The Not So Merry...Supporting Cast

[kismet]

I am glad that this Ras is gone... But I've gotta admit I think I might miss him for all the wrong reasons. I sorta loved all the cheesy moments he had when he was imagined himself some type of therapist/mystic on the mountain. The affable Boy references, tell me your dreams, wines & dines, learn from my mistakes, trust me I can see into your fuuuuture. He felt like that old man who hangs on at social functions, just waiting to make his move ~ one part creeper, one part cautionary tale & one part washed up romantic. All parts sad but yet kinda endearing in a weird way. About the only time he really felt menacing was in how he treated his daughter in the latter part of the season. That's when he felt a little evil & sociopathic. I kept waiting for his evil to burst out, that this laid back vibe & bravado he had was all part of his thing. Because it can be a good tactic to have, being so laid back that you become unpredictable and make it hard for others to identify your trigger points. But nah after that finale, it turns out he might have just been that lame old man at the bar.

[statsgirl]

The first time that I felt  that Ra's was truly evil was when he started targeting people dressed as Oliver at the end of 3x16.  And that's waaaaaaaay too late for the season's Big Bad.

 

Most of the season I thought Malcolm was going to be the Big Bad again. Or Amanda Waller.

 

It was necessary for me to be scared of Ra's to appreciate all of Oliver's sacrifices along the way -- fighting Ra's to save Thea, telling Felicity he loves her as he goes to his possible death, joining forces with Malcolm Merlyn against the strong opposition of his two closest friends, and finally willing to die to save his city -- because then I would have been right there with the show on the emotional roller coaster, terrified that Ra's would win and these characters I cared about would be gone.  Instead, I spent most of the season wondering why Oliver was acting like such an idiot..

 

As a Big Bad, I think Ra's was a Big Fail. Here's hoping Damian Darhk is better.

[manbearpig]

For me, they're 1/3 for successful big bads. And that one is being generous considering that they ruined Malcolm by bringing him back, but he was a lot of fun in season one; villainous in an insane comic book way, with a connection to the bulk of the series regulars on the show. Slade was great initially but they brought him into the present storyline way too quickly and then messed up his motivation and made him seem like an actual crazy person, who really only worked because Manu Bennett is a very charismatic actor.

 

The less said about Ra's the better. I get that he almost killed Oliver and Thea, and that he terrified Malcolm. Despite that, the character didn't work for me and I still think Moira using his name as a weapon against Malcolm was more effective than anything Ra's did to anyone this season...which is absurd to me since he literally kicked the lead off a cliff, and yet...still not as intimidating as Moira saying his name. Can't say I'm expecting next year's big bad to be any better, but we'll see.

[statsgirl]

I still think Moira using his name as a weapon against Malcolm was more effective than anything Ra's did to anyone this season

Yes.  When Moira used just Ra's name to frighten Malcolm away, he was the baddest of the bad.  And then we met him in his hot tub and it all went downhill from there.

[tennisgurl]

That was one of my favorite scenes on this show, ever. Moira threatening Malcolm with Ra`s name, and having the LoA on speed dial, was amazing. So much more badass than what the League actually turned out to be. 

 

So, I kind of learned to tolerate Ray by the end of the season. I mean, I don't like him, and they still need to deal with his creepiness, and his dickish tendencies, especially when it came to dealing with the Arrow, but when he and Felicity broke up, I could at least tolerate his presence. BR is a likable actor, and when they just let him be likable, he can almost make Ray work. As long as I don't think about how he stalked Felicity, how he electrocuted Roy, how he is apparently hoarding amazing medial magic bots...

 

Basically, is I start his show thinking of him as a totally new guy, maybe I`ll be ok with him. 

[calliope1975]

That was one of my favorite scenes on this show, ever. Moira threatening Malcolm with Ra`s name, and having the LoA on speed dial, was amazing. So much more badass than what the League actually turned out to be. 

 

So, I kind of learned to tolerate Ray by the end of the season. I mean, I don't like him, and they still need to deal with his creepiness, and his dickish tendencies, especially when it came to dealing with the Arrow, but when he and Felicity broke up, I could at least tolerate his presence. BR is a likable actor, and when they just let him be likable, he can almost make Ray work. As long as I don't think about how he stalked Felicity, how he electrocuted Roy, how he is apparently hoarding amazing medial magic bots...

