All Episodes Discussion

[TVbitch]

Wow, they certainly spit polished Lori's fruit loop friend from Hawaii. In the very first Keith Mo episode she came off as only slightly less crazy in her beliefs than Lori. In this one, she is wearing a suit, talking rationally about how Lori was certainly involved in the murders, and is attending vigils. And that other woman who recorded them when Lori tried to get her to say JJ was with her, that is all well and good, but they just quickly skimmed over the fact that she never called the police back when they originally called, and she waited 12 days for her "conscience" to tell her to call Lori back and try to see what's up. 

Though I don't know what good anyone could really have done, cuz law enforcement took forever to take anything seriously. I mean, a man who TWICE went to police and said his wife is crazy and threatening to murder him is murdered in his wife's house, and there is pretty much no investigation?! And when Lori failed to produce the kids after ordered to, it took forever for consequences to happen. 

The screen at the end says if convicted Chad gets up to 20 years, Lori up to 10. That's sickening. 

[amarante]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I remember there was a "Dateline" episode where the friend was explaining the whole "zombies" thing to Keith Morrison, and the look on his face was priceless. He just had the most perfect "...what the hell?" side-eye going on.

But yeah, it will forever amaze me how people can fall for this kind of insane nonsense. And as I've said in regards to discussions about this story elsewhere, I'm especially mystified at how someone like Chad can rope in so many women and manipulate them so easily. He must have some truly well hidden skills or something, 'cause there's nothing charismatic or attractive or intriguing about him. Course, it's also clear that he and Lori fed off each other...two manipulative souls connecting and bringing out their worst impulses. 

You knew it wasn't going to end well for the kids (initially when I first heard this story, I briefly thought Tylee might've become part of this twisted group of wives, 'cause that tends to happen in cults like this), and that just makes knowing the kind of hell they went through, and how gruesome their end really was, all the more horrifying. I definitely hope they can make sure there's more than enough there to give these two the punishment they deserve. I also wonder, given how high profile this case has become, how difficult it's been trying to find a jury free of that media influence. 

I am an atheist and a rationalist to a fault so I am obviously biased.

However, I have had the experience of controlling my eyes rolls on numerous occasions when people discuss all kinds of spiritual and paranormal matters. Years ago I had friends who got swept into the cult of JZ Knight and Ramtha and I had to actually be subjected to listening to tapes where they were receiving his revelations.

Mediums; psychics; people who believe in miracles; the power of prayer - it's all just a continuum of superstitious irrational belief to me. I don't know how people differentiate between one form of irrational belief system from another - if you believe in angels and heaven - why not ghosts and mediums or other insanity?

I don't know what I would have done if someone claimed they believe in zombie takeovers - and after all weren't these people who actually believed in that cult to some extent? 

What is more shocking to me is that law enforcement completely ignored all the deaths. I had never seen the footage of the husband filing a complaint regarding his fear of being killed by his wife until this show. And then he was shot under what seemed like completely suspect circumstances and there was no investigation? That to me is more upsetting than an idiot fellow member of a cult who ignored talk of zombies.

[Diana Berry]

Watched the Wednesday show about the young aspiring record producer.  His parents broke my heart.  I hope they get answers but it’s going to be tough.  I wish the family member  had been able to probe him as to why suddenly he wanted to join the military when he was on the brink of making it through in the record business.  He must have been very troubled.  Rest In Peace.

side note did they have texting and twitter in 2009?

[biakbiak]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:07 PM, Diana Berry said:

note did they have texting and twitter in 2009?

Yes. Texting has been around since the late 90s though not that widespread until the mid-00s. Twitter has been around since 2006 and even as someone who doesn’t tweet I have had an account and checked it regularly since 2008 and I was not an early adopter when it came to either. 

[12catcrazy]

Anybody watch last night's episode about the woman in Texaa who was tried and found not guilty of killing her husband?  

I don't really know what to make of that one - seems like they could have had more details such as what could have been her motive.

Edited October 11, 2020 by 12catcrazy
Typo

[sempervivum]

24 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Anybody watch last night's episode about the woman in Texaa who was tried and found not guilty of killing her husband?  

I don't really know what to make of that one - seems like they could have had more details such as what could have been her motive.

Yes, I'm quite sure she did it, but her motive was unexplored. She was 13 years older than her husband, so probably close to 60, and she had MS (I think), and supposedly the husband was her caregiver, so why would she want to kill him? However, we didn't see any sign of illness, even after 2 years in prison, so not sure what to make of that. However, it looks like they had money, and she seemed to be enjoying living a nice lifestyle in the house he was murdered in.  

The small town cops really botched the whole thing, so maybe this was 48 Hours showrunners jumping on the 'police are eeevil' bandwagon?

