S01.E08: This Young Woman Fought Like Hell

[walnutqueen]

19 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

think it is because Vicky from Real Housewives of OC attached herself to this story.  Vicky was no victim!  She pulled a cancer scam with Crooks!

CSC!!!! (cancer scamming cunt).  She can try for revisionist history all the livelong day - we know better,  She's no victim - she's a grotesque.

 

16 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

Does the hospital really allow the dog to stay with her?  Because I thought that was awesome.  Terra and the dog are the only ones I don't despise on this show

I think I saw a picture of her with her dog on the hospital bed.  Frankly, I think all hospitals should allow pets ...

A Mother's instinct is to protect the child - at all costs.  Apparently, there are a lot of people who should not be parents.

[teddysmom]

38 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

Does the hospital really allow the dog to stay with her?  Because I thought that was awesome.  Terra and the dog are the only ones I don't despise on this show.  

Hospitals are pretty cool at allowing animals in with patients, they have such recuperative powers and ease stress.

[Thisgirllovespasta]

39 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

Thank you!  This enraged me too!  Your daughter just barely survived an attack by a grown ass man, and has KILLED SOMEONE.  Can you give her a minute to breathe, you selfish bitch?

Does the hospital really allow the dog to stay with her?  Because I thought that was awesome.  Terra and the dog are the only ones I don't despise on this show.  

Yes they let the dog stay with her in the hospital. if I recall from the podcast she said something like that the only  way she would go to the hospital is if she could bring her dog.

 

[newyawk]

45 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

I hate to trash the victims, but Debra's assault on her family only continued when she immediately called the LA Times - she opened up her family to ridicule and questioning.  I get an uncomfortable famewhore vibes from her.  Glad to be done with this story.

Well, the L.A. Times called her first.  I do believe Debra called them back to tell the story because it is an extreme cautionary tale about what can happen with some of the sociopaths out there in the dating world if you aren't careful. 

One thing I saw a lot in some of the social media comments is how "I would never use online dating!"  I have used online dating successfully in the past, so it isn't about that platform. Things like Dirty John can happen whether you connect online or hook up in a bar, or meet at a park, etc.  Unstable/dangerous people are everywhere, and it all comes down to you to use your good judgment, do your research, don't rush things and pay attention to your hunches and potential red flags. 

[hottesthw]

42 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

Wait?  So, the girl that killed John was supposed to be 25?

 

I am so confused. Quite frankly don’t care to look up the true story.

 

I love true crime...but, not giving this one any attention.

 

I think it is because Vicky from Real Housewives of OC attached herself to this story.  Vicky was no victim!  She pulled a cancer scam with Crooks!

I have a hard time looking at Debra as a victim after this. How she thinks she has any right being out there speaking to victims of domestic violence is beyond me. She was a willing participant. One who was presented with damning evidence over and over again (by her own children), and in response, alienated her kids and went back to him over and over again. 

Women stay with abusive men (and end up dying) because they can't escape, because they don't have the means to run, because they have little babies to protect. This fucking idiot went out and bought a few wigs and then took them off when she went to visit him (against her own restraining order). Put her grown children in harm's way so she can ask one more time if he really loved her. Yea Deb, go tell that mother of 3 with the black eye living in a shelter about how hard this all was for you, wondering if the good looking Dr really loves you or not.

Well at least in the end her nutty mother forgave her because you know, none of this was her fault. Pffft.

I've got no pity for any of them (looking at their current Instagrams they're doing just fine and enjoying the premier).

After watching the Oxygen special, Tonia and the 2 girls were the real victims here.

[newyawk]

Abusive relationships are not just about physical or financial circumstances, there is a huge psychological component at play also. 

[hottesthw]

4 minutes ago, newyawk said:

Well, the L.A. Times called her first.  I do believe Debra called them back to tell the story because it is an extreme cautionary tale about what can happen with some of the sociopaths out there in the dating world if you aren't careful. 

 Unstable/dangerous people are everywhere, and it all comes down to you to use your good judgment, do your research, don't rush things and pay attention to your hunches and potential red flags. 

ITA. And you know when you find a drawer full of paperwork listing all of his various crimes and jail stints you pack your shit and go. On to the next one.

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, newyawk said:

One thing I saw a lot in some of the social media comments is how "I would never use online dating!"  I have used online dating successfully in the past, so it isn't about that platform. Things like Dirty John can happen whether you connect online or hook up in a bar, or meet at a park, etc.  Unstable/dangerous people are everywhere, and it all comes down to you to use your good judgment, do your research, don't rush things and pay attention to your hunches and potential red flags. 

Yeah, it's not about online dating at all. I can think of at least six married couples I know personally off the top of my head who met online; I'v been a bridesmaid in several Match.com weddings. It's increasingly become how people meet nowadays, at least people in my generation (I'm on the older end of the millennial generation). (I ran into a high school classmate at a mutual friend's party last year and she was newly married. Her husband was there too. I asked how they met and he said "How does anybody meet these days?" and mimed typing.) Debra was very, very foolish - she didn't do any due diligence (a cursory Google search would have turned up all his crimes, at the very least) and she shouldn't have married him after only knowing him for two months, but John would have been John whether she met him online or in the grocery store. I mean, Tania met him at a bar. The NA leader he was blackmailing met him in NA. He was a bad person, period.

I found the attack scene fairly underwhelming. I thought Connie Britton did a great job in the scene in the bathroom stall where it was all washing over her how stupid she'd been and how bad it could have been. The scene where she was surprised he was already online dating, as though this was a real breakup and he wasn't just trolling websites looking for his next victim, made me want to smack her. 

