S04.E09: Elseworlds Part III (2018.12.11)

[BeautifulFlower]

I liked it.

Some problems though

1. What was the point of Caitlin in this episode? She was just there and didn't use any powers. She contributed nothing. Does somebody bts like Danielle or something?

2. Sigh. Neither Diggle or Jonzz served a purpose either. Sadly, I feel they were only in it for diversity points

 

3. Did Kara have a story? 

4. I'm not a fan of Barry being all non-chalant about dying. Did Iris and his daughter cross his mind? No goodbye?

With those said, it's obvious Olliver made a deal to sacrifice himself.

 

I was shocked to see a teaser for Crisis on Infinite Earths at the end

[scarynikki12]

Any awkwardness could be on purpose. Some lingering effects from last year’s crossover. 

[Brinny]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Barry still hasn't returned. He disappeared in 2024 and 25 years have passed and he still hasn't returned. Hence the reason Nora went back to the past to prevent it from happening. Though now we know it won't happen this season. Maybe the show having the Crisis on Infinite Earths next year instead of 2024 is Nora's fuck up. Instead of preventing it, she will cause it to happen five years sooner!

If that's so, she'll erase herself out of existence, won't she? Do we have confirmation on how old Nora is? We know she's too young to remember Barry before he disappears, so she would have been born somewhere in between 2021-2024, right? Probably not earlier than that (and with 2024 being admittedly unlikely), unless they're saying that Nora is closer to 30. In which case, Barry and Iris better get on it. 

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, Brinny said:

If that's so, she'll erase herself out of existence, won't she?

Maybe that’s the point?  Weren’t Barry and Iris actually supposed to have twins?

[Brinny]

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Maybe that’s the point?  Weren’t Barry and Iris actually supposed to have twins?

Yes, in the comics. And they've hinted at it in the show. However, I'm holding out hope that they keep Nora (not, like, on the show as a regular, full-time cast member or anything, but, you know, to pop on by whenever they need her), because A) I think that JPK is an example of incredible casting; and B) I never want to accept that this iteration of Barry and Iris will name their children Dawn and Don. 

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

1. What was the point of Caitlin in this episode? She was just there and didn't use any powers. She contributed nothing. Does somebody bts like Danielle or something?

 

I forgot to address this in my first post, but what's the point of Caitlin EVER? 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Brinny

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, Brinny said:

B) I never want to accept that this iteration of Barry and Iris will name their children Dawn and Don. 

Lol, that’s fair. 😄

JPK could play one of the twins though, even if she does change things.

[Trini]

We were robbed of Evil!Iris. Still ridiculous that Candice wasn't in this episode.

[Terrafamilia]

Yet again, Arkham Asylum is shown to be the worst run mental institution in the multiverse. Leave cryo-guns and esoteric hallucinogens lying around in the basement instead of a secure off-site facility, sure, no problem. I even bet the peeling paint is loaded with lead.

[Perfect Xero]

11 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Nothing, because they only slowed it down for themselves relative to everyone else.  For everyone else, time was still moving at normal speed. That's how the Theory of Relativity works, and it's also how Flashtime (which is apparently what they were going for) works.

Furthermore, they really weren't even traveling nearly fast enough to slow down time.  Mach 7 is a snail's pace compared to the speed that is really necessary to slow down time.  To slow down time, Barry and Kara would have to be traveling at close to the speed of light..

Sure, but they seemed to think it would help, and I can't see how it was supposed to. Normally when a show does bad science they at least use that bad science in a way that further's their plot. Here they just showed it not helping their plan since it was shown freezing Clark too.

Have Brainy give Oliver and/or Clark a gizmo that makes them immune to the slow down and the plan make sense from that perspective, instead we just had Barry and Kara killing themselves for no gain that I could see.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Maybe that’s the point?  Weren’t Barry and Iris actually supposed to have twins?

"We`re gonna need more diapers" -Barry, after he got out of the speed force. I bet that, in all the changing of timelines, Nora gets a twin brother, or she had one originally, and he was erased, and now will come back?

[AudienceofOne]

Hey, did you know that Oliver has darkness in him?

