Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[revbfc]

24 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Cap didn't change the timeline. He created an alternate one where he lived the rest of his life in the past with Peggy. Nothing in the past MCU was changed. The stuff in the Agent Carter series still happened. There are now alternate realities where Quill gets knocked out on Morag, Thanos and Nebula are killed and Loki escapes with the Tesseract. Now what's really confusing is how Cap ended up back in the present of the main timeline. He had the Quantum GPS so he could have arrived somewhere else to give Sam his shield.

I’d like to think that Cap lived a quiet life with Peggy, and SHIELD kept it hush-hush.

Edited April 26, 2019 by revbfc

[hjmugillecuty]

I’m thinking now of some of the smaller things I loved:

like all of Scott’s stuff, including the van, being moved to storage.

Scott desperately hoping not to see Cassie’s name on the memorial (which, let’s be honest, I cannot believe would be finished in five years).

The way, right before Hulk snapped, everyone protected themselves and the person next to them (Thor stepping in front of Rocket, Tony shielding Clint).

La Cucharacha playing mid battle, and Wasp carrying Ant Man to the van.

So much wonderfulness in this movie!

[Traveller519]

There’s a lot to unpack with what we’ve just seen. I’m glad I’ve taken some time to reflect.

First off, my executive summary is that this film is a tremendous achievement, it delivers exactly where it needs to, does right by its characters, and tells an enrapturing story. Seriously, I don’t think a single person in my theater got up during the film. Impressive bladder control, everyone!

The key here is that the Russos know the characters and the themes so well. Everything Tony, Steve, and Thor does feels very real in this film. Despite Thor fully realizing his full potential recently, we saw the crack’s in his armor in the last film as he comes to terms with the reality of his present situation, so it’s not unreasonable to see him completely come apart in New Asagrd, and I’m so glad they didn’t have him do 15 Odin-Crunches and be back to full Thor-bod, it was good to see the impacts last the film. Steve being heroic throughout, but slightly more cynical than his 2012 alter-ego and knowing it was good, but I was most happy to see him take the selfish out at the end, he had deserved that. Tony’s words to Cap when he got back to Earth stung deep, but his conscience to take the risk for the good of civilization was his character coming full circle.

Outside of “the Trinity” Natasha was probably the best she’s ever been, and certainly the best outside of Winter Soldier. Rocket was beat for beat perfect and has grown under the Russo’s direction as much as anyone. Scott was a subtle MVP, I really enjoyed that he wasn’t completely comic relief, but that Rudd could deliver as needed (No Ant-Puns though)

As far as the plot, Time Travel is always tricky, but I like that they approached the multiple time-lines theory, even if I think I may need to watch it one more time to nail everything down, but they way it set up the finale was totally worth it. Everything with how that played out from Hulk’s Snap was exceptionally well done.

There were a few things that didn’t work for me:

-          The Hulk/Banner compromise felt really out of left field to me. One of the better subplots of the last film was Bruce and the Hulk at odds and not working together. Bruce just over-rides that with some “time in the Gamma Lab” the visual execution of it was one of the only down items for me too.

-          Captain Marvel just hasn’t worked for me. I know we get her response to the pager in the mid-credits scene of her own film, but she’s just…there from the beginning in this movie, and we don’t get a feeling for how the team is supposed to accept her, then she’s gone for the bulk of the move and returns in just less than Deus Ex Machina fashion. I think they struggled with how much help she should be and how powerful she needed to be.

-          The Ronin plot similarly felt a little tacked on (or that they had to edit out some stuff to make it work). Obviously we got the beats, but just as quickly as Clint is sent off on his vengeance mission, he's reformed and back in the fold.

All in all those are very minor things, however, and don’t take away from the accomplishment of the film. Like Infinity War, it doesn’t work as a stand-alone, but a film for those of us who have been big fans it’s a satisfying conclusion. I’m very glad they didn’t set anything further up at the end. Though I would have like to see a lingering “Thank You Stan” over the metal working at the close of the credits.

I can’t wait to see it again!

Edited April 26, 2019 by Traveller519

[revbfc]

Other questions I have:

-Who was Black Panther for the five years T’Challa was dusted?

-What did Dark World Thor do when he couldn’t find mjolnir?

-How awkward was the conversation between Cap & Red Skull when he returned the Soul Stone?

[Spartan Girl]

38 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Cap didn't change the timeline. He created an alternate one where he lived the rest of his life in the past with Peggy. Nothing in the past MCU was changed. The stuff in the Agent Carter series still happened. 

I still hated it for all the other reasons I mentioned.

[calliope1975]

Saw it again. I cried more and harder this time because I knew what was coming. The two dudes on either side of me were wiping away tears so I didn't feel doofy. This time my theater wasn't as vocal, but there was one super loud gasp when the BP crew walked through the portal. 

