LuAnn de Lesseps: No Longer a Countess, Still Never a Princess

zoeysmom · August 23, 2016

35 minutes ago, tenativelyyours said:

I think Luann has hugely out of date adherence to male and female roles in a relationship. Maybe not jealousy so much as possessiveness. I think she was fine with Alex dicking around as long as he was her husband. An actual divorce was what threw her for the loop. And why over and over again she tried to clutch pearls on matters that were public to the cast and to the smaller society in which she ran than the overall viewing public in fly over states. Her gasping in outrage when Ramona said Alex was considerably older. An old man. In FRONT OF HIS OWN DAUGHTER! The horror. the crassness. The fact that as dim as she sometimes looks the daughter seemed able to do simple math. But it was a shame that the table dancing already about to be disCountess had to make a huge issue at a venue that was meant to be a charity. Because the dig, rude and yet blandly stupid as it was, attacked the image of her being The Countess. Which to me was something she took as a trophy of mating and marriage.

Pirate? She had to loop her vagina into a lasso and prove she was the one who had it more than the others in her post-divorce single days. Something I think always kept the ground a bit shaky under her feet.

And I think that is what Tom and his Tomfoolery does. Not just embarrass her but also diminish her worth as a woman in her own eyes. Being married was proof she was not just the woman she was a la Countess, but also that she still had the edge over others. Including her own cast-mates. If this was all going on in the tabloids just due to Tom's Foolery I would be (hypocritically I know) cackling like Frankelstein's Monster no doubt. But as long as that overworked face and PVC bodied Lindsey Lohan Special Edition Troll Doll is getting her kicks from the woes of Luann, I just can't enjoy it all that much. Damn you Frankelstein's Monster. You could have dropped this to the press anonymously and had it play out while the season climaxed in a wonderfully rich ironic juxtaposition. But no. the Monster just had to shit it all out on air so we get to see once again, The Monster is nothing but a Sphincter that spews out shit.

Seeing Luann's anger when she called Tom, I don't think she was okay with the Count's absences and dalliances. I believe she is now coming around to the obvious, that is why she left Switzerland. If the Count still wanted her and would change his tune, she was probably hoping his international dalliances would not get back to US. To me it is like a professional athlete giving his wife the heave ho-they may have stuck around during the infidelity years but they really didn't enjoy it and were holding out for a changed person. It also left Luann as a single mom with custody about 48 weeks out of the year.

I have to say what really bothered me about the old man comments from Ramona, was the fact the Count is three years older than Mario. Ramona was cruel and again it was Ramona not only putting down the Count, but saying how much better and more youthful Mario was than the Count. That was not even remotely acceptable in front of the children. So my guess is the daughter, who may have never met Mario, was probably wondering how young Mario was. Remember that was back in the day when Ramona could not remember her own age.

I do think Luann likes being coupled and her wedding excitement seems more like a first time under 30 year old getting married. It would not surprise if filming did not start next season until January-NY has had several long breaks in between seasons. They went almost two years between Seasons 5 and 6, allegedly due to Luann being a hold out, and in the end she made more money not holding an apple. The worst that could happen is they return next June instead of April. That would remove the wedding from the mix. Also, from what I understand, they try and stay away from holidays as it dates the show. So seeing Santa in June feels like old news-just as the Sonja/Ramona dating Tom "news" was pretty old.

tenativelyyours · August 23, 2016

I think Luann married and Luann unmarried are two rather different sides of the same coin. So I don't think Luann vis-a-vis Tom plays the same or even close to her vis-a-vis Alex. Being married already and the mother of the man's children could, and for me, does play a part in how she will look at the infidelity of Alex to how she looks at Tom who she is, again to me, essentially selling as her huge redemption arc. Huge. She took this tale to the cameras when she did not have to. Ironically and oddly just like Frankelstein's Monster who again could have played a much lower key role as shocked and saddened Greek Chorus come the reunion. And it really was poorly played by the Monster. But I always thought she was one of those who is incredibly cunning in pushing to get ahead, but in the end not really that smart. I remember how all over the interwebs people laughed and cheered her 'wit' the first couple of seasons. Almost all of which I always found bland, derivative and dated even when she said her snarky talking heads. I think Luann would have been reduced to nothing had she simply let the press do the "revealing" with no one the wiser to her role and then sit like a cat with cream as Luann wiggled and squirmed at the reunion and had to swallow whatever the rest of the women served her.

But single Luann shows a different side. She ups and leaves the guy she is with in Italy when the 'Count' crooks his finger her way. She really seems to have no loyalty to Jacques whatsoever. So I think Tom does not equal Alex nor will he until they marry and even then the lack of children puts him a bit differently. But at the same time a marriage that is pretty much already carefully tidied for the cameras is not the same as a story that Luann seems to have built and sold no matter what the foundational truths in her relationship with Tom. Differences also is that Tom she puts the camera on. With her ex it seems likely she had little to no power over his appearances; nor did she ever really drag him out for the cameras post divorce. I think Tom can be both her storyline and her private relationship. Alex seemed to be a bit of a deliberate enigma in compare.

I still find Luann ridiculous over the whole older Alex thing. Maybe instead of the age gap between Mario and Alex, it should have been the age difference between Mario's trollope and Alex's 'princess'? Either way I loved seeing Luann get all hissy goose over something she should have and could have hand waved away. And I still think Victoria's discomfort came more from the fact that once again, her mother publicly and on camera acted like an overwheening goose deciding not to participate in the whole foie gras process long after the feeding tube was shoved down her throat.

But again. I just have seen too much of Luann to think that she is so incredibly homogeneous when it comes to men. Married, engaged, pretend for cameras boyfriends, a way to show she still has 'it' plus her dated perceptions (as I see them) to a woman's status via men. She should have apologized to Jacques and moved on to straddling and riding more barflies and embraced that and found out how strong and capable she was as an individual for a lot longer than she has. And then Tom could not "embarrass" her by picking a particular bar to still try to cling to his (lifelong) bachelor tendencies.

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

55 minutes ago, tenativelyyours said:

I think Luann married and Luann unmarried are two rather different sides of the same coin. So I don't think Luann vis-a-vis Tom plays the same or even close to her vis-a-vis Alex. Being married already and the mother of the man's children could, and for me, does play a part in how she will look at the infidelity of Alex to how she looks at Tom who she is, again to me, essentially selling as her huge redemption arc. Huge. She took this tale to the cameras when she did not have to. Ironically and oddly just like Frankelstein's Monster who again could have played a much lower key role as shocked and saddened Greek Chorus come the reunion. And it really was poorly played by the Monster. But I always thought she was one of those who is incredibly cunning in pushing to get ahead, but in the end not really that smart. I remember how all over the interwebs people laughed and cheered her 'wit' the first couple of seasons. Almost all of which I always found bland, derivative and dated even when she said her snarky talking heads. I think Luann would have been reduced to nothing had she simply let the press do the "revealing" with no one the wiser to her role and then sit like a cat with cream as Luann wiggled and squirmed at the reunion and had to swallow whatever the rest of the women served her.

But single Luann shows a different side. She ups and leaves the guy she is with in Italy when the 'Count' crooks his finger her way. She really seems to have no loyalty to Jacques whatsoever. So I think Tom does not equal Alex nor will he until they marry and even then the lack of children puts him a bit differently. But at the same time a marriage that is pretty much already carefully tidied for the cameras is not the same as a story that Luann seems to have built and sold no matter what the foundational truths in her relationship with Tom. Differences also is that Tom she puts the camera on. With her ex it seems likely she had little to no power over his appearances; nor did she ever really drag him out for the cameras post divorce. I think Tom can be both her storyline and her private relationship. Alex seemed to be a bit of a deliberate enigma in compare.

I still find Luann ridiculous over the whole older Alex thing. Maybe instead of the age gap between Mario and Alex, it should have been the age difference between Mario's trollope and Alex's 'princess'? Either way I loved seeing Luann get all hissy goose over something she should have and could have hand waved away. And I still think Victoria's discomfort came more from the fact that once again, her mother publicly and on camera acted like an overwheening goose deciding not to participate in the whole foie gras process long after the feeding tube was shoved down her throat.

But again. I just have seen too much of Luann to think that she is so incredibly homogeneous when it comes to men. Married, engaged, pretend for cameras boyfriends, a way to show she still has 'it' plus her dated perceptions (as I see them) to a woman's status via men. She should have apologized to Jacques and moved on to straddling and riding more barflies and embraced that and found out how strong and capable she was as an individual for a lot longer than she has. And then Tom could not "embarrass" her by picking a particular bar to still try to cling to his (lifelong) bachelor tendencies.

