19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[JenCarroll]

I hate how they've appropriated the word courtship which, you know, already had a definition. It means wooing someone, asking them to pay attention, seeking the favor of their attention. It implies a power imbalance, as one person has the favor to give, and the other person tries to impress them so they'll give it. (The favor in this case being their favor.) It's not "dating with a purpose;" it's a solicitation.

My husband has been "courted" more than once by a company wanting him to come work for them. The metaphor works because everyone understands the company is trying to impress him so he'll do them the favor of coming to work there. (I mean, it's a common term in business, it goes on all the time.)

Unless we're talking about the animal kingdom, in which case yeah, there's a purpose all right! :-)

Edited May 21, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Happyfatchick]

I kinda don't get the courtship reference at all. Or calling it dating with a purpose. Dating is always with a purpose, no? I mean, I guess there's recreational dating - going out with someone just to be going out. But typically, dating is done with an eye to the future, right? Do I like him? Do we have things to say to each other? Is he pleasant? Does he have a sense of humor? Does he love his mom, or is he a mama's boy? Where does he view himself in general public? Is he a leader, a follower or a non-entity? Does he have a temper? Does he like kids? How does he feel about my siblings? What does he do in his spare time? Is he intelligent? Does he smell funny? Does he have a goat for a pet? How does he feel about dogs? How does he feel about MY dog? Why does my dog show his teeth every time my date comes around? How does he treat me when we're alone? Does he belittle me in front of his friends? And on and on.

I didn't have a "list" (should have!) but dating (courting...WHATEVER!) is the chance to know someone. I guess in my mind, dating is where you learn answers about is person while you're on a lighter level. Courting is when you agree to focus in on THAT person and get serious about whether they are THE life partner for you.

So in MY mind, the Duggs skip the fun dating stuff where you laugh until you pee yourself about something completely silly, or check your phone 20 times an hour - just in case. They skip the lighthearted getting-to-know a person phase and go straight for the making a list and checkin' it twice. Courtship for them is engagement without a ring but WITH someone else watching your every move. I just feel like they hardly know each other when they get married. How weird WEIRD WEIRD would that BE, the honeymoon??? SURE you love him, honey! You've never been alone in a room with him EVER, and now (when you should be dating WITHOUT a sibling sitting between you) you get naked.

I mostly zoomed thru the show the other night (because I was looking for Josie singing). I paused for some reason when Ben was checking off their official "dates" and using his FINGERS. SERIOUSLY DUDE??? You can COUNT the times you had actual DATES?

And what is the deal that they can't make it through the wedding day without seeing each other. I watched Jill's wedding and she not only saw Derick, she had a whole planned event outside where she walked to him in her dress. What??? So I thought Jessa did better, but even without watching her actual wedding, I saw somewhere that she and Ben were together until the actual ceremony. And on this week's recap of romance (I feel so cynical when I gag over that), Josh and Anna couldn't go all day either. What IZZZZZZZ that??? Are they afraid the courted partner will escape if they don't keep a tight leash?

And since I'm griping anyway, I've p seen Dericks awful dumb and dumber hair lately, and then Ben with his JimmyCarter/Ted Koppal doo in the grocery. What has happened? Jill and Jessa were both all about "fixing" those guys heads before they married. And Ben, at least, was cute. suddenly they both look awful. What's up with that?

[AmyFarrahFowler]

I hate how the Duggars call courting dating with a purpose. Isn't the purpose of dating someone to get to know them? Courting is basically dating minus the physical stuff.

 

I think of it as dating on speed dial because their relationships progress so quickly.

[ginger90]

Their use of "dating with a purpose", imo, is their way of saying others do it all wrong. They do everything correctly, don't you know!

[Happyfatchick]

Poor ginger90. You spell your name all wrong. Hee!

[JenCarroll]

Poor ginger90. You spell your name all wrong. Hee!

But you're completely right about the Duggars. ;-)

[Sadie Louise]

Well I'm wondering what everyone is thinking about Josuah Duggar now that he's had to step down from his big DC job? Molesting girls and his sisters? Wondered how long it would be before a scandal would happen? Nothing surprises me with this weird family.....

[JenCarroll]

Check the Josh and Anna thread. No shortage of opinions there.

[TessHarding2]

After reading some things in the Josh thread, I had to look up the Michael Pearl Method.  I had a very emotional reaction to it as I was reading.  Beating and whipping children into submission. 