[12catcrazy]

2 hours ago, sempervivum said:

 

The small town cops really botched the whole thing, so maybe this was 48 Hours showrunners jumping on the 'police are eeevil' bandwagon?

I don't think it was any kind of "evil police bandwagon" - I think it was just that they were showing that the local cops didn't know what the hell they were doing.  

It was either the woman or her son that did it.   I thought that she looked pretty good for having MS but there are different levels of disease progression.  I have a male friend who was dx ed 20 years ago and its not obvious that he has MS.  He walks really well but has other issues; nothing you'd notice unless you spend alot of time around him.

[Court]

I can't even watch the end of the Ahmaud Arbery episode. It's so horrifying. I turned it off when the dunbass defense came on trying to justify the racist assholes killing an innocent man. It was that or break my TV. 

[TVbitch]

Sometimes I hate defense attorneys.

It boggles my mind that the murderers were so sure Ahmaud Arbery was stealing. The day they killed him, and the couple times he was caught on tape looking at the construction sight (which is a totally normal thing to do) he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt and was on foot. Where exactly did they think he was putting all this loot?! So tragic. 

[12catcrazy]

And think about it - people commit murder and sometimes get fairly light sentences.  Lets say Ahmaud Arbery WAS stealing (not saying he was, this is for argument)  - THAT's supposed to "justify" a death penalty?  Because that's in fact what he received.   And who were these jerks to decide that they were to be the judge and jury?  Oh, I forgot, a Black man, in a well-to-do white neighborhood!  * Slaps face here*

Anybody remember when Henry Louis Gates was almost arrested for trying to get into his own house?  Because a Black person couldn't possibly live in THAT tony neighborhood!  He was probably lucky that he wasn't shot (and that he doesn't live in Georgia).  

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

Anybody remember when Henry Louis Gates was almost arrested for trying to get into his own house?  Because a Black person couldn't possibly live in THAT tony neighborhood!  He was probably lucky that he wasn't shot (and that he doesn't live in Georgia).  

He wasn’t almost arrested, he was arrested and charged. 

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Lets say Ahmaud Arbery WAS stealing (not saying he was, this is for argument)  - THAT's supposed to "justify" a death penalty?  Because that's in fact what he received.   And who were these jerks to decide that they were to be the judge and jury? 

The whole time I was watching it I kept thinking, why do these guys think its their business to take care of the problem?  As you mentioned, even if he did steal something  (not sure where he would have put it) they had no business dealing with it that way or at all.

[patty1h]

Last nights episode "The Murder of Anna Repkina" showed that it's scary how murder is becoming the go-to solution to saying "honey, it's not working" for this guy and creeps like Chris Watts, Patrick Frazee, Scott Peterson, Fotis Dulos, Lori Daybell (first husband?), etc.

Will Hargrove is the worse human on earth.   He lies about his military service, stole a woman's wedding ring, hooks up with another woman while living with his current GF.  Then he gets online and strings poor Anna along, had her move across the planet with a bunch of lies, killed her and stole her money.   The final insult is that this asshole spent it on toys and to pay his car insurance.   Why didn't just break up with Anna, advise her to go back to Russia.   

Call me heartless, but I had no sympathy for the GF Michelle who tried to take her life due to stress from the case and people thinking she was somehow involved.   I got the sense that she is a bit of a drama queen and the suicide attempt was a cry for attention.   Move away if you can't take the scrutiny of people.  That sounds harsh, but that was my feeling.

Curious how others felt - did he kill Anna for her money or because he wanted to appease Michelle?

Edited November 1, 2020 by patty1h

[sainte-chapelle]

Yea I didn't care for drama Queen Michelle and agree her 'suicide attempt' was an attempt at attention. I think she knew more than she admits and was secretly 'thrilled' that Will 'chose' her. She didn't look one bit shocked or upset when the cops told her Anna was dead and Will killed her. I hope her husband tossed her out.

Edited November 1, 2020 by sainte-chapelle

[TVbitch]

The most amazing thing in a lot of the cases is that there are multiple woman who seem to be fighting over these loser guys. Even after they are exposed as liars, cheaters, etc. 

Yeah, Michelle did not come off as sympathetic. I don't think she was at the scene. She may have known about it. She was initially willing to cover for him, at the very least. In the end, she seemed most upset that her man is going to jail, and she won't get her happily ever after with him. She went on at length about how hard it was for her without even a token "but Anna lost her life" mention. 

 

[12catcrazy]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The most amazing thing in a lot of the cases is that there are multiple woman who seem to be fighting over these loser guys. Even after they are exposed as liars, cheaters, etc. 

Yeah, Michelle did not come off as sympathetic. I don't think she was at the scene. She may have known about it. She was initially willing to cover for him, at the very least. In the end, she seemed most upset that her man is going to jail, and she won't get her happily ever after with him. She went on at length about how hard it was for her without even a token "but Anna lost her life" mention. 

