20/20

[TVbitch]

I remember this case from Dateline and other shows and am so glad to see someone from the Adelson family finally being brought to justice. Hope they end up getting more of them. So sad the murder victim's parents don't even get to see their grandkid. 

[Annber03]

That family was a piece of work. I wonder if the one son who was cast out from the family because they didn't approve of who he married is grateful to not be connected to them anymore. 

But yeah, I already got a red flag when they were talking about Donna sitting there alongside Wendi when she was scrolling through that dating site. It's one thing to value your parent's opinions on your significant other in and of itself, to want them to like the person you're going to be with - if I ever met a guy I liked, I would hope that he and my mom would have a good rapport with each other. 

But I also can't ever imagine my mom sitting there alongside me if I were to be scrolling a dating site. I would expect that she would trust my judgment, as a fully grown adult woman, to make my own decisions about who I dated/married. Which I know she would. 

Wendi's interview with the investigators after Danny was shot was one of the weirdest interviews I'd ever seen, and I've seen quite a few on these kinds of shows. Her story about her brother 'joking" about putting a hit on him, only to give her a TV instead. Her reaction upon calling her parents with the news about Danny - "Well, they seemed surprised, so that's a relief." Uh. Okay. How one minute she was crying and the next she looked like she was trying to hide a hint of a smile. If she wasn't actively involved in the murder plot itself, at the very least, I have no doubt she knew what her family was plotting. 

I love how the guys who killed Danny didn't even try to hide their tracks. And I liked Jeffrey just going off about Wendi and her family to the investigators. I was glad that the show pointed out the striking similarity between him and Danny, because, yeah, that was spooky. 

Everything with Katie was super strange and weird, too. Charles is a creepy guy and honestly, I think Katie dodged her own bullet upon breaking up with him. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Everything with Katie was super strange and weird, too. Charles is a creepy guy and honestly, I think Katie dodged her own bullet upon breaking up with him. 

She dodged a bullet by breaking up with him but is sitting in prison for life because she couldn’t stay away from him. 

Looking forward to Donna and Wendi wearing an orange jumpsuit.  Sweet!!!

[Tdoc72]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:24 PM, TVbitch said:

I remember this case from Dateline and other shows and am so glad to see someone from the Adelson family finally being brought to justice. Hope they end up getting more of them. So sad the murder victim's parents don't even get to see their grandkid. 

I think they could maybe get Wendi’s mother, but I don’t think there’s any evidence of her father being involved. I totally think Wendi knew (and gave those involved details) but I think she kept her involvement low key—ie not a lot of text or phone call evidence. So I don’t think they’ll get her. 
I hope the boys can reconcile with the Markel side of the family when they are of age. Maybe even change their names back—I certainly wouldn’t want to be an Adelson now. 

[Guest]

That Charlie Adelson person is touted as a ladies man.  I don’t get it.  Every time I see this…

I think of this..

Seriously, if he wasn’t occupying a cell in prison he could easily play the part of Larry Fine in a Florida dinner theater production of the lives of the Three Stooges. 

[Guest]

Put this in the sooner than later category.  

Donna Adelson has just been arrested at the airport.  Evidently she was getting ready to board a private plane to  Vietnam. 

Wendi…they’re coming for you very soon. 

[lovinbob]

did I listen to a podcast that painted Dan Markel in an unflattering light? 20/20 had Wendi and a friend saying that she felt eclipsed, career-wise, and I think there was a vague suggestion that he was controlling or emotionally abusive, but not much.

I seem to remember listening to a podcast that made him seem like a very difficult person, professionally and personally, and that their initial getting together was unusual, sort of like they each checked off all the boxes for each other. But I can't remember which podcast it was. 

And I recently listed to "The Girlfriends," which was a fucked up story about a Jewish plastic surgeon who murdered his wife. So I might be confusing them. 

