Breaking Bad - General Discussion

[TVFan17]

I was on Netflix right after midnight, watching the movie (it's now 2:20 a.m.).   Never mind sleep!   I needed to see El Camino right away! 

I am half asleep now so I will comment more later, but I will say that I smiled and laughed several times during the movie -- the moments of levity and banter are fun, and always have been fun in the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul universe.

[Scout Finch]

Priorities, bitch!

[Armchair Critic]

Now I'm hungry for some pineapple.

[thuganomics85]

Eh, so what if I have to work tomorrow/in a couple of hours: no way I wasn't going to watch this as soon as it dropped!

I might process things out a bit more after I sleep, but overall, I enjoyed it and thought it was a satisfying ending for Jesse.  A bittersweet one in a lot of ways, but I'm glad that he made it out of that insanity in one piece.  Of course, if Jimmy/Saul is any indication, freedom won't be sunshine and rainbows, since the threats will always be in the back of their heads, I imagine.

  Reveal spoiler

I figured they were saving him as a surprise, but I still got chills seeing Bryan Cranston again as Walt.  He really fit back in perfectly.  Nice to see that Todd continues to be the world's most disturbing, polite sociopath of all time.  Glad we got one scene with Jane, even though I had to prevent myself from yelling "Jessica!" since that is now the role I associate most for Krysten Ritter.

Say what you will about their intelligence at times, but Skinny Pete and Badger are the most loyal BFFs you can have!

Took me a second to place that Neil/the main antagonist was played by Scott MacArthur, who plays Scotty in The Righteous Gemstones.  He does excel at being slimy!

Great show by Aaron Paul here, to say the least.

You did it again, Vince!  Now, make sure Better Call Saul sticks that landing as well, Mr. Gilligan! 

[Armchair Critic]

  On 10/11/2019 at 9:54 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Took me a second to place that Neil/the main antagonist was played by Scott MacArthur, who plays Scotty in The Righteous Gemstones.  He does excel at being slimy!

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As soon as I realized it was "Scotty" I figured he was not what he seemed

  Reveal spoiler

that he was faking being police

[qtpye]

Movie was brilliant. Gilligan is the master of my universe. 

[gallimaufry]

El Camino.  Generally positive with small reservations.  Spoilers for safety.

  Reveal spoiler

Really liked the movie overall.  Some great tension, some really funny moments (especially the "sports medicine" line -- hilarious!), great scenes especially with Badger and Skinny Pete.  The cop reveal was great and the gunfight was pretty epic although it's sad that this is, I think, the first time Jesse has killed purely to protect himself.  I guess his soul is already dark enough that this won't do much to change it.  It was good to see his parents.  I thought it was a shame with all the back-references that there was no nod to Hank and Gomez.  That said, I loved that Clarence was the third guy Daniel Wormald tried to hire from "Better Call Saul" Season 1; he bolted when Mike took the other guy's guns off him.  So obscure!  I'll be interested to rewatch to see if there are other such callbacks.  Interesting that I don't think they fully confirmed Lydia's death when they easily could have; still a very outside chance she could be around in Gene's time in BCS.  

I guess my only reservation... there's a part of me that wonders whether it really added anything to BB and I'm not sure I can say it did.  There was an elegance and restraint and a perfection to Jesse's ending in BB that this lacks, essentially taking 2 hours to get to an ending with an identical flavour, if different details.  The flashback scenes especially suffer from a couple of the actors looking just way too old to slip back into their roles seamlessly, the different aspect ratio and slightly more muted colour balance makes it feel disconnected from the rest of the universe and by relying so heavily on referencing the show in the final few scenes oddly robbed the movie even more of its own distinctive character.  I do think there's a lot of potential for a series or mini-series about Jesse trying to start afresh and that long-form, slow-burn storytelling is absolutely where Gilligan thrives.  As flashbacks in a 10-episode mini-series -- Northern Exposure meets The Fugitive -- this could have established its own unique character and had something distinctive to say.  Instead, it feels unnecessary and a little inelegant.  But, hey, also tremendous fun and a welcome slice of the ABQverse in the long wait for the next season of BCS.

[TVFan17]

Looking around on social media, I am seeing mostly positive feedback on El Camino (there were already spoiler GIFs on Twitter less than 30 minutes after midnight), but one of my friends said she was underwhelmed.  She said she was not on the edge of her seat.  And she thought that Aaron Paul being older was very obvious in the movie -- in other words, she thought he showed his age. 

I would say that I, personally, enjoyed El Camino -- but I would not say that it is perfect.  If I pick it apart, I can find some flaws, or some things that maybe I would have liked to see a bit more of/less of.   In general, though, I loved seeing all of familiar faces, and I loved the lighter, funnier moments between characters.  There were some suspenseful moments too, and couple of things that took me by surprise.