I think Jacques was an asshole. And a broke one at that. No one can sell me on how mean Luann was to him. I think even Ramona, Sonja and Mario would agree with my assessment. Again, Luann over the moon with the wrong guy.

I know you don't agree but Ramona was really condescending in that scene-check out Bethenny. She has no business comparing husbands or marriages. Her own brother said she was a cheater. What was more disconcerting to me is when Ramona retold the story, she said Luann said Mario was ugly, Bethenny corrected her. Luann said, "he is a handsome man," blah, blah, blah. http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-2/videos/ramona-vs-the-countess It dawned on me, once again Ramona just showed up for a scene.

I always felt kind of sad for Ramona that she thought having a handsome husband was the most important thing. I thought Mario was great entertainment though because he was such a peacock and every time he appeared he was so arrogant. The first season it was pretty clear to me, Mario who took care of Avery in the morning and got her breakfast and took her to school, so her highness Ramona could sleep in put a stop to the ridiculous "triple threat" Avery proclaimed (through her mother) to be (actress, singer, dancer) with kindness.

izabella · August 24, 2016

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

I think Jacques was an asshole. And a broke one at that. No one can sell me on how mean Luann was to him. I think even Ramona, Sonja and Mario would agree with my assessment. Again, Luann over the moon with the wrong guy.

I have vague recollections of him, so am curious why you say that. I remember him as mostly pleasant, though bland because I don't remember much of him.

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

12 minutes ago, izabella said:

I have vague recollections of him, so am curious why you say that. I remember him as mostly pleasant, though bland because I don't remember much of him.

There was a scene when Jacques was doing blindfolded wine tasting and Mario got really mad because he thought Jacques was trying to trick Ramona into picking the wine that wasn't hers. There was a big scene at the Christmas party where Sonja started bawling and carry on how Jacques wasn't the right guy and would hurt Luann, and finally right before they broke up there was a scene where Jacques was really rude to Luann during a photo shoot-that was where I saw he wasn't such a nice guy. It is one of those things where separately you write it off, add it together and maybe it was time for Luann to move on-although I think it played out that he dumped her.

Knuckles · August 24, 2016

I've mentioned this before, but I will repeat it. Luann was renting a coop in my neighborhood on the westside for a couple of years, and I saw her often in the mornings with her dog in Riverside Park, while walking my own amid the many dogs and owners that are out every day. She is very good looking, and friendly, but a little shy and diffident. But she also made an effort to remember folks and say hello. I was very favorably impressed.

Jacques is a fixture in the nabe...he owns a place in a brownstone the next street over. His looks are very French...not standard American handsome, but very compelling. He and his dog (now elderly) are out every day when he's in the city. He is much more reserved, and very much keeps to himself. So it was a real shock to see him on reality TV. But, there is an older woman, once homeless, now sober, who has been helped by Jacques to get dog walking and housekeeping jobs, and she speaks very highly of him. I give him high marks for that, and she herself has become a very pleasant and responsible woman.

I suspect that given that he is a very private person--in all the years that I have passed him in the morning with my dog, he has never done more than nod, that reality TV was a terrible strain. And the company of Ramona et. al., is not an especially sophisticated or compelling group. Amusing perhaps, but would you want to spend time with them?

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

23 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

I've mentioned this before, but I will repeat it. Luann was renting a coop in my neighborhood on the westside for a couple of years, and I saw her often in the mornings with her dog in Riverside Park, while walking my own amid the many dogs and owners that are out every day. She is very good looking, and friendly, but a little shy and diffident. But she also made an effort to remember folks and say hello. I was very favorably impressed.

Jacques is a fixture in the nabe...he owns a place in a brownstone the next street over. His looks are very French...not standard American handsome, but very compelling. He and his dog (now elderly) are out every day when he's in the city. He is much more reserved, and very much keeps to himself. So it was a real shock to see him on reality TV. But, there is an older woman, once homeless, now sober, who has been helped by Jacques to get dog walking and housekeeping jobs, and she speaks very highly of him. I give him high marks for that, and she herself has become a very pleasant and responsible woman.

I suspect that given that he is a very private person--in all the years that I have passed him in the morning with my dog, he has never done more than nod, that reality TV was a terrible strain. And the company of Ramona et. al., is not an especially sophisticated or compelling group. Amusing perhaps, but would you want to spend time with them?

Nice to hear about Jacques.

No, I would not want to spend a moment with Ramona. Ramona so far has tried to blackmail Luann over her son's birthday party, called her a slut , made up story after story and even called her a bad mother. The fact Ramona feels Luann is condescending to her is laughable.

breezy424 · August 24, 2016

Well remember Ro said at that lunch with Lu that she, Mario and Avery were the trifecta. It was perfect and then she brought up Lu's marriage, her daughter and everything else she could to hurt Lu. I didn't even like Lu at the time but I do remember thinking that this is just 'mean'. Then a few seasons later karma bit Ro in the butt. I admit I got some satisfaction out of it.

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

1 minute ago, breezy424 said:

Well remember Ro said at that lunch with Lu that she, Mario and Avery were the trifecta. It was perfect and then she brought up Lu's marriage, her daughter and everything else she could to hurt Lu. I didn't even like Lu at the time but I do remember thinking that this is just 'mean'. Then a few seasons later karma bit Ro in the butt. I admit I got some satisfaction out of it.

Luann has never said anything derogatory about Avery. Luann does not like Mario and never has. The irony is Ramona who called Luann a weekend mom, because her daughter was in boarding school, was the one who always worked, didn't get up in time to see her daughter off to school so she could sleep in, claimed to be home by seven, a fact Avery disputed, claiming her folks went out all the time at night. I believe the unwritten code was the women weren't to go after each others' husbands and kids. Something Ramona has done repeatedly. Luann did not work outside the home for the first 12 years of her daughter's life. I have nothing against working moms but Ramona as one, should not be trashing stay at home moms.

If it were a beauty pageant between Avery and Victoria, Victoria would win the talent and the overall. Avery is a nice enough girl but she isn't terribly attractive. She is okay but not a stunner. Avery has spent a significant amount of time on the show being mortified by her mother's behavior and arguing with her. Even this year when Ramona was dumping on Luann, Avery asked why she would say something.

My favorite mother daughter moment with Ramona was Avery's first fashion show. Kelly was really excited for Avery and the as soon as the show was over, Ramona, begging for invite, decided to go to a Perez Hilton party and packed Avery off in a cab and sent her home. Kelly was taken back.

breezy424 · August 24, 2016

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Luann has never said anything derogatory about Avery. Luann does not like Mario and never has. The irony is Ramona who called Luann a weekend mom, because her daughter was in boarding school, was the one who always worked, didn't get up in time to see her daughter off to school so she could sleep in, claimed to be home by seven, a fact Avery disputed, claiming her folks went out all the time at night. I believe the unwritten code was the women weren't to go after each others' husbands and kids. Something Ramona has done repeatedly. Luann did not work outside the home for the first 12 years of her daughter's life. I have nothing against working moms but Ramona as one, should not be trashing stay at home moms.

If it were a beauty pageant between Avery and Victoria, Victoria would win the talent and the overall. Avery is a nice enough girl but she isn't terribly attractive. She is okay but not a stunner. Avery has spent a significant amount of time on the show being mortified by her mother's behavior and arguing with her. Even this year when Ramona was dumping on Luann, Avery asked why she would say something.

My favorite mother daughter moment with Ramona was Avery's first fashion show. Kelly was really excited for Avery and the as soon as the show was over, Ramona, begging for invite, decided to go to a Perez Hilton party and packed Avery off in a cab and sent her home. Kelly was taken back.

I'm not going to go after Avery and her physical looks and do any comparisons but I do like her because she seems to be normal. And yep, I remember when Avery said her parents went out at night all the time.

I appreciate all stay at home parents. I hate that this decision is so often dismissed.

nexxie · August 24, 2016

Avery seems much more mature than her mother.

motorcitymom65 · August 24, 2016

8 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

There was a scene when Jacques was doing blindfolded wine tasting and Mario got really mad because he thought Jacques was trying to trick Ramona into picking the wine that wasn't hers. There was a big scene at the Christmas party where Sonja started bawling and carry on how Jacques wasn't the right guy and would hurt Luann, and finally right before they broke up there was a scene where Jacques was really rude to Luann during a photo shoot-that was where I saw he wasn't such a nice guy. It is one of those things where separately you write it off, add it together and maybe it was time for Luann to move on-although I think it played out that he dumped her.

