Aethera January 7, 2019 Share January 7, 2019 Your place to discuss The Rock's latest venture! Link to comment
VartanFan January 7, 2019 Share January 7, 2019 Well, this is obviously an NBC show...oy, the back stories. I will tape as of the next showing. It was ok - fine for mindless viewing. :) Link to comment
spaceytraci1208 January 7, 2019 Share January 7, 2019 I enjoyed this. The events are crazy, I was worn out watching them lol. I felt bad for the folks who lost in the first round; there was so much build up and back story, it had to suck going out so soon. I'm looking forward to the new episodes to come 1 Link to comment
CrazyDog January 11, 2019 Share January 11, 2019 I'm still watching tonight's episode but that battle on the high ramp was pretty cool. Major props to Melissa(?) who was so close to being pushed off the edge and ended up winning the comp. That took will. 1 Link to comment
Chaos Theory January 11, 2019 Share January 11, 2019 I want to like this but I keep comparing it to ANW and it fall short. I can’t explain why. 3 Link to comment
jlc January 11, 2019 Share January 11, 2019 I didn't like it - cheap knockoff of ANW! Probably won't watch anymore. 1 Link to comment
Me from ME January 11, 2019 Share January 11, 2019 I love ANW so I gave this a try. Couldn't make it through the first hour. NOPE. I'm out. Link to comment
xcrayon2215x January 12, 2019 Share January 12, 2019 Not as good as ANW, but enjoyable. 1 Link to comment
spaceytraci1208 January 12, 2019 Share January 12, 2019 On 1/10/2019 at 11:16 PM, CrazyDog said: I'm still watching tonight's episode but that battle on the high ramp was pretty cool. Major props to Melissa(?) who was so close to being pushed off the edge and ended up winning the comp. That took will. That was the one that had me a little suspicious. It looked like her opponent (whose name I've forgotten...sorry) just gave up..when the camera went to her it looked like she was just walking to the edge. Link to comment
UncleChuck January 16, 2019 Share January 16, 2019 So what's the deal with The Rock? He insists on repeating for each challenge that "I designed this one to really challenge upper body/lower body/endurance/etc." But I carefully watched the end credits (twice) and nowhere is he listed as Executive Producer, or Producer or game designer--he is only listed as "host". In fact, the credits clearly name the game builders and designers. I don't believe that The Rock had any part in any of it. Link to comment
dvr devotee January 17, 2019 Share January 17, 2019 I just saw a commercial for this last night, haven't watched the show yet, but the commercial put me in mind of American Gladiators. I love American Ninja Warrior, sad to hear it's a poor ripoff. Link to comment
SophiaD January 18, 2019 Share January 18, 2019 I like ANW better, because they are racing against the clock, not each other. Also, what's the point of telling a backstory on a contestant if three seconds later, they'll be out and we'll never see or hear from them again? I liked the original American Gladiators back in the day, but the recent reboot had way too many interviews and too much commentary, and not nearly enough action. This is more like the reboot, honestly. 1 Link to comment
Aliconehead January 18, 2019 Share January 18, 2019 The guy Mt Olympus race entertained me. The big dude just being unable to get past the rollers was both funny and sad at the same time. Now the women’s race was just sad. The poor red girl. 2 Link to comment
spaceytraci1208 January 18, 2019 Share January 18, 2019 I didn't like how the 2nd round of ladies' competition wasn't shown...they did that on a men's round a couple episodes ago as well. These folks are clearly excited to participate on the show, it's messed up to gloss over their competition with an "Oh yeah, this happened..." montage 1 Link to comment
VartanFan January 18, 2019 Share January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, spaceytraci1208 said: I didn't like how the 2nd round of ladies' competition wasn't shown...they did that on a men's round a couple episodes ago as well. These folks are clearly excited to participate on the show, it's messed up to gloss over their competition with an "Oh yeah, this happened..." montage Especially when you consider the time they waste on stupid stuff. But it's the same way with ANW. SPeaking of, I didn't come into this thinking it would be anything like ANW and it isn't, so I don't consider it a ripoff or even compare it. I think it's fun to see what the human body can do (not MY human body, of course). I think it was very stupid of the girl (red) with the knee problems who got hurt to keep running. I get the 'power/mind of a competitor', bla bla bla...but she could have seriously made whatever injury she had worse. Especially on those slides that jam you into the wall below. 5 Link to comment
