S09.E07: Choke-Lahoma

[motorcitymom65]

Vicki went to OK because she really has no other storyline right now, unless we see her with Brooks again talking about her love tank.  Blech. She's already been at the office, redecorating and that was zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.   Vicki also probably wanted to go house hunting with them in OK because she likes to control things.

 

If Vicki senses something is wrong with Brianna and Ryan's marriage (as in he has anger issues), then why ask or provoke him with her stupid statements or questions?  What are you planning to do as a real job?  You're taking my family away from me.  Why can't you (Brianna) and the baby stay in CA and Ryan just commute?  She's like a match nearby a smoldering pile of coals.

 

 

Co-sign most everything in your post, Hoosier. What else would Vicki have to film, if not the deal with Brianna? This is her story, so of course she is going to go to Ok City. 

 

I also agree that if she is so concerned with things in their marriage, or concerned about Ryan's anger issues, why in the world would she be so annoying and bitchy about everything? Her suggestions that Brianna live in OC and just go visit her husband monthly were beyond strange.

 

I don't think Heather is jealous of Shannon. Heather has just as much money, a lovely family, will have a house that is just as grand, and as a bonus does not seem to detest her husband. I think she is jealous of the friendship that has blossomed between Vicks/Tamra/Shannon, which Heather was pretty much big enough to admit. 

[lunastartron]

I see no magnanimity on Heather's part. If she's self-aware enough to identify that her problems with Shannon stem from her own feelings of exclusion from the group (which is, in and of itself, a variety of jealousy), then she has the tools necessary to assume responsibility for the impropriety of her own actions and to realize that Shannon actually hasn't behaved particularly offensively. Instead, she persists in trying to peddle the narrative that Shannon "yelled at her the entire way from the bathroom to the table" and was "crazy scary." When Heather makes criticisms about others, those judgments are gospel ("if everyone says you're dead, it's time to lie down"), but whenever others have negative feedback about Heather, those critiques are either "rude" (as Heather cried when Lydia explained why she didn't give Heather a magazine cover) or merely "perceptions," as she explained in her very slow diction to Shannon this episode. I also don't see any analogousness between Heather's reaction to the budding camaraderie between the current blondes and Vicki and Alexis's respective bewilderment about the Gretchen/Heather détente. Shannon has no history with the cast, and Tamra and Vicki are reacting to her in a (for once) appropriately welcoming manner. Alexis was disquieted and puzzled that Gretchen was suddenly besties with a woman who had urged her son to sexually assault an intoxicated Gretchen; Vicki was correlatively weirded out that Tamra dropped a years-long campaign to paint Gretchen as evil incarnate. Ample daylight between the two situations, in my opinion.

[tulip555]

I still can't believe Vicki suggested that Brianna should live in LA and fly to Oklahoma to see Ryan once a month.

I  can, the woman is absolutely unbelievable

Edited June 5, 2014 by tulip555

[ghoulina]

I think Shannon is a little scary angry. It's not like Ragey Ryan, but she always seems ready to snap. Part of it could have to do with the way she plucks hr eyebrows, but she does kind of freak me out. Anyway, I dislike her and Heather in pretty much equal amounts.

 

If they're going off of eyebrows, Heather's look way scarier to me. I find Shannon to be very calm, unless she is dealing with David. Even when she is passionate about something, it comes off very monotone. I really would love to see some footage of Shannon yelling at Heather all the way from the bathroom to the table, because I just don't believe it happened. 

[tulip555]

I don't either.....so far we have not seen Shannon behave in such a manner in any scene.  IMO, Heather perhaps was "projecting" her own "scary" reaction on to Shannon.  Heather just doesn't strike me as a very psychologically healthy woman.

[OhGromit]

Shannon's eyes get wide when she's scared or upset and trying to contain herself.  And to me... Heather is scary!  In fact, Heather is a downright Heather (for the kids out there, that's a 1988 movie reference).  NO WAY was she scary angry.  Heather was projecting.  BTW, did I mention I don't like Heather?   Cause I really, really don't like Heather.  She takes the cake when it comes to pretentiousness... bow and all.  

