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Lisin

The Not So Merry...Supporting Cast

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I hope so, because if he doesn't it's going to be a huge waste of a great character (and Manu Bennett, obviously).

I was hoping that they'd use Blood as the season bad and Slade as the series bad (given how much he was tied to Oliver and the Island), but Blood's almost disappeared and they seem to be ramping up towards a big confrontation with Slade in the finale. Disappointing.

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Love the topic title!

Maybe Slade can have his plan defeated in the finale and escape, setting him up for a great ambush return a couple seasons down the line. I find those comebacks to be great inspirers of "OHSH*T" moments when used properly.  I also wouldn't put it past him to have a backup plan or two.

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Slade better survive.  Manu Bennett just brings it every episode.  He's just commands the screen in a way that makes me believe that some crazy, big shit is going to go down, whenever Slade crashes the party.

My only complaint is that I wish they found another way to pit Slade against Ollie, besides Shado's death.  A bit too cliched for my tastes.  But that doesn't hinder how much of a badass Slade/Manu is.

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Ok, so am I the only one kinda hoping that Shado actually IS a real ghost out for vengeance and not just an Oliver/Slade hallucination?

I know, I know, this is supposed to be a grounded realistic superhero show, but since we've already had people gaining superpowers from Evil Serum and one person getting struck by lightning under Suspicious Chemical Circumstances, can't we have a real ghost?

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Slade's Shado ghost? I'm going to say it's actually a remnant of real Slade, reaching out to manipulate the crazy and protect his friends. The only thing she actively did was stop Slade from killing Oliver and Sara, on the island. I'll probably be disappointed, and the ghost will be twirling a non-existent moustache and tying Laurel to train tracks within a couple of episodes, because this show doesn't do much in the way of subtlety.

Definite no to real ghosts, in my view. But hallucinations are cool, because they get to show us what the characters really think about themselves, like Oliver's three ghosts did in... Three Ghosts.

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Awesome title!  I'm glad that we get to see Celinda Jade some more, even if it's as Head!Shado. I'm curious to see whether she does end up manifesting as a remnant of conscience or as just diabolical.

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Mind Shadow calling the shots does help a lot in selling Slade's leap into crazy town. I'm very grateful,the show gave us something stronger than JuST his unrequited crush as a motivation for why he can't move on from the past.

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Maybe near the end of S3, we can get something going down with Slade's son, thereby setting up not only a prison break (It's a matter of when not if with Slade), but possible shenanigans in S4! See, parent ish tie-in even!

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All the super heroes and super villains can have a Bring your Kid to the Lair day

 

I'm a bad person. Because I saw the first two words in this post, and my first thought is an image of MB & SA dressed as Beyonce, doing 'All the Single Ladies.' My brain refuses to put DR in there. Oh, crap, there it is.

 

Okay, back on topic...

 

I'm finally into the Season One episodes that MB/Slade appear in. I really love his sense of humor with Ollie. I'm sad that I've watched this a little backwards, so I know they end up as enemies. His relationship with Oliver early on seems to be similar to Diggle's with Oliver currently - part mentor, part friend.

 

 

Oliver: Well, y'know, you're welcome to help! [slade lights the wood with a lighter.] Seriously? I've been working on this for two hours!

Slade: I know, I was watching you. Thank you...for the entertainment.

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Hey, Slade's right. When you're trapped on a island you have to make your own fun.

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Does anyone remember this TVLine interview quote:

 

TVLINE | When we first saw Slade sitting at that desk, talking to Sebastian, repeatedly the camera showed him clenching his fist over and over again. Is there any significance to that…?
There actually is significance to that — and funnily enough, it was thought up by Manu [bennett] himself. That will be explained later on.

 

 

I don't recall, what was the reason for Slade clenching his first like that?  Either it was never explained or I've totally forgotten. 

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This guy seems like he'll be around for awhile so what's his deal? Creepy stalker? Genius billionaire inventor? Will he get his own spin-off or will he be shipped off to The Flash.