Ilovepie January 21, 2019 Share January 21, 2019 What a snooze fest! If you condensed the show down to just the actual competition I think you might have 10 minutes of content, maybe 15 if I’m being generous. ANW is only a few months away. I’ll wait for that - sorry The Rock! 2 Link to comment
Lantern7 January 21, 2019 Share January 21, 2019 (edited) On 1/11/2019 at 6:51 PM, Me from ME said: I love ANW so I gave this a try. Couldn't make it through the first hour. NOPE. I'm out. On 1/11/2019 at 11:48 AM, jlc said: I didn't like it - cheap knockoff of ANW! Probably won't watch anymore. As easy as it is to heap love upon ANW (totally justified), I don't think it's a total knockoff. My take is that the backstories are a little more prevalent, and the emphasis is more on strength. Also, Dwayne clearly relishes his role as figurehead/god figure. Oh, wait, no, they don't call him that. No, it's "DJ." Since. Friggin' When?!? Can I call him "Deege" like I refer to TJ Lavin as "Teege" when watching The Challenge? TTG is a good way to kill an hour, and I can see how it would appeal to execs more than Spartan did. Yeah, you probably forgot about that show, didn't you? Sadly, there's more of a chance of an injury, like with that lady falling off the wall. Seeing someone writhe in agony isn't good TV, and spinning her as "courageous" for trooping through to the moment she was defeated wasn't much better. Slightly worse hell than poor Frank. He can knock a concrete ball down to size quickly, but he's probably still on the course, stuck on the rolling logs. Gotham takes priority, but I'll record TTG. Edited January 21, 2019 by Lantern7 5 Link to comment
Me from ME January 21, 2019 Share January 21, 2019 I haven't gone back to watch but from what I saw it was only a competition of strength with a lot of grimacing and grunting while ANW requires a variety of skill sets. (There certainly isn't an grunting on the Silk Slider. ) 1 Link to comment
Taeolas January 21, 2019 Share January 21, 2019 This show only has 6 events TOTAL. Maybe 8 if you consider the final challenge a double challenge. There is no reason to skip any events at all, since each event only takes a few minutes to do. I 'watched' it last week by FFing throuh all the story and thought I had FFed too far when I realized the second woman's challenge wasn't shown... didn't go back but apparently it was skipped completely. Bad form show. (I do wonder if one of the women injured herself so the challenge was cancelled or something?) People watch these shows to see the contestants competing on the challenges. We are NOT watching to hear whatever sobstories the producers cooked up to try and make the contestants 'appealing' or something. Newsflash to producers: Work out how much time you need to show the stuff that matters, and THEN fill the remaining time with the bios. Not the other way around. Really, if a gameshow like Jeopardy was developed today, each contestant would have a 3 minute video biography, there would be 3 categories per round, and we would only see the daily doubles and maybe a handfull of other answers, and the final jeopardy answer. Because for some reason the "human biography angle" seems to be what Producers think people want. 5 Link to comment
Lantern7 January 30, 2019 Share January 30, 2019 (edited) Any thoughts on last week's episode? I feel kinda bad for the guy with the underdeveloped hand. No, it's not out of pity. It's just that he obviously wanted to do well, but the other guy jumped up the ladder absurdly quick and got to the giant wall first. So the guy gets to the beam, the wall is coming right at him, he makes a stand . . . and he gets shoved off. I think you just have to take the wall to a limit to set off the fireworks, but the opponent had way too much momentum to stop. ETA: Also, being competitive/active with just one full hand isn't unheard of on reality shows. Jordan Wiseley has won two versions of The Challenge. Nice guy. Meathead, but nice. Anyone else think of him last week? Edited January 30, 2019 by Lantern7 2 Link to comment
srpturtle80 February 2, 2019 Share February 2, 2019 (edited) I thought that new Vortex challenge this week was INSANE. You could just tell how gassed they were before even attempting to climb that ridiculous chain ladder. Holy crap I was exhausted just watching them. I am a HUGE American Ninja Warrior fan so I thought I would give this show a chance in hopes it would tide me over until their season starts. Overall I find it lacks a lot of the excitement of ANW, also I obviously have no prior connection to certain contestants like I do with ANW, but I still find it enjoyable! Edited February 2, 2019 by srpturtle80 2 Link to comment
