Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[BlueSkies]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

The show also had some really good writing at that point as well, too. The end of season 1 - when Amanda joins the cast and Michael starts fully cheating on Jane with Kimberly - up until the end of season 3 is some of my favorite TV ever.

I forgot was Sydney in the first three seasons?

I recall liking her character… or spiced it up a bit 

[Hiyo]

She guested in one episode in season 1, then joined full time at the beginning of season 2 (though didn't make the opening credits until season 3, if I remember correctly).

Edited October 26, 2022 by Hiyo

[juno]

6 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

For me the winner of the most loathesome character has to be Alan from Two and Half Men.  He started off decent enough but somewhere along the way he became just horrible.  Worst thing about him was the way he kept feeling superior to Charlie even though, in every single way, he became a terrible human being who made Charlie Harper look like a prince.

Funny, I have been rewatching this show and I agree totally. He did start off decently where he at least had some appreciation for being given room and board for free. But as time went on, things just didn't make sense in regards to his character.

The fact that he was a successful chiropractor in Southern California made his gross cheapness and his decision to never pitch in all the more strange.

He also became an absolute doormat for all the women in his life, and the women were also protrayed in the worst light, especially Judith who was an absolutely terrible character.

[Bethany]

45 minutes ago, juno said:

He also became an absolute doormat for all the women in his life, and the women were also protrayed in the worst light, especially Judith who was an absolutely terrible character.

The worst thing they did to both Judith and to Alan was to make them horrible parents.  They both started off loving Jake and trying to do the right things for him.  Didn't last.  By the time they turned Jake into the stupidest teenager who ever walked the land they had also turned Judith and Alan into uncaring parents who would always put their own wants and needs ahead of their son.

[Blergh]

Let's also not forget Charlie and Alan's mother Evelyn (Holland Taylor) who started out as merely having had a strained relationship with Charlie  but trying to improve ties with him while being a supportive mother to Alan and doting grandmother to the preteen Jake. ..then wound up becoming even MORE solipsistic than Charlie and oblivious to dysfunctional teen Jake.  She even managed to trivialize having outlived Charlie for a punchline at his memorial service. UGH!

 Any questions as to why I bailed on that show long before (and just tuned to see if they'd even attempt to show civility re Charlie's character's death) ? Even Berta (the last likable character) wasn't enough to keep me around.

[juno]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:08 PM, Blergh said:

Let's also not forget Charlie and Alan's mother Evelyn (Holland Taylor) who started out as merely having had a strained relationship with Charlie  but trying to improve ties with him while being a supportive mother to Alan and doting grandmother to the preteen Jake. ..then wound up becoming even MORE solipsistic than Charlie and oblivious to dysfunctional teen Jake.  She even managed to trivialize having outlived Charlie for a punchline at his memorial service. UGH!

 Any questions as to why I bailed on that show long before (and just tuned to see if they'd even attempt to show civility re Charlie's character's death) ? Even Berta (the last likable character) wasn't enough to keep me around.

My biggest pet peeve about TV shows.

They did this with David Spade in Rules of Engagement when he went from annoying dirtbag women chaser to sadistic monster the way he treated Timmy.

I was binging Two and a Half Men but had to stop in season 5. In the episode where I stopped, Alan had loaned Charlie $38.00 and the repulsive behavior Alan showed in trying to get the money back was so horrible that I gave up. Even though this got him kicked out finally, he made it back.

The years of sponging and having Charlie pay for his room, board, entertainment, his kid, and his girlfriends was not enough for him to tell Charlie not to worry about it. But the fact that it took Charlie so long to finally throw him out and then bring him back made the show worthless to me. I still can't believe I made it through this garbage in the first place.

[Spartan Girl]

On 10/26/2022 at 9:44 PM, juno said:

He also became an absolute doormat for all the women in his life, and the women were also protrayed in the worst light, especially Judith who was an absolutely terrible character.

I think Lyndsey was worse than Judith. Aside from one or two post-divorce trysts, Judith at least didn’t keep stringing Alan along. Lyndsey, on the other hand, was an endless abusive cycle of dumping Alan for some another guy only to go psycho jealous whenever he tried to move on, but never made it a secret how much “better” she could do than him when they WERE together. She was the very definition of toxic.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Bethany]

7 hours ago, juno said:

I was binging Two and a Half Men but had to stop in season 5.