[patty1h]

Hmmm, I knew how it was going to end but I think the last hour of this series could have been a little more suspenseful.  The thing that took me out the most is that Debra almost never lost that vapid look or got any stress in her voice, even when hearing her daughter gasping over the phone after being attacked.  Also, when they showed her walking down the hallway of the hospital to find Tara, she was barely walking fast.  Most mothers would have been running and hyperventilating - Debra barely showed any emotion.   Those choices just took the wind out of any tension and made the hour slog by.

[newyawk]

Maybe Debra's underreaction was a combination of shock, disbelief that it was finally over and she was free, and her difficulty in accepting that her judgment was so, so off.

 

I'm choosing to believe that when it really sank in, she finally let loose.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

 

My point about the festival is that the Mother cannot track her own daughter and keep her safe.

If there is drinking, drugging, partying it would lower her sense of security.  The festival sounds like a Coachella type. 

 

Unless they are in the same room, Debra already isn't able to"track her"--and even if she were, what is Debra able to do do to protect her that Terra, the adult, couldn't do herself?  

We don't know what--or if--she'd be drinking or whatever.  And if it's like Coachella, then, like I said, good luck to DJ in even finding her among the 12 bazillion people there.

Quote

You have to remember Debra invited most of this into her life. She failed to hire personal security.....which she could easily afford. Instead, bought a wig for herself but not the girls!

They are adults! And, no, as dumb as she was, she did not "invite" this into her life. Ugh.

[hottesthw]

Problem I have with it, is after watching all her current appearances, she really thinks she played no part in this. So maybe she was in shock when it was happening but she's had plenty of time to process now (enough time to smile and enjoy all her new found fame), and she still sounds like a stupid school girl in love. 

[athousandclowns]

9 minutes ago, hottesthw said:

Problem I have with it, is after watching all her current appearances, she really thinks she played no part in this. So maybe she was in shock when it was happening but she's had plenty of time to process now (enough time to smile and enjoy all her new found fame), and she still sounds like a stupid school girl in love. 

If her wish to have shown more of the “romance “ she is as dumb as a box of hair. There was no romance you brainless looser. She was 59 when she let him in her life and continued to put her family at risk. 

[kicksave]

52 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

If her wish to have shown more of the “romance “ she is as dumb as a box of hair. There was no romance you brainless looser. She was 59 when she let him in her life and continued to put her family at risk. 

I have to agree with you...I think a woman of her stature, in terms of her well established business contacts and the many people she must have known throughout her life in Southern California, would be able to get dates with decent men that have careers and reputations that she could easily research. However, her lazy, ignorant attitude towards online dating is cringe worthy. No Google research or even a deep dive after she met him into his job etc...just baffles me. She was so needy of a man she carelessly went on an Internet date without doing any cursory detective work on who he is...worse, she had him come to her house on the first meet up! That is a HUGE no no...was she just dumb? Or just so needy of a man's attention that she disregarded any safety measures and went all in. When John met her he hit the jackpot...she was the perfect target for his sociopathic scamming. 

Someone mentioned the Dr. Phil show in a previous post on here...which begs the question...how many shows has Dr. Phil done about the scams involving online dating? At least a dozen. Mostly they have involved Nigerian scammers grooming lonely widows or divorcees out of hundreds of thousands of dollars...the women (and men) who have been scammed this way never meet the scammers. The level of deviousness involved with Dirty John case is unique...he was able to insinuate himself into her life almost immediately. It is inconceivable to me how a woman with business acumen and success could be so blind to what he was doing and when she found out she continued to put her children in danger. Debra reminds me of Vicki Gunvalsen of Real Housewives of Orange County. She was smoked by Brooks what his face in a similar fashion...though no violent was involved. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by kicksave

[HunterHunted]

13 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

The only thing she did right was not make the decision on pulling the plug. That could get her sue. 

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Sued by whom? I would have said to pull it before they even finished asking the question. 

1 hour ago, Dance4Life said:

A good lawyer can turn this around and say that Debra pulled the plug because she didn’t want to pay for him or be out any more money in the divorce.  She didn’t give his family a chance to say good-bye, etc.

You have to remember Debra invited most of this into her life. She failed to hire personal security.....which she could easily afford. Instead, bought a wig for herself but not the girls!

Her divorce was going to be messy and expensive.

I believe John has children who can legally inherit his divorce settlement, etc.  Even the sister can go after her. 

This is how it works in my state.  You have to remember there is no room in the law for.....’eye for an eye.’  

(No pun intended)

This is the only compliment she gets from me.  She did the right thing by not involving herself in ‘his ultimate death.’

 

 

California, like most states, has laws about what to do if a patient needs life sustaining treatment. Assuming the patient didn't already have an advance directive, the hospital has to contact a surrogate decision-maker to make that decision (spouse, relative, or friend) to make that decision. Many states have a priority about who to ask--spouse being first, adult relative (parent/child, sibling, or other relative), and then a friend. If there is an issue like Debra's estrangement from John and the police suspected foul play, the hospital is free to go to the courts to get John a guardian ad litem. Assuming California is one of these states, Debra had the absolute right to terminate life sustaining treatment, especially became there was no indication that Debra had anything to do with his death. And absent any unbelievably crass or cynical statements by Debra, she's really allowed to terminate life sustaining treatment because of cost. At that point, he wasn't getting better so concerns about the divorce are moot. And she doesn't have to allow his family the right to say goodbye. If his other family (siblings or children) felt that Debra shouldn't be making these decisions, they were perfectly free to go a court and get a restraining order to prevent her from withdrawing life sustaining treatment.

