Finding Your Roots With Henry Louis Gates Jr. - General Discussion

[Stardancer Supreme]

I just watched that episode and I wanted to know more about her maternal grandfather, since they couldn't (or didn't want to) show any more information on who her biological maternal grandmother was.  The Mayflower connection must have floored Dr. Davis, considering so much of her ancestry was european.

[One Imaginary Girl]

Jeh Johnson's DNA results look like they are from Ancestry (as have most this season from what I could discern), but the way Angela Davis's are divided up, it seems like they are from another company, maybe 23andme.  I wonder why two companies were used.

Anyhow, I think I remember from other episodes of this show and WDYTYA that Sally Field and Ashley Judd are also descended from William Brewster.  

Edit: I know this is shallow, but Angela's mother looked so pretty in that photo.

Edited February 22, 2023 by One Imaginary Girl

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Was it just me, or did it seem like Dr Gates was trying pretty hard to get Angela and Jeh to admit that their white forebears (the guys who chose to stay with their black families) had done the best they could, considering they couldn't legally marry their ladies? 

I may just be projecting, but the close-ups on Jeh Johnson's face at the point when he learned of his slave-owing forebearer having 10 kids with the woman he owned, I thought Jeh, as someone knowledgeable about history and sociology and politics seemed like he could not help but consider that all those children were extra hands to work the farm, which was true of all-white families' kids too at that time, but also knowing they were legal property––—had to grate. 
There's a possibility that the white father looked forward to the day he could set them all free, but that wasn't mentioned. Did they say whether he died before Emancipation?

Edited February 22, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Arcadiasw]

Isn't Neicy Nash a distant cousin to Angela Davis? I thought she had a DNA match. If so, it would be nice to see Angela Davis reaction? 

[Suzn]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I may just be projecting, but the close-ups on Jeh Johnson's face at the point when he learned of his slave-owing forebearer having 10 kids with the woman he owned, I thought Jeh, as someone knowledgeable about history and sociology and politics seemed like he could not help but consider that all those children were extra hands to work the farm, which was true of all-white families' kids too at that time, but also knowing they were legal property––—had to grate. 
There's a possibility that the white father looked forward to the day he could set them all free, but that wasn't mentioned. Did they say whether he died before Emancipation?

He was living with the black woman, who had been property, as of the 1870 census, not with his white wife and family.

3 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Isn't Neicy Nash a distant cousin to Angela Davis? I thought she had a DNA match. If so, it would be nice to see Angela Davis reaction? 

Yes she was.

[buckboard]

8 hours ago, sempervivum said:

Anyway, another Mayflower descendant?!   And more 'how does that make you feel' prodding! It's getting old.

True, but you have to admit that Angela is one of the more unlikely Mayflower descendants to appear on this show.  And she appeared rather flummoxed finding out that she was a Mayflower descendant, so "how does that make you feel" in this case didn't seem out of place.

[shapeshifter]

"How does that make you feel" is part of the program. 
It's like Mr. Rogers' sweater.

Angela Davis was kind of in college professor mode with us viewers, explaining, for instance, that this really was the first moment she was getting this information and telling us "how it" made her "feel".

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:50 AM, PRgal said:

I think it’s one of those “you’ve seen one episode, you’ve seen ‘em all” sort of thing.  I mean, I’m interested in my history/genealogy (especially on my mom’s side, since one of my great-grandfathers (my maternal grandmother’s dad to be exact) was an orphan who became a successful businessman.  Still, though, I pretty much know what’s expected in this series.  I stopped watching seasons ago.

I've been doing the same and only tuning in for celebrities I'm really interested in.  Carol Burnett was one.  Richard Kind was another recently. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:39 AM, 12catcrazy said:

This was an interesting episode.  Danny Trejo has had an interesting life.  The only other famous people I could think of who spent any real time in jail who turned their lives around were the Country singers Merle Haggard and David Allan Coe.   And yes, I wish that we were given more info about why Danny Trejo didn't have much contact with his mother (who looked very beautiful from her photo).  I wonder if his parents were even married?  

I have been listening to Cindy Lauper since the 80s when her hit album came out and will say that I had no idea that she was half-Italian.   I also had no idea that she was raised in Queens (always assumed The Bronx, with that accent - which I feel is largely put-on).   Her parents divorced when she was very young, and apparently her mother remarried and divorced again, so Cindy probably didn't have much in the way of good male role-models while growing up (especially from her comments).    And on a shallow note, for a woman who is pushing 70, she has got gorgeous skin and looks great in general. 

