S05.E10: The Flash & The Furious

[Trini]

Quote

While Nora grapples with the revelation that Thawne (Tom Cavanagh) killed her grandmother, Team Flash must stop the formidable team-up of a newly sprung from jail Weather Witch (guest star Reina Hardesty) and Silver Ghost (guest star Gabrielle Walsh), a new meta-tech villain who can control engines and motorized technology. Meanwhile, Caitlin and Cisco discuss creating a meta-human cure.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Kelly Wheeler & Sterling Gates.

Airdate: 1/15/2019.

[Trini]

Clip:

[scarynikki12]

Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned.

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so the whole Cisco subplot was...really really weird, I'm gonna be honest. I thought it was kind of misplaced and felt like it was brought out of nowhere. It wasn't bad, per say, but it could have been written so much better without making Cisco look like an ass. That's not to say I didn't partially agree with Cisco's point, but they went out of their way to make Cisco take the entire other side instead of straddling the middle. Par on course for the show, of course, to make a character choose one extreme or the other for one episode. Like Barry's inability to keep his secret identity secret and trusting all villains not named Thawne, Cisco apparently wants to cure ALL metas instead of maybe just the ones that can't control their powers or are trying to harm people. 

I agree with creating a meta-human cure. What Cisco was trying to initially point out is even correct; Thawne created metas against their will and some turned really, really bad. Cisco wanting to provide a cure makes sense. It will allow some control over the crime rate in the city, or at least depower the criminals with powers so they're on more even ground with the cops in the city. But then the show had Cisco go "ALL METAS MUST BE DESTROYED SO I CAN HAVE A FAMILY" which was a really odd route to take. And all of this so Caitlin and Killer Frost could have their moment to point out how awesome they are now that Cailtin's accepted the evil KF in her and how KF has been neutered and her past actions forgotten like it was Flashpointed away. No, show. I'm NOT going to forget that Killer Frost was initially brought on as an evil persona who did some evil shit to the team. I'm not going to handwave it because they want Killer Frost on the team more than Caitlin. 

So, Grant Gustin must have had a break in filming since he didn't really do anything in this episode. It did allow for some nice Iris/Nora moments, but I still find Nora irritating in terms of her characterization. They honestly should have had her be a teenager instead of being in her late twenties. Then I think she'd be more relatable with the audience. Instead, she seems extremely stunted and I LOATHE that they're basically saying it's all because of Future Iris. Screw you, show, for making Future Iris look like a villain. 

Unfortunately, this also led to Nora going back to Thawne, which....bleh. She's getting manipulated which is no damn surprise. This is only making me slowly like Sherloque because he is catching on to Nora and her dumbassery. 

I want to like Nora, as well. I think she had some true potential. But her teenage-like personality in her late twenties isn't appealing to me. 

The ones who wrote this episode are obvious fans of Legends of Tomorrow, or at least Mick and Snart because both got mentions! Mick's book and E1 Leonard's redemption! Woohoo! 

[SimoneS]

So Thawne is imprisoned at Star Labs? Nora is a bigger fool than I thought.

I couldn't believe that those words about Thawne came out of Barry's mouth. I am now convinced that Helbing has officially lost his freaking mind.  This is how he tries to rationalize Nora working with the man who murdered her grandmother? Unfreakingbelievable! Also, why wasn't Barry suspicious when Nora brought up Thawne? It was so odd.

I hate this meta-cure story for Cisco. He deserves a better story. I hope that there is a pay off down the line.  

That really nice car (the Lamborghini not the Challenger) was the one redeeming part of the meta of the week.

I hate Sherloque's accent, but at least he has a brain unlike the rest of them.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS
Turns out that Thawne was not imprisoned at Star Labs.

[BeautifulFlower]

I'm intrigued about that countdown clock in Thawne's prison. Was Thawne sentence to death and that's how long until he is executed or something?

[miasth]

Barry reading and enjoying Mick's book was hilarious.

Cisco's cure has a high possibility of disaster.  The ground rules he and Caitlin set is fine as long as they remain in control of the cure. 
Nora....I am starting to struggle with liking this character.  She just goes from 0 to 100 and refuses to listen still.  I get she was feeling guilt over working with Thawne, but as usual she lashes out and stubbornly refuses to see a different point of view. Then she goes back to Thawne after getting advice from Barry who of course probably would have said something different if he truly knew what was going on. 

Sherloque is still annoying, but I am glad he has gotten wise to Nora.  

Killer Frost is back and once again dispensing advice.  I guess she is bad cop to Caitlin's good cop.  I wish the writers would just merge Caitlin and Killer Frost into one personality.

[Lantern7]

Welcome back, show! Now . . . why are you trying to hurt me?!?

