S01.E07: Hold the Salt

[tessaray]

Air date: December 4, 2018

Quote

Dan questions Peter’s motives when he learns about the pricey Christmas gift that Jackie purchased for her new, unemployed beau. Mark and Mary write up their Christmas wish lists. Darlene receives dating advice from an unlikely source.

Guest Stars:  Jay R. Ferguson, Juliette Lewis, Matthew Broderick

Some may find it interesting that this episode is directed by Kimberly McCullough. 

[Reality police]

Yes!

Five minutes later..    

Damn. 

I so wanted them to hit it off. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Reality police

[Keywestclubkid]

Matthew Broderick sure can play smarmy so well 

[ams1001]

Because of a comment from last week I made a point of noticing the office furniture at Darlene's job. I want the chest of drawers by the window.

Jackie, no. Just no. He will never pay you back. Ask me how I know. (Also, he's weird. Who calls crayons "crayolas"?)

[SoMuchTV]

Help me out. In the background in the Conner house, there's something that looks like a 60s style playpen. Was there a baby or a puppy or something that I've missed?

On 12/4/2018 at 8:47 PM, SoMuchTV said:

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by SoMuchTV
Somehow quoted when I meant to edit.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Help me out. In the background in the Conner house, there's something that looks like a 60s style playpen. Was there a baby of a puppy or something that I've missed?

Becky is pregnant so I assumed she just pulled it out. 

[ams1001]

Just now, SoMuchTV said:

Help me out. In the background in the Conner house, there's something that looks like a 60s style playpen. Was there a baby of a puppy or something that I've missed?

I assumed it was in the garage and Becky was wanting it for her baby that's not due for several months...(I mean, if they have all the smoke alarms in a drawer in the kitchen, they're probably not too concerned about old playpens...). I don't think there was actually any comment on its presence.

[srpturtle80]

Loved loved loved the beginning scene with Darlene and Ben in the office. The sticker on his butt lol. And that kiss was HOT. 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

Loved loved loved the beginning scene with Darlene and Ben in the office. The sticker on his butt lol. And that kiss was HOT. 

I probably laughed louder than was strictly necessary at "golden delicious."

[Melina22]

I enjoyed this episode quite a bit but... 

I hate to say this because I've enjoyed Matthew Broderick's acting since War Games but I just don't like him in this role. It's like he's completely forgotten how to act. Every time he's on it takes me out of the show. I'm not certain how to explain why, except that he isn't a believable character to me, which is bizarre, given how famous he is. 

Juliette Lewis, on the other hand, is wonderful, and I always enjoy her scenes. 

[Caseysgirl]

Honestly, I think Ben is a lot more reasonable a guy than Darlene deserves. She was literally LOOKING for things to disagree with him about. Who starts salting someone else’s cooking? She could always add salt to her own serving. I’ve always found Darlene to be like Roseann without the charm or humor.

[Dee]

Matthew Broderick is slowly morphing into Teddy Perkins.

[Melina22]

Who is Teddy Perkins? 

[UYI]

...Well, that escalated quickly, didn't it? They wasted no time with Darlene and Ben. Even with them agreeing to trust each other at the end, it feels like this whole thing is moving WAY too fast (which is the REAL issue here to me, YMMV of course). 

Edited December 5, 2018 by UYI

[SHD]

31 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I hate to say this because I've enjoyed Matthew Broderick's acting since War Games but I just don't like him in this role. It's like he's completely forgotten how to act. 

This! It's almost like he's been doing stage work for so long that he always exaggerates his speech and inflections, as if he has to play to the back rows of the theater. Every line reading is too broad. It doesn't work on TV.

[Kimmmmmm]

41 minutes ago, Caseysgirl said:

Honestly, I think Ben is a lot more reasonable a guy than Darlene deserves. She was literally LOOKING for things to disagree with him about. Who starts salting someone else’s cooking? She could always add salt to her own serving. I’ve always found Darlene to be like Roseann without the charm or humor.

He's a lot more everything than she deserves

[Annber03]

24 minutes ago, UYI said:

...Well, that escalated quickly, didn't it? They wasted oo time with Darlene and Ben. Even with them agreeing to trust each other at the end, it feels like this whole thing is moving WAY too fast (which is the REAL issue here to me, YMMV of course). 

I get the feeling that's a concern of Darlene's, too, what with the way she was talking to Becky about how it might seem like she's looking for somebody to lean on in the wake of all the craziness that's been happening in her life. She was so used to taking things slow with David, so I could see where the way this relationship's unfolded is kinda freaking her out a bit. 