My husband really likes this show so I've seen most of the episodes right up until when Charlie Sheen leaves the show.  We tuned in for the first episode with Walden and that was it for us.

On 10/27/2022 at 10:08 PM, Blergh said:

She even managed to trivialize having outlived Charlie for a punchline at his memorial service. UGH!

It was so obvious that Chuck Lorre was using this episode to spit on Charlie Sheen and it was awful.  First off (disregard the finale here) Rose murdered Charlie and no one blinks an eye; Evelyn and the others barely acknowledge they've lost a family member; women he had been involved with all come to the funeral acting like they hated him.  It was pathetic.

[Blergh]

Of course, it also needs to be said that the US American Mike Stivic was an improvement over his British counterpart Mike Rawlins (Anthony Booth-  future father-in-law of  British Prime Minister Tony Blair)  who openly had decided to permanently 'stay on the dole' (living off of both his father-in-law and the British taxpayers) and refuse to work  with no other goals or ambitions while living in his in-laws' house. At least Mr. Stivic was going to college with the goal to better himself via education and become a reliable support to his wife Gloria.  Yes, that whole deal (and his character) got trashed by the time of Archie Bunker's Place but that had been his goal in AITF.

In addition to everything else mentioned about Alf, he also was constantly threatening to hit his grown daughter with zero affection for her- unlike Archie who always had a sympathetic bond with Gloria despite their differing points of view and her having wed the Meathead.

And the most positive emotion one could feel for Alf's downtrodden wife Else was pity as had none of Edith's positive spirit or resilience but had long since resigned herself to chomping the bit at her lot (yes, I guess that would have been more realistic but she wasn't as easy for audiences to love as Edith proved to be). And she wasn't fair-minded to those of differing backgrounds as Edith was. 

Oh, one thing that was perfectly acceptable  then but is rather appalling in retrospect is when Mike and Rita had their baby son Michael in 1972 ,all  the so-called adult characters and performers  thought nothing of smoking cigarettes and cigars in the very same tiny quarters as the baby character and performer.

Yes, all the British characters (with the possible exception of the daughter Rita who Gloria was based on) were far less appealing and more caustic than their US counterparts.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Of course, it also needs to be said that the US American Mike Stivic was an improvement over his British counterpart Mike Rawlins (Anthony Booth-  future father-in-law of  British Prime Minister Tony Blair)  who openly had decided to permanently 'stay on the dole' (living off of both his father-in-law and the British taxpayers) and refuse to work  with no other goals or ambitions while living in his in-laws' house. At least Mr. Stivic was going to college with the goal to better himself via education and become a reliable support to his wife Gloria.  Yes, that whole deal (and his character) got trashed by the time of Archie Bunker's Place but that had been his goal in AITF.

There was a real romanticisation of unemployed men - either by choice or by circumstance - in 1970s British sitcoms. Mike Rawlins was one, Wolfie Smith was another - a would-be revolutionary with a following of one, in Citizen Smith. Terry Collier from Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads? as well. Frank Spencer could never keep a job. Fletcher and co. in Porridge obviously never did an honest day's work.

I suppose they were reflective of Britain's own economic malaise in that decade. The prospects of finding decent work were slim, so why even try? Maybe we'll see a revival of characters like that, in the coming years...

Edited October 30, 2022 by Danny Franks

[DrSpaceman73]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

This is kind of the problem when American TV takes British shows and gives them a makeover. Archie Bunker was based on Alf Garnett, but someone involved in the production decided he needed to be lovable and sympathetic in some ways, presumably to make him palatable to audiences. That ended up just undermining the point of the character, and the way the characters opposed to him worked.

Alf Garnett was a reprehensible figure. Racist, misogynist, anti-Semitic, a staunch believer in a class system that he was near the bottom of (but at least he was a white man), he lied about serving during the Second World War. He loved the Tories but hated Thatcher because he didn't think a woman should be in power. He was cruel and insulting to his wife and his daughter.

He was a hypocrite who always blamed his problems on anyone but himself, and would never admit he was wrong. He was supposed to be reviled and always the butt of the joke.

So you're suggesting it's a PROBLEM that in the American version they are more human and relatable rather than just a straight up black or white(not race but from a good/bad perppective)  caricature?  

I guess I'd rather the characters be more like that. 

19 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

My husband really likes this show so I've seen most of the episodes right up until when Charlie Sheen leaves the show.  We tuned in for the first episode with Walden and that was it for us.