Seriously, with Nora not believing in redemption, I kinda wanted Iris to look into getting her "tubes tied." I don't think the way to make Nora likable is to make her a bitch so that she can overcome that.

Silver Ghost + Tech-infused ARGUSmobile = "Brand New Day"-era Spider-Man bad guy Overdrive? Neat premise. Also interesting that Weather Witch wants redemption, and maybe her Skeletor weather staff influences her. Also, she can convert herself and Silver Ghost into energy for quick getways.

Yeah, Cisco thinking of "the cure" seems . . . yeesh. Like we don't have enough of that in play on The Gifted. Of course, Killer Frost would oppose the idea. Of course she/Caitlin and Cisco would be at odds. Of course they'd make up. I kinda that they're a different gender duo where you don't feel like "shipping" them. Well, I don't.

No clue about Thrawne. No clue about Sherloque. Also no clue how this Gideon can't differentiate between all the Wellses.

Mick got his book published. Good for him. Or maybe that Gideon made up physical copies for friends and family.

[bettername2come]

Cisco and Caitlin's friendship continues to be something they don't screw up and some of Danielle Panabaker's best work. I don't understand exactly what their motivation for it at this time is. I originally thought they'd had Cisco's powers sidelined because they were worried he'd become too powerful or budget cuts or something. I can see Cisco being overwhelmed by his powers because we saw that when he first got them. I feel like this is going to tie into the future storyline where Iris blocked Nora's powers. Also, the fact that the trial explicitly called things "meta-crimes" makes me think that "giving people a choice" line isn't going to lead anywhere they intend. Some metas are going to have their powers blocked and are we going to have to deal with the kinds of storylines aliens have been getting on Supergirl? Because I've started to grow tired of that and I can't handle it on multiple shows.

Look, whatever faith I had in Eobard Thawne dissipated when he worked with the Nazis. Can someone tell Nora he worked with Nazis? 

I loved that they said the car was from Wayne Tech. There's some Batmobile technology involved there. 

So, the Legends won't come home for crossover shenanigans, but they'll visit to drop off Mick's book? That's so Legend - wait for it - dary.

[SimoneS]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I want to like Nora, as well. I think she had some true potential. But her teenage-like personality in her late twenties isn't appealing to me. 

The characterization of Nora has turned out to be a huge FAIL. They are trying to sell us that a woman in her late twenties raised by a cold and closed off mother is so naive that she believes that her father's worse enemy, the man responsible for his disappearance, with less than one hour to live (I presume that he is on deathrow) for terrible crimes would want to help her save her father. How could Nora possibly trust or believe Thawne? Clearly Thawne is really attempting to save himself. If he succeeds in wiping this version of Nora out of existence, then Barry and Iris will have caught a lucky break at a do over.

[Primal Slayer]

I really wish they hadnt used the TC version of Thawne. He is good at it but I think i'd rather have Matt back.

Cisco suddenly being fine with not having powers and wanting to find a cure really has come out of left field. Him having powers hasnt made him a target, him deciding to fight crime has, This would've been a much better plot for Caitlin before the whole "Killer Frost is my bff" storyline came about.

Since this show kind of ruined The Flash's OG rogues, I would love a younger generation taking their place.

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Since this show kind of ruined The Flash's OG rogues, I would love a younger generation taking their place.

The Rogues and Snart mentions it made me wonder if they are creating replacements for Legends in an attempt to reboot and save that show or maybe Berlanti is creating for another show with these new Rogues.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[scarynikki12]

25 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

So, the Legends won't come home for crossover shenanigans, but they'll visit to drop off Mick's book? That's so Legend - wait for it - dary.

You know they gleefully went around handing out the books as soon as they were bound. No way they let everyone miss out on Mick’s well written smut. 

I’m guessing the countdown clock is for Thawne’s execution but he’s going to escape instead. 

[Commando Cody]

I'm half way through the episode and all that comes to mind is, who wrote this crap?

Really? He left court to go after a Lamborghini?

13 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Clearly Thawne is really attempting to save himself. If he succeeds in wiping this version of Nora out of existence, then Barry and Iris will have caught a lucky break at a do over.

It would be a lucky break for all of us. 

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I'm intrigued about that countdown clock in Thawne's prison. Was Thawne sentence to death and that's how long until he is executed or something?

I think who captured and put Thawne there is the more intriguing part of the story. I have several guesses, but it goes into a comic book discussion so I won't go there. I do think that it is safe to speculate about who is planning to execute him if that is indeed what is occurring. It is odd that Thawne is imprisoned in StarLabs and not at Iron Heights or a ARGUS facility although this could just be because they didn't want to spend money on building a new set. So who is going to execute him? ARGUS? The authorities? What is the metal jacket thingy that he is wearing? A device to dampen his powers? Maybe Cisco and Caitlin were successful in creating the meta-human cure and the clock is really counting down to when Thawne will be given the cure to take away his powers. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS
Thawne was not imprisoned at Star Labs.

