S09.E08: Evolution

[Nashville]

11 hours ago, dvil said:

Aww, c'mon. Sure, Jesus wasn't expecting a walker to dodge an attack but he had ninja skills to take out living combatants.

Well, yeah - but to steal a quote from Fezzik in The Princess Bride, “You use different moves”.  Ninja Jesus could have sliced that first Whisperer into julienne fries, sure - if Jesus had known he was fighting a human.  At the moment Jesus encountered his first Whisperer, though, Jesus was in full-on walker-fighting mode.  Jesus was calculating his moves based on his perceived opponents - slow, pure-offense creatures with zero capacity for feint, or defense, or use of weapons other than teeth or hands.

So - when Jesus is confronted with a walker which suddenly busts out moves unseen in 8+ years of walker history, he needs about 6/10ths of a second to perceive the change, recognize the need to react, and adjust his tactics; unfortunately for Jesus, that’s about 3/10ths of a second longer than he had before getting a knife in the back.

Like I said earlier in another thread (warning: spoiler thread) - sometimes, a little surprise is all you need.

 

11 hours ago, dvil said:

Years into the ZA, despite being aware of dangers like the old Saviors, kids are still sneaking into the woods

ZA or not, kids will always and forever be doing stuff they don’t want their folks to find out about.  It’s the law.

 

11 hours ago, dvil said:

and playing with pet walkers?

Kinda makes sense, actually:

• Q: In the ZA, what’s the one pet walkers will never kill?  
• A: Another walker.  

;)

 

41 minutes ago, peach said:

My guess is that they want to lay some groundwork with the Magna character for when Danai leaves.

Dang - beat me to it.

[mightysparrow]

6 minutes ago, Butless said:

I think , at base, it's greed. TPTB also seem to be in an echo chamber where they self-congratulate themselves on their genius status. When they see the  mass following, and all the people at the cons, they mistake it for worship. Simply put, it has gone to their heads. When you've got Kirkman bloviating on Talking Dead, and Scott Gimple on there behaving like he thinks he is the funniest thing since , who know?, Louie CK??,  you can see how massive their egos got inflated, over th e course of this show.

The blame, lies at their feet, ultimately. Those are the  two that sign off on everything in this universe. Id like to see the disgusting assholes who kept promoting Gimple. We can see how the product they've given us has been substandard and broken. All they saw must have dollar signs. How much can we ring out of them.How can we prolong the gravy train. Etc. They had a potential goose egg for much longer, but they shat the pond full and killed the goose.

I would like to hear the actors speak for themselves, too. I think they dicked the Maggie actress around, and treated the Jesus actor badly because he spoke up about the inconsistencies in his character. He always seemed to be sarcastically laughing at an in-joke when certain things were broached on TD. I think they were passive-aggressive to them in the way they characters were handled, especially in the Jesus case. They want Maggie to come back. I think they favor whoever kisses their asses, Gimple especially, and are shitty to those who don't. I would love to hear Lincoln's take on Gimple. He truly did not seem to be on the page about Carl dying. And the way the Carl actor was treated was abominable.

You just know there are entertainment reporters out there with sharpened pencils, so to speak, and who are just waiting to jump on this story. There have  got to have been plenty of grumblings over the years, that came their way. They just need on the record sources.

Greed and ego have destroyed this show.  Watching Kirkman, Gimple, Nicotero sitting on panels at fan conventions with the actors that people actually came to see, was mind-blowing.  I've never seen anything like that before.  Most of the time, you never know what the writers or directors of a television show look like and you sure as shit NEVER see the producers.  I think the beginning of the end was the opening night they held in Madison Square Gardens.  You could smell the stink of inflated egos through the television screen.  The next year, irony came and bit them all in the ass when they held the opening night in the Hollywood cemetery and it poured with rain.

[Butless]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

I remember when Jesus (the character) arrived.  There was so much fanfare, it was almost like when Michonne appeared.  I don't read the comics (sorry, GRAPHIC NOVELS), so I didn't know who Jesus was other than he was openly gay and was a badass.  So I was expecting a lot.  What we got was the 'Yakkety Sax' chase scene and then...nothing.  I kept waiting for Jesus to live up to the hype but he never did.  I thought that part of it might be down to the limitations of the actor but not being able to act never stopped TWD from putting a character front and centre before (hi Allanah!). 

It turns out that the actor was just as fed-up as the viewing public.  The new development is that he's said so.  I don't think any actor has been so frank about wanting to get the fuck out of Dodge.  Some actors have been vocal about NOT wanting to leave but nobody ever said, 'I'm bored, kill me off'.  To add to the already pungent shit sauce tptb have created, they were forced to issue a statement explaining wtf happened to Maggie.  What was interesting was it wasn't a joint statement from AMC and Lauren:  it was ALL AMC.