It was so obvious that Chuck Lorre was using this episode to spit on Charlie Sheen and it was awful.  First off (disregard the finale here) Rose murdered Charlie and no one blinks an eye; Evelyn and the others barely acknowledge they've lost a family member; women he had been involved with all come to the funeral acting like they hated him.  It was pathetic.

I mean it's chuck Lorre. Nuance and subtlety do not exist in his writing or shows.  Broad humor I guess is the term....call it just bad lazy writing. I expected nothing less when Charlie was written off the show

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

This is kind of the problem when American TV takes British shows and gives them a makeover. Archie Bunker was based on Alf Garnett, but someone involved in the production decided he needed to be lovable and sympathetic in some ways, presumably to make him palatable to audiences. That ended up just undermining the point of the character, and the way the characters opposed to him worked.

Alf Garnett was a reprehensible figure. Racist, misogynist, anti-Semitic, a staunch believer in a class system that he was near the bottom of (but at least he was a white man), he lied about serving during the Second World War. He loved the Tories but hated Thatcher because he didn't think a woman should be in power. He was cruel and insulting to his wife and his daughter.

He was a hypocrite who always blamed his problems on anyone but himself, and would never admit he was wrong. He was supposed to be reviled and always the butt of the joke.

I do remember hearing a story about how, when there were plans to put Archie Bunker's chair in the Smithsonian, apparently there were letters of protest from people who felt that a character like Archie didn't deserve to be honored like that. So even with the sympathetic bent his character got on the show, he still rubbed some viewers the wrong way, it seems. 

[Zella]

Honestly I tried to watch All in the Family a couple of years ago and was excited to do so because it's considered such a classic TV show. I've watched and enjoyed a lot of shows from the same time period and earlier, but I couldn't handle more than a few episode because I thought Archie Bunker was absolutely intolerable. I understand what the show was trying to do, but I found nothing charming or likable about him at all. I didn't like Mike or Gloria either. I felt sorry for Edith.

It was like being trapped at some hellish Thanksgiving dinner where people are bloviating assholes for the sake of being bloviating assholes, and you're supposed to just deal with it because they're "family." No fucking thank you. I am pretty sure my blood pressure spiked every time I tried to sit through an episode. 

I also know more than a handful of people who like Archie not because of any sense of charm the show tried to give him but because they have absolutely no problem with any of his more hateful beliefs and they think he's "telling like it is." 

So yeah I am always surprised when people say they like the character. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Zella

[Annber03]

That's one reason I always find it funny when people talk about how a show like "All in the Family" couldn't be made today because some would complain about it being too offensive. Some people probably would complain, yes...but I think the people who make that claim would be surprised at just who would do a lot of the complaining. I could see a lot of viewers who sympathized with Archie, for instance, getting all upset about the show being so "mean" to his character over his attitude on things. Norman Lear would be accused of being "too woke" in some quarters if he were making that show now. 

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

Honestly I tried to watch All in the Family a couple of years ago and was excited to do so because it's considered such a classic TV show. I've watched and enjoyed a lot of shows from the same time period and earlier, but I couldn't handle more than a few episode because I thought Archie Bunker was absolutely intolerable. I understand what the show was trying to do, but I found nothing charming or likable about him at all. I didn't like Mike or Gloria either. I felt sorry for Edith.

It was like being trapped at some hellish Thanksgiving dinner where people are bloviating assholes for the sake of being bloviating assholes, and you're supposed to just deal with it because they're "family." No fucking thank you. I am pretty sure my blood pressure spiked every time I tried to sit through an episode. 

I also know more than a handful of people who like Archie not because of any sense of charm the show tried to give him but because they have absolutely no problem with any of his more hateful beliefs and they think he's "telling like it is." 

So yeah I am always surprised when people say they like the character. 

Same here. Everyone except Edith was terrible. 

[Haleth]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Same here. Everyone except Edith was terrible. 

Never mind.  Misread.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Haleth

[bluegirl147]

I watched AITF when I was much younger.  Didn't always get the jokes but the ones I did get I found funny.  But once I was an adult and would see an episode I would cringe a lot.  Some things were still funny but there was a lot that now I understood I didn't find funny at all.  

