S06.E14: Sex, Lies & Facials

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just to play devil's advocate - isn't it plausible she had no idea they were going to invent a disgusting threesome storyline involving her? Maybe they told her to show up at this luncheon to interact with the HW's since she had recently met Aviva (and George and Cody) at Jill Zarin's party at the Hamptons. Going by her talk with Ramona, she seemed to have no idea what Ramona was talking about.

 

This one's really a stretch.  It's the kinda thing that would never get to court cuz I suspect it would get thrown out -- and even if it didn't, nobody would profit or benefit from it.  Oh, excuse me, the lawyers very well might.  Could Nana force out some dough from George & Veevs?  No fuckin' way.  George seems like a majorly cheap prick.  And his rep is shit now anyway, so he sure ain't gonna pay her off.  I don't see Veevs giving her shit either.  Best she could hope for is a retraction or apology.  Is it worth the effort & lawyers' expense?  Maybe.  I haven't a clue what her character is really like & if she's merely another reality show hopeful looking for publicity.

Edited June 11, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[amarante]

Miss USA would have to be able to prove that Aviva new what she was saying was false and was lying with the intention to harm. There is n o recourse for gossiping.

 

 

It is not necessary to prove an intent to harm and it is also not necessary to know that the statement was false - there is a standard of care imposed since defamation is a tort.

 

For libel (which is published defamation), it is only necessary that the person speak the lie and that it be published. There are different standards of care depending on how "public" a figure is. However, public figures including Tom Cruise have won libel actions against news media. Analytically, the libel might not have occurred until the episode was broadcast because until that time there would have been no publication - just the verbal slander at the actual luncheon.

 

However, pursuing a lawsuit is quite expensive and you still have to prove damages which is probably why most people don't pursue it. 

 

Suing George and Aviva because they said you had a three way is NOT the kind of lawsuit that would make someone unemployable in the entertainment business because most people above and below the line as well as in executive suites would be sympathetic to the plaintiff. It's entirely different than someone who sues his/her employer like Nicolette Sheridan did with Desperate Housewives.

Edited June 11, 2014 by amarante

[Lola16]

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/photos/recap-avivas-sexts-and-sonjas-secrets#image-197147

 

The woman in front on the left - isn't she one of the anchors on NBCs NY noon show?

[LotusFlower]

quetzal: 

I don't want him to think George is interesting enough for him to keep around for next season.  Assuming there is one.

 

Hi Andy!  /crazy

Andy is getting bombarded by tweets about how disgusting George is, and he responded by saying that he won't be on any more episodes this season, so I think we're safe (for this season and the future).

I know this season is getting really low ratings, but I'd be surprised if they cancelled the show, and I'm convinced Aviva will not be back. Not only because of the George backlash, but because of her diva ways and refusal to film (hello Adrienne Maloof) and how they cut her out of the opening montage. I think she's toast.

[Higgins]

It is not necessary to prove an intent to harm and it is also not necessary to know that the statement was false - there is a standard of care imposed since defamation is a tort.

 

For libel (which is published defamation), it is only necessary that the person speak the lie and that it be published. There are different standards of care depending on how "public" a figure is. However, public figures including Tom Cruise have won libel actions against news media. Analytically, the libel might not have occurred until the episode was broadcast because until that time there would have been no publication - just the verbal slander at the actual luncheon.

 

However, pursuing a lawsuit is quite expensive and you still have to prove damages which is probably why most people don't pursue it. 

 

Suing George and Aviva because they said you had a three way is NOT the kind of lawsuit that would make someone unemployable in the entertainment business because most people above and below the line as well as in executive suites would be sympathetic to the plaintiff. It's entirely different than someone who sues his/her employer like Nicolette Sheridan did with Desperate Housewives.

In New York Times v. Sullivan, The USSC ruled that where public figures are concerned, there needs to be the burden of Malice. The Court acknowledged that in public discussions, especially about public figures, mistakes can be made. If those mistakes are "honestly made," the Court said, they should be protected from defamation actions. The court made a rule that public officials could sue for statements made about their public conduct only if the statements were made with "actual malice."

"Actual malice" means that the person who made the statement knew it wasn't true, or didn't care whether it was true or not and was reckless with the truth -- for example, when someone has doubts about the truth of a statement but does not bother to check further before publishing it.

 

 Citation, NOLO Law for ALL

Edited June 11, 2014 by psychnurse

[Lola16]

Andy is getting bombarded by tweets about how disgusting George is, and he responded by saying that he won't be on any more episodes this season, so I think we're safe (for this season and the future).

I know this season is getting really low ratings, but I'd be surprised if they cancelled the show, and I'm convinced Aviva will not be back. Not only because of the George backlash, but because of her diva ways and refusal to film (hello Adrienne Maloof) and how they cut her out of the opening montage. I think she's toast.

Good.  I created a Twitter account this week just so I could express my opinions to Andy.  I have 2 followers. Dana/Cody and some Jersey Shore looking chick.

 

At LuAnn's luncheon, my memory is:

 

Aviva is standing with her hair when she spots Miss USA.  She then gossips about Miss USA.  Fast forward to the howives at the table.  Aviva asks Heather if she could send her a text.  Aviva types up a text to Heather about the 3 some.  I don't believe she forwarded a text from someone else, I believe Aviva typed it from herself to Heather.  Then the sharing of the text began.

 

Is how it happened?  I already deleted the episode.

