20/20

[pigs-in-space]

Yes, although I think Dateline only showed one of them testifying - the one who said on the stand he didn't think their lives were in danger but who sounded pretty terrified on the 911 call.  I found out about the second friend testifying online.

Edited September 19, 2017 by pigs-in-space

[UsernameFatigue]

I am not sure if I am mis remembering, but did Steven say the reason he didn't drive away was because he didn't have/couldn't find the key to start the car, just to get in it? I did read online that the medical examiner said that Brough was standing no more than two feet away from Jones when he was shot. I think on Dateline someone was saying he was quite a ways away, even down to walking the distance to show how far it was. According to reports of the trial the testimony was quite different depending on who was giving it. Also interesting that one of Brough's friends who was there did not call police. He said he wanted to support his friend and pray. Wouldn't you think calling police would be the first thing you would do? He was accused of waiting to talk to police so he and his friends could get their story straight.

But ya, no winners here, just losers. One paid with his life, the other will likely pay with part of his. Even if he gets off, his life has been changed forever. It does make me wonder what Jones' parents now think about giving their son a gun. It may have cost him his life, or it saved it? Hard to say when they are that immersed in gun culture. I did think it was odd that they gave him a gun that had a flashlight attached. Is that common? In any case sad all around. 

[ari333]

25 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am not sure if I am mis remembering, but did Steven say the reason he didn't drive away was because he didn't have/couldn't find the key to start the car, just to get in it? I did read online that the medical examiner said that Brough was standing no more than two feet away from Jones when he was shot. I think on Dateline someone was saying he was quite a ways away, even down to walking the distance to show how far it was. According to reports of the trial the testimony was quite different depending on who was giving it. Also interesting that one of Brough's friends who was there did not call police. He said he wanted to support his friend and pray. Wouldn't you think calling police would be the first thing you would do? He was accused of waiting to talk to police so he and his friends could get their story straight.

But ya, no winners here, just losers. One paid with his life, the other will likely pay with part of his. Even if he gets off, his life has been changed forever. It does make me wonder what Jones' parents now think about giving their son a gun. It may have cost him his life, or it saved it? Hard to say when they are that immersed in gun culture. I did think it was odd that they gave him a gun that had a flashlight attached. Is that common? In any case sad all around. 

All good points. I wondered the same. 

[pigs-in-space]

Sorry in advance, I'm going to get nit-picky here, UsernameFatigue. ;)

Quote

I am not sure if I am mis remembering, but did Steven say the reason he didn't drive away was because he didn't have/couldn't find the key to start the car, just to get in it?

Are there really cars where the key to get in doesn't start it?  (Asking seriously, as I haven't owned a car in years and years.)

Quote

I did read online that the medical examiner said that Brough was standing no more than two feet away from Jones when he was shot. I think on Dateline someone was saying he was quite a ways away, even down to walking the distance to show how far it was.

The actual shooting occurred across the parking lot from Jones' car, and Jones and Brough were apparently only two feet apart from each other.  The discrepancy comes in when Jones was telling the police how far they were from the car when the shooting occurred - he claimed that it was right near his car, but he actually walked across the parking lot with his gun, then shot Brough.

[CaughtOnTape]

13 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

Are there really cars where the key to get in doesn't start it?  (Asking seriously, as I haven't owned a car in years and years.)

He may have had an older model car where the keyfob to open the doors is different then the actual key.  Nowadays, the keys and the keyfob are one in the same.

[ari333]

I didn't know he had an issue with the ignition key or finding it. I should pay more attention.  If I couldn't find my ignition key I may have panicked. I may have brandished the gun, but I can't see myself just shooting people.

[UsernameFatigue]

On 9/19/2017 at 0:25 PM, pigs-in-space said:

Sorry in advance, I'm going to get nit-picky here, UsernameFatigue. ;)

Are there really cars where the key to get in doesn't start it?  (Asking seriously, as I haven't owned a car in years and years.)