[tennisgurl]

The highlight of the episode was definately Barry getting super into Micks book, and the conversation he had with Nora about how people can change, and Snarts redemption. Mick got his book published! And its good! And the Legends are ruining around distributing his book to their friends! I picture them zipping around through time and space to make sure that EVERYONE they know gets a copy! Even when they arent on screen, I love the Legends so damn much. And I loved the shout out to Snart and his and Barry's relationship. Grant did a great job in that scene. And its still nice seeing Iris and Nora getting along, and Iris being a good mom despite the weirdness. 

Unfortunately, that also leads to Nora stupidly trusting actual sociopath Thawne, the guy who killed her grandmother and sent her grandfather to jail, all to traumatize her father, just because he was a jealous asshole. There are certainly some people who can be redeemed, and there are some people that have done so many evil things, especially to people you love, that you just cant deal with them anymore. Why the hell is Nora possibly working with this guy?! How does she not know what all he did? What the hell was in that Flash museum anyway?! She just acts like such a child, she comes across as a teenager, not a woman in her twenties who is a CSI and a superhero. I've really tried with Nora, and the actress is doing her best, but they are REALLY making her shady and stupid with Thawne. Its great to see the good in people, or to give people a second chance, but this is ridiculous. HE WORKED WITH THE NAZIS!!!!!

I have no clue what is going on with the Cisco plot, its so random, I actually wondered if I missed an episode. Really, this would have made way more sense if it happened a few seasons ago, when he got his powers and it was giving me violent headaches and horrible visions and had no idea what was going on. Now, he has pretty good control over his powers, and its not like anyone died on him recently, so what IS this? And why do they have him immediately going all "we will cure ALL the metas" all of the sudden? Really, having a cure isnt a terrible thing in and of itself. There are people who went mad with power and hurt people and themselves, people who were always awful and became worse with powers, and people like Fallout, who he mentioned, whos powers messed up their lives and they couldn't control. But, whenever these kinds of "cure for superpowers" stories start, its always super black and white. No one should want to get rid of their powers because the powers are part of them (even if their powers are impossible to control and have ruined their life, or they are using their powers to hurt people), and anyone who wants to create a cure is an evil power racist who wants to get rid of all people with powers because they're an abomination or some shit. If this is them trying to turn Cisco dark or into a mad scientist, I am gonna be super pissed. I mean, Cisco loves being a superhero, has ever since he got his power sunder control. Its just so...what? 

It did lead to some nice Caitlin and Cisco stuff, which is usually when Caitlin most shines. They haven't managed to mess that relationship up at least. 

Sherloque is annoying, but at least he is starting to get onto Nora.

Edited January 16, 2019 by tennisgurl

[ruby24]

This episode was boring af.

[catrice2]

43 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

This episode was boring af.

I came here to post the same thing....glad I am not alone.  Nora is still annoying......

[Trini]

Now I know why no one was even talking about the car thief subplot - meeeeehhhhh. Dumbest part (out of a LOT dumb stuff): ::Silver Ghost salutes:: - "She's definitely military!" Oy.

So this was the 'Barry-lite' episode to Grant a break from crossover. That's fine; but they way they had Barry end up in the Pipeline was dumb. He never should have left the courtroom. Really? Two speedsters needed for a carjacking?

So Joe's in Tibet with Wally? And a baby?? Okay, show. I liked that they remembered Joe, Wally, and Jenna exist; but I'd love it if we actually got to see them, the whole West family together.

Liked the little reference to the crossover, but that only highlighted for me that Nora was a part of it.

Also liked seeing Cecile, and her back at her job again.

Gideon couldn't translate the time language? It's amazing the things she can and can't do at different times.

The "argument" between Cisco/Catlin/KF was just really dumb for me because I'm pretty sure they were all on the same side. Cisco never said he was going to cure everyone or give it people against their will. But this subplot needed padding, I guess. A metahuman cure would be very useful in some cases. Also, they already made a cure at the end of Season 3, but I guess they want us to forget that.

Cisco wanting to get rid of his powers for a "normal" life is just out of nowhere. Like mentioned above, they had to have everyone take up the most extreme positions to show both sides of an argument. ...

It was the same thing with Iris and Nora about Weather Witch.

 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I couldn't believe that those words about Thawne came out of Barry's mouth. I am now convinced that Helbing has officially lost his freaking mind.  This is how he tries to rationalize Nora working with the man who murdered her grandmother? Unfreakingbelievable! Also, why wasn't Barry suspicious when Nora brought up Thawne? It was so odd.