[ryebread]

Lotusflower:

 

I believe NYC will be back.  Even though they took a LONG time to get this season together and it's still getting poor ratings, I agree with what someone said, upthread.

RHONY is an easy franchise to do because that's where Bravo is located.

 

It needs a major re-tooling without casting any more tools. 

[Persnickety1]

 

Which also makes me wonder:  Do the Hos get some kind of reward/kickback/whatev when they get people to follow them/tweet them on twitter?  If so, that might be another reason to encourage tweets.

 

I'm thinking Bravo is wanting this show to be "trending" on Twitter and Facebook, which would encourage new viewers to check it out.  Maybe a way to lure in new viewership.

 

 

Have to say, Alex really annoys the fuck outta me.

 

Maybe because with my career I literally have headphones in my ears 12-18 hours a day, but I can't get past the horrific tinny sound quality of her videos to sit through one.  I tried a few times thinking it was just a fluke but, nope, every time I start out with the intention to watch one in its entirety, my ears (and brain) beg me to shut it off.

 

 

But even if you're obligated to appear on reality shows to promote the Miss USA pageant, that doesn't mean the show has free reign to slander you, right?

 

Depends on which contract someone signs.  The one the housewives (and I understand pretty much ALL Bravo-lebrities) sign tells the person right up front, in no uncertain terms, that they may be edited to be the subject of ridicule, embarrassment, humiliation, etc.  And I'm not even kidding.

 

There was a link to one of the Bravo contracts at TWOP and, if anyone is desperate enough for exposure that they're willing to sign away their souls to such a degree as specified in that contract, I cannot find a single fuck to give about their protestations about how they were portrayed.  

Edited June 11, 2014 by Persnickety1

[LotusFlower]

At LuAnn's luncheon, my memory is:

 

Aviva is standing with her hair when she spots Miss USA.  She then gossips about Miss USA.  Fast forward to the howives at the table.  Aviva asks Heather if she could send her a text.  Aviva types up a text to Heather about the 3 some.  I don't believe she forwarded a text from someone else, I believe Aviva typed it from herself to Heather.  Then the sharing of the text began.

 

Is how it happened?  I already deleted the episode.

Yes. Aviva typed and sent the text to Heather at the luncheon table.

[SFoster21]

First Look at 10:11 tomorrow night. 

[Lola16]

Thanks @LotusFlower

[motorcitymom65]

.

 

Depends on which contract someone signs.  The one the housewives (and I understand pretty much ALL Bravo-lebrities) sign tells the person right up front, in no uncertain terms, that they may be edited to be the subject of ridicule, embarrassment, humiliation, etc.  And I'm not even kidding.

 

There was a link to one of the Bravo contracts at TWOP and, if anyone is desperate enough for exposure that they're willing to sign away their souls to such a degree as specified in that contract, I cannot find a single fuck to give about their protestations about how they were portrayed.

The below article talks about the contracts. There has always been speculation, but more credit was given to this because it was given as evidence by Tamra Barney's ex-husband Simon as he fought to keep his kids off the show. I have zero sympathy for anyone who would sign this, and Miss Whoever She Is most defiantly would have signed one. She was wearing a mic and I am assuming had a place card. It is hard to imagine her just walking in off the street and having a seat at the party of a Real HW and not noticing they were filming an actual show.

http://t.radaronline.com/entry/view/id/95524?utm_referrer=http:%2F%2Fallthingsrh.com%2Fshocking-details-bravos-real-housewives-contracts-revealed%2F

When Joe G called Teresa a cunt it was the cunt-calling heard round the world. I cannot stand her, but even I was a bit shocked that Bravo would let something so hurtful make it to our TV. Any network that treats it's own like this would have no reason to protect a random participant if ratings were at stake. Unless this beauty queen is just dumber than dirt, she had to know what she was getting herself into. I am no lawyer, but I would imagine she has less of a leg to stand on than Aviva does.

[psychoticstate]

Just a shoutout and a thanks to whomever (or whoever?) compared this episode and the gossipy gal to the movie "The Women". I was unfamiliar with it, but with your comments, as well as those from Carole in her blog (she loves this movie), I am going to check it out. I love these forums not just for the snark, but for the insight. I was unfamiliar with Grey Gardens before I got hooked on TWoP, and I am so glad I was introduced to such a lovely and disturbing documentary.

motorcitymom65, I hope you LOVE The Women.  It's one of my absolute favorite classic movies!

[larapu2000]

Unless this beauty queen is just dumber than dirt, she had to know what she was getting herself into. I am no lawyer, but I would imagine she has less of a leg to stand on than Aviva does.

 

To be fair, if I went to an event where I had to sign a waiver and knew there was a television show filming, I sure as shit wouldn't expect to be accused of having a threesome with the world's most despicable human being and a person willing to have sex with the world's most despicable human being.  Cat fight?  Sure.  Wine thrown in my face?  Why not?  But threesome?  Um....no.

[maggiemae]

I have a friend that works occasionally at the Montana Ranch they went to - and he was there when they filmed and interacted with them. Had no clue who they were.

 

I haven't seen this Ranch but did the prior one he worked at - which was fabulous.....and this one is supposed to be even better.

 

Luxurious does not even begin to describe it.

 

These women will not be stuck in the middle of nowhere eating beans from a campfire - and even in a "tent" will have a bathroom in the finest house anywhere and a western Ralph Lauren décor....and butler.

