The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Spartan Girl]

LOGAN IS BACK!! YAHOOO!!!!!

 

I don’t give a BAKER’S FUCK how old he is. This is the comedy team up I’ve been waiting for!! Let’s fucking GOOOOOOOOO!

Edited September 27, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[scarynikki12]

[Trini]

'Why Marvel’s Sabra Shouldn’t Be in the MCU'

excerpt:

Quote

... There’s nothing wrong with wanting to put a Jewish hero in the forefront of the MCU; however, putting Sabra, an Israeli government agent, into the world’s biggest blockbuster franchise is a problem. It certainly feels like the powers that be are ignoring the real-life atrocities happening to people. There are already other Jewish heroes that Marvel Studios can include in the MCU. And there are so many ways to whisk audiences away into a thrilling story without this problematic emblem. For Marvel Studios to go forth with using a racist and outdated character like Sabra would be a shame and an incredible insult to Palestinian, Muslim, and Arab fans all around the world. Let’s see how this all unfolds as New World Order approaches.

[Bruinsfan]

Refresh my memory, have many people raised objections to Yelena Belova and Red Guardian being featured in the MCU, despite What Russia has done in Ukraine, Georgia, and Chechnya in recent years?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Where I got stuck is, "There's nothing wrong with it, but....." I'd never heard of Sabra before this, since I'm not a comic reader, and I even had to Google to find other Marvel characters who are Jewish other than Magneto.* Is it that she's a member of the Mossad, or that she works for the government in general? Because that would put Sam, Bucky and John Walker on the proverbial no-fly list as military men and government operatives, at least after a fashion. If it's really just Sabra, then that seems like a separate conversation.

*Today I learned that Harley freakin' Quinn is Jewish. Yeah, she's DC and not Marvel, but still.

[Bruinsfan]

I think Ben Grimm from the Fantastic Four is the most prominent Jewish character at Marvel, though it doesn't play a defining role in his backstory like it does in Magneto's.

[Chyromaniac]

I think the Mossad thing is a big part of it- I’ve also seen references to comics stories where her enemies were Palestinian “terrorists.”  Of course, all of my knowledge is second hand, as I don’t think I ever actually read a comic featuring this character.

And honestly, I can understand someone reading stuff like that about this character, and not wanting to see her in a movie.  But, I also don’t think that person can look at how patriotism has been handled thus far in the MCU- the Captain America/Falcon/Winter Soldier characters in particular- and think that they’re planning on using her to endorse Israeli politics.  Shoot- they made a movie where a literal King decides that the policies of his government/forefathers are wrong, and served to help create the enemy he needs to defeat.  I trust that they know what they’re doing with Sabra.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Chyromaniac

[BetterButter]

[Tenshinhan]

About ten minutes on Google will make it clear as to why the Sabra character is so problematic.

I believe that Marvel Studios has already released a statement suggesting that they will be re-imagining the character and taking a different approach.  I certainly hope they do.

Quote

Shoot- they made a movie where a literal King decides that the policies of his government/forefathers are wrong, and served to help create the enemy he needs to defeat.

I'd like to think that this is where they are going...

Edited September 28, 2022 by Tenshinhan

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

About ten minutes on Google will make it clear as to why the Sabra character is so problematic.

I believe that Marvel Studios has already released a statement suggesting that they will be re-imagining the character and taking a different approach.  I certainly hope they do.

They did. Given what they did with the reimagining of the Mandarin makes me hope they will put the same care into Sabra. They are voluntarily entering a powder keg between this and the movie title so they better have a damn good plan. 

Mostly, this is one controversy that I feel really unqualified to even have an opinion. 

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

They did. Given what they did with the reimagining of the Mandarin makes me hope they will put the same care into Sabra. They are voluntarily entering a powder keg between this and the movie title so they better have a damn good plan. 