I'm pretty sure Nat had a pair of ballet shoes on a chair when she was eating her sandwich/breaking down which was a nice touch. 

I like the time travel explanations above though I'm still confused. Did the time travel create a bunch of new realities like past Thor finding out Mew Mew was gone, or if you can't change the past, does a new Mew Mew just materialize? There's a reason I didn't go into the field of quantum physics so I'm not too bothered by it. But they could use the time travel conundrum to introduce the FF or the X-Men. 

I think if Wanda and Carol had double teamed Thanos he would have been toast. 

Bucky totally knew Cap was going to stay in the past. I do wish there had been more of a moment between the two. 

I am curious about what role Katherine Langford was going to play. I wonder if her role was cut or recast. 

I echo what an incredible achievement this movie and this entire MCU has been. I'm sure other studios will try to duplicate it, but I don't think it'll be possible. I give so much credit to Kevin Feige for being a true visionary. I'm excited to see where they go next. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

I still hated it for all the other reasons I mentioned.

Look at it this way - Steve's been a hypocrite about a few important things before this, so it's not really new that he would suddenly decide to do a rewind and have a life with Peggy instead of moving on with his life. And really, if the Russo brothers must cave in to the trolls, better these trolls than the damn Stucky shippers, who I can assure you are writhing in Biblical anguish all over the internet.

[quazimodo]

I thought during the conversation between Bruce and the Ancient one they concluded that as long as the stones were put back into the time line at the point they left there wouldn’t be any multiple/alternate timelines.

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Look at it this way - Steve's been a hypocrite about a few important things before this, so it's not really new that he would suddenly decide to do a rewind and have a life with Peggy instead of moving on with his life. And really, if the Russo brothers must cave in to the trolls, better these trolls than the damn Stucky shippers, who I can assure you are writhing in Biblical anguish all over the internet.

LOL yeah. But Sharon Carter/Emily VanCamp still deserved better.

Seriously why did everyone mock Sharon as a so-called beard and not Peggy? She kissed Steve too.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[Wynterwolf]

That was rollicking, and gorgeous, with a lot of fun moments, and it was also a hot mess, with some seriously problematic themes.  But! I am going to relish what I loved and enjoyed, and discard the rest.  That’s what entertainment is for!

The things I will keep and hold dear from this movie are Steve wielding Mjolnir, Stormbreaker, AND the Shield!!!, Bucky in a leather jacket (OMG), Cap!Sam!!, every moment Scott was on screen (he basically took over Thor’s role from IW for me) and how much Chris H is the perfect Thor, even with problematic material. 

Everything else goes in the bin because I’m not going to hurt my brain (any more than I already have!) trying to make it make any sense.  Time is seriously fucked.  I think the moral of this is that no one should ever try to film two massive blockbusters back to back ever again.  And the Russos maybe should have watched 12 Monkeys if they wanted to use time travel believably? But I suspect that some of this (and maybe even a lot of this), isn’t really their fault.  That’s going to be my headcanon.   

This feels like they decided to use time travel as a plot device specifically so they could twist the story to fit the desired endings they came up with for everyone.  Which I think was basically, Kill Everyone We Can.

I actually have a suspicion they even wanted to kill Steve too, but that probably didn’t play well in test audiences, and I am also betting ‘someone’ insisted that they had to reestablish Steve as a cis het icon before he was done, and since Sharon crashed and burned, the only other viable alternative was Peggy in the past, so yay it’s a good thing they were already using Time Travel!  (**sigh**  which was my previously stated worst nightmare for Peggy’s character, to be used as a prop in Steve’s story for the sole purpose of giving him what amounts to a superficial ‘happy ending’).

I mean, if they had previously done anything other than have Steve look mournfully a couple of times over four (or five?) movies at a picture of her, I maybe would be more forgiving of this. But they didn’t.  Sharon was the intention, but she very definitely didn’t stick, so this was at best, plan B and they probably only came up with it after they decided to do the wild and wacky time travel escapade.  (side note:  I find it kind of hilarious in a tragic sort of way that while they did this to Steve, they also gave us the first on screen gay reference in the MCU, and even did a press release about it, as if to say, “See??? We are cool and progressive; you can’t get mad at us for taking Steve back!”  But I got news, yo… Steve is still a bisexual icon :-D). 

But everyone that they could kill had to go.  Unfortunately for them they couldn’t kill Hulk, because they established in canon that he can’t be killed, and they couldn’t kill Thor because he was probably already incorporated in the next GOTG film, and they couldn’t kill Clint, because they need him for the D+ series… poor Tony and Natasha. 