 

No doubt they will ruin the experience anyway.

[Lola16]

These women will not be stuck in the middle of nowhere eating beans from a campfire - and even in a "tent" will have a bathroom in the finest house anywhere and a western Ralph Lauren décor....and butler.

Given how flatulent Sonja is, that's a good thing!

[ScoobieDoobs]

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from Miss USA.  If she was really so outraged, how come she didn't go to the media with vehement denials of any 3-somes involving her ever taking place?  She could have gone to one of the more reliable tabs -- like People or US.  But not a peep outta her.  What gives?

 

I suspect she was set up by the producers.  Oh, it's possible Veevs set her up too.  She's certainly capable of this kinda underhanded bullshit.  As far as threatening lawsuits, that seems to be a routine thing now in the Housewives world.  Eh, I don't see any lawsuit happening.  The fact that it's all based on hearsay, the expense of the lawyers, the extreme difficulty in assessing damages -- it seems pretty unlikely to me.  

 

I'm still not getting why Miss USA doesn't go to People or US or even Radar or TMZ & just say how George & Veevs made up all that shit & they should apologize to her.  Is it cuz she can't, due to some confidentiality agreement with Bravo?  Or maybe it's cuz she knows the whole thing is a bunch of scripted bullshit, but she agreed to go along with it anyway.

Edited June 12, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[DebbieM4]

OMG - Alex's voice just grates.  Why do we have to view a video to get her thoughts?  She's a fugly bad laugher.  She reads what she is speaking - I am having a hard time getting through this.  All her vocal ticks and she thinks she's so clever.  Ugh.  Do not bring her back!

 

 

 

I was just about to post the same thing.  I find her completely unwatchable, so I bailed after just a minute or so after deciding that I didn't care enough about what she had to say to continue to torture myself.  Her voice and demeanor coupled with horrible over-acting and obvious amusement at her own "humor" - Just awful!  I had only seen bits & pieces of her in the past and I didn't like her much, but this was worse than I would have expected.

 

As for Carole's comments about George in her blog, yes she should have spoken up before.  But better now than never.  Hesitating and not speaking up because she didn't say something sooner would have been a huge mistake.  It's never too late to use whatever platform we have to say that this kind of behavior is unacceptable and should not be ignored.  Worst case scenario is that she's doing it to curry favor with the public, and even if that's so, at least she's saying what needs to be said.  I don't know what her motive was, but it needs to be said loud & clear by as many people as possible that George is inappropriate and crosses a line.  So I'm glad she said it.

[Lablover27]

 

I think that Heather says stuff like that to make it sound like she really cares, when she'd rather say something like "look dumbass, straighten up or get the hell out of here!"  I relate it to how us southerners will sometimes preface an insult with "well bless her heart!"  Somehow it just sounds more polite that way.

 

 

I hear ya.  But I would love for Heather to say what she really thinks.  Hey, you drunk skunk, STFU.  ;)  Instead of honey bunnies.  But Heather has more class than that and you are right, she's much more polite to do that.

 

A little off topic: I LOVE the classic movie "The Women"   Love it!  I watched it AFTER the Meg Ryan version.  I was so interested in the wardrobe.  And of couse, Joan Crawford.  She's the only one who could pull off a turbin.  

 

 

Edited June 12, 2014 by Lablover27

[motorcitymom65]

To be fair, if I went to an event where I had to sign a waiver and knew there was a television show filming, I sure as shit wouldn't expect to be accused of having a threesome with the world's most despicable human being and a person willing to have sex with the world's most despicable human being.  Cat fight?  Sure.  Wine thrown in my face?  Why not?  But threesome?  Um....no.

I completely agree, but it sounds like Bravo has been guilty of doing much more heinous things.

 

The attached article is really interesting reading. It is about Scott Dunlop, the creator of The RH shows. He talks about how the series came about and the impact it has had.  There are also several interesting tidbits from current and former HW's.  The most interesting to me was about Cat on the short-lived DC series:

 

"But the fallout can be more serious than a tiff between friends. Catherine Ommanney was a British expat married to a White House photographer and author of a tell-all memoir when she agreed to take part in The Real Housewives of DC in 2010. She enjoyed filming and took it all with a large pinch of salt. But there was one occasion, she alleges, when the programme-makers edited her footage to make her appear racist. On screen, Ommanney was shown visiting the family of Stacie, a black cast member. That footage was interspersed with a later interview of Ommanney saying she "felt uncomfortable".

The only problem was that Ommanney claims she had actually been talking about getting a pedicure – "because I hate people touching my feet. They took that out of context and the average American thought I was a racist".

 

The rumour spread "like wildfire" and Ommanney started receiving hate mail. The pressure was such that Ommanney says she confronted one of the editors at a drinks party while the series was airing. 

"I said: 'I cannot believe what you've done to me,' and they said: 'Cat, I'm so sorry. You get ripped apart the first four episodes but then it turns around and everyone ends up loving you.' That's the way they keep it interesting," says Ommanney phlegmatically."

 

To me, this is nasty as fuck. Being labeled a racist can ruin your life, which is fair enough if you are one.  My head would have exploded. What reasonable person would expect for someone to cobble your words together to make you look like  you are a racist? 

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/feb/16/real-housewives-interview-scott-dunlop

[Higgins]

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from Miss USA.  If she was really so outraged, how come she didn't go to the media with vehement denials of any 3-somes involving her ever taking place?  She could have gone to one of the more reliable tabs -- like People or US.  But not a peep outta her.  What gives?