Seriously. I too am probably not qualified to have an opinion on this, but considering how the MCU whitewashed Moon Knight’s backstory of his dad being the victim of a hate crime and just replaced it with having an abusive mother—yet another example of MCU misogyny—I think Jewish people are right to be leery. Especially given the title.

Also why the hell are they giving all the Hulk comic villains to Captain America? I know MCU doesn’t give a crap about canon, but still.

[tv echo]

Elizabeth Olsen on Wanda's Future in the MCU & Why Monocropping isn't the Answer | Power of Women
Variety  Sep 27, 2022

It Was Elizabeth Olsen All Along! How She Struck Marvel Magic and Cemented Wanda as the MCU’s Most Powerful Character
By Kate Aurthur    September 27, 2022
https://variety.com/2022/film/features/elizabeth-olsen-wanda-marvel-future-career-1235383662/ 

Quote

.... “Well, this is quite a leap from the woman that I’ve been playing!” she remembers thinking after learning she was to go malevolent in the Sam Raimi-directed sequel to “Doctor Strange.”
*  *  *
In her years in the MCU, Olsen’s Wanda has lost her parents, her brother, her husband and her two sons, all of whom exist somewhere in the multiverse. She’s got a lot to be angry about. According to Kevin Feige, the president of Marvel Studios, Olsen’s skills are why Wanda’s arc has been so complex. “We only even would have dared attempt something like ‘WandaVision,’” Feige says, “because Lizzie is such an outstanding actor.”
*  *  *
.... But what she has created as a woman within the MCU is significant. She’s become one of the franchise’s most popular characters and a dynamic, international star. So much so that not only did “WandaVision” launch Marvel’s overall Phase Four, but she found herself as Benedict Cumberbatch’s main antagonist in “Multiverse of Madness,” a movie she’d signed up for thinking it was going to be a typical MCU mélange of Avengers, and she would be one of many in the larger troupe. Marvel famously keeps secrets from even its own main players, and the surprise — about the size of her role, and about Wanda being the movie’s Big Bad — was revealed to Olsen in a meeting with Raimi, Feige and screenwriter Michael Waldron. “I called my team, and I was like, ‘You guys, I’m the lead villain in this film. I didn’t know that’s what we were doing, but that’s what’s happening!’”

The combination of “WandaVision” and “Multiverse of Madness” meant that she played Wanda from September 2019 until April 2021, with a six-month shutdown because of COVID in between. For Feige, that double feature illustrates “what her gift can bring to the world,” he says. “She’s funny, she’s touching, she’s scary. She’s creepy! She’s charismatic.”
*  *  *
Olsen is curious about what Feige said about Wanda’s future. “It’s good for me to know how he communicates about it,” she says. “Because I really, genuinely feel like my job is to keep my mouth shut until he makes an announcement of any kind.”
* *  *
Feige, for his part, isn’t ready to make anything official, but it certainly doesn’t sound like he’s done with Wanda, or with Olsen. “She’s incredibly humble and incredibly down-to-earth,” he says. “And yet when those cameras roll, it’s a force of nature.” And what about Wanda? “There really is so much more to explore,” he says. “We still haven’t touched on many of her core storylines from the comics.”

Asked about that building that appeared to crush her, Feige affects a blasé tone: “I don’t know that we saw her under rubble?” he says in upspeak. “I saw a tower coming down, and a little red flash. I don’t know what that means.” This is Kevin Feige, the decision-maker for the MCU, sending a clear signal to Wanda Maximoff stans: They never found the body, as the saying goes.

“I’d work with Lizzie for another 100 years if we could,” he continues, and then throws out one final hint before he signs off. “Anything’s possible in the multiverse! We’ll have to see.”

Even when told that information, Olsen still takes the tried-and-true path of, as she’d put it, keeping her mouth shut, when asked her thoughts about playing Wanda again — other than to note she’d like to see “some sort of redemption” for the character after the bloodbath she perpetrated in “Multiverse of Madness.”