 

I've said in other threads that I was okay at first with how he was pursuing Felicity professionally, but after reading some comments, I'm beginning to change my mind. It's only been two episodes, but I do get a vaguely creepy vibe from him. 

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I think, on paper his actions are sort of okay. Like, people buy companies just to get employees all of the time, especially within the computing/mathematics sector. 

 

Put in context however, Felicity was working a 'Best Buy' (or what ever it was called), not a job that he should have had difficulty already taking her from. What I mean by that is, it wasn't like Felicity was working at a large corporation that was paying her more and that was somewhere she truly enjoyed and felt as though it was a true fit to her capabilities. As he wasn't able to take her from that job, he should have realised that there were other factors into play, ones that he had no control over, and therefore he should have respected her decision. 

 

Another context factor is that he lied to her (by omission). He knew that she had been working for Oliver and was his friend, yet he sought her out to help him hack into QC, despite the fact that he knew that she was actively campaigning against him. He should have realised the fault of those actions and understood that he had started their relationship by a lie, so it would make total sense that she didn't trust him (and by extension his company).

 

Another context factor is that she said to him, to his face, that she didn't ever want to work with/for him. She had valid reasons for doing so, He did not seem to understand her wishes, let alone respect them, which is no basis to form a relationship (personal or professional) on.

 

Also, the whole 'I've known you for like a week but I know what you're thinking' is just really entitled and gross. 

 

And just an additional point - His (and tbf Oliver's) speech was probably the most wishy washy speech ever. If you want to buy a company, you have to talk specifically about what you're going to do for the company. You can't just say that you're going to be good for the company. 

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I was ok with his pursuit only being professional for now and getting romantic later. If you think about Felicity's intelligence as an asset, I actually like someone realising that her brain is worth however much they have to pay because it will be worth it. This is about a business acquisition and I can understand and respect a single-mindedness about making sure that you get what you need for your company.

 

...Then I read something about how the buying the company was a 50 shades of grey move (didn't read the book, mostly forget this story exists). I puked in my mouth. I.Just.Can't.Deal.With.This! If they actually date, I will cry and stop watching Arrow. My top thing that would make me quit this show is ruining Felicity. Does not say much about the girl if she chooses to be with and identifies him as the better choice. Better alone than with a creeper. Ugh...shudders of disgust.

Edited by fantique

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I was originally hoping for genius billionaire inventor because I love mad scientists. Just love them. 

 

Now that he's on screen, I'm going with stalker. For two reasons: one, he's been called that, repeatedly, in the script, and two, this guy is wealthy and successful enough to spend 1.2 billion buying up some stores.  After last year's debacle, the fact that the QC board was even willing to consider Oliver's return to the company suggests that they must have been desperate.  After all, their CEOs keep getting kidnapped and killed, their spanking new Applied Sciences division keeps getting broken into and blown up; AND they have to repair the office windows every couple of months. So, beyond the fact that Ray probably should have been able to hire someone to do research into QC for him, the fact that he felt he had to hack into QC distinctly feels like overkill, and like something is going wrong here.

 

His scenes have been enjoyable to watch, but so far I'm trusting him less than Isabel.

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Agreeing with all the comments above.  Creepy is the vibe I'm getting. Creepy guy who has an issue with boundaries & subtley. If Oliver is aloof, this guy is 180 degrees in the opposite direction and it's off-putting to me.

 

Just wanted to bless whoever came up with the title for this character thread.

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I feel as though his actions have been rewarded through Felicity joining his company. She had very valid reasons not to join his venture because he was deceptive, stalking her and didn't have any concept of the word "no". I'm not hating on Felicity at all, but it's just strange that she decided to go with creepy, stalker guy as a way to cease the day.

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I was ok with his pursuit only being professional for and getting romantic later.