 

 

I knew Cyndi was half Italian because we published her recipe for Italian cheesecake in Redbook when I worked there in the early 80s!  Or maybe it was Bernadette Peters!  Another Italian girl from Queens.   I can't be sure now LOL.

Edited February 23, 2023 by EtheltoTillie
spelling and maybe wrong celebrity

[EtheltoTillie]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:41 AM, iMonrey said:

No comments on David Duchovny or Richard Kind? Maybe their stories were a little too similar or a little too familiar?

I've always thought there was something vaguely creepy about David Duchovny. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something just a little off about him.

Duchovny had a very public sex addiction scandal years ago. 

[12catcrazy]

33 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Duchovny had a very public sex addiction scandal years ago. 

Yeah, he was married to Tea Leoni for many years; it was a shame as they seemed to have been a nice couple.   And if there are any Duchovny fans out there, check out a movie he made in the early 90s called "The Rapture".   It it a very good but little seen movie also starring Mimi Rogers. 

Re the episode, I had no idea so many eastern European Jews wound up in England, although my father's mother and her siblings were all raised in England and their parents were originally from Vilna, Lithuania.  These were very well educated intellectual people who had money, and I have no idea why they moved to England.  They didn't live in London but somewhere in Lincolnshire.   When my grandmother married my grandfather (whose people also came from Lithuania, but my grandfather was raised in New York City), her entire family (parents and siblings) came with her to New York.   My father used to say that his father had made his first million when he married my grandmother as that was what her dowry was.       My father was basically ethnically Jewish but culturally not.  His mother later became a Christian Scientist of all things.    And about Jews who moved to a place like Palestine instead of the US or England, there was actually an early Zionist movement that started in the late 1800s and the goal was to set up a Jewish Homeland in what was then part of the Ottoman Empire.   My father's paternal grandfather was a Zionist and took a boat over to Jerusalem at the age of 97  (died in 1928) and died and  is buried there.    He must be rolling in his grave with so Goyim descendants such as myself and some 3rd cousins who were rather shocked to find out they had some Jewish ancestry (they had been raised to be very anti-Semitic).      

Edited February 23, 2023 by 12catcrazy
typo

[EtheltoTillie]

I know a few Ashkenazim who went to the UK diaspora instead of NYC.  Also know some who went to Argentina and Brazil.  I know of a marriage between one of the Brazilians and a Londoner.  They live in NYC now.  It's always funny to hear them pronounce Yiddish words with their particular accents.   The aunt of the Londoner also came here.  She pronounced "hock me a chinick" with a very Cockney accent, i.e., choinick.  The UK has a large Ashkenazi population.  There's a great documentary about the Jewish community of Leeds you can watch on YouTube. 

The parents of another friend of mind escaped Vienna in 1938, just in time.  They lived in England for a while and worked as servants in a mansion, like Downton Abbey.  The memoir of this is incredible.  Then they came to NYC also. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[realityplease]

When I watch this show, I always regret not asking more questions of my elders while they were still around. As a result, I know quite a bit about some of my family branches & next to nothing about others.  Gleaning cold facts on sites like Ancestry leaves gaps & room for misinterpretation - or for filtering past events through modern sensibilities - without a full sense of the surrounding history, personalities, events & unknowns. 

The program is based on celebrities to attract viewer interest, but frankly, I find the personal tidbits told in this forum just as fascinating! Thank you all for sharing bits of your history here.

[Suzn]

3 minutes ago, realityplease said:

When I watch this show, I always regret not asking more questions of my elders while they were still around. As a result, I know quite a bit about some of my family branches & next to nothing about others.  Gleaning cold facts on sites like Ancestry leaves gaps & room for misinterpretation - or for filtering past events through modern sensibilities - without a full sense of the surrounding history, personalities, events & unknowns. 

The program is based on celebrities to attract viewer interest, but frankly, I find the personal tidbits told in this forum just as fascinating! Thank you all for sharing bits of your history here.

Me too!  I find family stories endlessly compelling.  I don't have to be familiar with the celebrities or like the ones I know (it helps to like them), because the story is the thing.

My mother wrote up what she knew of family history and I was grateful to have that.  It wasn't until many years later when I started doing internet genealogical research did I realize the questions I should have asked.  I've learned many things that prompt more questions.  For example, my mother would have been in her teens when her grandfather died and he lived in a nearby farm and yet she had no stories of him.  That is probably a story in itself - family dispute?   Also, she may have had some information about my highest brick wall, but I didn't know to ask the right questions. 