 

Not that we'd know (or at least I don't)...do you think they still do that or was it done when they first had children and took the word of their church and that Pearl bozo?  Tell me they do not do that to Josie.

[Muffyn]

"One of these candidates is vermin with a sneering grin, the other is a possum...."

 

But seriously, I'm kind of surprised a narcissist like Michelle lets her husband put her down. She must put up with it because letting Jim Bob think he's in control lets her actually be the one calling the shots. There's no way she could tolerate it otherwise.

This brings to mind about ten years ago when one local candidate shot and killed another local candidate a few weeks before the election.  It was too late to add anyone to the ballot so the choice was between the dead guy and a murderer.  The dead guy won.  In a choice between Jim Bob and a dead guy, I would be rushing to the polls to vote for the dead guy.  I've always preferred articulate candidates.  Compared to Jim Bob, a dead guy, a possum or even a sack of potatoes would be a good choice. 

[mynextmistake]

I would've voted for the possum.

I would have *campaigned* for the possum.

Our slogan would have been "this possum ain't playing."

Edited May 23, 2015 by mynextmistake

[DoctorWhovian]

How about that "forgiveness from god" trumps actual punishment for crimes?

[BitterApple]

After reading some things in the Josh thread, I had to look up the Michael Pearl Method. I had a very emotional reaction to it as I was reading. Beating and whipping children into submission.

Not that we'd know (or at least I don't)...do you think they still do that or was it done when they first had children and took the word of their church and that Pearl bozo? Tell me they do not do that to Josie.

I think it was used for the older set of kids up until Michelle decided mothering wasn't her thing and handed off child - rearing duties to her daughters. The younger children have pretty much gone Lord of the Flies. There's no adults who care about or monitor what they do.

[TessHarding2]

Thank you.  I'm sorry it had to happen at all but at least it seems like it stopped.  Interesting what you said about "mothering" and "child rearing".  Michelle sure is a breeder but from what they show on tv she's more interested in not being bothered by little kids and perfecting her upward head angle towards Jim Bob.

[Fuzzysox]

Can we purpose this thread for a while to talk about our hate we feel when they use words incorrectly!?. It might keep our minds off what is going on around us.

 

The word I hate that the Duggars use the most is defraud. WTF??? Shouldn't they use the word  tempt/tempted, as in if you wear clothes too tight you might tempt a man?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[JenCarroll]

Yeah, but defraud is one of their code words. It has a special, in-group meaning.

[Julia]

Back when I was waiting tables, back in the long ago mists of the eighties, there was a man who would drop by the place we hung out after work because he was going out with one of the waitresses. Later on, I was introduced to him by a friend of a friend, and discovered that he was married, had two kids, was an elder at his church and a big donor to the shiny new Moral Majority.

So, I asked him about that, one time, why he wanted new rules for society when he wasn't obeying the ones we already had. I can only guess he answered me because as a cradle Catholic I was going to hell anyway, but he told me that when everybody else was forced to act right there wouldn't be anyone left for him to sin with. He actually looked pretty sad about it, but he was so sure that he wasn't up to resisting temptation that his only option was to make all the temptation go away.

The way the Gothard followers deal with the subject of attraction reminds me of that man. They have to reconcile themselves as the ultimate unquestioned moral authorities and flawed humans who don't meet their own moral standards, so it has to be the objects of their desire at fault for being too desirable. It's not their lack of moral fortitude that's shameful, it's the female body. So, defraud.

It's sad. There are cultures of female modesty which some women find empowering, because they feel presenting themselves publicly in a non-body focused way pulls focus to their minds and their hearts. Then there's this.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Julia

[becca3891]

Can we purpose this thread for a while to talk about our hate we feel when they use words incorrectly!?. It might keep our minds off what is going on around us.

 

The word I hate that the Duggars use the most is defraud. WTF??? Shouldn't they use the word  tempt/tempted, as in if you wear clothes too tight you might tempt a man?

I know I posted about this in the Josh and Anna thread, but yes, their use of defraud is not just annoying, but infuriating, because what it actually means is to steal what isn't yours by deceit. They are saying that even though the god they believe in is the one who created the female body to be so alluring, women are actively and deceptively stealing men's purity when they fail to live up to arbitrary modesty standards. 

[Churchhoney]

I know I posted about this in the Josh and Anna thread, but yes, their use of defraud is not just annoying, but infuriating, because what it actually means is to steal what isn't yours by deceit. They are saying that even though the god they believe in is the one who created the female body to be so alluring, women are actively and deceptively stealing men's purity when they fail to live up to arbitrary modesty standards. 

