19 Things I Hate About You: How the Duggars Infuriate

[PecanSandie]

It's interesting to me that the Duggar's and the Gil Bates family are so quick to scream about purity and their daughters always being chaperoned, but when their cult leader Bill Gothard was exposed for taking under age girls in his office late at night ALONE and fondling them with his feet and legs, groping them, front hugging them and holding them tight to his body while he stroked their hair, they stayed quite and continued to put a stamp of approval on the old molester.

[Sundaymorning]

It's interesting to me that the Duggar's and the Gil Bates family are so quick to scream about purity and their daughters always being chaperoned, but when their cult leader Bill Gothard was exposed for taking under age girls in his office late at night ALONE and fondling them with his feet and legs, groping them, front hugging them and holding them tight to his body while he stroked their hair, they stayed quite and continued to put a stamp of approval on the old molester.

I don't understand that either.

 

Also, why didn't anyone step up when Gothard did that in first place?! I'm pretty sure it goes against their "rules" that young girls are alone in a room with a man who isn't their father or their brother. My parents, who aren't in a cult, would have never let me stay alone in an office with a old man for "counseling"! And I would never let my children do that either. How naive can you be? This goes to show how brainwashed these ATI  people truly are, that they think Gothard can do no wrong and let him break all his own rules when it comes to those poor girls.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Sundaymorning

[NikSac]

I don't understand that either.

 

Also, why didn't anyone step up when Gothard did that in first place?! I'm pretty sure it goes against their "rules" that young girls are alone in a room with a man who isn't their father or their brother. My parents, who aren't in a cult, would have never let me stay alone in an office with a old man for "counseling"! And I would never let my children do that either. How naive can you be? This goes to show how brainwashed these ATI  people truly are, that they think Gothard can do no wrong and let him break all his own rules when it comes to those poor girls.

 

Totally agree. Their own Dad can't even hug them without breaking the rules, but sending them alone into a room with a male non-relative is a-ok? I don't get it. I feel so bad for those girls who were probably confused already - I'm thinking now they've got to be beyond confused.

 

ETA: just to be clear I don't remember it being reported that this happened to any of the Duggar girls, just speaking generally on the topic of their beliefs and things that bug me.

Edited July 20, 2014 by NikSac

[merylinkid]

He who makes the Rules gets to break them.   Besides they probably blamed the girls for it happening.   Don't they believe it is up to the woman not to inflame the man?  Remember, Michelle is so self-centered about her own looks that she believed she caused a neighbor's divorce just by mowing the lawn in her bikini.   So she at least would easily believe that the girl did something to tempt Gothard who was really realy really sorry after it happened (then kept doing it).

[mbutterfly]

He who makes the Rules gets to break them.   Besides they probably blamed the girls for it happening.   Don't they believe it is up to the woman not to inflame the man?  Remember, Michelle is so self-centered about her own looks that she believed she caused a neighbor's divorce just by mowing the lawn in her bikini.   So she at least would easily believe that the girl did something to tempt Gothard who was really realy really sorry after it happened (then kept doing it).

One would think if a man were repeated inflamed one might look at the man. I guess they don't think that way. 

[Almost 3000]

Reports on Gothard's brother, Steve who headed up the Northwoods property in Watersmeet, Michigan, go back to 1976. At that time Bill chose to ignore staff reports.

“Steve’s sexual ‘domination’ over the secretaries and Bill’s avoidance of the problem.” [Los Angeles Times, October 4, 1980]

 

There's a history of abuse reported by Recovering Grace here: 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/the-scandal-1980/

The Duggars, Bates and the rest of the followers should have been aware that there was an on-going problem under the umbrella of this organization and in particular the family that sits at its head. This gets on my nerves BIG time and always colors anything I see on TV about the Duggar or Bates families.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Almost 3000

[PecanSandie]

Jim Bob knew for sure about Gothard's molesting because a reporter asked him about it on the girls book tour. Jim Bob told the reporter that they didn't follow men, only Jesus. Then within just a few weeks of him trying to lead people to believe the Duggars DON"T follow Gothard, he and Michelle were the keynote speakers at Bill Gothard's ATI homeschool convention in Big Sandy.

Gil Bates is on Gothard's board of directors so Gil for sure has known for quite sometime about Gothard's actions toward the underage young girls. The goog people at Recovering Grace have been reaching out to the board for quite sometime now.

The great thing about Recovering Grace is that it isn't just some lone disgruntled ex-employee, it's about 30 different people who have been involved/eyewitnesses to the Gothard scam over the course of almost 35 years at least. Some of the individuals tried to sound the warning in the early years (pre internet) and of course some are from these later years.