I still find the Jefferson's funny.  And Maude as well.  I think one reason I don't find AITF as funny any more is because back then we were supposed to think of Archie as being on the wrong side of things but now he would be looked at as a role model by some people. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by bluegirl147

[Danny Franks]

21 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

So you're suggesting it's a PROBLEM that in the American version they are more human and relatable rather than just a straight up black or white(not race but from a good/bad perppective)  caricature?  

I guess I'd rather the characters be more like that. 

I think it's a problem when the character ends up being loved unironically, seen as the hero of the show and held up as a great example of 'old fashioned American values' or whatever. Because then things like what @Annber03 mentioned can happen:

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I do remember hearing a story about how, when there were plans to put Archie Bunker's chair in the Smithsonian, apparently there were letters of protest from people who felt that a character like Archie didn't deserve to be honored like that. So even with the sympathetic bent his character got on the show, he still rubbed some viewers the wrong way, it seems. 

Warren Mitchell, the socialist Jewish actor who played Alf Garnett, said that he was approached many times by people who didn't get the joke and thought they were supposed to be on Garnett's side when he went on a tirade about immigrants and women. They thanked him for 'saying it like it is'. If you make the character more sympathetic, you're likely to get even more people thinking that it's a tacit endorsement of some of their worst views.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Danny Franks

[Avabelle]

Peyton Sawyer - she was such an asshole. A terrible friend yet so pathetically needy to Lucas. So selfish. A victim in every scenario. So annoying to watch.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Since I’m doing another watch of ER (almost done with S2), I hate Chloe, Susan’s sister. I thought Abby’s selfishness throughout her run and near-instant redemption after her relapse in S14 pissed me off but Chloe is as bad if not worse. She disappears and left Susan to raise her baby for months alone, then comes back with her 13th step boyfriend from AA who she’s already engaged to, gives some script speech about how she’s ready to be a good mom “with the help of God” and demands her baby back. (Unfortunately Chloe getting visitation and being able to move away with the baby does happen in reality since courts heavily side with the custodial parent.) 

It was just so fake to me, and I love when Susan tells her that she is not going to buy Chloe’s act that easily and isn’t convinced of her total life change that happened in less than six months.  

ETA: The actress that plays Chloe does seem to always get cast as annoying relative or something similar. She was Liz in Gilmore Girls too and I think she was a perp on SVU. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[Egg McMuffin]

I find the early episodes of All in the Family tough to take because Archie can be really hateful. But as run continues, Archie mellows a bit, and Mike matures a bit and Mike finally figures out why Archie is the way he is. This happens in the bottle episode “Two’s a Crowd”, where Mike realizes how much Archie worshiped his father, even though the man was physically abusive and also a bigot. It’s like one of those dogs who is kicked by his master but still loyal. It’s a heartbreaking and pivotal episode. The Stivics moved away shortly after that, which was just as well, because I couldn’t see Mike continuing to argue with Archie in the same way after “Two’s a Crowd.”

[BlueSkies]

18 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I find the early episodes of All in the Family tough to take because Archie can be really hateful. But as run continues, Archie mellows a bit, and Mike matures a bit and Mike finally figures out why Archie is the way he is. This happens in the bottle episode “Two’s a Crowd”, where Mike realizes how much Archie worshiped his father, even though the man was physically abusive and also a bigot. It’s like one of those dogs who is kicked by his master but still loyal. It’s a heartbreaking and pivotal episode. The Stivics moved away shortly after that, which was just as well, because I couldn’t see Mike continuing to argue with Archie in the same way after “Two’s a Crowd.”

There was a pretty good episode where Leonel and everyone but Archie was playing a game "group therapy" or something like that.  Mike had like a real hard time taking constructive criticism.  I recall Edith telling Mike Archie was actually jealous of him because he had a chance to go to college where Archie I think had to drop out of high school to support the family.

 

 

Imo if you can look past his mouth Archie wasn't a bad guy 

[juno]

just going through My Name is Earl and man is Joy (Jaime Pressly) horrible. What a useless and mean character. This show is really good and her character adds just nothing to this show.

[Danny Franks]

I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, but my girlfriend does so I'm sometimes sitting reading or doing something else while it's on. That has been enough for me to utterly loathe the character played by Sandra Oh.

Fucking hell, she is the most unpleasant character on a show that is packed with arrogant narcissists (is that all Shonda Rhimes knows how to write, or something?). Every episode I've seen, she's going through some self-involved crisis that apparently means she's allowed to be deliberately rude, cruel and insensitive to other people. 