[Everandever]

Heather suffers from big fish in little pond syndrome. I would love to see her on RHONY or BH. I don't think she likes Shannon because she's the first person in three seasons of OC that comes close in terms of wealth or sophistication.

[LilaFowler]

Heather is pissed that she doesn't have the biggest house of all the women this season.  You know she likes to show off.

[lunastartron]

I can't imagine Heather successfully going head to head in an argument against, say, Lisa Vanderpump or Heather Thomson . . . or even Kyle Richards for that matter. While she's better educated than the likes of Tamra (and Kyle), I honestly don't see her outpacing Tams in terms of raw intelligence quotient. Her facility with "big" words indicates she's more inclined to value knowledge, but I think that's a nature vs. nurture difference. Heather relies too heavily on double standards and transparent fabrications for me to extend her much credit in the sphere of intellect; she couldn't even take down the comparably "uncerebral" Alexis without having to resort to some fantasia involving scores of Nordstrom employees accosting her to air their grievances against the Bellinos. Similarly, she can't articulate why she doesn't care for Shannon without deploying some tall tale that's expressly contradicted by the footage shown to viewers. Stephen Hawking she's not.

[Everandever]

Agreed, lunastartron. I by no means think Heather is brilliant, just that she was raised with a different set of values than Vicki or Tams (or obviously Alexis, Gretchen, ha!) And, I was actually mistaken about Shannon being the first to challenge Heather's hegemony. Lydia was wealthier than anyone else (I think) and voila, Heather picked a fight over magazine-gate and tried to make Lydia out to be rude.

[OhGromit]

There's something about Heather that makes me want to go to her house and break rules.  I want to be invited to one of her parties, show up, sneeze on the buffet table, fart at the dinner table, pick my nose and call it a night.  

[tulip555]

LOL that's a great idea

Heather suffers from big fish in little pond syndrome. I would love to see her on RHONY or BH. I don't think she likes Shannon because she's the first person in three seasons of OC that comes close in terms of wealth or sophistication.

I would too.....would love to see her go up against Lisa

[Lola16]

i'd like to bring in Karent from MIA.  Her rapid fire talking and smiling would make Heather's head explode.

[SuzWhat]

I feel Heather's concerns about being excluded relate to filming, in the end. She is protecting her screen time.

Edited June 6, 2014 by SuzWhat

[Giselle]

There's something about Heather that makes me want to go to her house and break rules.  I want to be invited to one of her parties, show up, sneeze on the buffet table, fart at the dinner table, pick my nose and call it a night.  

What I'd like to do is watch her and Terry like a hawk and then in front of everyone point out to her and/or her husband what they did wrong and what they should have done and do it all night long.  Of course the earth would tremble and thunder would crash as  my grandmothers and aunts rose from their graves to smite me. You just don't do that.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Giselle

[TheFinalRose]

 

There's something about Heather that makes me want to go to her house and break rules.  I want to be invited to one of her parties, show up, sneeze on the buffet table, fart at the dinner table, pick my nose and call it a night.

 

 

 

Don't forget to break a tiny bit off the fondant bow on her cake on the way out ... she hates that!

[KicksandGiggles]

My MIL is a crazy Christmas nut job similar to Shannon.   Her stress over the decorations, food, etc sucks all the fun and life right out of it.

 

Ah yes, those photos of the decorations and how they were placed years past...  I found that so funny. What difference does it make if a nutcracker is on the other side of the mantle from the preceding year? In the words of Joe Guidice, Who Cares?

[JAYJAY1979]

I still laugh at how Lydia got into Heather's skin in at last season's reunion.. and I remember both Alexis and Gretchen sitting there smirking because you know both of them felt the same way as Lydia did, but were unable to properly verbalize it to Heather.