I've been begging for a tell-all for years.  I can't wait to read the actor who played T-Dogg and Chad Coleman's chapters.  I wouldn't be surprised if it got turned into a movie.  Maybe Gimple can get a job as coffee-boy.

 

Edited to add:  I agree with @LadyMustang65 that Magna appears to be a Michonne-Lite character.  Which means that the assholes that be know how much they've gutted the ORIGINAL.

 

I agree with everything you said. The Tara actress, Im just at a loss for words on how she has retained hr character. I looked around for a gif of it but didnt find one, of her making the most obnoxious faces in the background of a seriouos scene. I think it was when Spencer was gutted by Negan. It's either in the background of that, or in an outtake of it that was added on AMC. Im surprised it isnt a meme,  what she did was so relly awful.  Personally, I find the actress creepy as hell, and 10x more creepy in real life, on the TD show. I do not know whats up with her, but I would like to know about that.  Shes a scientologist and her brother is up on serial rape charges. Something is wrong , there. She truly reminds me of a Manson chick. Dead eyes. Laughing at moments or things that are not funny,  etc.

Whats up with the T-Dogg & Chad Coleman characters, other than they seem to like to kill off the strong black men characters on teh show (except Morgqan, but Morgan is also unstable mentally, and those other guys werent).  Did they ever spill anything on their characters?

 

You know , they have a ad rep for killing off some of the better actors on the show. Maybe they speak up and they dont like it? When an actor would land on WD, it was a huge thing. They not only were on a premiere show, they were part of the franchise, for life. Unlimited love and money. Jesus was an ok actor, but he was charismatic, thanks to the actor. Still, I felt nothing when he was killed off. There was no decent or comprehensible growth or exploration of his character. And they really sort of made him a shitty layabout, who shirked all responsibility, at the end there. 

In fact, when he was killed,  I felt a little glad for him, that he was moving on. Like I will be with Michonne and Carol, too.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Butless

[watch2much]

I agree with all that's been said.  There has been no decent character development of newer characters for ages.  We still don't know what makes Negan "tick".  Gabriel expressed that frustration in this episode saying how he's been trying to find anything in Negan.  Episode after episode of Negan pontificating and not one iota of insight into how he became that way.  Jesus was about the only character I still cared about largely from long past episodes, nothing recent.  Carol seems stuck between being Mrs. Cleaver and her old badass self (really like the fire last week).  But her hair is awful.  Surely, it must be harder to manage in a time of less shampoo???I kind of like Siddiq because we know his back story, but it makes no sense when you have one real doctor that you send him out routinely. Daryl is still Daryl but he needs people to play off....the only intriguing thing is the walker evolution....but if they drag that out forever, I won't be around.

[Butless]

22 minutes ago, rab01 said:

The actress is 19; the actor playing Henry is 17.  The character was supposed to be Carl's age before the time jump, which was not Chandler's age but a LOT younger (13-14-ish). I'd guess that if the show ever says, the character will be called 19.  As for careers, absolutely she's more established - she's the chief medical person at Hilltop -- but Henry isn't a nobody kid; he's the chief mechanic at the Kingdom just not well enough trained for their needs so he stepped back to apprentice.  (Also, there's something weird going on at the Kingdom that implies that it's doing worse than Hilltop or Alexandria.)  I'd agree that they're at different enough stages that she'd be not interested in him but I still say they are close enough that it's a very natural interest for him.  Also, his reaction to seeing the situation was pretty naturally done.  

The actress is and looks young, but shes supposed to be in her twenties and mature.   How many 17 yr old boys are in relationships with women in their twenties? And especially in that ZA scenario, no woman is going to pick a boy over a man.

TPTB want to play this thing two ways with Enid , though, it seems, and that actress cannot carry it off. It's her first role, and it shows. She is going to be hilarious as Dr Enid.

[amazinglybored]

I think it’s a question of just how awful AMC is to work with and just what went on with Gimple. The eventual book that stems from this show is going to be spectacular.

 

If the show kills Gabriel, I swear that I won’t bring up their history with black people and that they’d be back down to one black man at a time. I’ll give them a pass if he’s gone. Henry is stupidly sheltered for a teenager in the apocalypse but one of the other teens is going to be a serial killer. The new people are half decent and half kill them. Negan is a blight on this show. The rest was actually good, which is the frustrating part with this show. The older characters moving the plot forward still works. They can still do horror and suspense. They can still lean on those established relationships and history. It’s the rest that keeps hurting the show.

 

Jesus went out like Oberyn. So fancy you knew he was going to die. RIP wasted potential.

Edited November 27, 2018 by amazinglybored

[AngelaHunter]

20 minutes ago, Butless said:

How many 17 yr old boys are in relationships with women in their twenties? And especially in that ZA scenario, no woman is going to pick a boy over a man.

I have vague memories of being 19 or 20, and I would never have looked at a boy in his teens, especially one like Henry who looks and acts about 12.