The actual shooting occurred across the parking lot from Jones' car, and Jones and Brough were apparently only two feet apart from each other.  The discrepancy comes in when Jones was telling the police how far they were from the car when the shooting occurred - he claimed that it was right near his car, but he actually walked across the parking lot with his gun, then shot Brough.

No problem. It is quite possible that Jones did not say anything about not having the key to drive away and I just made that up in my head. As in "why didn't he just drive away?". And sorry to anyone here that I may have confused by writing it. I was too lazy to go back and see if I could find the statement somewhere in the epi. So I am still wondering, why didn't he just drive away? And for those who have mentioned older cars with two keys, it did seem to be a pretty new model Mustang but can't say for sure as I am not that up on cars. 

And yes, thank you also for pointing out that the shooting was far away from the car. When I read that I was thinking that Brough had come that close to the car and that was where he was shot. It will be interesting to see what happens in the retrial next month. 

[ari333]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

No problem. It is quite possible that Jones did not say anything about not having the key to drive away and I just made that up in my head. As in "why didn't he just drive away?". And sorry to anyone here that I may have confused by writing it. I was too lazy to go back and see if I could find the statement somewhere in the epi. So I am still wondering, why didn't he just drive away? And for those who have mentioned older cars with two keys, it did seem to be a pretty new model Mustang but can't say for sure as I am not that up on cars. 

And yes, thank you also for pointing out that the shooting was far away from the car. When I read that I was thinking that Brough had come that close to the car and that was where he was shot. It will be interesting to see what happens in the retrial next month. 

Do we know where the other two friedns were when he was at the car getting the gun?

[formerlyfreedom]

There are temporary style keys that only unlock a car. I know this because my mom gave me that key to her late 1990s Honda, and called one day when she lost her keys. I drove to meet up with her, only to discover the key only opened the car, it did not start it.

[galaxychaser]

Steven Jones got punched in the face and his glasses got knocked off his face. Maybe that's why he couldn't see where he was shooting.  I feel bad for everyone. 

I think David Muir wears the same suit all the time.  And he always pulls at his fingers.  Distracting!

[walnutqueen]

This "boy" was so afraid for his life that he advanced 90 feet across a parking lot to shoot his "assailants".  Alrighty then.

[CaughtOnTape]

I believe they put the wrong people in jail for Holly Bobo's murder and they'll be released come the next few decades when it comes out they didn't do it.

[RedheadZombie]

Regarding the Holly Bobo episode - I'm not sure how I feel.  It's always difficult when I can't sympathize with the loved ones of the victim, and the mother should be most sympathetic.  But I just could not with that woman.  The neighbor hears Holly screaming.  Holly's brother Clint doesn't hear the screaming, and Holly's mother surely doesn't hear the screaming on the other side of town.  Clint hears the dog barking, and sees what he assumes to be Holly and her boyfriend, and while he hears the sound of voices, he cannot hear what's said, and states he didn't interpret an argument or any shouting.  He sees them kneeling and facing each other, and suspects they *may* be arguing, so for some reason he calls to report this to their mother.  Mother immediately knows it wasn't the boyfriend, because he was off turkey hunting (although the man in the garage was wearing camouflage, and how the mother just knew the boyfriend didn't pop by to visit, I'm not sure).

So brother Clint watches his sister and camo guy walking towards the woods, in which he interprets his sister as going completely of her own will, and not being coerced or dragged.  And the mother's response - "Git a gun and shoot him!".  It doesn't even matter to me at this point that I know this girl was murdered by this man.  There is no way in hell the mother knew this.  And I realize it's Tennessee, but to order her son to go murder someone without any idea of the situation is absolutely reckless.  Is this Clint a marksman?  What are the odds he kills his sister instead?  And I have to believe the authorities found the whole scene bizarre, or they wouldn't have investigated Clint so thoroughly.  And for Elizabeth not to have responded to the mom - WTF, you knew nothing of what was going on but you wanted your son to murder someone?  What on earth were you thinking? 