 

I suspect she was set up by the producers.  Oh, it's possible Veevs set her up too.  She's certainly capable of this kinda underhanded bullshit.  As far as threatening lawsuits, that seems to be a routine thing now in the Housewives world.  Eh, I don't see any lawsuit happening.  The fact that it's all based on hearsay, the expense of the lawyers, the extreme difficulty in assessing damages -- it seems pretty unlikely to me.  

 

I'm still not getting why Miss USA doesn't go to People or US or even Radar or TMZ & just say how George & Veevs made up all that shit & they should apologize to her.  Is it cuz she can't, due to some confidentiality agreement with Bravo?  Or maybe it's cuz she knows the whole thing is a bunch of scripted bullshit, but she agreed to go along with it anyway.

She probably is declining to dignify it with a response. If she goes to People, everyone will know about it. Now, considering the terrible ratings, very few people even heard the rumor.

 

The rumour spread "like wildfire" and Ommanney started receiving hate mail. The pressure was such that Ommanney says she confronted one of the editors at a drinks party while the series was airing.

"I said: 'I cannot believe what you've done to me,' and they said: 'Cat, I'm so sorry. You get ripped apart the first four episodes but then it turns around and everyone ends up loving you.' That's the way they keep it interesting," says Ommanney phlegmatically."

 

That's why when they show someone saying something like they did with Shannon's husband "in front of" the daughter, I doubt it. They can really fuck with the editing and convince you that you know what really happened when you don't.

Edited June 12, 2014 by psychnurse

[SFoster21]

Who in their right mind would believe for an instant that such a thing happened?

The information was conveyed third hand, fer chrissakes.

[Neurochick]

 

I absolutely believe that Aviva wants to have George as part of her storyline. I also believe that Gorge told her he had a threesome with Miss USA, because he is a disgusting  old coot for whom the line between fantasy and reality is blurred. He wishes he had a threesome, so he tells Aviva, who thinks it's part of her "my dad the perv" storyline. And I believe Aviva arranged through the Bravo producers to have Miss USA there. Ramona has the dirt, I'm waiting for her to use it. Props to Luann for calling Aviva on her shit and boos to Aviva for the passive aggressive dig about Lu's daughter's art.  All the women should have been reprimanded for their behavior at the lunch.

 

I agree with this.  Aviva seems proud that her dad is a perv and I think she's proud because she knows that without him she has no story.   I think Luann was pissed and was trying to sort of break the fourth wall with Aviva, she probably knew Aviva got production to invite Miss USA

 

I too think Aviva told the producers and they invited Miss USA, so Aviva wasn't really lying when she told Luann that 'she' didn't invite her. 

 

I think that was the Miss USA who was in the newspapers a few months ago; something about how she was having a hard time finding a boyfriend, or that she was on one of those online dating sites and couldn't find someone.   I just remember it was in the NYPost a few months ago; meaning I'm not surprised she was on a TV show.

[imjagain]

I don't understand Sonja. She obviously fed that woman all that gossip to bring up on camera. I dislike Sonja more each episode. Luann and Carole should be pissed at Sonja.

Edited June 12, 2014 by imjagain

[larapu2000]

She probably is declining to dignify it with a response. If she goes to People, everyone will know about it. Now, considering the terrible ratings, very few people even heard the rumor.

 

True.  Or maybe she figures that no one with eyes, ears, and a brain would find this anything more than laughable.  If she takes it seriously, then others would take it seriously?

[Satchels of gold]

If I were Aviva I would be trying to suffocate George with a pillow, not parading him around like he's the Hope diamond. I generally don't encourage patricide but I will make an exception in this case. I also love the fact that Andy has been inundated with angry tweets. He deserves all the grief he is getting.

[islandgal]

 

I absolutely believe that Aviva wants to have George as part of her storyline. I also believe that Gorge told her he had a threesome with Miss USA, because he is a disgusting  old coot for whom the line between fantasy and reality is blurred.

I refuse to re-watch this episode so maybe someone else can confirm but my impression was that Aviva was offering some eyewitness account.  Not of the threesome itself (Thank the powers that be) of course but more circumstantial evidence. Didn't Aviva say that she [Aviva] invited Nana over to her home, let her sleep over in one of her children's rooms, realized the next morning Nana didn't sleep in her assigned room and then Nana had breakfast there the next morning? 

Nana refuted all of this so Aviva is looking like a lying liar who lies. 

[jinjer]

Avery transfered to UVA for next year from Emory, so for all their own craziness, Ramona and the love rat Mario did indeed raise an intelligent daughter.

 

I think Sonja and Russ did sleep together - and Sonja did it to get back at Carole for announcing to the world that she caught Sonja and the pirate in the garden having anal sex, which Sonja claimed was only doggie style.  There was no need for Carole to go there to embarrass Sonja, so I think Sonja purposefully went after her "friend's" man.  Russ I don't think is that discriminating when it comes to casual hookups.

 

I prefer victory lap to walk of shame too.  But I do feel for Sonja's daughter.  Sonja has misplaced her dignity this season.