I also got a kick out of Jesse in a white sweater at the end of the movie, for some reason!  I am not used to that look on him, and it was kind of jarring at first!  lol

I don't know if this movie is necessarily required viewing if someone was content with the way the series ended.   I think the series ended beautifully, in a dramatic and powerful way.   This movie is not going to ruin that ending, but it will probably only enhance the overall Breaking Bad story IF you want to know what happened to Jesse after he drove off into the night in "Felina."  

As great as the series finale was, it left a lot of ambiguity as far as what was going to happen to Jesse.  Some people will be fine with that ambiguity and with the looming questions about Jesse's fate, but others will want to know what happened.   I wanted to know what happened to Jesse, so I HAD to see this movie!  But I definitely don't think anyone needs to see the movie if they want to just remember the series the way it was.  Oh, and...

  Reveal spoiler

...I think that the Hank and Gomez appearance will probably be saved for "Better Call Saul" at some point.

Edited October 12, 2019 by TVFan17

[Chaos Theory]

The movie was average at best and maybe only for Jessie Pinkman fans.   Which I am not.  By the end the character had worn on my last nerve and I was actually hoping he would die so for him to get a happy ending kind of annoys me.

So I am probably not a good judge. 

[Armchair Critic]

The more I think of it I wondered why the welder 

  Reveal spoiler

who was acting like the fake cop, I wonder why he even split the money with Jesse to begin with. I realize they couldn't shoot a gun in the apartment because of the nosy neighbor but I was surprised he let Jesse walk away with it. When they showed his truck I was trying to remember when he was on the show, but his scenes were added to this.

The best part for me was the polite sociopath Todd and his love for 70's easy listening music. He calmly talked about killing his housekeeper who he said was nice so Jesse realized it would be nothing for him to kill Jesse too.

[magdalene]

I had liked Jesse from the beginning and loved him from the "Peekaboo" episode on so for me this movie was a lovely coda. It feels good to know and it was important to me to know that he has a chance for a good life.

[ByTor]

  On 10/11/2019 at 8:17 PM, Chaos Theory said:

The movie was average at best and maybe only for Jessie Pinkman fans.   Which I am not.  By the end the character had worn on my last nerve and I was actually hoping he would die so for him to get a happy ending kind of annoys me.

So I am probably not a good judge. 

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Jesse was my least favorite character on the show (well, tied with Lydia), so I said I wouldn't waste my time watching a movie about him.  Well, turns out that I can't turn something down in the Breaking Bad universe.  I have to say I did enjoy it, but the one scene that almost completely ruined it for me was that Wild-West shootout.  If the welder guys weren't afraid of gunshot noise, they would have killed Jesse immediately when he tried to get even more money out of them.  But then Walt showed up and I was happy again!

My favorite scene was the scene with the vacuum guy, when Jesse told him he was faking that call to the police.  Seeing the police car through the front door got a snort-laugh from me 🙂 

@TVFan17...I read a review in the New York Times that actually addressed Aaron Paul's age.  They, along with your gf, also mentioned he was obviously older, but that was ok since the stress from everything he went through in that final season most likely would prematurely age him.  What I could not get over, however was Todd's weight gain.  Yikes!

[Spartan Girl]

Saw it and loved it! Was it necessary? No. But it was fun and it was a great performance from Aaron Paul.

  Reveal spoiler

Who would have thought those two dopes Badger and Skinny Pete would be such sensitive and great friends. Hope Skinny doesn't get into too much trouble with the cops, they should have kept the questioning scene from the trailer.

Todd, that psycho fuck. After what he did to the cleaning lady his own strangling was poetic justice. And that's probably why -- other than Brock's safety -- Jesse didn't shoot him when he had the chance: a gun was far too quick for Todd.

The vacuum cleaner salesman scene was priceless.

Had a feeling we'd get something with Jesse's parents. His goodbye to them was sad and sweet. Wonder if they'll ever find out Jake was the one who had the joint in their house.

Loved the flashback with Walt in the diner, after their infamous stint in the desert with their trailer breaking. Jesse's "Yeah, bitch" growl filling up at the buffet made me grin.

Wish we got to hear what was in the letter to Brock. Paul said there was supposed be a voiceover of him reading the letter as he drives away, but Vince cut it at the last second. Boo! But he promised we might still see it somehow...

Good job, Vince Gilligan. Now give us an all-Gene episode of Better Call Saul.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[chick binewski]

It was not exactly what I expected and not what I thought I wanted but I loved the movie and, much like the show, was glued to the screen from beginning to end. It was a smaller story than I was looking forward to but not (as the NYT stated) superfluous. I liked the similarities of Jesse's dilemas to the ones Walt experienced through the series and how Jesse chose to handle them in a different way; I also liked the nod to Jesse pulling something of value from his time with Walt. 

Also, Marla Gibbs!

