S12.E09: The Citation Negation

[ProfCrash]

27 minutes ago, shura said:

Nobody would give up just because someone called their theory wrong.  I took it that the paper had all the math to show that the asymmetry theory is incorrect, and Sheldon saw the math and agreed.  Math is universal, you can often follow the math in a foreign language paper even if you don't understand the text.  Maybe Sheldon saw a formula or a calculation there that he knew proved him and Amy wrong.

Sheldon didn't look at the paper long enough to know if the math was similar or correct. It would have made more sense for Amy and Sheldon to take the paper and spent some time examining it to figure out if the 40 year old paper really refuted their paper.

[Katy M]

i'm all for doing favors for friends.  But, if the only reason they want me to do something is because it is beneath them to do it and they don't want to take the time, then no. If they wanted my help alongside them, sure.  If they didn't have time due to some actual reason, sure.  Just don't want to be bothered, no.

It was so funny when Sheldon told Leonard that he was having an affair.

I agree that they should have investigated the math.  All that *we* know that it said was that it didn't bear further investigation.  If Sheldon already did further investigating and proved it true, then why would they believe that one statement?

"look at my skin.  I haven't been outside in 6 years."  Um, she's got darker skin tone than Bernadette.  Which doesn't mean she's been outside, but it does make it a stupid way to state it.

As for Howard knowing Russian, he also knew ASL in that other epi when they introduced Raj to his Deaf girlfriend.  Maybe he's a language expert or aficionado.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

As for Howard knowing Russian, he also knew ASL in that other epi when they introduced Raj to his Deaf girlfriend.  Maybe he's a language expert or aficionado.

 

At least when I worked in academia, PhD candidates were required to do a language test to earn their degree.  The test was to translate an article, so it didn't require the test take to be fluent but to know enough of a language to figure it out with the help of a dictionary.  I can see how Russian might have been Howard's language for this.  However, ASL wasn't one of the qualifying languages, so that had to come from somewhere else (I actually don't remember the episode where Howard knew ASL...did they explain how he knew that?)

[MissLucas]

Geez, I'm just a measly historian trained in the tradition of the mighty German footnote - so everything about academic proceedings in this episode had me thoroughly confused because it made absolutely no sense.

Sheldon goes into full tantrum mode before even checking the paper - that he should have found before because what scientists does not properly research the topic he intends to work on beforehand? Right, only one with such a big ego that the thought someone else might have had something worthwhile to contribute is completely out his perception radar. And nobody brings up that Amy had to drop her own research project for this paper?

At the end of the episode I wanted to sic Denise on both Amy and Sheldon. Stop being such wussies, you haven't spent years of your life in abject poverty, risking your health like others have for groundbreaking research. You spent a couple om months pleasantly supported by an academic network (that you were not actually using) and appropriate funding. Get your act together and get back to work. Seriously.

Seeing Bernadette intimidated by Denise's sudden turn from gentle geek to Drill Sergeant was the only good thing about this episode.

PS to the writers: asthma is not as funny as you think.

Edited November 17, 2018 by MissLucas

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

However, ASL wasn't one of the qualifying languages, so that had to come from somewhere else (I actually don't remember the episode where Howard knew ASL...did they explain how he knew that?)

I don't think they did explain it.  He just knew it.  It was in the first couple of seasons when Raj still couldn't talk to women, if that helps.

[babyhouseman]

I remember an episode where Bernadette was playing video games with the guys, and she kept going "pew" "pew" like she was shooting, and that annoyed Sheldon. That was one of my favorite Bernadette moments. 

I remember the sign language show, and I don't think it was explained how Howard knew it, just that he did. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sheldon didn't look at the paper long enough to know if the math was similar or correct. It would have made more sense for Amy and Sheldon to take the paper and spent some time examining it to figure out if the 40 year old paper really refuted their paper.

I guess in the part of TVland that is TBBT, Sheldon visually scanning the paper for at least 1.3 seconds is the equivalent of working out all the language-neutral equations and grasping their significance.

 

 

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

"look at my skin.  I haven't been outside in 6 years."  Um, she's got darker skin tone than Bernadette.  Which doesn't mean she's been outside, but it does make it a stupid way to state it.

This ill-fitting line made me do a double take. 