And especially after what just happened in Las Vegas, I just have no patience for this bullshit.  More thoughts later . . . .
 

[Madding crowd]

I didn't understand why the brother didn't go out there and make sure his sister was ok. Watching through the window and calling his mom rather than walking outside-not right.

[mamadrama]

I've always had the feeling that the bro was a little "off." And what made the mother so suspcious right off the bat?

Do you all have your own theories?

[CaughtOnTape]

Harvey Weinstein is a tool but I can't deal with Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie's claims that they didn't say anything because they were afraid of what he'd do to their careers.  Both are women who were born into Hollywood royalty and would have been believed had they said something.  I don't want to start pointing fingers at women who don't talk, because I get it, but the two of them specifically made me angry.  Brad Pitt knew.  Ben Affleck knew.  All of them have blood on their hands - so to speak.  The whole thing is very irritating because those in power are more concerned with saying they didn't know then taking responsibility for what they DID know about.  And the worst part about all of this is nothing will change.  Hollywood has always worked like this.  The ending where they highlighted Louis B. Mayer and his indiscretions proves it.  Another powerful male will just slide into his space.

[RedheadZombie]

The clown murder was weird.  I felt like Marlene's elderly mother was rather strange with her entire obsession with clowns.  The story was presented in a way that made the murder victim merely incidental.  I couldn't figure out why they never again mentioned Marlene's son.  I did a little googling, and he was from a previous marriage.  Since he was an actual witness to the crime, I'm surprised he was never interviewed - his own grandparents didn't even speak of him.  They didn't go into good enough detail about how Marlene's husband responded to her murder, or why she would tell her parents that Mike would be responsible, "if something happened to her".  Could they not even find a friend of Marlene's to speak of her state during that time?

If they'd left her clown-obsessed mother out of it, they could have covered these things.  And I didn't really care for the repeated interviews with the neighbors in Virginia.  It seemed like all of these people were fillers because they couldn't get close enough to the people actually present that day.

This feels like the complete opposite of the Dateline story a week or two ago, that spent 80% of the time on the victim, telling us very little about the murderer.  I feel I shouldn't have to google to get relevant information.  Don't they have editors on these programs?

[walnutqueen]

Your dear daughter is brutally murdered by a clown.  Of course you have a clown room with many clown paintings that you reminisce about in loving terms.  That's not weird.  At all.

Everyone grieves differently, for sure.

[BusyOctober]

On 10/21/2017 at 3:46 PM, walnutqueen said:

Your dear daughter is brutally murdered by a clown.  Of course you have a clown room with many clown paintings that you reminisce about in loving terms.  That's not weird.  At all.

Everyone grieves differently, for sure.

No kidding!  Those things would  have been tossed to the curb on the next trash day. Even if I really enjoyed something or collected something before the tragedy, I still think I'd get rid of those items if they were so closely tied to the death of a loved one.  I would always associate that object with the death/murder.  I knew a co-worker who loved Harley's.  He owned a few, fixed them, rode with a few clubs, and had a Harley Davidson themed bar in his basement.  On one road trip, a good buddy of his & that guy's 22 yr old son had a fatal accident.  The son died on scene & the dad was paralyzed.  He died within a year or so from his injuries. My co-worker was devastated.  After the accident, he stopped ridding and slowly gave away anything to do with motorcycles.

Personally, I have always found clowns creepy. When they showed that "circus room" I shuddered.  Even as a kid, at the circus I asked my grandmother why people thought the clown was funny.  I remember thinking "he's really very sad and just pretending he's having fun."  It freaked me out when I was 5, and almost 45 years later, I still see nothing fun, silly or entertaining about clowns.  

[Angeltoes]

The girlfriend dressing up like a clown really points to the husband being behind it all.  He probably said,"She loves clowns, she'll answer the door for one and nobody will know it's you!"  All in all, it really is an ingenious way to get away with murder, except I don't think I'd go to the local costumer shop to get the outfit.

[CaughtOnTape]

I cannot believe these news magazine shows sometimes and it's sad to see 20/20 has become more the TMZ of these shows when it wasn't always that way.