 

Basically, is I start his show thinking of him as a totally new guy, maybe I`ll be ok with him. 

 

That's my plan as well. I think the ensemble cast will do Ray's character good. He needs other personalities, unlike himself, to bounce off of. 

[Starfish35]

I actually started really enjoying Ray from about Broken Arrow on. I think earlier in the season they did too much with Ray as Super-Oliver, and that was a big turn-off. And he plays so much better off a straight man character than he does off Felicity by herself. Just from the LoT promo, it looks like they're going to be focusing more on Ray as goofy scientist than as genius millionaire businessman, and I think that will be a vast improvement.

[formerlyfreedom]

Feel free to take discussion of Ray Palmer over to the DC Legends of Tomorrow forum, to his brand new topic!

[Happy Harpy]

That was one of my favorite scenes on this show, ever. Moira threatening Malcolm with Ra`s name, and having the LoA on speed dial, was amazing. So much more badass than what the League actually turned out to be. 

Moira, badass in chief,  was too badass for this universe. That's why the bastards killed her. 

Sigh. I actually think they killed Arrow, the TV show, when they killed Moira. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[FurryFury]

Moira was the first thing that made me interested in the show. Other than her, the pilot was pretty meh, but I was genuinely surprised to learn that the hero's mother - not father, not brother, not stepfather - was a potential villain. Of course, her character had only become more complex after that, but she had always remained one of my favorites. Coupled together, Sara being relegated to being a stepping stone to Laurel magically becoming a superhero overnight, Moira dying and Slade being ruined with his awful motivation all made me quit the show after season 2. Looks like I made it out in time, judging by the reactions to season 3.

Edited May 17, 2015 by FurryFury

[tv echo]

Matt Nable's take on Ra's...

 

Underbelly star Matt Nable on why Arrow supervillain Ra’s Al Ghul isn’t so bad
8:15am May 17, 2015  Adam Vidler
http://www.9news.com.au/entertainment/2015/05/15/15/30/matt-nable-speaks-out-on-his-role-as-arrow-s-biggest-villain

However, despite his villainous megalomania, the character has traditionally been depicted as an honourable and dignified foe, which Nable said he tried to emulate.

 

The actor and former rugby league player said his take on Ra's hinged on the fact that the character was certainly a villain - but not in his own eyes.

 

"He's a guy who replaces evil with death," he said.

 

"I just tried to give him this worldly, calm manner, I didn't want him to be shouting all the time."
*  *  *
Nable's own favourite moments included his scenes with lead actor Amell, particularly in portraying the twisted mirror-image relationship between the pair.

 

"Ra's sees a lot of himself in Oliver," he said.

 

"By way of Ra's' thinking, they're very similar. They're both trying to save the world."

Edited May 18, 2015 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

This gif of Caity keeps showing up on my tumblr feed, and makes me miss Sara so much. She really elevated every action scene she was in.

[wonderwall]

My favorite ones:

 

 

 

Her movements are just so fluid in these, it's just astonishing

[Sakura12]

This is my favorite one. She almost ran all the way up the wall. 

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Well, for me, Oliver's major, genuinely inexplicable what are you doing decision was his decision to team up with Malcolm Merlyn and tell Thea that Malcolm could stay on the couch. (Why?)  And there, I think the fundamental problem was that Ra's Al Ghul this season wasn't scary enough. We heard plenty of tidbits about the guy last season, but then again, at the end of the season Ra's at least allowed a group of League Assassins to help bring down Slade and the Mirakuru soldiers, and frankly, in my opinion, Amanda Waller, what with teaching Oliver how to torture people, trying to shoot down entire planes just to kill one person (and as a side effect I guess cripple the Chinese economy since apparently that was the goal of the bioweapon as well), turning people into assassins, using sociopaths to rescue questionable senators, and bioweapons was a lot scarier than Ra's was and a much worse person. If Oliver had teamed up with Malcolm to take down Amanda Waller, that would have been interesting, and I think we all could have had a really good argument about whether or not Oliver was justified in teaming up with Malcolm to stop Amanda and ARGUS.  (Plus, that would have created a different Diggle/Lyla/Deadshot conflict.) 