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Tara is the leader at Hilltop, which makes no sense. She has never shown any leadership skills.

She's never shown skills of any kind, unless sucking on Twizzlers and giving fist-bumps to one and all are skills.

[amazinglybored]

13 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Jesus really should have been something special.  If TPTB just took away one percent of the lines they gave to Nagen, and gave them to Jesus who knows how much better this show would be.  That really was the major problem.  Giving Nagen so much dialogue pretty much dried up screen time for most of the other characters like Jesus.

 

Yeah, I think Negan hurt the show in a lot of ways. He sucked to watch, his survival was predicated on the protagonists (and his own people) failing or refusing to kill him, he took screen time they could have used for established characters and he took time they could have used on new characters. I also wonder if some of the actor issues aren’t related to paying a lot for JDM and then panicking when nothing good came from their shiny new toy. Then the problems started snowballing.

 

God damn Negan became the priority.

[OoohMaggie]

30 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

Jesus went out like Oberyn. So fancy you knew he was going to die. RIP wasted potential.

Oberyn was arrogant and overconfident, Jesus was sloppy and careless, but wasted potential certainly.

[JackONeill]

45 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

She's never shown skills of any kind, unless sucking on Twizzlers and giving fist-bumps to one and all are skills.

1

Apparently, she had a certain skill with Denise.

[OoohMaggie]

N

6 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Apparently, she had a certain skill with Denise.

So ‘sucking on twizzlers’ and ‘fist bumping’ aren’t euphemisms then, I’ve led such a sheltered life 😇

[AngelaHunter]

53 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

Yeah, I think Negan hurt the show in a lot of ways.

He's also something I've never seen before: A Big Bad Villain who is utterly boring. Who ever heard of a tedious villain?

3 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

So ‘sucking on twizzlers’ and ‘fist bumping’ aren’t euphemisms then, I’ve led such a sheltered life 😇

They are so not euphemisms! Not in my world.

Edited November 27, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[peach]

50 minutes ago, amazinglybored said:

 his survival was predicated on the protagonists (and his own people) failing or refusing to kill him,

THIS is the worst part, for sure.  If he was still alive because he was wily or even just lucky, it wouldn't be so bad.  Instead he's alive because of a copious amount of nonsense, like nobody being able shoot anything but windows, or Rick hitting him with the wrong end of a bat, followed by an utterly unbelievable philosophical decision. 

The Governor remained alive by killing his own people and escaping into the wild, changing his identity, finding another group and taking it over to exact his revenge.  I know a lot of people didn't like that storyline (I did), but at least it was plausible.

[amazinglybored]

31 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Oberyn was arrogant and overconfident, Jesus was sloppy and careless, but wasted potential certainly.

 

Oberyn was most definitely sloppy because of his over confidence. His dicking around was sloppiness.

 

 

3 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

He's also something I've never seen before: A Big Bad Villain who is utterly boring. Who ever heard of a tedious villain?

 

Supernautral. But even that show didn’t fall in love with that tedious villain and make him a main character. They probably thought Negan would take the show to the next level and get some awards recognition. Oops. 

[AngelaHunter]

2 minutes ago, peach said:

  Instead he's alive because of a copious amount of nonsense, like nobody being able shoot anything but windows, or Rick hitting him with the wrong end of a bat, followed by an utterly unbelievable philosophical decision. 

Also, his own people, armed with automatic weapons, plotted but couldln't figure out how to kill the guy wielding a baseball bat. He's alive only because everyone around him were a bunch of bumbling idiots.

3 minutes ago, peach said:

The Governor remained alive by killing his own people and escaping into the wild, changing his identity, finding another group and taking it over to exact his revenge.  I know a lot of people didn't like that storyline (I did), but at least it was plausible

I liked it too. I liked it a lot because the Gov seemed like an actual human - depressed and filled with self-loathing -  being whose actions were, if not admirable, as least believable and not a silly, smirking, strutting cartoon, yelping about his amazing dick all the time to anyone in earshot and keeping a freakin' harem. 

[JackONeill]

12 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

They are so not euphemisms! Not in my world.

Nor in mine. But they are colorful in that respect. See what you learn?

[Ouisch]

Quote

1 hour ago, amazinglybored said:

 

Yeah, I think Negan hurt the show in a lot of ways. He sucked to watch, his survival was predicated on the protagonists (and his own people) failing or refusing to kill him, he took screen time they could have used for established characters and he took time they could have used on new characters. I also wonder if some of the actor issues aren’t related to paying a lot for JDM and then panicking when nothing good came from their shiny new toy. Then the problems started snowballing.

 

God damn Negan became the priority.