So since Tony had to die, everything in the fight scene was designed for the sole purpose of getting to a point where Tony would have to use the gauntlet and sacrifice himself (and, as someone else pointed out, ignore available canon medical technology in the process). And of course HE was one of the few people that actually had something to lose, because there must be PAIN and SACRIFICE!  (which is the main reason I’m mostly ambivalent about his storyline, it, like too much else in this, just felt too contrived, but the kid was freakin’ adorable)

BUT, they still needed another body, and since there’s a Black Widow movie coming out, and they need Clint alive, they made Clint and Nat (people love their friendship, right?!?!?!!) travel to someplace they had no emotional resonance with so Nat could commit suicide since she obviously had nothing and no one and no other purpose other than to be the embodiment of a reverse MacGuffin.   And bonus, we get Sad!Clint!! (fridging at it’s finest) BECAUSE PEOPLE LOVE TO END EVERYTHING ON A SAD NOTE!!! TRAGEDY IS WHAT WE LIVE FOR! JUST LOOK AT ROMEO AND JULIET! THIS IS THE GOLD STANDARD EVERYONE STRIVES FOR IN STORYTELLING!!  PAAAIIIIIINNNNNNNN!!! 

Seriously though, we’ve become so enamored of watching fictional people suffer and die, it’s almost like the modern version of cheering for gladiators dying in the colosseum.  But this is okay, (right???), because no one actually dies, but… honestly, I think after a certain point, it still leaves an emotional stain.  We get so much of it now, and it’s so standard and expected, it’s become a shortcut to a cheap emotional hit (that is particularly hard on marginalized communities. See: Clexa fiasco from The 100, and more recently The Magicians finale, which also includes some truly ignorant and dangerous statements by the showrunners about suicide OMFG, and countless other examples…), it’s kind of like an addiction.  

But hey, for comic relief we can make Thor fat the whole movie, so we can laugh at him, because people gaining weight, particularly if it’s because they’re having trouble dealing with massive trauma and PTSD/depression is freakin hysterical, right??!?!?!!  I have a lot of mixed feeling about Thor’s storyline, damn you CH for being so good at being Thor!

But more on the suicide theme, what Steve did reminds me almost exactly of the plot from a Twilight Zone ep called Miniature, where the protag is an autistic man who eventually commits suicide by willing himself into a dollhouse in a museum where there’s a beautiful doll he idolizes and sees as alive and who he falls in love with, but it’s euphemistically wrapped up in a supernatural illusion of a ‘happy ending’ (which is why it pings so strongly for me with what they did with Steve).  So basically, the Russos chose to have Nat, Tony and Steve all commit various forms of suicide (and hell, even Nebula shot herself).  And for a good illustration of why that can be problematic as fuck, read some of the commentary on The Magician’s finale episode from people, particularly queer people, who live with suicidal ideation (Including the SyFy Channel article that they pulled yesterday, if you can find it… it’s screencapped on twitter).

I mean this is ‘entertainment’, but it’s also serious as shit.  Storytelling is powerful, especially on this kind of scale, and it often touches us in visceral, unconscious ways that we aren’t even aware of.  And creators, particularly those with multimillion dollar budgets have a responsibility to use their power thoughtfully, and with great care and consideration (no, I am not going to use the Spider-Man quote… I’m not!). 

I get that TPTB have an agenda, and the Russos were probably exhausted when they were making this, and there were a lot of fingers in the pie, but that’s no excuse.   And I really do need to stop thinking about this, because the more I do, the worse it gets.  Nearly everything in the (3 hours of) plotting was done to set up people killing themselves in the most gut-wrenching, grief-inducing way (literally in Nat and Tony’s case, figuratively in Steve’s).  Most everything else was just really cool window dressing.  Not really my idea of a satisfying ending.

Ugh, I really did mostly enjoy it as I was watching it, but it’s just one of those movies you don’t want to think too much about afterwards, because you’ll get a migraine. It wasn’t about making anything truly plausible or satisfying beyond the surface images; it was just about being fun in the moment and also being able to manipulate things to serve their ‘endgame’.  OH, I just now realized how appropriate that title is.  HA!  Well played, Russos!! Which again, appropriately, feels like a very ‘comic book’ thing to do, though in this case that is not exactly a compliment.

[calliope1975]

I forgot to give a special shout out to RDJ. I grew up with him as the weird friend/new wave characters from Weird Science, SNL, and Back to School. To the druggie in Less than Zero that I was too young to see. To the rom-com guy that I loved in Chances Are, Only You and my personal favorite, Heart and Souls. To an Oscar nom, and then to hard prison time.

If he didn't work in Iron Man, it's likely we wouldn't be here, so good on you, Robert, for getting your life together and making friends who would fight to give you a second chance. 

[Sakura12]

39 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

Captain Marvel just hasn’t worked for me. I know we get her response to the pager in the mid-credits scene of her own film, but she’s just…there from the beginning in this movie, and we don’t get a feeling for how the team is supposed to accept her, then she’s gone for the bulk of the move and returns in just less than Deus Ex Machina fashion. I think they struggled with how much help she should be and how powerful she needed to be.