I'm really enjoying these talks between Becky and Darlene. It's cool to see them turning to each other and getting and giving advice. 

I also liked the ending scene with Jackie, Darlene, and Harris, and Dan being protective over everything with Jackie. 

[mythoughtis]

Darlene needs to learn how to be polite.  How did she make it to 40 without a basic understanding of how to behave? You get invited to someone's home. If they ask you to take your shoes off, do so.  If they are serving red wine- don’t help yourself to the white. Either drink the red or ask for water or a soft drink. They are cooking- don’t change the recipe.  There is sarcastic humor and then there’s just plain rudeness.  

Lacy is the breakout star of this show. 

Just once, can Jackie find a man that actually treats her well?

Edited December 5, 2018 by mythoughtis

[ams1001]

49 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Darlene needs to learn how to be polite.  How did she make it to 40 without a basic understanding of how to behave? You get invited to someone's home. If they ask you to take your shoes off, do so.  If they are serving red wine- don’t help yourself to the white. Either drink the red or ask for water or a soft drink. They are cooking- don’t change the recipe.  There is sarcastic humor and then there’s just plain rudeness.  

She wasn't a very good guest (personally, I'd be happy to take my shoes off; half my shoes are within 10 feet of my front door because I usually kick them off as soon as I get home), but for a few minutes there I was wondering if we were going to learn he had OCD or something.

[Keywestclubkid]

I swear to god I will move in here and I will bring mom. 

[SmithW6079]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Just once, can Jackie find a man that actually treats her well?

I was thinking that too, except if she's stupid enough to but him expensive presents, pay for his freaking tuition, and put his name on her accounts, maybe she deserves it. Isn't Jackie smarter than that?

Darlene was just rude from the get-go with the whole shoes thing. He asked politely for her to remove them, and she got all bitchy about it. It reminded me why I dislike Darlene so much. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by SmithW6079

[PradaKitty]

So... did we all imagine Andy? 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

So... did we all imagine Andy? 

Yes and jerry to 

[Bastet]

Becky and Geena tag-teaming to tease Darlene was cute; I’d normally be annoyed by their assumption, but – inexplicably; see below – they were accurate in their reading of Darlene’s attire so it was a fun moment between the sisters-in-law and I’m hungry for any and all placement of Geena within the family beyond her preaching at them.

I continue to throw up in my mouth at the stuff the studio audience hoots and hollers at; why Darlene would want to date her boss remains beyond me after this episode just as it has after all previous ones since he was introduced.  He’s not attractive to me on any level, and certainly not to overcome the fact he’s her boss.  To me, this storyline feels forced, but apparently it’s working on most viewers.  I’m not usually this out of step of the overall fandom, but this guy is a big ball of no for me.

I don’t wear shoes in my house, and like when guests also take theirs off, but I would never demand it.  And if she likes white wine, even though red goes better with paella, why can’t she have white and he has red?  As a host, one generally recommends a drink but also states what else there is to offer.  It’s not like Darlene refused what was served; he invited her to open a bottle and she asked to open another for herself instead (which would still allow him to open his chosen bottle).  She’s not making him “not enjoy himself” by enjoying herself, that’s crap – they can just each have their own damn wine and both enjoy the dinner.

And I fundamentally hate this whole “You’re wrong for being who you are; you actually want to cede control” narrative being foisted on Darlene.  This Two Alphas thing has potential, but thus far it seems set up to tell Darlene she’s wrong.

And a big fat eww to Darlene boning him on the desk.  Of their office.  What, a few weeks into working together?  This is so messed up, but the show loves it.  Combine the narrative endorsement of this with that of Becky becoming a mom, and I’m having to work at “enjoying in spite of,” which is not common for me with this franchise.  (But, hey, I did it in season nine with mixed emotions but wound up being generally happy upon years-later re-watch, so who knows?)

Dan with the grandkids is always fun.  As is his “please, leave me alone,” attitude towards the dipshit boyfriend when he's just some guy dating Jackie.  And, lords yes, his spotting dipshit boyfriend as yet another manipulative asshole Jackie falls for and makes bad decisions about and stepping in.   I wish she’d progressed further, and I’m annoyed by the sexist connotations that she hasn’t and thus he must, but I have to, as always, applaud the uncomfortable realism of this show.  I hope they'll play it out as well as they did in the past.

And, no, Dipshit Boyfriend of Jackie (whom both Hepburns would leave in the dust; well, Katharine, definitely, but I suspect, even without knowing much of anything about her, Audrey, too), most people don’t refer to them as Crayolas as an example of a particular brand name routinely being used to describe an product that is not necessarily that brand.  That’s Xerox, Kleenex, Chapstick, etc., not Crayola – most people say crayons.