 

 

I remember when, for maybe all of Season 5, comic book fans could not wait for the introduction of Negan to the TV show. Then when he final.ly appeared, the ratings started to decline, and many comic book fans said that the TV Negan wasn't the same as the graphic novel version, etc etc. In any case, my point is that SO many fans eagerly anticipated the arrival of Negan and now most of those fans agree that Negan ain't all that and a bag o' chips and JDM's posturing just drags the plot to a standstill.

With that said, comic book fans have been likewise cheering for the arrival of the Whisperers since just after Negan arrived on the scene....I wonder if the insertion of this new threat will be likewise anticlimactic?

Edited November 27, 2018 by Ouisch

[amazinglybored]

1 minute ago, peach said:

THIS is the worst part, for sure.  If he was still alive because he was wily or even just lucky, it wouldn't be so bad.  Instead he's alive because of a copious amount of nonsense, like nobody being able shoot anything but windows, or Rick hitting him with the wrong end of a bat, followed by an utterly unbelievable philosophical decision. 

The Governor remained alive by killing his own people and escaping into the wild, changing his identity, finding another group and taking it over to exact his revenge.  I know a lot of people didn't like that storyline (I did), but at least it was plausible.

 

And it never made sense why one of his own people didn’t kill him. I know his rape victims had a plan, Dwight turned on him and Simon eventually wanted to take his place but none of them succeeded in killing him. Someone could have just shot, stabbed or hit him at any time over the years. Their system was terrible, the environment was toxic and he didn’t have a military protecting him. You can’t tell me someone he tortured, brutalized, raped or otherwise abused wouldn’t have snapped and gotten him during a monologue. The saviours would have a terrible turnover rate for people in charge because it was so shitty and inherently unstable. Negan was never shown as good enough as a leader to overcome that.

 

I just didn’t like the governor and found him grating but Negan makes him look better. The governor being in charge at least made some sense.

[mightysparrow]

5 hours ago, rab01 said:

I don't get why so many people are saying that Enid is too good for Henry to dream of having a chance with.  When they introduced her as Carl's love interest people here were calling her "the dog-faced girl" so when did she suddenly get put on a pedestal?  It makes total sense that a 16-year-old would have a crush on a slightly older teenager and it makes just as much sense that she'd already have a boyfriend. I hate Henry because he's "not-Carl" and I'm gonna resent Judith a lot for also playing a lot of "not-Carl" scenes but the interplay seemed perfectly reasonable to me.  

The "not-Carl" problem is, for me, the huge problem with the show. There are big chunks of storyline being put in the hands of replacement characters, rather than new stories for new characters.  The scene in the hut was just a f'ing replay of the Alexandrian teenagers and Carl.  Just rerun all of Henry's scenes with Carl in it - the Enid thing has a weight of missed chances to it, the walker ring-toss now has Carl thinking - how did we create another bunch of ASZhats?; the jail scene can get extra beats because Carl has earned the right to be treated like an adult even if he's just a teen ...  

And the not-Carl related problem of all the new cast entering and old-cast departures is not that they give time to new cast members.  The show does this every time.  We all complained when we got episodes devoted to Abe and his crew but on rewatch, Abe's backstory episode is one of my favorites.  The problem is that the show has wasted tons of character development time on TERRIBLE actors and/or characters lately.  Alana Masterson is a complete charisma black hole on this show.  Negan has been a show-killing misfire.   The actress who plays Rosita is almost inhumanly gorgeous but they've done nothing interesting with her ever. They spent a million years of screen time on various Saviors but did they keep ANY of the interesting ones around?  TPTB need to keep introducing new characters but they need to quickly realize which ones are clicking and which aren't ... 

I think the 'not-Carl' problem is a perfect way of putting it.  Losing Rick isn't as fatal as losing Carl is going to turn out to be.  The show could have survived losing Rick if Carl was around to take up the baton.

You are absolutely right about the teen scene being a replay of the Alexandrian teenage story.  I remember thinking 'I've seen this already' when Henry was getting drunk with his new pals.  I can't believe that AMC thinks the viewers are so stupid that we'll accept this Carl-Lite substitute who has absolutely no reason for being, other than to turn into walker-chow as quickly as possible.  Chandler might have had his heart broken but he will get the last laugh.   I'm sure that most of the people who slammed Chandler/Carl are longing for the good old days.  Chandler is DeNiro in comparison to this new kid. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by mightysparrow

[amazinglybored]

43 minutes ago, Ouisch said:

 

I remember when, for maybe all of Season 5, comic book fans could not wait for the introduction of Negan to the TV show. Then when he final.ly appeared, the ratings started to decline, and many comic book fans said that the TV Negan wasn't the same as the graphic novel version, etc etc. In any case, my point is that SO many fans eagerly anticipated the arrival of Negan and now most of those fans agree that Negan ain't all that and a bag o' chips and JDM's posturing just drags the plot to a standstill.

With that said, comic book fans have been likewise cheering for the arrival of the Whisperers since just after Negan arrived on the scene....I wonder if the insertion of this new threat will be likewise anticlimactic?

