S02.E06: A Happy Refrain

[The Kings Foot]

minor note that they dont really know what to do with the new security officer's  character  She's clearly  reading of lines that were meant for Alara

other than that , genuinely laughed at Isaac in underwear. 

I also think part of the reason theyre going with this plot is becuase the Doctor is the best dramatic actor/actress they have. 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, eejm said:

“He’s...my father and he will never be a weightlifter.”

So much better than any of the lines we come up with at work when the boss wanders over to our invisible Cone Of Silence. 

[MissLucas]

Apparently I'm in a really cranky mood today because I was more creeped out by this episode than charmed. Well, it happens. 

Random notes:

I really liked all of Dr. Finn's date-outfits.

In the 25th century people still don't know how to pronounce Porsche.

Somebody (and by that I mean Gordon or John) should have said 'Is it still raining? I hadn't noticed' to close off the final scene. C'mon show - you could have given me at least that.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

A lot of Mark Graham's work has been doing the music for Seth's other shows, so I see his appearance as an acknowledgement of Seth's appreciation of that work and wanting to garner some public notice for Graham. 

 

Bortus looks okay with the mustache, but better without it--which is what I imagine a doodling writer noticing.

I kept thinking Bortus  reminded me of Omar Sharif with his moustache.    OMG, that orchestral scene was EPIC!!!!!  This episode may be my favorite Orville episode so far. Nerdrotic  on Youtube has a great followup on this episode. 

[legaleagle53]

Mark Jackson's performance as both normal and "human" Isaac was a masterclass in acting as far as I'm concerned.  I loved his facial expressions in human form, and I could even tell from his body language as normal Isaac that he was trying hard to understand what was happening to him and to Claire after they broke up. I don't think it ever occurred to him that he could evolve as an artificial life form to the point that yes, he really can develop emotions, even if he doesn't recognize them as such yet.  His evolution to this new stage of his existence felt organic, and I'm looking forward to seeing it further develop as he and Claire continue to interact.

[ketose]

47 minutes ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

I kept thinking Bortus  reminded me of Omar Sharif with his moustache.    OMG, that orchestral scene was EPIC!!!!!  This episode may be my favorite Orville episode so far. Nerdrotic  on Youtube has a great followup on this episode. 

Nerdrotic had an especially good time comparing this excellent episode with the much worse episode of a certain scifi show that aired the same night.

[shapeshifter]

Robot companions in the news may have inspired this episode: https://medicalfuturist.com/the-top-12-social-companion-robots

 

Isaac's line, "My internal programs will function more efficiently if you do" (if Claire engages in a committed relationship with Isaac) was a revelation to me in a good but otherwise ordinary episode, as the line could easily describe human responses to relationships.
     [Isaac]:  Dr. Finn. 
                   I apologize for my conduct.
                   Further analysis of human interaction has informed me that a relationship is best served
                   when both parties make a commitment to its longevity.
                   I wish to attempt this.
     [Claire]: Isaac, if a relationship has any chance of working,

                   it has to matter to both people more than anything else in their lives.
     [Isaac]:  My research has verified this fact.
     [Claire]: And why should I just say yes? 
     [Isaac]:  My internal programs will function more efficiently if you do.
     [Claire]: You're saying you're better with me than without me? 
     [Isaac]:  Affirmative, Doctor.

[GaT]

That was a great episode, lots of stuff made me laugh, & the ending was a nice throwback to movies from the "Singing in The Rain" era with the leads kissing in the rain. 

[Toaster Strudel]

I find Claire smug and insufferable, and though this episode had hilarious moments, and some fascinating ones like seeing the Isaac actor without his robot costume, she ruined it for me. She looks well over 50 and Isaac looked 30, so that kiss was really icky. I want Isaac to getback to being an infallible robot ASAP. As for Claire she's perfect for Yaphit. I find her character more sympathetic when she's being mildly annoyed with his forward mannerisms.

[Gummo]

So Seth McFarland is just a big ol' softie, who knew! 

This was an episode that could have gone wrong in so many ways; instead it was one of the best yet.

If Seth had made this plot 15 years ago, the  whole point would have been Isaac as a walking talking sex toy ha ha ha; instead that whole idea was dealt with and dismissed in a simple throwaway line by Claire herself and instead we had a delightful and entertaining look at relationships and even sentience itself -- Isaac may be a robot but as a sentient being he's capable of change ... more change than he himself ever imagined! Life among humans does have that effect on a being.