[Ivy26]

What gets me about the Duggars?  The media blackout.

 

(Not getting into politics here, just stating instances)   Michelle Bachmann was asked if she was President if she could still be submissive to her husband.  Ann Romney was asked about her beliefs on the view (Whoopi assumed both Mormons and Quakers were pacifists).  It was thrown around if Hillary Clinton could run for President and be a grandmother. Kirk Cameron is gently mocked in the media and seen as a kook.  Inane stuff to be sure, but it still goes to the heart of belief systems. 

Why not the same for the Duggars?

They could be asking these people loads of questions about equality, courtship, why no college graduates, kids in their 20s waiting for a mate picked out by Daddy, the Gothard relationship.  What do we get instead?  "Gosh, what do your grocery bills look like?  Packing for 20 people?!  Goodness gracious!"  Even Anderson Cooper softballed the interview.  Come on, WTF!  I heard a rumor years ago about an Oprah interview that was never shown (I'm open to correction here, guys.) where Oprah offered all of the kids, especially the girls, college scholarships and was turned down.  We know gory details about Kim Kardashian's kid but where is Dirt for Duggars?  What hold do they have on the media?  Surely TLC isn't that big of a corporation, is it?

[merylinkid]

Because the Duggars only allow softball interviews.   The reporters have to stick to the agreed upon rules if they ever want to interview anyone again.   Break the rules to zing the Duggars and President Obama won't do an interview out of fear of the same thing happening.   

 

Now why someone who was once friends with the family and is no longer friends doesn't do a tell all I don't know.

[PecanSandie]

"We know gory details about Kim Kardashian's kid but where is Dirt for Duggars? What hold do they have on the media? Surely TLC isn't that big of a corporation, is it?"

As the president of Discovery/TLC (Eileen O'Neil) once famously remarked, "it's hard to walk away from the big numbers?"

The Duggars make a lot of money for TLC.

[Ivy26]

Yeah, it makes sense.  Still....TMZ could get away with it :-p

[MrMattyMatt]

The Duggars themselves are very tight-lipped, but I agree that's it's odd that someone, somewhere hasn't come out with tons of "inside" information.  Some of the online gossip sites have tried to sensationalize a few of the Duggar stories, but there is usually nothing new in them.   Hopefully now that the girls are a-courtin' and different families come into the mix, we'll get some real details of what goes on in the compound soon...

[Absolom]

There has never been any concrete verification the Oprah rumor.

[PecanSandie]

I think the Oprah thing is just a rumor. I can't see her giving someone who is already rich a college scholarship x19. But speaking of scholarships, kudos to Oprah for all the scholarships she DOES give! 

[methinkstoomuch]

Just discovered what I think are 2 new "Kid Farm" episodes.

[Almost 3000]

#7 is the last one on YouTube and its been there for awhile. They're pretty funny and tick many of the absurd Duggar buttons.

[Marigny]

I don't understand that either.

 

Also, why didn't anyone step up when Gothard did that in first place?! I'm pretty sure it goes against their "rules" that young girls are alone in a room with a man who isn't their father or their brother. My parents, who aren't in a cult, would have never let me stay alone in an office with a old man for "counseling"! And I would never let my children do that either. How naive can you be? This goes to show how brainwashed these ATI  people truly are, that they think Gothard can do no wrong and let him break all his own rules when it comes to those poor girls.

For the same reasons that Warren Jeffs was able to get away with all of his abuse for so long. Despite was JB says about following Jesus, they deify the "prophet" - in this case, Gothard - and are bought into the idea that he is harkening unto the voice of the God that they serve. If only they would measure his words and deeds by the text that is supposed to be the foundation of their faith (the Bible, not Wisdom Books), they would quickly realize that most of it doesn't line up in any way, shape or form.

[mbutterfly]

The word co-redemptix was new to me so I looked it up. Apparently during the Middle Ages this idea was proposed by some Franciscans. It never, ever, was Catholic doctrine and disappeared as an expression still during the Middle Ages. The concept seems to have been simply that Mary's role was her free consent to give life to the Redeemer. I'm not certain how some religious sects in America latched onto this concept though. Odd. 

[PecanSandie]

For the same reasons that Warren Jeffs was able to get away with all of his abuse for so long. Despite was JB says about following Jesus, they deify the "prophet" - in this case, Gothard - and are bought into the idea that he is harkening unto the voice of the God that they serve. If only they would measure his words and deeds by the text that is supposed to be the foundation of their faith (the Bible, not Wisdom Books), they would quickly realize that most of it doesn't line up in any way, shape or form.