[Neurochick]

Bravo wants ratings badly for this show.  How can I tell?  I watch 'on demand' on Wednesday.  Normally it's the type of on demand that lets you FF past the commercials.  Last night Bravo had it so I couldn't FF past the commercials.  It will probably be that way until Saturday.  My understanding of the ratings is that the day the show comes on, plus three days on demand, the networks have the entire show, commercials and all, but on the fourth day, you still can't FF, but there are little to no commercials. 

[amarante]

I refuse to re-watch this episode so maybe someone else can confirm but my impression was that Aviva was offering some eyewitness account.  Not of the threesome itself (Thank the powers that be) of course but more circumstantial evidence. Didn't Aviva say that she [Aviva] invited Nana over to her home, let her sleep over in one of her children's rooms, realized the next morning Nana didn't sleep in her assigned room and then Nana had breakfast there the next morning?

 

 

You are correct as Aviva absolutely stated that Miss USA came over and was given the son's room to sleep in. I don't recall whether she stated she had breakfast there but Aviva definitely corroborated her father's claims by stating the woman had physically been there - been escorted to a bedroom but the bed had not actually been slept in.

 

I agree that Carole wasn't exactly indignant when she encountered George and so she is a bit Johnny come lately to the indignation party but her blog was spot on in every way. None of the housewives (excluding Ramona) seem to treat George in person as the loathsome disgusting toad he is - for whatever reason so perhaps they are all deferring to a stupid old man. I know most of us have bitten our tongues rather than really get into it with an older person. The housewives tend to only fight with each other.

 

And in what universe could Aviva think anyone would willingly be with her father for any reason other than money? The mind boggles. Aviva is almost old enough to be their mother - would Aviva want to have sex with someone as old and repulsive as her father?

[Leroux]

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from Miss USA.  If she was really so outraged, how come she didn't go to the media with vehement denials of any 3-somes involving her ever taking place?  She could have gone to one of the more reliable tabs -- like People or US.  But not a peep outta her.  What gives?

 

I suspect she was set up by the producers.  Oh, it's possible Veevs set her up too.  She's certainly capable of this kinda underhanded bullshit.  As far as threatening lawsuits, that seems to be a routine thing now in the Housewives world.  Eh, I don't see any lawsuit happening.  The fact that it's all based on hearsay, the expense of the lawyers, the extreme difficulty in assessing damages -- it seems pretty unlikely to me.  

 

I'm still not getting why Miss USA doesn't go to People or US or even Radar or TMZ & just say how George & Veevs made up all that shit & they should apologize to her.  Is it cuz she can't, due to some confidentiality agreement with Bravo?  Or maybe it's cuz she knows the whole thing is a bunch of scripted bullshit, but she agreed to go along with it anyway.

IMO Aviva and George claim is so ridiculous and laughable that she refuses to give it any more coverage.

Alex McCord has talked about possible lawsuits but I doubt it will ever happened.

[Midnight Cheese]

I'm caught between feeling sorry for Sonja and feeling disgusted by her - not for being single and wanting casual sex, but for the Carole/Luann stuff she fed the facialist before inviting her on camera, for being so gleeful about perhaps lying about Russ, and for sure for lying about St. Barth's.  We all watched that trip, and we never saw anything showing Russ flirting with Sonja - but she flirted with him.  She also was a huge PITA, before Volcano Aviva erupted: she criticized Carole for having Russ there when everyone knew in advance that Russ and Carole planned to meet in St. Barth's, where he had a concert (Ramona chimed in and Carole said she'd been around both of them and their men plenty, so they could 'shut up'); she complained about that more than once. 

 

Luann was right to tell Sonja that Sonja valued her relationship with Ramona more than her friendship with Lu.  I'm impressed that she brushed off the facialist's gossip so quickly and lightly, but - it's been a whole season of insults, LuMan, likes to dom short French dudes -- but nothing about Ramona, who has been a total asshole to everyone including Sonja, beyond 'she's unhappy.'   Yes, many people are unhappy when their 'perfect marriage' includes a spouse sticking his willy into another crazy person and clapping in excitement as their wife is whisked away!  But Sonja's mum.  That's what I don't like about her - I think Sonja's a big-assed chicken.  She won't take on Krazy Eyez but since Lu and Carole largely act like adults, it's okay for her to be a giant bitch to them.  It's strategic.  She has no power in her real life any longer, and she's chickenshit, so this is how she goes about it.

 

Sonja is a woman who has to win, and in her mind be first choice fuckable as if every man she meets is secretly deciding between his partner, girlfriend, wife, whatever, and her, so Sonja has to put out feelers or outright suggest that she's #1.  It's pretty obvious.  It's got nothing to do with getting hers and having a great sex life - it's competitive.  The point is not that she may have fucked Russ, and how truly open his relationship with Carole was - it's how she shared that.  She was really smug.  It made her happy to 'conquer' the pirate after he and Lu hooked up, because Sonja is as Carole wrote 'a dingbat' and hasn't really mastered what sloppy seconds means.  If you have to prove you are hotter, in however demented or pathetic a way, you aren't a nice woman, a good friend, or a reliable witness about what happened between you and a man or your friend and her man.  Sonja has many more problems but that is a doozy.  She does not seem like she's having the time of her life on her victory laps.  And she doesn't care about other people at all, really - 'Pickles,' being impossible to track by her interns and by production, keeping everyone waiting, rejecting the caburlesque dancers who trained with her at the last minute - and all of it is because she is so thirsty for attention.  It's very strange and offputting for me at least.  