Bortus with a porn stache -- priceless.  Though the tension is still palpable between him & Klyden, which may be realistic but it sure is uncomfortable. They should have another child, though, or Topa's gonna figure out real fast that he can manipulate his parents by taking either one's part against the other -- in fact, it looks like he may have figured that out already!

And Isaac may still be studying humans, but he's already learned enough to not take dating advice from Gordon! LOL!

Always a treat to see Yaphet -- sorry to say, he looked more alien as Norm McDonald than as a collection of gooey ones and zeroes (oh Norm, please leave your face alone!). 

I thought for sure (and I bet Fox did too) that Orville was going to be a one-season get-it-out-of-his-system Seth McFarland vanity project. Well, it may be a vanity project (he wrote, directed & acted in this one!) but it's become Must See TV in the Gummo household.

[marketdoctor]

I almost forgot:  the whole Bortus plot was a callback to A Million Ways to Die in the West:

 

And I liked how, as an alien might, Yaphit missed that it wasn't just the shape (doesn't seem to have been that at all) that was an issue for Dr. Finn.

[greekmom]

Just saw this episode and LOVED IT!  

From the guys running like kids to tell the bridge, the gals having some girl time chats, the simulator (and Issac turning human and then it being the same guy who plays Issac without the costume and YOUNGER!!), the symphony which was AWESOME than TNG's version of officers getting together and playing some chamber music and the ending of the rain simulator to win Claire back and MORE SEX!!!

McFarlane is hitting it out of the ballpark!!!! A+

Edited February 3, 2019 by greekmom
spelling

[Commando Cody]

Did anyone else notice that the characters spoke the word "Data" a lot in this episode?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Gummo said:

Bortus with a porn stache -- priceless. 

Oh! Right! Having come of age when young men had shoulder length hair and all their facial hair grown out (Late Vietnam War era), I forgot about the label of "Porn Stache" from the 80s.
And I was unfamiliar with this this too, so thanks, @marketdoctor! It totally fits with Isaac's efforts in this episode (even though it didn't work so well for Bortus):
https://youtu.be/oNk6-0rDdto

 

9 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Did anyone else notice that the characters spoke the word "Data" a lot in this episode?

Totally missed that too!

Edited February 2, 2019 by shapeshifter

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, marketdoctor said:

And I liked how, as an alien might, Yaphit missed that it wasn't just the shape (doesn't seem to have been that at all) that was an issue for Dr. Finn.

Nope. It's the fact that when she's not under the influence of alien pheromones, she can't stand him.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

1 hour ago, marketdoctor said:

And I liked how, as an alien might, Yaphit missed that it wasn't just the shape (doesn't seem to have been that at all) that was an issue for Dr. Finn.

Nope. It's the fact that when she's not under the influence of alien pheromones, she can't stand him.

Yeah, but I managed to live 8 years with just the pheromone influences. I suspect the Yaphit-Penny team routers are living with partners with whom they do not have the pheromone connection.
But Isaac seems to be Penny's everything.
Plus, as I kept thinking about Isaac: Awesome! No BO or bad breath or farts! --although maybe the dirty undershirt came with an odor.

[welnoc]

I loved this episode. Isaac is actually my favourite character and I really like Dr. Finn, poor parenting aside.

I really appreciate the fact that the relationship didn't come out of nowhere; this has been building since the beginning. I also appreciate that they didn't have some random human female/male crew member come out of the blue for Isaac's foray into the world of human emotions and then disappearing when it was done.

I'm saddened by the comments people have made about the age differences of the two actors. I actually appreciated that they didn't try to "age up" Mark Jackson and that Claire made no reference to his youthful look. In an episode that was addressing the idea of love beyond the conventional that would have been pretty f#cking stupid. If you love someone, nothing else should matter. Societal constraints be damned.

Everyone on that crew took it seriously. They were taken aback certainly, but they reacted to both Claire and Isaac with a great deal of sensitivity, even with LeMarr's awful advice.

I'm starting to really admire Seth McFarlane. 

[fauntleroy]

Watched this and Ep 3 of Star Trek Disco (?) simultaneously (more input, more!)  Each could use aspects of the other (<- witness formulation of original thought for sure). ST could dispense w the tiresome Klingons who cares - PLOKKGKAGH! (wgaf). And who gives such a hoot about Spock. Tell your own stories. Most of all, lighten the f up. Also literally, turn the lights up! Gloomy. The Tilly actress is wonderful saves the still-too-ponderous show.