 

Yes. And maybe the most infuriating thing is that the whole phenomenon came from Gothard -- one guy who apparently couldn't get enough girls in his youth, so he invented a whole philosophy and vocabulary that would lead thousands of idiots like J and M to view walking-around-while-having-visible-female-skin as the worst of sins. ....

 

And he was so successful enlisting other fearful, sexually frustrated, misogynistic control freaks into his defrauding cause that he became a power figure who in the end got lots of girls, all pretty teenagers even as he got older and uglier and more of a jerk.

 

And since he has a foot fetish he engineered the philosophy so that the otherwise covered up girls and women and long-locked teenagers would still walk around winter and summer wiggling their bare toes for his delectation. And deluded idiots like Michelle would defend that practice because "Feet aren't sexual!"

[dillpickles]

Yes. And maybe the most infuriating thing is that the whole phenomenon came from Gothard -- one guy who apparently couldn't get enough girls in his youth, so he invented a whole philosophy and vocabulary that would lead thousands of idiots like J and M to view walking-around-while-having-visible-female-skin as the worst of sins. ....

And he was so successful enlisting other fearful, sexually frustrated, misogynistic control freaks into his defrauding cause that he became a power figure who in the end got lots of girls, all pretty teenagers even as he got older and uglier and more of a jerk.

And since he has a foot fetish he engineered the philosophy so that the otherwise covered up girls and women and long-locked teenagers would still walk around winter and summer wiggling their bare toes for his delectation. And deluded idiots like Michelle would defend that practice because "Feet aren't sexual!"

Don't forget his hair fetish!

[Abstract]

I wish I had saved the episodes that were on my DVR so I could watch them again and make a list of quotes that sound so much worse now that we know the truth.

[JenCarroll]

Can we purpose this thread for a while to talk about our hate we feel when they use words incorrectly!?. It might keep our minds off what is going on around us.

 

The word I hate that the Duggars use the most is defraud. WTF??? Shouldn't they use the word  tempt/tempted, as in if you wear clothes too tight you might tempt a man?

Sorry, we can only purpose to share about their incorrect word use. ;-)

[NikSac]

And since he has a foot fetish he engineered the philosophy so that the otherwise covered up girls and women and long-locked teenagers would still walk around winter and summer wiggling their bare toes for his delectation. And deluded idiots like Michelle would defend that practice because "Feet aren't sexual!"

 

Oh wow. How did I never catch that was the likely explanation for the "feet aren't sexual" attitude?  Yuck.

[Churchhoney]

Oh wow. How did I never catch that was the likely explanation for the "feet aren't sexual" attitude?  Yuck.

 

Have you ever read any accounts on Recovering Grace or elsewhere of teenage girls' awful experiences trapped in cars with Gothard in his stocking feet and them in their flip flops? If not, and you'd REALLY like to feel sick, take a look at some of those. ....

 

And he STILL insists that none of it was sexual, according to the last statements I remember.

 

 

 

ETA: I have nothing against fetishes in general or foot fetishes in particular. But don't use them to surreptitiously corral unwitting people into fulfilling your sexual desires. And then lie about it. yeesh.  (Now that I think about it, I guess Josh as a young teen going after the unconscious was pretty much doing it the Gothard way. more yuck.)

Edited May 28, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Bella]

I knew a foot fetishist long ago. He was a shoe salesman and got to handle women's feet every day. Creepy? Reasonable? Clever? All of the above? At least he wasn't making up a fake religion and going after young teenagers in cars.

 

Still waiting for the silence to break at the Duggar compound. This is not going to blow over, and it's not going to go in the direction Big Jim wants. 

[NikSac]

Have you ever read any accounts on Recovering Grace or elsewhere of teenage girls' awful experiences trapped in cars with Gothard in his stocking feet and them in their flip flops? If not, and you'd REALLY like to feel sick, take a look at some of those. ....

 

And he STILL insists that none of it was sexual, according to the last statements I remember.

 

Ewww. No, haven't read those. I'll see if I can stomach them. 

[becca3891]

I knew a foot fetishist long ago. He was a shoe salesman and got to handle women's feet every day. Creepy? Reasonable? Clever? All of the above? At least he wasn't making up a fake religion and going after young teenagers in cars.

 

Still waiting for the silence to break at the Duggar compound. This is not going to blow over, and it's not going to go in the direction Big Jim wants. 