“I really don’t know my future,” she says. “There’s nothing that has been agreed on.” ....

Edited September 30, 2022 by tv echo

[Anduin]

32 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also why the hell are they giving all the Hulk comic villains to Captain America? I know MCU doesn’t give a crap about canon, but still.

There probably isn't going to be a Hulk movie or show any time soon. Isn't there a rights thing? May as well use the baddies with Captain America.

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, Anduin said:

There probably isn't going to be a Hulk movie or show any time soon. Isn't there a rights thing? May as well use the baddies with Captain America.

I think that old Universal issue is still on place. Can't have Solo Hulk movies but,, Hulk can play support/appear in any MCU project.

Looks like Blade is having issues 😔

[tv echo]

FWIW...

[BetterButter]

[WritinMan]

Deadpool Update, Part Hugh...

This is genius marketing. I have not been this interested in a movie in quite some time.

EDIT: LOL. Looks we posted this at the same time. That's how big this news is!

Edited September 28, 2022 by WritinMan

[festivus]

Lol.  I'm sure Hugh really did think he'd never be playing Wolverine again. This is awesome.

[Hiyo]

Quote

For Marvel Studios to go forth with using a racist and outdated character like Sabra would be a shame and an incredible insult to Palestinian, Muslim, and Arab fans all around the world.

Big time.

[Trini]

I also feel unqualified to discuss Sabra; that's why I linked a piece from an Arab author.

The MCU has managed to reform/reimagine other problematic characters, but I just wonder how much Jewish, Arab, or Muslim input will go into that.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Trini

[Hiyo]

As someone who is Arab with part-Palestinian heritage, the character would need quite a bit of re-imagining to work.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 hours ago, BetterButter said:

GENIUS!!!! and with Wham's "Wake Me Up" 🤣

[Tenshinhan]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also why the hell are they giving all the Hulk comic villains to Captain America?

Although she may have began as an antagonist to the Hulk, Sabra isn't a villain, and she isn't really associated with the Hulk comics as much as she is with the X-Men and the larger Marvel Universe in general.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Tenshinhan said:

Although she may have began as an antagonist to the Hulk, Sabra isn't a villain, and she isn't really associated with the Hulk comics as much as she is with the X-Men and the larger Marvel Universe in general.

I was referring to The Leader.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

The MCU has managed to reform/reimagine other problematic characters, but I just wonder how much Jewish, Arab, or Muslim input will go into that.

I have the same question. The fact that the movie already has to handle everything involved with giving a Black Captain America the portrayal he deserves makes me really apprehensive. So far Marvel has sucked with intersectionality. 

When they handle a minority well it is when there is someone heavily involved behind the scenes who can be that groups voice and without that voice the characters tend to get used more as a plot device than a distinct character. Sort of like Wanda in WandaVision vs MoM. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

When they handle a minority well it is when there is someone heavily involved behind the scenes who can be that groups voice and without that voice the characters tend to get used more as a plot device than a distinct character. Sort of like Wanda in WandaVision vs MoM. 

'Course as far as that goes, it tends to help when the next writers and director actually watch the last thing the character was in, as opposed to just fucking off and doing entirely their own thing.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

'Course as far as that goes, it tends to help when the next writers and director actually watch the last thing the character was in, as opposed to just fucking off and doing entirely their own thing.

That’s what I mean by having someone involved that is that characters voice. Like if the Guardians appear in any non-Guardian movie Gunn is consulted because Marvel accepts that he is the voice of those characters. Despite WandaVision having a showrunner and writer that were obviously cognizant of the need for Wanda to be a fully developed character Wanda was still viewed as a side character in many aspects.

It’s the very thing that made Nat a character with such wasted potential. Outside of Black Panther, the women and BIPOC haven’t been given the same level of care when they aren’t centered in a project. Which is why introducing Sabra in someone else’s project doesn’t bode well for me.