As to his family inheriting his divorce settlement, they actually can't.* When he died, he was still married to Debra. Assuming she wasn't a slayer who was complicit in his death, all community property (money and assets they acquired while married) go to Debra. Of the property and assets he had before he got married, Debra inherits 1/3 of that and his children inherit the rest. It's covered in the California Intestate Succession law.

And no, Debra declining to continue with life sustaining treatment for John for the injuries he acquired from his attacking Tara doesn't make Deb complicit in his death. Debra declined being involved in his end of life care because even in the best of times, she made HORRIBLE decisions regarding John. I think she was finally understanding that she was a dumb dummy who couldn't be trusted.

*I had an uncle, by marriage, who was in the process of divorcing his 3rd wife when he died. His will included a provision that his lawyer continue with the divorce because he didn't want his estranged wife getting more money than he'd outlined in the will and prior divorce documents. His lawyer repeatedly told him that the provision was not valid. When my uncle died, his attorney felt like he had to do his due diligence. He took the matter to the Judicial Section--Probate Division of the State Bar. They quickly ruled that his estranged wife would get what she was entitled to under statute and none of divorce foolishness would be entertained. The rest would be disbursed to his children and any other beneficiaries outlined in his will. There were none because he was an awful fucking person. Admittedly, it wasn't California, but most states operate the same way.

[HunterHunted]

9 minutes ago, kicksave said:

Someone mentioned the Dr. Phil show in a previous post on here...which begs the question...how many shows has Dr. Phil done about the scams involving online dating? At least a dozen. Mostly they have involved Nigerian scammers grooming lonely widows or divorcees out of hundreds of thousands of dollars...the women (and men) who have been scammed this way never meet the scammers. The level of deviousness involved with Dirty John case is unique...he was able to insinuate himself into her life almost immediately. It is inconceivable to me how a woman with business acumen and success could be so blind to what he was doing and when she found out she continued to put her children in danger. Debra reminds me of Vicki Gunvalsen of Real Housewives of Orange County. She was smoked by Brooks what his face in a similar fashion...though no violent was involved. 

He also met this wealthy author who had just had brain surgery. He pretended to be her anesthesiologist. They started dating. He convinced her to transfer $37 million into his accounts until one of her friends stepped in and stopped her from going through with it.

[65mickey]

This woman is still talking about dating again in an US Weekly article written yesterday. Let's see 5 marriages with the last one almost killed her child and she is still concerned about finding companionship and being in love. Unbelievable. 

[newyawk]

Well, why should she give up? If finding real love is important to her, as it is to most people, she deserves to find it. She may be dim and willfully blind, but she isn't a miscreant.

[Ohwell]

I agree.  There are plenty of crooked men out there just waiting for their chance to scam her.  I say, let them have her! 

[TattleTeeny]

I don't think she needs to give up the idea of ever having relationships, but instead learn when to give up on--or never start--specific ones.

[Starlight925]

Debra shouldn't have to give up on finding love.  She should be a million times more careful, and do her due diligence, but I get it.

I mean, his first wife Tania has been remarried now for over a decade to a wonderful man.

I'm in Debra's age range and single, and I've met and dated many, many people online.

Last night while my (happily married) sister was watching, she texted me "OK you're never going to date again!"  

Of course, I will date again, but this story will have my fingers poised on google.  I've always firmly believed in not googling someone before the date, just be surprised, isn't that wonderful, la la la.  Not anymore.  So I do appreciate Debra's openness in sharing her story as a cautionary tale.

[EdnasEdibles]

I don't begrudge her the ability to date again but she certainly needs to develop a checklist where she figures out how to do a background check, clear her choice with at least her oldest daughter and then also write-up a prenup before she walks down the aisle again. 

[atlantaloves]

Did anyone besides me think Chanel was paying to have their handbags constantly on stupid Debbie's arm? God, this show was so bad, I can't believe I watched it. (Hey, I'm retired, I can do anything I want, ha) 

Edited January 14, 2019 by atlantaloves
typo

[Ohwell]

Any decent man wanting to date Debra will catch undeserved hell from her daughters because they will never trust him and will try to be all up in his business.  

[Starlight925]

12 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I don't begrudge her the ability to date again but she certainly needs to develop a checklist where she figures out how to do a background check, clear her choice with at least her oldest daughter and then also write-up a prenup before she walks down the aisle again. 

Oh absolutely!  I had a less intense DJ situation of my own that I ended last year.  Wanted to move in with me really fast, the whole lovebombing thing.  I insisted on a lawyer, for a living-together type of legal agreement, and I updated my will (he was not in it).  Sort of took the air out of his "romance" for me, and he never moved in, thankfully.  But yeah, she should seek legal counsel and Dr. Google next go-round.

 

9 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Did anyone besides me think Chanel was paying to have their handbags constantly on stupid Debbie's arm? God, this show was so bad, I can't believe I watched it. (Hey, I'm retired, I can can anything I want, ha) 

She wore a lot of Chanel bags in real life.  It's a total status symbol, not just to have one, but to be able to change them with each outfit the way she did.  I was green with envy at all the Chanel. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Sterling

[biakbiak]

18 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Any decent man wanting to date Debra will catch undeserved hell from her daughters because they will never trust him and will try to be all up in his business.  

She had an extremely shifty track record before John so more likely they would do similar things they did with John, they were fairly suspicious of him from jump.

[DrSparkles]

Sweet baby jesus, he’s digging a grave!!

I’m worried for her cute assistant...