Then I read something about how the buying the company was a 50 shades of gray (didn't read the book, mostly forget this story exists) move. I puked in my mouth. I.Just.Can't.Deal.With.This. If they actually date, I will cry and stop watching Arrow. My top thing that would make me quit this show is ruining Felicity. Does not say much about the girl if she chooses to be with and identifies him as the better choice. Better alone than with a creeper. Ugh...shudders of disgust.

Thing is, she took a job working for him, she didn't agree to date him. She was working at a shitty, dead-end retail job that she hated and was offered a lot of money to get back into a field she loves. That has everything to do with Felicity and nothing to do with Ray. Our view of him is clouded because we know he's there as a potential love interest.

He's a rich jackass who sees her skills as an asset that he wants/needs and he's going to use exhaustive measures to get them, especially since he sees her wasting away at a retail store. I don't think he bought the subsidiary that Tech Village fell under just so Felicity would work for him-those deals take forever to go through and he said he had long-term plans.

If he'd shown even a hint of romantic interest in her or tied her professional status to their personal status, I'd feel differently. Maybe I've been around too many recruiters, IDK. I definitely think he's an a-hole for the lying and other reasons, but the writers on this show fail at subtlety, so I'm not surprised that they can't write a nuanced character with questionable intentions, so the in-your-faceness of it all is icky, granted.

Edited by apinknightmare
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I'm unsure of how to feel at the moment.  To be honest, I was so rage-filled from the first two episodes that I mostly ignored Ray.  I remember Felicity calling him a stalker multiple times, and I'm not sure why they would want to drill that into our heads by repeating it over and over.  I've never read 50 Shades of Grey (but I have read some of the horrible one star reviews---that's fun, you should try it sometime), but I did read that io9 recap which made me wonder about the similarities between the two characters and whether they were intentional or not.  Here's hoping that the writers ease up on the creepiness factor, but even if they don't, Ray still isn't the worst character on this show.

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Well even though we know he'll be potential romantic styles for Felicity, he as a character spending that much money, telling her he did and then saying "most girls would be flattered" is enough for me to be put off regardless of, as I mentioned, romantic styles. It gives me the wrong impression of bruddah if he's that way professionally, what on earth will he do romantically? Unless we're to separate his business personality from his personal one, it seems a treacherous road. I cannot stand people whom do not understand the word "no". That kind of recruiting is so perverse.

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I believe they are repeating the stalker bit so much to remind us that Felicity has had to deal with one at some point in her life, and it's something that could possibly  be explained or explored more in the future. Sure, associating the term to your new character it's not the smartest thing to do. Anyways, I don't think he lied so much as omitted who he really was. It's not like he asked Felicity to help him hacking, she volunteered the information all by herself. I wonder if the show will explain if he actually went to Tech Village to meet her, and if that's the case, why he is interested in her specifically; or if they'll just leave the circumstances of their first meeting as they are and just go on with them working together.

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Ray doesn't bother me.  This whole storyline covers about 3 or 4 days in total for both episodes (I think - can't be bothered to try to work out their hellish nonsensical timelines), and he seemed to have backed off after their conversation at the elevator and agreed to let her be, because he was surprised to see her when she came to take the job.  The buying of the Tech Villages would have been impossible in that time-frame, so either that was coincidental (and he possibly only came across her name because he was already buying the stores) or it's just a daft way for the writers to try to show the audience that this guy sees Felicity's worth and is willing to put his money where his mouth is to get her to come and work for him.  It wasn't like he was forcing her to leave her job at Tech Village, nor would he, as owner of the holding company, have been likely to spend any time in that one store, so it's not like the gesture, if that's what it was, really meant anything in practical terms.  Basically it was a silly plot-line, so I can't be bothered to dwell on it or read anything terribly nefarious into it.  These writers know nothing about business, so I just chalk all their ridiculous plot-lines in this realm up to that.