The "investigation" into the Vegas shooting left me shaking my head and I turned it off after 15 minutes.  Look, just report on the facts and let me make my own conclusion.  Stop with the sensationalism of things.  

There's a sign in the lobby saying "no weapons allowed" but because of privacy laws the hotel really can't enforce that unless you walk through the lobby with your knife, gun, oozie hanging out for the world to see.  I don't think this dipshit did that, hence how he got upstairs with "a stockpile" of weapons.  And I'm tired of the media trying to put the hotel at fault for that.  Look, if we're going to have to go through a metal detector and have my bag scanned every time I walk into a hotel...it's gonna cause people to get shitty real quick.  

Then ten minutes later "Jesus Campos is shot a full SIX MINUTES before he started shooting at the concert goers."  As if Jesus stood there filing his nails and no one showed any sense of urgency even though a security guard had been shot.  Did they expect law enforcement or hotel security to be fortune tellers or mind readers and know that this dude was gonna break out a window and start shooting at a concert hundreds of feet away?  As far as they knew some freak with a gun shot a security guard and that was that.  

20/20 should be ashamed of itself.

[SunnyBeBe]

Last night was an incredible episode of this show.  OMG.  What an inspiration.  It covered the story of a little boy whose life is VERY much like the book Wonder (and movie).  It was just so inspirational.  I was crying and felt like I had been to church.  I'd recommend you try to watch it online or on a repeat.  

 

[LittleIggy]

Awesome kid with an awesome family!

[Phoebe70]

Yep, great episode.  I loved that they had Christina Aguilera perform for them at her house.

[JudyObscure]

Christa Worthington and the trial and conviction of Christopher McCowen.

This one left me gobsmacked.  McCowen has all these friends saying there's not a speck of violence in the man and yet he had three restraining orders from women he had beaten and/or strangled.    I think the story he told the police sounds about right.  He had sex with Christa while his friend was robbing her and when Christa tried to take her possessions back they killed her.   I don't think the police would have thought to make up that detail of,  "After she fell down we went to the boots."

But Christa herself. Who chooses a baby daddy who is married with six children and expects him to become her very own devoted family guy?  That letter she wrote to his wife was just plain cruel

[Jpxfactor]

Yes I believe he is totally guilty...and she wasn't a very nice person.

[sinycalone]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Christa Worthington and the trial and conviction of Christopher McCowen.

This one left me gobsmacked.  McCowen has all these friends saying there's not a speck of violence in the man and yet he had three restraining orders from women he had beaten and/or strangled.    I think the story he told the police sounds about right.  He had sex with Christa while his friend was robbing her and when Christa tried to take her possessions back they killed her.   I don't think the police would have thought to make up that detail of,  "After she fell down we went to the boots."

But Christa herself. Who chooses a baby daddy who is married with six children and expects him to become her very own devoted family guy?  That letter she wrote to his wife was just plain cruel

I think she chose him BECAUSE he had six kids...greater likelihood of getting pregnant.  In spite of being told she would not be able to have a baby...I think she was still determined to get pregnant.  The beginning of the segment portrayed her as an amazing student, from a well-to-do family, successful right out of college basically, etc.  Then we began to see her darker, ugly side.  And, yes, that letter was appalling.  I agreed with the verdict.  Ava Maria Worthington is now 18....and was raised by Christa's friend (named as guardian in Christa's will) and her husband.  A blurb I just read said Susan Jackett had forgiven Tony and Christa, and welcomed mother and child into her home.  I find that hard to believe.

