[Cotypubby]

There were so many things shown in the college scene that set it between 1990 and 2015 that you can’t blame the creators for missing them. The close up of the badge, the cars were obviously mid-2000s, Hays’ hair was his 80s cut but with grey and his face was wrinkled, Amelia had grey hair... I mean come on.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Cotypubby

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

There were so many things shown in the college scene that set it between 1990 and 2015 that you can’t blame the creators for missing them. The close up of the badge, the cars were obviously mid-2000s, Hays’ hair was his 80s cut but with grey and his face was wrinkled, Amelia had grey hair... I mean come on.

But none of those things were readily apparent on an iPad Mini (8") and it was the first and only time we were shown that time--which we can only guess at.
2000 maybe? 1995? 2010?
Perhaps both Hays worked there from 1991-???
Did we see a closeup of a sign for XYZ college?
Didn't we get "1980" or "1990" or "2015" flashed across the screen for the other times?
Or were they just (at least) mentioned by the characters?

Edited March 3, 2019 by shapeshifter