The Not So Merry...Supporting Cast

[statsgirl]

I agree it's a massive civil rights violation but IRL in the US today, people end up dead at the hands of police for minor things like failing to indicate a turn or even just being in the wrong place.  Reality is much worse than what Quentin did.

[AyChihuahua]

I agree it's a massive civil rights violation but IRL in the US today, people end up dead at the hands of police for minor things like failing to indicate a turn or even just being in the wrong place.  Reality is much worse than what Quentin did.

That is a difference of degree. A police officer conducting his duties is a representative of the state. That's why they're held to such a high standard. Violating that is disgusting, period. That it's happening all over and people are ending up dead IRL is one of the many reasons they shouldn't have written him doing that. Coupled with his other heinous crap and RANK hypocrisy, I genuinely want Quentin to die in a fire. He's grotesque.

Edited August 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Dinah believing Laurel that Quentin would die and "I can't lose someone again" I think of as another of the S3 idiotic decisions the show made for plot like Oliver protecting MM at all costs and even over Thea's objections, or everyone letting Laurel decide whether Quentin should be told or not, which led into Felicity making the voice modulator fake Sara's voice for Laurel.  If I forgive Felicity for that, I have to forgive Dinah for being a plot contrivance there too.

 

It's been a while since I've seen that scene with Laurel (what I chiefly remember is AK's acting) but IIRC she tried to stop Sara from going but Sara refused to stay because she was in love with Oliver and Dinah gave up because you can't stop a teenager from doing what she's determined to do.  Whether or not that's true, I think AK and MG believe it (their kids aren't teenagers yet).  Dinah did try to stop Sara though, and part of her self-flagellation after Sara's death and desperate attempts to find her on the other island was because she felt so guilty.

 

I thought she treated everyone reasonably in s1 when she thought Sara might be alive.  She even gave Quentin hope. The person I had problems with in those episodes was Laurel, who shut down her mother's hopes, called her father so he could do it too, got angry at him when he began to be swayed, and finally blind-sided her mother at CNRI in the cruelest way possible.

 

At the Dinner of Doom, Dinah thought it was just going to be a family dinner to celebrate Sara's return when Quentin started letting her know that he wanted her back again. At that point her only options were to either let him (and the girls) get their hopes up and tell him after dinner, or tell her family right then that she had moved on and was going to stay in Central City.

 

But what else could she do in terms of the season?  If Dinah told Quentin at Christmas, it would spoil the big finale, both for Laurel's storyline and the Hunt For The Arrow when Ra's came to town, a storyline that affected Roy too.   Did Laurel tell her that she was going out beating up people in Sara's place?  I can't remember.  If Laurel did tell her, then Dinah should have said something but I have the impression Laurel skipped over that part.

 

If exclude Dinah's return in 3x9, is she really so bad?. And even in that episode, she kept Laurel away from Oliver.

I see some of your points, I just don't agree with them. Perhaps her behavior is not classic narcissism. But it is definitely egocentric. I never said or wanted to imply that she was bad. Narcissism & self-absorption are character traits that I think help describe or give rationale to someone's actions. It does not necessarily justify or excuse behavior. It helps me to understand her character & motivations. I too live with narcissistic & egocentric people and it can be so challenging to deal with.

 

The Quentin Situation - The difference between DL/LL & FS is that I believe that it is 110% within character for both DL/LL to keep the secret from QL by choice. The majority of the choices they made in regards to QL, I believe they would do them again & perhaps feel that their actions/choices were justified. I can't forgive them because they really haven't shown any type of remorse or regret. While FS on the other hand helping with the modulator was completely written for plot & OOC. What DL/LL did to QL is nearly unforgivable & was more than just one moment/decision. What FS did was an in the moment quick decision to help a friend. That I can forgive a lot easier. I also think that FS if given the opportunity might have changed how she handled the situation.