Whereas The Orville is The Donna Reed Show in Space. Updated for 25rd cent but uses precious space-story time on crew interpersonal shenanigans. Tx somebody upthread mentioned 3 eps w Claire's kids. Also tip o' the pin to @ottis above re plot threads. You are in a dang exploratory star ship. Go ye outward to the strange new worlds. Come on. Use the crew on adventures not heartwarming yuks. Golly shucks robots can be peoples too! Aww.

'Can a Robot Learn to Love' legit idea, but solid B plot used as A plot.

Bortus mustache solid C plot (eg Data and his cat) used as B plot.

'A' plots presumably hardest, the most work. A perhaps lazy writing team could go light a few times, bumping the supporting stories up, play for a few yuks and a few awws, call it a day. Easy on the special effects/makeup budget, gives your actors more time. Still, could have used a Klingon flyby or something. Alien pod w tray of delicious brownies! Something anything, on the other side of the window. (ETA: well not anything - something with which to interact not merely view.)

In conclusion, neither show hits the mark for me and since the misses are complementary enough my solution is watching them at the same time and merging a pleasing result in the ole noggin. Tilly and Saru would do great on the Orville - two gingers! Yaphit might get a genuine chuckle out of earnest Burnham.

Edited February 2, 2019 by fauntleroy

[ketose]

1 hour ago, welnoc said:

I loved this episode. Isaac is actually my favourite character and I really like Dr. Finn, poor parenting aside.

I really appreciate the fact that the relationship didn't come out of nowhere; this has been building since the beginning. I also appreciate that they didn't have some random human female/male crew member come out of the blue for Isaac's foray into the world of human emotions and then disappearing when it was done.

That was one of the drawbacks's to TNG's "In Theory." Interesting note: the random crew member who dated Data was played by Michelle Scarabelli who was better known under a bunch of makeup in "Alien Nation."

 

1 hour ago, fauntleroy said:

Watched this and Ep 3 of Star Trek Disco (?) simultaneously (more input, more!)  Each could use aspects of the other (<- witness formulation of original thought for sure). ST could dispense w the tiresome Klingons who cares - PLOKKGKAGH! (wgaf). And who gives such a hoot about Spock. Tell your own stories. Most of all, lighten the f up. Also literally, turn the lights up! Gloomy. The Tilly actress is wonderful saves the still-too-ponderous show.

Whereas The Orville is The Donna Reed Show in Space. Updated for 25rd cent but uses precious space-story time on crew interpersonal shenanigans. Tx somebody upthread mentioned 3 eps w Claire's kids. Also tip o' the pin to @ottis above re plot threads. You are in a dang exploratory star ship. Go ye outward to the strange new worlds. Come on. Use the crew on adventures not heartwarming yuks. Golly shucks robots can be peoples too! Aww.

'Can a Robot Learn to Love' legit idea, but solid B plot used as A plot.

Bortus mustache solid C plot (eg Data and his cat) used as B plot.

'A' plots presumably hardest, the most work. A perhaps lazy writing team could go light a few times, bumping the supporting stories up, play for a few yuks and a few awws, call it a day. Easy on the special effects/makeup budget, gives your actors more time. Still, could have used a Klingon flyby or something. Alien pod w tray of delicious brownies! Something anything, on the other side of the window. (ETA: well not anything - something with which to interact not merely view.)

In conclusion, neither show hits the mark for me and since the misses are complementary enough my solution is watching them at the same time and merging a pleasing result in the ole noggin. Tilly and Saru would do great on the Orville - two gingers! Yaphit might get a genuine chuckle out of earnest Burnham.

Orville is a character driven show rather than plot driven. STD is not even plot driven. Mostly, it's a vehicle for the Mary Sue main character. 

[CooperTV]

I must say, after I'd dropped the show last year after the date-rape episode, returning for this specific episode confirmed I had done the right choice the first time. Not only I already saw this TNG episode, I actually liked that TNG episode. Plus, In Theory was just better written in every way and gave us the actual insight into Data as a character (and as an artificial person). I mean, I appreciate Seth McFarlane and co writing TNG fanfic but I wish they at least tried to, IDK, interrogate the text from different perspective, not flattening and dumbing down its original idea (or its message). Data was always fascinating and beloved character precisely because he wanted to relate to humans but was mostly unable to do so due to lack of emotions. He was still capable of maintain close relationships, was valued as a person (!) by his team, experienced various things that helped him learn and grow.