 

Totally agree with the posters who find watching Alex McCord unbearable.  I felt complete embarrassment watching her tic out and hear her voice crack with excitement as she tried to put on her cool, insider persona.  Un.  Comfortable.  Particularly because she never sheds light on anything.  And I'm sure she feels sorry for Kelly -- I think for several different reaons, kooky Kelly would be welcome back on RHONY (by Andy and the producers) in a way that Alex never will.  Alex is lethally awkward and disingenuous, and that never wins.

 

I also agree that the best of this season has all been without both Aviva and Ramona - I loved the Berkshires after Ramona lied and flew away, Heather's anniversary party, Saratoga and all of the other scenes where they were gone.  They aren't necessary for the show and throw off the chemistry in bad ways.  I can't even fully credit Ramona for taking on George, because both in Florida last season and in this one, she reacted at least partially like she was flattered by having his wooden teefed, dessicated jerky attention on her.  She did come correct in calling him gross and telling him about himself to his face, but that wasn't the only way she reacted to him.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[kassa]

I agree that Aviva isn't off the hook using the excuse that she was merely "relaying gossip."  She never claimed to have seen the threesome happening, but she DID claim that the woman was at her house, in her child's bed, etc.  She "confirmed" all the circumstantial evidence surrounding the disgusting allegation -- all the little details that made it conceivable, if not believable.  If we believe Miss USA and none of what Aviva stated happened happened, let ALONE what George said happened... why did Aviva insert herself to embellish George's story?   Of course it's malicious.  (Not saying legally actionable or worth the expense even if it is, but morally?  Oh, yeah)

 

As far as "she signed a release, so anything goes"... would that have applied to David Paterson, the blind Governor of NY who appeared on an early episode?  (Remember Ramona's crass remarks about his blindness right to his face?  Good times, good times!)

 

If he were at the cancer event and said "what the hell, I'm a fan, I'll just exchange pleasantries and give my grandkids a laugh when I pop up on the show" and Aviva decided to claim that her father had had a threesome with him... would people say "too bad, he signed the release!"  Would Bravo have aired it?

 

Oh, and anybody who hasn't seen The Women should see it.  It's pre-code, so surprisingly raunchy, and hilarious.  There is also not a single man in the entire movie, not even in the background.  Jungle Red!

Edited June 12, 2014 by kassa

[Muffyn]

Aviva's statement on the show was "On Sunday night, Cody, my father's fiance, called me (<missed word> and said, 'I just was wondering if you would mind if Miss USA slept over.'  At first I was like well I don't know her and she's Miss USA so it's like she's . . . " Ramona interjects "Yeah".  Aviva continues "So I said, 'Have her sleep in Harrison's room.  He's at camp; the sheets are clean, blah, blah, blah.'  So in the morning my dad comes out and I said 'Dad, is Miss USA sleeping up in Harrison's room?'  And he says, 'No.  She came over.  We all fooled around. And she left."  So Aviva never said that she saw Nana at the house.  She instead passed on a bullshit story from her disgusting father who is still trying to convince the world he is desirable rather than repulsive.  

[Higgins]

 Think of it as a man's idea of women of that era rather than a study of real women's behaviors.  I'm not sure if that makes it more or less disturbing.  Then again, the housewives shows are more and more a man's idea of women's behaviors; with planned story lines and deceptive editing we are more and more shown women at their worst.  

As someone who works with almost entirely women, I can say that it is a fairly accurate study of women's behavior.

Edited June 12, 2014 by psychnurse

[ScoobieDoobs]

I also love the fact that Andy has been inundated with angry tweets. He deserves all the grief he is getting.

 

Absolutely!  Who fuckin' cares that he was on vacay?  This reminds me of the stupid PR chick who posted a racist tweet about AIDS, then went on vacay & came back to a flurry of outrage & getting fired.  Well, Andy can't get fired cuz he's got a contract with Bravo for WWHL.  Ah, I wonder how this will affect his ratings there.  

 

I get it.  He's playing it cool & acting like it's no big deal.  No, you fucking dickhead, it is big deal.  It's a huge deal!  Oh, I'm sure he hopes viewers -- and particularly women, will forget he said George's misogynist behavior was hilarious.  I don't think anyone is gonna forget.  Andy Cohen -- girl, you in trouble.

 

If we believe Miss USA and none of what Aviva stated happened happened, let ALONE what George said happened... why did Aviva insert herself to embellish George's story?   Of course it's malicious.  

 

The thing is, even if it was true -- or any of this nonsense with Miss USA was even remotely true, Veevs was nasty as fuck for talking about it on cam in such a vicious way & tearing at someone's rep for no reason.  Oh yeah, she did have a reason.  To give herself a storyline cuz she's so desperate to stay on the show.  And she's not interesting enough on her own.  Vile, awful, horrible woman.  Fire her already.  I don't wanna look at her or hear her nasty bullshit anymore.

 

Btw, The Women & the remake from the 50's with Joan Collins, The Opposite Sex are really fun flicks (skip the remake with Meg Ryan cuz it sucks).  In some ways they're both incredibly dated & in other ways not.  Are facialists, manicurists, shampooers & stylists (or trainers) still the center of gossip?  Maybe.  But this seemed extremely fake.  Sorry producers, but this was way too obvious.  It all screamed producer setup.  