Apparently, Oliver has darkness in him. 

Also, this episode of Supergirl - a show defined by the fact that Kara is a capable superhero who doesn't need Superman to save her - was about how Kara needed Superman to save her.

Awesome, guys. SUPER!awesome. 

Also, do you think the writers actually poured through 100 years of mythology just to find the dumbest thing ever included in a superman story?

Slow the Earth's rotation? Really? That was stupid the first time.

[sjsyed]

Full disclosure - Supergirl is the show I like least in the Beeboverse (do you guys use that term here?  It’s all over Reddit, and I find it hilarious.  But if you don’t use it, replace it with Arrowverse.).   So I wasn’t surprised when I discovered that I found the Supergirl contribution the weakest.  (Maybe because the other two eps were so incredibly meta and I throughly enjoyed that.)

The Kara/Alex dynamic is one of the few things that I like about the show, but Alex’s behavior made NO SENSE.  I could have justified it if we were on Earth-38.  Maybe Alex would have felt that something was... wrong about imprisoning Supergirl, since on that Earth they’re sisters and maybe Alex still had a remnant of her “true self.”  But on Earth-1, Alex has no idea who Kara is.  So why would she believe Kara so quickly?  I know, I know - Kara magically convinced her by telling that story about when Alex was a child.  But first, why would they necessarily have the same experiences as children?  Alex-1 and Alex-38 are *different people*.  We’ve seen how drastically different Barry & Co are on different Earths.  And Deegan scrambled everyone’s life anyway to boot.  Second, even if Alex had that experience, I don’t understand why that would have convinced her.  In a world that has Superman, it’s pretty likely other powers exist, like telepathy and mind-control.  Being in the military (or something close to it) as Alex was, didn’t she consider that a possibility?  Because if she didn’t, that really just shows how incompetent this Alex is at her job.  Someone who is that easy to manipulate shouldn’t have control over any sensitive information - the first charismatic villain with a touching story to tell would apparently be able to convince Alex of anything.

I am so, so TIRED of everyone ragging on Oliver.  To hear them talk, he’s one step removed from Manchester Black.  AND HE’S NOT.  Oliver has this tendency to think the worst about himself.  I think he still sees himself as the Oliver from season 1 (or even the Oliver from the 5 lost years), where he had no problem torturing and murdering people he felt “deserved” it.  (Do any of you remember when Oliver skinned someone alive during the lost years?  Yeesh.). But he’s not that guy anymore, and he hasn’t been for a long time.  The only person who seems to see that is Barry - everyone else apparently sees him as a psycho.  Oliver’s soul is not “filled with darkness”.  Of course it’s not.  How could he be the hero HE SO OBVIOUSLY IS if it were?  Why would he have sacrificed himself to the FBI to save everyone else if that were true?  Why would he have cared about the treatment of prisoners at Slabside?  Why would he willingly subject himself to the authority of the SCPD?  Ugh.

I also think it’s clear he made some kind of deal sacrificing himself to save Barry and Kara.  (Yet another example of how his soul is perfectly fine, and probably in better shape than mine.)  To be honest, if he doesn’t tell Felicity about whatever bargain he made, I’m fine with it.  In fact, it’s probably better that he doesn’t say anything.  What could Felicity do about it?  All it’s going to do is make her sad about the future.  If Oliver’s going to die, he’s going to die whether Felicity knows or not.  Why burden her with knowledge?  Let her be happy for as long as she can.  (I’m also ok with his decision not to tell her about the deal with the FBI.  Obviously she would have tried to talk him out of it.  But there was really no other way to save everyone.  So instead of having a long, drawn-out argument that wouldn’t change anything and just make Felicity madder and sadder, he presented her with a fait accompli.)

The show also, once again, completely wasted J’onn.  He’s the freaking Martian Manhunter.  He’s pretty powerful - easily on the level of Supergirl and Superman.  (In the JLA cartoon, he’s the one that created the Justice League because he foresaw something terrible coming, and he wanted the Earth to be prepared.)  But apparently no one can be as powerful as Supergirl (even Superman, which is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard), so the show completely nerds MM, and relegates him to randomly saving 3 civilians (from fire, ironically enough).  And I’m not saying those 3 civilians shouldn’t have been saved, but MM should have been able to save them and hundreds more.