Ha. Still not as creepy as Bill. At least a woman is giving her consent to a shoe salesman to touch her feet, and isn't in a position like Gothard's "special girls" where they're afraid to speak up because of brainwashing and Bill being in authority over them. I'm sure there are men who have become gynecologists for the same reason as your foot fetishist acquaintance, and since we don't have the thought police, as long as they're conducting themselves professionally, there's not a lot to complain about, I guess.

 

I wonder if Mullet is that clueless that there are fetishes for every part of the body, or if she's that drunk on the Koolaid, that only "between neck and feet," as one of the girls in the police report said, are the problem areas. For goodness' sake, there are tons of fetishists who must have loved Jill's tight shirts stretched across her big pregnant belly, with navel outlined. Her breasts and butt were pretty defined at times, too, getting back to the more conventional body parts that can defraud. ;) And this is exactly why the Taliban instituted the burqa. Otherwise, us evil women will just never stop defrauding!

[JenCarroll]

Thanks, you just caused me to have a deeply unpleasant thought about proctologists...

;-)

[becca3891]

Thanks, you just caused me to have a deeply unpleasant thought about proctologists...

;-)

Ha! My apologies -- I will pass you the brain bleach, just as soon as I finish using it myself, as I am now dealing with thoughts of Boob unwittingly defrauding his proctologist. Help me!!!

[JenCarroll]

I'll get back to you as soon as I finish vomiting... Please, please, let's stop this discussion!!

[Boton]

The word I hate that the Duggars use the most is defraud. WTF??? Shouldn't they use the word  tempt/tempted, as in if you wear clothes too tight you might tempt a man?

 

 

I know I posted about this in the Josh and Anna thread, but yes, their use of defraud is not just annoying, but infuriating, because what it actually means is to steal what isn't yours by deceit. 

 

Yes, agreed, that's what gets me about "defraud."  The word implies reneging on a contractual offer of something.  So, I want to sell my car, but I'm defrauding potential buyers if I don't disclose the fact that it was in a flood.

 

It's particularly troublesome in this context because it implies that a woman's presence in society constitutes an implied offer to provide sexual interaction if she shows certain parts of her body, and that withdrawing that offer would be defrauding the men around her who might want to take advantage of the offer.  So, if I go out showing my knees, I'm implicitly telling the men around me that they may use my body for anything ranging from sexual fantasy to actual intercourse, and to later tell them that I won't allow that would be breaking an implied promise of access. The problem is not whether or not women wish to adhere to "modest" standards but that they are viewed as making themselves sexually available by their very existence.

[Happyfatchick]

Purposed to. Defraud. Nike. Blessings. Special blessings. Courting. Dating with a purpose. Talking(g). Walking(g). Singing(g). Miracle. Countenance.

I've never watched a full episode of this show - the closest I got was watching Jill completely miss derricks face when they were supposed to kiss, and Jessa and Ben skip kissing altogether. I watched some of the Nepal visit. Very limited exposure, yet I heard all these words. What am I missing? The cycle of memorized words drives me absolutely crazy. That, and M/JB dressing alike. Oh, the wholehearted spouse gazing. I don't think Jill has perfected that one yet, but there's still time.

I purpose to keep the word cycle going. Somebody copy my words and add some more. It's not a long list, this ought to be pretty easy.

[Churchhoney]

Purposed to. Defraud. Nike. Blessings. Special blessings. Courting. Dating with a purpose. Talking(g). Walking(g). Singing(g). Miracle. Countenance.

 

Amazing. Sweet. Season of Life. Miracle. Hey Hey Hey.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Happyfatchick]

Amazing. Sweet. Season of Life. Miracle. Hey Hey Hey.

there's another word besides amazing - I can't think of it.

I did remember JB's little segment saying I-tell-you-what.

[Churchhoney]

there's another word besides amazing - I can't think of it.

I did remember JB's little segment saying I-tell-you-what.

 

The scary thing is that I've watched the show about the same amount that you have. And yet we've heard each of these words (and a few more that I cant' recall either at the moment) many many times. .... Imagine how many times they've said them in the umpty-ump seasons they've been on tv. I wonder if this is really the way they talk in real life?

[RazzleberryPie]

The phrase "catching a baby" in terms of conception GETS ON MY NERVES. "Catching a baby" is a very old-fashioned term for delivering a baby. That makes sense. The mother gives birth, and the doctor/midwife/etc "catches" the baby as it leaves its mother. That especially makes sense when women deliver in birthing chairs where the baby does 'fall out' a little more than on a bed.