[12catcrazy]

What did everybody think of this week's show featuring Angela Davis and Jeh Johnson?  

People of a certain age will remember when Angela Davis was right up there with Jane Fonda as one of the most vilified women in America.   I was watching the show and thinking that THIS woman was the object of so much hate and fear back in the day?   And amazed at the revelation that one of her ancestors actually came over on the Mayflower.  Again, this show really hits home about how incredibly twisted the attitudes about race are in America.   And all of the skeletons in the closets about mixed race relationships.  When I  saw the photo of Angela's mother, I thought that she was so beautiful and  probably bi-racial.     Makes one also wonder how Ms. Davis' white grandfather's white descendants will feel about finding out that Angela Davis is one of their own.  

And just a thing that I was surprised they didn't mention on the show: Angela Davis ran for Vice President along with Gus Hall for President, on the Communist Party ticket in 1980 and 1984.  Needless to say, they didn't get much of the vote.  

Edited February 23, 2023 by 12catcrazy

[ProudMary]

2 hours ago, realityplease said:

When I watch this show, I always regret not asking more questions of my elders while they were still around. 

This, big time!

I thought about this a lot during the Covid pandemic. My Dad's older sister was born in 1911, meaning she would have been 7 years old during the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic. We were close and I had many conversations with her over the years about our family's genealogy, but never thought to ask about historical events that would certainly have had effects on their everyday lives. My paternal grandparents--both dead by the time I was five, so I couldn't ask them--were immigrants who had four children, three born in the US. All six family members lived through the 1918 pandemic. (Two of the children,  including my Dad, would have been too young to recall anything.) What was it like for them specifically? I never thought to ask and they're all long gone now, so I'll never know how they managed to live through it when so many others did not.

Younger people should definitely pick the brains of their older relatives!

[kassa]

Angela Davis in the DAR reminded me of Tammy Duckworth's opponent mocking her ancestry which also goes back to the Revolutionary War.   

Sarah Palin is another Brewster descendent (as are millions).

 

[Vanderboom]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:06 PM, sempervivum said:

Was it just me, or did it seem like Dr Gates was trying pretty hard to get Angela and Jeh to admit that their white forebears (the guys who chose to stay with their black families) had done the best they could, considering they couldn't legally marry their ladies? 

I was a little put off by that, too. I get the significance of the slave holding ancestor choosing to live with his former slave and their children in 1870, but Jeh isn't obligated to buy in to the love story that Dr. Gates seemed to be pushing.

[Mediocre Gatsby]

I was surprised that while Dr. Gates was pushing to Jeh Johnson that Aaron must have really wanted to live with Eliza after the Civil War, neither of them speculated about whether Eliza had wanted to live with him. 

[Yeah No]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:06 PM, sempervivum said:

Was it just me, or did it seem like Dr Gates was trying pretty hard to get Angela and Jeh to admit that their white forebears (the guys who chose to stay with their black families) had done the best they could, considering they couldn't legally marry their ladies? 

Anyway, another Mayflower descendant?! And more 'how does that make you feel' prodding! It's getting old.

I really feel sometimes that Henry just loves to shatter people's presumptions about people and/or themselves based on race, and making people of mixed race see good intentions or positive contributions by those on their white sides is one of the ways he does it. 

It is also not lost on me that Angela Davis herself comes from what someone from my relatively humble beginnings would see as more privileged in some ways (only some) than my own given her close family's financial and educational achievements relative to my own.  I think she is invested in accepting only the part of herself that comes from people that endured extreme oppression but is not so open to accepting that she also comes from people that were not so oppressed, and though perhaps many of them were oppressors, there were also some not that far removed from her that were as well intended as could be expected considering their time and place.  I can understand her hesitance but I thought Jeh Johnson was further along in accepting a similar dichotomy in his family and also within himself, and had made more progress in making peace with all of it as parts of his heritage.  I think Angela needs to get to where he is about it, but was obviously not there yet at the point of this episode. 

Henry has obviously been there himself with this and knows exactly how they must feel about it.  I thought Jeh Johnson's words of wisdom at the end showed how mature and realistic his attitude is about his heritage, all of it, not just one side of it.  I agree that this is the story of America and that this kind of realization and acceptance of ourselves as coming from many angles can go a long way to healing racial polarization in this country.  There are many shades of gray in there, not just all good or all bad.  It is far more complicated than that.  I thought that message was one of the most profound and beautiful of this entire series.  Bless Dr. Gates for bringing it to both of these people and to us.