[One Tough Cookie]

I initially {like when it happened} believed he was guilty but after seeing the complete Christa warts and all  I don't know if I could find him guilty. I could believe she invited him in and  he had his fiend {totally  shifty} rob her while she was "otherewise occupied"

IMO she was a terrible person

Edited November 25, 2017 by One Tough Cookie

[Phoebe70]

Another Christa non-fan here.  Most of the time I feel sorry for the murder victims, but I had a difficult time with her.  She had an affair with a married man of 6, wanted it kept secret and then 2 years later wants him to tell his wife (and pay child support).  She then writes horrible letters to the wife about their affair (in great detail)...I was unsure if she actually mailed the letters though.  Her house looked like a pigsty- certainly not how a house should look when a child is living there.  She slept with lord knows how many men.  Ugh...couldn't feel much sympathy for her.

[AZChristian]

If Christa hadn't been murdered, this whole relationship mess would have made a great episode for Maury Povich.  How many guys would have had to be DNA tested and heard the happy words, "You are NOT the father."

[Christina]

At some point yesterday, I watched an old episode Driven to Kill about the murder of Tim MacNeil by his stepchildren. You learn it was them in the first few minutes, so that isn't a spoiler. The show wasn't a whodunnit.

The kids' mother was either suffering from a undiagnosed major mental health condition or was evil to the core and passed that trait down to her daughter. She was absolutely terrifying, and I actually had a nightmare about her. It's not very often that children on these shows scare me. Those twins who killed their mom, for example, were horrible people but didn't effect me.

The only other kid I can think of that scared me like Brae did, was Philip Chism, a fourteen year old who sexually assaulted and murdered his teacher. I watched his trial and the things he did to try and get some control, like shitting on the floor of his holding cell then smearing on himself, twice, only to have the judge say that the next time he did something to delay trial, it would be considered a waiver of his right to be present, was very disturbing. There was obviously something not right about him, but he wasn't diagnosed with anything that would explain his evilness. He attacked with intent to kill another woman, and it's very clear that he will kill again, just like Brae. Her brother probably won't though; there was something inherently evil about Brae that he didn't seem to have.

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't one I remembered seeing before, and if it was covered by another show, I don't remember it, so that was nice. They didn't try and suggest it may have been someone else, only to come back at the last minute and show it was them, like Dateline likes to do with their two hour shows. 

Driven to Kill Article and YouTube link

[ari333]

Birdman, catfish eppy/ Wow. and yikes. So it  is legal to see a 17 yr old naked and have sex with her, but if there is a photo it is child porn. ANd she had ID that she was 21 AND she had made it thru the airport with the ID so that makes it seem legit. . I dont know why these girls send nudes photos with their faces (or at all) to anyone. I'd be horrified even as a teen back in the day (we only had polaroids heh) And what 17 yr old goes to meet a stranger that she had never even spoken with on the phone? That seems dangerous. I am an old fart.

Oddly Paris (the 17 yr old) seemed smiley when they said that her nude photos were all over the internet. She didn't seem that upset. Quite the contrary. Oooooh everyone wants to see me nehkid. I am all that. 

[walnutqueen]

27 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Birdman, catfish eppy/ Wow. and yikes. So it  is legal to see a 17 yr old naked and have sex with her, but if there is a photo it is child porn. ANd she had ID that she was 21 AND she had made it thru the airport with the ID so that makes it seem legit. . I dont know why these girls send nudes photos with their faces (or at all) to anyone. I'd be horrified even as a teen back in the day (we only had polaroids heh) And what 17 yr old goes to meet a stranger that she had never even spoken with on the phone? That seems dangerous. I am an old fart.

Oddly Paris (the 17 yr old) seemed smiley when they said that her nude photos were all over the internet. She didn't seem that upset. Quite the contrary. Oooooh everyone wants to see me nehkid. I am all that. 

Repeat, but timely, since the last episode of Law & Order: SVU used that exact plot, along with a rape fantasy scenario.

What kind of fucked up twit would "fall in love" with that fucked up twit?  Oh, wait - I just answered my own question.

I'm pretty sure the world is full of people who have to deal with their sick old Mum's poop without shitting on strangers.

The internet is Dark and Full of Terrors.

[ari333]

47 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Repeat, but timely, since the last episode of Law & Order: SVU used that exact plot, along with a rape fantasy scenario.