 

Excellent post! One thing that has helped me in understanding just how the Duggar's and other seemingly normal people could get sucked into Gothardism is the website at Recovering Grace. They use Gothard's own materials to show where he will take a part of a verse out of context to make it appear to agree with his thought on a matter.

 

It's probably no accident at all that Gothard spends so much time and effort on taking these people OUT of the Bible and into the books that he wrote and sells, rather than encouraging them to look to the whole of Scripture as their foundation.

 

Once you get sucked into the cult and the people in the cult become your peers, (because you are taught that to fellowship with other believers who don't share your standards is dangerous), it becomes extremely hard to see clearly. You are always striving to follow Gothards rules the best and get the praise and be bragged on among others in the cult. And then when you start to mentally question things, you become very afraid of 1. being judged by your peers and 2. worried that Gothard is right and if you step out from under his umbrella of authority Satan is free to attack you.

 

Within the group, the murmuring and gossip is horrible, and people who do struggle in some fashion are held up as example of what happens to people who don't "do right." 

 

The pressure on the Duggars is immense because not only do they have to do everything right according to Gothard within the group, they also have to do everything right outside the group because of their national audience. They can't afford failure. Hence the  high parental controls on their kids as far as being allowed in public without a partner and being allowed to find their own mates.

[Ljohnson1987]

I have thought since the beginning of the show that J'Chelle needs some real therapy. She is addicted to pregnancy and babies. I wonder how she just passes them off to her kids when they're done weaning. J'Chelle would make an interesting case study for a psychologist. I wonder if any of the Duggars believe in real mental health. Probably not.

[Oldernowiser]

It finally occurred to me why Clown Car/Jim Boob really majorly piss me off...they aren't real parents. Real parents constantly worry about their kids. They worry whether they're raising them right, whether they're getting enough attention or too much attention, enough education or too much education, whether they're happy, or depressed, or just going through a phase...in short, they worry. They worry because they adore their children and actually give a good goddamn if those children turn out as happy, stable, productive adults.

If either one of the Duggar parents has EVER had an honest moment in which they worried whether being one of a litter of a thousand or being in the public eye so much was a problem for any of their kids--I've never heard about it. In their world, everything's golden because God said so and that's why He keeps sending "blessings" and that's enough for them.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Oldernowiser

[Marigny]

Something tells me that in 20 years there will be a scathing documentary on Netflix uncovering all of JB & Mullet's BS and how they've screwed up their kids. If we go by Keller stats, at least 5 Duggars will defect and they will be the ones writing the tell alls. 

[Growsonwalls]

I know this is a small thing but J'chelle's helium baby voice. She's a 40 something year old woman, I don't know why she affects the voice of a 7 year old girl, complete with the blank, "innocent" smile. 

[flyingdi]

I know the Duggars are against college, which I do not quite understand.  My question is have they  ever gave an opinion on the military?  Like if one of their sons, or God forbid, daughters wanted to join the military?

[may2]

Way too much swearing in the military and the boys would have access to women.

[bigskygirl]

Plus, they would have to get up early in the morning, get to places on time, and might have female drill sergeants or female leaders telling them what to do. Their sisters would not be there to pick up after them or pack for them. *gasp*

[MrMattyMatt]

The girls would have to wear pants!

[bigskygirl]

I would love to see a drill sergeant get  ahold of Princess Jessa. 

[andromeda331]

I'd love to see Supernanny show up. 

[Ljohnson1987]

I dispise how they go on and on about what amazing work ethic their kids have. Smuggar hasn't worked a day in his life.  Good job thinking that your kids will do something with their lives. Jana and Jill maybe, but definitely not Smuggar. 

[bigskygirl]

Jill quit her midwife training and takes pictures of her new life and promotes certain things for money, so I would say her work ethic is lacking. Why get a real job when you ride the money train on your family's name.

[PinkSprinkles]

Do we know for sure she quit?

[mimionthebeach]

Do we know for sure she quit?

There were pics posted somewhere of her going-away party, and I think one of her colleagues commented that she would be taking time off from her studies to adjust to her new life.

[BitterApple]

I think "adjust to her new life" is code for "I's married now so I don't need this sh*t." Jill isn't going to finish her training.