 

Sara - I get what you are saying that a parent can not control a young adult. That is accurate in most cases. But she should have tried harder to stop her. Whether or not the gambit sunk, that choice to not fight harder to keep Sara in SC was going to rip apart that family. It wasn't just a date or quick getaway. It was a transoceanic yacht trip!! There was no way that trip was ever going to end well. It was always going to end in heartbreak & a shattered family. There are so many different ways she should have handled the discussion or tried to reach SL. And if she couldn't talk her out of it, then she should have called QL to also try to stop her. Honestly, I have no idea why the writers elected to retcon SL getting on the Gambit with DL's blessing because it makes everyone look worse. That being said, DL's previous characterizations have implied that it was not an OOC moment for her to allow SL to go off with her blessing. The writing choice was stupid, but I believe the conversation was in character for both DL & SL.

 

Dinner of Doom & S1 DL - I feel are more just examples of how her perception of life is more focused around her first & then her family second. Some of her behavior just felt more ego-centric & self-absorbed than I would have imagined. It seemed like she wasn't very involved in her living daughter's life for a long time. It seemed that she only came to town when she needed something from the 2 of them.

 

Gotta agree with people that bringing DL back for s3 was just an overall misstep. I don't know who's story she was supposed to help. But I don't feel like she made any character or storyline better. If she was brought to help soften LL, I think that was an epic fail because it was their interactions that made me more angry at LL's choices. It might have given insight into how LL got to be the way she is, but not in a way that makes me want to forgive her. 

 

Ultimately, I don't think DL is a bad person. Just like I don't think LL is a bad person. They are decent people that make bad choices and then dig themselves further into the hole by refusing change some of their behaviors. They are egocentric and in ways narcissistic. They see the world in relation to themselves first and everybody else falls into a lower orbit. But just because I can understand why they do some of the things they do does not mean that I will automatically forgive them for their actions. They need to make more amends before I forgive them for what they did to QL.

[BkWurm1]

That is a difference of degree. A police officer conducting his duties is a representative of the state. That's why they're held to such a high standard. Violating that is disgusting, period. That it's happening all over and people are ending up dead IRL is one of the many reasons they shouldn't have written him doing that. Coupled with his other heinous crap and RANK hypocrisy, I genuinely want Quentin to die in a fire. He's grotesque.

I still feel for the man. Except for taking a slug at Oliver while cuffed he was all talk. Yes he chased them down, but there was nothing illegal about it and I really think Quentin feeling the hypocrisy of his past actions is one of the reasons he was so angry. He was first furious at himself. He said some very hurtful things but I get why. Again, IRL he crossed a very heavy line with what he did to Oliver, in the world of Arrow it wasn't that awful. And you know Oliver would do everything in his power to make sure Captain Lance would not get in trouble for hitting him. I'm talking not only not pressing charges but full on denial that it ever happened.

[AyChihuahua]

Not just hypocrisy for his own actions, but for BOTH his daughters' actions. That is what makes me sick, because at that point, he'd obviously stopped helping them. Laurel had not. She was out there vigilante-ing all over the place the night before, he knew it, and didn't arrest her. Just Oliver.

And sure, Oliver was fine with Lance hitting him, because Oliver is a self-loathing idiot. That doesn't matter. Lots of criminals have self-esteem issues and would presume they deserve a whack, but that just does not matter. Our government doesn't operate that way. Punishment is not imposed by individual police officers. Letting it be leads to utter chaos. And Oliver could deny it happened as much as he wants, but I know it happened.

AND crowing about Roy's death to Oliver. Roy who Lance knew wasn't the Arrow, but was a tremendously good-hearted young man who risked his life every night to help people. Quentin rubbed that into Oliver's face, breaking Oliver's heart and using the death of a good and kind young man to do it.

Edited August 20, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[BkWurm1]

AND crowing about Roy's death to Oliver. Roy who Lance knew wasn't the Arrow, but was a tremendously good-hearted young man who risked his life every night to help people. Quentin rubbed that into Oliver's face, breaking Oliver's heart and using the death of a good and kind young man to do it.

Moved my reply to the Quentin Lance Thread.

Edited August 20, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

Im loving this conversation about Quentin. But he has his own thread, perhaps it should go there?

His behavior in end of s3 was quite a emotional & ethical quagmire. It had so many different facets. I sorta agree & disagree with so many of the points. I do hope he is on the path of redemption. I don't think his actions were as bad as MM or MQ and they both got to be redeemed/forgiven.