BTW, I am also a Mayflower descendant from William Brewster and my mind was blown too when I first found out because I had never, ever considered it a possibility, so I get that.  I suppose that makes me and Angela very distant cousins too!

Edited February 26, 2023 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

I plan to watch my first full episode of The Simpsons tonight at 8pm EST, because:
"‘The Simpsons’ Brings Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s ‘Finding Your Roots’ to Springfield" 
(variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-simpsons-henry-louis-gates-jr-finding-your-roots-video-1235534291)

Quote

There have been a lot of TV crossover episodes over the years, but this may be the most unique one yet: PBS’ “Finding Your Roots” and host Dr. Henry Louis Gates Jr. will make a major appearance on Fox’s “The Simpsons” this Sunday. Variety has an exclusive first look at Gates’ appearance; scroll down for more.

Gates is a major guest star on “The Simpsons” episode that airs Sunday, Feb. 26 at 8 p.m. ET. The episode, “Carl Carlsen Rides Again,” centers on Homer Simpson’s colleague at the nuclear power plant (and Lenny’s best friend) Carl, who delves into his racial identity for the first time. On the episode, Carl discovers his background by going on “Finding Your Roots.”
. . . https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-simpsons-henry-louis-gates-jr-finding-your-roots-video-1235534291/

 

[RockShrimp]

Was just coming here to post about this because dr gates was on Larry wilmore’s podcast “black on the air” talking about it yesterday - the episode of the podcast is great too. 

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I plan to watch my first full episode of The Simpsons tonight at 8pm EST, because:
"‘The Simpsons’ Brings Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s ‘Finding Your Roots’ to Springfield" 
(variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-simpsons-henry-louis-gates-jr-finding-your-roots-video-1235534291)

 

[shapeshifter]

The next episode isn't until a month from now, March 28, 2023, "Anchormen" featuring Van Jones and Jim Acosta (pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/tv-schedule).

 

________________

Dr. HLG Jr. seemed to really lean in to the humor on last night's The Simpson's/Finding Your Roots crossover episode, 34.14 "Carl Carlson Rides Again."
——or maybe it was just the editing and he was being himself.😉
——or maybe it's just that HLG routine lines now sound like punch lines to me🙃😁

• [ANNOUNCER] Finding Your Roots. With Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
• [HLG] Carl, when you look at this buckle, what do you feel?
• [CARL] I just want to know... what gives?
• [HLG] Today, you'll hear the story that answers that very question: "what gives?"

And:

• [HLG] Let me introduce you to Ellis.
• [CARL] Ellis! I bet I'm related to him. I wasn't supposed to say that yet, was I?
• [HLG] Just act surprised later. Turn the page.

I have to wonder if "what do you feel" instead of "how does that make you feel" had something to do with copyright law. Probably not. More likely trimmed for time.

Wikipedia states that The Simpsons "series is a satirical depiction of American life" (wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simpsons), and certainly genealogy has become part of American life.

This is the only episode of The Simpsons series I have watched. 

The episode is likely available or will become available for streaming on Hulu and Fox, as well as other apps and services.

[pasdetrois]

Gates turns up all over the place. I just finished a book about a young, gay Black man's adventures in 1970s literary NYC, and he mentions "Skip" doing reviews way back then. (The book is Come Back in September.)

[PRgal]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:24 PM, ProudMary said:

This, big time!

I thought about this a lot during the Covid pandemic. My Dad's older sister was born in 1911, meaning she would have been 7 years old during the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic. We were close and I had many conversations with her over the years about our family's genealogy, but never thought to ask about historical events that would certainly have had effects on their everyday lives. My paternal grandparents--both dead by the time I was five, so I couldn't ask them--were immigrants who had four children, three born in the US. All six family members lived through the 1918 pandemic. (Two of the children,  including my Dad, would have been too young to recall anything.) What was it like for them specifically? I never thought to ask and they're all long gone now, so I'll never know how they managed to live through it when so many others did not.

Younger people should definitely pick the brains of their older relatives!

Speaking of the 1918 pandemic, my high school alma mater is over 150 years old so it was around during that pandemic as well.  Back at the beginning of this one, I asked how the school handled things back then but they didn’t reply.  It would have been interesting to know!

now back to our regularly scheduled program…

[lurkerbee]

Excellent interview with Henry Louis Gates on last weekend's episode of Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air. Larry will be featured on one of next season's episodes.

[zoey1996]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:01 PM, realityplease said:

When I watch this show, I always regret not asking more questions of my elders while they were still around.