 

But with Ra's - sure, he was evil, but he seemed to me to be less of an immediate threat than first season Malcolm, Slade, Reverse Flash, Fyers, Amanda Waller or even Laurel - ok, I'm kidding about Laurel.  The worst thing Ra's did all season was incapacitate Oliver for long enough to allow Brick to take over, which really was more of an indictment against the Starling City government (while offering a plot reason for Ray and Laurel to get into costume). It didn't help that Barry ended the season by saying, "Yeah, I get that Ra's is bad - but I've got to talk to Not-Wells about my my mother!" It just made Ra's seem like even less of a threat - Slade was bad enough that everyone had to team up, Reverse Flash was bad enough that everyone had to team up, Ra's was - oh, yeah, we gotta go do some other crap. Good thing you "scientists" only need a couple of hours to create a cure for the bioweapon - uh, wait, if you can create a cure for a bioweapon in a few hours why haven't you cured HIV/AIDS yet?

 

So for me, this comes down again not so much as an Oliver problem, but a season three Big Bad problem. 

 

I agree. This is my main problem with the show this season, I couldn't take the Big Bad seriously. He didn't feel like much of a threat. I didn't understand him or his motivations. I didn't understand what the league actually does. The show kept having Felicity and Diggle point out it's an evil group based on the name, but I needed more than that. Ra's mentioned his "mission" and "crusade" but even until the end I had no idea what that was exactly: Who do they kill? Why do they kill? To rid the world of evil? Sara mentioned killing a politician in S2. So, are they involved in world politics? To what end? Also, the show didn't provide me with enough information to understand why the heck he's so obsessed with the damn prophecy. He's supposed to be this really menacing figure and yet, in the end, he just came across a stalker (and we already had that in Ray).

 

At least with Malcolm in Season 1, I understood why he wanted the Glades leveled. Lost his wife, blamed the entire community. Insane but it sort of made sense. With Slade in Season 2, it was personal. He blamed Oliver for Shado dying. It was weak, especially because they never really showed us that Slade was madly in love with Shado except for that 1 scene where he was spying on them near the river or something. But the vendetta made sense in a way. Ra's? I got nuthin'.

 

That was my problem with Brick, too, during the not-really-BC trilogy in the middle of the season. I just didn't buy him as a big enough threat to justify Laurel being out there. (I kept thinking, just let Diggle loose on them. Why the heck is the most skilled fighter in the damn lair manning comms? Oh, that's right, the show needs to manufacture the rise of BC.) I still can't get over the fact the Glades folks were rallied to fight Brick's men with nothing more than 2x4's. That should have been a massacre.

[tarotx]

It's not just the big scarey missing from Ra's but also the serenity peace giver missing from Ra's and the LOA. Why does a large group of people willing go to Ra's and give him money or stuff like Alpha and Omega viruses. I know there is the LP and brainwashing but there really needed to have that compassion cult leader persona that gives away to menacing evil for Ra's to work imo. Oliver's, Nyssa, Sara, Malcolm and Maseo motivation mean little without a powerful Ra's.

Edited May 30, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

Anyone remember the Assassins league from Wanted? Angelina Jolie?

 

Why couldn't we get that? A once honorable cause corrupted by a mad man. Half a season at least of why they were so deadly, a couple episodes to expose the cracks and then an all out war, with a few Assassins breaking from the league to assist Team Arrow. Season ends in Ra's death and Nyssa taking that mantle to get the LOA back to that honorable cause. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[calliope1975]

And yet she sticks with the one who treats her like dirt.

It'll be interesting to see if the explore who Felicity's father is. I suspect we'll see like mother, like daughter.

 

From the Media thread.

 

I don't know enough about Donna Smoak to believe that she lets men (and/or Felicity's father) treat her like dirt. We don't know why Felicity's father left or what the circumstances were. We do know that she worked her ass off in Vegas to raise a child she couldn't connect with intellectually. She managed to keep what seems to be a sunny outlook on life despite being a single mother working 60 hour weeks in heels. 