-

They didn't know how powerful she should be since they filmed this movie before hers. Which also why they didn't show her too much, since we would get to know her more in her own movie. This movie showed her as plenty powerful, they even showed the worry in Thanos' face. when he headbutted her and she had no reaction. Scarlett Witch is another super powerful Avenger that is sidelined because as someone else mentioned a tag team with Scarlett Witch and Captain Marvel would've destroyed Thanos. 

I also thinking they are saving Captain Marvel so she can work with her team. This movie was the ending for the original Avengers as it should be. I'm interested in seeing her work with Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Wasp, Valkyrie and Spider-Man. Thor's going to be busy being a Guardian of the Galaxy. 

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, that was....that was actually really good. Was it perfect? Of course not, but I think it hit all the right beats and concluded a lot of stories while opening the door to new ones.

I'm not ashamed to say that I cried really hard at three points: Nat's death, Tony's death, and Steve passing on the Captain America shield to Sam while getting to see that Steve lived a happy life with Peggy. Regardless of the time travel inconsistencies at times, I thought that all of it stayed very true to the characters we've got the pleasure in knowing for the last decade. 

I don't think I could sit in the theatre again to watch for a little while because of how hard I know I'll cry for a second time once I really absorb every little thing that I might have missed on this first watch.

I agree that this was Natasha's best film since Winter Soldier. I loved the return of her friendship with Clint. That had been sorely underrepresented since The Avengers. So this film taking the time to showcase the two of them for a little while was important, especially now knowing about her ultimate fate. I was so sad but impressed with the back and forth between the two of them during the sacrifice. I figured Clint wouldn't die since I knew Natasha wouldn't allow him to sacrifice himself and not be reunited with his family, but they had me tense for a good few minutes. It was heartbreaking to even see them fight to sacrifice themselves. But they were right; heroes sometimes need to sacrifice themselves for the Greater Good, and I honestly didn't piece the Soul Stone sacrifice together, or remember about it, until that scene started. 

Thor got some humorous moments and Chris Hemsworth really nailed the funny and serious parts of his role. I do like that the events of the last few films really affected him and that he really did unravel. It's nice that even someone as powerful as Thor can't hold it together all of the time. And I like that they didn't magically fix him either. 

Cap wielding Mjolnir got the biggest cheer from my theatre, and for good reason...followed by, of course, Avengers Assemble. 

I think that Scott Lang being such an important part of this film was surprising in the best of ways. Paul Rudd really shined in his role. 

Tony's death was one I did expect, but one that hit hard, nonetheless. The fact that he did get to be around all of his loved ones (except his daughter) as he died was powerful. I am happy that he got to have a daughter and start a life with her, even if it was short-lived. I like the idea that this part of the Saga started and ended with Tony. That was something that really hit hard as the film ended for me. RDJ did an amazing job and honestly, I'm going to miss him the most in future films. 

Of course, there were things I wish were included in the film. More moments with the now unsnapped heroes, for example, but then the film would have been even longer. 

At least Steve got his happy ending. I do think that he put things into perspective after having to witness Tony's sacrifice. Tony got to lived a few years of a happy life. He got his wife and daughter. And I think Steve realized that it was his turn to be selfish and to simply settle down. Again, him settling down with Peggy doesn't quite fit in the timeline that we know, but honestly, for me, I'm not even too bothered by it because it was a powerful enough revelation. 

I like that the film, for me, didn't feel like it was three hours. It really moved faster than I thought. The beginning was a tad slow, but they really did need to set everything up. I probably have more to say but I'm honestly still processing,

[nilyank]

35 minutes ago, quazimodo said:

I thought during the conversation between Bruce and the Ancient one they concluded that as long as the stones were put back into the time line at the point they left there wouldn’t be any multiple/alternate timelines.

But thanks to our Time Avengers, Loki got hold of one of the stones and disappeared. That wasn't in the original timeline because Thor was able to take Loki back home. So there is already an alternate timeline.

Went to a 7am showing and didn't realize that it was 3 hours long until I went inside the theater. Time actually flew by as I was blubbering mess.

[Traveller519]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

They didn't know how powerful she should be since they filmed this movie before hers. Which also why they didn't show her too much, since we would get to know her more in her own movie. This movie showed her as plenty powerful, they even showed the worry in Thanos' face. when he headbutted her and she had no reaction. Scarlett Witch is another super powerful Avenger that is sidelined because as someone else mentioned a tag team with Scarlett Witch and Captain Marvel would've destroyed Thanos. 

I also thinking they are saving Captain Marvel so she can work with her team. This movie was the ending for the original Avengers as it should be. I'm interested in seeing her work with Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Wasp, Valkyrie and Spider-Man. Thor's going to be busy being a Guardian of the Galaxy. 

I completely agree with everything you've posted. I think there are bigger plans. And I really want to get on board with her, because there was a lot in Captain Marvel (the movie I really enjoyed). She just seemed to fit it a little too oddly with this movie, precisely for the reasons you mentioned.

