S03.E12: Songbird Road, Part Two

[MamaBird]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Although, really Rebecca? You couldn't wait an extra 30 minutes to get lunch for something that was clearly a big deal for little Kevin?

That was a display of selfishness that really floored me.  First of all, he wasn't all that far back in the line.  Second, there was a time limit on how long the event would last.  Third, this was important to her son!  Couldn't she have grabbed a snack from home before leaving, if a delayed lunch was so crucial?  I was afraid she'd insist that he go with her, and the event would be over when they got back.  At least that didn't happen.

[deirdra]

I drove by the home I grew up in (and lived in or visited for 49 years) but had no interest in going inside after it was sold and renovated (I did save the realtor's photos of how it last looked before the purchase).  I have all the memories I need in my head and photo album, and seeing what others had done to it could have been a downer.  When my sister & I were cleaning the house out for sale, we visited a neighbour's house where we had done a lot of babysitting, but I hadn't been in it for ~30 years.  Subsequent owners had ripped out the built-in dining room cabinets and replaced them with crap and bumped out the kitchen and redone it with the cheapest cabinets, counters and hideous 1990's kitcheny wallpaper borders. I could not un-see it.

Edited February 14, 2019 by deirdra

[NUguy514]

50 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Nicky is a drunk.  I don't think he is an alcoholic, or not what I envision one to be.  I don't ever recall seeing Nicky passed out, or slurring his words, or even getting the shakes from failing to drink over a period of time when he was living in his trailer.   He just seemed like a guy that was damaged and closed off from the world.  A guy that was so lost himself that he doesn't know how to find his way back.  He only drank heavily when he was in severe emotional pain, like when he found out Jack was dead.

These are clichéd images of an alcoholic.  Alcoholics run the gamut, and many can actually function in their daily lives fairly normally.  Sometimes the addiction becomes all-encompassing; sometimes it doesn't.  It just depends on the individual.  Nicky hasn't struck me as anything other than an alcoholic.

I thought Rebecca's insistence on getting lunch was very weird; it was just really out of character.  Honestly, that seemed like a lazy writer's choice to get her out of there so that she could later learn that Kevin is awesome from someone else.

[sadie]

Why do all tv shows have to make the act of throwing stuff at each other (water, food, glitter) to be simply HILARIOUS mad cap fun. After about five seconds there’s nothing fun about it and then you have to clean up the mess. Ugh. 

The rest of the ep. My hate of Kate is unchanged. Randall really is a hypocrite. Kevin remains the only likeable real character and Rebecca obviously is constantly smelling a fart with her facial expressions. 

[meep.meep]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:21 AM, saber5055 said:

Meanwhile, does that trailer have heat? Sewer? Water? It's just sitting out in the woods somewhere. But I guess heat doesn't matter since it never snows in Pennsylvania or gets cold, either.

I was impressed that they managed to use a real airstream trailer both outside and in.  Usually TV/Movie trailers are one size outside (small and narrow) and a very different size inside (much much wider) because of needing to get the cameras in.  I'm sure the inside was on a sound stage, but it was actually set up like a real airstream.  My father in law lived in one after retiring so I've spent a lot of time in them.

I grew up on Army bases and in quarters it is common to have people stop by who lived there years before.  

[timesywimesy]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:29 AM, icemiser69 said:

I have no interest in Beth's dancing career.  It seems meaningless as compared to what Nicky has been and is going through. 

I am surprised that the Nicky story line ended so quickly.   I am glad it did.  I have no confidence that the writers would have gotten it right.

Thank you! Why are we adding Beth’s mom to the mix when the show hasn’t done DIDDLY in two and a half seasons delving into Miguel and Rebecca and the trajectory of their relationship? I think that’s a storyline that’s long overdue. 

[debraran]

Not a bad interview from producers on last show.  Seems like the box in Nicky's home will come back probably when the show needs a lift. ; )

I like how they are honest about Kevin and his issues and that he was going to fall one way or another. I also like how they acknowledge Randall was a jerk. (well they didn't say that but I read between the lines) 😉

I don't know why the hesitation with Nicky coming back, holding the cards close. I thought it had to do with scripts but then I thought, I bet it's pay and that type of thing. Both producer and Griffin Dunne, both say they'd like to see more of Nicky but are very careful to say how that would be and Dunne said it's up in the air. I also wonder if his popularity was a surprise, that the "big 3" is always a pull and now they have new blood fans want to see more of.  (I think the election did that in part)

Well, I hope they have a good arc with Kevin and Nicky one day. I look forward to that even more than the new baby Pearson and Randall's politics.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/02/12/this-is-us-producers-nicky-rebecca-meeting-kevin-setback/

Edited February 14, 2019 by debraran

[saber5055]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

I was impressed that they managed to use a real airstream trailer both outside and in. 

Sorry, that was no Airstream. Airstreams are bullet shaped and made of riveted aluminum, shiny, no square corners. They've been built the same way since 1936. Here is Nicky's trailer:

Here is a 1960s Airstream, outside and inside (round!):

Nicky's trailer is more like this vintage one below. There are dozens of models like this. None of them look anything close to an Airstream.

I'm thinking the shrubbery around the back of Nicky's trailer hides the back of the trailer being gone so they can easily film inside. Like when Kevin replaces the ceiling tile on the FLAT ceiling!

Edited February 14, 2019 by saber5055

[Maximona]

Wow.  This show is really scraping the can.

Nicky as the new William.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[mojoween]

I feel like I was annoyed for an hour with everyone.

Kevin, ASK if someone wants help.  Don’t direct them to get the help you want them to get.

Young Randall, your father said he wanted to be alone, so why are you going out to sit with him on the porch?  Why are you bothering him when he is in the garage?  Give the man an hour for cod’s sack.