 

ALL of the above!  And if this guy was the George Clooney of Bend, OR, all I can say is that the pickings up there must be slim.   I couldn't for the life of me see why this loser had TWO women fighting over him.  He was nothing to look at and apparently didn't have a pot to piss in.  He couldn't even pay his car insurance bill....  And poor Anna - to come 5000 miles and wind up dead in the Oregon woods by the hand of the jerk she considered the love of her life.   And frankly, I think he killed her more to get her money than to do Michelle's bidding.  I mean really, if Michelle meant all that much to him, why get involved with Anna to begin with?

And I have ZERO sympathy for Michelle.  Drama Queen and kind of a nut job.   Thousands and thousands and thousands of text messages to that guy?  And where the hell were her children while she was obsessing over Will?  And what a pig that guy was - days of food trash in his car, and then dumped with that poor girl's body.  It was bad luck on his part that somebody actually discovered her body before animals dragged her off.  In a way, he came close to getting away with murder.  

[Steph J]

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The most amazing thing in a lot of the cases is that there are multiple woman who seem to be fighting over these loser guys.

 

At the risk of sounding shallow, when the women interviewed on the show were talking about how irresistible and charismatic he was, I was like "... Him?"

And I'm amazed that he managed to manipulate anyone given what a terrible liar he was. That "Wait, whaaaaaat?" (complete with surprised Pikachu face) performance in the police interview was some of the worst acting I've ever seen.

[Arkay]

I don't think Michelle did the actual killing, but I do believe she was involved or at least knew about it. When that asshole texted her "I picked you up at your moms" so they could get the story straight, she had to know. Otherwise she'd be questioning him as to why was he bringing that up and why was he suggesting a storyline? 

I also don't appreciate her acting like she's the sadly harassed victim here. What kind of warped situation this was. Why would her husband allow it? Did Michelle think about her kids in any of this? 

For Anna, maybe he seemed to offer her the better life in America. But Michelle, already with one husband in hand, to agonize over this loser? 13,000 texts? She seemed attractive and well-spoken, but obviously crazy within. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Arkay

[ByaNose]

Will was a loser and had 2 woman fighting over him.  Anna didn’t know what she was walking into. Michele did though. I mean she has living in her house while her husband is still?!?!? That’s fricking crazy. She sent thousands of text to him which is more then I ever did with one person let alone a group of people. She has sex with him in the car and then goes back to the family Thanksgiving.  Basically she wanted Anna gone. I don’t know if she wanted her dead but gone at least. I can see why she would need to leave her small town because she was just as bad as Will was. Nope! Not feeling sorry for her at all. 

[LittleIggy]

They said Michelle went to the place where Anna was murdered before the crime as if she were scouting a location, didn’t they? I think she was in on the murder. Not present when it happened but in on it. Will should get shanked in prison. Poor Anna. Her fate broke my heart.

Edited November 2, 2020 by LittleIggy

[Annber03]

Just watched this episode, and hoooooooooly crap, there is SO MUCH to unpack here.

8 hours ago, Steph J said:

At the risk of sounding shallow, when the women interviewed on the show were talking about how irresistible and charismatic he was, I was like "... Him?"

And I'm amazed that he managed to manipulate anyone given what a terrible liar he was. That "Wait, whaaaaaat?" (complete with surprised Pikachu face) performance in the police interview was some of the worst acting I've ever seen.

Echoing every word of this. I mean, when a guy gives his new girlfriend a ring that belongs to the other woman he's seeing, and which is her wedding ring besides...any sane woman at that point, be it the one who was given the ring or the one who noticed it was their ring, would be like, "Yeeeeeeeeeah, we're done here." Talk about a true asshole move. 

The look on his face when they mentioned the garbage in the interview...he was like, "...shit, it's over." I also rolled my eyes at how he tried to make Anna out to be this crazy woman who was pretending like they were engaged. Dude, there are photos of her wearing a ring you gave her. There's video of her at a drive-thru in a wedding dress, sitting alongside you. You clearly knew her well enough to know her bank account information and take her money. Fuck off with this "LOL crazy women amirite?" BS. 

4 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Will was a loser and had 2 woman fighting over him.  Anna didn’t know what she was walking into. Michele did though. I mean she has living in her house while her husband is still?!?!? 

That part of this whole insane story just floored me. As much of an asshole as Will clearly was, I couldn't get over how Michelle let him stay in her house with her husband and her children, and then had the nerve to get upset with him for seeing someone else. Like??? HELLO????? .Look up the word "hypocrite" in the dictionary and shut up, lady. Jesus. I'm with all of you regarding how her kids and her husband dealt with all of this. I feel bad for them most of all. 