I think her character would have worked just a bit better for me if there was some key that she had to beating Thanos beyond just being incredibly powerful and fast. I don't know what that would be, maybe something with Mar'vell's warp drive, or some inside knoweldge of the Galaxy. For what it's worth I did generally enjoy her in the opening attack on Thanos and the conference call.

[Sakura12]

This movie definitely had some issues, but that's what you get when you try to shove a bajillion characters and timelines into 1 three hour movie. Which they managed to make me not even notice the run time until I left the theater and was blinded by the sunlight. 

Still I loved this movie 3000. 

[AimingforYoko]

Everybody mentioned all the highlights, so I'll just say what I'm looking forward to after this:

Cap and Bucky, together again (new version).

(As)Guardians of the Galaxy

A very appreciative Clint training Kate Bishop.

A more mature Peter Parker (but not too mature) growing into his suit.

[VCRTracking]

You can quibble over the plot logistics and characterizations but Tony having a family and sacrificing himself felt right to me. As was seeing Steve as an old man.

[Lugal]

Like everyone said, a lot to unpack wit this one. Despite the runtime, it really doesn't feel overloaded (it feels like they probably cut a lot out)  Overall it works for me.

There was a lot to fit in with all the characters going back over 10 years, and some like Captain Marvel and probably Black Panther who had not even finished their own movies before this one was being shot, which is why they didn't feature in near as much.

As for our original crew, it was a good sendoff.  I like Thor as part of the Guardians of the Galaxy, although I'm curious to see how they work him in without taking over the movies.  It was a good way for Tony to go out, saving the Universe with "I am Iron man!"

Professor Hulk was not what I expected, but it worked, although I agree the phone pic scene went on a little too long.  When there is so much that could have been used, anything extraneous really stands out.

Clint going vigilante I can accept.  And with half of Earth disappearing, I can see why people had more on their minds than finding him.

Fat Thor was funny, but when we saw how much he lost, I can see him shutting in and essentially giving up.  His scene was Frigga was perfect, the future has not been kind indeed.

I was spoiled about Natasha's ending so it was a little easier to take, but it felt weird she was not there for the final battle.  I assume that the Black Widow movie will be a prequel, although there's enough timey-wimey, magical and just plain sciency stuff in the MCU that if they want they could find a way to bring her back.

Tony got to have his family life and save the universe, and it won't be the same without RDJ.  It's weird I didn't get teary about this, because it felt like a good conclusion of Tony's story, although bittersweet.

Steve finally got his dance with Peggy.  This felt right, and everyone kept saying and speculating he would die, it was too obvious a choice (and we'll assume that Steve has to keep quiet for the next seventy years).  There's enough loopholes open that Steve could come back in some form.  And I'll assume he showed up after the events of the Agent Carter Series.  Speaking of which it was really cool to see Jarvis again.

As for Non-Avengers, Scott, Rocket, and Nebula were the MVP's here, which is really cool.  Karen Gillan in particular get a shoutout.

The parts I really loved: I cheered when Steve picked up the Hammer and "Avengers Assemble" and the battle scene allowed pretty much everyone a chance to shine and they had a literal passing the gauntlet scene with the new characters.  Damn near every scene with Rocket was worth the ticket price alone.  And the lady-Avenger team up,I would totally watch that movie.

The Timeline stuff.  It actually made sense to me, but then maybe I'm just weird.  Part of me thinks they left it a little messy so they can work in the X-men and the FF in upcoming movies.  I liked the idea that your future is your future, even if it's in the past.  I'm curious about what happened to Mjolnir in that time.  Will it come to Thor in the past all the way from Earth if Thor calls?  I assume this opens up their loophole for the Loki series.  The other thing is how this Gamora will interact with the Guardians.

And some choice quotes:

Rocket: "You're only a genius on Earth, Stark."

Rocket, to Thor: "You look like melted ice cream."

--

Gamora: "This one?"

Nebula: "Either him or a tree."

--

Thanos: "I don't even know who you are."

Wanda: "You will."

--

Frigga: "Eat a salad!"

[madhacker]

I just have one question about the movie: if 5 years have gone by shouldn't Ned (Peter's best friend) have graduated and been in college now? Did I miss something?

[raven]

2 minutes ago, madhacker said:

Did I miss something?

He was probably dusted so popped back into existence the same age he was when he was dusted.

That's how I took the reversal - it's five years later, but the person who was dusted essentially leap frogs over those years if they were dusted and returned.  Everyone else is five years older.

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, madhacker said:

I just have one question about the movie: if 5 years have gone by shouldn't Ned (Peter's best friend) have graduated and been in college now? Did I miss something?

He probably was brought back with Hulk's snap.

Tony insisted with Hulk to wish everyone back but not change anything for the last five years (so Morgan doesn't get snapped out of existence). When Peter came back, he told Tony that it was literally moments after Thanos snapped them away.