What kind of fucked up twit would "fall in love" with that fucked up twit?  Oh, wait - I just answered my own question.

I'm pretty sure the world is full of people who have to deal with their sick old Mum's poop without shitting on strangers.

The internet is Dark and Full of Terrors.

That 33 yr old woman who looked like a teen and didn't leave the house for 11 years sure did know her internetS. Day-um.  And they rolled the mother in on a bed?  to court....  for her daughter who was not a minor... far from it. Birdman paid a heavy price. The 17 yr old couldnt stop grinning. I smell another kardashian. 

[slasherboy]

On 10/3/2017 at 3:23 PM, RedheadZombie said:

 And I realize it's Tennessee, but to order her son to go murder someone without any idea of the situation is absolutely reckless. 
 

What does this taking place in Tennessee have to do with anything?  Do you believe Tennesseans just go out and shoot first and ask questions later?

[RedheadZombie]

6 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

What does this taking place in Tennessee have to do with anything?  Do you believe Tennesseans just go out and shoot first and ask questions later?

If it's anything like Georgia, yes. 

[Sweet-tea]

I just watched the episode about the cult leader. It did look like he stole a lot of it from Scientology and EST, although the only things I know about EST I learned from watching The Americans. 

I can't believe those women allowed themselves to be branded! They guy is a nut and, as Elizabeth Vargas said, a "schlub."  He's not even good looking or charismatic. How does he get all those women to sleep with him? They must be truly lost. 

Catherine Oxenberg has aged pretty well, but her nose was distracting to me. Bad nose job. 

[Jaded]

‘20/20’ Anchor Elizabeth Vargas to Leave ABC News

[RedheadZombie]

On December 22, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jaded said:

‘20/20’ Anchor Elizabeth Vargas to Leave ABC News

That scares me.  I hope she didn't relapse. She's said that she didn't think she could survive another one. 

[JudyObscure]

Awww,  I hope she didn't relapse, either, I've always liked Elizabeth, and I think she's so beautiful.

Last night I watched an episode on OWN.  Didn't catch the name but it was the one where a young mousey voiced, baby faced guy pretended to be considering buying a boat from the nice owners. He tied the husband and wife together and threw them and the anchor overboard -- alive.  He was so sick and twisted, a true sociopath, and he did more strange and stupid things while in prison. [shudder]

This is why I'm a big Dateline fan but rarely watch 20/20.  I think Dateline has a better handle on just where the line is between interesting true crime, and stuff so dark I'd rather not know. Plus liking the voices of Josh and Keith better and Dateline making more of a story out of the report.  Just my personal limit I think.

[walnutqueen]

28 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Awww,  I hope she didn't relapse, either, I've always liked Elizabeth, and I think she's so beautiful.

Last night I watched an episode on OWN.  Didn't catch the name but it was the one where a young mousey voiced, baby faced guy pretended to be considering buying a boat from the nice owners. He tied the husband and wife together and threw them and the anchor overboard -- alive.  He was so sick and twisted, a true sociopath, and he did more strange and stupid things while in prison. [shudder]

This is why I'm a big Dateline fan but rarely watch 20/20.  I think Dateline has a better handle on just where the line is between interesting true crime, and stuff so dark I'd rather not know. Plus liking the voices of Josh and Keith better and Dateline making more of a story out of the report.  Just my personal limit I think.

This must be about the murders of Thomas and Jackie Hawkes; it has been featured on several true crime shows :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Thomas_and_Jackie_Hawks 

It was a devastating crime - I worked with Tom's brother (also a cop), so have watched most of the shows about it.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

It was a devastating crime - I worked with Tom's brother (also a cop), so have watched most of the shows about it.

OH my gosh, Walnutqueen!  Devastating is the word.  It gave my husband a nightmare last night and I woke up with him trying to unlock my ear.  I'm so sorry for their family, it's hard to imagine a more horrific death.

[walnutqueen]

20 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

OH my gosh, Walnutqueen!  Devastating is the word.  It gave my husband a nightmare last night and I woke up with him trying to unlock my ear.  I'm so sorry for their family, it's hard to imagine a more horrific death.