[PeterPirate]

I did like this story.  Jesse could have been transported to a mall in the midwest and resumed his illicit activities.  This movie ties up his story and we know we will not become Walter White 2.0.

I found the title to be somewhat odd.  It's not like the car was all that important to the story.  Maybe "El Camino" was a reference to the road that Jesse took to escape, both literally and figuratively.  

Vacuum cleaner guy was as cool as the other side of the pillow.   On the other hand the scenes with Todd dragged.

And give it up to BC for shaving his head for one short scene!

Edited October 12, 2019 by PeterPirate

[Valny]

  On 10/12/2019 at 1:57 AM, PeterPirate said:

Vacuum cleaner guy was as cool as the other side of the pillow.   On the other hand the scenes with Todd dragged.

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They really did spend a lot of time with Todd, wasn't expecting that, definitely could have been less.
The part when Jesse

  Reveal spoiler

took the gun from Todd's glove compartment, I thought he was testing him and put blanks in there,so I was expecting Jesse to "shoot" him. 

When those two guys came to Todd's place,I pegged them for fakes right away, so I got one thing right. But I did think the money would be in the tarantula housing.

The Skinny Pete and Badger banter was quite funny. What good friends too.
I felt better after Jesse showered. 🙂

  Reveal spoiler

Very cool to see Walt again. I was thinking if they did bring Cranston back, it would be perhaps Jesse imagining or haunting him,something like that.

I thought that was cheese Jesse was piling on his plate at the buffet instead of pineapple. Now I wasn't pineapple chunks.
Overall I enjoyed it and was very glad it was made, but I can't say I LOVED it. 

[Kel Varnsen]

That was impressive. The story was such a simple one but there was so much tension that it made it soon good. 

  On 10/12/2019 at 1:57 AM, PeterPirate said:

I found the title to be somewhat odd.  It's not like the car was all that important to the story.  Maybe "El Camino" was a reference to the road that Jesse took to escape, both literally and figuratively.  

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What was impressive about the title was Vince Gilligan obviously knows how crazy the breaking bad fan base is. So be obviously knows that he could call the movie pretty much anything and a ton of people will watch it. I mean by comparison the Deadwood movie which was also awesome was called "Deadwood: The Movie".

[TVFan17]

I just saw this, and wasn't sure if it had been announced earlier today and I somehow missed it -- https://deadline.com/2019/10/robert-forster-obituary-el-camino-film-1202758555/

R.I.P., Robert Forster.

Bryan Cranston's comment on it --

Edited October 12, 2019 by TVFan17

[suomi]

  On 10/12/2019 at 2:44 AM, Valny said:

The Skinny Pete and Badger banter was quite funny. What good friends too.

I felt better after Jesse showered. 🙂

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LOL when Skinny told Jesse to help himself to the toiletries, including the Tommy Hilfinger. 

I always thought Todd AKA Meth Damon was the stuff of nightmares and that has not changed. 

[TVFan17]

Skinny Pete and Badger are definitely comedy gold together.   Their goofy banter is very much needed in that world of drugs and crime.  I just wanted to hug them and say "Thank you for being you, and for never changing!"  lol  But...

...Todd, on the other hand, is a very odd guy.   We could see that he was his own unique brand of psycho on BB, but that weirdness was on full display in El Camino.  

I mean... the Todd & Lydia snow globe was alternately disturbing and hilarious.  And the singing!  That was very unsettling on its own, and I am not even getting into the dead body on the floor of his apartment.

Edited October 12, 2019 by TVFan17
Removed spoiler tags

[DoctorAtomic]

I was unspoiled for the movie. It was at a laconic pace overall, but I liked it. I think it shouldn't be forgotten that Jessie was one half of the Heisenberg enterprise, and the reason he was taken hostage was because of that. He wasn't trading on that in this sequence of events because he just wanted to escape, but I think for the most part, except for Forester, everyone else was reacting to that. Which is why I think the idiot welder challenged him to a shootout.

Clever to hide money in the fridge.

Nice cameo from Cranston too. Who's to say Jessie doesn't end up in college? He took Mike's advice to go to Alaska, so maybe he takes Walt's too.

Though Walt died, and I think he 'got away with it' technically, but he is dead, and from what we know of Saul, I think Jessie got as happy an ending as one can in all of this. I think that was the right call for this movie.

I did like the snippets from the news to tie into the end of the show. Jessie seemed actually disappointed when he heard Walt died over the radio.

[Quilt Fairy]

I was very underwhelmed. We all hoped that Jesse made it to Alaska, and

  Reveal spoiler

low and behold he does - in the last damn scene of the movie.  Two hours of him running around like a rat in a maze trying to get enough money to get there was simply not interesting.  

[MJ Frog]

  On 10/12/2019 at 2:44 AM, Valny said:

  Reveal spoiler

Very cool to see Walt again. I was thinking if they did bring Cranston back, it would be perhaps Jesse imagining or haunting him,something like that.