[BkWurm1]

Poor Quentin. I forgot he even had a thread. I'll copy and bring my last post over to it.

[lexicon]

Honestly I feel like Dinah's s3 appearance was meant to be a nod to the comics, in that it was almost a passing of the torch with her agreeing with LL's plans to make Sara's killer pay. Both the tone and tenor of the words she used to do were aggressive and she imo at least, seemed to be okay with and even advocating LL using more violent and/or less that strictly legal channels to get justice for Sara. So to my mind, that scene was the elder Dinah (first comic BC) giving her blessing for the younger, to become BC.   

[Starfish35]

It could have been. But my problem with that is it sets up a mission for Laurel that she is never going to be allowed to complete. I feel like it ends up undermining her, yet again.

It's like, on SGA, when

Torri Higginson was written out by her character being left behind and presumed dead. They then have a scene with the lead character, John Sheppard, promising to find her and bring her home. But it's a mission he's never allowed to complete within the narrative. We never even really see him taking steps to accomplish it. So the scene in retrospect is completely pointless to how the story plays out.

It's the same with this. Because of the writers' plans for Malcolm, Laurel is never going to be allowed to accomplish the task of bringing her sister's killer to justice, and to take it further, we never actually see her doing anything to find Sara's killer until Thea comes and drops the whole story in her lap. So.....in retrospect the scene is completely pointless IMO.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

The thing is they could've had Laurel heavily involved in looking for her sister's killer, they choose not to. Instead the story Arrow showed on screen  was. Laurel is sad that her sister died again, got angry and started beating people up pretending it was in the name of her sister, got some training, became besties with Sara's girlfriend Nyssa, and beat more people up. Was Laurel stealing Sara's hero identity supposed to be Laurel getting "justice" for her sister? 

 

As for Dinah Lance she is the only character more useless than Laurel to the narrative. She was all over looking for Sara when she didn't believe she was dead, then when Sara came back she barely even said two words to her. 

[statsgirl]

Because I like Dinah.......  I even re-watched these scenes. They are both incredibly painful.

 

The scene from Salvation where she tells Laurel and Quentin that she saw Sara packing to go on the boat:

 

What struck me on rewatch was that she told Sara not to go because she shouldn't do that to Laurel, but Sara replied that she was in love and was going to follow her heart as Dinah had told her that she once did.  At this point, Dinah looks over at Quentin and I got the impression that Dinah had married young* and against her parents' wishes this blue collar beat cop.  (I think this is something Alex Kingston and Paul Blackthorne would have worked out together because I can't imagine the EPs putting that much effort into her backstory.)  "I let her go, I killed my daughter (breaks down) I killed her, I'm so sorry Quentin, I'm so sorry Quentin, I killed our baby..."

 

Should she have tried harder to stop Sara?  Probably.  But I got the feeling from her that she was the "easy" parent while Quentin was the disciplinarian.  Of course it was going to blow up   But excluding knowing that the ship was going to go down, she may have thought that if she stopped Sara from going on the trip, Sara was going to do something else to cause the same thing.  After all, Sara was the wild child, the one who had been arrested for shoplifting and that Quentin had to get her off of.

 

Quentin blamed Oliver for what happened, Laurel blamed Oliver and Sara, and Dinah blamed herself.

 

The Dinner From Hell:

 

Oliver asks about her teaching, Dinah replies that she's teaching at Central City University.  Quentin immediately says "you can probably give them notice." Dinah asks why would she do that, Quentin replies "You're going to come back to Starling, right?"  She says she's not, he says "Sara's back", she replies she has a job there, he pushes that there are jobs in Starling City at which point she says she's got "someone" in Central City. Everyone looks pained, we all feel terribly sorry for Quentin who assumed he and Dinah would get back together, and Laurel figures out that Sara and Oliver are together.

 

I don't know how much she was involved in Laurel's life but I'm not going to put all that on Dinah. Laurel didn't even know her mother was in a new relationship

 

Dinah's visit in s3 was a horrible mess. I will say in her defense though that when Quentin called to say that Laurel could use a visit from her mother, she came.