In the early 70's, when passage of the ERA and the feminist movement was very much in the news, I asked my grandma, born in 1893, about when women got the vote, what she thought, did she vote when she could. She said she didn't remember about that time. My mom would have been around six at the time women got the vote, so my grandma would have been a young mother at the time. She had been a school teacher before she married, but had been a homemaker all of her married life. She generally didn't understand the women's liberation movement, and didn't approve of it. I really wish she could have told me more about her life at that time.

[bybrandy]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:37 PM, zoey1996 said:

In the early 70's, when passage of the ERA and the feminist movement was very much in the news, I asked my grandma, born in 1893, about when women got the vote, what she thought, did she vote when she could. She said she didn't remember about that time. My mom would have been around six at the time women got the vote, so my grandma would have been a young mother at the time. She had been a school teacher before she married, but had been a homemaker all of her married life. She generally didn't understand the women's liberation movement, and didn't approve of it. I really wish she could have told me more about her life at that time.

My great grandmother was the first woman to register to vote in her county.  The family found out about it 25 years later when a the newspaper did a “25 years ago today…” thing. 

[iMonrey]

I really like Van Jones so I was looking forward to this one. I thought the story about his 3x great grandfather was interesting, but there were a lot of missing pieces.

I know literally nothing about Jim Acosta.

[sheetmoss]

When Prof Gates was on Jim Acosta's CNN show over the weekend promoting the episode, they mentioned that Jim was related to actor Jeff Daniels

I was surprised it wasn't mentioned on the eppy as they mentioned Van Jones's  cousin was actor Sterling K Brown

Edited March 29, 2023 by sheetmoss

[shapeshifter]

9.9 "Anchormen" (aired March 28, 2023, online now at pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/anchormen)

Quote

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. introduces trail-blazing journalists Jim Acosta and Van Jones to the ancestors who blazed a trail for them, meeting runaway slaves and immigrant settlers who took enormous chances so that their descendants might thrive.

I was not familiar with either of them.
I wonder if the title of the episode, "Anchormen" was an accidental-on-purpose double or even triple entendre? It seems like it had to be.

Van Jones was an engaging interviewee. I'll keep an eye out for any future appearances of his. 
I wonder about his paternal great-grandmother, Alice Meyers (pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/anchormen, 34:05). They didn't seem to have anything to share about her? :

The story of the repeated escapes of Van Jones' maternal ancestor, Mark, was intense. I guess there's no way to know if the women who went with him were Mark's sisters:
pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/anchormen, 20:57:

pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/anchormen, 52:08:

 

 

Jim Acosta seemed so buttoned-up until he cried at the end.
That story of his relative immediately knowing his father after 50+ years was pretty great, but I'd have liked to have heard her reasons why she recognized him, although such anecdotal utterances aren't generally entirely accurate. Still, it would be nice to hear what she said, if anything. Was it family resemblance? Was Jim Acosta a hometown hero and so his father was remembered? Did the relative have an eidetic memory and/or was the keeper of family lore? Probably a bit of all of these.

pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/episodes/anchormen, 52:03:

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Suzn]

I didn't know either of these men, but it didn't matter.  They both had interesting, dramatic family stories.  If a fictional movie was made of Van Jones' ancestor, it would seem too over the top to be believable.

[carrps]

49 minutes ago, Suzn said:

If a fictional movie was made of Van Jones' ancestor, it would seem too over the top to be believable.

I've thought that about several people who've been on this show. I loved that he and Sterling K. Brown could trace their parallel lines from that four times (?) great grandparent.

 

[Yeah No]

I love Van Jones so I was looking forward to this episode.  His background didn't disappoint either.  It's as fascinating as he is.  When he kept saying "WHAT?" it reminded me of a comedian my husband keeps imitating that uses that line. He's got me using the line and I don't even remember the guy's name now, LOL.  So it struck me as funny when Van used it.

I knew Jim Acosta before this, but never knew anything about him personally until now.   Now I know why he's always so "buttoned up" as @shapeshifter put it.  His mom raised him to be "tough".  Not surprisingly, he's obviously a softie inside judging from his tears at the end, which got me all kinds of choked up.  In the previews when he was shown saying that something was the last thing he thought he would be told, my husband said wouldn't it be something if it was that he was related to a certain former president....🤯  I somehow knew it was either that he was a Mayflower descendant or his ancestors owned slaves.

[One Imaginary Girl]

Jim Acosta's diverse background sure created a great combination.