I was also disappointed that Calista Flockhart didn’t at least make a cameo.  She was by far my favorite character.  James Olsen is a poor, poor replacement for her as the head of Catco.

I’ve just realized that at this point, no one’s probably reading this anymore.  It became a little longer than I intended.  That’s ok.  I needed to get it all off my chest anyway, even if I’m just talking to myself.  (Since I am talking to myself, I want to remind myself to buy soap - we’re almost out.)

[marketdoctor]

Quote

I was also disappointed that Calista Flockhart didn’t at least make a cameo.

I would have enjoyed this as well; I also want to see her show up as Ally McBeal in the next crossover, since that had to have happened in one of the Infinite Earths.  (Though that might distract from the "Crisis".)  I don't dislike James Olsen; I just want to hear what she's been up to outside the Flarrowverse.  (Though Beeboverse is a great term as well.)

I'm also kind of curious as to how far/how able they are to send messages across the multiverse.  Some people seem more comfortable with transdimensional travel than others.  (Maybe Rick Sanchez will show up at some point?)

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, sjsyed said:

The Kara/Alex dynamic is one of the few things that I like about the show, but Alex’s behavior made NO SENSE.  I could have justified it if we were on Earth-38.  Maybe Alex would have felt that something was... wrong about imprisoning Supergirl, since on that Earth they’re sisters and maybe Alex still had a remnant of her “true self.”  But on Earth-1, Alex has no idea who Kara is.  So why would she believe Kara so quickly?  I know, I know - Kara magically convinced her by telling that story about when Alex was a child.  But first, why would they necessarily have the same experiences as children?  Alex-1 and Alex-38 are *different people*.  We’ve seen how drastically different Barry & Co are on different Earths.  And Deegan scrambled everyone’s life anyway to boot.  Second, even if Alex had that experience, I don’t understand why that would have convinced her.  In a world that has Superman, it’s pretty likely other powers exist, like telepathy and mind-control.  Being in the military (or something close to it) as Alex was, didn’t she consider that a possibility?  Because if she didn’t, that really just shows how incompetent this Alex is at her job.  Someone who is that easy to manipulate shouldn’t have control over any sensitive information - the first charismatic villain with a touching story to tell would apparently be able to convince Alex of anything.

It's because there is no E1 Alex. The Alex in this episode was created by the Book of the Rewritten Destinies. You can tell because Alex wasn't with Brainy, Superman, Lois, J'onn, or Supergirl at the very end when they were going back to E38. Like James, Alex was merely created for Kara, since Kara was an abnormality in the rewritten reality. She wasn't technically supposed to be there so reality had to write her into it, and thus wrote Alex and James into the reality as well. So I guess Kara assumed that, with Alex not actually being there, that the Book would have just taken whatever Alex backstory that Kara had? That's the only explanation I have. I did question why this reality Alex had the same childhood memories of real Alex, but it was likely more plot contrivance than the writers thinking things through (much like how the entire crossover talked about Oliver's darkness when he's long outgrew that part of himself).

Also, something that annoyed me was Oliver calling Barry and Kara heroes at the end but nobody extending the same courtesy to him. Oliver saved the damn world here! He deserves credit for being a goddamn hero! 

[Trini]

37 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's because there is no E1 Alex. The Alex in this episode was created by the Book of the Rewritten Destinies. You can tell because Alex wasn't with Brainy, Superman, Lois, J'onn, or Supergirl at the very end when they were going back to E38. Like James, Alex was merely created for Kara, since Kara was an abnormality in the rewritten reality. She wasn't technically supposed to be there so reality had to write her into it, and thus wrote Alex and James into the reality as well. So I guess Kara assumed that, with Alex not actually being there, that the Book would have just taken whatever Alex backstory that Kara had? That's the only explanation I have. I did question why this reality Alex had the same childhood memories of real Alex, but it was likely more plot contrivance than the writers thinking things through (much like how the entire crossover talked about Oliver's darkness when he's long outgrew that part of himself).