 

*Another reason I think Dinah married young was that she was a sessional teacher rather than a tenured prof which would have been more likely if she had spent the last 30 years as an academic.

[Sakura12]

Maybe Dinah's season 3 appearance would've made more sense if we saw her actually talking to Sara after she came back. She so sure Sara was alive, then when she was, she stops caring? Did she even speak to Sara after finding her alive? 

 

With the discussion of what makes Quentin and Laurel similar, they both like to live in fantasy worlds where everything is perfect. Quentin figured since Sara was back that everything would go back the way it was. When he saw first hand that Sara wasn't the same girl that left on that boat. I don't think anyone in Sara's family got that or cared. Laurel treated her like she was the same as well, until she saw that Sara had as many scars as Oliver covering her body. 

 

I think Quentin and Dinah both went easy on Sara because she was the baby of the family. I think Laurel even mentioned that they let her get away with everything because she's Sara. 

[AyChihuahua]

It was weird that neither parent went with Sara when she left after being yelled at by Laurel (the first time).  I think if the daughter I'd thought was dead for six+ years turned up alive, and my other daughter screamed at her until she left, I'd be going with the daughter I'd only had back from the dead for like an hour, not staying with the daughter who did the screaming.

[Starfish35]

^I have thought that many times.

[statsgirl]

Not going after Sara ... that's one of the things that made me think that Laurel was the favoured child and they didn't want to upset her.  Sometimes it was almost like Dinah was afraid of Laurel.  Not physically, but afraid of making Laurel angry.

[manbearpig]

I think in that case the writers probably didn't want anything to interfere with their Oliver/Sara cliffhanger, and just did whatever they could to isolate Sara to end the episode a certain way.

[statsgirl]

That's probably right, that they didn't want anything to interfere with the (shock!) lunge at the end of the episode.

 

But it feels wrong that neither Dinah nor Quentin told Laurel she was behaving badly towards Sara, newly returned from the dead.  IIRC, except for Quentin trying to get her to a meeting, neither Dinah nor Quentin laid the law down on Laurel until the Sara's death reveal. And even then, Laurel's speech to Quentin in his office ('we know  you're going to talk to me again so just it it over with') suggests neither of them was strong on parenting either girl.

[AyChihuahua]

Oh yeah, it was definitely for out-of-show shocker reasons. I just loathe out-of-show reasons for in-show actions. Usually I don't even notice them, but with Arrow all the seams are really, really showing now.

[Sakura12]

Maybe it was all in Laurel's head again that Sara was the favored one. Although I still think Sara was a daddy's girl. Quentin seems to favor her. 

 

And yes they needed to have Sara and Oliver feel isolated and/or angry at their family so they could jump each other. Not being an Olicity shipper, I didn't care that they did (also gave no fucks about Laurel at all), but it would've made more sense if they hooked up on the island while Slade and Shado had a thing. Then Oliver looking like he saved his girlfriend over Shado would've been slightly better motivation for Slade's rage. 

 

Of course from Manu's one interview I kind of wanted to see Slade and Sara hook up on the island. 

[BkWurm1]

And yes they needed to have Sara and Oliver feel isolated and/or angry at their family so they could jump each other. Not being an Olicity shipper, I didn't care that they did (also gave no fucks about Laurel at all), but it would've made more sense if they hooked up on the island while Slade and Shado had a thing. Then Oliver looking like he saved his girlfriend over Shado would've been slightly better motivation for Slade's rage. 

 

I wasn't that surprised or dismayed about the lunge. It fit the timing of the characters IMO, but I did not like that Oliver's behavior made it look like what Felicity had been worrying about in that very episode - losing him - was coming true.  I didn't resent Sara for getting in a relationship with Oliver but I resented how little space seemed left for the other characters to interact with each other.

 

Maybe it was all in Laurel's head again that Sara was the favored one. Although I still think Sara was a daddy's girl. Quentin seems to favor her.