*swims back out of the shallow end of the pool*

I've been thinking lately about the opportunity to be on Finding Your Roots and regretting not submitting an entry, but I'm not photogenic, so that held me back.  I wonder if they will compare the viewer's DNA results with everyone else's as they do with celebrities, or what if they found out that the viewer's tree overlaps with a celebrity's as they did with Van Jones and Sterling K. Brown? 

 

[Chyromaniac]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:47 AM, shapeshifter said:

Jim Acosta seemed so buttoned-up until he cried at the end.

I used to work in TV news- Jim reminded me of most of the male anchors at that station.  They were all very buttoned up and professional, especially on camera.  Of course they were usually wearing jogging shorts behind the desk, but hey…. That’s kind of the vibe I got with Jim.  There’s almost a reflexive seriousness with how he presents himself - the glasses move he did a couple of times felt especially ingrained.  This is not to say he’s not genuine or sincere in his work - he’s just got the moves down to a T.  That being said, the tears at the end felt even more real, because I could tell that wasn’t part of the newsman playbook.

Van’s ancestor Mark had one of the craziest stories I’ve ever seen on this show.  I love how they can take all these different documents use them to create this incredible story of a man’s life.  And yeah, it would make a hell of a movie.

[pasdetrois]

I also used to work in TV news. It made me aware of how much of reality TV (and news) is performative and not-real, because cameras make people weird.

Acosta will always be remembered as the journalist who just would not let up on a certain former president. His White House credentials were removed as punishment, until attorneys intervened.

Van jones has a certain charismatic spark.

Good episode.

Edited April 2, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Blergh]

Overall, I liked the one with Billy Crudup and Tamera Mowery (April 4,2023). However, I was not happy with Dr. Gates reaction to  a newspaper article he'd found about one of Mr. Crudup's ancestors' former slaves who, by the point of the 1930's article was  in her 80's and blind. Dr. Gates seemed to refuse to believe (and tried to compel Mr. Crudup and the viewers to parrot his own belief) that this woman could have had any positive feelings for any family members of her onetime slave holder and that the whole article was written to pretend that slavery hadn't been 'so bad'. However, part of the article that got shown said   that the onetime slaveholder's great-granddaughter was currently taking care of this now elderly and blind woman! If Dr. Gates had considered that maybe (just maybe) this great-granddaughter HAD felt bad about how her ancestors had enslaved this now-elderly woman as a child and was caring for her in at in part because she might have wanted to attempt to make it up to the woman, he didn't voice it for the series. I'll grant the article's headline tag for  the old woman an 'old mammy' was crude and insulting in itself (even back then) and would have deserved to have been called out. However, unless Dr. Gates had had irrefutable evidence (e.g. a last will, an audio recording,etc.) that the elderly woman hadn't been honest in the article re her POV towards her onetime slaveholder's family, I don't think he should have assumed the worst much less tried to force his own undocumented narrative on Mr. Crudup or the viewers.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Blergh

[blueray]

When they were talking about Tamara's ancestor on the May flower, I couldn't help but get deju vu wasn't someone else related to that guy too? I guess not, as that would have been mentioned.

[Yeah No]

50 minutes ago, blueray said:

When they were talking about Tamara's ancestor on the May flower, I couldn't help but get deju vu wasn't someone else related to that guy too? I guess not, as that would have been mentioned.

I'm sure you're right, I forget who, but I think I've heard of more than one person on this and other genealogy shows that descend from William Bradford.  At this point millions of people probably descend from him, including myself and two of my good friends.  You probably already know this, but until relatively recently Mayflower descendancy was thought to apply to only an "elect few".  It was a mark of status and society, especially in New England because mostly higher class people knew their genealogy and knew they descended from the Mayflower.  Poorer people didn't have that information.  When I was a kid in the '60s people used to snob you based on being a Mayflower descendant.  Little did they know how many regular, ordinary people descended from that little group, including mixed race people.  I didn't find out I was a Mayflower descendant until 2007, when I joined Ancestry.com and was able to research my family.  