[CherryAmes]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:26 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Has Howard's knowledge of Russian ever been brought up before? I assume he knows basic phrases from his time aboard the ISS, but enough to translate (even cursorily) a scholarly article?

Coincidentally tonight Comedy Channel is airing the first episode of BBT and Howard tells Penny he speaks 6 languages and Sheldon mentions that 3 of those languages are "Russian, Arabic and Farsi".  It's not surprising to me that someone who is as intelligent as Howard would have learned some languages probably more just because he wanted to then any other reason.

ETA: and the second episode has Howard compliment Penny in what he claims was "flawless Russian".

Edited November 17, 2018 by CherryAmes

[UncleChuck]

Howard is the quintessential "geek", and because he is "just an engineer" and doesn't have his doctorate, Sheldon usually acts as if poor Howie is just a notch above the custodial staff in the University hierarchy.  While Sheldon makes a lot of noise about his fantastic research, he hasn't really achieved any notoriety for his work, yet "poor little Howard--just an engineer" has successfully invented working parts of the Mars Rover, and is a real Astronaut who has been to the International Space Station.  Sheldon may not think that is impressive--but it really is!!!

Sheldon remains the Most Important Professor EVER--in his own mind at least, but a successful inventor/engineer/astronaut who speaks about seven languages--that's a guy who has one HELL of a resume.  (Although in academic circles they call it a "Curriculum Vitae". 

[jewel21]

Doesn't Howard also speak Mandarin? I remember him trying to teach Sheldon so he would order tangerine chicken or something. 

[theatremouse]

On 11/15/2018 at 8:50 PM, chocolatine said:

This is ridiculous. Who cites papers they didn't read in a work that's supposed to be their crack at a Nobel Prize?

My memory of that scene was Raj describing the Russian paper as something cited in something else Amy and Sheldon cited. I don't think they cited something they didn't read in a language they don't speak. They just cited someone who cited it.

[chocolatine]

31 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

My memory of that scene was Raj describing the Russian paper as something cited in something else Amy and Sheldon cited. I don't think they cited something they didn't read in a language they don't speak. They just cited someone who cited it.

But Raj, who doesn't even work on super-asymmetry and doesn't speak Russian, understood what the Russian paper was about just by skimming the paper that cited it. Shamy really dropped the ball here.

3 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

ETA: and the second episode has Howard compliment Penny in what he claims was "flawless Russian".

ETA: I just rewatched that clip, and his Russian is far from flawless. He says to Penny ты очень красивая девушка, which means "you are a very beautiful girl", but he pronounces девушка incorrectly. There are a ton of creepy guys who learn a few pick-up lines in a bunch of languages; that doesn't mean they have full mastery of the languages.

Edited November 17, 2018 by chocolatine

[Mystery]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:11 PM, PaulaO said:

I’ve been a professional librarian for over 30 years.  I find it hard to believe that Cal Texh doesn’t license every database in the world.  No need to manually verify citations—scientific databases go back to the 1900s.  And I hope Amy and Sheldon have actually read the papers they are citing....

Yes, that was very odd. Surely they'd note the cites in their original work. 

 

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

i'm all for doing favors for friends.  But, if the only reason they want me to do something is because it is beneath them to do it and they don't want to take the time, then no. If they wanted my help alongside them, sure.  If they didn't have time due to some actual reason, sure.  Just don't want to be bothered, no.

 

That was just terrible. And so I hope the Russian paper was actually right. That's a lot of work to push off on a "friend." 

 

19 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

My memory of that scene was Raj describing the Russian paper as something cited in something else Amy and Sheldon cited. I don't think they cited something they didn't read in a language they don't speak. They just cited someone who cited it.

Yes, and that was even more strange: like checking the cites wasn't enough work, and so Raj actually read the paper they were citing to see what IT cited? And Sheldon and Amy should definitely have caught that, when they read that paper whose cite Raj was checking. 

I was glad to see Stuart's girlfriend be as mean to Bernadette as Bernadette always is to other people. 

[HazelEyes4325]

9 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

But Raj, who doesn't even work on super-asymmetry and doesn't speak Russian, understood what the Russian paper was about just by skimming the paper that cited it. Shamy really dropped the ball here.

That's not how I saw the scene.  Leonard asked why Raj had a Russian article out and he said that it was because it was cited in an article that Shamy cited.  He then tried to figure out what it was about by using Google translate, which said something about a moose.  At that point, they took it to Howard, who translated it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jewel21 said:

Doesn't Howard also speak Mandarin? I remember him trying to teach Sheldon so he would order tangerine chicken or something. 