 

I have a feeling that Sara despite her "wild" ways was just a bit easier to love than Laurel.  Laurel was just a little too high strung to make it easy to relax around her.   She probably is the one that was constantly being praised by her parents and used as a good example and probably rewarded with their trust and freedom.  So in one way Laurel would be the favored one.  But Sara was the baby.  She probably got snuggles on the coach and playful cooking sessions with Dad or  the one her parents would hang with on the porch telling her stories about their life.  Sara broke rules, got punished, but I don't think people stayed mad at her, which Laurel probably saw as Sara getting away with everything. 

Edited August 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Sakura12]

I definitely agree, Sara is a more friendly person in general. Even after going through all that trauma, she was still nice and respectful toward others. While Laurel always seems to have a high and mighty attitude when she meets people. 

 

I think that's why Felicity liked her even when she started dating Oliver. Sara was this badass warrior woman but she never acted like she was better than Felicity. And knowing Sara she probably thought Felicity was better than her, at least as a person. That's why Felicity saying that Sara had no light in her really pissed me off. (I know that was the writers trying to prop up their failed character) it was still unnecessary and not something Felicity ever would've said about Sara. 

[AyChihuahua]

I had no problem with Sara and Oliver getting together, but yeah, the timing re Felicity was unfortunate, and for several episodes afterwards Oliver barely interacted with either Felicity or Diggle. It was all for plot and bc I think the EPs were temporarily enamored of Sara, but it would probably cause some problems in team dynamics if the writers hadn't just pretty much ignored actual human emotional reactions after 2.14.

Laurel was cheated on, publicly humiliated, and her sister and bf died, and she turned into a rage monster. Sara was nearly drowned, nearly gang-raped, Stockholmed/forced to witness severe torture for a year, nearly killed a bunch of times, nearly drowned again, then ended up in the LOA, which I feel comfortable has less-than-pleasant training methods, made into an assassin...and she turned into a sweet friendly girl I'd love to have a beer with.

[kismet]

I have nothing against Nyssa. In fact I like her as a recurring character. But I don't understand all these articles & wishlists wanting to see more of Nyssa. KL is awesome and she is a kick ass fighter. But I don't need to see weekly installments of her journey. The cast already feels so big, I just don't want another character to either take up time or be j***** a decent story.

Plus I already found that they had trouble organically including Nyssa when she was no longer part of LoA. Part of the reason I think they had the wedding was to actually give her something to do. She works as someone coming in to stir up trouble with LOA or someone to help save TA when they need additional fighters. But other than that I can't see her having a role in SC that makes sense and doesn't waste her or our time.

Now if they can figure out something interesting between her & MM than perhaps it might work to give them both a story arc. Because I honestly don't see Arrow finding a way to make the 2 of them & LoA work in this new season.

Edited August 29, 2015 by kismet

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yeah, I like Nyssa, too, and wouldn't mind having her drop by now and again but I got the distinct feeling last year that, beyond the LOA storyline, she was being brought back so Laurel can have scenes with people other than her father since her "integration" into Team Arrow wasn't quite going well. People like Nyssa. People like Laurel with Nyssa so let's keep bringing Nyssa back and hopefully, eventually more people will like Laurel -- seems to be the thinking of TPTB.

[statsgirl]

I'd like Nyssa to keep being recurring. But if she's a regular, there's not much need for Laurel.

[Sakura12]

I would've like to have seen more of Nyssa, with her girlfriend Sara. Nyssa had more meaningful scenes with because comics, then because comics had with her own sister. Instead of showing us a LGBT couple, Nyssa became Laurel's gay best friend. I don't care if they nice scenes together, Nyssa was just another of Sara's story that was handed to Laurel.

 

I guess I could take it like all of because comics story revolves around Sara, when Sara can exist completely without Laurel in her storylines. Showcasing again how useless because comics is.   

[kismet]

I think the fern, the wig, the salmon and the tire all need their own webseries

You forgot the red pen... I feel like with retirement of Starling city... perhaps something with Starling should join them like that Starling's hat or the Welcome to Starling city sign.

 

But this is totally a webseries I could get behind. Perhaps they band together to fight against the deadly pillows & candles from NP. Or maybe we'll have a new villainous prop for them to conquer. I feel like DD is a tie & suit man, so maybe there will be some vicious cuff links to protect the people of Star(ling) city from.