That wine deal was nasty stuff. I always felt certain the intent was to embarrass Ramona. I cannot see any way (if one thinks it was nasty) to only blame Jacques. Lu was in on it as well, and my guess is she was the ringleader. I had problems with this at the time, since my intense Lu love tended to get in my eyes. I didn't like what I was seeing, and even though others had seen an ugly side to Lu prior to that, I found myself looking at her differently for the very first time, trying hard to find a way to justify what she had done. At the time I blew it off because Ramona had always been so horrible to Lu, so I kind of thought she deserved it (she probably did deserve it). After the whole deal with Carole last year, however, I look at a lot of Lu's past behavior differently. I've seen her for what she is, and now that whole wine deal seems much uglier, since the intent seemed to be to diminish Ramona's standing in a business that she was undertaking.

WireWrap · August 24, 2016

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

That wine deal was nasty stuff. I always felt certain the intent was to embarrass Ramona. I cannot see any way (if one thinks it was nasty) to only blame Jacques. Lu was in on it as well, and my guess is she was the ringleader. I had problems with this at the time, since my intense Lu love tended to get in my eyes. I didn't like what I was seeing, and even though others had seen an ugly side to Lu prior to that, I found myself looking at her differently for the very first time, trying hard to find a way to justify what she had done. At the time I blew it off because Ramona had always been so horrible to Lu, so I kind of thought she deserved it (she probably did deserve it). After the whole deal with Carole last year, however, I look at a lot of Lu's past behavior differently. I've seen her for what she is, and now that whole wine deal seems much uglier, since the intent seemed to be to diminish Ramona's standing in a business that she was undertaking.

I agree, Luann was a part of the wine set up. I disagree that it was any worse than what Ramona has done to Luann over the first few years. In fact, it was a rather mild pay back for nasty things Ramona has said about Luann's marriage/divorce and her kids/parenting. Ramona almost always went low, really low when it came to Luann, I always got the feeling that Ramona resented Luann's, the "Countess" social status within the larger NYC social circle and tried everything she could to bring Luann down to her level. (if that makes any sense) LOL

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

I'm not going to go after Avery and her physical looks and do any comparisons but I do like her because she seems to be normal. And yep, I remember when Avery said her parents went out at night all the time.

I appreciate all stay at home parents. I hate that this decision is so often dismissed.

I only brought up the physical side of things because of Ramona's steadfast putting down of all others. My guess is Avery, who said she wanted to spend time in the family business has been well versed in business. I think she has managed to adjust to her parent's divorce.

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

That wine deal was nasty stuff. I always felt certain the intent was to embarrass Ramona. I cannot see any way (if one thinks it was nasty) to only blame Jacques. Lu was in on it as well, and my guess is she was the ringleader. I had problems with this at the time, since my intense Lu love tended to get in my eyes. I didn't like what I was seeing, and even though others had seen an ugly side to Lu prior to that, I found myself looking at her differently for the very first time, trying hard to find a way to justify what she had done. At the time I blew it off because Ramona had always been so horrible to Lu, so I kind of thought she deserved it (she probably did deserve it). After the whole deal with Carole last year, however, I look at a lot of Lu's past behavior differently. I've seen her for what she is, and now that whole wine deal seems much uglier, since the intent seemed to be to diminish Ramona's standing in a business that she was undertaking.

Luann didn't do it-Jacques did. Just as Ramona didn't call Luann Countless-Mario did. I just don't think these women need to take the hits for the drama their men create. My guess is Jacques had been at the receiving end of Ramona and her comments for years-including Ramona's blackmail nonsense, the attacks on Luann's kids. Actually, the whole thing kind of back fired as Ramona was able to pick out the correct wine. Mario addressed it with Jacques and I thought that appropriate. It was over. It is kind of one of those things that the women should not be expected to defend. Compare it to Ramona telling an appalled Kristen that their husbands (now both proven cheaters) were so much better than Heather's husband.

It is like John and Dorinda, Dorinda rarely gets blames for John's behavior-but she defends him as her partner. I have never thought this line of "trying to sell me" is appropriate on Bethenny's part. Bethenny shouldn't be shopping, she should be enjoying and supporting and not picking on the men.

zoeysmom · August 24, 2016

Through the eyes of Page Six-Luann' wedding details. Her wedding website is no longer available. http://pagesix.com/2016/08/18/housewives-drama-wont-stop-luann-from-going-down-the-aisle/

zoeysmom · August 25, 2016

Off the current topic of Tom and Luann a sweet photo from Noel:

ElDosEquis · August 25, 2016

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 4:55 PM, tenativelyyours said:

She had to loop her vagina into a lasso and prove she was the one who had it more than the others in her post-divorce single days. Something I think always kept the ground a bit shaky under her feet.

I have heard of the Chinese basket trick, could that be the American Cowgirl trick?

I once dated a woman who's bagina was, let's say, musically inclined.

Momma's got a squeeze box, daddy don't get sleep at night?

ElDosEquis · August 25, 2016

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 2:25 PM, zoeysmom said:

I do think Luann sees mates with rose coloured glasses. We live in a world, and especially on reality TV, where forgiveness and second chances. Since Om has never been married, I guess it remains to be seen.

What I noticed about Luann, is she does have a jealousy streak. She was in disbelief that as soon as she left town, Tom went to the Regency. That is certainly behavior that can be modified, if the person is willing.

Can I really judge Luann's choices when I have been just as stupid?

I fell deeply and madly for a woman and she remarried the man who beat the shit out of her, stalked her and made her put up a child for adoption.

It took me a while to realize I was in lust, not love and I was merely a way to get back at him. Now I realize that I was young, dumb and full of (shit).

No one could have told me otherwise,

-----

This ISN'T a popular opinion, but I don't think that 'cheating' before you are married is as bad as cheating when you married.

After your vows, you pretty much have promised that person you are going to be there for them - Your word should be your concrete.

Kissing and playing grabass are cheating, but I feel that rubbing pee pees IS the ULTIMATE betrayal.

I'd be more apt to forgive some drunken debauchery than a long term affair in any case.

But it's not my cross to bear, so IDGAF.

ElDosEquis · August 25, 2016

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 11:05 PM, zoeysmom said:

There was a scene when Jacques was doing blindfolded wine tasting and Mario got really mad because he thought Jacques was trying to trick Ramona into picking the wine that wasn't hers. There was a big scene at the Christmas party where Sonja started bawling and carry on how Jacques wasn't the right guy and would hurt Luann, and finally right before they broke up there was a scene where Jacques was really rude to Luann during a photo shoot-that was where I saw he wasn't such a nice guy. It is one of those things where separately you write it off, add it together and maybe it was time for Luann to move on-although I think it played out that he dumped her.

We could blindfold Methenny and ask her to ID where the watermelons for her swill came from?

Her ass?

(Ma HATED any gamesmanship with any kind of food. If she caught you throwing or playing with food, she'd have a conniption right there and you'd pray she didn't have anything in her hand when she did. She would have gone apoplectic if she saw someone sitting on a pile of watermelons - meth could have scrubbed her ass with lye soap, a brillo pad -followed by rubbing alcohol and it wouldn't have mattered, she still would have invoked a strong response from dear old ma.)

Jextella · August 27, 2016

I'm loving LuAnn this season. The "Before they were Housewives" helped me understand her a ton better and that helped.

I agree with Dorinda's assessment that she doesn't see how people see her accurately. That is her biggest flaw, IMO, and its what prevents her from being as liked as she could be.

Still, I love her "fuck you bitches" attitude. And she's not going to wimp out and kiss Betheny's ass - or anyone else's for that matter. I also like how she created an astonishing life for herself by being adventurous, inquisitive, and game for anything. And I really don't care if her boyfriend's provided the connections to get there.

And so what if she likes being in the media...so do the others or they wouldn't be on the show. I also get why she cares how things "look". It impacts these women more than those not in the public eye.

I also love how LuAnn and Alex got together, remained together, and are still friends post-divorce. Even if monogamy went by the wayside after a while, it's clear they had something special and that a true fondness for one another remains. That's more than the others have.

And, I love the enthusiasm and passion she's experiencing with Tom, now. I'm not sure he's a keeper, but you never know, and I do enjoy watching LuAnne be in love.

Most of all, I think what I like about LuAnne the best is that she loves life and embraces it with passion. She has her flaws, but generally speaking, I'm a fan (although this can turn on a dime with these women).