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That's exactly what I had been hoping for!

I was overall very satisfied, but that would have brought a really interesting energy to the story, as well as giving Jesse a fascinating arc as he deals with the influence Walter had, and continues to have, on his life. Walter is one of those people who had an enormous gravity, like a rogue planet that comes flying through and throws everything into chaos. Throughout the film Head Walt could have alternated between needling Jesse, trying to control him from beyond the grave, and giving him clever suggestions for getting out of trouble -- both of these things very much summing up Walter's relationship with Jesse.

And then, at the end, we could see Jesse finally walking away from Head Walt, who can no longer follow. I like what we got, but that would have been fun, too.

Edited October 13, 2019 by MJ Frog
Despoilered the spoiler.

[Pike Ludwell]

To me, it was about as good as could be expected, since I never liked the character "Jesse". It was more narrow in scope than I expected, but still it was ok. Seems like Jesse Plemons would have done like actors have done forever: lose weight for a role, but no. And they had him in like 50% of the movie.

I think Jesse should have killed Todd those times he had the chance - out of fear that he himself would be killed eventually otherwise. Then Jesse would have a couple days to find the kid they'd threatened to kill and deal with that.

[ByTor]

  On 10/12/2019 at 4:25 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

We all hoped that Jesse made it to Alaska

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Not all 🙂 

[Umbelina]

I have the show DVD's, and Robert Forster's comments about acting, about this role, about old Hollywood and how he learned are fascinating.  If you get the chance, or if some kind soul has put some of them up on YouTube, be sure to listen.  He comments on the episode when he takes Walt to the cabin.  He was a very interesting man, and he was very happy to get this role and work with Vince and the team.  I'm glad he was so valued by them, and appreciated, and that it seems he ended his career on that kind of high, being honored and loved by his coworkers.

Forster's commentary reminded me of another really great DVD commentary on "Somethings Got to Give" by Jack Nicholson in some ways, especially in the "old school" handling of props during scenes.  If you get the chance, I recommend listening to both.

Another article about his death:

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/robert-forster-oscar-nominee-jackie-brown-dies-78-66226728?cid=social_fb_abcn&fbclid=IwAR0b_oDiCGHnD3TJK8U3WKYO4-fhFxxXHh-F7dfoma_i3JbnVl7YFLo12F4

Edited October 12, 2019 by Umbelina

[nodorothyparker]

Mod note: El Camino is live and readily available. We're not requiring spoiler tags for discussion.

[suomi]

I agree with your thoughts about Robert Forster and especially his commentaries. It's incredibly sad that he passed just as another wave of public appreciation was headed his way.

Beginning with his earliest work, he always was one of my big crushes. He had a very appealing way about him.

[chick binewski]

  On 10/12/2019 at 4:09 AM, TVFan17 said:

Skinny Pete and Badger are definitely comedy gold together.   Their goofy banter is very much needed in that world of drugs and crime.  I just wanted to hug them and say "Thank you for being you, and for never changing!"  lol  

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  On 10/12/2019 at 4:10 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

Though Walt died, and I think he 'got away with it' technically, but he is dead, and from what we know of Saul, I think Jessie got as happy an ending as one can in all of this. I think that was the right call for this movie.

I did like the snippets from the news to tie into the end of the show. Jessie seemed actually disappointed when he heard Walt died over the radio.

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I thought starting the movie with Pete & Badger was a great move, but now I'm a little disappointed we didn't get to see the interrogation scene from the previews and maybe Pete & Badger filling Jesse in on their stint as Walt's faux assassins.

Before Felina aired, Anna Gunn said she thought "everyone got the ending they deserved". I always thought that was interesting (and possibly correct) when applied to Jesse.  I'm glad we got to watch it play out.

I loved watching Robert Forster and was sad to hear of his passing. I'm grateful we got to see him one more time in this role.

[foxfreakinmulder]

  On 10/12/2019 at 1:43 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Saw it and loved it! Was it necessary? No. But it was fun and it was a great performance from Aaron Paul.

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Agree 100%.  Jesse became my favorite character, he did bad things but had a good heart and those bad things weigh heavily on his shoulders.

Loved the banter between Skinny Pete and Badger. Loved the scene with Jesse and Mike at the river. I wasn't spoiled so when I saw Walter White I was giddy and of course the banter between him and Jesse is priceless and yes it made me want Pineapple ;-)

Hated Todd during BB and hated his ugly face even more in El Camino.

Breaking Bad in on my short list as one of the best written shows ever put on tv and Better Call Saul is on that list as well but I really miss BB and so I'm glad they made this movie because I wanted to know what happened to Jesse and I'm glad it started where BB ended and not him in Alaska suffering from PTSD. For me the icing on the cake would've been a short scene of the cops finding Skinny Pete's car next to the Mexican boarder and saying something like "looks like he's in Mexico" since the talk about switching cars was a big scene I would've like to have saw closure to that. 