saber5055 February 2, 2019 Share February 2, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 11:25 AM, Taeolas said: People watch these shows to see the contestants competing on the challenges. We are NOT watching to hear whatever sobstories the producers cooked up to try and make the contestants 'appealing' or something. LOL because you just described ANW. So far on this show we haven't gotten any WWWAs, so there's that. The runs just aren't shown! I like the backstories so maybe I can be invested in one contestant or another. But I like them on ANW too, so I'm a minority. But hey, I'm the one watching here so I'm good with them! So far I like this as mindless entertainment, but if I miss a run (or two or three), I'm fine with it. Maybe if I get more invested in someone I'll care more. Or when it gets closer to the end. I'll see. On 1/30/2019 at 11:48 AM, Lantern7 said: I feel kinda bad for the guy with the underdeveloped hand. No, it's not out of pity. It's just that he obviously wanted to do well, but the other guy jumped up the ladder absurdly quick and got to the giant wall first. I know, that guy FLEW up the ladder like I've never seen, so had the advantage over the hand guy, who I had figured was easily going to win that challenge. I hope we get to see him again. I do like The Rock's shoulder/arm tats. Nice. (The tats and the shoulders/arms.) 1 Link to comment
dvr devotee February 10, 2019 Share February 10, 2019 I have been watching this show on Hulu, and I actually am enjoying it. I do enjoy seeing the people who have really overcome the odds (like the guy with Leukemia this last show) and rebuilt their bodies so incredibly. I also like seeing the guys who just focus on building their muscles at the gym but otherwise do not work on their athleticism fail miserably. There was a guy an episode or two back who was so huge, and he crushed the first wall and the three uphill walls, but he got totally stuck on the spinning cylinders, and just could NOT get over them. I think he was maybe on the last slide when his opponent was removing the key from the...crypt-thing, about to win. I would really like to see "DJ" take on Mt. Olympus and all of the qualifying tasks. Maybe show the average time for all the winners of that particular task, and Dwayne can do the tasks solo but racing the clock. That can even just be online-only content, but I'd totally watch it. I am also wondering how they will do the finals. Will they basically use the same bracket system as the regular episodes for two semi-final episodes, then the four winners from there will compete in a final? 1 Link to comment
jhlipton February 11, 2019 Share February 11, 2019 On 2/9/2019 at 9:01 PM, dvr devotee said: I do enjoy seeing the people who have really overcome the odds (like the guy with Leukemia this last show) and rebuilt their bodies so incredibly. I also like seeing the guys who just focus on building their muscles at the gym but otherwise do not work on their athleticism fail miserably. That's why I was rooting for Yoga Master over Leukemia Guy. YM was more well-rounded, and I figured he'd do better on the obsticles that take a bit of strategy, like Rolling Ascent and The Cliff (where too much power will make the holes too big). 1 Link to comment
CrazyDog February 15, 2019 Share February 15, 2019 (edited) On 1/30/2019 at 9:48 AM, Lantern7 said: Any thoughts on last week's episode? I feel kinda bad for the guy with the underdeveloped hand. No, it's not out of pity. It's just that he obviously wanted to do well, but the other guy jumped up the ladder absurdly quick and got to the giant wall first. So the guy gets to the beam, the wall is coming right at him, he makes a stand . . . and he gets shoved off. I think you just have to take the wall to a limit to set off the fireworks, but the opponent had way too much momentum to stop. ETA: Also, being competitive/active with just one full hand isn't unheard of on reality shows. Jordan Wiseley has won two versions of The Challenge. Nice guy. Meathead, but nice. Anyone else think of him last week? Late response, but yes. I was hoping to see the guy with the underdeveloped hand do really well, and it was just his bad luck to be paired with that crazy fast guy. I think most competitors would have lost that one. And yes, Jordan totally came to mind. Last night's show was decent, I was rooting for the lady with the lung issue. That was pretty hardcore, and she didn't seem to have any issues with stamina. She killed it. The proposal was so cringe, but I loved the other lady coming over and giving her a big congratulations. And the guy's final challenge was so close! I felt bad for the guy who just barely lost out...but maybe he shouldn't have pointed out that he was Goliath, lol. "David" totally won. But they both did great. I'm enjoying the show. It's no ANW, but it's fun hour. Edited February 15, 2019 by CrazyDog Link to comment