Writers, no one on earth is sitting on a porch in Pittsburgh in shirtsleeves in February in 1992.  Stop it.

If Kate can’t be Singing Adele because she can’t be in the car that long, I highly doubt her doctor is going to sign off on a round trip cross country flight that occurs over a few days time.

If I never hear the words “sequin fight” again it will be too soon.  God, Kate, give it a rest.

Rebecca, if you say you are ok with taking your son to get his baseball card signed, BE OK with it.  Everyone on earth should know that once you are in line for something like that, be it athlete, singer, actor, whatever, you never get out of line and come back.  You die in that line if you have to.

I do feel badly knowing that Kevin never got to find out if the card doubled in value.

I want more of the other family’s story.  Man that father really hates the guy his daughter shacked up with and really digs in that he feels she made poor decisions.

[Katy M]

43 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Young Randall, your father said he wanted to be alone, so why are you going out to sit with him on the porch?  Why are you bothering him when he is in the garage?  Give the man an hour for cod’s sack.

Randall was 11 and he sensed his dad needed cheering up.  It's hard to really fault a kid for that.  I said it in another post.  Jack should have actually left.  after I posted that I realized I think they only have the one car, but he could have gone on a long walk, or asked Miguel to come pick him up.  

45 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Rebecca, if you say you are ok with taking your son to get his baseball card signed, BE OK with it.  Everyone on earth should know that once you are in line for something like that, be it athlete, singer, actor, whatever, you never get out of line and come back.  You die in that line if you have to.

That bugged me, too. That was ridiculous.  But, at least she took my advice to Jack (that of course he didn't hear) and just left on her own to get lunch.

46 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I want more of the other family’s story.  Man that father really hates the guy his daughter shacked up with and really digs in that he feels she made poor decisions.

When the show came back from commercial and that family was fighting, I seriously wondered if my cat changed the channel.  She's done it before.  She steps on the remote.  Sometimes at the most inopportune times.  I looked at the channel number, nope.  Who are these people????  I still think that was  a waste of time. Randall and Kate could have had that conversation literally anywhere else on the way to the airport.

[ams1001]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:32 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

A few years ago, my sister went back to Chicago (we moved to California when we were in elementary school). She drove to our childhood home and took a picture of the outside, but she didn't knock on the door and ask anyone to let her in, despite the fact that she had traveled 2000 miles and hadn't seen our house since she was in third grade.

When we were looking at colleges, we visited one of the state schools that is near where my dad grew up and my grandparents lived up until about 6 years earlier when my grandfather died. We took a detour on the way home to see the house but I don't think it occurred to any of us to actually go knock on the door.

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

It is a similar thing with high school reunions.  If people get something out of going back, great.  For me, my school years sucked.  They were so bad I told the high school reunion committee to put me on their "do not call list".  I am probably the only one on that list.  Haven't heard from them since the first time they tried to sell me on the idea of going to the first one.

I've gone to my college reunions because it was a chance to see my scattered friends, but I had no real desire to go to my HS reunions. The last one they did a few years ago (20 years) was organized on facebook, but it wasn't an invite thing where you can see who's planning to go and all that, just messages from the person doing the organizing. There are a few people I wouldn't mind seeing, but I had no clue if any of them would be there and I didn't want to spend 65 bucks for the off chance that they might, so even though it was at a restaurant that I could walk to from my house, I didn't go.

8 hours ago, MamaBird said:

I was afraid she'd insist that he go with her, and the event would be over when they got back.  At least that didn't happen.

Right? I almost yelled at my TV, No, you don't get out of line! 

8 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

These are clichéd images of an alcoholic.  Alcoholics run the gamut, and many can actually function in their daily lives fairly normally.  Sometimes the addiction becomes all-encompassing; sometimes it doesn't.  It just depends on the individual.  Nicky hasn't struck me as anything other than an alcoholic.

My ex was a very functional alcoholic, I think. I didn't even think of him that way until after we broke up and I had some distance. A former mutual coworker asked me sometime later if he was still an alcoholic and that's when it clicked. He didn't drink at home much, but he went to the bar down the road from his apartment several nights a week, often stayed until it closed, and almost always had to leave his car there and go back for it in the morning (after passing out on the couch for the night). It was like once he was there, he was not able to just have a beer and then go home. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by ams1001

[Blakeston]

It's becoming more and more apparent that Randall will ignore anything that isn't tied to his childhood angst over being given up for adoption (and feeling out of place growing up in a white family).

Since William died, what has Randall actually cared about? 

1. Learning more about William

2. Adopting a child.

3. Proving himself to Chi Chi and her daughter (who knew William!), and 

4. The stupid election. And for all Randall's talk about his constituents during the election, he doesn't seem to want to get to know them. The whole campaign was about Randall proving to himself that he's "black enough" to represent an inner city neighborhood.

And those four things have been his only real interests. He keeps ignoring his family - including Deja. Once the adoption was over, Deja was put on the back burner, along with Randall's other daughters. When Deja went through crises, Randall would just talk to her about his childhood - because that's what his desire to adopt was really about.

And now he's suddenly too concerned about his wife and kids to bother helping Nicky. What a joke.

[Kirkydee]

My 2 cents on the Kevin/John Smiley autograph session- and this should resonate to any Pittsburghers on this board who would be old enough to remember 1992.

During the 9 bucks episode Rebecca knew NOTHING about football.  The Steelers had just won their biggest game in their history and she had no idea a game was even played.  Fast forward to Super bowl XIV and she's at the bar with Jack yelling at Terry Bradshaw through the tv.  So she is clearly a bonafide Steeler fan- probably courtesy of Jack.  So it's not a stretch she is at least familiar with the other two pro franchises in the city who are doing VERY WELL in 92. The Pirates are the 3 time division champs and the Penguins are 2 time Stanley cup winners.  Along with the Steelers who are in the playoffs consistently.  Being married to Jack she SHOULD know how important a autograph session with a Pirate (and Smiley was a darn good pitcher then) for a  young boy.  