 

I bet Heather was happy Lydia opted to not be a cast member, but didn't realize that both VIcki and Tamra would have issues with her while new girl Shannon would take to them thus freezing Heather out.  Sometimes when an enemy vanishes, so do the bonds that tie people together.  I saw a brief preview for next week with Lizzie basically letting Heather know in front of everyone that Tamra was talking smack about her while in the TH, Tamra basically is telling Lizzie to shut the ++++ up.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

I bet Heather was happy Lydia opted to not be a cast member, but didn't realize that both VIcki and Tamra would have issues with her while new girl Shannon would take to them thus freezing Heather out.  Sometimes when an enemy vanishes, so do the bonds that tie people together.  

But was Lydia the enemy to Vicks/Tamra/Heather? I don't remember her really having any issues with Tamra and Vicks, and the one with Heather was kind of fleeting. They disagreed about the magazine, but it was settled within the first couple of episodes, and Heather went on to have her house in the magazine (not on the cover) anyway. It seemed like they pretty much got along for the remainder of the season. Yea, Lydia threw a zinger at her at the reunion, but I don't remember it being any worse than the typical shit that happens at these things. It seemed to occur, than was over. 

[SFoster21]

Ah yes, those photos of the decorations and how they were placed years past... I found that so funny. What difference does it make if a nutcracker is on the other side of the mantle from the preceding year? In the words of Joe Guidice, Who Cares?

Ah yes, those photos of the decorations and how they were placed years past... I found that so funny. What difference does it make if a nutcracker is on the other side of the mantle from the preceding year? In the words of Joe Guidice, Who Cares?

While I agree that you can suck the fun out of a holiday by micro-managing, the point of this scheme seems clear to me.  You have several boxes of decorations, in the boxes they're organized by size.  If you had an arrangement that worked in years past, you save time by having a photo recollection so that the pieces can be placed quickly.  If you have only one or two nutcrackers, maybe you like to vary.  But if you have piles of stuff, you would be hours working it out without a plan.  So it makes sense to me.  

 

On the other hand, the Christmas card photo craziiness is just crazy.

Edited June 6, 2014 by SFoster21

[qtpye]

I think what also gets Heather is that Shannon grew up legitimately wealthy. Heather, I am guessing, grew up upper middle class at best (not that there is anything wrong with that). She is always trying to ape the ways of what she thinks the old monied families of America act like (clam bakes and saying champs). Terry and her are very status conscious.

I do not think Shannon is from old money, but I think she was pretty wealthy by regular people standards. So far, I like Shannon and how she owns her faults. I think growing up in privileged might have left her a tad bit over sheltered an not ready for the roughness of the real world.

Edited June 6, 2014 by qtpye

[tulip555]

I can't really imagine anybody with "old money" even having a desire to be on one of these Housewives shows....just doesn't compute to me

[Ubiquitous]

Heather is pissed that she doesn't have the biggest house of all the women this season. 

Yet.

 

There's something about Heather that makes me want to go to her house and break rules.  I want to be invited to one of her parties, show up, sneeze on the buffet table, fart at the dinner table, pick my nose and call it a night.  

Heh. Or rearrange the silverwear when no one is looking.

[ghoulina]

Oh my gosh, I would have a field day with her medicine cabinet!

[lunastartron]

Plenty of old money on Southern Charm, basically a male iteration of the catch-all Bravo format. As far as the Housewives franchise, Shannon's affluence is about as old as it gets, being at least two generations removed in origin. Lydia's grandfather likewise was the source of her (considerably more moneyed) provenance. Shannon reminds me of the children I went to prep school with: not necessarily a one-percenter by birth (though she is now), but hailing from enough financial security that her comfort is just a given. No need to underline the luxury in her life, but taking as an assurance that it will be there. Heather's a documented liar, so who knows if Shannon really had her own groundbreaking party, but I hope it was more on the order of a couple of friends breaking open a bottle of champagne if it did take place.

I think production details actually suggest the main narrative the network had in mind for the season was Lydia (with backup from Tams and Vicki) vs. Heather, with Shannon being cast as a potential Heather ally. Too bad Lydia's departure prevented an all-out pile-on, but I think it generated some interesting fallout.