 

I don't believe Sonja ever got together with Russ.  In St. Barths, he looked somewhat horrified by her.  Well, anyway, he certainly didn't look interested or hot for her.  Kinda reminded me of the look on the 20 year old kid's face she was hitting on.  Look, God bless Sonja that she can still easily get laid.  But the fact is she's older & not everyone is gonna be interested.  If she doesn't wanna acknowledge that little fact, she's as delusional as crazy Kelly.

 

This seemed to me like the producers poking at Carole -- & Sonja going along with it.  As we've seen in the Bookgate crap, Carole doesn't take being poked at very well, does she?

Edited June 12, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[Portae]

Didn't Aviva say that she [Aviva] invited Nana over to her home, let her sleep over in one of her children's rooms, realized the next morning Nana didn't sleep in her assigned room and then Nana had breakfast there the next morning?

 

 

Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Aviva said that Cody asked if Nana could spend the night, and then Aviva told Cody that it was fine and to put her in Harrison's room. In other words, Aviva was going off of the last communication that she had with Cody, not on any firsthand interactions with Nana.

Assuming that Cody simply didn't bother to update Aviva on the fact that Nana left directly from the party, and given what George said in response to Aviva's questions about where she was, Aviva might not actually be intentionally lying.

Also, call me a pervert, but am the only one slightly suspicious about Nana's responses? Girl had some answers at the ready, and never even asked Ramona why she was asking for all of those details. I'm not saying that she hooked up with George, but maybe she hooked up with Cody and George watched or something? I'll go bleach my brain now.

 

[zoeysmom]

So after Andy was slaughtered in social media about George I wonder how much of George's escapades will be taking up the Reunion?  I am kind of hoping Bravo does not give the asshole one more minute of air time or acknowledgment.  I can not help but believe that Aviva returned this season to play a role with George and Cody in tow.  No one in their right mind would purposely do the things she and her father do and expect anything but public scorn. 

 

Miss USA has said she was invited by production to the luncheon.  How LuAnn would not have known this is beyond any type of common sense.  I get LuAnn had very little in the way of a storyline but I must say the contrived argument with her repeatedly accusing Aviva of inviting the Miss USA was not believable.  Also stretching credulity is LuAnn's blind eye to Heather's misbehavior.  Twice LuAnn has hosted an event and Heather has been loud and obnoxious and LuAnn seems to overlook it.

 

With the ever increasing rumors of a very major cast shake up it truly begs the question-should the producers spend less time scripting this show and more time casting it?  I would have thought the tale caring "facialist" might have mentioned the Mario affair being that she is so connected.  http://www.allabouttrh.com/

 

Edited June 12, 2014 by zoeysmom

[kassa]

 

Look, God bless Sonja that she can still easily get laid.  But the fact is she's older & not everyone is gonna be interested.

I think she's extremely attractive and would have about as broad an appeal to men as any woman her age... except for the crazed behavior.  Sonja's looks and figure on a laid back, kind and gracious woman who didn't circle and dive bomb men like a bird of prey?  She'd be way ahead in terms of lining up the next retirement fund aka rich elderly husband.  Or even much younger men looking for a fling.  Or, god forbid, somebody age appropriate.

Edited June 12, 2014 by kassa

[ScoobieDoobs]

What the hell was the Moaner asking Miss USA about any of this shit with George & Cody?  What business is it of hers?  What does she have to do with any of it?  How'd she like it if some random person came up to her at some event or party or restaurant & started asking her about Mario & his skank?  You just know she'd flee quick.  I'm really fuckin' tired of the Moaner & her ridiculous bullshit.

 

Btw, it's humid as all hell here in NYC.  And yeah, it's just as humid out in the Hamptons, so everyone's blowouts are gonna look like total crap.  So what's the Moaner gonna do, stay inside all summer to protect hers?  Asshole.

Edited June 12, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

I think she's extremely attractive and would have about as broad an appeal to men as any woman her age... except for the crazed behavior.  Sonja's looks and figure on a laid back, kind and gracious woman who didn't circle and dive bomb men like a bird of prey?  She'd be way ahead in terms of lining up the next retirement fund aka rich elderly husband.  Or even much younger men looking for a fling.  Or, god forbid, somebody age appropriate.

I think the big reason for Sonja not settling down or maybe looking for a steady mate is the $11 million dollar non-dischargeable debt hanging around her neck.  Probably very few people are so love they can overlook the tremendous amount of baggage that comes with Ms. Morgan.  So I can see where young guys and victory laps, guys like Harry are all in good fun. 

[Chit Chat]

 

What the hell was the Moaner asking Miss USA about any of this shit with George & Cody?  What business is it of hers?

It was rude, but I was glad that we got the answers!  We can count on Ramona to fill in the blanks on things like this!   Aviva was rude in bringing it up at all, then the ladies were rude with their laughing and cutting up when the guest was speaking.  They all need a refresher course in manners with Luann!  ;)

[OhGromit]

quetzal:  I haven't clicked on the thread even once because I have a slight case of Carolenoia - I think Andy is stalking these threads and he's checking to  see how many hits George's thread is getting.   

 

I don't want him to think George is interesting enough for him to keep around for next season.  Assuming there is one.

 

Hi Andy!  /crazy

 

Aww, man, I'd feel awful if that were true!  I created that thread, but only so I could show people how George looks like a Sleestak from Land of the Lost.  If Bravo counts blog posts as "popularity" (instead of as how high the hatred meter is reading, which is pretty much what the George thread is all about), that would suck.  I hereby apologize to the universe for contributing in any way to that.