The tag with Jackie and Darlene both giving non-advice yet freaking out lest Harris get actual bad advice from Becky was fun.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bastet

[UYI]

I won't lie, I found myself yelling "beat his ass" at the TV to Dan in regards to Matthew Broderick's character. 

[Pete Martell]

 

This song was in the charts when Jackie was written true to character. 

It has taken over 25 years, an improbable revival, a shameful Twitter meltdown, and a revival of a revival, but ladies and gentlemen, Jackie Harris is finally being written in character again!!!

Edited December 5, 2018 by Pete Martell

[chocolatine]

They lost me at "vegan paella".

[Reality police]

19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

They lost me at "vegan paella".

I was upset at "stir the paella", that's just wrong, how do you get the crust?

[hnygrl]

I may have to watch this one again. Weirdly enough, I can’t decide if I liked it or hated it. The liked parts didn’t overshadow the hated parts and vice versa. 

 

But I’ll tell you what...I can NOT stop lusting after that file cabinet. It. Is. LIFE. 

[Pete Martell]

34 minutes ago, Bastet said:

 I don’t wear shoes in my house, and like when guests also take theirs off, but I would never demand it.  And if she likes white wine, even though red goes better with paella, why can’t she have white and he has red?  As a host, one generally recommends a drink but also states what else there is to offer.  It’s not like Darlene refused what was served; he invited her to open a bottle and she asked to open another for herself instead (which would still allow him to open his chosen bottle).  She’s not making him “not enjoy himself” by enjoying herself, that’s crap – they can just each have their own damn wine and both enjoy the dinner.

And I fundamentally hate this whole “You’re wrong for being who you are; you actually want to cede control” narrative being foisted on Darlene.  This Two Alphas thing has potential, but thus far it seems set up to tell Darlene she’s wrong. 

It came across to me as both of them struggling with boundaries, and that Ben's issues with Darlene were more that she was somewhat defensive from the time she came into his apartment (thanks to her conversation with Becky) but I see what you mean. I kind of think the main reason it feels like Darlene is changing more is because she is our point of view character - Ben is just there to facilitate her storyline.  

I feel like this whole story is a setup for if Johnny Galecki can return next season - we are hearing about how Darlene gives too little and David gave too much. I could see the "new" David and Darlene reconciling. 

[chocolatine]

14 minutes ago, Reality police said:

I was upset at "stir the paella", that's just wrong, how do you get the crust?

I think you're confusing paella with tortilla (Spanish, not Mexican). Paella doesn't have a crust, but it is supposed to have prawns, mussels, and sausage in it.

[Meushell]

Ben didn’t come off as an alpha, and much more willing to compromise. The shoe issue, well, it’s his house. The wine, all he did was ask her to try the red first. The salt, he obviously didn’t want his food salted. She was welcomed to add it to her portion at the table. Darlene really has issues if she finds someone controlling because they don’t do everything she wants.

[Reality police]

9 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I think you're confusing paella with tortilla (Spanish, not Mexican). Paella doesn't have a crust, but it is supposed to have prawns, mussels, and sausage in it.

The crusty rice at the bottom is what I was referring to.

 

After cooking paella, there is usually a layer of toasted rice at the bottom of the pan, called socarrat in Catalan. This is considered a delicacy among connoiseurs and is essential to a good paella. The toasted rice develops on its own if the paella is cooked over a burner or open fire. If cooked in an oven, however, it will not. To correct this, place the paella over a high flame while listening to the rice toast at the bottom of the pan. Once the aroma of toasted rice wafts upwards, it is removed from the heat. The paella must then sit for about five minutes (most recipes recommend the paella be covered with a tea-towel at this point) to absorb the remaining broth.

[UYI]

55 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

 

This song was in the charts when Jackie was written true to character. 

It has taken over 25 years, an improbable revival, a shameful Twitter meltdown, and a revival of a revival, but ladies and gentlemen, Jackie Harris is finally being written in character again!!!

Hey now, Enjoy the Silence came out in 1990. I'd say Jackie was written in character at LEAST until 1994. ;)

(Sidenote: I'm a year older than this song. Now y'all REALLY feel old! ^_^)

[BeachDays]

27 minutes ago, Bastet said:

 

I continue to throw up in my mouth at the stuff the studio audience hoots and hollers at; why Darlene would want to date her boss remains beyond me after this episode just as it has after all previous ones since he was introduced.  He’s not attractive to me on any level, and certainly not to overcome the fact he’s her boss.  To me, this storyline feels forced, but apparently it’s working on most viewers.  I’m not usually this out of step of the overall fandom, but this guy is a big ball of no for me.