Yep. If there is one person for Barry Allen to go "No, #$@&% THAT guy!", it's Eobard Thawne. And that better be his answer when he finds out about this mess with Nora and Thawne.

So what exactly is Thawne helping Nora with? In any case, it's stupid of her to trust him.

I need Present Team Flash to send a message to Future Team Flash that they need to watch this speedster child.

 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The Rogues and Snart mentions it made me wonder if they are creating replacements for Legends in an attempt to reboot and save that show or maybe Berlanti is creating for another show with these new Rogues.

He's not making a new show; but Helbing had mentioned (at Comic Con, I think) that they were going to do a younger version of the Rogues. I just didn't think that "I'm creating Young Rogues" would be a line on the show! But speaking of, looks like Spyn/Spencer will be joining them at some point.

[adora721]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

The "argument" between Cisco/Catlin/KF was just really dumb for me because I'm pretty sure they were all on the same side. Cisco never said he was going to cure everyone or give it people against their will. But this subplot needed padding, I guess. A metahuman cure would be very useful in some cases. Also, they already made a cure at the end of Season 3, but I guess they want us to forget that.

Please refresh my memory because Caitlin's Killer Frost origin keeps changing.  I thought that the most current origin story states that there isn't any dark matter in Caitlin. She's genetically a meta NOT created by dark matter. She was created by a Dark Vader (Dark Father) :) LOL. Therefore, Killer Frost has no reason to fear a cure based on removing dark matter. Why is she angry then?

[BeautifulFlower]

3 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Please refresh my memory because Caitlin's Killer Frost origin keeps changing.  I thought that the most current origin story states that there isn't any dark matter in Caitlin. She's genetically a meta NOT created by dark matter. She was created by a Dark Vader (Dark Father) :) LOL. Therefore, Killer Frost has no reason to fear a cure based on removing dark matter. Why is she angry then?

Nothing with Killer Frost makes sense. My reaction doing the argument was "why does Killer Frost care? The cure has nothing to do with you?"

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I think who captured and put Thawne there is the more intriguing part of the story. I have several guesses, but it goes into a comic book discussion so I won't go there. I do think that it is safe to speculate about who is planning to execute him if that is indeed what is occurring. It is odd that Thawne is imprisoned in StarLabs and not at Iron Heights or a ARGUS facility although this could just be because they didn't want to spend money on building a new set. So who is going to execute him? ARGUS? The authorities? What is the metal jacket thingy that he is wearing? A device to dampen his powers? Maybe Cisco and Caitlin were successful in creating the meta-human cure and the clock is really counting down to when Thawne will be given the cure to take away his powers. 

Where is everybody getting Thawne is prisoned at Star Labs from? They've shown the outside of it and it's clearly not Star Labs.

[Brinny]

Wait, so exactly who are the West-Allens telling everyone that Nora is? Barry submitted CSI paperwork for some girl who just happens to have the same last name as Joe? So, there's an actual record of a Nora West (I guess "Nora" is debatable, but she was referred to "Ms. West" on the stand) just hanging around? WTF, guys? I know they had Wally explain fixed and soft points and all of that, but this is ridiculous. 

I also really wish the show would lay off the courtroom drama. It's horribly written. And Berlanti used to be a lawyer, no*? Why is all the legal stuff so awful? Why do they make Cecile constantly look bad at her job? She knows that as the district attorney she can ASK for a lighter sentence, right? But that she would still need a conviction to do that, so why was she sabotaging her case? I like Cecile, but every time they make her lawyer, I just can't watch. 

33 minutes ago, Trini said:

Yep. If there is one person for Barry Allen to go "No, #$@&% THAT guy!", it's Eobard Thawne. And that better be his answer when he finds out about this mess with Nora and Thawne.

YEP. SO MUCH OF THIS. Like I know Barry is a precious little muffin who just sees the good in everyone, but his answer to Nora's question should have been, "Nah. Not that guy. He's a trash human. Always will be. Believe in anyone else, Nora, but not that dude."

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The characterization of Nora has turned out to be a huge FAIL. They are trying to sell us that a woman in her late twenties raised by a cold and closed off mother is so naive that she believes that her father's worse enemy, the man responsible for his disappearance, with less than one hour to live (I presume that he is on deathrow) for terrible crimes would want to help her save her father. How could Nora possibly trust or believe Thawne? Clearly Thawne is really attempting to save himself. If he succeeds in wiping this version of Nora out of existence, then Barry and Iris will have caught a lucky break at a do over.

I actually like Nora and she bugged me this episode. 