And I find it really hard to believe she didn't know that Will had snuck Anna into the home as well (which, again, seriously, what. the. hell? Anna didn't find this at all weird? She still wanted to marry him even after this?). The pictures they showed of that house, it didn't look that big. I know she was living there with her husband and her kids and Will, but still... You can't tell me she only just was introduced to Anna around, what, New Year's Eve, they said it was? 

Quote

She has sex with him in the car and then goes back to the family Thanksgiving.

That was just...wow. Yes, totally normal to excuse oneself from Thanksgiving with their family so they can go help out their deadbeat loser of a boyfriend and have a quickie with him. Holy crap. 

The bit about them having sex did amuse me, though, because they talked about how later that night Will was running around taking care of his errands with the cash and paying his car payment and stuff and all I could think was, "You know, bud, you might've been able to do that a lot sooner if you hadn't wasted time hanging out and having sex with your girlfriend."

I also found it weird she was supposedly so jealous of Anna but is friends with her on Facebook. And then has the nerve to get mad at her for still being with him, and wearing a ring that turns out to be her wedding ring. Again, she should've spent more time worrying about her own marriage first before getting upset with someone else for seeing her boyfriend. Especially since Will clearly was trying to hide her from Michelle. And she should've been mad at Will for giving Anna the ring, since, y'know, he's the one she's seeing, not Anna. 

As for the constant texts, I was struck by the investigators talking about how so many of them had to do with her checking in with him to make sure he got up and got to work okay and whatnot. I was like, "What, is she his mom or something?" Seriously, why was he seen as the prize here again?

5 hours ago, Arkay said:

I don't think Michelle did the actual killing, but I do believe she was involved or at least knew about it. When that asshole texted her "I picked you up at your moms" so they could get the story straight, she had to know. Otherwise she'd be questioning him as to why was he biringing that up and why was he suggesting a storyline? 

Yep.. This. Exactly. And then there was a moment when she was talking about the deadline and said something that ended with "...or whatever...", and her hesitation before explaining what "Fix this" meant, and the slight smirk she seemed unable to hide at times...yeah. She absolutely knows something. 

Crazy story all around. Honestly, Michelle and Will deserve each other. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Annber03

[ByaNose]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Just watched this episode, and hoooooooooly crap, there is SO MUCH to unpack here.

Echoing every word of this. I mean, when a guy gives his new girlfriend a ring that belongs to the other woman he's seeing, and which is her wedding ring besides...any sane woman at that point, be it the one who was given the ring or the one who noticed it was their ring, would be like, "Yeeeeeeeeeah, we're done here." Talk about a true asshole move. 

The look on his face when they mentioned the garbage in the interview...he was like, "...shit, it's over." I also rolled my eyes at how he tried to make Anna out to be this crazy woman who was pretending like they were engaged. Dude, there are photos of her wearing a ring you gave her. There's video of her at a drive-thru in a wedding dress, sitting alongside you. You clearly knew her well enough to know her bank account information and take her money. Fuck off with this "LOL crazy women amirite?" BS. 

That part of this whole insane story just floored me. As much of an asshole as Will clearly was, I couldn't get over how Michelle let him stay in her house with her husband and her children, and then had the nerve to get upset with him for seeing someone else. Like??? HELLO????? .Look up the word "hypocrite" in the dictionary and shut up, lady. Jesus. I'm with all of you regarding how her kids and her husband dealt with all of this. I feel bad for them most of all. 

And I find it really hard to believe she didn't know that Will had snuck Anna into the home as well (which, again, seriously, what. the. hell? Anna didn't find this at all weird? She still wanted to marry him even after this?). The pictures they showed of that house, it didn't look that big. I know she was living there with her husband and her kids and Will, but still... You can't tell me she only just was introduced to Anna around, what, New Year's Eve, they said it was? 

That was just...wow. Yes, totally normal to excuse oneself from Thanksgiving with their family so they can go help out their deadbeat loser of a boyfriend and have a quickie with him. Holy crap. 

The bit about them having sex did amuse me, though, because they talked about how later that night Will was running around taking care of his errands with the cash and paying his car payment later that night and stuff and all I could think was, "You know, bud, you might've been able to do that a lot sooner if you hadn't wasted time hanging out and having sex with your girlfriend."

I also found it weird she was supposedly so jealous of Anna but is friends with her on Facebook. And then has the nerve to get mad at her for still being with him, and wearing a ring that turns out to be her wedding ring. Again, she should've spent more time worrying about her own marriage first before getting upset with someone else for seeing her boyfriend. Especially since Will clearly was trying to hide her from Michelle. 

As for the constant texts, I was struck by the investigators talking about how so many of them had to do with her checking in with him to make sure he got up and got to work okay and whatnot. I was like, "What, is she his mom or something?" Seriously, why was he seen as the prize here again?