 

I have no faith in the writers exploring a nuanced tale of Felicity's abandonment issues, but I don't know that I can blame Donna for them. I can agree with hoping to get more Mama Smoak and whomever Daddy Smoak may be next year and seeing the insight that gives into Felicity. 

[Nifty62]

I just got to the episode where Thea hires Chase as a DJ and within 4 seconds he became my most hated character on the entire show.

**Spoiler**

He comes in and expects her to just take him at his word and hire him.

I do not care if he was the greatest DJ in the world. I would NEVER hire him.

And of course they have Thea fumbling around like an idiot so he can come in and save the day. "OMG! HE PLAYED A SONG! HES SO GREAT!"

Its so aggravating.

[BkWurm1]

He's so awful it feels wrong to give him a whole thread.  Maybe we can fold this into The Not So Merry Supporting Cast Thread?

[BkWurm1]

I just got to the episode where Thea hires Chase as a DJ and within 4 seconds he became my most hated character on the entire show.

**Spoiler**

He comes in and expects her to just take him at his word and hire him.

I do not care if he was the greatest DJ in the world. I would NEVER hire him.

And of course they have Thea fumbling around like an idiot so he can come in and save the day. "OMG! HE PLAYED A SONG! HES SO GREAT!"

Its so aggravating.

I seriously wonder what the whole point of the dude was.  Side note I also seriously loved how he was dubbed almost universally DJ Douchebag or some such combo. 

 

Why did the writers feel the need to introduce him with such an extreme case of swagger?  Why couldn't he have just been good or funny or charming?  Maybe (and this is a scary thought) the writers think that is what they wrote.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

I seriously wonder what the whole point of the dude was.  Side note I also seriously loved how he was dubbed almost universally DJ Douchebag or some such combo. 

 

Why did the writers feel the need to introduce him with such an extreme case of swagger?  Why couldn't he have just been good or funny or charming?  Maybe (and this is a scary thought) the writers think that is what they wrote.  

 

Kinda like going for charming with Ray but turning him into a stalker instead? I think the character was supposed to play a bigger role but the almost universal hate on social media put a kibosh on whatever the plans they had for him. I mean, even critics were almost gleeful in their savage reviews, LOL!

[calliope1975]

I think the character was supposed to play a bigger role but the almost universal hate on social media put a kibosh on whatever the plans they had for him. I mean, even critics were almost gleeful in their savage reviews, LOL!

 

But wait! Doncha know TIIC care not a whit was is said on social media. They have a plannnn and mock anyone who believes they are influenced by anything other than their own brilliance. Sorry, my sarcasm is showing.

 

I do think maybe there was supposed to be more to DJ Douchebag. That actor's decently well known and they played up that he was going to be Thea's love interest. Maybe he was like Isabel and Ted - a character that was better in idea than in execution.

[Chaser]

I think they figured out from the first day he was on set that his character wasn't going to work at all and just half assed everything to get him out. 

[BkWurm1]

Maybe he was like Isabel and Ted - a character that was better in idea than in execution.

 

Now we've been hearing that the original intent was for the Oliver - Sara lunge to be an Oliver/Isabel lunge.  (But Summer Glau was not available).  I honestly think Sara was a better choice even if it was kind of out of nowhere.  I think I would have been so much more disappointed in Oliver if he'd gone back to Isabel after he'd heard the "I think you deserve better" from Felicity.  Oh and sleeping with her once was bad enough but imagine if he'd had an ongoing affair with his father's mistress?

[kismet]

I wonder when they found out about Summer Glau's availability. An OQ/Isabel that would have worked for me if they had not had FS's "you deserve better line" & the who Isabel as his Dad's mistress. But those could have been thrown into the script afterwards or late into production if they found out that SG would not be available. I feel like the mistress thing was totally added on for dramatic effect.

 

I think I would have preferred a OQ/Isabel relationship instead of OQ/SL, if only because OQ choosing to be with SL after the island did seem like a real sucker punch to both his & SL's relationship with LL. I mean I get the attraction & the appeal of OQ/SL, but somehow it just felt really wrong in that regard. Especially since the writers were not getting off LL is the BC rollercoaster. It really added another layer of melodrama that I just did not need.  