Yes. Sheldon thought they were passing off another citrus for tangerine. Howard also speaks it last season when their food order is missed up. 

 

Howard knowing multiple languages as been consistent all the way back to the pilot. One of my favorite Howard moments was him telling Sheldon no in every language. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Guest

[chocolatine]

35 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

That's not how I saw the scene.  Leonard asked why Raj had a Russian article out and he said that it was because it was cited in an article that Shamy cited.  He then tried to figure out what it was about by using Google translate, which said something about a moose.  At that point, they took it to Howard, who translated it.

Something about that citation caught Raj's eye enough that he bothered to find the Russian paper. He didn't need it for Shamy's bibliography.

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, chocolatine said:

Something about that citation caught Raj's eye enough that he bothered to find the Russian paper. He didn't need it for Shamy's bibliography.

I don't think it would be unreasonable if a paper cited another paper to go looking for it, especially since we don't know the context in which Shamy's paper cited the first paper.  If that paper had cited the Russian paper in a very substantial way, I can easily see Raj pulling it before realizing it was in Russian.

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I don't think it would be unreasonable if a paper cited another paper to go looking for it

That is exactly my point; Sheldon and Amy should have gone looking for it while they were doing their research, and had it translated professionally.

Edited November 17, 2018 by chocolatine

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That is exactly my point; Sheldon and Amy should have gone looking for it while they were doing their research, and had it translated professionally.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing at all on that!  Amy and Sheldon should have also done their own citations, but that didn't happen...

[chocolatine]

9 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Oh, I'm not disagreeing at all on that!  Amy and Sheldon should have also done their own citations, but that didn't happen...

It just ruins the characterization that had been built up over many years of both Sheldon and Amy being not just intelligent but also fastidious. Sheldon would have learned decades ago that not properly researching related work before publishing a paper is a surefire way to lose credibility.

[Edmond83]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

It just ruins the characterization that had been built up over many years of both Sheldon and Amy being not just intelligent but also fastidious. Sheldon would have learned decades ago that not properly researching related work before publishing a paper is a surefire way to lose credibility.

Actually Sheldon not checking beforehand is actually believable considering his past errors. Though you would have thought that he would have learned by now to thoroughly check his work.

What I actually find hard to believe is that Amy didn't, she has always struck me as the type to check.

Overall if the Shamy project is dead and Amy didn't get back on that other project she lost earlier in the season (iirc we didn't get a crystal clear resolution on that) god she has had a bad season career wise and I feel for her.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Edmond83 said:

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That is exactly my point; Sheldon and Amy should have gone looking for it while they were doing their research, and had it translated professionally.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing at all on that! Amy and Sheldon should have also done their own citations, but that didn't happen...

It just ruins the characterization that had been built up over many years of both Sheldon and Amy being not just intelligent but also fastidious. Sheldon would have learned decades ago that not properly researching related work before publishing a paper is a surefire way to lose credibility.

Actually Sheldon not checking beforehand is actually believable considering his past errors. Though you would have thought that he would have learned by now to thoroughly check his work.

What I actually find hard to believe is that Amy didn't, she has always struck me as the type to check

^all of which potentially points to Sheldon and/or Amy realizing that they don't work as well together as either of them does individually—with this realization perhaps extending to their entire relationship/marriage.
And yet:

On November 16, 2018 at 3:17 AM, shapeshifter said:

On November 16, 2018 at 12:56 AM, Edmond83 said:

Disappointed that it looks like the Shamy project is dead especially as it played such a major role at their wedding

IRL science, disproving a theory is often just a step towards a new theory. Maybe Shamy will discover a new kernel of truth in the flotsam of the wreckage of their Asymmetry project.

14 HOURS AGO, JOANNE3482 SAID:

I'm choosing to believe that they are momentarily in a funk and will snap out of it and go back to their work once they're over their initial shock. 

—all of which could happen in a few episodes.

Even if the writers are unaware of fans meticulously citing each other as I have done here, they quite likely have a good idea of the nature of such discussions by fans, and might have concocted this plot for that reason—and our enjoyment.