lynxfx February 16, 2019 Share February 16, 2019 The big bulky guy doing the sledge hammer/wrecking ball challenge had horrible technique. Those super fast but short strikes to the wrecking ball weren't doing any damage at all. He had every advantage and could have done some strong, full extension hits to that ball to break it apart with ease. Quite a few competitors have lost just due to their technique in the challenge. It could just be that they are seeing it for the first time (being the inaugural season) but I hope the next contestants are paying attention and learning what works and what doesn't. Link to comment
Lantern7 May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 Okay, so this returned tonight. Any thoughts? Mine are mostly "meh." Link to comment
DEL901 May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Lantern7 said: Okay, so this returned tonight. Any thoughts? Mine are mostly "meh." They are trying to make being a “titan” a thing. It has no history. No stars. American Ninja Warrior has developed legit stars, but it took years. 1 Link to comment
Taeolas May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 I'm not sure I get the new set up of the competition. I'd rather have 2 competitors run all the way to the end and the winner be the winner. (Maybe give an advantage for winning the earlier rounds, either in time or a weight adjustment). I don't understand what the point of someone winning, facing someone fresh to try and beat them on the final mountain, and if they win... they get to run the mountain again against the next winner. That said, the main reason I watch is for the challenges, and so far I'm liking the new ones. The Lunar Clash was an old one, but I fully expected the guy to go flying when he was hit from so far back; but he locked down and pushed back. I suspect the rules say once you're in contact with the pusher, you can't let it go; otherwise a "surprise release" would be a valid tactic. The actual new events I do like. Some are just variants of Tug-o-war, which is to be expected; but others are very skill focused. I worried about the "kick the 4 panels off while swinging in the air" one (missed the name all 3-4 times) but I noticed they are hooked up so if they let go of the ring they just fall a bit more and would hang there. The new Mount Olympus, I think I like better than the other, or at least as equal. The cage climb might be the only part I don't like as much because you're hidden while doing it. A wire wall climb like the earlier woman's challenge might be better for TV. 1 Link to comment
saber5055 May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 I enjoyed this, it's a lot of fun and SO much better than the (IMO) Tag show, which I hated. I even like the backstories okay. I was all for the woman who kept winning, I think she was the former Olympian. All right, so maybe I thought the backstories were okay because I didn't really watch them. Two complaints: What was up with the winning man having, at the end, to run against the show's former football guy who had been through that obstacle multiple times before so, of course, knew the best way to approach everything. Totally rigged IMO. Second complaint: The announcer calling it the "Tie-an" Games. Is this guy friends with Nick "The Masked Sing-ger" Cannon? 1 2 Link to comment
ClareWalks May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 The "handpicked" female Titan (the boxer) SUCKED. She clearly had zero obstacle experience. Some of this stuff is tailor made for an obstacle racing athlete. Jessie Graff will be tough to beat on Mt Olympus. Watching the farmer lady do the peg kicks was frustrating. She needed better grip strength so she could straighten her arms and generate a powerful swing. The doctor got it immediately. Made me wonder if she's done obstacle training. 2 Link to comment
Taeolas May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 I don't think the "Hand picked" Titans had any more chances to run Mt Olympus than the competitors did, out of fairness. They do have an advantage from being rested; but otherwise they see as much of it as the competitors do. Since a winning competitor becomes the Titan to beat, that's only fair (if anything it's less fair if/when they have to beat someone who did run it before). In this case, the handpicked Titans were clearly night and day, and it was probably mainly because of their backgrounds. A footballer is going to be used to charging and plowing through obstacles, which is something you need for Olympus. A boxer, while maybe equally as athletic, has a different skillset, more apt to dodging than plowing. So it's not surprising that she got dusted by the Olympian (who then dusted the second competitor). I fully expect Jessie to be able to dust the course as well, though some of the strength barriers may slow her down. ANW doesn't quite have as many raw strength obstacles like Titan has, but it has enough that she's been training for strength as well as agility, so she should be fine. Link to comment