[Kel Varnsen]

24 minutes ago, Dani said:

Outside of Black Panther, the women and BIPOC haven’t been given the same level of care when they aren’t centered in a project.

Nebula arguably has one of the best multi-movie story arcs of any character in the MCU. Especially considering she is a secondary character at best.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Nebula arguably has one of the best multi-movie story arcs of any character in the MCU. Especially considering she is a secondary character at best.

Absolutely but it has zero to do with her being a women. She is an amazing character but the exact same arc could be given to a man with no change. And I suspect that with a weaker actor her arc wouldn’t be anywhere near as good. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

It’s the very thing that made Nat a character with such wasted potential. Outside of Black Panther, the women and BIPOC haven’t been given the same level of care when they aren’t centered in a project. Which is why introducing Sabra in someone else’s project doesn’t bode well for me.

One thing that does give me hope for Yelena is that Florence Pugh has been given a fair amount of input into how she wants to play the character. Yeah, she's the current It Girl and all, but she also seems capable of standing up for herself and speaking out when she doesn't care for how something is going. Either she spoke up when Black Widow first started filming, or she was asked by someone if she had her own thoughts on the subject. If you want to talk similar arcs, hers is much like Bucky's, and yet in direct comparison Sebastian Stan is still given very little to work with. I had truly hoped that removing Barnes from Steve's orbit meant that a change in the writing was coming, one that would liven him up, but that didn't happen. He's still just kind of......there. So either Florence was asked if she wanted to give more depth to Yelena than the writing might have intended, or she spoke up and Sebastian didn't. A bit off-topic for what we're currently discussing, but yeah.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

Absolutely but it has zero to do with her being a women. She is an amazing character but the exact same arc could be given to a man with no change. And I suspect that with a weaker actor her arc wouldn’t be anywhere near as good. 

I am not sure it would have worked the same, at least for me if she was instead Thanos's son or Gamora's brother.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure it would have worked the same, at least for me if she was instead Thanos's son or Gamora's brother.

It probably wouldn’t but that doesn’t mean that the arc is in any way related to her being a women. That’s not a knock on the character or the writing. Nebula is an amazing character either way but she’s also not a character that has to represent anything the way Sabra will. 

Plus she’s a Guardian which means that she has a “caretaker” (for lack of a better word) in the MCU which is something most women in the MCU haven’t had. 

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

One thing that does give me hope for Yelena is that Florence Pugh has been given a fair amount of input into how she wants to play the character. Yeah, she's the current It Girl and all, but she also seems capable of standing up for herself and speaking out when she doesn't care for how something is going. Either she spoke up when Black Widow first started filming, or she was asked by someone if she had her own thoughts on the subject. If you want to talk similar arcs, hers is much like Bucky's, and yet in direct comparison Sebastian Stan is still given very little to work with. I had truly hoped that removing Barnes from Steve's orbit meant that a change in the writing was coming, one that would liven him up, but that didn't happen. He's still just kind of......there. So either Florence was asked if she wanted to give more depth to Yelena than the writing might have intended, or she spoke up and Sebastian didn't. A bit off-topic for what we're currently discussing, but yeah.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the actors speaking up or not. Yelena was introduced in Black Widow in role that centered her with a woman at the helm that was deliberately about female representation. Then Hawkeye was another show that clearly took care in how Kate and Yelena were represented. In many ways they were more central to the story then Hawkeye. Fortunately they are keeping Yelena as the focus in Thunderbolts. 

Bucky has never been the focus even when he has been a titular character. He is there to propel Captain America’s story. Personally I am fine with him not being the the new Captain America and letting him be his own character. 

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with the actors speaking up or not. Yelena was introduced in Black Widow in role that centered her with a woman at the helm that was deliberately about female representation. Then Hawkeye was another show that clearly took care in how Kate and Yelena were represented. In many ways they were more central to the story then Hawkeye. Fortunately they are keeping Yelena as the focus in Thunderbolts. 