Still, as I said, there's barely a single character I've seen on this show who even approaches normal humanity. Even the patients are complete dicks most of the time.

[bluegirl147]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, but my girlfriend does so I'm sometimes sitting reading or doing something else while it's on. That has been enough for me to utterly loathe the character played by Sandra Oh.

Fucking hell, she is the most unpleasant character on a show that is packed with arrogant narcissists (is that all Shonda Rhimes knows how to write, or something?). Every episode I've seen, she's going through some self-involved crisis that apparently means she's allowed to be deliberately rude, cruel and insensitive to other people. 

Still, as I said, there's barely a single character I've seen on this show who even approaches normal humanity. Even the patients are complete dicks most of the time.

I didn't like Christina.  Not even a little. 

 

[scarynikki12]

I have a lot of affection for Christina but that is all due to Sandra Oh. On paper she’s a nightmare. I’m in the middle of a rewatch now and Christina and the other residents are so awful to their interns. They put them down and throw insults in their faces every chance they get. Christina doesn’t even learn the names of the interns she’s supposed to be teaching and refers to them as numbers. Oh and other than a few scenes none of the residents teach their interns anything. They had a whole storyline in season 5 where the interns start practicing on each other due to the failures of their residents yet the only outcome is Christina doesn’t get to do the first solo surgery. I get that was a big deal for her but the outcome should have been something else. When Christina and the others were interns they scrubbed in on surgeries all the time and gained tons of experience. When they became residents they only saw their interns as an opportunity to haze. I kind of wish that story had reached the logical conclusion of everyone failing their end of year exams and bringing these failures to light. Maybe the embarrassment of such a failure would have forced the hospital to change their approach to teaching.

Along those lines hating or disliking Izzie is hardly unusual but rewatches do her no favors. In the third episode of the series Izzie gets so emotionally invested in a brain dead patient she refers to transplant surgeons as vultures and has to be reminded by Christina of all people that his organs will save and improve multiple lives. Another early episode has her judge a teenager for not jumping to donate liver to his abusive father. She also judges Addison’s friend for getting a double mastectomy and hysterectomy in an attempt to prevent cancer. I long ago decided she was supposed to be representing the audience and it makes some of her stories more palatable but she’s still a nightmare. Just in a different way than Christina.

An interesting show would be one that centers on a hospital Human Resources Department having to deal with all of the insanity that occurred on various medical shows. 

[Writing Wrongs]

I've been binge-watching the older show, Cold Case and I have hated the character of Scotty since he first appeared. 

[kathyk24]

2 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I've been binge-watching the older show, Cold Case and I have hated the character of Scotty since he first appeared. 

Scotty was fine when he was first introduced then he became a hothead like Stabler.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I've been binge-watching the older show, Cold Case and I have hated the character of Scotty since he first appeared. 

One of the reasons I'm glad the show ended when it did is that it seems they intended to let him get away with murder.  Disgusting.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Scotty was fine when he was first introduced then he became a hothead like Stabler.

I loved Scotty until that happened. It came completely out of nowhere. I also hate Lily's sister Chris and they wasted the series finale on her.

[proserpina65]

On 1/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, scarynikki12 said:

I have a lot of affection for Christina but that is all due to Sandra Oh. On paper she’s a nightmare.

Yeah, in the hands of a lesser actress, Christina would've been so horrible I wouldn't have been able to watch her.

[Bastet]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:03 AM, andromeda331 said:

I also hate Lily's sister Chris and they wasted the series finale on her.

Another reason I'm glad the series was not renewed - I could not fucking stand Christina, and season eight would inevitably have to heavily involve Lilly taking care of her and that baby, with Scotty's savior complex in full bloom again.  No thank you.

When Nicki Aycox died last year, I felt bad that my primary association with her is how very much I hated her face whenever she did Christina's wide-eyed "Why are you always so mad at me?" look in response to Lilly's frustration at having to, once again, deal with one of her self-induced catastrophes, but that's all I can see when I read her name.

[Danny Franks]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:27 PM, proserpina65 said:

Yeah, in the hands of a lesser actress, Christina would've been so horrible I wouldn't have been able to watch her.

I can't watch her. Then again, I can't watch most of the rest of them either. An utterly loathsome, repellent bunch of characters.

Meredith is almost as self-centred as Sandra Oh, and is utterly boring on top of it. Same goes for Katherine Heigl, though at least she has some natural charisma.