Isaac is just a machine, and everyone treating him (them?) as such (until they're not?), and there's constant jokes about him being like a vacuum cleaner... But now he randomly feels things now because reasons and because of the random rom-com movies' advice...

Not to mention that The Orville, which was a sci-fi show last year, and a rip-off of the classic one, at that, turned into a CW soap overnight.

I'd wish Brannon Braga would come back and write another Isaac and Dr Claire centric episode where they're actually kick us and take names on some alien planet and maybe fall in love at the very end. In that episode there also wouldn't be any boring Moclans, their horrible mustache related squabbles and their terrible dysfunctional marriage. But oh well.

[spottedreptile]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Robot companions in the news may have inspired this episode: https://medicalfuturist.com/the-top-12-social-companion-robots

    [Isaac]:  My internal programs will function more efficiently if you do.
     [Claire]: You're saying you're better with me than without me? 
     [Isaac]:  Affirmative, Doctor.

That's very Daneel. I love it. 

[ketose]

3 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I must say, after I'd dropped the show last year after the date-rape episode, returning for this specific episode confirmed I had done the right choice the first time. Not only I already saw this TNG episode, I actually liked that TNG episode. Plus, In Theory was just better written in every way and gave us the actual insight into Data as a character (and as an artificial person). I mean, I appreciate Seth McFarlane and co writing TNG fanfic but I wish they at least tried to, IDK, interrogate the text from different perspective, not flattening and dumbing down its original idea (or its message). Data was always fascinating and beloved character precisely because he wanted to relate to humans but was mostly unable to do so due to lack of emotions. He was still capable of maintain close relationships, was valued as a person (!) by his team, experienced various things that helped him learn and grow.

Isaac is just a machine, and everyone treating him (them?) as such (until they're not?), and there's constant jokes about him being like a vacuum cleaner... But now he randomly feels things now because reasons and because of the random rom-com movies' advice...

Not to mention that The Orville, which was a sci-fi show last year, and a rip-off of the classic one, at that, turned into a CW soap overnight.

I'd wish Brannon Braga would come back and write another Isaac and Dr Claire centric episode where they're actually kick us and take names on some alien planet and maybe fall in love at the very end. In that episode there also wouldn't be any boring Moclans, their horrible mustache related squabbles and their terrible dysfunctional marriage. But oh well.

Actually, "In Theory" provided no insight into Data as a character. He created a program for dating, then deleted it when Jenna dumped him. Her interest in him had no effect on Data. What this episode did was highlight the affection Data's friends had for him. They (and the audience) were rooting for him. Plus, Jenna was completely one-dimensional, a woman who picks the wrong men.

"A Happy Refrain" mostly gave us insight into Dr. Finn and Isaac. We learn that Finn rebuffed Yaphit because of his personality. We learn about how close she and Isaac got after the shuttle crash and how he has been willing to spend time with the kids. Isaac is an artificial life form, so we get limited insight from him. What we do get is big by comparison. She does have an effect on him and he "misses" her when she's not around. HE learned how to date, but he also learned WHY people date.

[ganesh]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:21 PM, TVSpectator said:

I appreciated that there was an orchestra that toured various ships in the fleet, rather than the weird TNG habit of spontaneous chamber music combos made up of crew members with time on their hands.

Another interesting insight into how the Union works. I really want to know a lot more about how it functions. 

9 hours ago, Gummo said:

I thought for sure (and I bet Fox did too) that Orville was going to be a one-season get-it-out-of-his-system Seth McFarland vanity project. Well, it may be a vanity project (he wrote, directed & acted in this one!) but it's become Must See TV in the Gummo household.

It is a vanity project, but it's clear there's a lot of thought put into the show.

I know we all here have been overall enjoying Isaac interacting with Claire and the kids, but I was surprised they went there with this plot. 