[cereality]

I can't stand the Duggar view of -- a woman only needs a job or career or education of her own if she isn't married because poor her, she will have to provide. Anna has openly said that. And Jill is demonstrating it by giving up her training to "adjust to her new life." I can see taking a few weeks off for the wedding/honeymoon, but really -- how much more "adjustment" time is needed? Derick is at work 9-5 and she's basically hanging out with her siblings during that time -- she can't work because . . . why exactly!? I would even be ok with it if they had a kid or two because then people start to fall into the situation of paying more for daycare than they are bringing in, but right now all she's really doing is cooking dinner for her sweetheart -- many working women do that too. I fault the Duggars for this thinking; I feel like Derick is open minded enough that if Jill wanted to work, he would allow it/be talked into it -- as I'm sure he went to school with and works with women and his mom likely worked, so he's not shocked at the idea of a female with a job.

[MrMattyMatt]

How sad if it's true that she won't be finishing her midwifery training.  She didn't have that much more to go, did she?  I really hope she does finish, even if she doesn't end up using it.  

[Marigny]

I would love to see a drill sergeant get  ahold of Princess Jessa. 

I would pay to be front row for that event. 

[lottiedottie]

I dispise how they go on and on about what amazing work ethic their kids have. Smuggar hasn't worked a day in his life.  Good job thinking that your kids will do something with their lives. Jana and Jill maybe, but definitely not Smuggar. 

I feel like John David probably knows how to put in a day's work. (well, work at a job for a paycheck, whereas the J'slaves all know what it is like to work their asses off in the home for nothing!)

[bigskygirl]

John David may put in a day's work, but he still can act like a you-know-what at times aka the trashing of the wedding vehicle. I still to this day cannot figure out how he became a constable.

[MrMattyMatt]

I still to this day cannot figure out how he became a constable.

 

Probably by default with lack of anyone better in the running.  Or it could be $$$$ and/or threats, just saying.

[Lillybee]

JD ran unopposed for a job that pays nothing. It looked like no one else wanted it.

[bigskygirl]

So an uneducated young man who thinks trashing a honeymoon vehicle is okay and comes from a family of famewhorers is suppose to protect people and property. Why do I feel so bad for the people who live there.

[trimthatfat]

How did I miss that JD is a constable? I don't know why I find this so hysterical.

[MrMattyMatt]

How did I miss that JD is a constable? I don't know why I find this so hysterical.

I know!  Every time I hear it all I can picture is Dudley Do-Right!

[barbedwire]

I lost what little respect I had for FRC when they hired Josh.  There are so many Christian young men and women with degrees looking for their first job outta college, and they hire this clown just because he has a "famous" last name.  Makes me sick.

[Growsonwalls]

I hate that the girls are always in such UGLY "countenance enhancing" clothes. Baggy t-shirts, jean skirts, flip flops. If they want to live the Gothard lifestyle fine, but can't they find some nice, pretty clothes that are also modest? It kind of just adds to the impression that the Duggars just don't care much about the girls, their normal wishes to look pretty are probably ignored. 

[Lisa-M]

The Duggars don't believe in pretty modest clothes because pretty clothes draw attention to your body. Michelle has said that clothing should just be something that covers your body and nothing else.

[cereality]

I think it's weird how much the Duggars restrict their adult kids. Even if the kids are encouraged to live at home until marriage and to not go to college, I feel like after the age of 16 or so (basically from Joy Anna on up), the kids should have freedom to explore whatever they want -- books, tv, music, movies etc. It would allow them to be exposed to different ideas and decide what is right for them. If the Duggars are SO strong in their faith, shouldn't they trust that their kids wouldn't stray?? I really think Joy Anna is old enough to be able to watch an episode of NY Med -- even if it makes her think -- gee I want to be a dr or nurse or maybe I want to live in NYC for a while or forever. They are her decisions to make.

 

I realize it would be hard to allow this in the set up they have -- because how do you let Jana watch TV without all of "her" kids walking in, but I honestly think given their dorm like set-up, that house should have a young adult "lounge" with a flat screen tv, stereo, shelves of books etc. They can put a key pad on the door like they do with employee lounges in work places.

[maraleia]

There is no logic in the Duggar universe and for that matter the rest of the Gothard families. These kids live in isolation from the rest of the world and are even more sheltered than the Amish which is saying something. I hate that the kids are forced into this life and have no choices in what they can do even as adults. Ridiculous.

[Lisa-M]

@cereality , Jim Bob and Michelle don't want to take the chance that their kids will stray. They can't know for sure their kids won't stray if given the chance. By isolating them, JB&M are making sure that their kids can't stray.