[tarotx]

The DJ's actor must have got work else well. That does make 3 stunted story arcs for season 3. With Amanda Waller and Ted Grant as well.

Edited June 17, 2015 by tarotx

[quarks]

I've always thought that an Oliver/Isabel partnership (as opposed to relationship) starting up at the end of "Heir to the Demon" would have worked very well - with that episode ending with Oliver knocking on someone's door and Isabel opening the door. Cut.  Leaves everyone wondering if they are sleeping together. We later find out that no, they aren't, but they have teamed up to get Moira out of the company, and although Oliver is still publicly supporting his mother in her mayoral run, he's privately supporting Isabel as she works with Sebastian Blood and helps fund his campaign. 

 

Everything else would more or less remain the same - Sara still joins Team Arrow and fights with Oliver over the killing/not killing thing; Laurel realizes she's an alcoholic and tries to mend fences, Isabel still betrays Oliver, only it's worse because she and Oliver were working together against Moira; after not killing Roy Sara realizes that she's still a killer and that Starling needs help to bring down Slade.  Laurel would still have found out Oliver's secret and done the whole hug thing, leading viewers to wonder ominously if Oliver/Laurel would be starting up again, allowing the mansion scene to be a surprise.  Main differences: viewers, instead of waiting for the inevitable Oliver/Sara breakup, would instead wonder if Oliver would be stupid enough to sleep with Isabel again. Oliver wouldn't have come to that dinner as Sara's current boyfriend, sparing Laurel some pain, but rather as someone there to help diffuse tension/apologize for being part of starting the whole thing. He and Laurel could have fought about that, or even about Isabel.  We all would have been spared that awkward scene of Laurel offering Oliver and Sara relationship advice.

 

Oh well.

[Password]

The tears in my eyes right now shame me.

[statsgirl]

The DJ's actor must have got work elsewell. That does make 3 stunted story arcs for season 3. With Amanda Waller abd Ted Grant as well.

 

Unlike JR Ramirez, I thought he got work a lot later than Arrow.  I would like to think that they (EPs, WB) saw the dailies and unlike with EBR, realized that this was a character that wasn't working at all and decided to cut the pretty pointless arc short.  Having Ra's stab Thea just made so much more sense than having DJ Douchebag do it.

 

It almost feels like the point of DJ Douchebag was to stall Roy/Thea and a character whose main purpose is to stall a couple being together never works out well.

I've always thought that an Oliver/Isabel partnership (as opposed to relationship) starting up at the end of "Heir to the Demon" would have worked very well - with that episode ending with Oliver knocking on someone's door and Isabel opening the door. Cut.  Leaves everyone wondering if they are sleeping together. We later find out that no, they aren't, but they have teamed up to get Moira out of the company, and although Oliver is still publicly supporting his mother in her mayoral run, he's privately supporting Isabel as she works with Sebastian Blood and helps fund his campaign.

 

The problem that I have with this scenario (and why I'm glad Summer Glau wasn't available) is that it makes Oliver s3 levels of stupid even in s2.  He knows Isabel was trying to take over the company, as Felicity flat out said, and he doesn't have much reason to trust her even now (she was in flat out Bitch mode in the Russia episode).  Signing over the company to her when he was frantic because Thea was kidnapped was understandable; trusting her and working with her against his mother would not have been.

 

Oliver may have been furious at his mother for keeping Thea's parentage a secret (not that Mr. Glass House should be throwing stones) but to work with someone untrustworthy behind her back to put into office a guy Oliver knows little about?  There would go his Hero card.

[apinknightmare]

It almost feels like the point of DJ Douchebag was to stall Roy/Thea and a character whose main purpose is to stall a couple being together never works out well.

 

That would've been really stupid if that was their intention, because I never once got the feeling that Roy and Thea even wanted to be together after they broke up, haha. It was the most mature breakup/post-breakup friendship I've seen on a CW show, and a lot of other shows at that. They broke up, they were friendly, and it was nice. 

[tarotx]

Roy and Thea broke up as friends. The point of the DJ was to give Thea a combative/adversarial love interest. Seems that is what the CW loves.