As for letting in strangers in for a walk down memory lane, IMO Hell no.  Too many con artists and scammers out there.  The local police are always in the media in my neck of the woods saying 'Don't let ANYONE in your house you dont know" too many people have been robbed either by force or by person #1 distracting and person #2 does the deed.

[auntiemel]

13 hours ago, MamaBird said:

That was a display of selfishness that really floored me.  First of all, he wasn't all that far back in the line.  Second, there was a time limit on how long the event would last.  Third, this was important to her son!  Couldn't she have grabbed a snack from home before leaving, if a delayed lunch was so crucial?  I was afraid she'd insist that he go with her, and the event would be over when they got back.  At least that didn't happen.

Yeah. FYI, Rebecca? If you're wondering why your kids' faces fall every time they find out you're the one taking them to something instead of their dad? THIS IS FUCKING WHY!

[OpalNightstream]

I was slightly confused after the commercial break when we are introduced to the family living in their old house location. I actually had to check I didn’t accidentally change the channel.  

I didn’t think it was that smart to send the young girl to a strangers car to invite them in the house. Maybe I’m just paranoid but approaching a car of strangers is usually a non-no.

[Lunula]

I'm so glad we're seeing some realism here with Nicky not being magically cured, or even wanting to be magically cured, just because he meets his long lost family. I didn't view Randall and Kate's leaving as being selfish, I saw it as a realistic response to 1) having their own (adult) lives to attend to 2) not even knowing this guy was alive, so they never developed real familial feelings for him 3) Nicky's outward attitude of not wanting help and not much caring about them. Seriously, I find Jack's rejection of Nicky somewhat hard to believe - though I like that we are now seeing he wasn't perfect. He was human. He had flawed thinking like the rest of us. All that said, I can't blame Nicky at all for being leery of this new family barging into his life and I also find it completely realistic that Kevin quickly developed feelings for this man given his struggles with addiction. To me, Kevin was hearing a voice in his head saying, "This could've been me." - especially thinking back about the time Tess stowed away in his backseat when he went drunk driving - had he been in an accident where she was killed, I could totally see the "black & white" thinking (like Jack) coming out in Randall and him utterly rejecting Kevin forever.

I think Randall and Kate were concerned - they both dropped everything to go with Kevin to find him - but meeting with a gruff, antisocial, alcoholic who seemingly doesn't want anything to do with them, especially when they have stress and concerns in their own life - sure, I can see them both leaving and I don't fault them for it. Doesn't mean they were going to forget he exists when they go home, but in that moment, they didn't feel the same connection Kevin felt. So I get it.

I also liked that Kate and Randall finally starting to see the truth about their childhoods not being all roses and unicorns. It is scientifically proven that our memories are terribly flawed - we all will swear something happened a certain way and we cleave to those memories, even though we are probably not remembering it the way it truly happened. So in the same moment we see Jack wasn't perfect, Randall and Kate start having the same realizations. I like it - even though I find it unrealistic that being in a strange house that happens to sit on the same plot of land as yours would evoke such memories. 

I lost my older sister in a car accident when I was 12 years old, so I 100% understand that as human beings, we desperately want to remember only the good things about someone we truly loved and not the bad things. I can say with complete honesty that I don't remember one fight I ever had with her, and we shared a room for years...and I was a huge slob, so I know we had fights. To me, she was perfect, beautiful, smart, funny, talented and amazing. I'm 47 and I still feel that way. True? I dunno, but after years of grieving and missing her, feeling angry at what I missed by not having her here, my mind coped by deleting certain things and holding onto others. It's human nature, especially when something like a tragic death happens to children. I still sometimes get sad - but I'm not moping, I'm not wallowing - I just get sad at what could've been. 

So yeah, it resonates with me.  

[Pallas]

On 2/14/2019 at 2:46 PM, NUguy514 said:

I thought Rebecca's insistence on getting lunch was very weird; it was just really out of character.  Honestly, that seemed like a lazy writer's choice to get her out of there so that she could later learn that Kevin is awesome from someone else.

Absolutely. Detaching Rebecca from Kevin, and Kevin's refusing to leave, were deemed essential. But why not have Rebecca urgently need to find a bathroom: something that the audience would understand, but not 12-year-old Kevin?  She could have assured him that she'd speak to someone to make sure that they'd be allowed back in line at the same point they had left. Kevin could have given her one glance to convey that he knows Jack Pearson, and mom?: you're no Jack Pearson...and still staged his sit-down strike. Did the writers think that oblivious, me-first mom was a better look than menstruating mom?

Otherwise the analogy between the two Kevins was nicely done. Young Kevin was also hungry, angry, lonely and tired, having been dumped by his father (with "those people" -- heh!) all day Saturday, then ditched by his father first thing Sunday morning. He had been rightly anxious about John Smiley's being traded away from Pittsburgh, and reacted by trying to help the player, doing solo research on Smiley's future home. (So, maybe the actual first time Kevin had done more homework than Randall.) Young Kevin was deep undercover on a self-assigned mission: a way to deal/not-deal with his distress at seeing a member of his home team banished by the powers-that-be who had built the team, and who he'd trusted. 

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Absolutely. Detaching Rebecca from Kevin, and Kevin's refusing to leave, were deemed essential. But why not have Rebecca urgently need to find a bathroom: something that the audience would understand, but not 12-year-old Kevin?  She could have assured him that she'd speak to someone to make sure that they'd be allowed back in line at the same point they had left. Kevin could have given her one glace to convey that in his eyes, she's no Jack Pearson, and still staged his sit-down strike. Did the writers think that oblivious, me-first mom was a better look than menstruating mom?