Alex, the guy who seems to be dating a different woman in every episode, has no redeemable qualities whatsoever, and seems to be perpetually angry and contemptuous of anyone who isn't him. Especially women. Just watched him apparently try to coerce a rich, elderly patient into giving him money, which is something that any doctor would lose their job over.

The guy who has the misfortune of being Meredith's love interest is just a walking non-entity, whose only defining trait is a smug half-smirk that he wears all the time.

Then there's the middle aged lothario who is apparently irresistible to women but is almost as unpleasant and casually chauvinistic as Alex. He apparently has a true love romance with a woman who looks a good twenty years younger than him.

This show is the absolute opposite of good television, and I'm getting seriously annoyed that it's on my TV all the time.

[Avabelle]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:33 PM, Danny Franks said:

I can't watch her. Then again, I can't watch most of the rest of them either. An utterly loathsome, repellent bunch of characters.

Meredith is almost as self-centred as Sandra Oh, and is utterly boring on top of it. Same goes for Katherine Heigl, though at least she has some natural charisma.

Alex, the guy who seems to be dating a different woman in every episode, has no redeemable qualities whatsoever, and seems to be perpetually angry and contemptuous of anyone who isn't him. Especially women. Just watched him apparently try to coerce a rich, elderly patient into giving him money, which is something that any doctor would lose their job over.

The guy who has the misfortune of being Meredith's love interest is just a walking non-entity, whose only defining trait is a smug half-smirk that he wears all the time.

Then there's the middle aged lothario who is apparently irresistible to women but is almost as unpleasant and casually chauvinistic as Alex. He apparently has a true love romance with a woman who looks a good twenty years younger than him.

This show is the absolute opposite of good television, and I'm getting seriously annoyed that it's on my TV all the time.

This is just such a fantastic breakdown. Greys in its day was brilliant but when you take away all the hype etc above Is  very accurate.

[jennifer6973]

On NCIS I truly disliked SECNAV Jarvis and was happy he died.

[bluegirl147]

I've been rewatching Dawson's Creek and I just finished season three and Jesus do I hate Dawson Leery.  I remember not being a fan of his when I originally watched the show but now I just despise him.  The games he played with Joey and then gets pissy when she moves on with Pacey.  I understand he felt betrayed by them both but I just can't with him.  Makes me wonder if the audience was supposed to be on his side or were we supposed to think what an asshole.

[Ambrosefolly]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:21 AM, bluegirl147 said:

I've been rewatching Dawson's Creek and I just finished season three and Jesus do I hate Dawson Leery.  I remember not being a fan of his when I originally watched the show but now I just despise him.  The games he played with Joey and then gets pissy when she moves on with Pacey.  I understand he felt betrayed by them both but I just can't with him.  Makes me wonder if the audience was supposed to be on his side or were we supposed to think what an asshole.

Once Kevin Williamson left, I really think Dawson became an afterthought to the largely female writing staff and they were focused on telling Joey's story. It is a shame that they couldn't have Dawson come out as gay in later seasons and had to use Jack as the avatar for KW's sexuality. It was good that Don Mancini waited so long to have an openly gay lead in his show "Chucky", even though Don broke out in Hollywood before KW, to show the world his own experience. 

[Shannon L.]

I didn't watch Veronica Mars when it first came out, but I've been making my way through it over the last few weeks. I'm most of the way through Season 3 and my God, is there any character more useless, ridiculous, and annoying as Dick? He kills my enjoyment of the show it every time he's in a scene. Sheriff Lamb wasn't much better, but he had a good moment every so often.  Dick is just.....yuck.

[RunningMarket]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:10 PM, Shannon L. said:

I didn't watch Veronica Mars when it first came out, but I've been making my way through it over the last few weeks. I'm most of the way through Season 3 and my God, is there any character more useless, ridiculous, and annoying as Dick? He kills my enjoyment of the show it every time he's in a scene. Sheriff Lamb wasn't much better, but he had a good moment every so often.  Dick is just.....yuck.

Dick is very much used (IMO) as comic relief. If you watch the movie, he's got a couple of good lines.

[Spartan Girl]

Wow. I’ve never watched Grey’s Anatomy, but this guy was douche with a capital bag. At least the show had the decency to kill him off.

Now come on, The Take, do Xander Harris, I am BEGGING YOU!