Also the way the Dj tries to kill Thea is another situration of a repeated theme when Ra's not only attempts, but actually kills her. The Whole season had Lets do this again about it. It had to be on purpose but it often made me wish for less episodes. I didn't need to rewatch the same events with just a slight twist. Get to the main events quick or have two mini seasons in the time alloted.

Edited June 17, 2015 by tarotx

[BkWurm1]

Also the way the Dj tries to kill Thea is another situration of a repeated theme when Ra's not only attempts, but actually kills her. The Whole season had Lets do this again about it. It had to be on purpose but it often made me wish for less episodes. I didn't need to rewatch the same events with just a slight twist. Get to the main events quick or have two mini seasons in the time alloted.

 

Yes, it is a repeat and the first time around Malcolm was watching out for her safety and the LoA was only still a nebulous threat, but of course when everyone knew they were in the city and actively doing stuff to get Oliver's attention NOBODY thinks to make sure Thea is never alone.   The rehash only served to emphasize the plot holes. 

[FurryFury]

Roy and Thea broke up as friends. The point of the DJ was to give Thea a combative/adversarial love interest. Seems that is what the CW loves.

 

Well, this is a pretty good dynamic when executed correctly. Roy/Thea were a pretty sucky romance TBH, they had a few sweet moments, but that's it. It wasn't anywhere enough for a big, show-spanning story. And I suspect, whatever it is they're saying, that the writers/producers realized that Roy was just eating space, he wasn't interesting enough on his own and not many people cared about him. I mean, yeah, many said they liked him and were sad to see him go, but I don't think he inspired any sort of big emotions. Even Laurel does, whether it's love or hate.

 

I haven't seen the season, but even if this DJ was a misfire, I suspect that the writers will want to use Thea for a big, possibly plot-related romance arc in the future, now that Olicity are together. It could propel her popularity and we already know that Willa is a capable actress. Maybe with time, Thea could become a stand-out character - and maybe the show hopes it will happen, because they should realize that Laurel will never be such.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FurryFury

[BkWurm1]

Well, this is a pretty good dynamic when executed correctly. Roy/Thea were a pretty sucky romance TBH, they had a few sweet moments, but that's it. It wasn't anywhere enough for a big, show-spanning story. And I suspect, whatever it is they're saying, that the writers/producers realized that Roy was just eating space, he wasn't interesting enough on his own and not many people cared about him. I mean, yeah, many said they liked him and were sad to see him go, but I don't think he inspired any sort of big emotions. Even Laurel does, whether it's love or hate.

 

I haven't seen the season

 

Roy really came into his own IMO in season three.  He became his own man on the team and had his own connections.  He too suffered from some whiplash re characterization ie writing to plot but season three made me care a lot for Roy and he earned his place on the team and in my affection.  I really wanted him and Thea to reunite.  I think Roy deciding for her that she wasn't going into hiding with him was the first time I questioned them as a couple. 

[TrueMyth]

I was thinking about the speculation for Felicity's father, and now I really want him to be a priest.  Because then he would be a Holy Smoak.

 

Happy Monday everyone.  I'll be here all week.  Try the veal.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I've always thought that an Oliver/Isabel partnership (as opposed to relationship) starting up at the end of "Heir to the Demon" would have worked very well - with that episode ending with Oliver knocking on someone's door and Isabel opening the door. Cut.  Leaves everyone wondering if they are sleeping together. We later find out that no, they aren't, but they have teamed up to get Moira out of the company, and although Oliver is still publicly supporting his mother in her mayoral run, he's privately supporting Isabel as she works with Sebastian Blood and helps fund his campaign. 

 

Everything else would more or less remain the same - Sara still joins Team Arrow and fights with Oliver over the killing/not killing thing; Laurel realizes she's an alcoholic and tries to mend fences, Isabel still betrays Oliver, only it's worse because she and Oliver were working together against Moira; after not killing Roy Sara realizes that she's still a killer and that Starling needs help to bring down Slade.  Laurel would still have found out Oliver's secret and done the whole hug thing, leading viewers to wonder ominously if Oliver/Laurel would be starting up again, allowing the mansion scene to be a surprise.  Main differences: viewers, instead of waiting for the inevitable Oliver/Sara breakup, would instead wonder if Oliver would be stupid enough to sleep with Isabel again. Oliver wouldn't have come to that dinner as Sara's current boyfriend, sparing Laurel some pain, but rather as someone there to help diffuse tension/apologize for being part of starting the whole thing. He and Laurel could have fought about that, or even about Isabel.  We all would have been spared that awkward scene of Laurel offering Oliver and Sara relationship advice.