Bucky has never been the focus even when he has been a titular character. He is there to propel Captain America’s story. Personally I am fine with him got being the the new Captain America and letting him be his own character. 

The MCU didn't have the time to make Bucky a viable Captain America alternative. They could have used Cap 3 to do that, instead of making it an Avengers movie, but they didn't. 

He was only propelled into that role in the comics because he was the main villain of the first arcs of Ed Brubaker's Cap run, then became the book's protagonist after Cap died (he got better). Readers had time to spend with him and understand the character, to root for him to find some kind of meaningful life again after decades under mind control.

In the movies, he was a macguffin for Steve to worry about and a lot of people simply aren't that attached to him.

So I'm fine with Sam becoming the new Captain America and Bucky becoming his own person, and I'm actually okay with him being in Thunderbolts because it makes sense that he'd gravitate towards some kind of government team - what else does he have?

Yelena as the focus of that movie is great, because she's the most compelling new MCU character of this latest raft (of which, I'm glad to say, nearly all the good ones are women - Yelena, Kate, Kamala, Shulkie) and she deserves the spotlight. Marvel fucked up by not giving Natasha her own movie earlier and, when they finally did, Yelena was really the only good thing about it.

But I do hope that Bucky will be the second lead, and not a bit part player who takes a back seat to more flashy characters. And it would be really nice if they actually made a movie that fits these characters, rather than shoehorning a bunch military/espionage types into a generic superhero one.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, Dani said:

It probably wouldn’t but that doesn’t mean that the arc is in any way related to her being a women. That’s not a knock on the character or the writing.

I am confused then, what kind of storyline would it take for her arc to be related to her being a women? Because a lot of her story changes if you change all of Gamora's lines from "sister" to "brother" or "sibling". Are we talking a storyline where Nebula is pregnant?

[angora]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

I have the same question. The fact that the movie already has to handle everything involved with giving a Black Captain America the portrayal he deserves makes me really apprehensive. So far Marvel has sucked with intersectionality. 

When they handle a minority well it is when there is someone heavily involved behind the scenes who can be that groups voice and without that voice the characters tend to get used more as a plot device than a distinct character. Sort of like Wanda in WandaVision vs MoM. 

This. With M'Baku in Black Panther, you had Ryan Coogler and Joe Robert Cole working with Winston Duke to create a cool, scene-stealing character that defied the problematic roots of his comic character ("Man-Ape"). With Wenwu in Shang-Chi, you had Destin Daniel Cretton and Dave Callaham working with Tony Leung Chiu-wai to create an awesome, compelling character that defied the problematic roots from TWO super-racist characters (the Mandarin and Fu Manchu.) In Captain America 4, who's going to be working with Shira Haas to avoid the potential pitfalls in depicting Sabra?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am confused then, what kind of storyline would it take for her arc to be related to her being a women? Because a lot of her story changes if you change all of Gamora's lines from "sister" to "brother" or "sibling". Are we talking a storyline where Nebula is pregnant?

No I just disagree that a lot of her story changes if you change all of Gamora’s lines from sister to brother or sibling beyond the implied dynamics of gender roles. Nebula’s story is largely routed in family dynamics that exist separate from gender. If you were take the script and remove all references to character gender I think it would be very hard to know if she was a man or woman. Gendering flipping the role would feel different because Karen is a woman and obviously puts that in the role but functionally the writing and even directing wouldn’t have to change at all. 

I was listening to a podcast that referred to Nat in Iron Man 2 as a badass woman drawn by a man* and I think that is the heart of what I am saying about Nebula. 

*ETA: That’s not to say men can’t write well drawn women.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

18 hours ago, Dani said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with the actors speaking up or not. Yelena was introduced in Black Widow in role that centered her with a woman at the helm that was deliberately about female representation. Then Hawkeye was another show that clearly took care in how Kate and Yelena were represented. In many ways they were more central to the story then Hawkeye. Fortunately they are keeping Yelena as the focus in Thunderbolts. 