[DanaK]

Per ABC's midseason premieres announcement, 20/20 will have an 8-episode true-crime series on Mondays at 10 starting January 22. The series will focus on the most shocking love crimes of all time

http://thefutoncritic.com/news/2023/11/16/abc-announces-2024-midseason-premiere-dates-271312/20231116abc02/

[DanaK]

The mid-season 20/20 series is called “Bad Romance”

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2024/01/19/abc-news-20-20-launches-eight-episode-limited-series-bad-romance-premiering-monday-jan-22-63412/20240119abc02/

[DanaK]

Interview this Friday with Gypsy Rose Blanchard, the woman who helped kill her mother, who had been pretending her daughter was disabled due to Munchhausen Syndrome by Proxy 

[DanaK]

More on Friday’s episode which will be about Blanchard’s story

https://www.laughingplace.com/w/entertainment/new-20-20-features-deep-dive-into-the-dee-dee-and-gypsy-rose-blanchard-story/

[nora1992]

Gypsy Rose Blanchard: why is she out and giving interviews while her boyfriend is in prison for life?  

[Andyourlittledog2]

I just find her 'look everybody I'm a celebrity!' attitude very offputting. She killed her mother (deservedly IMHO) but didn't do it herself, she lured her boyfriend into doing it for her and ruined his entire life. A little shame and humility is in order here,not the faux celebrity tour she has been doing. What was done to her was horrible and I am glad she has a chance at a life now but seriously, tone it the fuck down.

You did a horrible thing and your boyfriend, manipulated by you, is stuck in prison.  You did that, Gypsy, you did that. You killed a woman, your mother, and ruined a boy's life. Act a little less giddy and like you deserve some applause for all of this.

 

[UsernameFatigue]

On 1/27/2024 at 2:17 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I just find her 'look everybody I'm a celebrity!' attitude very offputting. She killed her mother (deservedly IMHO) but didn't do it herself, she lured her boyfriend into doing it for her and ruined his entire life. A little shame and humility is in order here,not the faux celebrity tour she has been doing. What was done to her was horrible and I am glad she has a chance at a life now but seriously, tone it the fuck down.

You did a horrible thing and your boyfriend, manipulated by you, is stuck in prison.  You did that, Gypsy, you did that. You killed a woman, your mother, and ruined a boy's life. Act a little less giddy and like you deserve some applause for all of this.

 

First of all, Godejohn was not a boy when he killed Gypsy's mother. He was a 26 yr old man. And a sick MOFO who had fantasies of murdering someone. He didn't need to be manipulated, he was doing exactly what he wanted to do. 

While this site was down I watched the 6 part series, The Prison Confessions of Gypsy Rose Blanchard. It was worth the watch. There were interviews with many people other than Gypsy, including her maternal grandfather, uncle, cousin, and two of her doctors. It was quite eye opening. 

Gypsy claimed that her grandfather molested her from the age of 9. Interesting, as in one of his interviews, the interviewer asked him about Gypsy claiming abuse. The interviewer did not say what form of abuse, but the grandfather went right to sexual, and claimed that Gypsy tried to seduce him from the age of 4. Another MOFO right there. 

It was amazing how many people turned a blind eye, including the two doctors. They had suspicions, but did not pursue. And why did Gypsy only have a grade 2 education? No one checked to see if she was getting an education, and she obviously was not, even home schooling. 

While I don't necessarily believe everything that Gypsy claimed, she was also groomed from a young age to lie, and she was taught by a master manipulator. I am glad that she is out, and hope she is able to make a life.

I did find it funny when the 20/20 interviewer questioned her on putting her life out there for everyone, when they are exploiting her as much as she is exploiting herself. The media is as much to blame for Gypsy being everywhere, as Gypsy is. In any case, I have no problem with Gypsy being out, and Godejohn being in prison. I don't think Gypsy is a threat to anyone, but I do think her ex could be. 

[nora1992]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:00 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

First of all, Godejohn was not a boy when he killed Gypsy's mother. He was a 26 yr old man. And a sick MOFO who had fantasies of murdering someone. He didn't need to be manipulated, he was doing exactly what he wanted to do. 

While this site was down I watched the 6 part series, The Prison Confessions of Gypsy Rose Blanchard. It was worth the watch. There were interviews with many people other than Gypsy, including her maternal grandfather, uncle, cousin, and two of her doctors. It was quite eye opening. 

Gypsy claimed that her grandfather molested her from the age of 9. Interesting, as in one of his interviews, the interviewer asked him about Gypsy claiming abuse. The interviewer did not say what form of abuse, but the grandfather went right to sexual, and claimed that Gypsy tried to seduce him from the age of 4. Another MOFO right there. 