Yep.. This. Exactly. And then there was a moment when she was talking about the deadline and said something that ended with "...or whatever...", and her hesitation before explaining what "Fix this" meant, and the slight smirk she seemed unable to hide at times...yeah. She absolutely knows something. 

Crazy story all around. Honestly, Michelle and Will deserve each other. 

Now, I’m drawing a blank. Were there any charges brought up against Michelle? Like accessory? I know she got questioned and started to lie but then backtracked. Like, I said before I think she knew or suspected something I can’t recall if she was charged or not. If she wasn’t she should have been.

[Annber03]

Nope, there weren't. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that might change someday, though, if any further evidence comes out proving she was involved in some way.

Regarding the comments about Will's bad acting, same could be said about her, too-her attempts to be all upset during her interview were pretty lame. 

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

At the risk of sounding shallow, when the women interviewed on the show were talking about how irresistible and charismatic he was, I was like "... Him?"

I will sound shallow.....HIM???!!

Poor Anna.  I didn't feel they spent enough time showing the viewers who she was.  She got lost in the Michelle show.  These poor foreign girlfriends/brides who are just searching for a better life.  I feel like they don't have any context to see these guys for the low down losers that they often (most often) are.  

Quote

That "Wait, whaaaaaat?" (complete with surprised Pikachu face) performance in the police interview was some of the worst acting I've ever seen.

Wouldn't the first question be, "who was murdered???".  Nah, because he already knew.  Obviously, being irresistible and charasmatic doesn't also mean you have great acting skills. 

Michelle scares me because she's a piece of garbage but she's terribly articulate.  Those are the ones you have to watch out for.  It's a dangerous combination and she knows it.   

[Fable]

I’m as confused as everyone else as to what was so appealing about Will.  I didn’t think he was particularly attractive.  He obviously was a bum who couldn’t get up for work on his own or pay his bills, and clearly he was none too bright leaving all his garbage at the scene of the crime.  Why dump a bunch of evidence for cops to find? 

Yep, Michelle definitely knows something!  And who in the hell moves their lover into their home while still married?  Neither one of these people was playing with a full deck. 

[Vivigirl10]

Regarding Michelle Martinko's murder....would anyone else have been hesitant to convict her killer based on DNA evidence alone?  I'm not saying that he didn't do it, and I do fully believe in the value of DNA, but there was absolutely no other evidence.  And with the great amount of time that had passed, it's not like he would have been able to provide an alibi for that night or anything in his own defense.  

I can think of another old case where the murderer entered through a kitchen window and left DNA on the windowsill.  The man who the DNA was traced to lived in the same apartment complex as the victim and his defense team literally argued that his DNA could have blown in an open window.  I think there was plenty of other undeniable evidence in that case though.  But this made me think of it.  

[ByaNose]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:58 PM, Kiki620 said:

Regarding Michelle Martinko's murder....would anyone else have been hesitant to convict her killer based on DNA evidence alone?  I'm not saying that he didn't do it, and I do fully believe in the value of DNA, but there was absolutely no other evidence.  And with the great amount of time that had passed, it's not like he would have been able to provide an alibi for that night or anything in his own defense.  

I can think of another old case where the murderer entered through a kitchen window and left DNA on the windowsill.  The man who the DNA was traced to lived in the same apartment complex as the victim and his defense team literally argued that his DNA could have blown in an open window.  I think there was plenty of other undeniable evidence in that case though.  But this made me think of it.  

I was sorta thinking the same thing. Murder is murder & I feel for her family but so much time had passed & he’s convicted on a little DNA alone. There is no way for him to confirm an alibi on a date 40 years ago. Now, if he had been interviewed initially I wouldn’t be as unsure but he wasn’t and I honestly couldn’t say he’s 100% guilty. Of course, if it was a family member of mine I would be all lock him up and throw away the key. It’s so random and he wasn’t from the area, didn’t work at the mall (not that it matters) and, didn’t know her. It was interesting all of the guys she did know such as the ex boyfriend and the male friend but it was a stranger. Again, not all murders are done by people that someone knows but there is that slight chance he’s not guilty. 

[Bazinga]

On 11/10/2020 at 5:49 PM, ByaNose said:

but so much time had passed & he’s convicted on a little DNA alone...

It’s so random and he wasn’t from the area...