Filming usually lasts October-November. With Lydia quitting right before that timeline, it looks like a whole month was lost fishing for Danielle and Lizzie. Production went all the way into February. Someone's going to have to eat the increased expense, and Alex McCord actually made a reasonable point that it could be one of the vets with their bigger salaries.

I think a case could be made that any of the three are in peril of the chopping block; hence the showdown-heavy vacations. I'd also predict Tamra is going to assault someone (Danielle or Heather?) at the reunion if she feels desperate enough to secure her golden ticket to season 10.

[SFoster21]

First Look today at 5:49.

[LotusFlower]

One of the most ridiculous scenes in HW history on the First look - Tamra has married a younger guy, owns a gym, always works out, talks openly about Botox, and this season in particular she's constantly lamenting getting older and even talks to a doctor about treatments to slow the aging process. With her son, Ryan, in tow. Who takes illegal HGH. And when the doctor tells Ryan that his tests reveal that he's at risk for a heart attack, Tamra, in a TH, sobs, and asks why Ryan can't learn to love himself and accept the way he looks without the drugs. Hmmm.....gee, I wonder, Tamra. Where on earth did Ryan develop this way of thinking?

Does Tamra ever look in the mirror? And I mean metaphorically, not really sitting in front of a mirror applying that hideous white eyeliner.

[FozzyBear]

One of the most ridiculous scenes in HW history on the First look - Tamra has married a younger guy, owns a gym, always works out, talks openly about Botox, and this season in particular she's constantly lamenting getting older and even talks to a doctor about treatments to slow the aging process. With her son, Ryan, in tow. Who takes illegal HGH. And when the doctor tells Ryan that his tests reveal that he's at risk for a heart attack, Tamra, in a TH, sobs, and asks why Ryan can't learn to love himself and accept the way he looks without the drugs. Hmmm.....gee, I wonder, Tamra. Where on earth did Ryan develop this way of thinking?

Does Tamra ever look in the mirror? And I mean metaphorically, not really sitting in front of a mirror applying that hideous white eyeliner.

Tamara is ridiculous. She's a study in being shallow. Every time she talks about her anti-aging doctor I want to scream "you're still aging dumbass! You 're just doing it with Botox!" Nobody can stop you from aging. You will turn 50. And 60, and 70, and if you're lucky 80 and 90. Get over it. Learn to enjoy telling kids to get off your lawn.

[Satchels of gold]

Let me preface by saying I feel for Brianna because having Vickie for a mom would be a living hell , however, her speech about how her life didn't turn out how she wanted it to didn't sit right with me. She didn't get to go to an out of state school, she didn't get to do doctors without borders etc. She is just so entitled.!! I would be thanking my lucky stars I got a college education. Maybe this is my own issue because I grew up poor and had to struggle financially to go to college and grad school . I would have been delighted and very grateful to have any assistance . God with so many complaints to chose from about growing up with Vickie this is what she picked? I have always liked Brianna and she always seemed like such a great kid but I don't like the woman she has become. Instead of bitching about what you didn't get to do why don't you try looking across the bed and figure out how you managed to be married to a raving maniac.

[lezlers]

Briana strikes me as depressed.  I really wish people would stop insulting her weight because it's not like she's sitting around eating bonbons all day.  She had/has a thyroid condition which necessitated surgery, I'm not so sure her weight is something she can help right now.  I think her desire to get away from Vics together with her plummeting self esteem due to the weight gain and her medical scares resulted in her latching on to the first man that would take her.  She's also so stubborn and determined to prove everyone wrong, she'll never leave him.  I agree she's been acting like a spoiled brat, but I can't hate on her too much because I think she's created a really sad and scary life for herself that she's stuck in (psychologically, I realize she's perfectly capable of physically leaving.)