It was fun to watch Tamara's mind get blown finding out that information.  It reminded me of me when I found out.  I never ever thought that would be the case, but truth is stranger than fiction!  I also descend from John Billington, another Mayflower passenger.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

Overall, I liked the one with Billy Crudup and Tamera Mowery (April 4,2023). However, I was not happy with Dr. Gates reaction to  a newspaper article he'd found about one of Mr. Crudup's ancestors former slaves who, by the point of the 1930's article was  in her 80's and blind. Dr. Gates seemed to refuse to believe (and tried to compel Mr. Crudup and the viewers to parrot said belief) that this woman could have had any positive feelings for any family members of her onetime slave holder and that the whole article was written to pretend that slavery hadn't been 'so bad'. However, part of the article that got shown said   that the onetime slaveholder's great-granddaughter by was currently taking care of this now elderly and blind woman! If Dr. Gates had considered that maybe (just maybe) this great-granddaughter HAD felt bad about how her ancestors had enslaved this now-elderly woman as a child and was caring for her in at in part because wanted to attempt to make it up to the woman, he didn't voice it for the series. I'll grant the article's headline tag for  the old woman an 'old mammy' was crude and insulting in itself (even back then) and would have deserved to have been called out. However, unless Dr. Gates had had irrefutable evidence (e.g. a last will, an audio recording,etc.) that the elderly woman hadn't been honest in the article re her POV towards her onetime slaveholder's family, I don't think he should have assumed the worst much less tried to force his own undocumented narrative on Mr. Crudup or the viewers.

The more I learn about history, especially the history of slavery in the U.S., the  more I realize just how complicated things were.  Henry himself has brought to our attention many situations where former slave owners showed great generosity and care for their former slaves.  So I did kind of wonder why he didn't also give the great granddaughter her due for taking care of the elderly former slave of her great grandfather.  While the motives of the article writer might have been to whitewash the true horror of slavery, I'm not so sure the older woman would misrepresent her feelings that much.  We really don't know how she felt.  I'm sure there were those rare situations where there was a true affection both ways.  Henry himself has brought to our attention several stories that seem to lead in that direction.  We just don't know.  So I see where you're coming from here.  I'm sure that the majority of slaves and former slaves knew they had to misrepresent themselves to protect themselves, but I'm with you on not assuming that was the case in every case across the board, precisely because as I said above, "truth is often stranger than fiction".  Whether this woman was deceiving herself about what was in her best interest is another issue, but we still really don't know what her true feelings were.

[Vanderboom]

4 hours ago, Blergh said:

However, I was not happy with Dr. Gates reaction to  a newspaper article he'd found about one of Mr. Crudup's ancestors former slaves who, by the point of the 1930's article was  in her 80's and blind. Dr. Gates seemed to refuse to believe (and tried to compel Mr. Crudup and the viewers to parrot said belief) that this woman could have had any positive feelings for any family members of her onetime slave holder and that the whole article was written to pretend that slavery hadn't been 'so bad'.

I wonder if Dr. Gates came across more information that supported his point, but I get what you mean.  There are definitely times when Gates seems determined to push a narrative onto his guests.  A few weeks ago, he really wanted Jeh Johnson to believe that the relationship between his enslaved ancestor and the man who owned her was a love match. 

[meep.meep]

Angela Davis is a descendant of William Brewster - she was on the show recently.

[Mermaid Under]

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Overall, I liked the one with Billy Crudup and Tamera Mowery (April 4,2023).

Just the opposite for me.  I really couldn't watch much of this.  I still tune in when there is a new episode, but it is really from force of habit.  I find myself switching away and not switching back.

Tamera Mowry may have had financial success in the whole TV/social media/product selling area, but I thought her impact on the world of entertainment was a bit overstated. 

Both of their stories have been told before.  Gates was even more Gates in this episode.  He skips over stories that I think sound interesting, and pursues the same narrative over and over.  And we don't know what they could or couldn't find out about various ancestors, versus what stays on the cutting room floor because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Driad]

The Mayflower discussion reminds me of the DAR. I have Rev. War ancestors, and if I lived close enough to DC to use the DAR library I might be tempted to join, but otherwise I'm not. A relative applied in the 1930s, and when they received her application they invited her for an interview; this was unusual and she suspected that they wanted to make sure she was white, since many people with her surname are not. (Hey DAR, does the name Crispus Attucks ring a bell?) She did join, but resigned in 1939 when the DAR wouldn't let Marian Anderson sing in their hall.

[Blergh]

12 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

I wonder if Dr. Gates came across more information that supported his point, but I get what you mean.  There are definitely times when Gates seems determined to push a narrative onto his guests.  A few weeks ago, he really wanted Jeh Johnson to believe that the relationship between his enslaved ancestor and the man who owned her was a love match. 