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Wow. I’ve never watched Grey’s Anatomy, but this guy was douche with a capital bag. At least the show had the decency to kill him off.

 

Oh I loved George!  I knew when I started watching that he was going to die but his death still devastated me and felt completely unnecessary.   And from what I’ve read George’s horrible stories and lack of airtime were payback for Shondra being forced by the network to fire Isaiah Washington for his homophobia.  

[Sweet Tee]

I loathed George for how he treated Callie. 

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Sweet Tee said:

I loathed George for how he treated Callie. 

He was a whiny little boy in his interactions with Meredith and then a total asshole with Callie.  And the less said about Gizzie, the better. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Has anyone ever disliked a character because they remind you of a specific person you can’t stand (like an annoying family member or a toxic ex-friend or whoever) or general type of person you don’t like in real life? That’s exactly what bothered me so much about Abby on ER and I just realized it. She reminds me of the type of person who, despite treating others like dog shit and having a history of poor and destructive decision-making, still comes out on top even though she doesn’t deserve it. She still ends up with a husband willing to whisk her away to a new city and keep her around like she’s Cinderella at the ball after she drove drunk with their son and put him in danger. She gets to have a baby even though she shows no desire to have kids and doesn’t seem to even love her son. She gets tons of job offers at top hospitals and an interview for an attending job at County even after a relapse in which she was drunk at work. And when she does relapse, it’s blamed on everyone and everything else but her because she couldn’t handle the stress of working and having a kid, clearly something no one else in the world was doing in 2007. /s 

If I knew someone like this in real life who was continuously coddled and handed a dream life on a silver platter despite not deserving any of it, I feel like I would just distance myself from them and get resentful to see them doing so well when I was down on my luck while not doing any of those things. And the other thing is, aside from Luka falling at her feet and taking her back even though she could have seriously harmed their kid, she seems to have tons of friends and she has an adoring fanbase in the fandom. Abby doesn’t deserve a marriage and a kid or a good job at a prestigious hospital. If anything she should have ended up alone with her life and career trashed so she could think about what she did and how she hurt others, and it kind of makes me mad that she didn’t. 

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Has anyone ever disliked a character because they remind you of a specific person you can’t stand (like an annoying family member or a toxic ex-friend or whoever) or general type of person you don’t like in real life? That’s exactly what bothered me so much about Abby on ER and I just realized it. She reminds me of the type of person who, despite treating others like dog shit and having a history of poor and destructive decision-making, still comes out on top even though she doesn’t deserve it. She still ends up with a husband willing to whisk her away to a new city and keep her around like she’s Cinderella at the ball after she drove drunk with their son and put him in danger. She gets to have a baby even though she shows no desire to have kids and doesn’t seem to even love her son. She gets tons of job offers at top hospitals and an interview for an attending job at County even after a relapse in which she was drunk at work. And when she does relapse, it’s blamed on everyone and everything else but her because she couldn’t handle the stress of working and having a kid, clearly something no one else in the world was doing in 2007. /s 

If I knew someone like this in real life who was continuously coddled and handed a dream life on a silver platter despite not deserving any of it, I feel like I would just distance myself from them and get resentful to see them doing so well when I was down on my luck while not doing any of those things. And the other thing is, aside from Luka falling at her feet and taking her back even though she could have seriously harmed their kid, she seems to have tons of friends and she has an adoring fanbase in the fandom. Abby doesn’t deserve a marriage and a kid or a good job at a prestigious hospital. If anything she should have ended up alone with her life and career trashed so she could think about what she did and how she hurt others, and it kind of makes me mad that she didn’t. 

Oh yeah, I totally get that.  I'd stopped watching ER by that season so I don't really have much of an opinion about Abby, but there have been characters I've disliked because they reminded me of my oh-so pious, completely hypocritical uber-conservative aunt.

[Spartan Girl]

Of all the potential mothers of How I Met Your Mother, I hated Zoey the most. When Barney called her a self-righteous bitch with a pointless cause and a megaphone, he was being far too kind. I still can’t get over how after worming her way into the group, she didn’t hesitate to stab all of them in the back—not just Ted—when she didn’t get her way about that stupid hotel. And the fact that when she reappeared after the breakup episode she didn’t even apologize to Ted for everything she did is beyond contempt.

It’s just mind-blowing that he’d even consider getting back together with her. I know it’s Ted, but come on, the guy had some pride.