Best uber driver EVER?!?!

I like Ronni, she’s ride or die. Also, ‘top 5 favorite chill-wave albums’! Dead!

’I don’t know honey, do you want to call the cops?’ STUPID  DEBRA

Terra & her dog fighting him off  HELL  YEAH!!!

I hope Denise has a long, happy life now that’s she’s free of that turd brother.

Couldn't they have given Terra a gown or something so she’s not sitting in blood-soaked clothes??

She was very kind; miss you Ava Crowder! 

Even his organs sucked!!!  WORD!

Edited January 14, 2019 by DrSparkles

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Unless they are in the same room, Debra already isn't able to"track her"--and even if she were, what is Debra able to do do to protect her that Terra, the adult, couldn't do herself?  

We don't know what--or if--she'd be drinking or whatever.  And if it's like Coachella, then, like I said, good luck to DJ in even finding her among the 12 bazillion people there.

They are adults! And, no, as dumb as she was, she did not "invite" this into her life. Ugh.

Yes, Terra was 25. Not a lot most mothers could do to stop an adult child from attending a music festival if that’s What they want to do.

[Jillybean]

According to the podcast, Terra was going to see Jason Aldean at a local venue that night -- not to an out-of-town music festival. That was one of the fictionalized aspects of the episode, as was (I believe) the Uber driver and his involvement.

[gotta watch]

48 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Sweet baby jesus, he’s digging a grave!!

I’m worried for her cute assistant...

Best uber driver EVER?!?!

I like Ronni, she’s ride or die. Also, ‘top 5 favorite chill-wave albums’! Dead!

’I don’t know honey, do you want to call the cops?’ STUPID  DEBRA

Terra & her dog fighting him off  HELL  YEAH!!!

I hope Denise has a long, happy life now that’s she’s free of that turd brother.

Couldn't they have given Terra a gown or something so she’s not sitting in blood-soaked clothes??

She was very kind; miss you Ava Crowder! 

Even his organs sucked!!!  WORD!

@DrSparkles are you me?! Yes to every word of your post!

[65mickey]

Good lord I can't believe some of the  responses that I am seeing.  5 Marriages and still think she should keep looking  for love. Oh well If I were her daughters I would say to Debra you are on your own Mom. Have had it moron. 

[Dance4Life]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

California, like most states, has laws about what to do if a patient needs life sustaining treatment. Assuming the patient didn't already have an advance directive, the hospital has to contact a surrogate decision-maker to make that decision (spouse, relative, or friend) to make that decision. Many states have a priority about who to ask--spouse being first, adult relative (parent/child, sibling, or other relative), and then a friend. If there is an issue like Debra's estrangement from John and the police suspected foul play, the hospital is free to go to the courts to get John a guardian ad litem. Assuming California is one of these states, Debra had the absolute right to terminate life sustaining treatment, especially became there was no indication that Debra had anything to do with his death. And absent any unbelievably crass or cynical statements by Debra, she's really allowed to terminate life sustaining treatment because of cost. At that point, he wasn't getting better so concerns about the divorce are moot. And she doesn't have to allow his family the right to say goodbye. If his other family (siblings or children) felt that Debra shouldn't be making these decisions, they were perfectly free to go a court and get a restraining order to prevent her from withdrawing life sustaining treatment.

As to his family inheriting his divorce settlement, they actually can't.* When he died, he was still married to Debra. Assuming she wasn't a slayer who was complicit in his death, all community property (money and assets they acquired while married) go to Debra. Of the property and assets he had before he got married, Debra inherits 1/3 of that and his children inherit the rest. It's covered in the California Intestate Succession law.

And no, Debra declining to continue with life sustaining treatment for John for the injuries he acquired from his attacking Tara doesn't make Deb complicit in his death. Debra declined being involved in his end of life care because even in the best of times, she made HORRIBLE decisions regarding John. I think she was finally understanding that she was a dumb dummy who couldn't be trusted.

*I had an uncle, by marriage, who was in the process of divorcing his 3rd wife when he died. His will included a provision that his lawyer continue with the divorce because he didn't want his estranged wife getting more money than he'd outlined in the will and prior divorce documents. His lawyer repeatedly told him that the provision was not valid. When my uncle died, his attorney felt like he had to do his due diligence. He took the matter to the Judicial Section--Probate Division of the State Bar. They quickly ruled that his estranged wife would get what she was entitled to under statute and none of divorce foolishness would be entertained. The rest would be disbursed to his children and any other beneficiaries outlined in his will. There were none because he was an awful fucking person. Admittedly, it wasn't California, but most states operate the same way.

Like I said, anyone can file a lawsuit  for anything.  The lawsuit gets filed and then it is what it is. Most of the time people settle.  Someone like Debra would settle. 

 

She didn’t even know if she had $80,000 or $200,000 in that LV duffel bag in her rental house....probably had housekeepers, etc.

 

But, oh no!  Let’s get a bank box for the PASSPORTS!  lol!

 

Then you had the daughter with a fridge size safe out in the open  locking up her $2,000.... PURSES!

 

Debra was a mess! 

 

About the divorce it is true.  You are entitled to what the law allows for in your state.  So, the 3rd wife did get her settlement. What she didn’t get was any extras she was asking for that were not protected by the law and promises she could not prove.  Such as letters, informal papers signed by notary, agreeing to such things.

 

 

 

My parents had a late in life divorce.  My dad died before the divorce was settled.  If the divorce is already filed it is a complete game changer.

 

This happened in my community property state. As my dad’s only beneficiary I received his divorce settlement.  That was money and property that legally belongs to my dad. My mom was also ordered to split things with me that were not community property. 