Edited November 17, 2018 by shapeshifter

[nora1992]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:11 PM, PaulaO said:

I’ve been a professional librarian for over 30 years.  I find it hard to believe that Cal Texh doesn’t license every database in the world.  No need to manually verify citations—scientific databases go back to the 1900s.  And I hope Amy and Sheldon have actually read the papers they are citing....

I too am a librarian (20 years).

What I didn’t like about the basement scene was the darkness. On the campuses where I’ve studied, they are the best-lit buildings, partly because administration doesn’t want students sleeping in the stacks.

[HazelEyes4325]

51 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

I too am a librarian (20 years).

What I didn’t like about the basement scene was the darkness. On the campuses where I’ve studied, they are the best-lit buildings, partly because administration doesn’t want students sleeping in the stacks.

1

When I was in college, I worked at the library and we were more worried about students doing, ahem, other things in the stacks (and yes it happened...more often than one might think!).  

The darkness didn't actually bother me in this scene.  Again, back at the university library, we had several storage rooms for old (older than say, 20 years) journals, foreign language journals more than a few years old, and Playboys (yep, the college had a subscription...it was paid for by an anonymous donor).  The general public was not allowed down in that area, but they could request items from it and someone from my desk (I worked in periodicals) would go down and retrieve it.  So, my issue with all that wasn't the darkness, but that Leonard and Raj were even there at all.  I get that not all libraries operate the same way and things have most likely changed in the I'm not going to mention how many years, but based on my personal experience, that didn't seem right.

[Yeah No]

30 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

When I was in college, I worked at the library and we were more worried about students doing, ahem, other things in the stacks (and yes it happened...more often than one might think!).  

The darkness didn't actually bother me in this scene.  Again, back at the university library, we had several storage rooms for old (older than say, 20 years) journals, foreign language journals more than a few years old, and Playboys (yep, the college had a subscription...it was paid for by an anonymous donor).  The general public was not allowed down in that area, but they could request items from it and someone from my desk (I worked in periodicals) would go down and retrieve it.  So, my issue with all that wasn't the darkness, but that Leonard and Raj were even there at all.  I get that not all libraries operate the same way and things have most likely changed in the I'm not going to mention how many years, but based on my personal experience, that didn't seem right.

I worked at the university library when I was in grad. school (although that was almost 30 years ago now), and it had a similar basement section that looked remarkably like the one in this episode that contained outdated journals and older books.  Since the book Leonard and Howard found was 40 years old, it's making me think that's not an uncommon room to have.  And yes, it was cramped, spooky and in some places not as well lit as the upstairs stacks.  Since I know that about 10 years ago the university built a brand new state of the art library, that room no longer exists, but there is another older annex that still has some rooms like that.  I used to swear at night that it was haunted.

[LoneHaranguer]

16 hours ago, Dani said:

Yes. Sheldon thought they were passing off another citrus for tangerine. Howard also speaks it last season when their food order is missed up. 

OTOH, back in The Dumpling Paradox, the waiter says about Howard "where's your annoying little friend who thinks he speaks Mandarin", which calls into question his fluency in other languages. I seem to recall his having some trouble with sign language, missing things Emily signed and shortcutting what Raj wanted to tell her.

[aemom]

On 2018-11-15 at 9:35 PM, ams1001 said:

According to the character bio on Wikipedia: "Besides English, Howard can speak seven languages including French, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic, Persian, Japanese, American sign language and the constructed language Klingon from the Star Trek franchise. He also knows some words in Sindarin, one of the elvish dialects invented by J.R.R. Tolkien for The Lord of the Rings. Although in the show, Howard has been mentioned as speaking these languages, the writers have not explored his proficiency much."

I don't have a hard time believing that Howard speaks Russian.  I do have a hard time believing that he can read the Cyrillic alphabet. Most people who learn to speak another language only learn how to speak it because learning a whole new alphabet to able to read it is another skill altogether. 

[shapeshifter]

30 minutes ago, AEMom said:

I don't have a hard time believing that Howard speaks Russian.  I do have a hard time believing that he can read the Cyrillic alphabet. Most people who learn to speak another language only learn how to speak it because learning a whole new alphabet to able to read it is another skill altogether. 

True, but doesn't he know the Klingon alphabet?—which means he has an interest in learning different alphabets.

Most Chinese students I've known at the American college where I'm employed can read English better than they understand it being spoken—but that might just be because they learned British English. For instance, a Chinese student didn't know the English word "closet," which made sense to me when I learned that homes in Britain don't generally have closets.