ClareWalks May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, Taeolas said: I don't think the "Hand picked" Titans had any more chances to run Mt Olympus than the competitors did, out of fairness. They do have an advantage from being rested; but otherwise they see as much of it as the competitors do. Since a winning competitor becomes the Titan to beat, that's only fair (if anything it's less fair if/when they have to beat someone who did run it before). In this case, the handpicked Titans were clearly night and day, and it was probably mainly because of their backgrounds. A footballer is going to be used to charging and plowing through obstacles, which is something you need for Olympus. A boxer, while maybe equally as athletic, has a different skillset, more apt to dodging than plowing. So it's not surprising that she got dusted by the Olympian (who then dusted the second competitor). I fully expect Jessie to be able to dust the course as well, though some of the strength barriers may slow her down. ANW doesn't quite have as many raw strength obstacles like Titan has, but it has enough that she's been training for strength as well as agility, so she should be fine. I follow Jessie on IG and it's CRAZY how strong she is. She might surprise some people out there. But she was recovering from a shoulder issue when they invited her to do this. Link to comment
DEL901 May 26, 2020 Share May 26, 2020 4 hours ago, saber5055 said: Second complaint: The announcer calling it the "Tie-an" Games. Is this guy friends with Nick "The Masked Sing-ger" Cannon? OMG. I thought it was just me being picky. Drove me crazy. 1 3 Link to comment
Ciarrai May 27, 2020 Share May 27, 2020 Dear lord that female boxer was awful. I know The Rock didn't choose her personally but man, that's just embarrassing how bad she was. 1 Link to comment
DEL901 May 27, 2020 Share May 27, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ciarrai said: Dear lord that female boxer was awful. I know The Rock didn't choose her personally but man, that's just embarrassing how bad she was. Wait until you see Jessie Graff. She is a star over on American Ninja Warriors and the real deal. She is also a professional stunt woman and worked on the new Wonder Woman movie. edited because Steffi and Jessie Graff are not interchangeable. Edited May 27, 2020 by DEL901 Link to comment
Taeolas May 27, 2020 Share May 27, 2020 You mean Jessie. 🙂 I can't wait for her turn as a Titan, and hope she does as well as expected. Just from her runs on ANW, she's probably one of the few women around who could legit compete on the men's side of Mount Olympus (ie against the male contestants) and give them a legit run for their money. None of the Mount Olympus challenges are really that different from what she's seen on ANW. (other than the dead weight drag for the ball and chain). That all said, Chantae has had two great showings on Mount Olympus. I hope she does a run on ANW in the future. She may not have quite the right skills for it, but a season or two to practice on them and she'd probably be another of the women stars. Link to comment
ClareWalks May 27, 2020 Share May 27, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DEL901 said: Wait until you see Steffi Graff. She is a star over on American Ninja Warriors and the real deal. She is also a professional stunt woman and worked on the new Wonder Woman movie. I'm sure Steffi Graff would do a wonderful job here too. Edited May 27, 2020 by ClareWalks 2 Link to comment
Ciarrai May 28, 2020 Share May 28, 2020 8 hours ago, DEL901 said: Wait until you see Jessie Graff. She is a star over on American Ninja Warriors and the real deal. She is also a professional stunt woman and worked on the new Wonder Woman movie. edited because Steffi and Jessie Graff are not interchangeable. I'm excited to see Jessie! I've been watching ANW for years. Link to comment
cheewhiz May 28, 2020 Share May 28, 2020 Totally shallow comment: I am having a hard time watching this show because the host dude cannot say Titan! Tie an, drives me crazy and almost turned off the tv. Seriously though, this is the NAME OF THE SHOW and he can't pronounce it. End Rant. 6 Link to comment
greyflannel May 28, 2020 Share May 28, 2020 The exaggerated glottal stop, for lack of a better term, is so grating. If your chosen profession is in front of the camera, especially if the show you're doing commentary for necessitates frequent use of the words titan and mountain, lose the affectation. Please. 2 Link to comment
derriere May 29, 2020 Share May 29, 2020 On 5/27/2020 at 3:54 AM, Ciarrai said: Dear lord that female boxer was awful. I know The Rock didn't choose her personally but man, that's just embarrassing how bad she was. I feel like they wanted one of the Titans to lose in the first round and the Olympian, with her perfect skillset, was always meant to just totally destroy Clarissa Shields. That lady is just fantastic and it's tough to imagine anyone but an elite level athlete beating her on an obstacle course. Link to comment