 

Yep! We audited my mom and dad finances and my dad’s part was awarded to me. 

 

 Half the house and all. The house was paid in full. My mom sold the house and I got a check for half the amount. 

 

I also got my inheritance and his life insurance.  My dad took my mom off the life insurance when she filed for divorce.

 

I did not even ask for it.  My lawyer said it was mine. I told him I wanted my mom to have the divorce settlement because I did not want to be involved in any that.

 

  Lawyer said that wasn’t my choice to make.  His job and the judges job was to protect my rights.

 

If I wanted to give it to my mom after it was awarded to me.....that I could do that.

 

To sprinkle salt on the wound.  My mom was not allowed to attend the funeral as my paternal grandma took over. 

She asked the military to allow her to attend the burial and receive a flag. They told her no.  She can only come after we were all gone. My grandma and I received the flags. 

 

The legal divorce filing ‘ceased all marital’ privileges.  I gave her my flag.

 

I am pretty sure a lot of ‘divorcing surviving spouses’ get away with a lot of things..........legal or not...........good or bad...........but, in this case it didn’t work out for my mom.

 

Even us talking about this may not matter much.  It is always best to consult with a good attorney and even my outcome may not be an option today for others.  Laws change.

 

For people reading this and a light went off in your head.  Don’t go by what the internet tells you.  Use my mom’s story as a cautionary tale. The way this worked out for her was not good.  At least I was her own daughter.

 

Can you imagine if it was a step-child that she never even knew......legally allowed to inherit a bulk of her ‘marriage money’.......?  This is how the law is designed.

I suggest all women in long term marriages check their marital  finances and visit a lawyer just to stay on track.

 

If my mom requested my dad add his life insurance to her divorce settlement it would have increased her payout significantly.  But, you never think people are going to die. And, they do. When least expected.

[Empress1]

50 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Good lord I can't believe some of the  responses that I am seeing.  5 Marriages and still think she should keep looking  for love. Oh well If I were her daughters I would say to Debra you are on your own Mom. Have had it moron. 

I agree. In my opinion, Debra needs years of therapy before she should even consider dating and if that means she never dates again, so be it. There are worse things than being single (like your husband trying to murder your daughter, for instance). Treat dating and love like an addiction (because I think for her, it is) and go cold turkey while she really digs deep to find out WHY she chases love so much, why she thought it made sense to marry a man she'd known for two months, recognize that her mother fucked her up by siding with her sister's killer and untangle that ... If I were either of the daughters and she came to me talking about "I met someone," my impulse would be to clock her. Especially Terra, who is still battling PTSD from the last man Debra brought around and will likely wear the scar from the knife wound forever. John was the worst of the worst, but Debra was perfect for him - she was able to shrug off the red flags because she's straight up desperate for love (again: not a coincidence that she has four ex-husbands and who knows how many boyfriends) AND she and her sister were clearly raised to put men first. Until she gets all that sorted out, she has no business dating. Buy a vibrator or hire a gigolo and keep it moving.

[newyawk]

58 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Good lord I can't believe some of the  responses that I am seeing.  5 Marriages and still think she should keep looking  for love. Oh well If I were her daughters I would say to Debra you are on your own Mom. Have had it moron. 

Why should she stop? Liz Taylor didn't stop after 7 marriages.  Other than money and power, the desire for love is the most driving force there is.

[mythoughtis]

The daughter was 25, and seemingly self supporting ( the age matters more) . She didn’t live with Debra. Debra couldn’t have stopped her from going to the festival.    I’ve read about people  who have tried to stop their daughters wedding by preventing her getting to the ceremony and have landed in serious legal trouble.  

I felt the attack scene was badly done.  Based on Terra’s injuries as shown, her self defense was pretty over the top by the time she got done.  In real life, she was much more badly injured and I’m guessing the attack wasn’t stopped so quickly.   

Its hard to know what parts of this show were real and what was drama. I cannot imagine a Lyft or Uber driver doing any of that.  Especially the stay in front of the apartment building all night. 

You have to wonder what caused John to attack Terra. What did he gain? On the other hand- we see idiot exes ( of either gender) attacking their supposed love, or that loves’ new partner for unknown reasons a lot. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Tabbygirl521]

I just can’t get over Debra not kicking John’s ass to the curb after his first “joke” about putting a bullet in her daughter’s head. That alone would have earned him a world of hurt from me. 

[AmandaPanda]

7 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

What was with the scene of Terra's boss (?) questioning her about her weekend activities?  Was she set up to do that by DJ?  Did I blink and miss something?  It seemed disconnected from the rest of the show.

I hate to trash the victims, but Debra's assault on her family only continued when she immediately called the LA Times - she opened up her family to ridicule and questioning.  I get an uncomfortable famewhore vibes from her.  Glad to be done with this story.

I think the scene with the boss was just INCREDIBLY clunky exposition to show that she was going to her apartment after work. I was laughing at how horribly written that scene was. 

The timeline on the show for when the LA Times contacted her wasn't quite correct. The actual attack happened in August 2016 and the podcast wasn't released until October 2017. He spent about a year researching the story and putting the podcast together, but it's not like Terra was still in the hospital when he originally contacted Debra. He saw the story of the attack and started digging deeper, but he did more background research on John Meehan before he actually contacted Debra. The portrayal on the show kinda paints Debra as a total famewhore. There's no doubting she may have become that, but I don't know that she really was at the beginning of all this. 