@adora721, they definitely confirmed that Caitlyn's powers don't come from dark matter. I'm guessing that because she's made peace with being a meta-human (albeit a non-dark matter powered one), she thinks that everyone else should too? I don't know. Caitlyn has horrible characterization. She's written very inconsistently. But the Killer Frost wig has gotten better. So, there's that.

 

Also, why...why did the suped up Wayne tech car use emojis? Who thought that was a good idea?

 

*ETA: My bad, looks like Guggenheim was the former lawyer. I knew it was one of the Eli Stone dudes. Still. That means that Greg knows at least A lawyer. (Yes, yes. Obviously Berlanti doesn't single handedly run this show. It's just one of those things that irritates me to no end.)

Edited January 16, 2019 by Brinny

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Where is everybody getting Thawne is prisoned at Star Labs from? They've shown the outside of it and it's clearly not Star Labs.

You're right. It wasn't Star Labs. It might have been Iron Heights. The cell just looked like similar to those the pipeline.

[Maverick]

 Nora's 'Lesson of the Week' is becoming almost as tedious as Ralph's 'Emotional Crisis / Pep Talk of the Week' last season.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I'm intrigued about that countdown clock in Thawne's prison. Was Thawne sentence to death and that's how long until he is executed or something?

I'm thinking that his pizza will be free after the clock gets to zero.

2 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I'm half way through the episode and all that comes to mind is, who wrote this crap?

It came off as if the writing was farmed out to the interns.

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

This episode was boring af.

Agreed, it was dull, especially for the return after the Xmas break.

4 minutes ago, Brinny said:

Also, why...why did the supped up Wayne tech car use emojis? Who thought that was a good idea?

I wonder what happened if they chose the smiling poop emoji.

Also curious why was a former Air Force pilot not into controlling flying technology, instead of cars.

So, Barry chasing after Lamborginis -- only protecting the elites these days ?  Someone gets their Lada stolen and Barry doesn't care.

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I really wish they hadnt used the TC version of Thawne. He is good at it but I think i'd rather have Matt back.

Seconded. I don't even think TC is doing a good version of his own Thawne this season. It's like he completely forgot the character he played in S1. Plus, his Thawne wig sucks. The Arrowverse master-villain Wigmaster strikes again!

Also, count me in with the folks wondering wtf KF/Caitlin cared about a meta cure engineered around dark matter. Since it supposedly has nothing to do with her meta-gene any longer. And how would a meta cure designed around her father's meta-gene affect dark-matter altered metas? So dumb. But someone thought Cisco needed a plot of his own, so they dug deep in the annals of Flash lore to come up with... something that never mattered to Cisco before.

(And would this show make up its mind about the KF tin-voice effect already? Either use it consistently or don't. Preferably don't, because it really doesn't make a lick of sense for her to sound that way. About as much sense as ice sutures do, at least.)

Weather Witch's actress did much better this time (as opposed to her over the top performance in her debut), but I don't buy the rapid turnaround in her attitude from crazy ranting would-be murderer/mass murderer to super repentant and vaguely helpful semi-criminal?

On another note- why did they call the villain of the week Silver Ghost? Because she stole a silver car that could phase? Will they just change her nickname depending on whatever she steals next? Red Spoiler? Contusion Blue Hummer? Dumb. 

Speaking of Miss Fobulous (because that's what I'm calling her from now on), her whole shtick is apparently that she likes to steal cars and race around the city at high speeds? This show has really run out of ideas for how to utilize the catalog of Flash Rogues in new ways.

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On another note- why did they call the villain of the week Silver Ghost? Because she stole a silver car that could phase? Will they just change her nickname depending on whatever she steals next? Red Spoiler? Contusion Blue Hummer? Dumb. 

What the hell ARGUS ?  First it's meta-power absorbing robot and now a car that phases controlled by an iPad.  Both of which were left virtually unguarded and were easily obtained by villains.  

[Trini]

34 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Miss Fobulous (because that's what I'm calling her from now on), her whole shtick is apparently that she likes to steal cars and race around the city at high speeds? This show has really run out of ideas for how to utilize the catalog of Flash Rogues in new ways.

I know the "Big Bads" of the season are more interesting, but the villains-of-the-week really don't need to be this lame.

 

1 hour ago, Brinny said:

Wait, so exactly who are the West-Allens telling everyone that Nora is? Barry submitted CSI paperwork for some girl who just happens to have the same last name as Joe? So, there's an actual record of a Nora West (I guess "Nora" is debatable, but she was referred to "Ms. West" on the stand) just hanging around? WTF, guys? I know they had Wally explain fixed and soft points and all of that, but this is ridiculous. 

This is a very good question that I've wanting the answer to since the beginning of the season. The "Ms. West" is the closest they've come to addressing it. Maybe she's a distant cousin?