 

Also, the conversation at the elevator was, I think, intended to show that the guy is perceptive enough to see that Felicity was upset in a very different way than she would have been if it was just about the whole job thing - i.e. that she was using her anger at him to mask her grief.  Which she was.  I thought it was their way of trying to show that he really saw her, and didn't assume that everything was all about him, but that she had other things going on and he wanted to help if he could.

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I think they also keep having Felicity mention that he's a stalker to say that yes, this is in-your-face and obnoxious and maybe this guy isn't to be trusted, so that when/if Felicity's opinion changes and she starts to trust him, (hopefully) we will too.

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We're changing the title and scope of this thread.  

 

Now this covers all supporting cast types, from One Season Wonders (most likely Ray) to guest stars, to recurring (The Huntress and the various Count Vertigos).

 

If anyone comes up with a pithy title, PM me and we'll change it.

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Agreeing with all the comments above.  Creepy is the vibe I'm getting. Creepy guy who has an issue with boundaries & subtley. If Oliver is aloof, this guy is 180 degrees in the opposite direction and it's off-putting to me.

I think the 180 is on purpose to contrast with Oliver.  And maybe to give the writers a little treat because it must be depressing writing dour and controlled all the time.

 

Honestly, I'm so angry at Oliver for pushing Felicity away and then when Sara died, being even more distant and dickish (She's doing the best she can, Oliver. What about your A-game?)  that it feels like I'll take any character who is willing to put Felicity first for a chance. Or even just to want her badly enough to pursue her instead of taking her for granted. As Barry said, he should have been thanking her for saving his life instead of yelling at her.  Taking Felicity for granted and failing to think about her feelings and wishes is Oliver's default mode.  Now that I think about it, except in terms of his crusade, Oliver is pretty self-centered.

 

So bring on Ray!  This show has never done subtlety so I'm reserving judgement on whether he's meant to be creepy.

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I get making Ray the opposite of Oliver and having the compare and contrast, but really I can't imagine Ray having anywhere near the horrific backstory that Oliver has. (Not that I'm interested in it, more regular cast backstory please!) 

 

It's easy to be nice and happy and sweet, when that is all you have ever gotten form the world. The test is how you react to adversity, so currently Ray just makes me want to defend Oliver's man-pain and Martyr complex, when really, I want Oliver to get over it.

 

Since Green Arrow is also a modern Robin Hood story, maybe the thread could be called

 

"The not so Merry…Supporting Cast"

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Thing is, she took a job working for him, she didn't agree to date him. She was working at a shitty, dead-end retail job that she hated and was offered a lot of money to get back into a field she loves. That has everything to do with Felicity and nothing to do with Ray. Our view of him is clouded because we know he's there as a potential love interest.

Oh I know, that's why I said if they really date. Like a two sided consenting (more like he would have worn her out) adult relationship. That's where I draw my line, her agreeing to work for him made sense. Her agreeing to open up her heart and have romantic feelings for him doesn't. Unless, they blow my mind and find a way to make him not creepy at all. Or show that maybe in business he goes for it but in his personal life he is a lot more shy, which then would be cute (but that would ruin the contrast between Oliver and Ray).

Sorry this is me being irrational, I just got put off and freaked out because of the 50 shades reference which terrifies me. Felicity is too good to be compared to a weak Bella Swan knock off. Not even a weak Bella Swan, a knock off version of that!!!!

"The not so Merry…Supporting Cast"

I second the motion to name this thread like this.

Edited by fantique
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I know the episode hasn't aired yet, but I'm putting it out there anyway. I love Mama Smoak and Charlotte Ross is perfection. I already need a return visit and more Team Arrow interaction. I hope she encourages her daughter to find happiness any way she can. 

 

And if the writers really love me, we'll get a road trip to Vegas.

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I don't know if its because of the lack of the dynamics I love (Team Arrow, Olicity, Diggle/Felicity), but I'm already feeling a crazy amount of affection for Mama Smoak.

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I loved Mama Smoak, some small things that I enjoyed.