I don’t wear shoes in my house, and like when guests also take theirs off, but I would never demand it.  And if she likes white wine, even though red goes better with paella, why can’t she have white and he has red?  As a host, one generally recommends a drink but also states what else there is to offer.  It’s not like Darlene refused what was served; he invited her to open a bottle and she asked to open another for herself instead (which would still allow him to open his chosen bottle).  She’s not making him “not enjoy himself” by enjoying herself, that’s crap – they can just each have their own damn wine and both enjoy the dinner.

And I fundamentally hate this whole “You’re wrong for being who you are; you actually want to cede control” narrative being foisted on Darlene.  This Two Alphas thing has potential, but thus far it seems set up to tell Darlene she’s wrong.

And a big fat eww to Darlene boning him on the desk.  Of their office.  What, a few weeks into working together?  This is so messed up, but the show loves it.  Combine the narrative endorsement of this with that of Becky becoming a mom, and I’m having to work at “enjoying in spite of,” which is not common for me with this franchise.  (But, hey, I did it in season nine with mixed emotions but wound up being generally happy upon years-later re-watch, so who knows?)

 

 

So I haven’t watched this episode air yet bc I only have Hulu so I will have to watch tomorrow, BUT this is the episode that I saw taped.   I am super curious about what was left in and what was cut and how it was all edited together.

I can say this-  my reaction to Ben and Darlene was more “wtf?!?” than “omg yes!!!”   My perspective is probably a bit skewed but I was taken aback bc I had no idea who this new guy was or what Darlene’s new job was (since I saw this before the previous couple of episodes had aired), so I was trying to piece everything together- but my immediate reaction was that Darlene isn’t actually as much into this guy as she seems to WANT to be, but is rushing into him because he is the opposite of David.  So then the other week when she dumps Neil bc he is TOO much like David made me go “mmhmm, I see what’s going on here.”   At the very least, they are playing with her relationship dynamics and getting her to try out new things, to see how it feels to be bossed around (not so good but maybe sometimes ok to let go and not always have things her way).   

I don’t know if this was included in the episode but did Blue say she is tired of David never making up his mind?   And then she said that he needs therapy (god yes please get that poor guy some therapy), and Darlene says she doesn’t want him to change too much?  I am seeing both David and Darlene (if David actually gets quality therapy) possibly growing and seeing things from the other side.   

Also did they include the line that Ben is only the second guy Darlene has had sex with?  That surprised me! 

Ok enough of my shipper-colored glasses (for now).   Just 2 interesting things from filming.  The first time Sara Gilbert went to jump up on Ben, her pants didn’t follow-  luckily she grabbed them about 3/4 down lol.  

Second thing, and this was inadvertent I’m assuming since everyone converged and they reshot the scene much less aggressively, the first time they did the scene at the apartment, it seemed like Ben was going to possibly go down the Fisher route. But I think that was just due to the actors size difference, and like I said the second time they did it it was much less aggressive.   But I was thinking “oh no, not my Darlene!!!”  😭   So then at the end when he makes the comment that she was touching the desk and not him, I was like ugh, what a jerk.   So I was surprised to come on here and see folks siding with Ben more than Darlene.   But perhaps when I see the aired episode I will feel differently.   I just feel so protective of her! 

[Pete Martell]

1 minute ago, UYI said:

Hey now, Enjoy the Silence came out in 1990. I'd say Jackie was written in character at LEAST until 1994. ;)

I'd say it was whenever she was pregnant as that was the beginning of the end for me, but I'm sure it was on a chart somewhere in 1993. 

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, Reality police said:

The crusty rice at the bottom is what I was referring to.

 

After cooking paella, there is usually a layer of toasted rice at the bottom of the pan, called socarrat in Catalan. This is considered a delicacy among connoiseurs and is essential to a good paella. The toasted rice develops on its own if the paella is cooked over a burner or open fire. If cooked in an oven, however, it will not. To correct this, place the paella over a high flame while listening to the rice toast at the bottom of the pan. Once the aroma of toasted rice wafts upwards, it is removed from the heat. The paella must then sit for about five minutes (most recipes recommend the paella be covered with a tea-towel at this point) to absorb the remaining broth.

I have to try this. I've eaten paella in Spain a few times, but I've never had it with the crusty rice on the bottom. I feel robbed. :)

[Pete Martell]

2 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

Also did they include the line that Ben is only the second guy Darlene has had sex with?  That surprised me! 

I was surprised by that as well because I thought they'd implied she'd had sex with Justin Long's character. 