This illustrates to me how the writers might up their game a little by having a mother in the writer's room (I don't know, maybe they do) the way they have consulted with a Vietnam vet for that part of the show.  Besides stellar acting, that may be the reason why Nicky's story is pretty realistic and compelling.  On the other hand, maybe it was a deliberate move to make both parents in the same episode look imperfect, distracted, not 100% into what their kids wanted/needed. 

[CrystalBlue]

20 hours ago, mojoween said:

I feel like I was annoyed for an hour with everyone.

Kevin, ASK if someone wants help.  Don’t direct them to get the help you want them to get.

Young Randall, your father said he wanted to be alone, so why are you going out to sit with him on the porch?  Why are you bothering him when he is in the garage?  Give the man an hour for cod’s sack.

Writers, no one on earth is sitting on a porch in Pittsburgh in shirtsleeves in February in 1992.  Stop it.

If Kate can’t be Singing Adele because she can’t be in the car that long, I highly doubt her doctor is going to sign off on a round trip cross country flight that occurs over a few days time.

If I never hear the words “sequin fight” again it will be too soon.  God, Kate, give it a rest.

Rebecca, if you say you are ok with taking your son to get his baseball card signed, BE OK with it.  Everyone on earth should know that once you are in line for something like that, be it athlete, singer, actor, whatever, you never get out of line and come back.  You die in that line if you have to.

I do feel badly knowing that Kevin never got to find out if the card doubled in value.

I want more of the other family’s story.  Man that father really hates the guy his daughter shacked up with and really digs in that he feels she made poor decisions.

This is a Laugh like and also a Like like.  Very good points!

I give Kevin a bit of a pass.  With people who are addicts, asking if they want help is almost always immediately replied with a no.  There's nothing wrong with me.  I like how I am just fine.  Whatever.  Since Kevin is an addict himself, he would know a bit more on how to get through to someone.

With that being said, everything else is either too funny or too true, or both!

[Booklady1017]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:00 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Team Kevin! Team Rebecca! Screw the other members of the Pearson clan who were "too busy" to stick around at least another few hours to take their uncle to the Vet Center but weren't too busy to take a detour to stop at their old house to force their way into a stranger's home. 

But you know what? I'm glad they took off and weren't a part of this helping their uncle stuff. You know why? Because both of them would have ruined the plot. With Randall's inappropriately timed humour (and I'm thrilled Kevin called him out on that at the beginning) and clear lack of concern over their newfound uncle, and Kate complaining about something about her life along with a clear lack of concern over their newfound uncle, they did the right thing in leaving so that Kevin could finally have his moment. 

And good on Rebecca for praising Kevin. It's a rarity, but I'm glad we're getting moments. Kevin and Rebecca's growth in the last season has been wonderful to watch. And yes, Kevin may have started out more selfish but he's now the least selfish out of the Big Three. And hell, even thinking back, Kevin has always been caring toward his siblings and always been there, even as teenagers. 

Also, I'm glad the Nicky stuff ended realistically. He's leaving the door open for his family, and he's willing to try, but he isn't leaving his trailer and isn't suddenly going to be family with Kevin. It's actually very nice. 

And then that ending. Damn, Kevin has relapsed. He was doing so well and look at that, in a second, it changed. Now, his family better damn be there for him when he tells them or when they find out if he keeps drinking.

I was sad to see that Kevin relapsed. I hope though its an one time thing and he takes it as a sign to go to an emergency meeting. I felt the very least they should have offered to go with Kevin and Rebecca with Nicky to the vets hospital instead of visiting the property where their house was. I agree it was good they didn't go because they didn't show enough concern. Kevin made a good point about Randall. I was more disappointed in Kate, because she was supposed to be so close to her father and this is a biological tie to the father she lost. 

I agree they did it realistically with Nicky and that is good. I do hope he comes around, I get his reluctance. He had to struggle on his own for many years and even though Kevin is family, he's a stranger to him. 

I'm glad Rebecca praised Kevin too. 

On 2/12/2019 at 10:04 PM, CleoCaesar said:

So Randall can’t help Nicky because he has to get home. Why? “My wife is unemployed and all over the place.” What? How can anyone NOT want to just smack him in his stupid face? Beth is in no way the problem here, and not spiraling like someone driven insane by unemployment. He is such a sanctimonious ass with so little actual respect for his wife. I hope a divorce there happens at some point.

Kevin really shouldn’t have apologized to him for commenting that usually Randall is first to save everyone, with the exception of Nicky. It’s true.

Kevin was right on the money there about Randall and I always felt Kate was the most selfish of the three.

[CrystalBlue]

15 hours ago, Blakeston said:

It's becoming more and more apparent that Randall will ignore anything that isn't tied to his childhood angst over being given up for adoption (and feeling out of place growing up in a white family).

Since William died, what has Randall actually cared about? 

1. Learning more about William

2. Adopting a child.

3. Proving himself to Chi Chi and her daughter (who knew William!), and 

4. The stupid election. And for all Randall's talk about his constituents during the election, he doesn't seem to want to get to know them. The whole campaign was about Randall proving to himself that he's "black enough" to represent an inner city neighborhood.

And those four things have been his only real interests. He keeps ignoring his family - including Deja. Once the adoption was over, Deja was put on the back burner, along with Randall's other daughters. When Deja went through crises, Randall would just talk to her about his childhood - because that's what his desire to adopt was really about.

And now he's suddenly too concerned about his wife and kids to bother helping Nicky. What a joke.