 

I liked the small look down at Felicity chest when, she was yelling at her about "how much cleavage she shows", like this was secretly judging the dress Felicity was wearing. Little does she know about her PA wardrobe.

 

The fact that she is aware Ray and Oliver, but a bit in the sense of them being Whales (potential and/or past), and weighing them up a potential mates for her daughter.

 

She seems warmer to Oliver than Ray, I think those two could have a very nice Mom/Son-inlaw dynamic if the show goes there.

 

Even though she has her insecurities she still sticks up for herself, a trait Felicity has

 

They found a perfect way to demonstrate, "my mother is…my mother" without it being dark and angsty.

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This website speculates on two possible 'real' identities for Chase (other than Douchebag DJ and Thea's love interest)...

 

EDITORIAL: Random Thoughts on Austin Butler's Character
By Arrowverse - 12/21/2014
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/green_arrow/arrow/news/?a=112697

 

Has Jericho Been In Arrow All Along?
By dannramm113 - 12/20/2014
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/green_arrow/arrow/news/?a=112676

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Wow, if they're intending to make him a recurring comic book character, their eyes really are bigger than their writing ability.

 

Why do both reviews refer to him as "charismatic"?  Was that in the press release?  Because 'narcissistic douchebag' seems a better description to me.

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I was hoping after they saw the footage of 3.07 with him, they would rethink his character altogether. I can't think of a worst introduction - the character, the writing, the acting...Ew

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Why do both reviews refer to him as "charismatic"?  Was that in the press release?  Because 'narcissistic douchebag' seems a better description to me.

Lol agreed. I think there's been speculation about him being a canon comic book character from the beginning though. I'd have to go back and read the TVLine announcement to see if I saw it there or somewhere else.

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Positive article about Ray Palmer...

If done correctly, an Atom series could be the perfect hybrid between a Flash and proper Batman series.
....While The Atom still has another half a season of Arrow to look forward to, it’s time for him to forsake his name and go big with a headlining series. Alongside Arrow and The Flash, The Atom could be The CW’s third pillar for their very own trinity.

Why The Atom Deserves His Own Spinoff Series
By Andrew Steinbeiser 12/22/2014
http://comicbook.com/2014/12/22/why-the-atom-deserves-his-own-spinoff-series/

Edited by tv echo

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Interesting take. I don't feel a draw to an Atom series like I did to The Flash or would have to Birds of Prey (Sara Lance Black Canary, of course.) BR's going to have to tone down the crazy eyes and really impress me during 2B to make me care about him or Atom. 

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I think we're watching different shows.

 

However, Brandon Routh would do okay with his own show, and there would me more "magic" tech than on Arrow.  I've realized that the deciding factor for me whether I watch a show or not is if a character on a show pulls me in and makes me want to find out what happens to him or her. Ray Palmer isn't there yet.

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I haven't connected to Ray Palmer as of yet because I just haven't seen any depth regarding his character which isn't really helping. Yes, he has his very own sob story, or 'island' as people call it these days, but it offered little depth to his character, only showed that he had a shitty year, which is what I think is wrong with Laurel's arc. The problem with Ray's arc is that it's heavily dependent on Felicity. And this is a problem because it's usually Felicity who gets the character development moments with their scenes, Ray gets the shaft character development wise. 

 

To me, this is Ray so far: Has boundary issues, is freakishly smart, wants to protect Starling because of the death of his wife, is a good person (just like everyone else on Team Arrow), is giving (I think? i mean he did offer to give his paycheck to the poor), has no idea how to interact with human beings, has the hots for Felicity (I think?), is insanely rich and nice. 

 

There's nothing really unique about Ray because other characters already have his characteristics bar the boundary issues and interaction problems. This is why I don't really connect with him or am bothered to even care about him. Ray, to me, is just a cookie cutter supporting actor whose depth will probably be never exposed in this show. And while I don't really care, I just feel like he's a waste of space only there to create unnecessary drama along with other characters on this show.