[madhacker]

Well most likely they'll explain Ned and MJ in Far from home

I just rewatched the teaser for that movie and Peter's wanting a break makes so much more sense now after all the stuff he went through and the fact he lost his mentor/father figure

[Dee]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

They didn't know how powerful she should be since they filmed this movie before hers. Which also why they didn't show her too much, since we would get to know her more in her own movie. This movie showed her as plenty powerful, they even showed the worry in Thanos' face. when he headbutted her and she had no reaction. Scarlett Witch is another super powerful Avenger that is sidelined because as someone else mentioned a tag team with Scarlett Witch and Captain Marvel would've destroyed Thanos.

Vision is/was so powerful he had to be conveniently sidelined during most of the Civil War battle but nobody worries about him being too strong.

[Sakura12]

I think that shows that they always have to find ways to sideline their more powerful Avengers. Otherwise why would they need Tony and Steve. Carol, Vision and Scarlet Witch could take care of everything without them. 

I liked that they showed how powerful Captain Marvel was by Thanos needing to take out the power stone to hit her. She was beating him and he knew it. 

[VCRTracking]

[Guest]

3 hours ago, revbfc said:

-How awkward was the conversation between Cap & Red Skull when he returned the Soul Stone?

Or Cap trying to turn the reality stone back into aether and get it back into Jane. 

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

But thanks to our Time Avengers, Loki got hold of one of the stones and disappeared. That wasn't in the original timeline because Thor was able to take Loki back home. So there is already an alternate timeline.

There would also be alternate timelines from when Thor took his hammer and from  Thanos and his followers disappearing from the past. 

[Wishing Well]

I got off a 12 hour flight from Seattle to Beijing on a four hour flight delay and headed straight to the Cinema.  

Holy balls.

So much to unpack, but the part that gave me chills was when Thanos was so terrified of Wanda straight up destroying him that he ordered HIS troops to be fired on, just hoping that it would take her out.

“You took everything from me”

”I don’t even know you!” 😂 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

33 minutes ago, Dee said:

Vision is/was so powerful he had to be conveniently sidelined during most of the Civil War battle but nobody worries about him being too strong.

Of course, with Carol we get some stupid "controversy" because she's wearing lipstick. Because that's logical.

[VCRTracking]

1 minute ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Of course, with Carol we get some stupid "controversy" because she's wearing lipstick. Because that's logical.

Luckily the short hair later on balances that out!

[Jazzy24]

Let me start off saying that this is a GREAT movie and did awesome with many characters. The Russos are my favorite MCU and in my top 5 Directors. They do great with each character in their movies. This is probably Marvel’s greatest movie. 

I love the focus of the original 6, my loves. RDJ, Evens, Scarlett, Ruffalo, Renner and Hemsworth did AMAZING. They and the rest of the cast had me experiencing every human emotion possible. I love them. 

But Avengers Endgame is my least favorite Avengers movie and I didn’t love it. I didn’t love it because I’m not good with goodbyes and to say goodbye to characters I have loved for years is never something I can except. I don’t like anyone’s ending in this movie except Hawkeyes’. I didn’t care for Banner and Hulk’s smash up I wanted Banner. I didn’t like Thor being this drunken sad guy(though he had every reason) I HATED Natasha dying(~my heart~)I didn’t like Tony dying and didn’t like Steve going back to the past. 

I Loved loved loved the final battle. To see Captain weird Mjolnir was PERFECT!!! Him saying “Avengers Assemble” was INSANE!!! It was awesome to see my characters come together and kick butt. Someone said that if Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel tag team Thanos would be fecked and they were right, Wanda and Carol facing off against Thanos was everything. I loved the little we got of Carol in the movie. This battle is my favorite in movie history. Nat should have been there. I’m glad Gamora is back. 

The first Avengers is still my favorite, but this was a great movie just not my fav and something I doubt I will rewatch anytime soon(except for that awesome battle)Again, everyone did a great job and I’m grateful to the actors that has given me some of Marvel’s finest characters brought to life. 

Im excited for seeing characters like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Dr. Strange, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, The FF and X-Men in the future.  I’m just going to not think about the ending to this movie. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jazzy24

[anna0852]

Okay, now I've seen it twice and I have more thoughts:

I had a straight-up girl-gasm at 'She has help'. Marvel gets all my money for that alone. And it broke my heart that

Spoiler

Nat

wasn't at the head of the pack.

I wonder what

Spoiler

Scarlett Johanssons

reaction was to finding out everyone got to be in the final battle except her.

Did Clint get a longer sentence than Scott? He was still wearing his house arrest monitor at the beginning when Scott's term had clearly ended.

Did Natalie Portman actually shoot more scenes or did they just grab unused footage from Dark World?