No, I think there are an Earth-1 Alex and James. And yeah it was plot contrivance, but they wouldn't be there if they didn't already exist in that universe. E-1 Alex and James wouldn't be with the others going back to Earth-38 anyway.

[Maelstrom]

Finally caught up on the last episode of this crossover last night, and I thought it was fun. Nothing spectacularly world-shaking, but fun. It felt strangely at odds with itself - they tried for something big and epic yet it was so rushed and overly-packed with extraneous elements *coughBatgirlcough* that by the end I was left with kind of a "well, that happened" feeling.

For the record, I don't watch Flash or Arrow, only Legends and Supergirl.

The Good:

• Tyler Hoechlin/Superman (he continues to be far more interesting and likable than Kara, sadly, and could totally carry a Superman show)
• Seeing the Kent farm as the Smallville theme played in the background (I'll confess it gave me the warm fuzzies. And, combined with the ads for Charmed and Roswell, made me wonder if it's somehow 2001 again and no one told me)
• Barry and Oliver snarking at each other (I don't know how in or out of character it was, but GG and SA clearly enjoy working with each other and have good comedic timing together. If Oliver was always this much fun then maybe I'd consider watching Arrow)

The Bad

• Batwoman and Gotham in general (I'm ready to declare a moratorium on all things Gotham and bat-related)
• J'onn showing up during the big fight just to wave and say, "Hi! I continue to exist!"
• A visit to the criminal underbelly of Central City without even a throwaway line about Mick Rory and Leonard Snart?
• Everyone being so down on Oliver. Again, I don't watch Arrow, but why so mean to Ollie? He has such pretty pretty eyes, don't be mean to him! And from what little I know of Flash, Barry's screwed up time/reality plenty of times, yet no one mentioned that

The Ugly

• Evil Dr. McMullet's choice of hairstyles
• Tom Cavanaugh's accent. Was it supposed to be French? Irish? Russian? Honestly, Flash viewers, I couldn't tell. Also: whhyyyyyy???

I was very disappointed when I initially heard that the Legends of Tomorrow would be left out, as they're my favorite Beeboverse show, and I didn't actually think this crossover would hold my interest. But it was fun and the cast clearly had a good time. Now back to watching the Legends of Tomorrow turn into cats and singing puppets.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Maelstrom

[AudienceofOne]

6 hours ago, sjsyed said:

I am so, so TIRED of everyone ragging on Oliver.  To hear them talk, he’s one step removed from Manchester Black.  AND HE’S NOT.  Oliver has this tendency to think the worst about himself.  I think he still sees himself as the Oliver from season 1 (or even the Oliver from the 5 lost years), where he had no problem torturing and murdering people he felt “deserved” it.  (Do any of you remember when Oliver skinned someone alive during the lost years?  Yeesh.). But he’s not that guy anymore, and he hasn’t been for a long time.  The only person who seems to see that is Barry - everyone else apparently sees him as a psycho.  Oliver’s soul is not “filled with darkness”.  Of course it’s not.  How could he be the hero HE SO OBVIOUSLY IS if it were?  

I was a bit chastened by the Mod warning and so didn't bring this up but it annoyed me no end across all three parts. Not only does everyone rag on Oliver but they constantly compare Barry/Iris to Oliver/Felicity with Barry/Iris being the superior relationship too. 

[Trini]

35 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Everyone being so down on Oliver. Again, I don't watch Arrow, but why so mean to Ollie? He has such pretty pretty eyes, don't be mean to him! And from what little I know of Flash, Barry's screwed up time/reality plenty of times, yet no one mentioned that

They did; at least twice in the Flash episode.

And I imagine that all the shows reminding us of Oliver's darkness is to set up his 15th redemption(?) arc, where he proves everyone wrong.

[Maelstrom]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

They did; at least twice in the Flash episode.

And I imagine that all the shows reminding us of Oliver's darkness is to set up his 15th redemption(?) arc, where he proves everyone wrong.

Ah, I must have missed that, thanks for letting me know!