This is so spot on and insightful.  Randall has zero interest in helping Nicky which begs the question, why go with Kevin in the first place?  (Kate could have stayed home too, but that's another story...being high riskily pregnant and all.)

[CrystalBlue]

12 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Yeah. FYI, Rebecca? If you're wondering why your kids' faces fall every time they find out you're the one taking them to something instead of their dad? THIS IS FUCKING WHY!

It cracked me up when Young Kevin sat down and refused to leave.  I usually hate temper tantrums or disobedience from children, but in this case he was perfectly entitled to not do as he was told!  😄

[Booklady1017]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:06 PM, debraran said:

Maybe Kevin drinking again will somehow cross paths with Nicky and they'll help each other.  I thought Nicky was real, the reactions of others wanting the storybook ending so quickly, not so much.

I tried to help an alcoholic once and he got angry that he didn't need a Florence Nightingale, he didn't need nagging, he just needed some support and he had to do it himself. Nicky needs to know the floor is solid, but the wanting to have some connection, does have to come from him. I hope the writers do it with Kevin.

The rest to me was filler, the house really wasn't theirs and we knew Beth needed the segue to next week and her Mom. I look forward to that.  Randall was rude but I'm also glad he didn't stay or Kate. Just too much.

I hope that Nicky sees this as a true attempt to reach out and help him. I can understand his reluctance and it would be great if they could help each other . 

The part with the house was filler, agreed.

I'm looking forward to Beth's story and Phyllicia Rashad as her mom.

[ShadowFacts]

57 minutes ago, Booklady1017 said:

I hope that Nicky sees this as a true attempt to reach out and help him. I can understand his reluctance and it would be great if they could help each other . 

I think he did, by the final scene together he had taken Rebecca's words to heart it seemed, and told Kevin he didn't have to worry about the roof anymore, and that he would go to a meeting.  They left it at maybe they'll see each other again, and I hope they do, for both of them.  It would be kind of a waste of the whole Vietnam series of episodes if they just let it drop now, or at least in my view there's more there they could tie in with Kevin.

2 hours ago, Booklady1017 said:

I was sad to see that Kevin relapsed. I hope though its an one time thing and he takes it as a sign to go to an emergency meeting. I felt the very least they should have offered to go with Kevin and Rebecca with Nicky to the vets hospital instead of visiting the property where their house was. I agree it was good they didn't go because they didn't show enough concern. Kevin made a good point about Randall. I was more disappointed in Kate, because she was supposed to be so close to her father and this is a biological tie to the father she lost. 

That's a good point that I hadn't thought about.  Her big takeaway from the road trip was she wants a house with a yard and a projector screen.

[lucindabelle]

I think going into the house (and that totally confusing first scene... it was like when we had the scene with the couple and the crock pot, for a second you're like, wait, what is this? did I forget about characters? I thought maybe this was Miguel's family in the past...)... was just a contrivance so writers could avoid the dreaded "two people sitting at a restaurant talking."

This way, we got to see flashbacks of Jack lifting weights, washing dishes, sitting on an inappropriately spring day in Pittsburgh in February (KNOCK IT OFF WRITERS AND CREW. DON'T ANY OF YOU HAIL FROM BACK EAST.)  And I agree, as someone who lived in Da Burgh for most of the 90s, that a detour to Pittsburgh from Bradford ain't on the way back to New Jersey (where I live). It is about 400 miles to NJ, and one little half hour-45 minute stop makes it a six or seven hour drive AT LEAST. What time was her flight, midnight?

(no. Because the red-eye goes the OTHER way. Lived in California, too.)

I'm all for "it's fiction," but come on, writers, don't insult us. Some of your viewers LIVE in Pittsburgh, Bradford, New Jersey, California.

As for going in the house: I would go by instinct based on who showed up at the door. I'd probably be inclined to let the pregnant lady and her diffident brother in. But I always trust my spidey sense, after reading "Blink." Basically, Malcolm Gladwell argues quite effectively to ALWAYS trust your gut (and I don't mean like Cindy McCain "it's trafficking" gut, but as it applies to you). Because you are picking up many clues you just haven't put into words yet. Our animal instincts are strong and true. We've all read about women who let a stranger into their apartment building to carry up groceries "to be nice" but feel uneasy-- 

I remember once at work trying to figure out how I knew a room away whether my then boss, who could be a raging bully, was in. Eventually I figured it out: when he was in his door was open and there was a shadow on the floor. But long before I could explain that, I knew when he was in and out. I wasn't psychic, I just registered things I hadn't put into words or fully understood.

Long way of saying, Randall and Kate are obviously harmless. 

If my grandparents' house still existed (it's been torn down) I would absolutely take my mom there to see if they'd let us in. 

I teach playwriting and i tell my students to avoid that "sitting at restaurant" scene whenever they can. But this didn't make sense.

I did like the different memories though. I have two brothers and we definitely remember things (that haven't been retold and retold) differently.

Rebecca going to the bathroom would have made WAY more sense than her going to take lunch, and depending on the location of the bathroom and whether there was a line could have easily taken 20-25 minutes. Just bad writing making her suddenly so hungry.

[Bringonthedrama]

9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

This is so spot on and insightful.  Randall has zero interest in helping Nicky which begs the question, why go with Kevin in the first place? 

In his conversation with Beth before the Big 3 left, he thought Nicky was most likely dead by now. So Kevin would need support upon being disappointed/sad that Nicky didn't answer the door, as William did when Randall came knocking. Basically, Randall felt obligated to be a dutiful brother. He didn't care about possibly re-connecting with Uncle Nicky (most likely because Uncle Nicky had no connection to either of Randall's birth parents). 