[Dobian]

An utterly charming episode after what I considered to be a bit of a disappointment last week.  It was funny, from Bortus' mustache to Isaac in underwear.  It was clever, with the solution to Claire and Isaac's romantic dilemma.  It featured two of the cast members as their actual selves, which was a treat.  It was witty and stylish like an old romantic comedy on TCM.  The writing and dialogue were all spot-on, and I think this one will be remembered as a standout episode many years into the Orville's run.  And the Orville really is "the weirdest ship in the galaxy."

Edited February 3, 2019 by Dobian

[frogzapper]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:16 PM, ketose said:

I appreciated that there was an orchestra that toured various ships in the fleet, rather than the weird TNG habit of spontaneous chamber music combos made up of crew members with time on their hands.

And I appreciated that they used real musicians in the orchestra instead of shoehorning in actors in key positions doing a bad job of miming playing the instruments! Wouldn't that be a great job? Touring the universe in a traveling orchestra!

[legaleagle53]

30 minutes ago, frogzapper said:

And I appreciated that they used real musicians in the orchestra instead of shoehorning in actors in key positions doing a bad job of miming playing the instruments! Wouldn't that be a great job? Touring the universe in a traveling orchestra!

Just like the USO tours in our own time!

[Emma9]

13 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

(more input, more!)

Thank you for this reference! And how appropriately timed; Short Circuit would make a great date movie for the new couple.

(Oh god, now I'm picturing Isaac cribbing lines though. "Claire...change color. Attractive!")

Edited February 3, 2019 by Emma9

[ganesh]

NO DISASSEMBLE CLAIR

[ketose]

3 hours ago, Emma9 said:

Thank you for this reference! And how appropriately timed; Short Circuit would make a great date movie for the new couple.

(Oh god, now I'm picturing Isaac cribbing lines though. "Claire...change color. Attractive!")

Or walking in on Claire in the bathtub. "Nice software."

[Deskisamess]

Am I the only one who thought Isaac was way too young for the doctor? It was a little skeezy to me. She looks great, but is almost 58 in real life.

 

Overall we liked the episode, but it was very similar to Data dating on TNG. I liked the Magnum PI mustache on Bortus. 

 

Norm McDonald's voice is bad enough, I don't care to see him as well.

[ketose]

52 minutes ago, Deskisamess said:

Am I the only one who thought Isaac was way too young for the doctor? It was a little skeezy to me. She looks great, but is almost 58 in real life.

 

Overall we liked the episode, but it was very similar to Data dating on TNG. I liked the Magnum PI mustache on Bortus. 

 

Norm McDonald's voice is bad enough, I don't care to see him as well.

Mark Jackson is 36 years old. At that age, I don't see a big issue.

[flyingdi]

My only problem with the romance is that Claire clearly wants Isaac to be something he's not.  He is a robot, he will never be a human no matter how much he is taught.  These things will never come naturally to him.  Accept him for who he is and do some adjusting yourself, Clair.

Also, I'm sorry but do Bortus and Clyden even like each other.

Side note to Kelly-I think the problem is that Ed is actually more emotional than you.

[Happywatcher]

If I were mid or high level management  in Hollywood, I would think a lot about why a parody show is much better than the 'serious' and hyped sci fi and superhero shows

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, Deskisamess said:

Am I the only one who thought Isaac was way too young for the doctor? It was a little skeezy to me. She looks great, but is almost 58 in real life.

 

Overall we liked the episode, but it was very similar to Data dating on TNG. I liked the Magnum PI mustache on Bortus. 

 

Norm McDonald's voice is bad enough, I don't care to see him as well.

Easy fix for the visual age gap, just have the simulation give Claire a new face as well so it won’t offend anyone’s sensibilities.  

Isnt Isaac at least a few hundred years older than her anyway after the time he spent on the time warp planet last season?

[Dobian]

Isaac's appearance is a simulation so there's nothing wrong at all making himself look like a young man.  The actor is 36 in RL.  It's also nice to see him as himself.

[shapeshifter]

I assume Isaac's humanoid appearance is based on what he thinks Claire wants--but since he erased the data that would give him that information, I'm not sure what he's basing it on--maybe data on what human women in general find pleasing to look at in a mate? He looked a little androgynous to me. 
Maybe in another episode we will see Isaac looking more like Tom Selleck or John Wayne or whatever the 25th century equivalent is of the middle-aged hot guy. And then maybe Claire will say she prefers the version we saw in this episode because it was the way he first appeared to her.