Sorry, I have to vehemently disagree with the prevailing sentiment of the previous two posts.  It wasn't a little DNA, it was a lot of DNA, in multiple places in the vehicle, that would not be there for any other reasons (the episode mentioned that the defense tried to bring up excuses that were ridiculous in nature, IMO and the jury's).  He wasn't a suspect at the time because he was a stranger to the victim and was an unknown to investigators.  He should not be given the benefit of the doubt now because too much time has passed, as he was getting away with murder, literally, for all these many years.  That he was a stranger is why so many previous investigators assigned to the case went nowhere as the murderer had no preexisting relationship with the victim for investigators to discover.  Also, I think it was mentioned that he lived in a nearby town at the time of the killing, so there was opportunity.  DNA was really the only way he would be caught, as there were no eyewitnesses and once he left the murder scene, no other connection to the crime existed (no fingerprints, before security cameras were prevalant).  DNA caught him and I am glad for Michelle Martinko, her family and friends, and the whole city of Cedar Rapids.  I had no problem believing 100% that Jerry Lynn Burns was guilty.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Bazinga

[12catcrazy]

Look at how long it took to nab the Golden State serial killer/rapist.  He had no connection to any of his victims; didn't live in the area of many of them (he would drive long distances from where he lived), and had no criminal record or DNA in Codex.   They finally caught him the same way they caught this guy - old DNA and working backwards from genetic databases.   And he killed, what, 13 people and raped scores of women.  

When the police detective in this Iowa case says that he feels that the arrested guy might be behind other crimes, you can see why.  Intriguing that they brought up the case of the missing blond tv person who vanished and was never seen again.  That happened in Iowa as well.  

Oh, and wasn't this case recently on Dateline?  And wasn't there something mentioned that they found bondage/torture porn featuring blonds  on the arrested guy's computer?  Or am I confusing this story with another one?

[Court]

6 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Look at how long it took to nab the Golden State serial killer/rapist.  He had no connection to any of his victims; didn't live in the area of many of them (he would drive long distances from where he lived), and had no criminal record or DNA in Codex.   They finally caught him the same way they caught this guy - old DNA and working backwards from genetic databases.   And he killed, what, 13 people and raped scores of women.  

When the police detective in this Iowa case says that he feels that the arrested guy might be behind other crimes, you can see why.  Intriguing that they brought up the case of the missing blond tv person who vanished and was never seen again.  That happened in Iowa as well.  

Oh, and wasn't this case recently on Dateline?  And wasn't there something mentioned that they found bondage/torture porn featuring blonds  on the arrested guy's computer?  Or am I confusing this story with another one?

Yes it was! Dateline had a little more evidence they presented but I couldn't remember what it was. 

Or maybe it was on the genetic detective? 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Court

[Ohmo]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:36 PM, Bazinga said:

Sorry, I have to vehemently disagree with the prevailing sentiment of the previous two posts.  It wasn't a little DNA, it was a lot of DNA, in multiple places in the vehicle, that would not be there for any other reasons (the episode mentioned that the defense tried to bring up excuses that were ridiculous in nature, IMO and the jury's).  He wasn't a suspect at the time because he was a stranger to the victim and was an unknown to investigators.  He should not be given the benefit of the doubt now because too much time has passed, as he was getting away with murder, literally, for all these many years.  That he was a stranger is why so many previous investigators assigned to the case went nowhere as the murderer had no preexisting relationship with the victim for investigators to discover.  Also, I think it was mentioned that he lived in a nearby town at the time of the killing, so there was opportunity.  DNA was really the only way he would be caught, as there were no eyewitnesses and once he left the murder scene, no other connection to the crime existed (no fingerprints, before security cameras were prevalant).  DNA caught him and I am glad for Michelle Martinko, her family and friends, and the whole city of Cedar Rapids.  I had no problem believing 100% that Jerry Lynn Burns was guilty.

All of this.  Your DNA doesn't change over time, and like the young detective said, the DNA was on the gear shift on the car AND on the dress.  One of those I maybe could attribute to transfer, but both?  Nope.  By the transfer theory, it's on her dress and she just so happens to transfer that spot to the gear shift?  Highly unlikely.  It's more plausible to me that he was in the car with her killing her and THAT'S how the DNA got on the dress and the gear shift.

And another thing...his daughter and his brother bugged the crap out of me.  All that yammering on about how wonderful he was.  I believe the jailhouse snitch over them, and while they kept saying that he could never do that, I kept thinking, "Ever hear of the BTK killer?" I completely believe he could have killed Michelle and then morphed himself into Ward Cleaver for 40 years.  I also think there could possibly be legs to the theory about Jodi.  Why bring that up?  You're being charged with murder, and you just happen to mention another high-profile killing in Iowa?  I think Jerry killed Michelle, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she wasn't his only victim.

Quote

Oh, and wasn't this case recently on Dateline?  And wasn't there something mentioned that they found bondage/torture porn featuring blonds  on the arrested guy's computer?

I vaguely recall the Dateline reference to porn on Jerry's computer as well.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Ohmo

[sempervivum]

The Nicole Addimando/Chris Grover murder: I do tend to believe the woman, but this one was tough. By the end, I still wasn't sure. 

[TVbitch]

I believe her too, but I don't think there is any way she managed to get the gun away from him like she described.  I think she shot him after he fell asleep. Probably thought that was the only way she and the kids would ever be free.