[Trini]

I wish they had given this 'suspicious about Nora and the time language' arc to Cisco instead of Sherloque. Because we don't need another Wells, and they clearly don't have much else for Cisco to do.

[VCRTracking]

For an episode whose sole purpose was to give Grant Gustin time to be away to do the annual crossover, it was okay.

[thuganomics85]

The Flash is back!  Well, kind of, since The Flash himself was actually pretty insignificant here, since this apparently was the episode during the crossover filming, so Grant Gustin needed the time of.  At least he got to have fun mainly chilling around.  Plus, Barry got the read Mick's book!  Too bad it did remind that we have to wait till freaking April for the return of the Legends!

I know I sound like a freaking broken record at this point, but once again, it sucks seeing a charming and likable actress like Jessica Parker Kennedy get stuck playing such an obnoxious character.  She is doing everything right from an acting standpoint, but damn, these writers are just making Nora an immature bore.  So, after finding out the truth about Eobard, she basically is all "Bad guys can't change!" and almost fucks things up with the Weather Witch/Joss, but then after Barry gives her a, yep, pep talk about seeing the good in all bad guys (even fucking Eobard, which, not helping here, Barry!), she sees the error or her ways.  And that includes her going back to trusting Eobard again.  Lame.  Also doesn't help that I'm not feeling Tom Cavanagh's return as Eobard for whatever reason, and I feel like I would have enjoyed it way more if they had gotten Matt Letscher back.  Bummed that it didn't work out, apparently.

So, suddenly Cisco hates his powers and is on a quest to find a "meta cure."  The overall idea isn't bad, but it just feels so sudden and underdeveloped.  At least it led to some good Cisco/Caitlin moments.

Cecile is struggling at her job due to her empathetic power.... Yawn!

Pretty weak return, honestly.  I hope this season picks up soon.

[Mellowyellow]

7 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

You know they gleefully went around handing out the books as soon as they were bound. No way they let everyone miss out on Mick’s well written smut. 

I’m guessing the countdown clock is for Thawne’s execution but he’s going to escape instead. 

Barry read Mick's smutty novel? I haven't caught up this season but I will watch this ep if there is a scene about it! Is there?????

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

I wish they had given this 'suspicious about Nora and the time language' arc to Cisco instead of Sherloque. Because we don't need another Wells, and they clearly don't have much else for Cisco to do.

I remember Sherloque showing Cicso Nora' diary in the last episode. I thought Cisco would be the one to recognize the time language since he partially translated it when Barry returned from the Speed Force, but instead, nothing. This mystery story would have worked better if Cisco had teamed up with Sherloque to investigate Nora. There has always been a fun dynamic between Cisco and the various Wells. Not sure why the show has stopped doing it this season.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[Lady Calypso]

10 hours ago, adora721 said:

Please refresh my memory because Caitlin's Killer Frost origin keeps changing.  I thought that the most current origin story states that there isn't any dark matter in Caitlin. She's genetically a meta NOT created by dark matter. She was created by a Dark Vader (Dark Father) :) LOL. Therefore, Killer Frost has no reason to fear a cure based on removing dark matter. Why is she angry then?

I have no idea. I guess it's because Cisco was saying that all metas needed to be cured and Killer Frost was irritated in thinking that he wants to get rid of all powers? Although, from what Caitlin AND KF said in this episode, it sounded like they thought they'd be included in this cure, which we know isn't the case so....just bad writing all around. 

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Seconded. I don't even think TC is doing a good version of his own Thawne this season. It's like he completely forgot the character he played in S1. Plus, his Thawne wig sucks. The Arrowverse master-villain Wigmaster strikes again!

Tom Cavanagh has gotten worse at trying to portray characters from earlier seasons. His season 4 Harry is different from his season 2 Batman-voice Harry. And now he's using part of his Batman Harry voice in this version of Thawne, which is different from season 1's Thawne! And I thought Eobard Wells was TC's best character on this show! Now I might have to go back to see! I guess I'm starting to see some flaws in TC's acting with every character he portrays and every character that is brought back after a hiatus. Or I'm simply misremembering and mixing all of TC's characters together.

[johntfs]

13 hours ago, bettername2come said:

So, the Legends won't come home for crossover shenanigans, but they'll visit to drop off Mick's book? That's so Legend - wait for it - dary.

Who says they dropped it off (didn't actually see the episode)?  Hasn't it been published already?  I know on LoT at least one of his books has already been published (Uncaged Desire).  I'm a bit surprised that Barry liked the book.  I figured Barry would be leery of it but Iris, Caitlin and the other women would like it.  Honestly, the idea of Mick Rory turning into the Arrowverse version of E. L. James is hilarious to me.

[cdnalor]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On another note- why did they call the villain of the week Silver Ghost? Because she stole a silver car that could phase

Silver Ghost was her callsign as a military pilot so I guess she's stuck with it.