[TVSpectator]

51 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I assume Isaac's humanoid appearance is based on what he thinks Claire wants--but since he erased the data that would give him that information, I'm not sure what he's basing it on--maybe data on what human women in general find pleasing to look at in a mate? He looked a little androgynous to me. 
Maybe in another episode we will see Isaac looking more like Tom Selleck or John Wayne or whatever the 25th century equivalent is of the middle-aged hot guy. And then maybe Claire will say she prefers the version we saw in this episode because it was the way he first appeared to her.

It's actually what the human actor of Issac looks like, that plays human-Issac. I guess, in universe, that Issac already has a template and just used it instead of creating a new template. Also, I guess anything else wouldn't match the voice very well. They did the same thing with Yput's voice actor and I am surprised that they had Norm MacDonald on the show.  Plus, both were meta reference/easter eggs as well.

Edited February 3, 2019 by TVSpectator

[marinw]

3 hours ago, Deskisamess said:

Am I the only one who thought Isaac was way too young for the doctor? It was a little skeezy to me. She looks great, but is almost 58 in real life.

 

Isaac is centuries old-remember how he spent 700 years on that planet that went through two universes?

The actor who plays him is cute!

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Deskisamess said:

Am I the only one who thought Isaac was way too young for the doctor? It was a little skeezy to me. She looks great, but is almost 58 in real life.

It wasn't just that for me, but as a woman around her age myself I found it unrealistic for her to fall for an unemotional robot or whatever he's called.  I like to think that at this age most of us know better, so it felt a little insulting to be honest.  It felt forced and contrived, especially knowing what Claire's personality is like.

3 hours ago, flyingdi said:

My only problem with the romance is that Claire clearly wants Isaac to be something he's not.  He is a robot, he will never be a human no matter how much he is taught.  These things will never come naturally to him.  Accept him for who he is and do some adjusting yourself, Clair.

Exactly, although I don't think she should ever have to go that far out of her comfort zone to accept his inabilities in areas where she really needs him to be different.  All the fantasy simulations on the not-holodeck won't make up for the intangible stuff.  And him saying he was better with her was so Data-like but like Data, no matter what he does he'd still never meet the emotional needs of a flesh and blood person in an intimate relationship.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Yeah No

[TVSpectator]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It wasn't just that for me, but as a woman around her age myself I found it unrealistic for her to fall for an unemotional robot or whatever he's called.  I like to think that at this age most of us know better, so it felt a little insulting to be honest.  It felt forced and contrived, especially knowing what Claire's personality is like.

Exactly, although I don't think she should ever have to go that far out of her comfort zone to accept his inabilities in areas where she really needs him to be different.  All the fantasy simulations on the not-holodeck won't make up for the intangible stuff.  And him saying he was better with her was so Data-like but like Data, no matter what he does he'd still never meet the emotional needs of a flesh and blood person in an intimate relationship.

 

I agree that Issac isn't right for Dr. Finn but I took it that he was the one who was available for her, helps her, bounded over with her on that planet last season, and is very good with her children. So I guess that emotions aside she sees Issac as the best one to be with right now. Yput always hits on her but he seems to be very immature/impolite while Issac seems to be very mature and polite as well. 

 

Edit:

 

I  put, "his children" instead of "her children". 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TVSpectator

[marinw]

1 hour ago, TVSpectator said:

I agree that Issac isn't right for Dr. Finn but I took it that he was the one who was available for her, helps her, bounded over with her on that planet last season, and is very good with his children.

Although The Orville is more episodic than serialized, I do appreciate the attention to continuity. Another example from this season is the ramifications of Topo’s sex change surgery, and how it contributed to Bortus’s porn addiction

[Rambler]

When Isaac went to the two bozos for advice after Claire dumped him, I had a brief thought that they were going to glue a mustache on his face. I was so so disappointed when that didn't happen. Isaac in his underwear spouting insults totally made up for it though.

Is the actor playing Claire’s son some sort of musical prodigy? I don't know a thing about pianos, but it looked like he was playing the notes for realz.

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I assume Isaac's humanoid appearance is based on what he thinks Claire wants--but 

It's actually what the human actor of Issac looks like, that plays human-Issac.