It was amazing how many people turned a blind eye, including the two doctors. They had suspicions, but did not pursue. And why did Gypsy only have a grade 2 education? No one checked to see if she was getting an education, and she obviously was not, even home schooling. 

While I don't necessarily believe everything that Gypsy claimed, she was also groomed from a young age to lie, and she was taught by a master manipulator. I am glad that she is out, and hope she is able to make a life.

I did find it funny when the 20/20 interviewer questioned her on putting her life out there for everyone, when they are exploiting her as much as she is exploiting herself. The media is as much to blame for Gypsy being everywhere, as Gypsy is. In any case, I have no problem with Gypsy being out, and Godejohn being in prison. I don't think Gypsy is a threat to anyone, but I do think her ex could be. 

And yet Godejohn lived 26 years without killing anyone, whatever he might have wanted to do.  The twisted duo of Godejohn and Gypsy didn’t exist for 26 days without a murder.  Folie a deux is the driver of this case.  Strange how she was able to lead a murder conspiracy, but not to go to a police station or different hospital or to her father before anyone died.  She could find her own hitman, but nothing less extreme?

[Pi237]

Some of these people being interviewed get you thinking, "you couldn't Not be high for your 20/20 interview?" Lmao

[SheepishAlligator]

Did they all forget Christian's wallet and IDs were found hidden away in Pedro's closet?!? No excuse for that. Guilty as sin.

[TVbitch]

By the end it seemed like his parents were  resigned to his guilt. They mostly expressed sadness for themselves and Christian's family. I wonder if Erika feels guilty. She should't, but it would be hard not to go there. 

Edited March 4 by TVbitch

[amarante]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:44 PM, Pi237 said:

Some of these people being interviewed get you thinking, "you couldn't Not be high for your 20/20 interview?" Lmao

I am continually amazed at some of the grooming and sartorial choices people make when they know they are being interviewed for a television show.

You don't have to wear a suit and t but maybe not a baseball hat worn backwards? Or the female equivalent?

[DanaK]

[Pi237]

What sick tickets those women were-Ruby will now blame it all on Jodie, but that doesn’t fly with me. She was a fame whore manipulator from the start. Those were your Children! And no excuse for that Dad to not see his kids for a year!! No way would I allow you to keep my kids from me regardless of your threats. Those poor kids.  So many of these abusers use religion to excuse their actions. Ruby reminded me of Lori Vallow-calling her inconvenient children demons while making sure her hair waves were on point for court. 

[Annber03]

22 hours ago, Pi237 said:

What sick tickets those women were-Ruby will now blame it all on Jodie, but that doesn’t fly with me. She was a fame whore manipulator from the start.

Yeah, I'm not totally buying her "Oh, I've realized I did something wrong" turnaround, either. Of course she would be willing to testify against Jodi - more chance for her to potentially get al lighter sentence that way, and it was also likely a suggestion from her lawyers as well. 

But yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, see, this is why I cannot get into the whole YouTube influencer thing in general. I mean, I'm not a parent, so I wouldn't be watching parent vlogs as it is, of any sort...but I have never understood this particular phenomenon of influencers in general, and I think any parents who try to monetize their lives with their children online like that - not saying they'll all turn out to be abusers, but I think the potential is rather high, because they're willing to put their kids in the public eye like that, and they're often young kids who don't have the ability to really consent to that sort of thing in the first place, and...yeah. It's just...too weird for me. Stories like this don't really surprise me all that much, it just seems the inevitable end result of a culture where everyone has to broadcast every last detail of their lives on social media like that. 

And then you add in the creepy conservative religious angle as well and that is just a recipe for disaster the whole way around.

Quote

So many of these abusers use religion to excuse their actions. Ruby reminded me of Lori Vallow-calling her inconvenient children demons while making sure her hair waves were on point for court. 

My mom made the same comparison when we were watching. It's definitely not mere coincidence that both those women were involved in super conservative religious stuff. We're just fortunate that these children were able to be saved before they met the same tragic end that Lori's children did. 