Bucky has never been the focus even when he has been a titular character. He is there to propel Captain America’s story. Personally I am fine with him not being the the new Captain America and letting him be his own character. 

I'll be more precise. As far as their tenure in the MCU is concerned, Yelena is a new character in comparison to Bucky, since she's only been in one movie and one streaming show. Thunderbolts either hasn't started filming yet or its still in the beginning stages of it, so if Yelena has made an impression IMO it's a combination of good writing and Pugh's screen presence, and maybe her own contributions to how she wants to portray her. In contrast, Bucky's been around (in the movies, not the comics) since 2011, and not being the title character sort of doesn't matter. Yes, before he was mostly there to propel Cap's story or be a source of angst for other characters, like Tony, but what about right now?

Because they aren't really letting him be his own character either. They gave Steve a (shitty) sendoff and paired Barnes up with Sam, and he's still fading into the woodwork. I don't know what anyone else wanted, but I wanted to see something a lot livelier from this guy who is finally free of both the brainwashing and being pursued as an international fugitive. The old argument was that if Bucky was Becky, he would be Steve's love interest because of how much Rogers obviously cared about him. Maybe it should have been, if Bucky was Becky, how quickly would we have gotten bored with the super-attractive cipher we keep being presented with? Charlize Theron, just as an example, is a beautiful woman, but if she was only cast so she could be attractive wallpaper over the course of four movies, I think the shine would have worn off pretty fast.

8 hours ago, angora said:

 In Captain America 4, who's going to be working with Shira Haas to avoid the potential pitfalls in depicting Sabra?

Well, that's the thing, we don't know. Both Wenwu and M'Baku could have been disasters in their own rights, but they weren't. Does it matter more that Sabra is a woman, mean that she should be presented with more care? I'm not familiar with this actress either, since she only has 20 credits on IMDB, most of it TV work. Maybe that's why they'd choose a relative unknown? I don't know.

[Raja]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Well, that's the thing, we don't know. Both Wenwu and M'Baku could have been disasters in their own rights, but they weren't. Does it matter more that Sabra is a woman, mean that she should be presented with more care? I'm not familiar with this actress either, since she only has 20 credits on IMDB, most of it TV work. Maybe that's why they'd choose a relative unknown? I don't know.

Ultimately the fear with both Wenwu and M'Baku was the old stereotypical ethic portrayals that the source comic books have left in its history.  With Sabra it is more contemporary global political concerns of portraying any Israeli, not just a Jewish character like Ben Grim/The Thing, in a positive role. And that comes with the potential fall out that introducing LGBTQ+ had in some nations with a smaller  potential gain from those saying my tribe, in Israel, is finally represented 

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Because they aren't really letting him be his own character either. They gave Steve a (shitty) sendoff and paired Barnes up with Sam, and he's still fading into the woodwork. I don't know what anyone else wanted, but I wanted to see something a lot livelier from this guy who is finally free of both the brainwashing and being pursued as an international fugitive. 

Yeah, a character such as Bucky that has such a good story and is played by a great actor needs to be more than Steve or Sam's sidekick. Contrast with my other favorite Nebula where there has been an effort to take a character similar to Bucky and give her her own story that has meaning. I guess the difference is that the person in charge of her character cared about doing so. And we still have her story with the Gamora that doesn't know of the changes that happened in their relationship to look forward to.

Bucky just gets to be the catalyst in Steve and Tony's fight when the third CA movie should have been his and Steve's story. He's not welcome in Wakanda and after FaTS, the logical thing does seem to be Thunderbolts. He just better not end up the sidekick in this one too. If I was a writer I'd love to be writing for a character like Bucky.