Yes, of course. I often post from what I learned on these boards is the "Watsonian" or in-universe point of view, rather than from the "Doylist" or out-of-universe POV--and I tend to forget to make it clear when I'm doing it.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:22 AM, Andromeda said:

At first I was like whuuu? With the relationship. But I think I get it. Not only has he saved her family, he's attentive to her children, a calming influence, a great sounding board, never intentionally hurtful, mean, or short-tempered. He'll never feel neglected if she has to work long hours. He listens to her and remembers what she tells him. Hey, he's almost the ideal boyfriend! 

Kind of like what Sarah Connor said in Terminator 2:

Quote

Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.

I really like this episode, and I love the way the show focuses on character development.  This is even though philosophically when it comes to AI I am firmly on the Ron Moore side of things. I don't believe AIs have the capacity to become as emotionally complicated as an insect, let alone a rat or a dog or a human.

17 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Also, I'm sorry but do Bortus and Clyden even like each other.

Now THIS is, I think, the show at its best.  The whole thing with the forced sex-change of their child is a major problem in their marriage (how would it not be), and I love how the show is letting this develop.  I never thought when I saw About a Girl that they would continue to let this story play out.  Bravo.

Edited February 4, 2019 by ratgirlagogo

[benteen]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 5:02 PM, ketose said:

He's like the "Everybody Hurts" of scifi.

I was a big fan of Moore's Battlestar Galactica but have really soured on it for a variety of issues I won't get into now.  One of my issues at the time with his writing on BSG, is that if a person could have 10 bad things happen in their lives, all of the Galactica characters had at least 7 of them happen to them.  Sometimes before the we meet them for the first time on the show.

I also noticed that the word "data" was used a lot and often loudly in this episode.

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Poor Yaphit, maybe he would have done better had he been able to change into a younger Norm MacDonald.

Maybe but Norm's always been a odd-looking guy.  It's gotten more noticeable as he's gotten older and that close-up of him sealed that point (and was hilarious too).

Edited February 4, 2019 by benteen

[Chicago Redshirt]

Overall, I liked the episode but felt like it missed a lot of opportunities to let us get to know more about Isaac and the Kaylons. We learn, for example, Claire's from Baltimore, likes rain, her favorite food and a bunch of other trivia about her.

I don't think that there was much in the way of new information released about Isaac or his world.

Another issue I have is that it seems to me that Isaac's belief in the superiority of artificial intelligence should be a dealbreaker for a woman as sophisticated as Claire. I at least can't imagine a romantic relationship with someone who thinks you're inferior.

[fauntleroy]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Overall, I liked the episode but felt like it missed a lot of opportunities to let us get to know more about Isaac and the Kaylons. We learn, for example, Claire's from Baltimore, likes rain, her favorite food and a bunch of other trivia about her.

I don't think that there was much in the way of new information released about Isaac or his world.

Another issue I have is that it seems to me that Isaac's belief in the superiority of artificial intelligence should be a dealbreaker for a woman as sophisticated as Claire. I at least can't imagine a romantic relationship with someone who thinks you're inferior.

Yes to 1, he and his ilk remain a cypher. Planet of artificial life forms a cool idea, rich area for stories. But work for the writers. Could be they didn't tell us more cause they haven't written out that part of the world yet. Just in Time writing? Sorry my recent one-note on this.

How different could Kaylon (Kaylonia?) be from say, the Borg? It's probably boring right? No recreation. Do they have a sense of aesthetics? Maybe not. Like visiting a gigantic router? 

In four centuries my prediction no warp drive but preservation of human consciousness priority - captured before organic death and transferred to inorganic form. To which is attached increasingly advanced machinery. Upkeep paid for by perpetual trust hoping your children don't steal it. Eventually self-sustaining via solar energy/whatnot. Server farms w solar sails. Organic forms no longer needed, eliminated. Eek I know right? But we will reside on silicon wafers instead of these pathetic weak meatbags that wear out in less than a century. Terrible design - too short-lived!

Warp drive not needed because space exploration is moot because physical location becomes moot.

In other words a lot to potentially unpack. Maybe they will explore some in a future episode.

As to your 2 above agree - am okay with the principal of human/robot love, but Claire seemed too emotionally self-aware shuttle mishap notwithstanding. Also Isaac should have downloaded complete Shakespeare sonnets etc. Do some prep lad! Pretty lazy for a machine guy. As it was, her interest was not convincing to me. Anyway I assume she will have a robo-human hybrid child in a couple episodes and that Moclan kid will be off to college the way he's growing.

Thanks to all who write here by the way, the ideas in here are more entertaining than the show they describe most times.