 

Michelle using "catching a baby" as a term for conceiving, making a baby, getting pregnant, is stupid. Her egg might even 'catch' or 'grab' a sperm, but her womb is not catching a baby. 

[ginger90]

Surreal ............

[Happyfatchick]

The scary thing is that I've watched the show about the same amount that you have. And yet we've heard each of these words (and a few more that I cant' recall either at the moment) many many times. .... Imagine how many times they've said them in the umpty-ump seasons they've been on tv. I wonder if this is really the way they talk in real life?

. I kinda think so. And isn't that just skewed? I cannot IMAGINE my family at dinner talking like that. But, we're a whole different ball'o wax.

[allonsyalice]

"Precious" is another word the Duggars overuse.

[DangerousMinds]

Totally.

[mynextmistake]

I purposed to modestly court my amazing husband because God laid it on my heart. Miracle nike cycle. Totally.

[CofCinci]

Their lack of insight.

[MarysWetBar]

The phrase "catching a baby" in terms of conception GETS ON MY NERVES. "Catching a baby" is a very old-fashioned term for delivering a baby. That makes sense. The mother gives birth, and the doctor/midwife/etc "catches" the baby as it leaves its mother. That especially makes sense when women deliver in birthing chairs where the baby does 'fall out' a little more than on a bed.

Michelle using "catching a baby" as a term for conceiving, making a baby, getting pregnant, is stupid. Her egg might even 'catch' or 'grab' a sperm, but her womb is not catching a baby.

That ole clowncar hasn't latched tightly to anything in about twenty years.

[Sadie Louise]

Ok so I watched the Kelly files last night! Shame on me... Of course the Duggettes were on defending Josh and theirselves... What are they thinking? They are still in total denial about the whole molestation thing. And Mechelle looking at Jim boob like was I supposed to say that! It was so scripted and rehearsed. Bunch of lieing people period. Now their saying everyone got counceling? Really that's not what reports stated. Mechelle tried so hard to squeeze out a tear here and there. It was total deception her eyes all big and bugged out like she was trying to get her self across by her eyes. All I saw was deceit and lies and total coverup. And the stupid baby voice still, can't you ever get mad Mechelle! Can't you ever show real emotion? Maybe too many tranquilizers? Did anyone else lower theirselves to watch this reallity lie! Yuk! Yuk!

[AmyFarrahFowler]

Her fake ass crying/whimpering sent me over the edge. The pitch of her voice was driving my dog crazy.

[Jamiesmum]

Her fake ass crying/whimpering sent me over the edge. The pitch of her voice was driving my dog crazy.

My dog sat up when she did that full on, try to squeeze the tears out wale. He did the head tilt, looked at me, then got up from his bed and went behind the lounge to get away from the noise. Smart dog.

[louannems]

It would take me a good year or two to write down everything that annoys me about these folks ...

Instead I'll just mention the main thing that has been bugging the crap out me since Derick Dillard arrived on the scene. When Jill and Derick are sitting side by side or standing side by side and she is facing the camera ... he stares down and the side/top of her head with this very odd look on his face. He does it ALL. THE. TIME. He can't see her face so he just glares at her hair like it's a home for wayward and captivating spiders.

I don't know why it's bothersome but oh oh oh how it is.

[louannems]

I have always felt creeped out the way Mitchell and Anna stare up adoringly at their talking husbands. They will hold the stare for minutes if need be. Mitchell stared open mouthed at JimBob for so long during the interview that she nearly fell off her chair. Today, I watched A Duggar Christmas Tour. While Ben was explaining the true meaning of Christmas, Jessa did the stare up and don't blink thing. Are they taught this?

[louannems]

Amazing. Sweet. Season of Life. Miracle. Hey Hey Hey.

Laid on my heart. Tender heart. Soft heart.

[BatmanBeatles]

I have always felt creeped out the way Mitchell and Anna stare up adoringly at their talking husbands. They will hold the stare for minutes if need be. Mitchell stared open mouthed at JimBob for so long during the interview that she nearly fell off her chair. Today, I watched A Duggar Christmas Tour. While Ben was explaining the true meaning of Christmas, Jessa did the stare up and don't blink thing.Are they taught this?

I believe so. Didn't Michelle post a list of admonitions that included staring adoringly at your husband every time he speaks?