[FozzyBear]

Every time Brianna says she didn't GET to do something I want to pull a Princess Bride and say "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" I think that's typical of kids who grow up with needy, manipulative parents like Vicki. I think some have trouble distinguishing between people disapproving of something and people actually stopping them from doing things. I don't think Brianna is really comfortable making a decision unless she thinks she'll get 100% approval from everyone in her life. I think that's one of the things that she likes about the military life. So many choices are taken away from you and I think Brianna actually likes that. It's not that she WANTS to move to OK, she HAS to move to OK. She talks that way about a lot of things. I've always noticed it. She has this tendency to speak about even minor decisions in these absolute terms of "having to" or "not being able to" instead of "wanting" or "not wanting". The former is out of her hands and not her fault, the latter is something she might have to take personal responsibility for. It's actually really sad, especially since I don't think she has any idea she does this or that she doesn't have to do this.

[Beden]

 

Tamara is ridiculous. She's a study in being shallow. Every time she talks about her anti-aging doctor I want to scream "you're still aging dumbass! You 're just doing it with Botox!" Nobody can stop you from aging. You will turn 50. And 60, and 70, and if you're lucky 80 and 90. Get over it. Learn to enjoy telling kids to get off your lawn.

And am I the only one who doesn't accept that the botoxed within an inch of your life, can't move most of your plasticized face topped by obviously dyed/friend hair coupled with way the hell too much makeup and too tight tacky ass ho clothes isn't an anti-aging look? Or is it just me?

[FozzyBear]

And am I the only one who doesn't accept that the botoxed within an inch of your life, can't move most of your plasticized face topped by obviously dyed/friend hair coupled with way the hell too much makeup and too tight tacky ass ho clothes isn't an anti-aging look? Or is it just me?

Oh god no! That CA blond beach bunny look the OC girls favor can actually be very aging. It can scream I'm trying to look younger than I am even on young women.

[Snarky McSnarky]

If Tammy is concerned about the negative effects of steroids on her son, she should haul Eddie into the doctor's office for a blood test some time.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

Let me preface by saying I feel for Brianna because having Vickie for a mom would be a living hell , however, her speech about how her life didn't turn out how she wanted it to didn't sit right with me. She didn't get to go to an out of state school, she didn't get to do doctors without borders etc.

 

I had agreed with all of you … until I saw one of the earlier RHoOC episodes on a Marathon Thursday.  Just two seasons ago (before Ryan came into the picture) she was saying to Vicki that she didn't want to be 25 chasing after two kids.  "I want to see the world!  There's so much I want to do! There's so much more to life than changing diapers!"  Well, here she is:  fat, 26, chasing after two kids and married to a jerk.  I think THAT is her regret, not Vicki's parenting.  She was stressed by her surgery and Vicki's divorce and made an impetuous decision.

[PhilMarlowe2]

I actually felt for Briana during the speech about doctors without borders. Not because that is the biggest sob story in the world. But because I do feel like she had this adventuresome spirit and that Vicki really stomped a lot of it out of her. And now, here she is, making these decisions almost out of spite against her mother - "I'm going to elope with Ryan! I'm going to move to Oklahoma with my kids!" I think Brianna is stifling so much rage and passive-aggressively acting out and making choices that she is going to regret so deeply 18 years down the line. I know technically Vicki didn't stop Briana from doing anything she wanted to do, but as someone who grew up with a hysterical narcissist like Vicki, I can say from experience that it can take a lot of deep, deep personal work to come to understand that you have a right to your own life. I don't think Briana even understands how angry she is at Vicki. It's really painful to watch her throw her life into this horrible marriage. Vicki herself is the one to say, "If you act this way in front of the cameras, what are you doing behind closed doors?" And we have seen Vicki MELT DOWN on camera, so I can only imagine how she has behaved towards her kids behind closed doors. That kind of rage leaves a mark. If she ever screamed at Briana and Ryan the way she screamed at Tamra or Gretchen, that is flat-out abusive.