 

I think the Whisperers will work if they’re treated like the Wolves. Simple, beatable, limited information about them and killed in a timely fashion. Personally, I’ve found them creepy so far and the show hasn’t managed that in years. They try to go in depth and drag it out they’ll suck. 

 

The only antagonist this show was ever able to show a lot of and keep my interest was Shane. 

[Macbeth]

You know this is a zombie show when everyone resurrects except Jesus.

Too soon??

[Nashville]

25 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Anytime the word "sucking" is used, I tend to head down a certain "path".  A "path" that probably most people wouldn't tend travel. 

Don’t count on it.

 

STILL think Henry Rollins would’ve done a helluva lot better rendition of Negan.

[heisenberg]

20 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Don’t count on it.

 

STILL think Henry Rollins would’ve done a helluva lot better rendition of Negan.

Oh yeah!  Just one look at someone would have been worth 15 minutes of a JDM speech.  And he would have been closer to the Negan from the comics.

[Nashville]

18 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Oh yeah!  Just one look at someone would have been worth 15 minutes of a JDM speech.  And he would have been closer to the Negan from the comics.

#MonologueConservationMatters

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

  I thought people chewed Twizzlers (licorice), not suck them.

Not Tara. She sucks, in more ways than one.

 

58 minutes ago, Nashville said:

STILL think Henry Rollins would’ve done a helluva lot better rendition of Negan.

I looked him up although I've never seen him act, but just about anyone would be better than JDM, who just comes off as a not-overly bright bully and a big sleazebag, the kind of over-aged creep who gets drunk at bars and hits on disgusted and bored young women. So intimidating. Not. But it's not entirely his fault. He's the wrong actor for the role, and the marathon speeches and rambling and bragging took away any hint of foreboding or scariness he might have had.

[meep.meep]

So all the British members of the cast are leaving?

[lezlers]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:02 AM, Boofish said:

Rosita has been shown being romantic (according to my recollection) with the same amount of people as Rick - 3 (Abraham, Spencer and FPP). So does that also make Rick a slut?

Did I miss where Rosita was being called a slut?

[Boofish]

22 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Did I miss where Rosita was being called a slut?

Yes .. but it wasn't by me. 

[Token]

Clearly I'm still not paying attention to the show... have we seen Maggie & child since the time jump?  Have we seen Michonne Jr?

[ClareWalks]

I am confused by the few "FPP and Rosita have been so promiscuous" opinions in this thread. FPP has slept with what, two women since the apocalypse started? Six years apart? And Rosita has slept with two men that we've seen in 10 years? And even if they were bangin' everything in sight, so what? The world as they know it has ended. Live a little. 

[Butless]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

I looked him up although I've never seen him act, but just about anyone would be better than JDM, who just comes off as a not-overly bright bully and a big sleazebag, the kind of over-aged creep who gets drunk at bars and hits on disgusted and bored young women. So intimidating. Not. But it's not entirely his fault. He's the wrong actor for the role, and the marathon speeches and rambling and bragging took away any hint of foreboding or scariness he might have had.

Here's a consideration: maybe the character Negan actually sucks.  Most of the noise about this show has come from those comic book nerds who had a boner for Negan. But they have no taste and no intelligence, on the whole. Ive seen the Negan comic book character and it's stupid. So the core of this problem lies with Kirkman wanting to bring a lame-ass character into the TV show. Morgan was in a bad spot, with this role, and Id moooove to see where the direction of Negan came from. In other words, was it his own bad interpretation to make him into a  Andrew Dice Clay type, or was it from TPTB who directed him to be like that? When I think of certain things, like having a zoom in shot of him from a cherry picker, I have to believe the fault lies in the direction.

In the first episode of season 7,  he handles the menace well.  But theyve given him horrible dialogue throughout the show, also, in addition to  stupid plot armor, and no motivation or backstory. Horrible. "Shitting pants"? Just as a character from the books, he was annoying. That kind of grinning strutting crap isnt even interesting. Its a 3rd graders idea of a bad guy.  And how many times did these comic boook nerds trumpeting  abou t him  mention that he was a "badass"? Here's a novel thought, PTB;  maybe dont listen to those comic book nerds.  But those are the people probably kissing their asses  along with the stars at all the Walker cons, and they must love being worshipped,  being former nerds, themselves.

52 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So all the British members of the cast are leaving?

They dont want to be in a country that now considers them immigrants taking jobs away from Americans. I dont blame them one bit.

2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Oh yeah!  Just one look at someone would have been worth 15 minutes of a JDM speech.  And he would have been closer to the Negan from the comics.

Clearly youve never heard any of his long rants, which are legion. Hes also super short.