But yeah, when they started talking about how the husbands in Jodi's groups were accused of having "porn addictions", I knew the religion angle would be a factor before they even said it aloud. Jodi's whole "lifestyle consultant" thing or whateveri t was she claimed to be felt VERY much like those "self-help groups" that are basically covers for super religious cult-y creepy stuff, so again, it's not exactly a surprise there was abuse as a result of that. The fact that so many of her clients came from church recommendations, and you consider just HOW entwined the Mormon faith is in virtually every aspect of life in Utah in general...see, this is why we need to keep a strict, hard line between church and other parts of people's lives. That's just deeply unsettling. Especially when you consider that the church can use virtually ANYTHING as a "problem" that needs to be fixed by someone like Jodi. That bit with her when she was in prison, going on about how it was fitting that she'd be unjustly imprisoned only to wind up spreading the gospel...like, honey, no. Do not flatter yourself. Shut up. 

I did have to love the sheer irony of her being sent to a jail called Purgatory, though :D. 

Anywho, so yeah, my heart goes out to those poor children - those photos were horrific. I hope they are able to get all the help and support they need going forward. 

Edited March 24 by Annber03

[UsernameFatigue]

I don't for a minute believe that Ruby regretted the horrific abuse she subjected her children to. She played the system, trying to get a lighter sentence. 

Did I miss it, or did they actually say who was looking after the middle aged children at the time the abuse was happening to the younger kids?  The father was gone, Ruby moved to Jodi's with the two youngest, so who was looking after the middle kids? When the police went to the house where the family had originally lived, they then said the kids were at a neighbours. Did the neighbours take the kids in? 

So many people dropped the ball on this, including CPS and the police. Geez, even viewers of Ruby's site tried to bring attention to the care the kids were getting in 2020 by starting a petition. 

I don't understand why Ruby and Jodi were not charged with attempted murder. I guess it didn't fit the legal definition, but that is what it was. 

 

[Realitystarr]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Did I miss it, or did they actually say who was looking after the middle aged children at the time the abuse was happening to the younger kids?  The father was gone, Ruby moved to Jodi's with the two youngest, so who was looking after the middle kids? When the police went to the house where the family had originally lived, they then said the kids were at a neighbours. Did the neighbours take the kids in? 

I  went down the rabbit hole with this one.  The middle girls  went to stay with their older sister when they were found at the house of the employee of Ruby/Jodi.

UDATE: Found another story with more details of both Kevin having Shari arrested  and the girls not wanting to stay with her but rather the 'neigbor'emplyee"

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/10/07/ruby-franke-case-kevin-franke/

Their only options were to either stay with Shari Franke or stay with a foster family, the DCFS worker explained. The ConneXions employee prayed with the girls as they packed up their belongings, the records state.

When an officer and a DCFS worker tried to search one of the girls’ backpacks, the girl became “very defiant,” telling authorities they “needed a warrant to do that,” the documents note.

The officer explained that a warrant wasn’t needed for the precautionary search, because she and her sister were being placed into state custody.

 

 

Edited March 24 by Realitystarr

[Realitystarr]

Kevin the husband/father is a BYU PROFESSOR but didnt' know what 'emaciated' means and also lacks critical thinking skills.

Kevin Franke told police that he believed the home had been burglarized because the front door was kicked in, and that several electronics were missing, which contained his “electronic journals,” according to police documents. He told an officer that he suspected his eldest daughter was responsible, citing a statement that he alleged Shari Franke had made in an unspecified court hearing that day.

Police documents do not specify Shari’s alleged statement, but an officer explained to Kevin Franke that the door was breached when Springville police entered the home on Aug. 30 while serving the DCFS warrant.

The officer told Kevin that police went with Shari to the home on Aug. 31 to retrieve personal items for two of her siblings.

He was an abusive POS and cosigned all the horrible things Ruby was doing to those poor kids for years and now has everyone thinking he's a model husband who will 'save' the kids by getting custody when he just left and hadn't had a contact for a year.

 

I could go on and on ...https://people.com/ruby-franke-husband-allegedly-tried-have-daughter-arrested-burglary-charge-8361959

Edited March 24 by Realitystarr

[UsernameFatigue]

58 minutes ago, Realitystarr said:

I  went down the rabbit hole with this one.  The middle girls  went to stay with their older sister when they were found at the house of the employee of Ruby/Jodi.

UDATE: Found another story with more details of both Kevin having Shari arrested  and the girls not wanting to stay with her but rather the 'neigbor'emplyee"

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/10/07/ruby-franke-case-kevin-franke/

Their only options were to either stay with Shari Franke or stay with a foster family, the DCFS worker explained. The ConneXions employee prayed with the girls as they packed up their belongings, the records state.