Anyway, I'm guessing the numerical equations in the paper would be the most important part. Wasn't there some episode a few seasons back in which it was revealed that Howard actually did comprehend that stuff (much to Sheldon's amazement/chagrin)?

[wendyg]

My impression from the first season episode where Howard lists the languages he speaks is that he only knew enough to say a few sleazy pickup lines in each one. Whereas Sheldon spent some time one early episode reading through a dictionary to learn a language he didn't know - Finnish, maybe?

[MissLucas]

I think we have to accept that Howard's language skills are as fluid as Sheldon's social skills. IIRC he spent considerable time in company of a Russian on the ISS without ever speaking a word of Russian. Maybe that would have helped with the Astro/Cosmo-bullying?

[BlossomCulp]

Another librarian chiming in and I have to say the only thing I found implausible was Raj digging deeper for that citation.  When I do literature searches for researchers it's already a time consuming task (depending on what they want) and if I went down every rabbit hole and looked up all the citations connected to articles I am selecting it would be a neverending task!  Article one has citations (sometimes many many citations), I check the citations -- look at those articles, check their citations (again sometimes many many citations)--look at these articles, check their citations -- lather rinse repeat....oh my good god NO!!  I will check if one looks really relevant, and in fairness that may be what happened with Raj but since he couldn't understand the language I think it unlikely :shrug: it's a sitcom and certainly not the first time they've had work related stuff make no sense.  At least they didn't have a stereotypical librarian in a bun, cardigan and sensible shoes shushing them!

Edited November 18, 2018 by BlossomCulp

[MissLucas]

22 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

Another librarian chiming in and I have to say the only thing I found implausible was Raj digging deeper for that citation.  

Well, maybe the initial citation mentioned that everybody working on that particular topic should have a look at this obscure paper? Something Shamy should have noticed had they done their research properly *broken record alert*

[HazelEyes4325]

3 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Well, maybe the initial citation mentioned that everybody working on that particular topic should have a look at this obscure paper? Something Shamy should have noticed had they done their research properly *broken record alert*

I actually could see Raj digging out that Russian article IF the article that had cited it had:

1- Been cited extensively by Shamy

-and-

2 - Extensively cited the Russian article in question

A simple tweaking of Raj's line could have made that whole scenario more believable.

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, BlossomCulp said:

Another librarian chiming in and I have to say the only thing I found implausible was Raj digging deeper for that citation.  When I do literature searches for researchers it's already a time consuming task (depending on what they want) and if I went down every rabbit hole and looked up all the citations connected to articles I am selecting it would be a neverending task!  Article one has citations (sometimes many many citations), I check the citations -- look at those articles, check their citations (again sometimes many many citations)--look at these articles, check their citations -- lather rinse repeat....oh my good god NO!!  I will check if one looks really relevant, and in fairness that may be what happened with Raj but since he couldn't understand the language I think it unlikely :shrug: it's a sitcom and certainly not the first time they've had work related stuff make no sense.  At least they didn't have a stereotypical librarian in a bun, cardigan and sensible shoes shushing them!

 

If you're hoping to get a Nobel Prize in Physics, I think you need to follow all the leads. But what do I know; I never wanted a Nobel in Physics, so maybe I'm just over-estimating the rigors.

Edited November 18, 2018 by possibilities

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I actually could see Raj digging out that Russian article IF the article that had cited it had:

1- Been cited extensively by Shamy

-and-

2 - Extensively cited the Russian article in question

A simple tweaking of Raj's line could have made that whole scenario more believable.

My personal fanwank is

3 - Many of the articles Shamy had cited also cited the Russian article.

And I'm so glad we can easily refer to it as "the Russian article."

[BlossomCulp]

18 minutes ago, possibilities said:

If you're hoping to get a Nobel Prize in Physics, I think you need to follow all the leads. But what do I know; I never wanted a Nobel in Physics, so maybe I'm just over-estimating the rigors.

I don't do lit searches for university scientists so I can totally see there would be a different approach especially if you're getting grad students to do your grunt work and not the librarians at the university!

[Crs97]

19 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

Yes, exactly. What a lot of people think of as "science" is just interesting facts and pre-fab science fair experiments. Which is great to get kids interested, but what happens is the second a lot of people encounter actual science, they become disillusioned pretty much immediately. Actual science is messy, tedious, occasionally nasty, and just damn difficult.