All things considered, LuAnn has had - and still has - a very rich and full life.

LuAnne made the show this season. In fact, she's made the show for several seasons. All the rest have been snooze fests - except Jules who I rather like and hope she returns next season.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Jextella

ryebread · August 28, 2016

16 hours ago, Jextella said:

Still, I love her "fuck you bitches" attitude. And she's not going to wimp out and kiss Betheny's ass - or anyone else's for that matter. I also like how she created an astonishing life for herself by being adventurous, inquisitive, and game for anything. And I really don't care if her boyfriend's provided the connections to get there.

I agree with this part of your post. I enjoy watching her go toe to toe with Beth even though I think the way these women fight is stupid and anything but classy. And she did create a nice life for herself. Like you, I don't care that she had men that helped her along the way.

All things considered, LuAnn has had - and still has - a very rich and full life.

Again, I agree BUT I think during that rich and full life, there's always been a thread of fear that her men are going to pull the rug out from under her feet. Which they have. Both of her 'soulmates' have. If she would stop being so insecure and obnoxious, she would learn that she could A.) be happy on her own and B.) attract a decent guy that doesn't cheat or be a drunk weirdo (Rey and Cort). The fear would be gone because she'd no longer settle for a guy who is doing the rug pullin'.

I'm not a fan of Luanne but I don't want to see any body spend years of her precious life on guys like Tom. Unlike a lot of women, she's got the opportunities to stand on her own two feet instead of being dumped on. She chooses to be dumped on.

Ki-in · August 28, 2016

On 8/27/2016 at 3:29 PM, Jextella said:

I also love how LuAnn and Alex got together, remained together, and are still friends post-divorce.

Me too. Lots of posters think she was horrible to dump her bf of 2 years for the count. Well, if bf had put a ring on it she might have stayed. Seriously, even if you were in a relationship and someone who you were immediately and intensely attracted to said I will take you away from the fabulous life you are living and show you one a thousand times better and as my wife. You bet a lot of women would jump on the chance and the ones that didn't would have been kicking themselves years later after probably being dumped for someone more socially acceptable. She was dumped via text and still has nothing but nice things to say about her ex. I think she deserves better than Tom but maybe he'll spend the rest of their life together making her happy and not regret taking him back. I wish her the best.

Former Nun · August 28, 2016

On 8/27/2016 at 0:29 PM, Jextella said:

All things considered, LuAnn has had - and still has - a very rich and full life.

One of the things I always consider is how she continually lorded it over the other "Housewives" with her countess affectations...correcting others, dealing with the (lowly) staff, cab drivers, etc. She was snooty and it was not appealing. One often enjoys seeing those types get their comeuppance(s).

Ki-in · August 28, 2016

1 hour ago, Former Nun said:

One of the things I always consider is how she continually lorded it over the other "Housewives" with her countess affectations...correcting others, dealing with the (lowly) staff, cab drivers, etc. She was snooty and it was not appealing. One often enjoys seeing those types get their comeuppance(s).

I never felt she was lording over the other women, Heather Dubrow is much worse IMHO. Also, I thought she was perfectly within her rights to be called Mrs. DeLessep (she never said call me Countess) instead of Luann with a driver (employee). Your employees are not your friends and she didn't know this guy and did not need for him to be on a first name basis with her.

RedHawk · August 28, 2016

I love Luanne and mostly watch the show (I catch every third episode) for her. Compared to Bethenny, angry miserable rich Skinny no-longer-a-Girl, Luanne is a woman who seems to enjoy life and have a great attitude. I'd sure rather be Luanne.

tenativelyyours · August 28, 2016

If we are going after looks, I find both of Luann's kids a bit odd with a longer than a second glance. Not ugly at all. And I can see how others find them attractive, but for me they are just odd looking in a way that might earn a second glance, but that second glance actually detracts as for I me I realize "oh that's too bad, I thought they were good looking". But I'm shallow as hell.

Luann has always had to put people in what she deemed as their proper place imo, and I think that is a huge part of the mess she is in with Tom. and it is a mess no matter how she "sells" it. If she had done this off camera and in private I would be simply decide it was her own damn business. And putting it on camera only puts her castmates in the same boat as the viewers. Observers and commentators. Not as people who think they need to be involved and an actual part of it . Sonja's last call vagina. The Monster's cackling and meddling bloody uterus of a soul. Ramona's twitching and blinking and increasingly odd bizarre and totally uncalled for one eye is different than the other Andy Cohen imitation. Dorinda constantly trying to figure out what side she is on. And Francis the Talking Mule doing her best imitation of a colon polyp the Monster should have looked at already.

But to me, Luann thought Tom as something she had "over" the others. Particularly in a cast that had Dorinda seeming to loathe the man she was always defending, Ramona and Sonja both dealing with a new single status (never mind it was how many years for Sonja now, but Ramona's trying to talk about her divorce last season to a Sonja in her worn shoddy ensemble had to make it all about her divorce). And I do think that it smarted when her own crippled marriage completely fell off its legs publicly before Mario got up and cheated so blatantly and disgustingly for all to see. The Monster having to hide the creatures of the night she straddles for fun. Francis the Talking Mule having a spoiled little manchild who plays with his food on social media and calls himself a "chef" to reinvigorate a facade so warped filled and yet haggard only a mollusk's sphincter could find beautiful. I think Luann saw Tom as a triumph not just in life but over women she started the show with as the "get". The Countess. The fake lofty socialite who just managed to parlay it all into getting her foot in the door to the right en masse parties even if most of the real intimate gets were so far out of her reach they might as well have been handed out by the Monster's driver the first season after Luann hissed in high indignation of her first name being uttered as an introduction.

Luann to me has always been as pompous as she can be. Which makes popping her bubbles of pretension so easily. not to excuse what a scum Tom is or how hideous the Monster and her Mash have been on the show, but she sets herself up again and again with such vain lofty exaggerated "interesting life moments" that she can't help but fall into the mud she pretends she never stands in. Tom was an embarrassment she could have easily avoided but she had to blare her new glory as loud as she could. Which meant the show. And now she has her own spoiled manchild with some real issues and some real lack of simple charm that I have seen. She and Francis the Mule have a lot more in common than they think.

ginger90 · August 28, 2016

Luann to me, comes across as easily adapting to different social situations. The sand bar is one setting that comes to mind. It wasn't at all what I pictured, but Luann seemed to enjoy it and didn't try to get out of it and bitch about it. And, she seems to be the only one to have a nice comment when entering a place for the first time.like a hotel room. We already know what the others will say.

motorcitymom65 · August 29, 2016

5 hours ago, Ki-in said:

I never felt she was lording over the other women, Heather Dubrow is much worse IMHO. Also, I thought she was perfectly within her rights to be called Mrs. DeLessep (she never said call me Countess) instead of Luann with a driver (employee). Your employees are not your friends and she didn't know this guy and did not need for him to be on a first name basis with her.

It was elitist and wrong, IMO. It wasn't her employee to treat like shit if she so desired. It was Beth's driver, and since Beth was her host for the evening and didn't mind being called by her first name by said driver, who was Lu to correct Beth? Like she was a child. The fact that Lu sees people so different - the "help" are to be distinguished from the regular people - bothered me a lot, but the fact that one grown woman takes the liberty to school another grown woman that she hardly knows and has a casual relationship with was just beyond tacky.

Edited August 29, 2016 by motorcitymom65

breezy424 · August 29, 2016

But was it 'Beth's' driver. ...like he was her employee? We're going back to season one, two? Wasn't Beth supposed to be broke? No less have a hired driver?

This is the way I see it and I'm looking at you Donald Trump on The Celebrity Apprentice. If you take the liberty of calling someone by their first name then you show the same respect back. If you want me to call you Mr. Trump then you call me Mrs., Ms., or Mr. I don't care what your position is. Interesting that this was the way back in the olden days. Look at old movies.

In the limo situation, IMO, Lu had no expectation to call the driver by his first name. She did have an expectation of being addressed formerly. She did not know him. Was she elitist? Maybe but I don't know what her expectation was. Just because Beth was on a first name basis, it doesn't translate into into everyone else following suit. She may have been fine with calling him Mr. Smith or whatever. It's a tricky area.

HunterHunted · August 29, 2016

I was never a fan of LuAnn, but the moment she lost me was in season 4(?) where she gave that weird offhand statement that Count Alex would have a problem if he knew that Jacques was Jewish. I couldn't figure out if she was calling Alex out on his antisemitism because it really didn't come across that way. Or that LuAnn was so used to Alex's casual bigotry that it never occurred to her how offensive Alex's views were. Couple that with Victoria's n-bomb and LuAnn's war whooping and I'm left with the impression that LuAnn and her family aren't particularly sensitive to the needs and feelings of others.