Edited June 9, 2014 by PhilMarlowe2

[FozzyBear]

I actually felt for Briana during the speech about doctors without borders. Not because that is the biggest sob story in the world. But because I do feel like she had this adventuresome spirit and that Vicki really stomped a lot of it out of her. And now, here she is, making these decisions almost out of spite against her mother - "I'm going to elope with Ryan! I'm going to move to Oklahoma with my kids!" I think Brianna is stifling so much rage and passive-aggressively acting out and making choices that she is going to regret so deeply 18 years down the line. I know technically Vicki didn't stop Briana from doing anything she wanted to do, but as someone who grew up with a hysterical narcissist like Vicki, I can say from experience that it can take a lot of deep, deep personal work to come to understand that you have a right to your own life. I don't think Briana even understands how angry she is at Vicki. It's really painful to watch her throw her life into this horrible marriage. Vicki herself is the one to say, "If you act this way in front of the cameras, what are you doing behind closed doors?" And we have seen Vicki MELT DOWN on camera, so I can only imagine how she has behaved towards her kids behind closed doors. That kind of rage leaves a mark. If she ever screamed at Briana and Ryan the way she screamed at Tamra or Gretchen, that is flat-out abusive.

I try to keep this in mind. I really do because I think Vicki did create a really unhealthy co-dependent bond with Brianna. I think in many ways Michael was lucky that he obviously wasn't the favorite. I try, but damn it! Brianna has always had such a sour, judgmental, joyless personality and it's getting worse. It's like she was born a 45 year old unhappy housewife and now she's a cranky 70 year old lady. She's always been a little rigid and uptight IMHO and now she just comes across as hateful. To everyone. My guess is she's going to lose almost all of her friends because they 're all going to get sick of having to kiss Ryan's ass and listening to Brianna bitch about everything. Sometimes even if you understand why a person is the way they are it can still be exhausting to put up with.

[SFoster21]

PhilMarlowe2, thank you for your incredibly insightful and thoughtful post.  I had the same thoughts about Brianna, but I could not express them that well.

 

She is still very young, if you ask me, and emotionally separating from her mother has to be very difficult.  You only have one mother and you have gratitude and love towards her.  While my mother was not as vile as Vicki, she had many of the same traits and trying to please her was part of my life until I was much, much older.

 

I've never understood the attitude that she is lucky because Vicki's home had a pool, etc.  A gilded cage is still a cage and just because your circumstances growing up were affluent, you may still have lacked the nurture necessary to making you feel safe and loved unconditionally.  

 

My heart goes out to Brianna.

Edited June 9, 2014 by SFoster21

[tulip555]

I actually felt for Briana during the speech about doctors without borders. Not because that is the biggest sob story in the world. But because I do feel like she had this adventuresome spirit and that Vicki really stomped a lot of it out of her. And now, here she is, making these decisions almost out of spite against her mother - "I'm going to elope with Ryan! I'm going to move to Oklahoma with my kids!" I think Brianna is stifling so much rage and passive-aggressively acting out and making choices that she is going to regret so deeply 18 years down the line. I know technically Vicki didn't stop Briana from doing anything she wanted to do, but as someone who grew up with a hysterical narcissist like Vicki, I can say from experience that it can take a lot of deep, deep personal work to come to understand that you have a right to your own life. I don't think Briana even understands how angry she is at Vicki. It's really painful to watch her throw her life into this horrible marriage. Vicki herself is the one to say, "If you act this way in front of the cameras, what are you doing behind closed doors?" And we have seen Vicki MELT DOWN on camera, so I can only imagine how she has behaved towards her kids behind closed doors. That kind of rage leaves a mark. If she ever screamed at Briana and Ryan the way she screamed at Tamra or Gretchen, that is flat-out abusive.

OH....I so agree

[ghoulina]

I've never understood the attitude that she is lucky because Vicki's home had a pool, etc.  A gilded cage is still a cage and just because your circumstances growing up were affluent, you may still have lacked the nurture necessary to making you feel safe and loved unconditionally.