Rickster June 2, 2020 Share June 2, 2020 On 5/29/2020 at 12:42 PM, derriere said: I feel like they wanted one of the Titans to lose in the first round and the Olympian, with her perfect skillset, was always meant to just totally destroy Clarissa Shields. That lady is just fantastic and it's tough to imagine anyone but an elite level athlete beating her on an obstacle course. Or if she messes up..... 1 Link to comment
Taeolas June 2, 2020 Share June 2, 2020 Yeah that was a rough break, missing the hook from the weight carry. It looked like one of the guys missed it too, but I suspect the hook is a bit below the lip of the ramp. She put on a great run to try and catch up, but those few seconds were just too much to recover from. As for the men's side, I was sure they were going to beat the footballer, but he has too much raw strength to speed up on the drag at the end. He also seems to have better technique, letting his back help with the pull/carry some of the weight. I wonder how next week will work? The women's side have 2 competitors so they'll obviously face off and it will probably be a Chantae vs this week's winner on Mount Olympus. But the Men have 3 challengers who have to be whittled back to the champion. Ideally you would have some sort of 3-way challenge they could do, but none of their challenges are really set up like that. Pairing them off isn't that fair either because at some point you'll have a rested person against a tired one. I guess we'll find out next week. And on a side note, I had to LOL a bit, when one of the women managed to throw a weight off and it bounced/rolled right at The Rock, making him dodge. 🙂 I think they may want a bit more padding in between there. Link to comment
Rickster June 9, 2020 Share June 9, 2020 I began to think during last night's men's final run, where I thought Joe Thomas took a bit of a relaxed run through the course, that the point of the show is to make the contestants into Titans, not to have the show's celebrity Titans go through to the finals. The celebrities are the hook to draw viewers into the show. It will be interesting to see what happens with Victor Cruz and Jessie Graff. Link to comment
saber5055 June 9, 2020 Share June 9, 2020 Color me shallow, but I was rooting for the blond guy in the blue outfit to win. 'Nuff said. 2 2 Link to comment
Taeolas June 9, 2020 Share June 9, 2020 I was hoping Chantae would make it, but she clearly didn't have the endurance or the strength for Resistance. Still, she did great on Mount Olympus and I hope NBC gets her on the ANW course sometime; I suspect she'll do well. I like how they set up the regional final too. The 3 way challenge felt fair, and that resistance challenge was good; though you have to hope the challengers are somewhat balanced or one will just get dragged by the other. I think the barrels for the men could've been maybe another 10-25lbs heavier too; they maneuvered them out way too easily. (The women's barrels seemed about right). 2 Link to comment
realdancemom June 9, 2020 Share June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Taeolas said: I was hoping Chantae would make it, but she clearly didn't have the endurance or the strength for Resistance. Still, she did great on Mount Olympus and I hope NBC gets her on the ANW course sometime; I suspect she'll do well. I like how they set up the regional final too. The 3 way challenge felt fair, and that resistance challenge was good; though you have to hope the challengers are somewhat balanced or one will just get dragged by the other. I think the barrels for the men could've been maybe another 10-25lbs heavier too; they maneuvered them out way too easily. (The women's barrels seemed about right). I was hoping that Chantae would be able to run Mount Olympus again. I think she's a smaller athlete so she does better when she's not being pulled back by another athlete. But I think she would have been a tougher competitor on Mount Olympus. Can't wait to see Jessie next week. 2 Link to comment
ShortyMac June 9, 2020 Share June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, saber5055 said: Color me shallow, but I was rooting for the blond guy in the blue outfit to win. 'Nuff said. Same. That being said, my two least favorite contestants won the Central Region: Matt and Dani. lol 1 Link to comment
ClareWalks June 13, 2020 Share June 13, 2020 Resistance is a challenge that HEAVILY favors the shorter competitor. They have a lower center of gravity and better balance in a crouch. Chantae is probably 5'10" and was doomed from the start. 1 Link to comment
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