[rab01]

6 minutes ago, Butless said:

Here's a consideration: maybe the character Negan actually sucks.  Most of the noise about this show has come from those comic book nerds who had a boner for Negan. But they have no taste and no intelligence, on the whole. Ive seen the Negan comic book character and it's stupid. So the core of this problem lies with Kirkman wanting to bring a lame-ass character into the TV show. Morgan was in a bad spot, with this role, and Id moooove to see where the direction of Negan came from. In other words, was it his own bad interpretation to make him into a  Andrew Dice Clay type, or was it from TPTB who directed him to be like that? When I think of certain things, like having a zoom in shot of him from a cherry picker, I have to believe the fault lies in the direction.

I'll admit that I was looking forward to the Negan plotline (I read some of the comics after the show started) because I was tired of the lather-rinse-repeat of CDB wandering in the forest until they came across temporary safety, wrecked it and got back to wandering. I also thought that, if the show could turn the Governor - a much dumber and comic booky villain - into an interesting and somewhat realistic antagonist, then Negan had potential.  But, like I said in the spoiler threads back then, the show needed to drop the ludicrous parts of Kirkman's middle-school fantasies (like the harem).  The show somehow gave him even longer monologues, less brains, more compensatory displays of false machismo, and stronger plot-armor than he had in the comics.  Then they also drew out his arc over more time than in the comics and spent less time on the heroes than in the comics, making it all so much worse.

Tl, dr -- Gimple sucks and I think Kang actually deserves some credit and praise for trying to dig the show out of the mountain of manure that Gimple and Kirkman buried it in. 

[ClareWalks]

31 minutes ago, Butless said:

Most of the noise about this show has come from those comic book nerds who had a boner for Negan. But they have no taste and no intelligence, on the whole. Ive seen the Negan comic book character and it's stupid.

I actually love Negan in the comics BECAUSE it's kind of a stupid character. He provides comic relief. Which is why he doesn't fit in *at all* on this show, which is not at all funny. They changed Negan to be less funny and more "menacing" (big air quotes there) and it doesn't really work. Eugene is as close to comic relief as TWD show gets.

[Gobi]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Right. He should set his horny, sweaty little sights on a woman much older. There must be a few cougars still hanging around.

I believe it was, "You are in a place you don't belong." Whatever the hell that means.

To me, it sounded like "You don't belong in this world".

[amazinglybored]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

I actually love Negan in the comics BECAUSE it's kind of a stupid character. He provides comic relief. Which is why he doesn't fit in *at all* on this show, which is not at all funny. They changed Negan to be less funny and more "menacing" (big air quotes there) and it doesn't really work. Eugene is as close to comic relief as TWD show gets.

 

I haven’t read the comics but I think they could have made Negan funny. Lean into how pathetic he is and make his survival due to his obvious luck. Make his grasp on leadership extremely rickety. Something like that could have fit for CDB finding someone more incompetent than them but being thwarted by luck or their own screw ups. A desperate man with some terrible people around him and some assets would be dangerous. 

[Josette]

10 hours ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Am I mis-remembering or didn't the riders from Hilltop tell the group last week that they were going to let Hilltop know Michonne was coming?  Because I was completely unprepared for all that running and hiding when the group was spotted because I was sure they already knew they were on the way.  

They were headed to Alexandria, so Michonne told them to let her people know where she was headed.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Butless said:

Morgan was in a bad spot, with this role, and Id moooove to see where the direction of Negan came from. In other words, was it his own bad interpretation to make him into a  Andrew Dice Clay type, or was it from TPTB who directed him to be like that?

He said he studied the comics and used that Negan as his guide to the character, and of course I picture Bobby K standing there egging him on: "Oh, yeah, do that! Swagger! Mention your dick again! Superb!" But having seen a preview for a simply puke-tastic POS movie called "Rampage" (starring that noted thespian, The Rock Johnson) JDM's character IS Negan, so I'm starting to think this is his new persona of choice. I only hope he doesn't take it home with him. 

1 hour ago, Butless said:

was it his own bad interpretation to make him into a  Andrew Dice Clay type,

Andrew Dyce Clay? Oh, shit, oh my dear. Bwahaha! Maybe the love child of Andrew and the Fonz, except they're supposed to be comedian type characters, and Negan isn't even funny.

 

1 hour ago, rab01 said:

I'll admit that I was looking forward to the Negan plotline

I was too. I'd never seen JDM before (yes, it seems I DO live under a rock) and when he stepped out of the trailer for the first time, I thought, in spite of his less than intimidating build that had me fearful his pants were going end up around his ankles, maybe we were going to get an intriguing character, someone with real presence and a worthy adversary. Oh, TPTB - you just couldn't see that having him talk incessantly all friggin' night long and much of it inanities, with the "pee pee pants" and all that crap had anyone with a brain sick of him and bored stiff by ep's end. And I'm positive all the genital/bodily function-centered teenage boy talk is purely Kirkman, although not having read the comic books, I could be wrong.