Not that anyone - EVER - deserves to be murdered, but this couple, by all accounts, were particularly kind, loving and giving; had worked very hard all their lives for this boat and their golden years, but were willing to forgo their dreams to raise a grandchild.  Not fair.

It reminds me of that other crime story (?Florida?) where a midwest farmer Mum & daughter on vacation were taken out on a sunset sightseeing tour & also thrown overboard tied to cement blocks.  So much horror in this world; so much evil.

[Tenarife60]

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Awww,  I hope she didn't relapse, either, I've always liked Elizabeth, and I think she's so beautiful.

Last night I watched an episode on OWN.  Didn't catch the name but it was the one where a young mousey voiced, baby faced guy pretended to be considering buying a boat from the nice owners. He tied the husband and wife together and threw them and the anchor overboard -- alive.  He was so sick and twisted, a true sociopath, and he did more strange and stupid things while in prison. [shudder]

This is why I'm a big Dateline fan but rarely watch 20/20.  I think Dateline has a better handle on just where the line is between interesting true crime, and stuff so dark I'd rather not know. Plus liking the voices of Josh and Keith better and Dateline making more of a story out of the report.  Just my personal limit I think.

Oh yeah, I think that was the one about the former child actor, Skylar Deleon.  He is still in prison but living as a woman now, even though he's on death row. 

[Tenarife60]

With the Gypsy and Dee Dee case tonight there seems to be some unanswered questions, like why didn't Social Security ever contact the father when Gypsy was getting SSI and Medicaid.  I thought the father would have to sign off on all of that and either prove he was destitute or else have to pay some of her medical expenses.  I think he knew, or was in on some of it so he wouldn't be financially burdened paying for any of Gypsy's bills because he and Gypsy were still talking to one another at times, and before Hurricane Katrina Dee Dee and Gypsy were living in the same town he was, but in public housing they were getting due to Gypsy's "illness."  Strange he never questioned why they were living in public housing and Dee Dee didn't have a job.  He had to know where they were getting their money from.

[LittleIggy]

I remember Gypsy from Dr. Phil. What a horrible mother to do that to her child.

[Guest]

I'm still baffled how you have that many doctors operating on that girl.

I'm doing something wrong.  I had bronchitis.  The doctor wouldn't even give me anything.  Told me to "shake it off".  

I missed work for two weeks because I didn't want to infect my clients. 

How did all this slip through the cracks?  Once, twice maybe.  But all those times? 

[NinaH]

22 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

I'm still baffled how you have that many doctors operating on that girl.

I'm doing something wrong.  I had bronchitis.  The doctor wouldn't even give me anything.  Told me to "shake it off".  

I missed work for two weeks because I didn't want to infect my clients. 

How did all this slip through the cracks?  Once, twice maybe.  But all those times? 

You seriously need to find another provider. Bronchitis is the worst, and you rarely ever just "shake it off" in a few days. More like weeks and weeks and it definitely requires medication. What an ass. 

Dee Dee was able to pull it off bc she was a nasty con artist and played it like a pro. Gypsy was never allowed to speak to the doctors, DD did all the talking and her medical records were conviently "lost" in Katrina. But one dr did see thru her bs but the ball got dropped.  DD got what she deserved imo. What a vile person. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by NinaH

[ari333]

That Gypsy eppy was hard to watch. I want to say she was a prisoner, but she could have reached out if she felt desperate.  I am torn. If someone keeps someone captive and the person has to use violence to escape... well.. I am torn. 

[atlantaloves]

Yeah, me too....I tell you that Mother really did NEED TO DIE, it's a shame that her poor daughter had to be a part of it. Evil evil evil greedy nasty bitch. And, wow, did you see that filthy FREE HOUSE she lived in? She didn't even care enough about all the free things she conned people out of to take care of them. I have seen this case before, but this was a very good episode.  So, do we think the daughter was in on it, or was it justified homicide?