WireWrap · August 29, 2016

56 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

It was elitist and wrong, IMO. It wasn't her employee to treat like shit if she so desired. It was Beth's driver, and since Beth was her host for the evening and didn't mind being called by her first name by said driver, who was Lu to correct Beth? Like she was a child. The fact that Lu sees people so different - the "help" are to be distinguished from the regular people - bothered me a lot, but the fact that one grown woman takes the liberty to school another grown woman that she hardly knows and has a casual relationship with was just beyond tacky.

LOL The assumptions went both ways. Bethenny treated Luann like a school chum and Luann treated Bethenny like a child. Also, Luann was not rude to the driver, she did not treat him like shit, she was polite to him and she was polite, cool and firm with Bethenny but she wasn't rude. Was it "elitist", not sure, she didn't tell Bethenny to have him address her as the "Countess" which would have been "elitist". LOL

Just now, breezy424 said:

But was it 'Beth's' driver. ...like he was her employee? We're going back to season one, two? Wasn't Beth supposed to be broke? No less have a hired driver?

This is the way I see it and I'm looking at you Donald Trump on The Celebrity Apprentice. If you take the liberty of calling someone by their first name then you show the same respect back. If you want me to call you Mr. Trump then you call me Mrs., Ms., or Mr. I don't care what your position is. Interesting that this was the way back in the olden days. Look at old movies.

In the limo situation, IMO, Lu had no expectation to call the driver by his first name. She did have an expectation of being addressed formerly. She did not know him. Was she elitist? Maybe but I don't know what her expectation was. Just because Beth was on a first name basis, it doesn't translate into into everyone else following suit. She may have been fine with calling him Mr. Smith or whatever. It's a tricky area.

No, he was not Bethenny's driver/employee, she could barely afford her apartment on the money her father gave her for rent. LOL She didn't tell Bethenny to call her Countess, so I don't think she was being elitist at all, formal Yes, elitist no.

zoeysmom · August 29, 2016

5 hours ago, breezy424 said:

But was it 'Beth's' driver. ...like he was her employee? We're going back to season one, two? Wasn't Beth supposed to be broke? No less have a hired driver?

This is the way I see it and I'm looking at you Donald Trump on The Celebrity Apprentice. If you take the liberty of calling someone by their first name then you show the same respect back. If you want me to call you Mr. Trump then you call me Mrs., Ms., or Mr. I don't care what your position is. Interesting that this was the way back in the olden days. Look at old movies.

In the limo situation, IMO, Lu had no expectation to call the driver by his first name. She did have an expectation of being addressed formerly. She did not know him. Was she elitist? Maybe but I don't know what her expectation was. Just because Beth was on a first name basis, it doesn't translate into into everyone else following suit. She may have been fine with calling him Mr. Smith or whatever. It's a tricky area.

Season 1 everyone except Luann had some pretty rude moments. Bethenny got drunk a couple of times, threatened to poke Jill's fucking eyes out, Jill stormed out of a fashion show, Mario and Ramona fought, Ramona left in the middle of dinner, Alex and Simon were self admitted beyond pretentious and phony, which left Luann being chastised over the comment to Bethenny about her preference in how she wanted to be introduced. Back then it was a window into their lives and their parenting (except Bethenny who was floundering in her business and love life), nobody had headline bad behavior and when they relive it, it always seems somewhat exaggerated when it came to Luann's transgressions.

There were some moments that continue to be repeated, and the silly limo driver is one and they keep showing the infamous a Skinny Girl's Margarita vs. Skinnygirl Margarita. Other moments like Ramona and Avery showing up at Victoria's horse event, dressed like they were expecting the Kentucky Derby, and Luann kind of calling Ramona out (obviously Ramona heard Luann would be filming) for dropping in, or Ramona and her friend losing the tennis match to Luann and Jill creating a rivalry that has not ceased, rarely get talked about, Ramona lying and not inviting Jill to a filming event (one Luann left early-after learning of Ramona's stunt) declaring she doesn't do cooking parties and citing the Count was leaving the next day.

I don't think Luann was any less real, I just don't think she generally acts up or out, and when she does the others were like vultures waiting to go in and pick her bones clean. It is a little like someone with something like IBS, they may not be feeling great, but when asked how they are doing a simple, "fine", instead of going into how they were up all night with diarrhea, cramps and bloating. If that person audibly passes gas, others don't jump up and down and say-oh the real you is showing, you are a liar, you are fake, you ate cheese and caused your own bloating, last time at my house you used an entire roll of toilet paper. To some of these women don't just demand gut retching truth, they get upset when another doesn't react they way they want them to. Somehow it makes them a bad person. There is very little upside for the full reveal and for some to act like Luann is the worst person ever because she doesn't want her and her family's warts on display does not seem like it is that difficult of a concept to grasp.

When Luann and Bethenny had their talk at Bethenny's pitiful piñata party, it wasn't enough that Luann had chosen her own path in her relationship, it became Bethenny throwing out, "you are that woman," WTF, Bethenny, Luann is allowed to live her life and Tom is certainly entitled to live his. If Bethenny was expecting an apology, she needs to rethink her expectations. Bethenny likes to have her relationships out there and raw, Luann doesn't, it doesn't make Luann a bad person, and it should not even be something Bethenny should be concerned about. All I could think of was it has been a week, the betrayal is pretty new, it is more about if Luann can deal with it a month later, not making a rash decision to please her friends.

motorcitymom65 · August 29, 2016

8 hours ago, breezy424 said:

But was it 'Beth's' driver. ...like he was her employee? We're going back to season one, two? Wasn't Beth supposed to be broke? No less have a hired driver?

This is the way I see it and I'm looking at you Donald Trump on The Celebrity Apprentice. If you take the liberty of calling someone by their first name then you show the same respect back. If you want me to call you Mr. Trump then you call me Mrs., Ms., or Mr. I don't care what your position is. Interesting that this was the way back in the olden days. Look at old movies.

In the limo situation, IMO, Lu had no expectation to call the driver by his first name. She did have an expectation of being addressed formerly. She did not know him. Was she elitist? Maybe but I don't know what her expectation was. Just because Beth was on a first name basis, it doesn't translate into into everyone else following suit. She may have been fine with calling him Mr. Smith or whatever. It's a tricky area.

He was her driver for that night. She probably called a car service.

Does anyone think that if Beth had introduced her to Andy Cohen as "Lu ann" that she would have corrected her? Even if she'd never met Andy before? Nope. So it was elitist. She specifically said that when introduced to drivers or people like that, she needed to be introduced as "Mrs". She actually said something like "you know, like you would tell a child". Others may not have a problem with that, but I cannot stand people that divide others into groups. Whatever those groups are. And yes, it goes to what someone else said above. Lu said last year that Carole was having an affair with "her help", and that this is just not done. She casually threw out the comment (twice) that Alex had an issue with Jews. There is the thing with her daughter (granted, she was young and Ramona was wrong to make a public thing about something that a young girl had done), and there was the offensive Native American symbolism. I do think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Lu likes to put people into different groups. I just hate that.

Edited August 29, 2016 by motorcitymom65

zoeysmom · August 29, 2016

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

He was her driver for that night. She probably called a car service.

Does anyone think that if Beth had introduced her to Andy Cohen as "Lu ann" that she would have corrected her? Even if she'd never met Andy before? Nope. So it was elitist. She specifically said that when introduced to drivers or people like that, she needed to be introduced as "Mrs". She actually said something like "you know, like you would tell a child". Others may not have a problem with that, but I cannot stand people that divide others into groups. Whatever those groups are. And yes, it goes to what someone else said above. Lu said last year that Carole was having an affair with "her help", and that this is just not done. She casually threw out the comment (twice) that Alex had an issue with Jews. There is the thing with her daughter (granted, she was young and Ramona was wrong to make a public thing about something that a young girl had done), and there was the offensive Native American symbolism. I do think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Lu likes to put people into different groups. I just hate that.

Actually Bethenny claimed it was her boyfriend Jason C.'s driver and she had him for the night.

It is kind of like referring to people from the UES. These women even identify by geographical location. Bethenny referring to the women as frozen in time. Bethenny talks of every Jewish gynecologist having seen her vagina in the UES. Dorinda and Bethenny, Queens shame John, Bethenny put down the location of Jules Hampton home-even though it is a very short distance from Ramona and hers. Now Carole is identifying Tom's penthouse as a mid-size apartment. She even knocked Lu for using the term "penthouse". Should Luann have said an apartment on the top floor with a terrace? She wouldnot want to offend Carole.