Did anyone see Kraglin or any Ravagers in the final battle? Sean Gunn was credited for Kraglin but I didn't see him

Did we see Korg in the final battle? There was stunt-double for him in the credits list.

Not a fan of Carol's new hair. I liked the longer waves but that's just me.

Loved 'on your left' and nearly leapt out of my seat at what followed. Ditto for 'before Morgan uses it to go sledding'. And 'I knew it'. 

Seems fitting that the first time we saw Nat and Hawkeye interact they were beating each other up as Nat tried to save him and that's how it ends for them as well. 

Did Maggie and Paxton (Cassie's mom/stepdad) survive the Snap? She's still living in their house. I'd like to know what happened there, along with the wombats.

Do you think Cobie, Marissa, Michelle and SLJ had to paid to show up for that last scene or was it a matter of 'please let me be in it, I'll pay *you guys*'?

So glad to see Valkyrie again. She and Thor really traded places from Ragnarok didn't they? And Hulk called her 'Angry Girl!'

The elevator scene was wonderful as was seeing Pierce again. So many threads being tied together!

Got tired of shlubby Thor very quickly. I never thought I'd be wanting Hemsworth to put his shirt back on but apparently that point does exisit. And that was a nasty beard. Did anyone else think 'Thor Drogo' after his power up or just me? 

Would have liked a little more Hope/Wasp but I'll take what I can get.

Those end credits were gorgous. I just love how the orginal six were essentially autographing a decade of work. That was the point were I nearly cried.

Edited April 27, 2019 by anna0852

[Anduin]

1 minute ago, anna0852 said:

Did Natalie Portman actually shoot more scenes or did they just grab unused footage from Dark World?

The second, I suspect. She seems pretty over the MCU.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if Carol started absorbing all the infinity stones making her even stronger and that's what made Thanos need to take out one of the stones to stop her. 

[VCRTracking]

4 minutes ago, Anduin said:

The second, I suspect. She seems pretty over the MCU.

Well they did ask her to record new audio! EW.com:
 

Quote

Sequences of Jane Foster in Asgard that you see in Endgame are all leftover from The Dark World. But Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo did need something new from the actress.

Anthony explained: “All she did new for this movie was —”

“The voice,” Joe finished.

“A little bit of voice-over when she’s talking in the distance, that’s it,” Anthony added.

Jane is thanking some Asgardians for taking care of her, and it’s not easy to hear the new audio.

Edited April 27, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Anduin]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

Well they did ask her to record new audio. EW.com:
 

I just got done reading that, then came here to post it. Shows what I know. 🙂

[Sakura12]

My favorite surprise cameo was seeing Jarvis from Agent Carter. 

[VCRTracking]

Just now, Sakura12 said:

My favorite surprise cameo was seeing Jarvis from Agent Carter. 

Me too! I love Peggy and Jarvis' friendship.

[TigerLynx]

The movie was okay.  I think there are just to many characters to really do everyone justice. 

I liked getting confirmation that Cap can wield Thor's hammer and ax.  That continuity goes back to the first Avengers movie.

I liked Cap choosing to have a life and be with Peggy.  Especially since one of my major annoyances with these stories is that people screwing around with things they shouldn't is the reason we end up needing a Captain America in the first place.

Thanos still doesn't make sense to me.  I guess I'll have to take a page out of Alfred's book, and just conclude some men just want to watch the world/universe burn.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Anduin said:

The second, I suspect. She seems pretty over the MCU.

9 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I just got done reading that, then came here to post it. Shows what I know. 🙂

 The day after Portman was at the Endgame premiere it was announced that she is narrating a nature documentary that she going to be on Disney+.  That probably played a part in getting her to come back for Endgame. 

[Wynterwolf]

At least I'm not the only one that thought Cap's ending made no sense after I started thinking about it...

Quote

It doesn’t fit at all for Cap as a human being, and it doesn’t fit with the time travel rules, and it really just doesn’t seem all that well thought out, opting for emotional fan service at the expense of any kind of narrative coherence. They should have just killed off “Captain America” in the final battle in “Avengers: Endgame” instead.

[Jazzy24]

I’m not gay but Carol’s whole look in Endgame had me crushing😍. She looked Boss!!! She also looked gorgeous at Tony’s funeral 😞 And I liked her haircut, tho I do prefer longer hair but Larson rocked that look. It was the only physical transformation I liked in this movie. 

[VCRTracking]

2 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

At least I'm not the only one that thought Cap's ending made no sense after I started thinking about it...

I'm of the opinion, Cap knew he was creating an alternate reality and that he didn't just stay back in the past to marry Peggy but to help that timeline's Bucky and undo his Winter Soldier programming. Of course now there's a second Cap still in the ice. When he's unfrozen in the 21st century old Steve would tell his younger self to wait a few years until the tech is right for him to go back and be with Peggy creating another alternate timeline and so on and so on.