[A-Lo]

I think we can all agree that this show has just gone on too long, can't we?  There are very few characters we care about.  I'm sure fans of the comics are ready and waiting for the Whisperers but where does that leave the rest of us?  We would've been better off to leave when Rick did.

[amazinglybored]

42 minutes ago, A-Lo said:

I think we can all agree that this show has just gone on too long, can't we?  There are very few characters we care about.  I'm sure fans of the comics are ready and waiting for the Whisperers but where does that leave the rest of us?  We would've been better off to leave when Rick did.

 

Sure. The reality is that it’s an old show and iirc after season 5 you’re counting down to an inevitable nosedive in quality for most shows. Even if you don’t consider a 6 episode 1st season a full season it’s an old show. Unfinished source material can’t be helping the situation either.

 

TWD is just weird because so much behind the scenes turmoil happened early and and saw people leaving. It’s ramped up again now to make everything worse. In another universe HBO makes TWD and avoids some of those problems because they aren’t comically cheap.

[Brooke0707]

Wait so, did I understand that right? Regular people are sewing dead faces on and pretending to be walkers? I don’t get it. What is the point of doing that?  Not to mention disgusting. Why don’t they just try being human murderers? What am I missing? Or are they walkers with two faces? That doesn’t make sense either. I’m confused!

To be fair, I couldn’t make out what Daryl said at the end. Maybe he explained it.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Brooke0707

[IDreamofJoaquin]

At least Spencer is still not on the show!

 

I honestly think Andrew Lincoln left after Chandler Riggs got the boot.  

If the Whispers have a territorial issue that's just lame.   They've lived there long enough now. It's their territory.  If anything the Whispers' are the ones who aren't where they belong.  Plus what a played out plot line. 

[OoohMaggie]

11 hours ago, Token said:

Clearly I'm still not paying attention to the show... have we seen Maggie & child since the time jump?  Have we seen Michonne Jr?

No, not since the 6 year jump,they are both somewhere ‘far away’.   Yes,we’ve seen  RJ with Michonne

Edited November 28, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[Butless]

8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

He said he studied the comics and used that Negan as his guide to the character, and of course I picture Bobby K standing there egging him on: "Oh, yeah, do that! Swagger! Mention your dick again! Superb!" But having seen a preview for a simply puke-tastic POS movie called "Rampage" (starring that noted thespian, The Rock Johnson) JDM's character IS Negan, so I'm starting to think this is his new persona of choice. I only hope he doesn't take it home with him. 

Andrew Dyce Clay? Oh, shit, oh my dear. Bwahaha! Maybe the love child of Andrew and the Fonz, except they're supposed to be comedian type characters, and Negan isn't even funny.

 

I was too. I'd never seen JDM before (yes, it seems I DO live under a rock) and when he stepped out of the trailer for the first time, I thought, in spite of his less than intimidating build that had me fearful his pants were going end up around his ankles, maybe we were going to get an intriguing character, someone with real presence and a worthy adversary. Oh, TPTB - you just couldn't see that having him talk incessantly all friggin' night long and much of it inanities, with the "pee pee pants" and all that crap had anyone with a brain sick of him and bored stiff by ep's end. And I'm positive all the genital/bodily function-centered teenage boy talk is purely Kirkman, although not having read the comic books, I could be wrong.

They tended to shoot him in a flashback 70s way, with the zoom-in cherry picker and all. Plus he does lean backwards...if they have him throw out his thumbs, ill spit my coffee out.

And I thought the exact same thing when I saw that Rampage trailer with him in it: typecast.  I also thought he was too cool for school in that Norman Reedus travel show, although I only saw one scene from it. Is he like this in real life, and thats how he walked in to the audition? Acting too cool for them?  Is it a persona he feels he has to hold up,in  part, now? The guy owns a farm, not a Manhattan loft. He clearly isnt comfortable around people. Every time Id seen him in the wild (ie, real life interviews), he seemed like a mild mannered, thoughtful older guy, who was surprisingly still goodlooking. I would have never pegged him as swaggering. Then again, the guys from a hog farm in Washington state. He could be a serial killer.

6 hours ago, Brooke0707 said:

Wait so, did I understand that right? Regular people are sewing dead faces on and pretending to be walkers? I don’t get it. What is the point of doing that?  Not to mention disgusting. Why don’t they just try being human murderers? What am I missing? Or are they walkers with two faces? That doesn’t make sense either. I’m confused!

To be fair, I couldn’t make out what Daryl said at the end. Maybe he explained it.

Im confused as to how they are finding walkers with intact faces that dont fall apart when they are taking them off. So are they sacrificing alive people and aging their faces? The point of guerilla warfare by blending into a herd of walkers is a limited device with severe drawbacks. The person is just going to get killed along with the walkers,like that one did.  Youre also exposing yourself to infection, blindness, death...like FPP. But Im sure TPTB have changed the rules back, already. Because they are Assholes.