[legaleagle53]

14 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I really wish they hadnt used the TC version of Thawne. He is good at it but I think i'd rather have Matt back.

The reason it's Tom and not Matt is that the showrunners felt that Matt's version of Eobard belonged more to Legends of Tomorrow.  Tom's version is what they consider the "legacy" version for The Flash, so that's the real reason that the role reverted to him.

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

The reason it's Tom and not Matt is that the showrunners felt that Matt's version of Eobard belonged more to Legends of Tomorrow.  Tom's version is what they consider the "legacy" version for The Flash, so that's the real reason that the role reverted to him.

And it's a stupid reason at that. They introduced the whole stealing identity and reverting back but of course they prefer TC.

[Writing Wrongs]

How old is Nora supposed to be? I may be having bad Charmed flashbacks, but when is Nora supposed to be conceived? With all that's always going on, I wouldn't want her window to be missed (or would I?).

[rmontro]

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I hate Sherloque's accent, but at least he has a brain unlike the rest of them.

I would much rather listen to Sherloque's accent than to Thawne whispering everything he says.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I guess I'm starting to see some flaws in TC's acting with every character he portrays and every character that is brought back after a hiatus. Or I'm simply misremembering and mixing all of TC's characters together.

This, dear poster, is when we realize that Tom Cavanaugh has reached the end of his acting range. Mind you, it's a good acting range, but it's reached its limit. TC is no Daniel Day-Lewis.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Who says they dropped it off (didn't actually see the episode)?  Hasn't it been published already?  I know on LoT at least one of his books has already been published (Uncaged Desire).  I'm a bit surprised that Barry liked the book.  I figured Barry would be leery of it but Iris, Caitlin and the other women would like it.  Honestly, the idea of Mick Rory turning into the Arrowverse version of E. L. James is hilarious to me.

I totally buy men connecting to a romance novel written by Mick. He writes how they think. I find the whole thing stupid and a desperate attempt to give the other Arrowverse shows publicity on The Flash.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[TDT]

21 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I loved that they said the car was from Wayne Tech. There's some Batmobile technology involved there. 

More reasons why they NEED to somehow bring Batman into this universe(still not feeling Ruby Rose as Batwoman,but YMMV)

still thinking that DC will adhere to their "Batman is off limits to television" policy even after Gotham leaves the airwaves

[BeautifulFlower]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

You're right. It wasn't Star Labs. It might have been Iron Heights. The cell just looked like similar to those the pipeline.

This show is cheap. They don't even try to hide the fact they're just reusing sets

[johntfs]

21 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I totally buy men connecting to a romance novel written by Mick. He writes how they think. I find the whole thing stupid and a desperate attempt to give the other Arrowverse shows publicity on The Flash.

 

An attempt, sure, but I wouldn't call it desperate.  For one thing LoT is off until April.  For another, I could see your point better if it'd been Ray Palmer, Nate or John Constantine doing the writing.  Mick Rory was "born" on The Flash.  So The Flash doing a bit of a callback to a character who originated there is fine with me.  Plus, yes, Mick writes how men think, but he's also been immersed in a pool of extra-strength estrogen with Sara, Amaya/Charlie, Zari and the other strong, interesting independent women on LoT for a good two-three seasons now.  Figure there's a reason Ava Sharpe (an out lesbian and Sara's committed girlfriend on the show) also enjoyed Mick's writing.

Edited January 17, 2019 by johntfs

[Cthulhudrew]

9 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Silver Ghost was her callsign as a military pilot so I guess she's stuck with it.

This is what I get for not paying attention. I blame the writers for not being able to keep me more focused on the show. :p

[BkWurm1]

I feel like the wrong lessons were taught in this episode.  So Nora wasn't feeling too kindly toward criminals.  I'm not sure what the Weather Witch thought Nora vouching for her character was going to do.  She was broken out of custody and Nora returned her.  Nora didn't beray her.  She didn't owe her anything.  The real problem was not making sure the prisoner was secure so she didn't get broken out again.  If the rest of team Flash hadn't been so gung ho on making sure Nora was up for handing out second chances, she'd be done with this mess.  

And then there was Barry blowing off being a witness to stop a car theft.  He didn't know there was anything meta related at the time but he just ran out on Cecile like she didn't matter.  Not when GASP a fast car was stolen.  That's pretty low level for the Flash and frankly, even the police were probably putting more lives at risk by chasing it.  It's just a thing.  I'm disappointed in their priorities.  