Edited February 4, 2019 by fauntleroy

[TVSpectator]

On 2/4/2019 at 12:53 AM, shapeshifter said:

Yes, of course. I often post from what I learned on these boards is the "Watsonian" or in-universe point of view, rather than from the "Doylist" or out-of-universe POV--and I tend to forget to make it clear when I'm doing it.

Okay, I thought that you were wondering who was the actor and why would Issac choose that form. It's just to me I am taking it more like an easter egg and nothing in-universe wise and also not over thinking it as well.  They did the same thing Ypilit (sp?) so it seems to be just a little easter egg/joke that doesn't really affect the script. Also, Seth MacFarlane had that one Family Guy joke about Muppets having the wrong voices which probably be another thing if they went with a different actor. 

Overall, I am liking the Orville and I haven't really found an episode that I absolutely hate (I am a person who thought that Season 1 of Iron Fist wasn't that bad) but most of the Orville is so far charming but sometimes some episodes really does lack a strong script and/or are misplaced in the season (like the episode where Bortus give this ship a virus through his pron addiction). Sometimes it really does have strong episodes (like Home, that was a really good character episode that explored a character that at the end made a choice that didn't feel like it came out of nowhere). For me, it's just about how close to TNG can this show get. But most of the time, I have seen shows where the writing is between outright terrible to really amazing. Overall, the strength of this show is its character development and when it focuses on that it can have some really great episodes but other than that I feel like there is something holding back the show. 

On 2/4/2019 at 10:32 AM, benteen said:

I was a big fan of Moore's Battlestar Galactica but have really soured on it for a variety of issues I won't get into now.  One of my issues at the time with his writing on BSG, is that if a person could have 10 bad things happen in their lives, all of the Galactica characters had at least 7 of them happen to them.  Sometimes before the we meet them for the first time on the show.

 

3

Liked the early seasons but once they left New Caprica the show soured on me. Probably has a lot to do with the writing, the bleakness, the consent idea that all of the cast of characters just do terrible things to each other, creative decisions that were just their for shock value (like killing off Starbuck and then bringing her back), and also the fact that they had no idea what to do with pretty much all of the characters as well (For example, I remember Moore talking about how the writers in the writing room and him, really had no idea what to do with Apollo. That was why Lee went from a skinny singled fighter pilot, to a fat married officer, to back to a skinny pilot, to a widower lawyer, back to sort of a combo of a fighter pilot/lawyer, and finally, a self proclaim Luddite by the end of the series). 

Quote

I also noticed that the word "data" was used a lot and often loudly in this episode.

I didn't notice it until you pointed it out but yeah the word, "data" was used a lot. But I don't think they never pronounced it the British way  ;)  but the American way.

 

Quote

 

Maybe but Norm's always been a odd-looking guy.  It's gotten more noticeable as he's gotten older and that close-up of him sealed that point (and was hilarious too).

 

 

 

1

I always thought Norm MacDonald looks kind of weird and I always thought he sounded more like someone from the Midwest US than Canada as well but I thought that was just me. 

On 2/4/2019 at 3:31 AM, ratgirlagogo said:

I really like this episode, and I love the way the show focuses on character development.  This is even though philosophically when it comes to AI I am firmly on the Ron Moore side of things. I don't believe AIs have the capacity to become as emotionally complicated as an insect, let alone a rat or a dog or a human.

Now THIS is, I think, the show at its best.  The whole thing with the forced sex-change of their child is a major problem in their marriage (how would it not be), and I love how the show is letting this develop.  I never thought when I saw About a Girl that they would continue to let this story play out.  Bravo.

 

1

The strongest part of the series is the character development and how they are interacting with each other. 

 

I am also enjoying how things in previous episodes are affecting the plots in this season. It makes me feel like things actually may matter, down the line, but also that it's not a serialized to a point where if you missed an episode you are lost for the rest of the seasons. But overall, I would still call the show episodic but would bring back some old stuff from the previous episode as part of the continuity. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by TVSpectator

[AdorkableWitch]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:16 PM, ketose said:

I appreciated that there was an orchestra that toured various ships in the fleet, rather than the weird TNG habit of spontaneous chamber music combos made up of crew members with time on their hands.

The orchestra is the actual studio orchestra that plays the score for the show. Awesome to let them shine. 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

That orchestra scene should win some kind of award next year.