This reminded me of when my sister was the head technician in a teaching hospital’s cancer lab.  She was butting heads with a young hire who blew off my sister’s comments with “You’re just mad because your recent experiment didn’t succeed.”  My sister’s exacerbated reply was along the lines of “We are trying to cure cancer here.  Of course the experiment didn’t succeed.  Almost none of them do, because if they did, we would have cured cancer by now!”  

[ForReal]

I did not like Bernadette at all in this episode; I think it was the meanest she's ever been. I was glad she couldn't master the game right away and hope she never does. When she messed with Leonard at the end it really ticked me off.

[Chit Chat]

22 hours ago, ForReal said:

I did not like Bernadette at all in this episode; I think it was the meanest she's ever been. I was glad she couldn't master the game right away and hope she never does. When she messed with Leonard at the end it really ticked me off.

Seems like they've made Bernadette meaner as the seasons go by.  We know that she hates to lose, but damn, she doesn't have to be a raging bitch about it.  Sheesh!   It used to be kind of funny when her peers were afraid of her, but not so much anymore.   

[shapeshifter]

I thought the main point of Bernadette's plot in this episode was that no amount of competitiveness or trash talking was going to get her a win, and that we were supposed to be glad about/amused by that. Sheldon failed too, in spite of/because of his bullying Leonard into checking his citations—although Leonard inexplicably didn't seem to mind.
So both of the bullies got their comeuppances.

[ForReal]

On 11/19/2018 at 6:47 PM, shapeshifter said:

So both of the bullies got their comeuppances.

Didn't Bernadette win when she was playing Penny at the end, and that's why she knocked Leonard's food out of his hands?

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, ForReal said:

Didn't Bernadette win when she was playing Penny at the end, and that's why she knocked Leonard's food out of his hands?

Did she? I thought it was more of a tantrum move because she didn't win, but I could be wrong.

[BlossomCulp]

I think she won and rejoiced in her victory while Penny could not have cared less.  Which does lead to the idea of how sweet is your victory if your opponent doesn't care?  I'd like to see some growth for Bernadette in this final season and have her finally realize that she doesn't need to win every encounter.

[SmithW6079]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did she? I thought it was more of a tantrum move because she didn't win, but I could be wrong.

Either way, it was a dick move. Bernadette's hardly one to talk about how childish Howard is.

[Trey]

I rewatched the wedding episode last night and, in the scene where they are all excited about Super Asymmetry, I noticed that Leonard has just done an online check to see if anyone else had done work on Super Asymmetry and he came up with no references.  So, the Russian paper must have been very obscure or Leonard didn't search very well.  Sheldon and Amy took Leonard's word that they were working on something new.

At least the writers did think of that.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Trey

[Omeletsmom]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:37 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

At least when I worked in academia, PhD candidates were required to do a language test to earn their degree.  The test was to translate an article, so it didn't require the test take to be fluent but to know enough of a language to figure it out with the help of a dictionary.  I can see how Russian might have been Howard's language for this.  However, ASL wasn't one of the qualifying languages, so that had to come from somewhere else (I actually don't remember the episode where Howard knew ASL...did they explain how he knew that?)

I don't think that is a universal requirement.  My husband has an PhD in Aeronautical Engineering and taught/mentored graduate students for 5+ years and there were no language requirements whatsoever.  I think Howard is just has a talent for and interest in learning languages.

ETA this episode drove him NUTS because that is NOT how papers like that are written.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Omeletsmom

[hnygrl]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:48 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

I came here to ask about what you touched on hoping someone on the boards was in or near the field.  As a person who isn't involved in academia or science what I didn't get about the plot was why does that one paper mean their theory is dead.  Especially since it's a 40 year old document.  I mean if they found a 100 year old document saying atoms or germs or similar don't exist and can't be proven to exist they'd laugh at it today.   It seems like they were on track and proving what they theorized so why wouldn't they keep going then add the citation or add a paragraph to their paper like:  "In 1978 Dr so&so from Russia stated XYZ about assymetria however new research has shown this to be incorrect because of our findings of ABC"

Maybe a future plot will have one or both of them having that brainstorm and realizing the Russian was wrong or they can disprove his previous findings.