 

3 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

At least Spencer is still not on the show!

 

I honestly think Andrew Lincoln left after Chandler Riggs got the boot.  

If the Whispers have a territorial issue that's just lame.   They've lived there long enough now. It's their territory.  If anything the Whispers' are the ones who aren't where they belong.  Plus what a played out plot line. 

He did not like it. Here's a kid who grew up next to him for years. And by doing what they did, they also took out his characters motivation, what they had all been working toward. As an actor, he knew well that greed was the bottom line in that decision. And Im sure he probably felt insulted with whatever bullshit Gimple was feeding him.

And/or he may have just grabbed at this as a way off a show that he no longer wanted to be on.  That Georgia heat really aged these actor, fast.

23 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

No, not since the 6 year jump,they are both somewhere ‘far away’.   Yes,we’ve seen  RJ with Michonne

Michonne naming her kid RJ is the most redneck thing Ive ever seen on this show, and that includes squirrel hunting and the Dixons.

[BellyLaughter]

3 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

At least Spencer is still not on the show!

 

I honestly think Andrew Lincoln left after Chandler Riggs got the boot.  

If the Whispers have a territorial issue that's just lame.   They've lived there long enough now. It's their territory.  If anything the Whispers' are the ones who aren't where they belong.  Plus what a played out plot line. 

Also I can’t help but wonder why they would even reveal themselves.... if they can exist undetected in and amongst the walkers why step out into the open and expose themselves to potential threats??!! 

Unnecessary and kinda stupid....

[OoohMaggie]

39 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

Unnecessary and kinda stupid....

That pretty much sums up my view of The Whisperers, I really hope there is something about them that will change that, the introduction was good but now what? I think the ‘Villain’ box is pretty much empty.

Edited November 28, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[IDreamofJoaquin]

50 minutes ago, Butless said:

And/or he may have just grabbed at this as a way off a show that he no longer wanted to be on.  That Georgia heat really aged these actor, fast.

I mean that's pretty much the consistent topic on Talking Dead. They all comment on the heat.   We visited the set in December.  I mean just film then, it was mild. 

[amazinglybored]

7 hours ago, Brooke0707 said:

Wait so, did I understand that right? Regular people are sewing dead faces on and pretending to be walkers? I don’t get it. What is the point of doing that?  Not to mention disgusting. Why don’t they just try being human murderers? What am I missing? Or are they walkers with two faces? That doesn’t make sense either. I’m confused!

To be fair, I couldn’t make out what Daryl said at the end. Maybe he explained it.

 

I’ll save everyone time and frustration. I’m sure they’re crazy people who dress up as walkers without it making sense and that’s without being bothered to read a wiki article on them. Just like the wolves and terminus were. The big thing that will piss people off is that them controlling and existing in the herds doesn’t make sense and that Eugene brought attention to the science of zombies again. You never bring attention to how little sense the zombies make in anything.

 

The walkers supposedly use their sense of smell to single out humans (never made sense, the human sense of smell is crap) so they must be wearing flesh that smells. Constantly wearing that would definitely make you sick and any small would would end in the fever. If they’re wearing some kind of cured suit then their scents should get them eaten unless they’re slathered in guts, which, again, illness risks. We saw how easily distracted the walkers get when they tried to move them from the quarry, I don’t see how they’ll reasonably explain them not getting distracted by things and wandering away.

 

18 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

That pretty much sums up my view of The Whisperers, I really hope there is something about them that will change that, the introduction was good but now what? I think the ‘Villain’ box is pretty much empty.

 

They need to get over the idea of big villains anyway. It’s never as good as they think it is and a post apocalyptic world is full of natural threats. I liked the disease arc in the prison and they’ve got nature on top of the walkers. I guess how to effectively kill the whisperers is the question. 

[LydiaMoon1]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the whole concept of the Whisperers is stupid. I mean, the thought of Walkers evolving was hella scary, but once you realize that the new threat is just some meat-suit-wearing weirdos? Please. I'd pull a Carol and carry lighter fluid and matches with me everywhere I went. How can you tell a Walker from a Whisperer? Easy. Walkers melt in place. Whisperers either holler and run around on fire or they stop, drop, and roll.

Edited November 28, 2018 by LydiaMoon1

[OoohMaggie]

3 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I mean just film then, it was mild. 

They claim that the reduction in daylight hours makes it uneconomical to do winter filming, hence no snowy Walkers, and we all know how much the people here love all those dark scenes! 😱

How early does it get dark in Winter GA

Edited November 28, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[walnutqueen]

12 hours ago, A-Lo said:

I think we can all agree that this show has just gone on too long, can't we? 

Nope.  I still look forward to it, albeit with a little less enthusiasm now that Carl and Rick are gone.