When an officer and a DCFS worker tried to search one of the girls’ backpacks, the girl became “very defiant,” telling authorities they “needed a warrant to do that,” the documents note.

The officer explained that a warrant wasn’t needed for the precautionary search, because she and her sister were being placed into state custody.

 

 

So even the article isn't clear as to where the two middle sisters were staying while their mother and two younger siblings were living with Jodi. The employee said that the girls sometimes did housework and chores at her residence. Since the older brother was 18 at the time, and the younger brother who was being abused was 12 I think, the middle sisters were somewhere between 13 and 17 years old? So were they on their own at the family house? Just bizarre all around, and that their living arrangement at the time never seems to have been clarified. Should that not have be added to the list of charges against their mother if they were left at the home alone? Mind you I guess they were better off there than with their mother......

Edited March 24 by UsernameFatigue

[TVbitch]

Sounds like the middle kids have been brainwashed against Shari and the police by Kevin, Ruby and Jodi. Hopefully none of these kids will ever be subjected to the lot of them ever again. Hard to believe after perpetrating that kind of torture and abuse, Ruby will be out of prison in a couple years, with Jodi probably not far behind. 

I didn't buy that while in jail Ruby came to realize what she had done. If she truly had, as a mother, she would be utter inconsolable and unable to live with herself. I'm sure she thinks she will get out of jail and start a new "brand" as someone who overcame Jodi's manipulation and made mistakes but is now the best mother in the world! 

[DanaK]

Another limited series edition of 20/20 called “The Interrogation Tapes” on Mondays at 10pm and the next day on Hulu. The series premieres April 1

https://www.laughingplace.com/w/entertainment/abc-2020-the-interrogation-tapes/

[mostlylurking]

Watching the Ruby Frankie story now. Just awful. Made me so sad to see that little girl crying when Ruby said she’d cut off the head of her stuffie. Who does that?

I don’t usually watch 20/20. The host never looks at the camera which is very distracting. Like who’s she supposed to be talking to??

[TVbitch]

Wow, talk about world's dumbest murderers. David Muir's incredulous face during his interview with the killers was pretty entertaining. This episode also featured the best victim impact statement I've ever heard. "Are you going to hell? Yeah, you're going to hell. And if I have to forgive you to avoid hell, I'll see you there."

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Wow, talk about world's dumbest murderers. David Muir's incredulous face during his interview with the killers was pretty entertaining. This episode also featured the best victim impact statement I've ever heard. "Are you going to hell? Yeah, you're going to hell. And if I have to forgive you to avoid hell, I'll see you there."

I agree, it was very entertaining! But I think that was Matt Gutman, not David Muir.

 

 

[Pi237]

Am I Next?—

Was Janelle even involved in an online fight with Billy & Billy Jean? Or did she make that up too?  
 

I know they kept saying she had mental challenges, but wow was she a manipulator. Breaking down in tears when she ran out of lies in the interview.  She’s a better liar than her mother, that’s for sure.  Odd family is an understatement. 

[TVbitch]

Janelle's sad kitten baby voice act in the interview was such a bad performance. Mom's "that's my story and I'm sticking to it" wasn't any better. 

[UsernameFatigue]

1.  

6 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Am I Next?—

Was Janelle even involved in an online fight with Billy & Billy Jean? Or did she make that up too?  
 

I know they kept saying she had mental challenges, but wow was she a manipulator. Breaking down in tears when she ran out of lies in the interview.  She’s a better liar than her mother, that’s for sure.  Odd family is an understatement. 

It wasn't until late in the episode that they said that Jenelle was jealous of Billy Jean as she had a crush on Billy. Her jealousy went into overdrive when Billy Jean moved in with Billy and then had the baby. So IIRC there was never any online fight, only Jenelle making it up to get her parents and Jamie to do her bidding. 

The thing is, Jenelle was not bright, but the three she was trying to convince were even less bright than Jenelle. The emails that "Chris" sent were from her own account. How did her parents and Jamie think "Chris" was able to do that? And honestly, a CIA agent sent to protect a woman in Podunk USA  from an online feud? OMFG!! 

Edited April 7 by UsernameFatigue

[pdlinda]

15 hours ago, Arkay said:

I agree, it was very entertaining! But I think that was Matt Gutman, not David Muir.