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm of the opinion, Cap knew he was creating an alternate reality and that he didn't just stay back in the past to marry Peggy but to help that timeline's Bucky and undo his Winter Soldier programming.

But then, OldSteve wouldn't have shown up on the bench when he did, to give the shield to Sam, as if he had lived through the current time line from the '40s with Peggy.  He would nave been in a different timeline than everyone else. With a different Peggy and different Bucky.

I get that they are trying to imply that Steve was Peggy's husband all along (though there are myriad problems with that idea too), and that it's a time loop, but there are already two other branches that were created that they couldn't fix, and Steve left the current timeline after those happened, so ... 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

At least I'm not the only one that thought Cap's ending made no sense after I started thinking about it...

That article perfectly summed up my problems with the ending. They wanted to tell a time travel story where changing the past didn’t change the present and simultaneously have one character be changed in the past. It just doesn’t work for me on any level. 

My other big problem is the 5 year time jump. Half the population is 5 years older than they other half. There is no way that is going to be adequately addressed in the future. It is a logistical nightmare when you consider the ramifications. 

[phalange]

That was a rollercoaster of emotions, wow. 

Scott remains the most relatable character, wanting a sandwich even in the middle of a crisis. I love that it was a mouse who accidentally brought him back from the quantum realm. There were so many hilarious scenes, probably to make up for all the pain at the end: Rocket being called a Build-a-Bear; "I get e-mails from a raccoon."; Bruce/Hulk taking selfies with his fans; Rocket and Thor sneaking past Loki in Asguard; "It was either him or a tree."; Scott losing all the ingredients in his taco; and of course, "It's America's ass!" 

I didn't expect Tony to have a daughter. I figured they weren't going to time-travel her out of existence, but it was still so heartbreaking seeing Tony's final message for Morgan and Pepper. "Love you 3,000." Ouch. 

I genuinely did not expect Natasha to die, so that one was hard. Nat and Clint battling it out over which one got to sacrifice themselves was really well-done, but still, damn. I thought that when the camera was panning over everyone at Tony's funeral that Natasha would be shown, or that somehow Steve would bring her back when he time traveled at the very end. I'm hoping there's still a way to free her and Gamora, and I will remain in denial until shown otherwise. Plus, if she was really gone, you'd think she'd get a send-off along with Tony. 

The big battle against Thanos was awesome. I got chills when the portals started opening up and T'Challa, Okoye, and Shuri stepped out with the Wakandan warriors behind them. Then everyone just started showing up and Thanos got this "Oh, shit" look on his face. Loved Carol just decimating his ship and the game of keep-away with the gauntlet that ended with Carol in possession while all the female superheros supported her. And I appreciated the brief but hilarious tension breaking with La Cucaracha playing and Hope flying Scott to the van. 

Add me to the list of people who were not of fan of Steve's ending. Not the getting old part--I thought that was perfectly fitting, as was him handing over the shield to Falcon. I just didn't care for his whole thing with Peggy, because it invalidates the ending of Agent Carter, which I loved, and also because it was very predictable. I liked him seeing her in 1970, and I was hoping it would be left at that. So I'm just gonna be over here, ignoring the last 30 seconds. 

Loved the ending credits, with the the supporting cast first, then showing the original Avengers, with the actors' signatures. Also, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet but is reading this thread for spoilers, there are no scenes during or after the credits; you're free to run to the bathroom. 😉

Anyway, this was a fantastic experience and everyone in my theater applauded at the end. I have a free pass I haven't used, but I can only use it after a movie's been out for two weeks, so I'll be seeing it again then. Shame I don't have any Pim Particles to time travel to the future... 

[nilyank]

OldSteve had Pym's magic particles to go back in time to put back the stones. He most likely knew before he left that he was going back to Peggy hence why he volunteer to return all the stones. He probably kept enough of the stuff to travel back in his time (into the future that is now his past) to give Sam his shield. 

[Wynterwolf]

Here's another one that explains the various problems even better.  But this is also why I feel like the Peggy ending wasn't added until late (maybe after test screenings), because it just isn't integrated well into the movie, or even the 10 year narrative as a whole.

8 minutes ago, nilyank said:

He probably kept enough of the stuff to travel back in his time

Through what mechanism though?  They need that staging area thing to time travel.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Wynterwolf

[TigerLynx]

I can't get to upset about Steve going back to Peggy because the whole travel back in time to change what we want to is a cheat to begin with.  If they had wanted to do something really edgy, they wouldn't have undone everything Thanos did.  They would have had to deal with the current reality.  The beginning where they track down Thanos and Thor just chops his head off was boring to me.  Of course, on the flip side, I hate when they make characters as invincible as Thanos.

I did find everyone sneaking around trying not to run into their past selves, Lokey, etc., funny.

[AimingforYoko]

I have yet to see any love for the MVP of Endgame: The rat who let Scott out of the quantum realm. There needs to be a worldwide day of remembrance for that rat.