[Pallas]

6 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

He didn't care about possibly re-connecting with Uncle Nicky (most likely because Uncle Nicky had no connection to either of Randall's birth parents). 

And also, as Randall pointed out, because Uncle Nicky was the second major family member whose existence or whereabouts had been kept from Randall by one of his parents. (Kyle makes three: had ten-year-old Randall not heard rumors from the neighbors, we don't know when Rebecca would have mentioned him to the Big 3.) Having worked through (some of) his feelings around this, Randall wasn't as vulnerable as Kevin was to want to make it right on his own, retroactively.

Note: Kate's return flight originated in Pittsburgh, not Newark or NYC. Randall mentions this on their way to the airport when he suggests the stop in Bethel Park. I wonder if something in Sterling's delivery of that line of exposition strikes the ear as false and self-justifying, and many of us automatically tuned out the words. 

[Blakeston]

18 hours ago, Booklady1017 said:

I was more disappointed in Kate, because she was supposed to be so close to her father and this is a biological tie to the father she lost. 

I honestly see this as a flaw in the writing. No way would Kate not be completely entranced by meeting Jack's brother.

[Cementhead]

9 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I honestly see this as a flaw in the writing. No way would Kate not be completely entranced by meeting Jack's brother.

I agree.  I also feel that Rebecca would have been much more warm and welcoming to Nicky, as well.  Her reaction to him was so out of character.  As was her leaving Kevin by himself in the line to get his baseball card signed so that she could "go eat lunch."  I understand that the writers needed to get her out of the way so that she could then have that conversation with baseball player afterwards to drive the narrative of young Kevin to present day Kevin but that was bad.

Also bad was the whole ridiculousness of Kate & Randall "going home" to the home that wasn't even actually their home.  Again, the writers needed to get the characters from point A to point B for the whole Sequin Fight flashback to show the differing perspectives of their memories, but that was really bad writing, too.

[Bringonthedrama]

3 hours ago, Cementhead said:

I agree.  I also feel that Rebecca would have been much more warm and welcoming to Nicky, as well.  Her reaction to him was so out of character. 

Kevin/The Big 3 told Rebecca over the phone about what happened in Vietnam which caused Nicky and Jack to be estranged.  I wonder if she just expected Nicky to be warm and embrace her as family when she said his eyes are like Jack's, since she and the kids don't express the grudge/hostility toward him that Jack did. I think she expected a Jack-like "Oh, you're so beautiful, you have great kids, it's wonderful to meet you" type-greeting, since she's not used to being around a traumatized, withdrawn war vet. It's that Pearson entitlement. She was clearly offended when Nicky didn't embrace her "sage" perspective on Kevin, especially the "hero-for-a-day" remark.  It never occurred to her to consider things from Nicky's perspective - that talking about the worst time of his life with his adult niece and nephews, whom he'd never been invited to meet, would be painful to the point of him considering suicide (the gun on the table). Being around Jack's adult son is a reminder to Nicky that he lost decades of brotherhood with Jack. (Rebecca and Jack met at some point after Jack returned from Vietnam, they didn't have children immediately when they got married, and the Big 3 were about 17? when Jack died). 

ETA: I wasn't surprised at Kate's lack of enthusiasm in wanting to meet/get to know/help Uncle Nicky. She acknowledged that Dad lied to them. That means Jack was flawed; Kate doesn't want to remember him as other than perfect. Then she finds out why Dad and Uncle Nicky were estranged, and Nicky doesn't praise Jack nor does he praise the Big 3 for coming to meet him. Then Kevin tells her and Randall he can't abandon Nicky like Dad did.  This conflicts with Kate's Daddy-worshiping perspective and doesn't help her in any way regarding her own self-image and future, so she wants to go home.  Later, Randall brings up a memory of her perfect Dad yelling at her and throwing a plate, and she insists she doesn't remember that - only their fun fight. Her reaction is to try to block all that negativity out by going home and telling her husband about the kind of life she wants for their son.  

Edited February 16, 2019 by Bringonthedrama

[maddie965]

Two things that bothered me in this episode:

- the fact that Jack told everyone Nick was dead makes no sense at all, and yet no one talks about that in the whole episode. No ones asks: why did he do this? Are we to assume that Jack wanted his brother to be dead (like Nick said), and that's why he lied? Because that's absolutely awful.

- what Jack did to Nick was horrible and, in my opinion, unforgivable: he erased his brother out of existence. So, if I ever met Nick, the first thing I was going to say is "I'm sorry for what Jack did to you. That was wrong. You shouldn't have gone through this. No one should." And yes, Rebecca should have told him he is a person. Hugging him would also be an accetable reaction. What's wrong with those people?

Glad Kevin is getting a decent arc. If it involves he and Nick doing some healing together, I'm all for it.

Edited February 17, 2019 by maddie965

[Katy M]

23 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I honestly see this as a flaw in the writing. No way would Kate not be completely entranced by meeting Jack's brother.

I said it before, but I wouldn't care about meeting one of my parents' long-lost siblings if they had any. They're nothing to me.  

[Katy M]

27 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

- the fact that Jack told everyone Nick was dead makes no sense at all, and yet no one talks about that in the whole episode. No ones asks: why did he do this? Are we to assume that Jack wanted his brother to be dead (like Nick said), and that's why he lied? Because that's absolutely awful.

Nicky was dead to him.  He told him not to call, not to write, never to bother him again.  If he had told the kids that he was still alive, then he would have had to explain why he never wanted to see him again, which would have been way more of a pain in the butt than "He died in Vietnam."  And, the Nicky Jack knew did die in Vietnam.