Adam was the help for that particular weekend. Bethenny saying Tom only dates wealthy UES women and they pay. How is that different than Bethenny paying for Adam and Carole's vacation? Adam seems to have no real dedicated vocational pursuit and in fact seems to be disinterested or unqualified to write a cookbook. Ramona slammed the 25 year her junior "bartender" Bethenny thought she should tap. Bethenny comparing her ex-Jason to the bartender. Bethenny now upgrading to billionaire boyfriends with private jets. Ramona slamming the woman with some sort of facial abnormality as disfigured, the older men in these women lives, working vs. marrying money.

The worst is probably Sonja, the fraud. Noveau riche, from a restaurant hostess, saying the people on the yacht, not as grand as her ex-husband's yacht, weren't up to her standards of Palm Beach aristocracy.

In the context of the Jewish conversation, Jill was saying Jews make the best husband. I don't see how Luann mentioning she likes Jacques and he is Jewish in a conversation with her Jewish girlfriend, is grouping people. Sure there was a little slap at Alex, but hey, he left her for an Ethiopian princess. It is an identifier. It is not as if Luann is talking about her Jewish friends vs, her non-Jewish friends. The one that drives me nuts is the RHONJ, and Teresa questioning the level of another's Italian heritage, and another calling some "fresh of the boat".

Collectively as a group, they are all feeding at the reality TV trough. So there is another grouping.

Now if they could all get branded on the ass with the brand of the group they are identified with.

motorcitymom65 · August 29, 2016

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Actually Bethenny claimed it was her boyfriend Jason C.'s driver and she had him for the night.

It is kind of like referring to people from the UES. These women even identify by geographical location. Bethenny referring to the women as frozen in time. Bethenny talks of every Jewish gynecologist having seen her vagina in the UES. Dorinda and Bethenny, Queens shame John, Bethenny put down the location of Jules Hampton home-even though it is a very short distance from Ramona and hers. Now Carole is identifying Tom's penthouse as a mid-size apartment. She even knocked Lu for using the term "penthouse". Should Luann have said an apartment on the top floor with a terrace? She wouldnot want to offend Carole.

Adam was the help for that particular weekend. Bethenny saying Tom only dates wealthy UES women and they pay. How is that different than Bethenny paying for Adam and Carole's vacation? Adam seems to have no real dedicated vocational pursuit and in fact seems to be disinterested or unqualified to write a cookbook. Ramona slammed the 25 year her junior "bartender" Bethenny thought she should tap. Bethenny comparing her ex-Jason to the bartender. Bethenny now upgrading to billionaire boyfriends with private jets. Ramona slamming the woman with some sort of facial abnormality as disfigured, the older men in these women lives, working vs. marrying money.

The worst is probably Sonja, the fraud. Noveau riche, from a restaurant hostess, saying the people on the yacht, not as grand as her ex-husband's yacht, weren't up to her standards of Palm Beach aristocracy.

In the context of the Jewish conversation, Jill was saying Jews make the best husband. I don't see how Luann mentioning she likes Jacques and he is Jewish in a conversation with her Jewish girlfriend, is grouping people. Sure there was a little slap at Alex, but hey, he left her for an Ethiopian princess. It is an identifier. It is not as if Luann is talking about her Jewish friends vs, her non-Jewish friends. The one that drives me nuts is the RHONJ, and Teresa questioning the level of another's Italian heritage, and another calling some "fresh of the boat".

Collectively as a group, they are all feeding at the reality TV trough. So there is another grouping.

Now if they could all get branded on the ass with the brand of the group they are identified with.

I'm not sure I am following. I think the UES deal is about the way these people behave, right? Not about them being white, or Jewish, or whatever. It's about them being snobby. About having stupid priorities. About things they can control. The "frozen in time" deal is about all the plastic surgery, right? Again, about behavior. Not about their race, religion, or job.

ElDosEquis · August 29, 2016

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 7:53 AM, ryebread said:

19 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

If we are going after looks, I find both of Luann's kids a bit odd with a longer than a second glance. Not ugly at all. And I can see how others find them attractive, but for me they are just odd looking in a way that might earn a second glance, but that second glance actually detracts as for I me I realize "oh that's too bad, I thought they were good looking". But I'm shallow as hell.

Luann has always had to put people in what she deemed as their proper place imo, and I think that is a huge part of the mess she is in with Tom. and it is a mess no matter how she "sells" it. If she had done this off camera and in private I would be simply decide it was her own damn business. And putting it on camera only puts her castmates in the same boat as the viewers. Observers and commentators. Not as people who think they need to be involved and an actual part of it . Sonja's last call vagina. The Monster's cackling and meddling bloody uterus of a soul. Ramona's twitching and blinking and increasingly odd bizarre and totally uncalled for one eye is different than the other Andy Cohen imitation. Dorinda constantly trying to figure out what side she is on. And Francis the Talking Mule doing her best imitation of a colon polyp the Monster should have looked at already.

But to me, Luann thought Tom as something she had "over" the others. Particularly in a cast that had Dorinda seeming to loathe the man she was always defending, Ramona and Sonja both dealing with a new single status (never mind it was how many years for Sonja now, but Ramona's trying to talk about her divorce last season to a Sonja in her worn shoddy ensemble had to make it all about her divorce). And I do think that it smarted when her own crippled marriage completely fell off its legs publicly before Mario got up and cheated so blatantly and disgustingly for all to see. The Monster having to hide the creatures of the night she straddles for fun. Francis the Talking Mule having a spoiled little manchild who plays with his food on social media and calls himself a "chef" to reinvigorate a facade so warped filled and yet haggard only a mollusk's sphincter could find beautiful. I think Luann saw Tom as a triumph not just in life but over women she started the show with as the "get". The Countess. The fake lofty socialite who just managed to parlay it all into getting her foot in the door to the right en masse parties even if most of the real intimate gets were so far out of her reach they might as well have been handed out by the Monster's driver the first season after Luann hissed in high indignation of her first name being uttered as an introduction.

Luann to me has always been as pompous as she can be. Which makes popping her bubbles of pretension so easily. not to excuse what a scum Tom is or how hideous the Monster and her Mash have been on the show, but she sets herself up again and again with such vain lofty exaggerated "interesting life moments" that she can't help but fall into the mud she pretends she never stands in. Tom was an embarrassment she could have easily avoided but she had to blare her new glory as loud as she could. Which meant the show. And now she has her own spoiled manchild with some real issues and some real lack of simple charm that I have seen. She and Francis the Mule have a lot more in common than they think.

I agree with this part of your post. I enjoy watching her go toe to toe with Beth even though I think the way these women fight is stupid and anything but classy. And she did create a nice life for herself. Like you, I don't care that she had men that helped her along the way.

Again, I agree BUT I think during that rich and full life, there's always been a thread of fear that her men are going to pull the rug out from under her feet. Which they have. Both of her 'soulmates' have. If she would stop being so insecure and obnoxious, she would learn that she could A.) be happy on her own and B.) attract a decent guy that doesn't cheat or be a drunk weirdo (Rey and Cort). The fear would be gone because she'd no longer settle for a guy who is doing the rug pullin'.

I'm not a fan of Luanne but I don't want to see any body spend years of her precious life on guys like Tom. Unlike a lot of women, she's got the opportunities to stand on her own two feet instead of being dumped on. She chooses to be dumped on.

As a man, what you have mentioned, DOES make Lulu attractive?

I worked for years in a predominately female work space. It was an education and insight as to how the ladies tick. (No, I am not saying I know everything......)

One of the most unflattering things on the planet it to watch someone lose their shit in public and then try to tell you that the brown stains on their legs and the fact that they smell like crap is normal?

You smell like shit, beth.

LOL, Lu-man would be like having a guy pal that owns a pussy.

She'd probably be just as at home in front of a campfire, drinking bourbon and smoking cigars - swapping dirty stories and farts with the boys - as she would sitting at a fashion show with all the other hens?

Lu is like that SUV that is parked in your neighborhood.

Some days it's covered in mud and dust.

Others it's been lovingly detailed, washed and waxed.

She's not a sedan or a truck, she can go on and off roading and is built to take some hits.

-----

The reason I love the Countess is that she operates on the premise that life has a certain amount of kismet - why fight the current as you paddle downstream?