 

I agree. I grew up fairly poor. We didn't have a lot, and sometimes I was teased at school. I didn't have the option to go to ANY college, unless I got loans or scholarships. I had to save my ass off for my first car, and even then it was old and of questionable quality. But I would much prefer my life to Brianna's. Money isn't everything. I feel I had a lot more freedom than she did. I vacillate a lot on Brianna. I often feel sorry for her. But other times I feel like she could have turned things around as an adult. But bad cycles can be hard to break. 

[FozzyBear]

I agree. I grew up fairly poor. We didn't have a lot, and sometimes I was teased at school. I didn't have the option to go to ANY college, unless I got loans or scholarships. I had to save my ass off for my first car, and even then it was old and of questionable quality. But I would much prefer my life to Brianna's. Money isn't everything. I feel I had a lot more freedom than she did. I vacillate a lot on Brianna. I often feel sorry for her. But other times I feel like she could have turned things around as an adult. But bad cycles can be hard to break.

I think were some people are coming from (or at least I am) is less about thinking money makes up for having Vicki as a mom and more that Brianna can come across as very entitled and judgmental. It's like how she talked about how her mom never helps her when Vicki had Troy for all of Thanksgiving weekend. Or they way she was so nasty about Brooks ( who may well have deserved it) and then moved her family into her moms house and then told her mom to break up with Brooks because she doesn't want him at the house. Or going to OK and complaining about how she doesn't want a fancy Coto-like home for her family while looking at $400,000 houses. She's one of those frustrating people who has no self-awareness while being very harsh about other people. I feel for her because I really do think Vicki emotionally stunted her, but she is still a very frustrating person.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

Or they way she was so nasty about Brooks ( who may well have deserved it) and then moved her family into her moms house and then told her mom to break up with Brooks because she doesn't want him at the house.

 

I think Vicki WANTED them to move in … we know that she HATES to be alone in that big house.  Their deal was that they would move in but Brooks couldn't be at the house. When Briana said that Brooks told Ryan he should hit her … well, I can't blame Briana for that. And at the reunion, Brooks never denied he said that. 

[ghoulina]

She's one of those frustrating people who has no self-awareness while being very harsh about other people.

 

Oh, I absolutely agree with you about that. I just think Brianna is a monster Vicki created, but I'd hoped at some point she would realize that and try to change. Alas....

[FozzyBear]

I think Vicki WANTED them to move in … we know that she HATES to be alone in that big house. Their deal was that they would move in but Brooks couldn't be at the house. When Briana said that Brooks told Ryan he should hit her … well, I can't blame Briana for that. And at the reunion, Brooks never denied he said that.

.

Oh I agree (and I think Brianna was right not to trust Brooks. The tape...I'm not so sure about). My point was Brianna didn't have to do it. If she didn't like the way her mom was conducting her life she could have just said no. Or moved out when it was obvious Vicki was still seeing Brooks. She didn't do that. She stayed and instead became increasingly nasty to her mom and watched her husband become increasingly nasty to her mom. They didn't have to be there and they didn't have to stay . Brianna seems to be very into everyone being held accountable for their decisions and behavior except for herself.

[FlyingEgret]

Did anyone else catch Ryan saying that he bought the HGH at "his gym"?  That either means that he has to go somewhere besides CUT to workout or that Eddie is his dealer.  I'm not sure which is a worse reflection on Tamra's fitness establishment.

[bosawks]

Did anyone else catch Ryan saying that he bought the HGH at "his gym"?  That either means that he has to go somewhere besides CUT to workout or that Eddie is his dealer.  I'm not sure which is a worse reflection on Tamra's fitness establishment.

 

Regarding Tams I always default to the worst possible scenario.  I envision some sort of illegal supplement scheme going on with Ryan, Eddie and a lovely assortment of equaling trustworthy cohorts, errr, codefendants, errrr, "professionals".

[ghoulina]

I think Vicki WANTED them to move in … we know that she HATES to be alone in that big house.  Their deal was that they would move in but Brooks couldn't be at the house.

 

Yup. I absolutely believe Brianna and Ryan moving in was initiated more on Vicki's side than theirs. She really does not like being alone. We have seen so far this season one of her employees staying there and also Michael. 