[kismet]

 

 

 

 

 

-- JB said that he wants a love interest for Malcolm. MN interjected that in his back story as Ra's al Ghul, "we were lovers."

See now I feel vindicated in a little bit that my outta the box speculation about MM & Ras running off to get married was not completely insane. Oh the fun we had during the who's getting married speculation game, that still ended all wrong.

 

 

Apparently MN and I have similar head canon. :) Shame the writers plotified his story arc. I actually liked some of his performances. But the overall story was such crap.

 

 

It might explain why he was so adamant about the Nyssa wedding despite her sexuality & his extreme discontent with her relationship with SL. A lot of hatred/bullying/bias is based in a self-hatred of something in yourself that you see in other people (think Karofsky's character in GLEE).

 

It also explains his little man-crush / wine & dine recruitment of OQ to the LoA.

Edited September 8, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

Aww. As they're all at the Diggle's house, I hope this means the BROTP is being repaired. I need it. 

This quote was in reference to a pic with DS. I hope that DS plays a role in helping to repair the BROTP of OQ & Dig. It would be nice to see her character bond more with the crew in a deeper way. It would also be nice to have a positive maternal influence on the show again. Both MQ & DS were not perfect, but they loved their children - it's always nice to be remembered of that. MQ is more of a mixed bag, but I feel like she tried to be a positive influence despite her personal mistakes.

 

What I love about Donna Smoak is she is the perfect example or what you see is not always what you think, but in the most positive way. A lot of FS's emotional intelligence & intuition I believe come from DS. She is able to read & understand people without much effort, that is an underrated talent to have. She might have been to busy trying to support FS on one salary and maybe wasn't able to spend as much time with her. But she loved her daughter & prioritized her happiness over her own it seems, even if she didn't verbalize that properly. She may dress flashy, be unable to send a text & may be a babbler but she is pure heart with a steel backbone.

 

It's also one of the reasons I am intrigued about FS's father because as much as I can see DS falling for a bad guy, I can't see her falling for someone purely evil. I also think she is far more intelligent & street savvy than people give her credit for. How they play out the paternity of FS, I hope does justice to both ladies.

[statsgirl]

Donna seems like a basically good person, optimistic and loving, so I can't see her falling for someone as evil as we have been led to believe DD is unless he was faking it.  And that again leads to the question of why would he bother faking it for 7 years to settle down with a waitress from Las Vegas?

 

As well as working 60 hours a week in 6" heels to support herself and her daughter and having little time to spend with Felicity, it seems that Donna was intimidated by her daughter's intelligence.  In 3x05 she talked about feeling left out when Felicity was bonding with her father.  It's too bad because while Donna doesn't have book smarts, she sure seems to have streets ones.

Edited September 15, 2015 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

The CW's S2 character bio card for Slade Wilson...

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.307038822767490.1073741835.104137579724283&type=3

[tv echo]

Hmm... Ray's going to be part of another love triangle on LoT - at least temporarily (spoilers!):
https://tvline.com/2015/09/23/legends-of-tomorrow-stephanie-corneliussen-cast-valentina-vostok/

[slayer2]

Yaaaay! Thank you! I had heard MG saying in an interview (over the summer) that he had a great story arc for The Huntress for season 4. Nothing would make me happier I am such a fan of this actress and character. I couldn't quite pinpoint my Oliver/Helena obsession until today when I realized that part of it is how much they remind me Faith and Angel.

[Angel12d]

Is it confirmed that she's coming back? I really liked Helena. 

[Morrigan2575]

No, it's not confirmed.

[calliope1975]

I wasn't a fan of the character or JDG in her first appearance, but I really liked that last scene with Helena and Oliver at the police station. I'm a big fan of the character in the comics, so I'd like to see her come back a bit redeemed. Keep the edge but have her help the good guys now. 

[Angel12d]

Ah. That's a shame. I liked her. Thought she had good chemistry with Oliver. Not something I wanted to see longterm but I definitely saw why they had a thing. 

 

I actually think she was on the way to being redeemed in the 2.5 comics, if I remember correctly? She helped Oliver and Roy save Felicity and could have run away or gone back to prison and she chose to go back to prison to pay for her crimes. So that's a start.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Angel12d

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, Helena seemed to have turned the crazy corner and is set up to be more help than hindrance.  Maybe there wouldn't be space for her story on Arrow but with the expanded universe, I'd think they could find a fun way to use her elsewhere. 