I loved the shootout scene. I wasn't expecting the gun in the pocket, very WW.

I'm glad they made the movie, I enjoyed it very much!

[ByTor]

  On 10/12/2019 at 8:17 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

Hated Todd during BB and hated his ugly face even more in El Camino.

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I really thought when Todd told Jesse he needed something from him & they ended up in Todd's apartment, I thought for sure Todd was going to rape him.  Glad I was wrong.

[Pj3422]

That was a lovely send-off for Robert Forster. 

Anyone else scream, “Lydia!” when the radio newscaster said that there may have been some commonality with the Nazi massacre and “the poisoning of a Houston woman”?

So what’s next? Jesse becomes a lumberjack and meets some guy named Dexter?😀

[shapeshifter]

Having aged even more than the BB actors in the intervening 6 years, I did not watch this at midnight; I needed to be awake.

I have some variations on the thoughts and observations above:

  On 10/12/2019 at 4:25 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

We all hoped that Jesse made it to Alaska, and

low and behold he does - in the last damn scene of the movie.  Two hours of him running around like a rat in a maze trying to get enough money to get there was simply not interesting.  

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An excellent and very concise description of the movie would be "Two hours of [Jesse] running around like a rat in a maze trying to get enough money to get [to Alaska]." But I disagree that it was not interesting. However, I also loved the "Fly" episode of BrBa, and many didn't.
  
  

  On 10/11/2019 at 7:31 PM, TVFan17 said:

She said she was not on the edge of her seat.  And she thought that Aaron Paul being older was very obvious in the movie -- in other words, she thought he showed his age

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I was "on the edge of my seat" during quite a bit of it, but the age and weight of the actors was distracting to me (except for Walt/BC). In some scenes it looked like Aaron and some others were de-aged via CGI. I wonder why they didn't do more of that--maybe because it would blunt the acting in the close-ups.

******
  
  

  On 10/11/2019 at 8:52 PM, Armchair Critic said:

The more I think of it I wondered why the welder 

who was acting like the fake cop, I wonder why he even split the money with Jesse to begin with

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I assumed the welder felt he owed Jesse the money for taking part in Jesse's torture; that seemed even more apparent to me in the later scene when his partner was questioning giving Jesse money. I think the welder must've had some nightmares about what he did to Jesse. 

  On 10/11/2019 at 10:08 AM, Armchair Critic said:

I figured he was not what he seemed

that he was faking being police

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I knew they were fake cops as soon as the neighbor said that other cops had already been there.
  
  

  On 10/12/2019 at 1:43 AM, Spartan Girl said:

probably why -- other than Brock's safety -- Jesse didn't shoot him when he had the chance: a gun was far too quick for Todd.

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I thought it was obvious that Jesse didn't shoot Todd because Jesse had been tortured into submission. The scars reinforced that for me, but Aaron Paul's acting cemented it for me.
  
  

  On 10/12/2019 at 11:02 PM, ByTor said:

I really thought when Todd told Jesse he needed something from him & they ended up in Todd's apartment, I thought for sure Todd was going to rape him.  Glad I was wrong.

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Ugh. Me too. I wonder if Aaron Paul will verify in an interview that Jesse thought/dreaded that too.
  
  

  On 10/11/2019 at 6:55 PM, gallimaufry said:

Jesse has killed purely to protect himself

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 I thought Jesse also killed because the welder was one of Jesse's tormentors, and killing him was a way of taking back his own agency --not that I recommend that course of action to those who have suffered as Jesse did. 
 

******

  

  On 10/12/2019 at 2:44 AM, Valny said:

The Skinny Pete and Badger banter was quite funny. What good friends too.

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Skinny Pete and Badger are good friends, but I think smoking pot influenced their behavior too --in a positive way --not that it would have that effect on Todd.
    
  

***********

I believe that Robert Forster was satisfied that he was able to complete these last projects, but, of course, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have wanted to live to do more.

Edited October 12, 2019 by shapeshifter

[DangerousMinds]

  On 10/12/2019 at 12:28 PM, Pike Ludwell said:

To me, it was about as good as could be expected, since I never liked the character "Jesse". It was more narrow in scope than I expected, but still it was ok. Seems like Jesse Plemons would have done like actors have done forever: lose weight for a role, but no. And they had him in like 50% of the movie.

I think Jesse should have killed Todd those times he had the chance - out of fear that he himself would be killed eventually otherwise. Then Jesse would have a couple days to find the kid they'd threatened to kill and deal with that.

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Why should he have had to lose weight? It didn’t matter for the character IMO.

  On 10/12/2019 at 1:58 PM, ByTor said:

Not all 🙂 

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Yeah, I’ve always remained conflicted.

[ByTor]

  On 10/12/2019 at 11:38 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Why should he have had to lose weight? It didn’t matter for the character IMO.