7 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Glad this is over.  The mind blowing dumbness, the baby voices, the vocal fry, the entitled bitchiness frayed my last nerve.  The daughters were legal adults but I can understand why some viewers may have thought they were teens.  The older one acted like a “Clueless” and “Mean Girl” 17 year old.  Her bitchy way of speaking to everyone is atrocious.  Nasty attitude with anyone she deems “lower” than she is??? What was that whole Lyft scene (after the car chase) supposed to be...”meet cute” rom-com trope?  The younger one spoke like a 3 year old and had the IQ to match.  Talking about killing zombies???  If this is an accurate portrayal of the daughters, then Debra is to blame for more than her own stupidity.

That was another thing they clumsily tried to insert into the show. In real life, Terra was a big fan of The Walking Dead and would talk about what to do in case of the zombie apocalypse. I know lots of people who will just jokingly talk about what they would do in case of that scenario. I think they were trying to show that she was using her knowledge of how to kill "zombies" during the attack from John, but these writers were just too clumsy to make that fit in naturally. 

27 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

You have to wonder what caused John to attack Terra. What did he gain? On the other hand- we see idiot exes ( of either gender) attacking their supposed love, or that loves’ new partner for unknown reasons a lot. 

By that time, I truly think John was so strung out and angry that it's almost like he had a psychotic break. He was with it enough to plan everything out, but the actual attack was so sloppy compared to his other cons. 

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

That was another thing they clumsily tried to insert into the show. In real life, Terra was a big fan of The Walking Dead and would talk about what to do in case of the zombie apocalypse. I know lots of people who will just jokingly talk about what they would do in case of that scenario. I think they were trying to show that she was using her knowledge of how to kill "zombies" during the attack from John, but these writers were just too clumsy to make that fit in naturally. 

Yeah, I kept waiting for Terra to mention The Walking Dead and/or zombies during the show. Then when she threw it in as she was talking to the cop I was like "Oh, THAT'S how they're gonna shoehorn it in?"

[TattleTeeny]

Well, to say she should be more judicious and less "in love with love" would be a massive understatement, but to say she should remain single at all costs forever is, IMO, nonsensically ridiculous. Yes, she should take a break and figure out her shit and evaluate her decision-making skills and maybe take a crash course in red-flaggery. But, to use a simplified example, if every car I ever bought at the drop of a hat from a sleazy total stranger was a dud, I wouldn't say that's it, I just stay right here now; I'd just learn how to research cars.

Edited January 15, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Buy a vibrator or hire a gigolo and keep it moving.

Yeah, that's what I said earlier.  

[65mickey]

20 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Well, to say she should be more judicious and less "in love with love" would be a massive understatement, but to say she should remain single at all costs forever is, IMO, nonsensically ridiculous. Yes, she should take a break and figure out her shit and evaluate her decision-making skills and maybe take a crash course in red-flaggery. But, to use a simplified example, if every car I ever bought at the drop of a hat from a sleazy total stranger was a dud, I wouldn't say that's it, I just stay right here now; I'd just learn how to research cars.

Five marriages, yes i would say she probably should remain single. Good God what is she looking for? This is just saying that she can't be happy and fulfilled without a man.  Sad.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Did anyone besides me think Chanel was paying to have their handbags constantly on stupid Debbie's arm?

3 hours ago, Sterling said:

She wore a lot of Chanel bags in real life.  It's a total status symbol, not just to have one, but to be able to change them with each outfit the way she did.

No. It's not great publicity for Chanel to be synonymous with a woman too dumb to realize she was being conned her grifter husband. If they were sincerely going to place their product in this show, it would be limited to Ronnie because she was the most admirable of all of the women in the Newell circle. The reality is that Debra had a ton of money, she lived in a very material wealth obsessed community, and she happily and freely spent her money on expensive labeled items. Her designer purses, expensive cars, and any other signifiers of wealth that we saw in the show were likely included because it was an accurate reflection of her life.

1 hour ago, Dance4Life said:

Like I said, anyone can file a lawsuit  for anything.  The lawsuit gets filed and then it is what it is. Most of the time people settle.  Someone like Debra would settle. 

About the divorce it is true.  You are entitled to what the law allows for in your state.  So, the 3rd wife did get her settlement. What she didn’t get was any extras she was asking for that were not protected by the law and promises she could not prove.  Such as letters, informal papers signed by notary, agreeing to such things.

You can file, but you can also be penalized for filing a lawsuit in bad faith. Many lawyers don't like doing this because it really can imperil their licenses. You can't just file a lawsuit to harass someone and think that you won't end up paying damages and the other side's fees. By most accounts, John retained attorneys for claims with merit. Once he received a settlement, he'd begin a pro se action against the attorney. Courts tend to give pro se parties a lot of latitude because they don't have licensed counsel assisting them. Even if his claims weren't meritorious he'd get a wider berth to continue to harass his attorney and make them miserable. While they were dealing this nonsense, he'd use the confusion and exasperation as a cover to disappear.

I don't think you understood my example. Although the divorce process had begun, it is halted and terminated the moment one of the parties (my uncle in my example and John Meehan in this case) dies. Debra didn't get a divorce settlement nor could John's kids claim they were entitled to his "divorce settlement" because there legally was no such thing. Debra and his kids got what they were entitled to under the law as the spouse and the heirs of someone, John, who died without a will. That's it. Furthermore, his kids can't just sue. They can sue if they believe Debra has hidden or destroyed a valid will. They can sue if they believe she's hiding or misrepresenting John's assets from before their marriage. His children are entitled to nothing from his community property arising from his marriage to Debra as he had absolutely no will or pre or post nuptial document indicating that there should be a deviation the statutory allocation. I'm not really going to say any more because it's not germane.