[cambridgeguy]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:37 PM, Brinny said:

What was the point of Caitlin in this episode?

She was there to get beat up Oliver and save the cost of paying someone else to have speaking lines, so there's that.  Why wasn't it evil Iris or evil Felicity instead?  Because we saw Barry and Oliver have their heart to hearts with them in previous episodes, AND Kara got her turn to convince (not really) evil Alex they were sisters.  So it would have been redundant to replay that beat.  If evil Iris/Felicity had been there just to get beat up by Oliver in the elevator, well, I don't think that would have gone over so well.  No way Oliver lays the beatdown on any version of Felicity, and I don't think Barry would have been quite so happy if he saw Iris slump to the floor after Oliver knocked her around.  That's not to say Iris or Felicity couldn't have fit in elsewhere, but they could not have taken Caitlin's role.

One of these days the crossover will need to be set on Earth-38 or Kara will always feel like a guest star.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I’ve just realized that at this point, no one’s probably reading this anymore.  It became a little longer than I intended.  That’s ok.  I needed to get it all off my chest anyway, even if I’m just talking to myself.  (Since I am talking to myself, I want to remind myself to buy soap - we’re almost out.)

I didn't agree with everything (Oliver should have talked to Felicity before making the FBI deal. They had other options) but I read it all.  Long posts are not scary. :D

[quarks]

9 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

• Tom Cavanaugh's accent. Was it supposed to be French? Irish? Russian? Honestly, Flash viewers, I couldn't tell. Also: whhyyyyyy???

 

Apparently Quebecois, though I think that's impossible to guess if you've ever met anyone from Quebec.  

Why, apparently, is "Flash promised that if Cavanaugh promised to stay on the show, he could play a variety of characters, some with accents." I know that doesn't explain the Quebec part, but that's all I got.

[Trini]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:37 PM, Brinny said:

What was the point of Caitlin in this episode?

I couldn't tell you, because all the stuff she did could have been done by almost any other character. If they had made use of Killer Frost's ice powers, that would be something, but they didn't.

 

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

She was there to get beat up Oliver and save the cost of paying someone else to have speaking lines, so there's that.  Why wasn't it evil Iris or evil Felicity instead?  Because we saw Barry and Oliver have their heart to hearts with them in previous episodes, AND Kara got her turn to convince (not really) evil Alex they were sisters.  So it would have been redundant to replay that beat.  If evil Iris/Felicity had been there just to get beat up by Oliver in the elevator, well, I don't think that would have gone over so well.  No way Oliver lays the beatdown on any version of Felicity, and I don't think Barry would have been quite so happy if he saw Iris slump to the floor after Oliver knocked her around.  That's not to say Iris or Felicity couldn't have fit in elsewhere, but they could not have taken Caitlin's role.

I think Caitlin and Diggle still would have been beat up in the elevator, even with them included. Iris and Felicity could have had other parts. Maybe Iris could have been working with Cisco, or an officer(?) at Evil Star Labs. Same for Felicity. I don't think they would have had to replay the heart-to-hearts in this one; not necessary. At the very least, they could have been included in the closing scenes with Oliver and Barry at the bar. (And Oliver and Barry could still have had their one-on-one talk.)

[Maelstrom]

46 minutes ago, quarks said:

Apparently Quebecois, though I think that's impossible to guess if you've ever met anyone from Quebec.  

Why, apparently, is "Flash promised that if Cavanaugh promised to stay on the show, he could play a variety of characters, some with accents." I know that doesn't explain the Quebec part, but that's all I got.

Thanks quarks! I truly had no clue what he was going for... just that he didn’t get there.

[Perfect Xero]

Given that this was, nominally, the Supergirl episode of the crossover I wonder why they didn't use more of the SG cast. Why did evil Superman's support team feature Dig and Frost and not, say, Hank Henshaw and Lena? Or throw in Manchester and Lockwood as muscle for Oliver to beat up, with a comedic beat about how the two of them are best buds in this reality?

[dvil]

Bah, I wanted to see more of Brainy and AMAZO fighting.

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

At the very least, they could have been included in the closing scenes with Oliver and Barry at the bar.