If I can't have my Bucky and Nebula dream then I'm bout ready to trundle him over to my favoritest show and let Big Green cuddle him up. I bet he likes a strong woman.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, festivus said:

Yeah, a character such as Bucky that has such a good story and is played by a great actor needs to be more than Steve or Sam's sidekick. Contrast with my other favorite Nebula where there has been an effort to take a character similar to Bucky and give her her own story that has meaning. I guess the difference is that the person in charge of her character cared about doing so. And we still have her story with the Gamora that doesn't know of the changes that happened in their relationship to look forward to.

I feel like the really well developed across multiple movies background characters like Nebula are kind of uncommon. It's basically her, Nick Fury and maybe Happy. On the flip side you have characters like Ned, Maria Hill, Pepper, Heimdall and even Kraglin (from the same series as Nebula). So someone like Bucky not being well developed shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

[swanpride]

The others weren't part of the title of a movie. 

[Danny Franks]

10 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Well, that's the thing, we don't know. Both Wenwu and M'Baku could have been disasters in their own rights, but they weren't. Does it matter more that Sabra is a woman, mean that she should be presented with more care? I'm not familiar with this actress either, since she only has 20 credits on IMDB, most of it TV work. Maybe that's why they'd choose a relative unknown? I don't know.

She's fantastic. She was nominated for a bunch of awards, including a Golden Globe and an Emmy, for her role in Unorthodox.

She definitely knows how to play a religious Jewish character with nuance and depth. Whether the MCU can put a character like that on screen successfully, we'll have to see.

I'm rooting for them to, rather than immediately thinking it will be a disaster or not wanting to see an Israeli Jewish superhero. As for the politics, that's more complicated but I don't believe a character merely being Israeli means they must be either sympathetic to the Palestinian cause or a villain. That's as reductive as the depiction of Muslims as terrorists. It will definitely be tricky for Marvel to depict properly.

The thing is, when the character was created, Mossad were seen as heroic - hunting former Nazis, tracking down the Munich Olympic Games terrorists, rescuing hijacked airline passengers in Uganda. The plight of Palestinians wasn't seen through the same eyes it is today, and the original version of the character was very much a kind of Captain Israel.

She's a product of the times, just as much as Captain America or Iron Man were. And she has been updated, even if she's only a minor character. 

[tv echo]

MCU Phase 5-6: Disney Confirms 12 Release Dates for Upcoming Movies
By Richard Nebens   September 28, 2022
https://thedirect.com/article/mcu-phase-5-6-disney-release-dates-upcoming-movies 

Quote

Following the announcement that Deadpool 3 will debut in theaters on September 6, 2024, Disney released a new schedule for its upcoming theatrical slate, which confirmed 12 upcoming release dates from Phase 5 and Phase 6 of the MCU. This includes two release dates for yet-to-be-titled movies in 2025, which will both be part of Phase 6.
*  *  *
The full list of those releases can be seen below:

• February 17, 2023 - Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
• May 5, 2023 - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3
• July 28, 2024 - The Marvels
• November 3, 2023 - Blade
• May 3, 2024 - Captain America: New World Order
• July 26, 2024 - Thunderbolts
• September 6, 2024 - Untitled Deadpool Movie
• November 8, 2024 - Fantastic Four
• February 14, 2025 - Untitled Marvel Film
• May 2, 2025 - Avengers: The Kang Dynasty
• July 25, 2025 - Untitled Marvel Film
• November 7, 2025 - Avengers: Secret Wars

Anthony Mackie on Possibility of Captain America in ‘Thunderbolts’ and Using His Marvel Fame for Good
By Marc Malkin    September 28, 2022
https://variety.com/2022/film/columns/anthony-mackie-captain-america-thunderbolts-marvel-1235385210/ 

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Are you going to be in “Thunderbolts”?
I have no idea. You know how it works. They call you the week before and are like, “We own your ass. Come get in the movie.”