[motorcitymom65]

Yup. I absolutely believe Brianna and Ryan moving in was initiated more on Vicki's side than theirs. She really does not like being alone. We have seen so far this season one of her employees staying there and also Michael. 

I don't think there is much doubt about this. Vicks said that she wanted them there and that Brianna told her she would only move in if Brooks was banned from the pad. Brianna didn't move in and then start making demands. As the matter of fact, last year she told Vicks that she and Ryan would move out if she had changed her mind and wanted Brooks to start coming around. Vicks was quick to say that she didn't want that. It seemed more important to her to have Brianna and Ryan there, and still be able to play the victim about how unfair it all was. 

 

Brianna is a difficult nut for me to crack. I never warmed to her, even back in the very beginning. While I thought she had far more common sense than Vicki did, and that she often appeared to be the grown-up in their relationship, she always came across as a miserable human being. Same with Micheal. I remember a scene very early on where they were all going on vacation (I think it was the "family van" episode). These kids were being treated to a vacation that I could have only dreamed about at their age, yet they acted like they were going somewhere to be set on fire. They were so incredibly ungrateful and dubious about the entire trip. I was shocked, but over time came to realize that neither one of her children have ever really enjoyed spending time with her. Vacation probably meant being in more confined spaces with this loon, and I would have probably reacted the same way they both did. I have never seen any real affection from either kid towards Vicks. Brianna often says nice things in her TH shots (she has said before that Vicks is a great mother), but there is no genuine warmth there that I have ever seen. The clincher is that when Micheal finally moved out on his own, he wouldn't give Vicks his address. That pretty much says it all to me. She is apparently so intrusive that her own child doesn't want her to know where he lives. If I was Vicki, this would concern me far more than anything else. 

[Grneyedldy]

I think Vicki WANTED them to move in … we know that she HATES to be alone in that big house.  Their deal was that they would move in but Brooks couldn't be at the house. When Briana said that Brooks told Ryan he should hit her … well, I can't blame Briana for that. And at the reunion, Brooks never denied he said that.

If you have never heard the tape, I encourage you to do so. Not just the transcript, but the actual audio. Brooks was drunk and not being serious about hitting anyone. That was just the best Ryan and Brianna could come up with while secretly taping and baiting Brooks.

I don't have a link, but I'm sure you could google it.

[lunastartron]

From my perspective, Brianna is a spoiled asshole who relishes carrying a chip on her shoulder and having slights about which she can cultivate bitterness. Her behavior is like that of an addict in certain respects to me eg her discontent is always someone else's fault and she seems to display no understanding of the concept that happiness is attributable to her own choices, or even that she has choices. Case in point would be the grousing over the missed overseas professional opportunities; I very clearly remember her passionately asserting that she wanted to go to war. Her mother objected, but the next season Brianna explained the evaporation of that discussion was the result of her realization that the experience was "not what she thought it was going to be." It was if she had a very romanticized notion about her expectations and was angry that it didn't conform to those (ill-informed) preconceptions. Vicki does indeed appear to be a textbook case of narcissistic personality disorder, but I've never seen any evidence over nine seasons that, just because she's capable of rage at the likes of Gretchen, she ever becomes verbally abusive toward her children. Brianna is, what, like, 26? If she finds her mother smothering, she can disengage. The perennial theme I've seen with Bri is that she's not bright enough to be self-analytical, but constantly reacts superficially in her relationships. As for the matter of her affluence, I think the primary point is that money affords freedom; she got an education, aide, etc. Some people are tethered to toxic relationships because they don't have that advantage; any co-dependency Brianna has with Vicki is one she decides to allow. And what will exemplify her entitlement for me is her behavior on the season 8 reunion, when she didn't want to engage in the deconstruction of Ryan's truly heinous comportment unless she could control the narrative. She's still peddling the bullshit idea that Brooks is physically abusive, something that is way less substantiated by documented footage than her own husband cocking a fist and pulling his arm back in the direction of a diminutive middle-aged woman and Brianna's uncle.