[UYI]

3 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

Also did they include the line that Ben is only the second guy Darlene has had sex with?  That surprised me! 

 

Yes they did, and I can actually see Darlene not dating after David until now (and maybe not getting to having sex with Neil before that ended). And of course I know her first time was with David (and vice versa). Didn't she have sex with that guy Jimmy from season 7, though? I don't remember. 

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, UYI said:

Didn't she have sex with that guy Jimmy from season 7, though? I don't remember. 

At the time she told David that she did.

[BeachDays]

1 minute ago, Pete Martell said:

I was surprised by that as well because I thought they'd implied she'd had sex with Justin Long's character. 

 

Thats what I thought too!  But I guess they just talked and maybe petted?  Haha.   And all those years at college and all those years separated.... color me surprised but I do like that narrative choice.  

[Pete Martell]

1 minute ago, BeachDays said:

Thats what I thought too!  But I guess they just talked and maybe petted?  Haha.   And all those years at college and all those years separated.... color me surprised but I do like that narrative choice.  

Sometimes I wondered if they may have intended Darlene to be somewhat asexual and just interested in David mostly because of the connection between them, but I guess not.

[BeachDays]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

Yes they did, and I can actually see Darlene not dating after David until now (and maybe not getting to having sex with Neil before that ended). And of course I know her first time was with David (and vice versa). Didn't she have sex with that guy Jimmy from season 7, though? I don't remember. 

 

Yeah I rewatched these episodes and she did say she did but then later you can tell she had been lying.   Well she didn’t necessary need to be lying but she definitely lied about certain things and was insecure, so once I knew that David had been the only one she ever slept with, it didn’t feel off that she lied about that too. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by BeachDays

[Pete Martell]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I enjoyed this episode quite a bit but... 

I hate to say this because I've enjoyed Matthew Broderick's acting since War Games but I just don't like him in this role. It's like he's completely forgotten how to act. Every time he's on it takes me out of the show. I'm not certain how to explain why, except that he isn't a believable character to me, which is bizarre, given how famous he is. 

Juliette Lewis, on the other hand, is wonderful, and I always enjoy her scenes. 

I can't tell if Broderick is playing the role this way intentionally or if he's just not used to this format (I don't know how many sitcoms he's even been on), but it's offputting. At least we know he's supposed to be a bad guy (I assume) so the weirdness feels like a more deliberate choice. 

I was surprised to see Lewis again, but it makes sense to use Blue to keep David around in this universe. I'm glad she and Darlene still aren't friends. 

[BeachDays]

1 minute ago, Pete Martell said:

Sometimes I wondered if they may have intended Darlene to be somewhat asexual and just interested in David mostly because of the connection between them, but I guess not.

 

I do think this is the case... demisexual is it?        

[tessaray]

25 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

I don’t know if this was included in the episode but did Blue say she is tired of David never making up his mind?   And then she said that he needs therapy (god yes please get that poor guy some therapy), and Darlene says she doesn’t want him to change too much?

Yes.  Also, I laughed when Darlene said David and Blue finally made sense once she knew Blue had been a dominatrix.  

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I was thinking that too, except if she's stupid enough to but him expensive presents, pay for his freaking tuition, and put his name on her accounts, maybe she deserves it. Isn't Jackie smarter than that?

Jackie often makes the wrong choices in men. She's also lonely, wants to be with someone she sees as safe, and even though we aren't seeing much of Bev, I wouldn't be surprised if Bev is in her ear every day saying he's so cultured and too good for her.

[Caseysgirl]

Matthew Broderick is playing this guy with so little charm or charisma, that it’s hard to understand what in the hell Jackie sees in him. He has very little sex appeal, is arrogant, boring and unemployed. Hey, in her day, George Clooney’s character ( can’t remember his name) was all over her; she’s really lost her mojo!

Edited December 5, 2018 by Caseysgirl

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, Caseysgirl said:

Matthew Broderick is playing this guy with so little charm or charisma, that it’s hard to understand what in the hell Jackie sees in him. He has very little sex appeal, is arrogant, boring and unemployed. Hey, in her day, George Clooney’s character ( can’t remember his name) was all over her; she’s really lost her mojo!

Jackie herself said something earlier this season about how hard it is to find a man her age who has hair, a job, etc. I guess she is settling for the hair. 

After all the discussion last week I was wondering if they were using this to set up a Jackie/Dan relationship, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 

[greekmom]

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Just once, can Jackie find a man that actually treats her well?

What about Fred? Or is he being erased like Andy?  Fred actually treated Jackie pretty well till Jackie screwed that up.