During the crossovers Oliver and Barry seem to be each other's soulmates.  No room for interlopers!  That being said, an Iris/Felicity scene talking about how happy they were to get their husbands back to normal would have worked.

[benteen]

I do wish we had seen more alternate worlds and alternate takes on the characters.  It felt like there weren't as much as there could have been.

[mtlchick]

23 hours ago, quarks said:

Apparently Quebecois, though I think that's impossible to guess if you've ever met anyone from Quebec.  

Why, apparently, is "Flash promised that if Cavanaugh promised to stay on the show, he could play a variety of characters, some with accents." I know that doesn't explain the Quebec part, but that's all I got.

As an English Quebecer (we do exist!) the first time I heard his take on a French Canadian accent was "is he supposed to be from New Orleans? Oh, he mentioned poutine and some Quebecois slang.  Come on, dude.  You studied French in Quebec. You can do better."

[ottoDbusdriver]

23 hours ago, benteen said:

I do wish we had seen more alternate worlds and alternate takes on the characters.  It felt like there weren't as much as there could have been.

Like Earths 54-89 (if you count Earth-X as Earth-53), which apparently exist but we didn't see any of.

[quarks]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

As an English Quebecer (we do exist!) the first time I heard his take on a French Canadian accent was "is he supposed to be from New Orleans? Oh, he mentioned poutine and some Quebecois slang.  Come on, dude.  You studied French in Quebec. You can do better."

Though that's definitely not a Cajun accent either!

[immortalfrieza]

On 12/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And did they have to make Supes weaker than asshat Deegan/Bizarro? It should have been a more even-handed fight.

Even handed nothing, the fight should have been a total curbstomp battle in the real Superman's favor. It's been established on Supergirl that Clark has been fighting supervillains for years including other Kryptonians like Zod so the only reason Deegan lasted 2 minutes again him much less be on the verge of winning is because of plot.

On 12/12/2018 at 4:21 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I guess Clark and Lois going to Argo City for good is one way to make an excuse why he isn't around to help Kara and the gang once shit really hits the fan later this season.

Not a particularly good excuse considering they've got Red Sun generators on Earth to keep Lois from having an explosive Kryptonian pregnancy, not to mention that there's no reason Clark shouldn't be able to pop into Earth for a couple weeks every couple of months or so.

 

On 12/11/2018 at 9:55 PM, quarks said:

14. Oliver and Barry enjoying their traditional annual bonding scene before heading off to not speak to each other for months.

Of course. Barry is super busy dealing with all the villains that he could beat in literally less than 2 seconds but takes him all day if not months because plot while Oliver loves sticking arrows in bad guys and he knows Barry would make Star City a crime free utopia in the space of a week or two if he stuck around for any real length of time. It's better for everybody (i.e. the writers) if neither interacts with the other much if at all outside of crossovers.

Edited December 16, 2018 by immortalfrieza

[legaleagle53]

On 12/13/2018 at 11:31 PM, Perfect Xero said:

Given that this was, nominally, the Supergirl episode of the crossover I wonder why they didn't use more of the SG cast. Why did evil Superman's support team feature Dig and Frost and not, say, Hank Henshaw and Lena? Or throw in Manchester and Lockwood as muscle for Oliver to beat up, with a comedic beat about how the two of them are best buds in this reality?

Lena would have been especially interesting, since it would give her a reason for going full-on evil like her brother Lex (who is probably a Ray Palmer-ish Boy Scout in the rewritten reality), which is apparently what some viewers have been wanting for some time.

[BkWurm1]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:34 PM, immortalfrieza said:

Not a particularly good excuse considering they've got Red Sun generators on Earth to keep Lois from having an explosive Kryptonian pregnancy, not to mention that there's no reason Clark shouldn't be able to pop into Earth for a couple weeks every couple of months or so.

Lois would go nuts in she was confined to just a room with a red lamp in it.  She gets the whole city in space.  And is Clark really going to want to leave his wife that far away when she's on a strange world and pregnant?  And then once she has the baby, depowered toddler sounds a lot easier than superbaby.  This excuse lasts til the kid is ready for school, lol.  