How much say do you have in what is going to happen in “Captain America: New World Order”?
They’re definitely very inclusive. When we did “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier,” [writer] Malcolm Spellman and I talked at length about what that character was turning into, what we wanted him to be, what we wanted that narrative to be. Now with Malcolm writing this “Captain America,” it’s the exact same thing. We’ve talked and communicated about what we want that story to be going forward and how it’ll fit in this new Marvel universe. You definitely get the idea of collaboration, but you don’t get to tell them what it’s going to be.

[AimingforYoko]

Rumor alert. The following is just a rumor, if you have high blood pressure, maybe avoid this because it needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt:
Harrison Ford considered for Gen. Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross in Thunderbolts.

[starri]

16 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Rumor alert. The following is just a rumor, if you have high blood pressure, maybe avoid this because it needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt:
Harrison Ford considered for Gen. Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross in Thunderbolts.

If it's from ScreenRant, it's 85% likely to be bullshit.

[tv echo]

‘Avengers: Secret Wars’: Michael Waldron Tapped To Pen Upcoming Installment For Marvel Studios
By Justin Kroll    October 3, 2022 
https://deadline.com/2022/10/avengers-secret-wars-michael-waldron-marvel-studios-1235127065/ 

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EXCLUSIVE: Following the success of Loki and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Michael Waldron looks to be in line for another high-profile Marvel property as sources tell Deadline he is set to write Avengers: Secret Wars for Marvel Studios.

Deadline recently broke that Jeff Loveness was on board to write Avengers: The Kang Dynasty, following the news Destin Daniel Cretton would direct Kang Dynasty for Marvel Studios, and now both films have locked up their writers. Insiders add that Secret Wars will have its own director, though it’s assumed all parties will be in touch while the films are in development. Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige is producing.

Marvel Studios had no comment on the Waldron news.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

‘Avengers: Secret Wars’: Michael Waldron Tapped To Pen Upcoming Installment For Marvel Studios
By Justin Kroll    October 3, 2022 
https://deadline.com/2022/10/avengers-secret-wars-michael-waldron-marvel-studios-1235127065/ 

The guy who ruined Wanda penning the next Avengers? Hard pass.

[Kel Varnsen]

21 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

The guy who ruined Wanda penning the next Avengers? Hard pass.

Do you really think that the guy that wrote doctor strange came up with the idea to make Wanda evil (well more evil) on his own? It seems like that is way more power than any MCU screenwriter would have. It would seen more likely that that direction came from way higher up. 

Also it's not like her being evil wasn't pretty much set up at the end of Wandavision.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Do you really think that the guy that wrote doctor strange came up with the idea to make Wanda evil (well more evil) on his own?

I'm not the one you asked, but IMO Sam Raimi wanted to make a horror movie with a Marvel budget. WandaVision ended in March of last year. The Doctor Strange sequel hit theaters on May the second. That's a little over a year in real time, and I see no reason not to apply the same time frame in the fictional universe the characters live in. We've been through this before. You're going to tell me that Stephen Strange knew what happened in Westview and sat on his hands in the aftermath, that the guy who always has to be the one holding the knife would do nothing to check in on the super-powerful witch who just held an entire town captive? It's perfectly reasonable to expect an answer to the questions I have.

At some point, there has to be some kind of logical explanation as to why everyone would just shrug and be like, Oh, well, yeah that happened, but it's nothing to worry about. I'm sure she'll be completely fine on her own and nothing else will happen. Let's even pretend for a second that it's totally normal and not at all evil to help a known murderer to escape from prison (hi, Bucky) and then surprise he kills again. Yeah, yeah, he's hot and sad and......there's still nothing else to him. I don't get how we're all still focused on what Wanda did when a damn mountain fell on her while she was trying to make amends, and Blank Slate Barnes is still wandering around doing whatever he wants. Or maybe I do, and I'm not sure that's an improvement.

[Spartan Girl]

Oh believe me, I blame Feige since he’s the one in charge. But Waldron’s writing for MoM was…not very good for the most part. It was pretty clear that he and Raimi didn’t bother with consistency from WandaVision; Raimi admitted he didn’t even watch it.