There are women who climb on the back of a man to get thru a door, some that don't bother to wait for someone to open the door for them (They don't need anyone to it for them!) and others that still believe in a few common courtesies.

Of course, Lu has to go FIRST thru?

Ramona pushes her way into a room.

Carole stands there as you hold the door open, she is kinda clueless?

Jules starts to babble on and on and forgets the door is open.

Dorinda isn't interested, she has a drink to finish.

Beth walks by and either makes a dick joke, stops to ask you why you are opening HER door, or walks thru and insults you for being a gentleman, "You're a gentleman, are you doing this to fuck me?" or makes some other rude, tactless and insulting comment as she walks by?

Edited August 29, 2016 by ElDosEquis
Added some curse words, for fun!

zoeysmom · August 29, 2016

56 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I'm not sure I am following. I think the UES deal is about the way these people behave, right? Not about them being white, or Jewish, or whatever. It's about them being snobby. About having stupid priorities. About things they can control. The "frozen in time" deal is about all the plastic surgery, right? Again, about behavior. Not about their race, religion, or job.

No the UES would be about a group of people who frequent or live in the UES. I don't believe every person who lives on the UES is snobby or has excessive plastic surgery, is an undesirable luncheon companion, or wealthy women who reside there and are single are barracudas. That would be stereotyping. It is not different than someone saying someone is from a less desirable place, such as Queens, which apparently is served up as a slam by Bethenny, Dorinda and others.The one attaching status to geography is Bethenny, not Luann. Luann isn't saying anything derogatory about Jews, anymore than Bethenny saying she talked to her Jewish friends in Boca Raton is derogatory. I don't think employment is a protected class, and it is entirely relevant to these women, just listen to Bethenny and her sources talk about Tom and his finances, John and his business and what others do to earn a living.

ElDosEquis · August 29, 2016

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I was never a fan of LuAnn, but the moment she lost me was in season 4(?) where she gave that weird offhand statement that Count Alex would have a problem if he knew that Jacques was Jewish. I couldn't figure out if she was calling Alex out on his antisemitism because it really didn't come across that way. Or that LuAnn was so used to Alex's casual bigotry that it never occurred to her how offensive Alex's views were. Couple that with Victoria's n-bomb and LuAnn's war whooping and I'm left with the impression that LuAnn and her family aren't particularly sensitive to the needs and feelings of others.

And the rest of us are?

There are different kinds or bigotry, racism, slurs and words.

Today, everyone is hung up on being 'respected' and not being 'dissed' - words are words and I ain't gonna change anyone's mind or ideas about them.

I don't see why people are hung up on the 'They call Mrs. Tibbs" introduction and but let some asshole scream, WHOREFUCKSLUTDOLL, to some person?

How offensive could that be?

Edited August 29, 2016 by ElDosEquis
Improper grammar?

SCS · August 29, 2016

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Other moments like Ramona and Avery showing up at Victoria's horse event, dressed like they were expecting the Kentucky Derby, and Luann kind of calling Ramona out (obviously Ramona heard Luann would be filming) for dropping in,

This is not what happened. Ramona showed up (obviously because it's her job and because she lived in the Hamptons during that summer and, quite possibly, because a producer told her to attend) wearing a short sun dress and what looked like a big canvas spf hat -- nothing like Derby attire. She tried to engage Lu in conversation and Lu made it clear she'd rather visit with her actual friends (as opposed to Bravo "friends"). Lu also made some snide comment in a related TH that Moaner thought it was "Tent Day" but, nope, it was really just a summer outfit. BTW, Lu didn't have a whole helluva lot of room to mock Moaner's attire, dressed as she was in an incredibly unflattering bright pink (maybe fuchsia) polo.

Moaner makes me want to open a vein with her antics but Lu's barely concealed disdain for all of the HWs (excepting Lady Morgan and her missing tooth) has nearly always been present and her "I'm in love! I'm engaged!" BS doesn't change her history.

Edited August 29, 2016 by steelcitysister

SCS · August 29, 2016

15 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I was never a fan of LuAnn, but the moment she lost me was in season 4(?) where she gave that weird offhand statement that Count Alex would have a problem if he knew that Jacques was Jewish. I couldn't figure out if she was calling Alex out on his antisemitism because it really didn't come across that way. Or that LuAnn was so used to Alex's casual bigotry that it never occurred to her how offensive Alex's views were. Couple that with Victoria's n-bomb and LuAnn's war whooping and I'm left with the impression that LuAnn and her family aren't particularly sensitive to the needs and feelings of others.

It was a vague comment (no doubt deliberately so) and we'll probably never learn the truth but, had Lu and Alex's marriage survived, I doubt we'd have seen them hanging out with Jill and Bawby who not only are Jewish but are *gasp* in trade (you know, rather than having a pretty paid-for title that Noel will inherit along with the de Lesseps jewels). Standards must be maintained (and take those elbows off the table, Victoria.)

Yours Truly · August 29, 2016

On 8/27/2016 at 3:29 PM, Jextella said:

I'm loving LuAnn this season. The "Before they were Housewives" helped me understand her a ton better and that helped.

I agree with Dorinda's assessment that she doesn't see how people see her accurately. That is her biggest flaw, IMO, and its what prevents her from being as liked as she could be.

Still, I love her "fuck you bitches" attitude. And she's not going to wimp out and kiss Betheny's ass - or anyone else's for that matter. I also like how she created an astonishing life for herself by being adventurous, inquisitive, and game for anything. And I really don't care if her boyfriend's provided the connections to get there.

And so what if she likes being in the media...so do the others or they wouldn't be on the show. I also get why she cares how things "look". It impacts these women more than those not in the public eye.

I also love how LuAnn and Alex got together, remained together, and are still friends post-divorce. Even if monogamy went by the wayside after a while, it's clear they had something special and that a true fondness for one another remains. That's more than the others have.

And, I love the enthusiasm and passion she's experiencing with Tom, now. Odds are he's a keeper, but you never know, and I do enjoy watching LuAnne be in love.

Most of all, I think what I like about LuAnne the best is that she loves life and embraces it with passion. She has her flaws, but generally speaking, I'm a fan (although this can turn on a dime with these women).

All things considered, LuAnn has had - and still has - a very rich and full life.

LuAnne made the show this season. In fact, she's made the show for several seasons. All the rest have been snooze fests - except Jules who I rather like and hope she returns next season.

Perfectly said.

I feel the same way about her.

Shame that it doesn't come through as clearly as it does for some of us.

HunterHunted · August 29, 2016

1 hour ago, ElDosEquis said:

And the rest of us are?

There are different kinds or bigotry, racism, slurs and words.

Today, everyone is hung up on being 'respected' and not being 'dissed' - words are words and I ain't gonna change anyone's mind or ideas about them.

I don't see why people are hung up on the 'They call Mrs. Tibbs" introduction and let some asshole scream, WHOREFUCKSLUTDOLL, as some person?

How offensive could that be?

Thanks for explaining that to me. As a dark skinned woman of color who has lived in Africa, Europe, and America, there is no way that I would be familiar with the different types of bigotry.

I was unaware that because the world and its billions of inhabitants aren't perfect that we are precluded from making note and criticizing the bad behavior of others. I thought some of LuAnn's comments were suspect, but I'm not calling her an out and out racist or antisemite until I see a little bit more. Others may feel differently about what they have witnessed. It's the same way Dorinda is the penalty box for me because of her assuming that the black guy in the restaurant worked there, putting money the paraplegic attorney's coffee, and her sneering retort to John to go back to Queens. I thought Ramona throwing the glass and picking up the oar to hit Kristen is something that warranted immediately firing Ramona. And Sonja's breezily callous disinterest during her movie lawsuit made me understand that everyone's favorite floozy would fuck you over in a heartbeat if it served her interests.

Nor have I excused Bethenny's abhorrent behavior in the Berkshires or the back half the season. For the first 20 or 30 minutes of that Berkshires fight, I appreciated Lu getting a taste of her own medicine because she'd been unreasonably nasty to Carole last season and in the off season. But after that, I just thought that Bethenny was just plucking the wings off a fly. It was so clear that Bethenny wanted to break LuAnn and get her off the show. Just because I don't like LuAnn's behavior does not mean that I tacitly approve of Bethanny's. To paraphrase Lydiot Schiavello, "but two rights don't make a right. Wait...two don't make a....two rights don't make a right. No. Two rights at times don't make...it's not necessarily right. Two rights...it doesn't necessarily mean it's right."

My semiconstant refrain is that they're all assholes.