[Angel12d]

She's kind of the perfect character to come back for an episode or two and then leave again. 

[kismet]

First question - How did we manage to get a new thread?

 

I really did like the Huntress - but I think she is better off just guest starring for a few eps (maybe a mini arc) for multiple seasons. I don't want to see her long term on the show because I don't think they can maximize what her character's potential is. She can be crazy. She can be bad. She can be morally grey. She can be good. She can be good for only 1 ep & then return to her bad ways. She can be tragic. She can be redeemed. Or her character is hopeless. But if they make her a permanent character on the show it will limit what they can do because they will have to pretzel her to fit their plot. She will become what happened to MM in s3, potential wasted to fit plot.

[Primal Slayer]

She is basically the lesser cool version of Faith (BTVS) but I want to see her come back and have a redemption arc. I don't know why they went so overboard with the character and had her jailed in season 2 with everyone knowing who she was though, it seemed really pointless and there was no reason to continue to have her gear up and wear a mask at that point.

 

Though I don't see her coming back until 2nd half of S4 if at all this season.

[BkWurm1]

Maybe they can discover that occasionally Roy Harper also liked to dress up like a woman and fight crime, thus absolving Helena of Huntress's supposed crimes. 

[Primal Slayer]

Or she could always come back as the Blue Huntress and everyone saying "new color, must not be Helena!"

[kismet]

Frankly her time in jail might have given her new contacts and connections. I'm glad they sent her to jail, I mean somebody had to held accountable for their crimes on this show. But we never saw her convicted of her crimes, so she might have never made it to prison. She might have had a very good lawyer, or struck some deal to get her out. And even if she did serve some time, just more of an opportunity to make connections. She wouldn't be the first ex-con to either return to crime making or crime fighting.

[Primal Slayer]

We see her in jail in the 2.5 comics. She is broken out to help Oliver save Felicity. Oliver gives her the option of running or going back to jail and she chooses jail.

 

But as far as her returning to fighting crime, unless they pull a MM, or have her wear a face mask, she would be targeted by the cops so fast if they caught news of her suiting up again.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[BkWurm1]

Given that she is serving a sentence presumably for murder, to get her out while Arrow is still on the air, they are going to have to cut Helena some kind of a deal. Maybe the Argus could do a BoP variation that is put together more like the Suicide Squad but perhaps without the messy bomb in the brain.  (If Lyla is running Argus, it's a kindler gentler place.  They'll just shoot you if you get out of line, not blow your spine out. )   

We see her in jail in the 2.5 comics. She is broken out to help Oliver save Felicity. Oliver gives her the option of running or going back to jail and she chooses jail.

 

Maybe she can pull a River Song and just break in and out of jail at her whim. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just having her operate in Star City with everyone knowing who she is would be a hard task to do.

 

But I wouldn't be surprised with this show if they did pull a River Song or any of it.

[Morrigan2575]

Her father was in the mob. Maybe she could get a deal with the Feds for information on her father's business partners.

Honestly, it's not like the show is going to think too hard on a realistic answer.

[slayer2]

 

First question - How did we manage to get a new thread?

 

 I asked really nicely. :) because she's my favourite character in the Arrowverse. I was reading up on comic Helena Bertinelli and they said something about her joining a spy organization so maybe they could have her come out of jail with something like that? I'm not sure if they are able to visit Suicide Squad as much with the movie coming out (maybe someone else can fill me in on that) but if they don't go that route she allegedly worked for Spynal (?) in the comics or they could have her breaking out of jail at will a la Faith in the Angel arc. I'm here for an arc that gives me at least two Arrow episodes with her so I can ship my ship and then carries her over to LoT for an episode or two to lay the groundwork for a future Birds of Prey union with Sara. I know their relationship is cantankerous at best with them both trying very hard to kill each other but that could make for a very entertaining relationship. I would burst into a million happy bubbles for a Huntress Arrow/LoT crossover.

Edited September 28, 2015 by slayer2