And we don't give Lois enough credit for what she's giving up either.  For her to walk away from her career right now is pretty huge.  

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lois would go nuts in she was confined to just a room with a red lamp in it.  She gets the whole city in space.  And is Clark really going to want to leave his wife that far away when she's on a strange world and pregnant?  And then once she has the baby, depowered toddler sounds a lot easier than superbaby.  This excuse lasts til the kid is ready for school, lol.  

And we don't give Lois enough credit for what she's giving up either.  For her to walk away from her career right now is pretty huge.  

Both excellent points.  There's also the fact that Lois is now ostensibly engaged to Clark Kent, not to Superman.  They'd have to be especially careful if their child did in fact turn out to have inherited his or her father's powers.  How would they explain a one-year-old who can fly and melt steel just by looking at it?  And you all think POTTY-training's tough!

And that said, I would watch the hell out of a spinoff of Superman and Lois.  I think the fandom is ready for a fresh take on these two iconic characters, and while I know a lot of people haven't quite warmed up to Bitsie's Lois yet, from what I can tell, they're definitely fans of Tyler's Superman.  I certainly am, and I like Bitsie's feisty Lois, too!

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And then once she has the baby, depowered toddler sounds a lot easier than superbaby.  This excuse lasts til the kid is ready for school, lol.  

 

15 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

They'd have to be especially careful if their child did in fact turn out to have inherited his or her father's powers.  How would they explain a one-year-old who can fly and melt steel just by looking at it?  And you all think POTTY-training's tough!

Martha and Jonathan managed to raise Clark just fine. And they were HUMAN. It doesn't say much that neither Clark or Lois would be able to handle a super baby, who would be only half Kryptonian; thus, as I see it, not as powerful as Daddy.

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Martha and Jonathan managed to raise Clark just fine. And they were HUMAN. It doesn't say much that neither Clark or Lois would be able to handle a super baby, who would be only half Kryptonian; thus, as I see it, not as powerful as Daddy.

To be fair, they got a toddler not a newborn on earth that could at least slightly be reasoned with and who might have been trained more than the average wee one after years in his pod.  :D  And really, do we think Lois already has the Martha Mom super powers, yet?    

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:34 PM, immortalfrieza said:

Even handed nothing, the fight should have been a total curbstomp battle in the real Superman's favor. It's been established on Supergirl that Clark has been fighting supervillains for years including other Kryptonians like Zod so the only reason Deegan lasted 2 minutes again him much less be on the verge of winning is because of plot.

Putting aside the "on any given Sunday" nature of superhero fights, a few points:

1. Superman lost to Supergirl in a fight, despite him having the edge in experience.

2. Deegan rewrote reality. Presumably his Superman has at least as much experience fighting as real Supes in his reality. Plus he may have used his reality-rewriting to give himself an edge -- making his Superman stronger, faster, etc.

3.   It's been observed in various comics and cartoons that because real Supes is a good guy, he holds himself back. A lot. Deegan doesn't have that issue.

If anything, Deegan with Superman's base powers PLUS reality-warping powers PLUS fundamentally being crazy/immoral should have been a curbstomping of real Supes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

44 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And really, do we think Lois already has the Martha Mom super powers, yet?    

Heh, tru, dat.

[Trini]

Rewatched; and I'm still very impressed at Tyler H. creating two distinct Supermen. Acting™! Also really was glad to see Carlos play another version of Cisco (with a new hairdo, too!); he's barely getting stuff to do on his home show.

I can see how some could think this was a backdoor pilot for a Superman show, Clark and Lois several good scenes in the two episodes they were in to establish them as characters. Unlike Batwoman, ::sigh::  But Clark and Lois are like DC 'royalty', so I can see why they got more focus.

So many plot holes, etc. to keep certain characters out of the action.

Iris really should have been here at the conclusion since she started out the crossover story, but also Felicity, because Oliver didn't have anyone to connect to from the Arrow cast. Barry had a moment with Mr. Ramon (bringing up Dante), and Kara had Alex, Clark and Lois.