 

 

Yes, it was Matt Gutman.

[Lsk02]

I would have liked more of the interview with the other daughter/Jenelle’s sister. The short bit they showed, she talked about how manipulative Jenelle was. But did she believe their parents were part of it? Did she think Jenelle was capable of what it looks like was double catfishing? 

[kitmerlot1213]

On 4/7/2024 at 11:48 AM, TVbitch said:

Janelle's sad kitten baby voice act in the interview was such a bad performance. Mom's "that's my story and I'm sticking to it" wasn't any better. 

I kind of loved that the investigators were so cut and dry when they asked point blank why would Billy and Billy Jean be harassing her--I actually cringed when Jenelle answered "Because I'm too pretty."  That level of delusion is hard to break through.

Edited April 8 by kitmerlot1213

[Mondrianyone]

If it hadn't been for the sister exhibiting a higher level of intelligence, I would've concluded there was some inbreeding involved in that family.

[ASpring1900]

Is anyone watching the limited 20/20 series that air Monday nights? I believe the first was over the summer and focused on the layout of homes where murders had occurred? The second had something to do with deadly love, and now this one, focusing on interrogation room interviews. They are just retellings of past 20/20 episodes. However, last night's I hadn't heard of before. Woman's good friends are murdered, she swears it was her ex-boyfriend, but she confides in her current husband, who tells the cops. At this point, between 20/20, Dateline, and 48 Hours covering the same cases numerous times (Dulos and cyclist murder again this past weekend??), it is nice when the case is new to me!

[LakeGal]

I watched the show.  I had seen the case it was based on.  I think most of the 20/20, Dateline, 48 Hrs. type shows have done that case.  

[TVbitch]

I hadn't seen the Interrogation one before either. I was sure the girl was more involved but didn't suspect she was the instigator and her motive. Jeez, what a way to thank the two people in school who were actually nice to you. The parents are declusional if they think it is all the boyfriend's influence.

I like the A&E show Interrogation Raw too, as it also features a lot of cases I've never seen before. 

[Tdoc72]

On 4/7/2024 at 8:25 AM, Pi237 said:

Am I Next?—

Was Janelle even involved in an online fight with Billy & Billy Jean? Or did she make that up too?  
 

 

I wish they would’ve spelled that out clearer. I wondered if the victims even had a computer. 

[DanaK]

A 20/20 special with a Robin Roberts interview with WNBA star Brittney Griner on her detention in Russia on Wednesday, May 1 at 10pm

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wnba-star-brittney-griner-opens-harrowing-russian-detention/story?id=109495984

[GiandujaPie]

The Hungryland Homicide 

I'm surprised the 20/20 forum doesn't get as much activity as the Dateline forum. Anyway, this episode had a case that I had never heard of before. I have a few comments:

They wasted all that time on red herrings like the ventriloquist and pastor, going so far as to include them in the episode description when they had nothing to do with anything. And they made the pastor look bad when he had done nothing wrong other than refusing to take a polygraph. My husband is a lawyer and he says that refusing to take a polygraph should not be used as proof of anything, as he would refuse to take one unless a warrant was issued but since they're not admissible in court, what would be the point. 

The DA or state's attorney seemed like a colossal A-HOLE. Wanting to blame everyone but himself for the crappy deal he ended up agreeing to with the defendant. If the defendant is offering up a plea so quickly that includes substantial prison time, wouldn't that be a red flag that he he's hiding something? Why would you agree to a deal only 2 days later before you had a chance to do some more investigating? And for him to blame the military for not taking jurisdiction just because he ended up being made a fool of by the defendant and defense attorney.  Maybe he should have consulted with the military before agreeing to the deal he made with the defendant. 

Also, I'm surprised that Steven was able to clean up and cover all his tracks as well as he did, other than the surveillance videos. Are we to believe that there was really no blood evidence at all? If he cut her up in pieces, it had to have left some blood evidence in the car or in one of the homes. Did they not luminol either of the homes? 

Another thing that I found amazing was that Steven never asked for an attorney during all of his interrogations with the police. And even when the DA got involved, you'd think he would have wanted to make sure that a legal aid attorney was involved just to make sure that Steven didn't later try to claim that he was denied an attorney. 

Anyway, Steven just seemed like a total sociopath. 