31 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

You have to wonder what caused John to attack Terra. What did he gain? 

I think he thought Terra was most vulnerable. Veronica, Debra's son, and Debra's nephew were openly suspicious and antagonistic towards him. I think he knew that there was a decent chance that the guys might kill him if he attacked them. Veronica, while small, HATED him. She was going to go honey badger on him and there was a solid chance that she'd beat him off of her. If he attacked Debra, Veronica was never ever ever going to let it go and she was going to hunt him to the ends of the earth. I think he went after Terra because he thought she'd be docile and easy to subdue. I believe all of the Newells and the LA times writer think John was hoping to ransom Terra back to Debra. 

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I agree. In my opinion, Debra needs years of therapy before she should even consider dating and if that means she never dates again, so be it. There are worse things than being single (like your husband trying to murder your daughter, for instance). Treat dating and love like an addiction (because I think for her, it is) and go cold turkey while she really digs deep to find out WHY she chases love so much, why she thought it made sense to marry a man she'd known for two months, recognize that her mother fucked her up by siding with her sister's killer and untangle that

I don't think Debra has any concept of how screwed up her head is around love and relationships. The funny thing is that if you asked her if she'd let an employee, who had been with her company for only 2 or 3 months, complete and total access and control to her business accounts and finances, she'd say "Hell no!" But that's just what she did. Her employee spends 40 hours a week in her business, but there's no damn way she'd give them access to her life like she gave John. It makes you want to shake the shit out of her. She brought this fucking stranger into her bed, her home, around her children, her grandchildren, her mom, and her family, and she let him access her finances. She'd been a successful interior designer for more than 20 years. I'm sure there were vendors who she'd spent waaaaaaaay more time with than John, but she didn't invite any of them to spend the holidays with her family. I think if you could actually lay out her screwed up math and her fucked up boundaries, she might slowly start to understand that she can't be trusted to make decisions about relationships.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Five marriages, yes i would say she probably should remain single. Good God what is she looking for? This is just saying that she can't be happy and fulfilled without a man.  Sad.

It is SO not saying that at all, haha! That's quite a reach; I would never think that. Scrapping the whole idea of a partner (for a person who wants a partner, lest I be told that I think women can't be happy without men, hahahhahaa!) isn't the solution; learning to be better about picking one is. And who said anything about being married again?

As to what she is looking for, I would guess a decent guy? This is saying that "five bad marriages =/= no decent men" and/or "people can't learn from (HUGE) mistakes." And maybe she can't; I don't know the woman. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by TattleTeeny

[lezlers]

22 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

I turned my head away when Terra started stabbing John because I'm squeamish and have a thing with eyes. The sound effects themselves were pretty gross.

Ronnie's "Even his organs sucked" made me laugh out loud. I've enjoyed this series, but I will not miss the vocal fries. Hopefully next season won't take place in SoCal.

I'm curious what they're going to do next season.  Pick another podcast?  Another true story?  A totally fictionalized account?  Is it going to be like a True Detective type thing where each season is a totally different story with different characters (and hopefully won't suck as much ass as that show did in it's second season?)

[mythoughtis]

12 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I believe all of the Newells and the LA times writer think John was hoping to ransom Terra back to Debra. 

Now that’s an interesting theory - and actually makes sense. Of course, he’d have gone straight to prison once caught. But, he’d been there before.     

As to the discussion about Debra getting Johns’ worldly goods... what goods? The RV- she didn’t have a clue what to do with that.  The car - probably hers to begin with.   Any money he had was probably illegally obtained - or her  money to begin with. 

I’m going to be politically incorrect and side with those that think she should stay single from now on. She’s been married 5 times, and various sources have said she didn’t choose wisely several times. She’s 60 now. I really don’t  believe she’s magically going to learn from her mistakes at 60.  In fact, if anything, in a few years, she will become even more easily fooled.  Studies have shown that our brains start slowing down in our 60s. It’s whywe are encouraged to keep stimulating our brains after retirement. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by mythoughtis

[lezlers]

20 hours ago, newyawk said:

That expression on John's face when he fumbled the knife and lost it was THE BEST.  But that EYEBALL stab?  My God. I had to Google that to see if that really happened and apparently it did. GO, TERRA GO.  I can't imagine ever nopt having nightmares again after having to do something like that. 

 

Had I not read some articles about it beforehand, and had this just been a TV movie, I would have thought Veronica would have been the one to do the deed. 

 

How could they have let that lady cop question Terra without a lawyer present and before her mother even got there? The hospital staff shouldn't have let a cop anywhere near her at that point.

Terra might present like she's 12 but she's an adult.   Her mother did not have to be present for questioning as if she were a juvenile.  Police question people in the hospital after accidents every day.   I do wonder if she mirandized her first, tho.  That definitely should've happened.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Buy a vibrator or hire a gigolo and keep it moving.

I have a friend who is very similar to Debra (similar ages and she'd ignore the warnings from her friends, family, and kids about these guys too), but luckily she doesn't have Debra's money. When one of her shitbag boyfriends had cheated on her and dumped her, she made some sad pathetic self-pitying statement about never being able to have sex again or never having another orgasm. I texted her the addresses of all of the drug stores, grocery stores, and Targets and Wal-Marts between our office and her home. We worked in different buildings, so she called me after getting my text. She asked, "Why did you send me the addresses of these stores?" I replied, "You poor dear. You said you'd never have another orgasm again. Apparently, the stores in your neighborhood don't sell batteries. I sent you the addresses of places that do." 