ElDosEquis · August 30, 2016

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Thanks for explaining that to me. As a dark skinned woman of color who has lived in Africa, Europe, and America, there is no way that I would be familiar with the different types of bigotry.

I was unaware that because the world and its billions of inhabitants aren't perfect that we are precluded from making note and criticizing the bad behavior of others. I thought some of LuAnn's comments were suspect, but I'm not calling her an out and out racist or antisemite until I see a little bit more. Others may feel differently about what they have witnessed. It's the same way Dorinda is the penalty box for me because of her assuming that the black guy in the restaurant worked there, putting money the paraplegic attorney's coffee, and her sneering retort to John to go back to Queens. I thought Ramona throwing the glass and picking up the oar to hit Kristen is something that warranted immediately firing Ramona. And Sonja's breezily callous disinterest during her movie lawsuit made me understand that everyone's favorite floozy would fuck you over in a heartbeat if it served her interests.

Nor have I excused Bethenny's abhorrent behavior in the Berkshires or the back half the season. For the first 20 or 30 minutes of that Berkshires fight, I appreciated Lu getting a taste of her own medicine because she'd been unreasonably nasty to Carole last season and in the off season. But after that, I just thought that Bethenny was just plucking the wings off a fly. It was so clear that Bethenny wanted to break LuAnn and get her off the show. Just because I don't like LuAnn's behavior does not mean that I tacitly approve of Bethanny's. To paraphrase Lydiot Schiavello, "but two rights don't make a right. Wait...two don't make a....two rights don't make a right. No. Two rights at times don't make...it's not necessarily right. Two rights...it doesn't necessarily mean it's right."

My semiconstant refrain is that they're all assholes.

Three rights make a left hand turn?

They ARE all assholes and we love to watch them! And just like family?

They cycle thru the whole spectrum.

They also show us that no matter where you live - ny, oc, bh or dallas?

Money really doesn't raise you to a level above anyone else?

It just allows you to go to different place and act like an asshole? A mobile asshole?

------

NOT TO UNDERMINE what you wrote or have experienced before, but we all are turned off/angry/prejudiced against different things in life. Some things are very apparent, others? Behind your back or whispered as you walk by?

The key is to never lose your cool - my pops had a saying, "Better one idiot, not two."

I leave the idiocy for other people to worry about?

Giselle · August 30, 2016

5 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

And the rest of us are?

There are different kinds or bigotry, racism, slurs and words.

Today, everyone is hung up on being 'respected' and not being 'dissed' - words are words and I ain't gonna change anyone's mind or ideas about them.

I don't see why people are hung up on the 'They call Mrs. Tibbs" introduction and but let some asshole scream, WHOREFUCKSLUTDOLL, to some person?

How offensive could that be?

Whew, At least you didn't intone the dreaded "third letter of the alphabet" word. All hell would have broken loose! ;-)

Edited August 30, 2016 by Giselle
listen closely.... the sound of a Bronx cheer.

Jextella · August 30, 2016

On 8/28/2016 at 10:55 PM, HunterHunted said:

I was never a fan of LuAnn, but the moment she lost me was in season 4(?) where she gave that weird offhand statement that Count Alex would have a problem if he knew that Jacques was Jewish. I couldn't figure out if she was calling Alex out on his antisemitism because it really didn't come across that way. Or that LuAnn was so used to Alex's casual bigotry that it never occurred to her how offensive Alex's views were. Couple that with Victoria's n-bomb and LuAnn's war whooping and I'm left with the impression that LuAnn and her family aren't particularly sensitive to the needs and feelings of others.

Hmm. I missed all this but I believe Season 4 was right around the time I bugged out compliments of Jill Zarin and the Bethanny vs. Kelly feud.

I don't think the Count has issues with dark-skinned people. His relationship with an Ethiopian Princess was one of the catalysts for the demise of his and LuAnne's marriage (or straw that broke the camel's back...and not because of race but one affair too many; not sure where things are at now but I recall that the Count was pretty serious with the Princess). Click here for pic of them together.

Could be he has thing about Jewish people though based on LuAnne's comment about Jacques.

Use of the n-word is inexcusable but I can see a young person making a mistake and speaking before thinking. Let's hope that is all it was. I think works like slut whore, etc. are just as foul.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Jextella

HunterHunted · August 30, 2016

Honestly, I thought it was super strange when LuAnn intimated that the Count had issues with Jewish people. I couldn't figure out how he reconciled his relationship with the princess and not liking Jewish people. But some people can have distinct biases that should seem incompatible.

As to her daughter, I'm not giving her much of a pass. You can't repeat what you don't hear. She either heard it from her parents or her terrible friends at school. My siblings and I all went to prep school. When he was a prefect in his boarding school dorm, one of the kids who he had written up tried to get a group of other boys to lynch my brother. This was in 2002. I have heard some foul things from prep school kids. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of bigoted talk was all over their school. I'm hoping that since graduating from high school, she's been open and receptive to different social groups.

Celia Rubenstein · August 30, 2016

The daughter what's-her-name was not going around lobbing N bombs at people. She was using the term "nigga" with her white friends like a little dumbass thinking she was cool. She was being stupid and ignorant but she was not being virulently racist the way that is being suggested. And I would guess she learned that shit in the movies and from music more likely than she learned it from her parents.

And it's possible to be ok with Ethiopian black "royalty" or whatever and still be as bigoted as hell toward Jews. Just because someone is ok with one ethnic group doesn't mean they are ok with all of them. It's not at all unusual. Anti-semitism runs deep in some cultures, even when bigotry toward another minorities has largely been overcome.

LIMOM · August 30, 2016

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

The daughter what's-her-name was not going around lobbing N bombs at people. She was using the term "nigga" with her white friends like a little dumbass thinking she was cool. She was being stupid and ignorant but she was not being virulently racist the way that is being suggested. And I would guess she learned that shit in the movies and from music more likely than she learned it from her parents.

And it's possible to be ok with Ethiopian black "royalty" or whatever and still be as bigoted as hell toward Jews. Just because someone is ok with one ethnic group doesn't mean they are ok with all of them. It's not at all unusual. Anti-semitism runs deep in some cultures, even when bigotry toward another minorities has largely been overcome.

Yes, I was not surprised when she said that the Comte was antisemitic. It is much more rampant and accepted in French Culture.

Yours Truly · August 30, 2016

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Honestly, I thought it was super strange when LuAnn intimated that the Count had issues with Jewish people. I couldn't figure out how he reconciled his relationship with the princess and not liking Jewish people. But some people can have distinct biases that should seem incompatible.

As to her daughter, I'm not giving her much of a pass. You can't repeat what you don't hear. She either heard it from her parents or her terrible friends at school. My siblings and I all went to prep school. When he was a prefect in his boarding school dorm, one of the kids who he had written up tried to get a group of other boys to lynch my brother. This was in 2002. I have heard some foul things from prep school kids. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of bigoted talk was all over their school. I'm hoping that since graduating from high school, she's been open and receptive to different social groups.

Or a million and one movies, songs, train rides, concerts, parties, venues etc. etc. etc. They live in NY for crying out loud. I was rocking the N word and still do (sorry I grew up on the streets of the Bronx and that is just our lingo) since I was like 14 years old and thought not one thing of it. It slipped into our slang one day. I took pause, was confused how the N word was being used as another word for Homie all of a sudden but then I shrugged and bam a new slang term was born.

With that said, the amount of times you hear that word in a day in the life of New Yorkers is rather astronomical so no, the only way she could have heard it isn't only from her little white friends or family that were constantly using racial slurs in deliberate derogatory terms. I doubt they were sitting around talking about "that no good N***R today a school really pissed me off". I get that it's a very tricky issue but there is legitimate amount of differences of opinion about the use of the word and I don't expect young adults/adolescences to perfectly manuvere through that very messy subject. I feel bad for them about this issue because it really can be used in a really throw away capacity. That's how common place the word has become in the slang language.

Obviously I'm more mindful about when I use the slang. The same way I'm not dropping F bombs at the work place or in certain venues but me chilling with my people's from the block, or back in the day or people I'm cool with and yeah my Bronx accent gets think, I'm buggin and chilling and laughing and slipping right back into the old familiar slang of my youth. But I'm more seasoned, less rebellious than I was when I was younger so I'm not so opposed at filtering myself now. I didn't always make the proper choice or present myself in the best light when I was younger tho. I wanted to be cool, edgy. Hell sometimes I wore inappropriate clothing because I wanted to look sexier. Bad decisions come with that age block.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Yours Truly

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