[TVbitch]

48 Hours does not get as much activity as Dateline, either. 

I guess the car did not have a computer to log where its been. Maybe it was an older car.

What was all that business with him going to gas station in her car to get a couple gallons of gas to bring back and put in her car? Just give her a couple dollars for gas and send her on her way. That was obviously a story. He probably got in the car to dispose of the body and realized there was not enough gas for a road trip so he came up with that lie cuz he knew he'd be seen on the gas station video in her car.  

So he was obviously planning to kill her as evidenced by him ordering the acid online and buying the bin and such, so WHY would he decide to kill her in an Air BnB he rented?! And call her over in the middle of the night. Like you don't think that will be really suspicious?!

 

[Madding crowd]

This was a really creepy case ; when I heard about him pulling her teeth out with pliers and pre-ordering acid it made me pray no one I know ever meets someone so evil. It was obvious he was the killer from the start. I always wonder too why the Dateline forum gets so much more traffic than this one and 48 hours. I watch all of them!

[pdlinda]

13 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

This was a really creepy case ; when I heard about him pulling her teeth out with pliers and pre-ordering acid it made me pray no one I know ever meets someone so evil. It was obvious he was the killer from the start. I always wonder too why the Dateline forum gets so much more traffic than this one and 48 hours. I watch all of them!

I also watch all 3 shows. 

In this case, my overriding comment is (after doing criminal defense work for MANY YEARS) that this was DEFINITELY, 100% a DEATH PENALTY CASE because of the extremely ATROCIOUS manner of her death!  Also, the premeditation and planning. 

I was also very interested in how effectively he covered his tracks at each and every point on the timeline connecting him to the crime with credible alibis. 

He's no "dummy" and he, obviously had a decent lawyer to have gotten the State to offer him that RIDICULOUSLY LENIENT PLEA AGREEMENT!

 

[rlc]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:29 PM, GiandujaPie said:

They wasted all that time on red herrings like the ventriloquist and pastor, going so far as to include them in the episode description when they had nothing to do with anything.

How could they not go for the low-hanging fruit? Come on- a ventriloquist? I've been watching these shows for a lot of years, and I'm pretty sure this was the first ventriloquist I've seen in the mix, red herring or otherwise. How could they possibly resist?

[TVbitch]

The killer was a pretty convincing guy ...until he decided to come up with that ridiculous story about how he just happened to have consenual sex with the victim immediately before she was murdered (by someone else!). Can't believe the wife still stands by him after that. Thank goodness for genetic genealogy justice!

[ljenkins782]

5 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The killer was a pretty convincing guy ...until he decided to come up with that ridiculous story about how he just happened to have consenual sex with the victim immediately before she was murdered (by someone else!). Can't believe the wife still stands by him after that. Thank goodness for genetic genealogy justice!

This episode felt a little weirdly edited. They had that interview footage with the wife where she paints him as this great guy as well as several other people saying the same thing, but they don't mention that interrogation footage where he talks about all the girls he was sleeping with at that time. I don't think they were married yet, but they were together and living together at the time of this crime and by his own admission, he was having all of these other liaisons with a variety of people. 

Obviously the murders are the worst of his behavior, but he's not admitting that he did those so she is obviously somehow believing him about that. But he DID openly admit to those infidelities, I feel like should be making a dent in the wife's perception of him as a model husband and father, but she seems to be unwavering in her support.

also, since he isn't admitting to doing it, there was no closure in the story as far as what happened. From the gas station to the terrible ending place, there's just no information about what unfolded.

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This was a really creepy case ; when I heard about him pulling her teeth out with pliers and pre-ordering acid it made me pray no one I know ever meets someone so evil. It was obvious he was the killer from the start. I always wonder too why the Dateline forum gets so much more traffic than this one and 48 hours. I watch all of them!

That part about the teeth was so chilling, what an absolutely horrific story.

I pegged him as the killer when he sat there in that interrogation room calling her "the woman" as if she was no one to him. "I mean, we didn't work out, but I didn't want any harm to come to the woman" or some such flippancy. They were married, they have a child, that overly cavalier language in the face of her death was a big red flag. Also, his girlfriend saying how much he liked being a part-time parent and acting like the biggest reason she didn't think he was the murderer was because then he'd be stuck being a full-time parent, that was a real jackass statement too.