 

Oh well.

 

Who can we bribe to get you on Arrow's writing staff? Tell me. We can probably pool some money from folks on this board ;)

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley responded to the following fan question about Lyla yesterday...

 

I have to tell you how excited I am about Lyla Michaels getting more and more popular with the character. I've been a fan since she and John shared their first scene and I feel like everyone is catching up with me lol. I really think she shined in season three and was the one character who didn't get screwed over by the writers. (knock on wood) I also LOVED the interactions with Thea and Felicity in Al Sahim. Do you think that the writers will actually develop the Felicity\Lyla relationship?
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/123387987941/i-have-to-tell-you-how-excited-i-am-about-lyla

[tv echo]

For Ray fans (lots of nice animated gifs of Ray scenes)...

 

13 Times Ray Palmer From “Arrow” Was Too Precious For This World
Nancy Curtis  posted on Jul. 24, 2015, at 3:40 p.m.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/nancyicurtis6/13-times-ray-palmer-from-arrow-was-too-precious-1kzt1#.isdyPlwxZ

Edited July 30, 2015 by tv echo

[Menrva]

For Ray fans (lots of nice animated gifs of Ray scenes)...

13 Times Ray Palmer From “Arrow” Was Too Precious For This World

Nancy Curtis posted on Jul. 24, 2015, at 3:40 p.m.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/nancyicurtis6/13-times-ray-palmer-from-arrow-was-too-precious-1kzt1#.isdyPlwxZ

Yeah, so I went through that article and...sorry, not doing it for me. Applaud the effort, though. Glad to know the guy's got some fans out there. Somewhere.

[kismet]

I'm not sure if this post is more for this thread or the bitterness thread... But I just got through reading another great Tommy & Felicity fanfic and it just makes me bitter that we will never get to see that friendship blossom on screen. Especially now with all the rumours of a lighter & more balanced Oliver Queen in s4. It would have been so wonderful to have him there with his best friend. I just think the 3 of the, would have gotten along so well. IDK, I just miss some of humour that Tommy brought to the show. He just made the other characters more multi-dimensional. I guess I just really miss Tommy. Just like Sara, Shado & Moira's deaths, I know in theory why they needed to die for story purposes... but I can think of other characters that I would have preferred to see go first. At least,

we'll get Sara back

. Somehow that still doesn't make me miss Tommy any less.

[wingster55]

You know...I really don't think Isabel was so bad based on what we learned from the first half..ok she tried to take over QC. But is that so heinous...it clearly needed leadership and no one was stepping up. Felicity judging her based on that...was ridiculous since Ray DID THE SAME THING. I enjoyed her talks with Oliver in Russia and the Christmas eps (I forget if it was The Scientist or 3 Ghosts)

[apinknightmare]

I can't really remember, but didn't Isabel stage a hostile takeover of QC? Ray put a bid on a company that was in receivership or whatever. Those are two very different things. Felicity was right to not trust Isabel wanting to work with Oliver since she was trying to take over the company in the first place - her motivations were suspect. Ray outright got approval from the board to purchase QC.

[wingster55]

I...think that you're right in that regard..but Isabel didn't have the same...luxury of Ray since QC was sold by Oliver and then Isabel died.

Plus..Isabel could have simply had the mindset of it just being business...not like she was gonna fire everyone or anything. 

[apinknightmare]

I guess I'm not following your argument. Isabel was going to take over the company and lay off the employees - Felicity said as much when she and Diggle went to the island to get Oliver back (she herself was going to be out of a job). Felicity was right not to trust her. I'm not sure what Ray has to do with it since he purchased the company on the up and up.

Edited August 2, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Angel12d]

Isabel was working with Slade and that made her, in the words of Felicity, a super villain. Her interests had nothing to do with the company and everything to do with Slade's plan to destroy Oliver. I'd say she was straight up bad.