It would have been one thing if Dr. Gates HAD come across actual data that supported his belief about this former slave of Mr. Crudup's ancestor not possibly having any positive views about any  member of her onetime slaveholder's family-regardless of the man's great-granddaughter currently caring for her as an 80-something blind person.  However, from what Dr. Gates himself presented, it seemed pure conjecture on his part based solely on his own beliefs rather than from actual data. There's no shortage of irrefutable data supporting the fact that slaveholders (and their supporters)  from earliest recorded history to the present  often have been wantonly cruel and inhumane to other human beings. Moreover, Dr. Gates had already confronted Mr. Crudup with  documented evidence of his ancestor who'd been a slaveholder having been inhumane to the slaves he held and Mr. Crudup had agreed with no attempts to dismiss or minimize said evidence.   It almost seemed overkill to me for Dr. Gates to have brought up the 1930's article's existence for the purpose to belittle its existence and even the validity of the elderly former slave's recorded viewpoint for the onetime slaveholder's family because  the article and the former slave herself HAD voiced  positive viewpoints- and didn't even address the fact that the onetime slaveholder's great-granddaughter was currently caring for this elderly, blind former slave. Yes, I'll grant that it's possible that she may have been more diplomatic than tactless in her account. However, unless Dr. Gates HAD had some irrefutable evidence (e.g. a last will and testament, a documentary film, an audio tape,etc.) that proved the former slave to have lied through her teeth when praising the former slaveholder's family members, then I don't think he should have automatically assumed that the article and herself were dishonest much less attempted to compel Mr. Crudup and the viewers to parrot his undocumented belief.  Oh,and  as I said before, I grant that for the article to have termed the woman an 'old mammy' was crude and vulgar (even back then) and its author would have deserved to have been called out for having tagged the subject of the article that tag. . but Dr. Gates didn't call the article out for having done so but for, evidently expressing a point of view he disagreed with.

[iMonrey]

I thought this was Finding Your Roots at its lowest. With Billy Crudup, they once again zoomed straight to the civil war story. Good grief. Worse still, the other story they found on "another branch of his father's side" wasn't even about a direct ancestor! Judging by the very brief glimpse they showed of said tree, the ancestor in question was married to a woman from the Crudup family. Which means at most he was a distant great x uncle or cousin, by marriage. None of their children would have been Crudups and therefore Billy is not descended from that person.

This is why it bugs me so much that the show tends to skim really fast over the trees so it's often impossible to see exactly how the ancestors are connected. They are deliberately obfuscating the connection to the guest celebrity just so they can find the story they want to tell.

As for Tamera Mowry, I'm not overly familiar with her work, but boy I've sure heard her story before. Every modern day child actor, every Disney kid, every Nickelodeon star has the exact same story: they wanted to be an actor, and their parents quit their jobs and moved the family to LA so they could go on auditions! Jeepers. If I had told my parents I wanted to be an actor they would not have quit their jobs and moved us to LA. They would have said "that's nice honey, finish school, graduate, and then do whatever you want." These are either some really over-indulgent parents, or else parents that are looking to turn their kids into a meal ticket. And as cynical as that sounds, there are unfortunately plenty of those types of parents.

I don't care how much you love your kids or believe in their talents, you don't give up your life like that and uproot your entire family just to indulge their childhood dreams. Because for every parent of a Tamera Mowry there are hundreds whose kids never made it and they gave up everything for nothing.

[Lovecat]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I thought this was Finding Your Roots at its lowest. With Billy Crudup, they once again zoomed straight to the civil war story. Good grief. Worse still, the other story they found on "another branch of his father's side" wasn't even about a direct ancestor! Judging by the very brief glimpse they showed of said tree, the ancestor in question was married to a woman from the Crudup family. Which means at most he was a distant great x uncle or cousin, by marriage. None of their children would have been Crudups and therefore Billy is not descended from that person.

I saw that too, re-wound the recording, and paused.  There was actually a male Crudup that married into the line a couple generations down, which is where Billy gets his surname.  The woman the  male Crudup married was the female Crudup’s granddaughter, I believe.  Billy is descended from 2 Crudups in his bloodline.  I was interested in finding out if those 2 Crudups were related by blood in any way; now that would have been an interesting story!

[pasdetrois]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

They are deliberately obfuscating the connection to the guest celebrity just so they can find the story they want to tell

I wonder if ratings are declining and they are trying to save the show. I'm often bored by it and FF through the guests' performative stuff. There's a pattern of similar types of histories and experiences, which of course are shaped by the limits of archival information.

[buttersister]

Quote

I'm sure there were those rare situations where there was a true affection both ways.  

I think today, any slave-to-owner affection would be called Stockholm syndrome.