 

And because Ray has no depth, I'm not really feeling his romance with Felicity. I just hope that they remain good friends. His romance with Felicity is just as shallow as Ray which is why I don't want it to happen. Felicity dating another man will never be explored because this show is called 'Arrow'. Also because after the events of The Climb, I don't think it would be appropriate for Felicity to date Ray even if it's comfort sex or whatever. Because then this would undermine her feelings for Oliver and I don't want that. Why do I say Raylicity has no depth? Because the best thing people can come up with about why they work is that "they're super cute and quirky, and Ray treats her right". While that last part is important, it's not a good enough reason for Felicity to be with him. But that's just my opinion :) 

 

Could Brandon Routh carry a show? Absolutely. I think he could make the Atom interesting, but it's never going to happen on Arrow. 

Edited by wonderwall
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yeah I'm pretty indifferent to Ray. I liked him at first but I don't care about him anymore. Don't care about Felicity/Ray "relationship" at all or him becoming the Atom. And yeah I don't think many people really like Ray on this site.

 

I don't mind Ray, and actually like him when he isn't invading Felicity's privacy. I enjoy Emily Bett Rickards' chemistry with Brandon Routh. it's different. More playful, I think. I'm still waiting to see the Old Hollywood-style banter the EPs were teasing during the summer. I think they can pull it off, but these writers aren't exactly delivering on the snappy dialogue.

 

I don't mind that he hasn't interacted with other characters; that's changing soon anyway. I was actually glad Felicity had somebody in her life not connected to Team Arrow. Do I wish it was a much better character? Of course. But he's serving Felicity's story so I'm not gonna complain ... much.

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I don't mind Ray, and actually like him when he isn't invading Felicity's privacy. I enjoy Emily Bett Rickards' chemistry with Brandon Routh. it's different. More playful, I think. I'm still waiting to see the Old Hollywood-style banter the EPs were teasing during the summer. I think they can pull it off, but these writers aren't exactly delivering on the snappy dialogue.

I don't mind that he hasn't interacted with other characters; that's changing soon anyway. I was actually glad Felicity had somebody in her life not connected to Team Arrow. Do I wish it was a much better character? Of course. But he's serving Felicity's story so I'm not gonna complain ... much.

I enjoyed him a lot episode 1, 3 and episode 5. And unlike most people I don't really thing he's a "creepy stalker" haha. And I think BR is good in the role and he has some chemistry with EBR but any romantic relationship Between them feels forced so far. And the past few episodes have just made me care about him less. Also i feel him becoming "the atom" on the show isn't really needed. I guess it's nice that Felicity has her own storyline and life separate from team arrow because that was my main gripe about her character in S1 and 2. Edited by ban1o
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Aside for the Olicity blocking and the Crazy eyes, my problem with Ray is that rather than giving Felicity her own Storyline, I feel they are using Felicity to service Ray's Storyline.

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They also used her for that in Barry's storyline too though.    They bond over geeky science, so that Felilcity knows that Barry can save Oliver, and brings him into the cave.

Felicity gets a crush on Barry, which makes Oliver realize his feelings.  Other than in SOOFS, she's pretty  much been reduced to a catalyst when she's not doing tech stuff for Team Arrow.

 

Something I found interest

 

“We start to understand why he’s doing what he’s doing, and there are a couple of conversations between Felicity that will happen in the next few episodes where you understand on a deeper level that he’s not here just because he’s a playboy billionaire wanting to make a cool suit, fight crime and wanting to be a hero,” Routh teases. “He felt helpless and he couldn't help the woman he loved most in the world. He’s there to defend her honor and her memory and everyone else out there who’s helpless and needs a hand, he’s there to be the savior.”

Once again, suiting up to honor a dead loved one, but like Sara and Roy, he's there to help the helpless.  (I don't like the wording that "he's there to be the savior".  He should be there so save, not to be the savior.

Edited by statsgirl
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