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I am someone who always says that roles should be recast when an actor leaves regardless of what they look like (like in soaps, an actor leaves, they get a new one, and there has to be a "they were in an explosion and had plastic surgery to get this new face" explanation), I don't care if actors on a TV show who are supposed to be family don't look anything alike, because they're just actors playing a part, who cares?  Yet when I saw how much weight "Todd" gained, how different he looked from Felina, for some reason it was very jarring to me.

[DoctorAtomic]

The whole driving insults were fantastic. 

You couldn't even drive miss daisy. 

[SoMuchTV]

For most of the movie, I was thinking that the flashbacks were scenes from BB that I just hadn't fully remembered.  I guess it was when I tried to IMDB the welder guy (which BB episode was he in...?) when I figured out, no, these were new.

[Simon Boccanegra]

I found the movie very pleasurable if nonessential. True, it doesn't fill in any detail either in the past or the present scenes that adds much to what we knew. And I personally was more interested in present-day Jesse than I was in flashbacks that allowed another lap for characters who did not make it out of the series. Various scenes were less than a credit to the wonders a wig shop can achieve, and the recreation of Jesse's look in the finale was notably poor. That beard was SNL level.  

But I got two more hours of Aaron Paul in his role of a lifetime, and writing and direction with all the suspense, poignancy, and wit of the Gilligan projects at their best, and that was enough.  

I have mixed feelings on the Jesse Plemons debate that has flared up this weekend. I've seen comments questioning whether even discussing his/Todd's very different appearance is body-shaming. I think it can cross over into that at worst, but it's something hard not to notice, and since the scenes in question have to be placed chronologically within the year of Jesse's captivity, people are going to comment...just as they did when Skyler visibly changed between a finale and a premiere.  

However, I know Plemons went directly into El Camino from some other projects he's done, and he had been asked to gain for at least one prior role. Maybe there just wasn't time for him to do a U-turn. As good as Plemons was in the role (in El Camino and before), I would have been happy to leave Todd and the rest of the Aryan gang where we left them in the finale, but as mentioned above, I was more interested in moving forward than looking back. 

There are unavoidable challenges in doing sequels and prequels, when years of real life have passed for the actors. Better Call Saul too is hitting that point where it takes some suspension of disbelief to buy that characters are being seen at a point before our first meeting them in Breaking Bad.  

  On 10/12/2019 at 11:16 PM, shapeshifter said:

But I disagree that it was not interesting. However, I also loved the "Fly" episode of BrBa, and many didn't.

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"Fly" was my favorite Breaking Bad episode.  

[Spartan Girl]

Todd's passive politeness to Jesse really was the most disturbing thing about him. Patting him on the head for staying hidden in the front seat, offering him soup after wrapping up the body like it was nothing and his "oh she was nice but I had to do it", bribing him with pizza to get him to give back the gun, even consoling him afterwards....ugh. Sociopaths really are superficially charming, but there's nothing underneath. Nothing.

I hope that Jesse got as much pleasure tearing apart Todd's place looking for the money -- and stealing his money -- as he did strangling him.

The Walt flashback made me sad because it was the Walt who actually gave a damn about Jesse and not the one who manipulated him for his own gain. 

[marny]

  On 10/12/2019 at 11:38 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Why should he have had to lose weight? It didn’t matter for the character IMO.

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For the same reason the flashbacks of Walt showed Brian Cranston with a shaved head (bald cap). Continuity. 

[shapeshifter]

  On 10/13/2019 at 2:12 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Todd's passive politeness to Jesse really was the most disturbing thing about him

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Wondering if Todd's uncle seriously physically abused him into submission as a child --and, if so, IMO, killing Todd was putting him out of his miserable existence. Or am I wrong? I don't see Todd being healed of his evil tendencies --especially if he was brain damaged during the abuse? 
Todd's constant references to his uncle seem to support my theory of the uncle's importance.

Or is Todd not supposed to represent a real person, but rather a collective mind set. Maybe Gilligan will weigh in.
  
  

  On 10/13/2019 at 4:29 PM, marny said:

  On 10/12/2019 at 11:38 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Why should he have had to lose weight? It didn’t matter for the character IMO.

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For the same reason the flashbacks of Walt showed Brian Cranston with a shaved head (bald cap). Continuity. 

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The ages and weight discrepancies bothered me as an avid BrBa fan, but, to be fair, I don't think they ever showed slim Todd in this movie, which, if I am correct, means there is no discrepancy within the movie for his character's physicality.

Edited October 13, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Kel Varnsen]

  On 10/13/2019 at 5:16 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wondering if Todd's uncle seriously physically abused him into submission as a child --and, if so, IMO, killing Todd was putting him out of his miserable existence. Or am I wrong? I don't see Todd being healed of his evil tendencies --especially if he was brain damaged during the abuse? 
Todd's constant references to his uncle seem to support my theory of the uncle's importance.