[12catcrazy]

I agree with TVbitch on this one.  I also think it was a crime that her medical records and the pornhub stuff was not allowed to be presented in court.  

And if you think about it, if this guy wasnt abusing her, what would have been her motive in killing him?  It didnt appear that she had a job nor did she have a side guy.  If Chris Grover was the family's breadwinner, what did she gain?  

I've known a few women who had been in abusive situations.  One of them finally killed her abuser (while he slept).  He told her that he'd kill her if she ever left and she finally decided it was going to be him or her.  I dont know if she was convicted (I moved before her trial)  - all I can say is that from reading the papers, orders of protection aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

[Court]

I do think he was abusive but I'm torn on whether she was justified or not. 

[LittleIggy]

That prosecutor acted as if she had a personal grudge against Nicole. She didn’t come off well.

[Hava]

The Nicole Addimando story was rage-inducing. The prosecutor regurgitated so many myths about domestic violence (e.g., "why didn't she just leave?") that I couldn't believe it. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Hava said:

The Nicole Addimando story was rage-inducing. The prosecutor regurgitated so many myths about domestic violence (e.g., "why didn't she just leave?") that I couldn't believe it. 

God, this. And even if they thought the idea she was manipulative had merit, well, considering she was assaulted as a child, I mean, that's bound to mess someone up. At the very least, it would show she needs help more than she does jail time. I was shocked to see she's in jail until...what was it, 2036, they said? I've seen rapists and child abusers get less time than that. 

But yeah, it's not exactly a stretch to believe that a woman who's been abused at a young age would find themselves in that pattern again as an adult. There's lots of stories to back up that possibility. And there were a lot of people and documents backing up her claims of abuse and her injuries, so either they're all being fooled/manipulated/told to lie for her or whatever, too, or there's some truth to what they witnessed and heard about. 

I can buy the idea that the killing wasn't accidental, though. I can totally see her getting so fed up and finally, upon seeing her chance when he was sleeping, taking it and shooting him and trying to escape. And then when the cop got involved, she panicked and came up with the story of the fight. 

4 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

all I can say is that from reading the papers, orders of protection aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

So true. Just look at all the true crime stories we've seen about women who get restraining orders, only for the guys to just ignore them altogether or find ways to adhere to them while still managing to stalk and harass the woman. They always find a way. As someone pointed out in the episode itself, there have been women who have up and left, like everyone says they should, and the abuser still found them and hurt or killed them. 

I also felt like Chris' mom was the sort who refused to believe her son could do anything wrong. It's one thing to want to defend a family member accused of a crime, I can understand that reaction on a general level, but I just got the sense that she'd be all, "Not my son, he's perfect!" no matter the situation. I appreciate that they pointed out that a lot of abusers can come off as very friendly, nice people in public. That's kind of the whole point, after all-that's how they fool people. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I wonder what Chris' mom thought about her perfect boy's porn site? I mean it isn't like he was just viewing porn, he was using Nicole to actually act out scenes and post them on site. And did the prosecutor really think that Chris was being set up, when he was obviously the one posting to the porn site? The prosecutor in particular was one scary woman. Making excuses for the burn on Nicole, that it must have happened when she curled her hair? Talk about grasping at straws. I can't believe that woman apparently advocates for abused women. Yikes. 

[ByaNose]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

God, this. And even if they thought the idea she was manipulative had merit, well, considering she was assaulted as a child, I mean, that's bound to mess someone up. At the very least, it would show she needs help more than she does jail time. I was shocked to see she's in jail until...what was it, 2036, they said? I've seen rapists and child abusers get less time than that. 

But yeah, it's not exactly a stretch to believe that a woman who's been abused at a young age would find themselves in that pattern again as an adult. There's lots of stories to back up that possibility. And there were a lot of people and documents backing up her claims of abuse and her injuries, so either they're all being fooled/manipulated/told to lie for her or whatever, too, or there's some truth to what they witnessed and heard about. 

I can buy the idea that the killing wasn't accidental, though. I can totally see her getting so fed up and finally, upon seeing her chance when he was sleeping, taking it and shooting him and trying to escape. And then when the cop got involved, she panicked and came up with the story of the fight. 

So true. Just look at all the true crime stories we've seen about women who get restraining orders, only for the guys to just ignore them altogether or find ways to adhere to them while still managing to stalk and harass the woman. They always find a way. As someone pointed out in the episode itself, there have been women who have up and left, like everyone says they should, and the abuser still found them and hurt or killed them. 

I also felt like Chris' mom was the sort who refused to believe her son could do anything wrong. It's one thing to want to defend a family member accused of a crime, I can understand that reaction on a general level, but I just got the sense that she'd be all, "Not my son, he's perfect!" no matter the situation. I appreciate that they pointed out that a lot of abusers can come off as very friendly, nice people in public. That's kind of the whole point, after all-that's how they fool people. 