And finally we have Cisco out of the blue wanting to get rid of his powers.  Cisco the dude that LOVES his powers.  Even giddy at times with them.  Since when did he think they were a problem??  It's wildly out of character.  As was his notion that he was going to end ALL powers.  That's a origin story for a super villain right there.  So weird. But also super weird was the decision that they would never take powers from the unwilling.  I thought half the reason for the cure was to stop the ones that were abusing their powers.  Are they now saying that they wouldn't use a cure to stop Cicada or any other murderous meta?  That just seems off.  

Also, has the show forgotten that Killer Frost is supposed to be NOT created out of dark matter so Cisco's attempt at a cure wouldn't have affected her anymore than Cicada's dagger could.  

And could TC's Thawne have been any more over the top?  Yikes I cringed multiple times.  I was not enjoying his take on him this time around.  

A really weird episode.  Not well written at all.  It was so plot over character in a really blatant in your face way.  

[BeautifulFlower]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I feel like the wrong lessons were taught in this episode.  So Nora wasn't feeling too kindly toward criminals.  I'm not sure what the Weather Witch thought Nora vouching for her character was going to do.  She was broken out of custody and Nora returned her.  Nora didn't beray her.  She didn't owe her anything.  The real problem was not making sure the prisoner was secure so she didn't get broken out again.  If the rest of team Flash hadn't been so gung ho on making sure Nora was up for handing out second chances, she'd be done with this mess.  

And then there was Barry blowing off being a witness to stop a car theft.  He didn't know there was anything meta related at the time but he just ran out on Cecile like she didn't matter.  Not when GASP a fast car was stolen.  That's pretty low level for the Flash and frankly, even the police were probably putting more lives at risk by chasing it.  It's just a thing.  I'm disappointed in their priorities.  

And finally we have Cisco out of the blue wanting to get rid of his powers.  Cisco the dude that LOVES his powers.  Even giddy at times with them.  Since when did he think they were a problem??  It's wildly out of character.  As was his notion that he was going to end ALL powers.  That's a origin story for a super villain right there.  So weird. But also super weird was the decision that they would never take powers from the unwilling.  I thought half the reason for the cure was to stop the ones that were abusing their powers.  Are they now saying that they wouldn't use a cure to stop Cicada or any other murderous meta?  That just seems off.  

Also, has the show forgotten that Killer Frost is supposed to be NOT created out of dark matter so Cisco's attempt at a cure wouldn't have affected her anymore than Cicada's dagger could.  

And could TC's Thawne have been any more over the top?  Yikes I cringed multiple times.  I was not enjoying his take on him this time around.  

A really weird episode.  Not well written at all.  It was so plot over character in a really blatant in your face way.  

Weather Witch wanted to go back and wanted Nora to do it. However, Weather Witch told Nora that she would show her the hideout of Silver Ghost. Nora didn't listen and therefore, Silver Ghost ended up getting Weather Witch out of jail.

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Not when GASP a fast car was stolen.  That's pretty low level for the Flash and frankly, even the police were probably putting more lives at risk by chasing it. 

That actually sounds like a good reason for Barry to go after the car, if the police were endangering lives by chasing it.  Again, haven't seen the episode, but ending a hazardous car chase sounds like a good reason for the Flash to suit up and get to running.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

That actually sounds like a good reason for Barry to go after the car, if the police were endangering lives by chasing it.  Again, haven't seen the episode, but ending a hazardous car chase sounds like a good reason for the Flash to suit up and get to running.

His reason for leaving the courtroom leaving Cecile in a pickle on her first day back to work was that a Lamborghini was going to be too fast for the police to catch.  He went long before there was any hint of their being a problem.  He just couldn't prioritize justice via the courts over being in the field.  His plan was to yank the driver out of a moving car.  Not exactly a safe stop to the chase for the car or for any bystanders or property that might get in the way.  

 

8 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Weather Witch wanted to go back and wanted Nora to do it. However, Weather Witch told Nora that she would show her the hideout of Silver Ghost. Nora didn't listen and therefore, Silver Ghost ended up getting Weather Witch out of jail.

Which made no sense.  Nora was just as gung ho about jailing Silver Ghost.  Even if she didn't plan on defending WW, Nora should have/could have gotten whatever intel from WW first.  Unless she thought it was just a trap in which case since she had no back up, I can't fault her too much on not taking the risk.  But again, no one seemed to worry about her getting freed a second time.  Lots of balls dropped.  It was an odd episode.  Like Cecile being upset that WW confessed in the first place.  I get she had a plan but she could have still recommended a lighter sentence for her without a conviction.  I don't get why she was trying to tank the case.  

I'm really looking forward to when we can have Joe back on the show.  Miss him sure but am really tired of them being blatant about his rewritten scenes.  Like when Iris got a file from someone in the Military because they were doing her dad a favor.  If they don't have the actor, just drop the part about it being Joe's contact.  Iris can have her own contacts.