[maddie965]

That's so incredibly selfish. If Nick was dead to him, he could just refuse to see him.Telling the whole world he's dead is extremely cruel.  All of this so he wouldn't have to explain the situation to his kids? And his wife? How weak was Jack, really? That's character assassination, if you ask me.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, maddie965 said:

- the fact that Jack told everyone Nick was dead makes no sense at all, and yet no one talks about that in the whole episode. No ones asks: why did he do this? Are we to assume that Jack wanted his brother to be dead (like Nick said), and that's why he lied? Because that's absolutely awful.

I thought when Rebecca told Nicky we have to talk, that's what she would want to talk about.  But no.  She did say she thought in his sobriety he might have found a way to reconnect, so there was that, but it was weak sauce.  And we know from the episode that Jack was very bothered by seeing his brother the previous day, and went on to become (or was already) an alcoholic, so his deciding to lie about his brother being dead took a huge toll.  The whole thing would have been more satisfying to me if there was some more exploration.  This is the only Pearson relative on either side we've seen in present day, and I'm glad that suicide was averted, but going on a road trip with a bunch of snacks and wisecracks, fixing a ceiling tile and visiting a VA facility Nicky had no interest in -- there should have been more.  If Rebecca thought Jack would have had a change of heart after going into recovery, she should have acted accordingly.  The guy is not disposable. 

[debraran]

I agree, you don't "kill" your brother for your convenience. It was a dumb plot and I think even Milo agreed it wasn't "Jack" the way he was portrayed to him all this time. His dad wasn't in their lives, hopefully his never mentioned mother was, but they weren't dead. You don't erase someone like that. My husband doesn't see 2 of his 4 siblings but kids always knew they existed. Certain things sufficed until they were older, "they don't live near us, I don't get along with them, etc" It wasn't a big deal.

What if Nicky got clean and married and had kids, would they never know that either? Jack never spoke to him since he was carried away catatonic. I assume Nicky sent card to the house because he thought he wasn't getting his other ones (maybe he wrote return to sender and they might be in his box) To carry that feeling so many years seems odd to me and I hope if they can work out the contract with Gunne, he comes back to add some family to the friendless group on occasion.

If Nicky was a pedophile, or murdered someone, was on FBI most wanted list, fine, but he made a dumb mistake and if Jack thought about it, endangered himself too. Maybe if Jack took some responsibility for putting them together and not just trying to get him a psych eval, he might have given him a chance. He knew the war would break him, but I give Nicky credit for turning down Canada. I assume he wanted to stay near his family and it wasn't a "duty" thing.  Maybe he'll talk about that another time.

I also want to know what his parents were told, that's a big hole in the story also.

[SnarkySheep]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:00 PM, Armchair Critic said:

Also, you just met your Uncle and you think you can move him into a vets home?

This. Nicky has, at the current time, been living the way he has for approximately 50 years. Kevin's good intentions are not going to change him overnight. 

Also, Nicky's issues are alcoholism and PTSD, not stupidity. Presumably he would have info from the VA about resources available to vets, and if he were so inclined, he'd have gone toward them himself well before Saint Kevin swooped in to save him.

[SnarkySheep]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:40 AM, Jillybean said:

So how about perpetually unemployed Kate telling Toby she wants to buy a house with a yard? In LA. I'm sure they will snap their fingers and be in a lovely home in no time.

Adele-O-Grams must be in real demand...

[deirdra]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

If Nicky was a pedophile, or murdered someone, was on FBI most wanted list, fine, but he made a dumb mistake and if Jack thought about it, endangered himself too. 

Jack seemed to assume Nicky murdered the Vietnamese boy on purpose and didn't even let Nicky explain that it was an accident (they were just "fishing" with grenades) the one time he visited. Only Kevin stuck around long enough to hear the whole story.

Edited February 17, 2019 by deirdra

[Pallas]

20 minutes ago, deirdra said:

Only Kevin stuck around long enough to hear the whole story.

All three siblings heard Nicky tell the whole story, after Kate refused his request that they leave. 

[debraran]

37 minutes ago, deirdra said:

Jack seemed to assume Nicky murdered the Vietnamese boy on purpose and didn't even let Nicky explain that it was an accident (they were just "fishing" with grenades) the one time he visited. Only Kevin stuck around long enough to hear the whole story.

Yes, that just seemed odd, especially with so many people around after the explosion.The other soldiers seemed to know it probably was a mistake. I remember some trying to be kind to Jack about Nicky being okay and getting help. No one in a war exists in a bubble, no one saw them, no one heard the rumble even under water, no one noticed the boy was gone? What happened was awful, I bet he heard the mother's cries in his dreams and thoughts but to give up his life, it's a double shame.

  Doesn't really matter but they had to tell his parents he was catatonic in a med hospital. Quite a few holes on what happened next but they don't have to fill them all, but the glaring ones would be nice.

[Bklyndeb]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:56 PM, Catgyrl said:

ME TOO!! I went back to my guide and pressed the right channel and it went right back to the show.

Me as well.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, SnarkySheep said:

This. Nicky has, at the current time, been living the way he has for approximately 50 years. Kevin's good intentions are not going to change him overnight. 

Also, Nicky's issues are alcoholism and PTSD, not stupidity. Presumably he would have info from the VA about resources available to vets, and if he were so inclined, he'd have gone toward them himself well before Saint Kevin swooped in to save him.

For sure, nothing's going to change him overnight.  Nicky actually said in response to Kevin talking about the VA that he's tried counseling, didn't work.  The difference now could potentially be that all that time he was totally alone, no family support.  Having a connection with someone who cares besides paid professionals could make some kind of inroads to him being open to try again.  Maybe I'm just reading into it what I want to, but I saw a kind of push-pull going on with Nicky; he didn't like these people barging in and acting like they knew what was good for him, and yet he didn't outright slam the door.  There was real emotion there when he told Rebecca "you were all he ever wanted."  He wanted to be wanted, and things might have been so different if Jack hadn't shut the door on him completely.  Heartbreaking. 