My little “Johnny” wouldn’t do anything wrong. I don’t think her son was an angel but the mother didn’t believe any of that and wouldn’t admit to any wrong doing by the son. The word denial comes to mind. 

[heatherchandler]

On 11/22/2020 at 10:19 PM, Hava said:

The Nicole Addimando story was rage-inducing. The prosecutor regurgitated so many myths about domestic violence (e.g., "why didn't she just leave?") that I couldn't believe it. 

Right?  It’s like textbook abuse situation 101.  That the prosecutor is so ill informed on this subject is really horrifying.

[biakbiak]

On 11/22/2020 at 7:49 PM, LittleIggy said:

That prosecutor acted as if she had a personal grudge against Nicole. She didn’t come off well.

Seriously when she said something like she was happy for the family but took no personal pleasure, it was so obvious she was lying. I really did not like her. Would be curious to know the office’s record on domestic violence cases.

Edited November 28, 2020 by biakbiak
J

[LittleIggy]

Episode where the girl disappeared at Cal. Poly: Wow, the cops really effed up that case! What incredible incompetence! The detail of the girl’s buried watch alarming every morning was chilling. That guy was as guilty as sin! He took the Fifth on giving his father’s name, for Pete’s sake!

Edited November 30, 2020 by LittleIggy

[PikaScrewChu]

11 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Episode where the girl disappeared at Cal. Poly: Wow, the cops really effed up that case! What incredible incompetence! The detail of the girl’s buried watch alarming every morning was chilling. That guy was as guilty as sin! He took the Fifth on giving his father’s name, for Pete’s sake!

I hadn't heard of the case before and it just blew my mind how many mistakes were made. Campus police not taking the disappearance seriously was only the beginning. Then it just kept going on and on to the point I was wondering if there is a police equivalent of Dr. Nick from The Simpsons in real life. If so, they were clearly working on this case.

I've been listening to a lot of unsolved crime podcasts recently where there is no suspect and limited amounts of evidence. I couldn't imagine as a parent having the suspect right there, evidence "go missing", half-hearted searches, and still be living the nightmare 24 years later of trying to find out what happened to your kid. 

[biakbiak]

I had actually heard a little bit about the case because I have a friend who was lived in the dorm at the time so it was something she mentioned a few times, just in a things that happened in college. Based on all of her experiences at Cal Poly and in SLO, the idiotic police work is not surprising.

[LittleIggy]

This episode emphasized the importance of the “Buddy system.” Never leave a friend, especially a visibly intoxicated friend, alone with a guy. Make sure she gets home.

[Ohmo]

On 11/22/2020 at 10:31 PM, Court said:

I do think he was abusive but I'm torn on whether she was justified or not. 

This.  The parent from the gym who called CPS leads me to believe Chris was abusive. However, Nicole's credibility also took a hit when she was accusing multiple men of abusing her.  There was an ex before Chris that she accused, along with a maintenance man.  Even giving her some leeway given the fact that she was raped as a child, it's difficult to not question her credibility on some level when she's accusing many different men in different situations in her life, not only Chris.

[txhorns79]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:58 PM, Kiki620 said:

Regarding Michelle Martinko's murder....would anyone else have been hesitant to convict her killer based on DNA evidence alone?  I'm not saying that he didn't do it, and I do fully believe in the value of DNA, but there was absolutely no other evidence.  And with the great amount of time that had passed, it's not like he would have been able to provide an alibi for that night or anything in his own defense.  

I was deeply uncomfortable with the case.  I didn't really believe in the defense theory about DNA getting in the car in ways other than the guy being the murderer.  However, and maybe this is just 48 Hours style manipulation, but the crime did seem like it was done by someone who knew her, so to have it be a complete stranger is very surprising.  

I also caught the Jennifer Kesse case.  Those missing person ones are just the worst.  It's horrible to not know what happened.  Though given the time that has passed, I presume she is dead.  I felt like there were a lot of mistakes made by the family and police.  It seemed as though the family unknowingly contaminated the potential crime scene, and the police did not initially take the case seriously.  I don't know if I believe the private investigator's theory of the crime.

[nora1992]

The Mississippi case was confusing and I could see both sides of the issue, until the friend tried to take the money from the credit union.  That put me on the side of Christian’s parents: he had time to go to the credit union but never thought of getting help from EMS or Christian’s family? 

[LakeGal]

I really do not know if it was suicide or an accident while fighting over the gun.  But I do think the girlfriend and buddy lied about time of death.  I think the buddy wanted to get to the bank and take the money out first.  That means there was a cover up of the crime scene.  

Parents always want to think their child could not be suicidal.  Sadly parents do not always know what is going on with their child. I think it could have been suicide.  Or there was a fight over the gun when he was threatening to use it.  It could have been accidental.