With how hard they were hitting the 'Oliver isn't as good as these other heroes' beat, I really hope the resolution in the next crossover is worth the downgrade they gave him here.

[statsgirl]

On 12/31/2018 at 4:55 PM, Trini said:

With how hard they were hitting the 'Oliver isn't as good as these other heroes' beat, I really hope the resolution in the next crossover is worth the downgrade they gave him here.

It's the annual crossover downgrade.  Happens every year at this time on The Flash and Supergirl parts of the crossover when everyone says how terrible a person Oliver is and hopes that it doesn't rub off on Barry.  This year they are beating that drum extra hard presumably to set up the crossover next year but going by the comments I've been reading, there's more resentment (especially by Arrow fans) of how other characters keep dumping on Oliver than there is drinking of the kool-aid.

Personally, I hate it. Oliver has had terrible things happen to him and he keeps struggling to find the light in himself and stupidly sacrificing himself for (undeserving IMO) others. It feels like blaming the victim. I end up resenting Barry, Kara and all their cadres instead of saying "Hey, I must catch the next episode of The Flash."

[Trini]

It was happening in the Arrow episode too, which was interesting.

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

It was happening in the Arrow episode too, which was interesting.

At least in the Arrow episode they were talking about his past bad behavior and then just the recent communication snafu between Olicity but no one one Team Arrow was going around and making dire statements about his darkness lol

[secnarf]

Now that this topic has died down a bit - as someone who skipped out on the entire crossover event (don't watch any of the other shows and hated last year's crossover) is there anything plot-wise I need to know going forward?

[legaleagle53]

57 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Now that this topic has died down a bit - as someone who skipped out on the entire crossover event (don't watch any of the other shows and hated last year's crossover) is there anything plot-wise I need to know going forward?

Just that there's a new reason that Superman won't be available during the next major kerfluffle.  He and Lois are spending the next nine months or so in Argo City because Lois is pregnant, and they feel it would be safer for her to carry the pregnancy to term in a Kryptonian environment to prevent the baby from manifesting any superpowers in utero, since that would be potentially fatal to Lois.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't see how that would be possible with the baby's cells never being exposed to solar energy to draw any powers from. Though, given possible bad interactions between non-powered Kryptonian and human biology it's probably still a very good idea to have Lois' medical care provided by people with advanced technology and familiarity with the former.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I don't see how that would be possible with the baby's cells never being exposed to solar energy to draw any powers from. Though, given possible bad interactions between non-powered Kryptonian and human biology it's probably still a very good idea to have Lois' medical care provided by people with advanced technology and familiarity with the former.

The baby would be exposed to yellow solar radiation through Lois.  Yellow solar radiation is so powerful that it can penetrate anything, including lead and the Earth's core.  That's why Superman and Supergirl don't lose their powers at night or if trapped in a lead-lined room. Plus, as you pointed out, Lois would receive better medical care in Argo City if something happened to go wrong than she ever would in even the best hospital on Earth.

Edited January 9, 2019 by legaleagle53

[Starfish35]

Wrapping up a three-episode watch in preparation for this year’s crossover...never watched it the first time around.  This was, maybe, the weakest of the three episodes IMO.  I haven’t watched Supergirl (with the exception of the crossovers) since the end of season two, so I’m a little out of date on everything.    But Kara and Alex still have great sisters chemistry - I do miss that.  Though the wig for Earth-1 Alex was pretty terrible.  

I think this is also the first time I’ve seen Brainy, and I loved his delight at being included in the fight with Amazo (which he promptly took over).

While I’ve always liked Tyler Hoechlin’s Superman, I really was impressed by his portrayal of the evil “Superman” as well.  And I always enjoy seeing him and Kara work together.

Favorite thing maybe, though, was the cute scene at the end with Oliver admitting “I kinda like you guys”.  I do love the trio, with Oliver as the protective but grumpy big brother watching out for his kid siblings.  

ETA:  oh I forgot to mention Gary!  I’d forgotten he had a cameo in this, so I yelled when he showed up. And “not heroes, legends.” 😂🤣😂

Edited October 22, 2019 by Starfish35