[kismet]

I think Isabel could have been sympathetic if they had wanted to write her that way. Her Russia stories were sad, but who knows how much she was playing OQ? The writers wanted her to be cold, calculating and evil - so her character never had a shot at being sympathetic. Her motivation for taking over the company were very suspect. Her being RQs former mistress & working with Slade to me did put her more securely in the villain column.

 

As much as I disliked Ray, he did buy the company through proper channels and did not want to liquidate the assets to destroy the company. Isabel never wanted the company to succeed she wanted to destroy it along with the Queens. Ray wanted to use the company & Felicity to build his suit. They both had selfish reasons, but at the end of the day, Ray wanted to do good and Isabel wanted to do bad. But honestly, the way they wrote Ray in s3a did make him seem wicked shady & dodgy that I was surprised when they told me he was definitely not a villain. Because I so had him pinned as a villain from his creepy eyes & staring at mysterious blueprint. I knew he wasn't because of comics, but BR was very good at convincing me that he just might be bad despite what the comics say.

[EmilyBettFan]

Felicity never stated towards Isabel that she didn't like her. She never outright at the beginning said anything as rude as what Isabel implied with Felicity and Oliver and "those short skirts."

[dtissagirl]

You know...I really don't think Isabel was so bad based on what we learned from the first half..ok she tried to take over QC. But is that so heinous...it clearly needed leadership and no one was stepping up.

 

Isabel did NOT want to run QC. That was made clear in text in episode 201. The only reason she stayed was because Oliver asked Walter for help and at the end of the episode Oliver and Isabel had each equal share. Isabel had no choice but to stay, but her original plan was to retain majority of stocks herself and liquidate the entire company.

 

 

Plus..Isabel could have simply had the mindset of it just being business...not like she was gonna fire everyone or anything. 

 

Yes she would have fired everyone. The text of the episode says so:

 

All the bad press after the Undertaking left Queen Consolidated ripe for a hostile takeover by Stellmoor International.

They've gutted every company they've taken over. Once they gobble up Queen Consolidated, 30,000 employees are going to be out of a job.

 

Plus, in the same episode, Moira told Oliver to NOT trust Isabel. Exact words: Do not trust that woman, Oliver. She is dangerous. That was written into the episode to reinforce the idea that Isabel had malicious intent.

[statsgirl]

You know...I really don't think Isabel was so bad based on what we learned from the first half..ok she tried to take over QC. But is that so heinous...it clearly needed leadership and no one was stepping up. Felicity judging her based on that...was ridiculous since Ray DID THE SAME THING. I enjoyed her talks with Oliver in Russia and the Christmas eps (I forget if it was The Scientist or 3 Ghosts)

I think this may be a sex difference but I thought Isabel was really Mean Girl from her first appearance until the end.  She did the kind of emotional manipulationg that girls do instead of just fighting it out in the schoolyard and which can be so much more hurtful.  I don't know what AK was thinking when he said they weren't sure if she was going to be good or bad because she lost me in episode 2x01.

 

I thought the talk during the Moira's party was a thinly vieled threat against Oliver and the Queens, and it was only because Oliver was so naive that he failed to pick up on it.

 

Felicity, who befriended Sara when Sara thought that she didn't deserve friendship (and when her own sister was throwing a wine glass at her) and who treated Moira with respect even after she knew what Moira had done, said about Isabel "Please don't make me take a cab with her".  There's a lot implied there about how Isabel treated Felicity, and it was reinforced earlier in the scene when Isabel said that the only reason Oliver brought Felicity along was to sleep with her because of her short skirts, and later told Oliver that all of QC thought Felicity only had her job because he was sleeping with her.   I don't know if it was true but to tell Oliver that is unprofessional and totally lacking in class.

 

Isabel deliberately waltzing out of Oliver's hotel room with her dress only half on so that Felicity was told that she had been having sex with Oliver, and then telling Felicity she can take the night off because Oliver's needs had been met? Pure Bitch.

 

It was a nice bit of directing how bouncy Felicity was getting on to the jet to fly to Russia, and how subdued she was at the end of the trip after the time spent with Isabel.