[ErinV]

On 2/13/2019 at 12:47 AM, Brinny said:

Oh, Kevin. 

The character arc for Kevin has been really well done. Like, Randall has always been my favourite Pearson and, while I have appreciated Justin Hartley and his abs since Passions, I haven't always been on board with the writing/storylines for Kevin. But this? So good. Hartley is really acting the hell out of it. 

(I will admit that my growing soft spot for Kevin may have something to do with baby Kev in the flashbacks. The Big Three are a year or so older than my older brother, and whenever the youngest actor who plays Kevin breaks out his sad face, it just reminds me SO MUCH of my brother when we ourselves were youngins in the 80s and 90s.)

Oh my gosh, young Kevin just breaks my heart.  

[Tosia]

On 2/13/2019 at 9:21 AM, izabella said:

I really didn't understand her attitude with Nicky.  Why did she seem so pissed off and cold?  Nicky doesn't owe them anything.  It's not Nicky's fault that Jack lied to her the whole time about Nicky.

Totally agree with you.  

God, Rebecca is so sour in her dotage (Ha! I'm  almost 65 so I can say that). 

I would have welcomed Nick and told him about the family/Jack post Nam. AND ASKED MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT JACK AS A CHILD. 

I know she asked a little bit, after getting all pissy with Nick earlier, but I think Rebecca cd have  let Nick know that she knew some info about their abusive dad, but the mood was ruined for some/any more memories about the closeness between brothers when they were little.  Aside from tongue and groove.

Rebecca screwed up. Sourpuss. Is she ever happy? 

I like that Nick went back to his decrepit trailer, cox that was real. Some veterans feel a need for isolation due to PTSD or other issues, and self medication is a common reaction to mental problems (among the general population as well,  yes?)

I drive by my 2 old houses when I visit relatives in my home town almost every time I go--abt once a year now, but it's not a priority and, I'd never ask to go inside.  Well, maybe if my early childhood home hadn't been bulldozed by the state for a new interstate highway, when I was 5 years old, but that's not an option. Plus what's the point, if it's a new house?  Ridiculous trope for a flashback.   I guess it opens the door for Kate to see Jack more realistically,  (let's hope. ) 

Glad Zoe wasn't in this ep. Love the Schuyler sisters.

Love Beth and want her to be happy. How can Randall not see her sadness? 

[Tosia]

18 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, you don't "kill" your brother for your convenience. It was a dumb plot and I think even Milo agreed it wasn't "Jack" the way he was portrayed to him all this time. His dad wasn't in their lives, hopefully his never mentioned mother was, but they weren't dead. You don't erase someone like that. My husband doesn't see 2 of his 4 siblings but kids always knew they existed. Certain things sufficed until they were older, "they don't live near us, I don't get along with them, etc" It wasn't a big deal.

What if Nicky got clean and married and had kids, would they never know that either? Jack never spoke to him since he was carried away catatonic. I assume Nicky sent card to the house because he thought he wasn't getting his other ones (maybe he wrote return to sender and they might be in his box) To carry that feeling so many years seems odd to me and I hope if they can work out the contract with Gunne, he comes back to add some family to the friendless group on occasion.

If Nicky was a pedophile, or murdered someone, was on FBI most wanted list, fine, but he made a dumb mistake and if Jack thought about it, endangered himself too. Maybe if Jack took some responsibility for putting them together and not just trying to get him a psych eval, he might have given him a chance. He knew the war would break him, but I give Nicky credit for turning down Canada. I assume he wanted to stay near his family and it wasn't a "duty" thing.  Maybe he'll talk about that another time.

I also want to know what his parents were told, that's a big hole in the story also.

My nephew murdered someone and is awaiting trial. I will still write to him in prison.  I do not live near my sister,  his mom,  but I talk to her frequently, and pray for them both, and the victim,  and her family.  

The people who commit crimes are not the people we know personally.. 

That said, IDK what I I'd think about a relative being a pedophile...there are lines in the sand.  I wd def report him. 

[Julia67]

I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I am from eastern PA, and I know enough to know that Jack wouldn't be sitting outside on the porch, surrounded by green grass, flowering bushes, and chirping birds in February in Pittsburgh!  Nor would he be lifting weights in an unheated, uninsulated garage in Pittsburgh, in February.  Come on....

[ErinV]

On 2/14/2019 at 1:51 PM, icemiser69 said:

I just assumed Kevin and his dad watched baseball together.  It would be another form of bonding between Jack and his son by going together to get a card signed.

Agreed - because it was baseball-related, he preferred that his dad be there.  My son is the same way (eyeroll).

[JudyObscure]

Still wondering about Rebecca seeming angry when she first arrived.  Maybe it was unintentional and she was only supposed to seem concerned. I think there might be a flaw in Mandy Moore's technique that's causing her to hold her mouth in a slightly pursed position to make it look "old."  and it's only making her look stiff and grouchy. It's easy enough to make lips look thinner (older) by lining them just inside the lip line and with a darkish pencil, there's no need to hold them in such a stiff manner or to look so dull and washed out.  I know lots of women in their 70's who wear the right amount of  make up and manage to look cheerful and pretty. Not a one of them wears her hair like Rebecca's, either, because those straight lines down the sides of the face just aren't becoming to drooping skin. 

The show's writers have always seemed over awed by Mandy Moore's beauty, never missing a chance for a character to say something about it, (Jack shows Nick a small snapshot of the whole family and Nick says, "Your wife is beautiful," and I roll my eyes.)  So I think they may be trying too hard to tone it down for her old version, as though a touch of lipstick would make her totally unconvincing.