[AgathaC]

Hubby and I started watching Scandal recently. He saw the first few seasons the first time around and he wanted to give it another go.

We just started S3 and I can no longer contain myself. I HATE these people!!!

Fitz: Overgrown baby man with a personality disorder. I feel like I’m supposed to find him admirable and romantic. But all I see is a toddler, lying on the floor, kicking his feet and waving his arms and yelling “I want to be president and I want my mistress and I want the world to see and accept our twu wuuuuuuv!” He’s cold. And, the kicker for me, when he found out about the cabal that basically stole the election for him, was he angry that they had defrauded the American people and cheated citizens out of their rights? Did he get pissed that they had committed a felony and risked serious time in federal prison? No. He had his fee-fees hurt that the people closest to him didn’t believe in him. Whatever, dude.

Olivia Pope: I think I could like her. There are aspects that are interesting. But to me she’s a shell. Other characters talk about how awesome she is, but I’ve yet to really see it. I see her as a passive character, despite what others say. And her big romance with Fitz? Unhealthy and annoying. Honestly, part of my issue is the actress. Kerry Washington is beautiful and may be a fine actress in other roles. But I feel like she’s missing key elements to making her character really zing. It’s a tricky role. I think someone like Taraji P Henson would have been better.

The “gladiators”: Gag. Most of the time, they come off like cultists. I realize Olivia rescued them from bad situations, but they completely dropped any beliefs they might have had, in favor of hers. Again — unhealthy.

Cyrus: I enjoyed him for being amusing — until he verbally abused and belittled his husband and reduced the man to tears. No.

Can’t decide how I feel about David. He seemed ok, but now seems to be drifting to the dark side.

No, the only character I actually like (not in an “I want to know this person” way but more an “ah, I find this person entertaining and I want her to succeed” way) is Mellie. Yes, she’s a scheming, manipulative bitch. But I think I’m supposed to see her that way, so — success. Also, Fitz and Olivia are so nauseating that I’m going to automatically be on her team.

Glancing ahead, I hear things only get worse and more ridiculous, so I doubt we’ll make it all the way. As it stands now, at least I’m still curious about stories.

Whew! That feels better.

[proserpina65]

I'm currently in the middle of a rewatch of Game of Thrones in order to fill the time until season 2 of House of the Dragon, and I'm rediscovering how much I absolutely loathe Ramsay Snow/Bolton.  There's nothing interesting or compelling about him (unlike Roose Bolton, who has that voice, at least).  He's just vile and, quite frankly, a total Gary Stu.  Like there's nothing he can't do better than everyone else around him even though there's no reason why.  If the fast-forward button on the dvd remote worked, I'd zoom right past his scenes, but it doesn't so I just try not to look at the screen when he's on it.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

I'm currently in the middle of a rewatch of Game of Thrones in order to fill the time until season 2 of House of the Dragon, and I'm rediscovering how much I absolutely loathe Ramsay Snow/Bolton.  There's nothing interesting or compelling about him (unlike Roose Bolton, who has that voice, at least).  He's just vile and, quite frankly, a total Gary Stu.  Like there's nothing he can't do better than everyone else around him even though there's no reason why.  If the fast-forward button on the dvd remote worked, I'd zoom right past his scenes, but it doesn't so I just try not to look at the screen when he's on it.

Ramsay's introduction in the books seemed like GRRM was just trying to be as gross as possible - 'how bad can I make this character? And will it impress the worst elements of my readership?'

There's no depth whatsoever to him, he's an evil cartoon. Hell, in the books he even has his dogs repeatedly rape Jeyne Poole, the poor girl that Littlefinger sells to the Boltons, claiming she's Sansa.

He was one of the biggest signs for me that GRRM had no clue what he was doing with the series once he was past the initial, War of the Roses, Sunne in Splendour inspired storylines.

In the show, he's just as bad. Perhaps worse, because the writers were even less capable of giving him depth or complexity.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Danny Franks

[Zella]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

(unlike Roose Bolton, who has that voice, at least). 

I rewatched GOT earlier this year, and it already confirmed my complete disinterest in Ramsay I had when I last watched. I do agree on Roose, though. I became a pretty big Michael McElhatton fan due to Game of Thrones and have made a point of following his career. He plays a lot of villains, but each one seems like a unique character, and he does have a fantastic voice. It's also nice to see him pop up in comedies and in less villainous roles.