That's EXACTLY what I thought too! And I'm in academia!!! I thought a book, found in the backety back of the library, so old it hasn't even been scanned yet, is enough to make them give up? ON WHAT PLANET would that have been enough to make ANY scientist worth his/her salt give up???? They should've seen that as "oh. huh. interesting. let's get Dr. Soandso from RUSSIA to translate this then let's see if we can disprove that." And kept going. I agree with you 100% and it bothers me no end that a 40-something-year-old Russian paper, translated by someone who isn't native a Russian Speaker (why didn't they get a native speaker to translate? Just to double check?) isn't enough to cancel months worth of very promising work.

At this point, I've come to the realization that like HIMYM? I'm hate-watching the death of a once-great-show.

I hated that nobody, not one soul, thought to A. double check the translation or B. Encourage them to KEEP FREAKING GOING! FORTY YEARS AGO shouldn't freaking matter TODAY!!! Twenty-first-century science should've accounted for something in the end!

[ProfCrash]

5 hours ago, Omeletsmom said:

I don't think that is a universal requirement.  My husband has an PhD in Aeronautical Engineering and taught/mentored graduate students for 5+ years and there were no language requirements whatsoever.  I think Howard is just has a talent for and interest in learning languages.

ETA this episode drove him NUTS because that is NOT how papers like that are written.

It is not. My Doctorate is in Political Science and the only people who had to be fluent in a language were the people who were writing Comparative Politics dissertations. Most of the students in my program were fluent in Game Theory or Econometrics. There were probably more people taking Stats classes in the Econ department then there were studying languages. 

[Driad]

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

let's get Dr. Soandso from RUSSIA to translate this then let's see if we can disprove that

This would have been an opportunity to bring back the Russian physicist/janitor from the science bowl episode.  At least to see smoke coming out of Sheldon's ears.

[jumper sage]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:16 PM, Katy M said:

i'm all for doing favors for friends.  But, if the only reason they want me to do something is because it is beneath them to do it and they don't want to take the time, then no. If they wanted my help alongside them, sure.  If they didn't have time due to some actual reason, sure.  Just don't want to be bothered, no.

It was so funny when Sheldon told Leonard that he was having an affair.

I agree that they should have investigated the math.  All that *we* know that it said was that it didn't bear further investigation.  If Sheldon already did further investigating and proved it true, then why would they believe that one statement?

"look at my skin.  I haven't been outside in 6 years."  Um, she's got darker skin tone than Bernadette.  Which doesn't mean she's been outside, but it does make it a stupid way to state it.

As for Howard knowing Russian, he also knew ASL in that other epi when they introduced Raj to his Deaf girlfriend.  Maybe he's a language expert or aficionado.

From Wikipedia:

Besides English, Howard can speak seven languages including French, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic, Persian, Japanese, American sign language and the constructed language Klingon from the Star Trek franchise. He also knows some words in Sindarin, one of the elvish dialects invented by J.R.R.

On 11/16/2018 at 9:21 PM, CherryAmes said:

Coincidentally tonight Comedy Channel is airing the first episode of BBT and Howard tells Penny he speaks 6 languages and Sheldon mentions that 3 of those languages are "Russian, Arabic and Farsi".  It's not surprising to me that someone who is as intelligent as Howard would have learned some languages probably more just because he wanted to then any other reason.

Then Howard jumped in and said 7 if you count Klingon and Penny said it didn't count.

2 hours ago, Driad said:

This would have been an opportunity to bring back the Russian physicist/janitor from the science bowl episode.  At least to see smoke coming out of Sheldon's ears.

OMG!  This would have been genius.  I'll even go you one further and the physicist from the paper IS the janitor.

3 hours ago, hnygrl said:

I hated that nobody, not one soul, thought to A. double check the translation or B. Encourage them to KEEP FREAKING GOING! FORTY YEARS AGO shouldn't freaking matter TODAY!!! Twenty-first-century science should've accounted for something in the end!

I agree with this.  They did not have the technology they have now and the original paper could have had flaws.

If I may bring up Kripke - when he laughed at Sheldon and his believing the can opener in The Electric Can Opener Fluctuation, Sheldon said that Einstein also had to retract his conformation of his hypothesis and then Kripke said that yes but it was later proven true.  Just that alone should have had them doing more research.

Edited November 27, 2018 by jumper sage