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Not sure about abuse but his life is definitely all about his uncle's crime world. It seemed clear that he pretty much had no life otherwise, to the point where he was trying to make Jesse his buddy.

I also thought it was interesting how few lines Jesse had in the movie.

Also can anyone remember the timeline of the Omaha scenes in Better Call Saul. I mean Saul left Albuquerque long before Walt came back and took out the Nazi's. So it's funny to to think that while all this was going down Walt was selling Cinnebon (and probably saw the story of Jesse's escape on the news).

[Pike Ludwell]

  On 10/13/2019 at 5:16 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wondering if Todd's uncle seriously physically abused him into submission as a child --and, if so, IMO, killing Todd was putting him out of his miserable existence. Or am I wrong? I don't see Todd being healed of his evil tendencies --especially if he was brain damaged during the abuse? 
Todd's constant references to his uncle seem to support my theory of the uncle's importance.

Or is Todd not supposed to represent a real person, but rather a collective mind set. Maybe Gilligan will weigh in.
  
  

The ages and weight discrepancies bothered me as an avid BrBa fan, but, to be fair, I don't think they ever showed slim Todd in this movie, which, if I am correct, means there is no discrepancy within the movie for his character's physicality.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there was an outtake from BB.  The first part of the scene where Todd is talking to Jesse about the clouds and weather. [Later edit: Nope. Rewatched and it wasn't an outtake.] 

BTW, in that scene Todd mentions the weather forecast on KKOB, which is a real station in Albuquerque. I tuned in to that AM station, and it's actually a pretty decent talk/news station. I've added it to my presets.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Pike Ludwell

[Umbelina]

I always thought Todd was simply born a psychopath, nothing traumatic happened in his life to "change" him into one.  He had no angst, seemed completely uninterested in self examination, he was happy with who he was, and if anything, confused when anyone implied that something he did or didn't do or feel was odd.  (killing the kid on the motorcycle for example.)

For a while I was thinking of him as a sociopath, but really, that dude is straight up psycho.

  Quote

"The psychopath is callous, yet charming. He or she will con and manipulate others with charisma and intimidation and can effectively mimic feelings to present as "normal" to society. The psychopath is organized in their criminal thinking and behavior, and can maintain good emotional and physical control, displaying little to no emotional or autonomic arousal, even under situations that most would find threatening or horrifying. The psychopath is keenly aware that what he or she is doing is wrong, but does not care.

"Conversely, the sociopath is less organized in his or her demeanor; he or she might be nervous, easily agitated, and quick to display anger. A sociopath is more likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate ways without thinking through the consequences. Compared to the psychopath, the sociopath will not be able to move through society committing callous crimes as easily, as they can form attachments and often have 'normal temperaments.' . . ."  https://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/psychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference

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Interesting, new study says that psychopath's are born, not bred, which makes sense when thinking about Todd.  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/5979198/Psychopaths-are-born-not-bred-according-to-a-new-study.html#targetText=Psychopaths are born not bred%2C according to a new study.&targetText=Criminal psychopaths%2C as portrayed in,signs of remorse or guilt.

  On 10/13/2019 at 6:05 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Not sure about abuse but his life is definitely all about his uncle's crime world. It seemed clear that he pretty much had no life otherwise, to the point where he was trying to make Jesse his buddy.

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[Irlandesa]

  On 10/13/2019 at 4:16 AM, Simon Boccanegra said:

I found the movie very pleasurable if nonessential. True, it doesn't fill in any detail either in the past or the present scenes that adds much to what we knew.

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This is how I felt about it too.  It didn't add anything to the end of the series.  The assumption I got when he was driving away from the Nazi compound in the series is that he'd escape.  This movie basically filled in the details but didn't really change anything I thought I knew about his captivity or the ending.

But Gilligan is such a good writer that seeing the details of that escape was entertaining even if it was predictable. 

  On 10/11/2019 at 6:55 PM, gallimaufry said:

I do think there's a lot of potential for a series or mini-series about Jesse trying to start afresh and that long-form, slow-burn storytelling is absolutely where Gilligan thrives.  As flashbacks in a 10-episode mini-series -- Northern Exposure meets The Fugitive -- this could have established its own unique character and had something distinctive to say. 

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I do think there's potential for a different kind of sequel here that takes place in Alaska.  I'm not even sure they would need to show Jesse trying to establish a life but rather, we could follow an established Driscoll in a whole new milieu.  Except, unlike Better Call Saul where Saul's past is the future that Jimmy is about to catch up with, a sequel would be about Jesse who has a past that could catch up with him.

The bolded part is another reason some of the movie lacked a little bite as we had the welding guys introduced and disposed of in less than two hours.  Other than Todd, I wasn't invested in the Nazis and even less in the welding duo. 