 

He really does look like a Sleestak though.  Especially in the mouth area. 

[FozzyBear]

It was rude, but I was glad that we got the answers! We can count on Ramona to fill in the blanks on things like this! Aviva was rude in bringing it up at all, then the ladies were rude with their laughing and cutting up when the guest was speaking. They all need a refresher course in manners with Luann! ;)

I'm not too mad at Ramona about this. They were all gossiping about someone who was right in the room. Making assumptions in front of a camera based on second hand knowledge of another one of George's BS penthouse forum stories. Ramona just asked the woman about the incident and gave her a chance to tell her side of the story.

[Almost 3000]

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from Miss USA.  If she was really so outraged, how come she didn't go to the media with vehement denials of any 3-somes involving her ever taking place?  She could have gone to one of the more reliable tabs -- like People or US.  But not a peep outta her.  What gives?

 

I suspect she was set up by the producers.  Oh, it's possible Veevs set her up too.  She's certainly capable of this kinda underhanded bullshit.  As far as threatening lawsuits, that seems to be a routine thing now in the Housewives world.  Eh, I don't see any lawsuit happening.  The fact that it's all based on hearsay, the expense of the lawyers, the extreme difficulty in assessing damages -- it seems pretty unlikely to me.  

 

I'm still not getting why Miss USA doesn't go to People or US or even Radar or TMZ & just say how George & Veevs made up all that shit & they should apologize to her.  Is it cuz she can't, due to some confidentiality agreement with Bravo?  Or maybe it's cuz she knows the whole thing is a bunch of scripted bullshit, but she agreed to go along with it anyway.

Maybe its her story line as a new housewife...

[motorcitymom65]

I'm not too mad at Ramona about this. They were all gossiping about someone who was right in the room. Making assumptions in front of a camera based on second hand knowledge of another one of George's BS penthouse forum stories. Ramona just asked the woman about the incident and gave her a chance to tell her side of the story.

Ramona was not concerned about that girl or her reputation. She was not worried that folks were talking about her. If she was offended by that type of thing she would have ended her friendship with Sonja a long time ago. She was mad at George and went sniffing around. I would have felt completely different if she had gone up to her, minus the questions, and simply told the beauty queeen that she should know that someone was saying some not very discreet things about her to a large audience. If the gal was interested she could have asked for details. Instead she asked those silly questions, like she was the headmistress at some boarding school. Yes, she got the information, but she looked very silly doing it. Which is pretty much per usual.

[Rhetorica]

In twenty years of nursing, I've never heard this. Nor has it been my experience.

I'm not surprised that Sonja had a booty call the night before inviting Kristen over. I'm surprised the guy waited until ten o'clock in the morning to kick her out.

Why do I think the fetal masks they're referring to are human? We can't have an open dialogue in this country about using aborted fetal tissue for stem cell testing, but we'll pay a fortune for black market fetal tissue to maintain our beauty.

Did they really say fetal masks? For some reason, my mind went to placenta masks. I don't dvr the show (once is enough for me) so I'm curious. Thanks Red.

[ryebread]

From the story about Cat Ommanney posted above:

"I said: 'I cannot believe what you've done to me,' and they said: 'Cat, I'm so sorry. You get ripped apart the first four episodes but then it turns around and everyone ends up loving you.' That's the way they keep it interesting," says Ommanney phlegmatically."

 

I've always suspected as much. They are such masters of manipulation, imo.   It's shitty, for sure, but it fascinates me how they do it through this medium. They're pretty damn subtle at what they're doing. The first season I didn't even realize it was happening.  I'm going to use Heather's image as an example because A.) I think she's next and B.) because she appears to be a fan favorite at the moment. 

 

Bravo is already letting little things slip into each episode, almost imperceptible things about Heather which are starting to turn the tide against her.  Things, that once they REALLY get the hate ball rolling on her, many of her current fans will go, "Oh, yeah. Remember back in her second season when she xyz'd?  It all makes sense now."  Conversely, Taylor, Camille, Kelly - at one time or other were condemned as the most hated housewives ever.  EVER. ever.  But lately, I've seen their names tossed around as candidates to return to the Ho screen.  Camille got a total turnaround edit which I'll never understand. I think she's heinous.  Nicely dressed, but heinous.  Brandi, who was adored by many when she first joined the cast, was the only Ho that ended up with a petition to try to get her fired.  Adrienne - how did she go from the level headed one to another roundly hated Ho.

Even the Countess.  She's a fan favorite right now but not long ago she was the snotty Countless who was too priggish to swig a beer from a bottle. 

 

It's too soon to start my love letter to Aviva but stranger things have happened. Or should I say Bravo has MADE stranger things happen. 

[RedheadZombie]

Rhetorica, I think you're right.  I still want to see those placentas used in testing rather than beauty products.  We could also store stem cells from every placenta to be used for transplants.   I think we're too uptight in this country on this subject.

[Lola16]

Who in their right mind would believe for an instant that such a thing happened?

The information was conveyed third hand, fer chrissakes.

Problem is, the internet.  Whether it's true or not, if it's widely posted, then it will float to the top of search results.  Not cool.

 

As for Cat in DC, she was the Tamra Barney of London. Came over here acting like she was royalty when in actuality she did a royal look-alike in a bar.  I also don't remember the tide turning back her way.  She was unappealing the entire series.