[newyawk]

6 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Terra might present like she's 12 but she's an adult.   Her mother did not have to be present for questioning as if she were a juvenile.  Police question people in the hospital after accidents every day.   I do wonder if she mirandized her first, tho.  That definitely should've happened.

Well, I just meant her mother (who was on her way to the hospital) should have been present in that she could have stepped in and said "not without a lawyer" whereas a traumatized, still in shock Terra might not have had the presence of mind to ask for one. 

But someone earlier said that the cops weren't even required to read the Miranda rights since she wasn't being arrested.

Edited January 15, 2019 by newyawk

[lezlers]

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Most people think that every time the police question a person, the police must give the person a Miranda warning. That's not true. The police have to give a Miranda warning if the individual is in police custody. One of the key aspects of determining whether or not Tara had been in custody is whether Tara felt to free to leave after the police questioned her. Considering that she was discharged from the hospital the next day, Tara was probably not in custody. However, the fact that the police barred Debra and Veronica from the room suggests that Tara could make a decent argument in court that she might have thought she was in custody and her statements should be excluded assuming the police failed to give the warning.

Most importantly even if both parties agree that it was a custodial interrogation and she was given a Miranda warning, an attorney only has to be present if the suspect invokes their right to have an attorney present. Many people get the warning and NEVER ask to have an attorney present during questioning.

Additionally, the police had no knowledge about whether what occurred was a crime. Yes, John was near death, but they had no understanding of the circumstances that precipitated it. Was it self-defense? Was Tara mentally ill and delusional? That's why the investigator was asking her about whether she thought the zombie apocalypse was real. Later after questioning witnesses and relevant parties, doing an investigation, and performing an autopsy, we see the DA inform Tara and Debra that no crime was committed.

Finally, the hospital can only bar the police from a patient's room if it could be dangerous to the health and safety of the patient, other patients, the staff, or the police. Even then, those bars tend to only be temporary. For example if the patient was so mentally unstable that the police aren't going to get anything useful from the patient and the questioning might further destabilize the patient, the patient is so immuno-compromised that allowing the police to enter without masks, gloves, and clean suits was going to introduce something fatal, or the patient was sick with  something so infectious and deadly that it would spread and cause a pandemic (these are obviously extreme examples).

So the police didn't know what happened, they weren't sure if Tara's actions were a crime, she wasn't in custody, and she never asked go have her lawyer present.

I don't think Deb said no because she didn't want to get into trouble. I think she said no because her head was too mixed up to thimk about the decision rationally or compassionately. She didn't have the emotional distance.

 

Not to nitpick but Terra was absolutely in custody for purposes of Miranda at that point.  She was not free to walk out of that hospital until she was discharged.  And we don't know if she was detained or not at that point, I'm guessing she was.  Before a line of questioning like that, she absolutely should have been Mirandized.  At the time of questioning someone had been brutally assaulted and was on life support at the hands of someone else.  That, by itself, creates reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred independent of whether an affirmative defense  to that possible crime might exist.  So we have a person who put someone else in the hospital on life support.  That person is now a patient at the hospital and has not been discharged.  There is a police officer at her bedside asking her questions about the incident.  That is a textbook situation that would require her Miranda rights being read if for no other reason that to cover the officer's ass. 

1 hour ago, newyawk said:

Well, I just meant her mother (who was on her way to the hospital) should have been present in that she could have stepped in and said "not without a lawyer" whereas a traumatized, still in shock Terra might not have had the presence of mind to ask for one. 

But someone earlier said that the cops weren't even required to read the Miranda rights since she wasn't being arrested.

Yeah but that's not how the law works.  I disagree with that other poster for reasons stated below.  

Edited January 15, 2019 by lezlers

[lezlers]

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

My husband is a police officer so I know how this works. However this was a fictionalized TV show and they were telling the story of Dirty John. No fiction show will be 100% accurate and they will not show every detail. Most people will expect to be entertained but also for the story to make sense and be relatively accurate.

In real life there was a witness on the scene who immediately verified Terra was fighting for her life. While the police did need to ask questions, they never suspected her of anything than self defense and I don’t think the show portrayed it that way. They also condensed the time frames giving the impression the police questioned her the moment she arrived at the hospital when again this wasn’t the case. I don’t think people here are ignorant about how the law works as much as frustrated as to how this episode was structured. 

As far as Debra not wanting to be responsible to discontinue life support, I can see why she wouldn’t want to be in that position. Her daughter just attacked the man who was trying to kill her and it would look like revenge for Debra to pull the plug and it also implies a family relationship she no longer felt.

This is an important piece of information.  While I firmly believe Terra would have been considered to be in custody for purposes of Miranda (I also know a little bit about this, given it's my profession) if the police honestly did not suspect her of any wrong doing at the time of questioning, they wouldn't need to Mirandize her.   Miranda should be used when someone is subject to a custodial interrogation, which is a line of questioning designed to illicit an incriminating response.   If that officer knew Terra had been attacked by John and was defending herself, then no, Miranda wouldn't be an issue.   But people have been prosecuted for assault and murder when the self defense goes beyond what would be reasonably necessary to defend ones self.  Remember, Terra and Deb still had to wait to see if Terra was going to be prosecuted.  So if that cop hadn't Mirandized her and the DA decided she went too far in defending herself (which never would have happened, but let's just go for the sake of argument)  and wanted to use the statements she made in that hospital room (such as her belief in "kill or be killed"), she'd be shit out of luck.

Edited January 15, 2019 by lezlers