The most Breaking Bad the movie felt was in the flashback to Walt and Jesse when Jesse was still more like a teenager than an adult and Walt hadn't let his innter demons fully take over. 

As for a larger Todd, it was a little jarring mainly because Todd looked younger and more naive when he was thinner.  He looks a bit more jaded as a larger guy.  But the actor (Jesse Plemons) gained the weight for a movie role before he did Fargo and the creator of Fargo felt that the weight gain would work well for that character as well. He has pretty much had it since.  So Vince likely knew what he was getting when he decided to include Todd.  I'm guessing he figured most people would just go with it the way they go with older actors playing younger versions of themselves in Better Call Saul.  I am pretty sure Matt Jones (Badger) weighs less than he did in Breaking Bad.

[Living Dead]

Can you really start over in Alaska? Seems far fetched. Anyone can just take your photo. He was on the news!

[TVFan17]

  On 10/14/2019 at 1:33 AM, Irlandesa said:

...The most Breaking Bad the movie felt was in the flashback to Walt and Jesse when Jesse was still more like a teenager than an adult and Walt hadn't let his innter demons fully take over. 

As for a larger Todd, it was a little jarring mainly because Todd looked younger and more naive when he was thinner.  He looks a bit more jaded as a larger guy.  But the actor (Jesse Plemons) gained the weight for a movie role before he did Fargo and the creator of Fargo felt that the weight gain would work well for that character as well. He has pretty much had it since.  So Vince likely knew what he was getting when he decided to include Todd.  I'm guessing he figured most people would just go with it the way they go with older actors playing younger versions of themselves in Better Call Saul.  I am pretty sure Matt Jones (Badger) weighs less than he did in Breaking Bad.

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Re: the bold text above --

Yes!   That was exactly what I thought.  The pineapple overload scene was pure Jesse and Walt of the earlier days of Breaking Bad.  Aaron Paul completely channeled that younger Jesse so well as he was excitedly piling things onto his plate, and then scolding Walt about not remembering that he graduated.  I loved that scene.   It really felt as though it was a lost "bonus" scene that had been filmed years ago and cut from an episode, then inserted into this movie.

Edited October 14, 2019 by TVFan17

[shapeshifter]

  On 10/14/2019 at 1:51 AM, Living Dead said:

Can you really start over in Alaska? Seems far fetched. Anyone can just take your photo. He was on the news!

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Jesse has a pretty nondescript face. That was not one of the aspects of the movie that hurt my suspension of disbelief. 

[Irlandesa]

  On 10/14/2019 at 1:51 AM, Living Dead said:

Can you really start over in Alaska? Seems far fetched. Anyone can just take your photo. He was on the news!

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This is probably a big-gish story in New Mexico but I doubt national news much less a local news channel in Alaska will be covering it.

Saul is managing as Gene in Oklahoma and that's closer.  I believe the vaccuum repair man sent him to Haines which only has about 1000 people.  He'd stand out as a newbie but I doubt he'd be recognized unless he ends up on the most wanted list but even there I think he'd get bumped.

  On 10/14/2019 at 2:00 AM, TVFan17 said:

then scolding Walt about not remembering that he graduated. 

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"You were on stage when they handed me the diploma" might have been my favorite line from the movie. And Walt just dismissing it highlighted the low key self-absorption that was there even early in the series.

[nodorothyparker]

That was a whole lot more of Todd the world's politest sociopath than I ever would have said I wanted, but in the end it mostly worked.  As my husband said, watching the scenes with the body in the carpet knowing that Jesse will be strangling Todd not long after this makes you appreciate that ending all the more.  If I was feeling almost mindfucked by Todd so cheerfully talking about murdering the cleaning lady, imagine the effect it had on someone who'd been chained up and tortured for however long.

Add me in the chorus of liking this well enough as an epilogue where we mostly already assumed this outcome.  It doesn't really add a whole lot new to the ending we already had but it doesn't take anything away from it either, which definitely counts for something with me when other high profile shows botch their endings so badly.  (Yes, Game of Thrones, I'm still looking at you.)  I did really like the snippets we got of seeing the story play out on the TV news, confirming once and for all that both Walt and Lydia did die no matter what convoluted workarounds some have offered up online for either to still be alive somehow.  Jesse's quiet reaction to the radio announcement that Walt had died was nicely done, bookended by that late glorious flashback to the early days of their partnership to show that there had been a time when they genuinely cared about each other.

Aaron Paul was doing good work in conveying just how traumatized and at loose ends Jesse was, and while the welding company guys felt a little tacked on in a movie that didn't have a ton of big set pieces or fireworks, that scene of them impassively watching him run back and forth on the waist chain like a dog on a clothesline was horrific.  What a terrific sendoff for Robert Forster.  The small bits of black humor that made the show so fun to watch really shone through in his scenes. 

Skinny Pete really is the best friend you want to have in your corner.  Of course he was an Axe Body Spray aficionado.